Bottlehead Forum
Other Gear => Digital => Topic started by: Jim R. on March 01, 2012, 07:46:06 AM
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Ok Folks, here we go... my attempt at a series of posts on how to choose and configure a
Mac Mini for use as a music server.
First, a bit about my basic philosophy as it regards music, audio, and just about everything
else: I like to keep things as simple as possible but not overly simple, and I have fairly
high standards as far as playback quality is conncerned, so take this for what it's worth --
yours may be higher, lower, or just plain different, which is fine and to be expected, so
not necessarily all of the things I suggest are going to work universally and I simply
cannot guarantee that you will hear the same things or perceive the same amount of change
that I do or did when I made these choices. I also don't have any hands-on experience
beyond the mid 2010 mac mini, but I have two of those (1 mostly stock and the other taken
pretty close to the extreme). On the other hand I will pass along the anecdotal experiences
of others I know and whose ears I trust when it comes to some alternative considerations of
methods, devices, platforms, etc. This field is changing very rapidly in some ways and in
others, not as quickly, so there is always bound to be new information, software and
discoveries around the corner. The one great thing about using a computer is that often
changes can be made incrementally and often with software, so you should be able to stay on
or close to the leading edge as you wish.
Ok, so why the Mac Mini, and specifically why the mid 2010 and 2011 unibody aluminum Mac
Minis and not MacBook/MacBook Pros, iMacs, MacBook Airs, etc. (or windows based computers
for that matter)? In short, I don't know, and I'm not sure anybody else really does either,
but it has something to do with power consumption, perhaps the RFI shielding of the body,
the layout of the motherboard, the parts chosen, the power supply, the operating system,
etc. but most likely some sort of confluence of all these things and more. What has become
apparent with all of this is that the more you turn off in terms of hardware, reduce in
terms of processing, and simplify, the better it sounds. In general I'm also speaking about
running the mini as a dedicated music server and generally headless (no keyboard, mouse, or
display). Notebooks tend to have a lot of stuff crammed into an even smaller space, have
high voltage dc-to-dc converters on board to supply the voltage needed for displays, and are
generally built for ultimate compactness, not lowest noise. Likewise with desktops and
iMacs, etc. -- there's no way to really get too far from the display noise and power
supplies, etc. Of course a lot of this is really just logical speculation, but the results
keep coming back that the Minis just work best for audio, and that's the best answer I can
give to all of this.
So then, why the mid 2010 and 2011 Minis? The earlier Minis had external power brick power
supplies, which those of used to power supplies in audio things, generally think of as
better -- having the supply away from the active circuitry. I again have to say that nobody
is really sure why the newer minis with the onboard switching power supplies are quieter and
better audio performers than the externally powered ones, but any number of friends who have
made the change to the newer models from the older ones say this is undeniably true -- I
don't know this from personal experience. As for me, I'm all for it -- less boxes, less
clutter, fewer cables, etc. all works for me, and if it sounds better, all the better. Of
course it could all be that it's a matter of better board design, better internal
components, lower overall power consumption, the aluminum unibody, etc. -- again, not going
to guess, just going to be blissfully ignorant and content with the better sound. BTW, if
your 2008 or 2009 mini sounds fine to you, then so be it -- I am not telling you to run out
and ditch it for a new one, but just about everybody I know who has done that has found
improvement, and often very significant.
Of course the mid-2010s are out of production, but you can still find them used -- even
sometimes from Apple in their refurbished products listings -- and these can be a great
deal. The 2011 is interesting in that even in stock form the people who have tried it after
stepping up from the 2010 find it's performance to be slightly better in terms of noise and
ultimate musicality (though some of these differences may diminish as you go further down
the upgrade path). So, perhaps the power supply is different or better, of course there is
no CD drive anymore, and Lion is the operating system (some people have been able to install
Snow Leopard on the 2011, but that is way beyond my current expertise and may only be worth
it in some circumstances.) The 2011 also has a much better TOSLink port with much lower
jitter specs than all other macs, currently or previously, so if you plan to use the mini to
feed an optically connected dac, this may be a good reason to choose the 2011. It is still
speced at 24/96 max, but at this time I believe that to be either a software limitation or a
hardware limitation on the motherboard, but not the transmitter chip. I have confirmed that
this new generation of TOSLink transmitter and receiver chips from Toshiba can indeed handle
24/192 -- this from Jason Stoddard at Schiit Audio. The trick is to get a source capable of
24/192, which are out there, but few and far between at this point. TOSLink has been an
evolving standard and if anybody remembers way back when it came out, it was good for 16bits
at 32 khz and intended mostly for dubbing CDs onto MiniDiscs and other low-end consumer
purposes.
The main disadvantage to Lion is that it does not support integer mode data transfer to a
dac -- it simply is not in the operating system to do so, and perhaps Apple feels that the
new 64-bit internal structure of Core audio make this unnecessary, but as I don't have any
real world experience with it, I can't comment one way or another. Some people have found
this to be a limitation, others have not, and I don't know if this breaks down easily along
lines of whether the dacs used are ones that can take advantage of integer mode or not.
Basically (and I'm speaking of PureMusic as the playback software here, as that is what I
use and know best) integer mode bypasses core audio support, disables dithered volume
control, EQ plug-ins, etc. and is the cleanest path from memory to dac and taking exclusive
control of the specific usb port (there are other ways to do this last bit too.) It does
provide for what I consider to be a significant leap in playback quality, even though I
don't use EQ and dithered volume control normally. Mathematically it's a much faster, less
processor intensive way to get the bits to your dac without the computer being able to
interfere.
Amarra supposedly bypasses core audio to begin with (as best I can tell from their published
literature), but they still maintin a double precision floating point internal data format,
which in turn leads to more processing overhead -- whether this makes any real perceivable
difference in playback quality, I can't say as I've not done the A/B tests (though I will do
so at some point, I'm sure.) Anyway, all of this is discussion on floating point vs integer
formats, core audio, etc. is all to the best of my current understanding and as has been
mostly confirmed by some of the people who write this software, but I make no cclaims as to
it's ultimate technical correctness -- I'm just not there in my deeper understanding of the
Mac and it's operating system. The proof is in the listening.
So, that's enough for now -- in summary, keep things simple as possible, choose the 2010
withSnow Leopard if you wish, the 2011 if you want to run optical to your dac, either should
do nicely, and get as much memory as possible (more on that in the next installment.)
Coming next: memory, hard drives (internal and external) playback software choices and basic
OS tweaks.
Hope this helps some folks,
Jim
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This is great Jim! Thanks for taking the time to write this up. I look forward to the upcoming installments. One thing I didn
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Thank you very much for the great write up. I am greatly looking forward to the next set of articles.
Andrew
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Excellent Jim! This is exactly what I need to set up my future mac mini system. I am anxiously awaiting your followup posts! Thanks for taking the time to do this.
Dave
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Nice work, Jim. I can confirm that the Mac Mini sounds better than the Macbook Pro with all else the same. And not by a small margin. It was a big step up to switch from a Late 2008 MBP to a Late 2009 MM using Decibel via USB.
I switched my MBP to Lion and found I preferred iTunes with Lion over Snow Leopard, by the way. I run SL on my MM, however.
Looking forward to your additional thoughts...
John
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Jim,
I can't wait for your next installment. I have been using a modified squeezebox and want to make the leap to a dedicated music PC, so this is great. Thanks again.
Brad
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Hello Jim,
Seems a rather large undertaking but appreciated very much. I too am looking forward to further installments. I've been reading TAS regarding player software and JRMC seems to garner a lot of praise. I'm not familiar with Pure Music but will take a look see. Thanks again!
John
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The main disadvantage to Lion is that it does not support integer mode data transfer to a dac -- it simply is not in the operating system to do so, and perhaps Apple feels that the new 64-bit internal structure of Core audio make this unnecessary, but as I don't have any real world experience with it, I can't comment one way or another. Some people have found this to be a limitation, others have not, and I don't know if this breaks down easily along lines of whether the dacs used are ones that can take advantage of integer mode or not.
I have read this claim on a few forums and I am not sure what they are talking about, except Lion does not provide integer support for USB devices as some claim. As stated before, I prefer FW or TOSLINK. If you go into the Audio Midi Set-up, then you see that Apple provides 16-bit, 20-bit, and 24-bit audio playback in integer mode, but I have not checked it with a USB device hooked-up--only FW and, yea you guessed it, TOSLINK. The 32-bit option is in floating point, and then there is "Encoded Digital Audio." That being said, I am not clear as to why integer mode is preferred over floating, except for the USB interface capabilities. Floating point is far more accurate, and with the processing power of todays IC's then it should be no biggie if it is used. A value of 12.6567 is more accurate than 13 or the truncated 12 value, and would offer a more accurate representation.
Being stuck inside as a result of this god-forsaken weather--wind, snow, and bitter cold has left me with little to do. Not to steal any thunder, but here is a page I built on how to optimize both the hardware and software for a Mac mini audio server--I finally got my notes together and took the screenshots. http://www.co-bw.com/Audio_OSX_Optimal_Audio.htm (http://www.co-bw.com/Audio_OSX_Optimal_Audio.htm)
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Wow, another valuable resource, I like this...John
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Yoder,
Yes, I don't know why some have claimed that integer mode is present in Lion when it is not. As for the rest, if you're just pulling 16 or 24 bit quantities of a hard drive, moving them to RAM and then clocking them out to the dac, untouched, then there is no need for the extra precision -- you're not doing any processing on them, and hence the advantage -- less processing overhead, less going on int he CPU, les power being consumed, less electrical noise on the buss and a very minimalist and deliberate path from storage to connection media. As I said, this bypasses all EQ, dithered volume, etc. and leads to the cleanest path with absolute minimal processing overhead -- and for what really counts, it just sounds better. Also, regardless of the connection medium -- USB, TOSLink, or firewire integger mode sounds cleaner -- it is not spedific to USB data transfers.
-- Jim
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Folks,
TThanks for all the positive feedback. I had planned on getting more up today but am coming down with the flu -- or at least I feel that way.
A coupple of things I should add -- the processor type and speed is of no real consequence here -- anything from the 1.x ghz intel core2 duo processors to the i3, i5 are all just fine, and it may even be somewhat of a sonic disadvantage to have too much -- though nobody has proven that yet to the best of my knowledge.
I personally would not buy upgraded memory from Apple -- it's super expensi ve as compared to vendors like OWC and Crucial However, if you want to get a larger mechanical hard drive (for when you replace it with the SSD) you can repurpose it by gettiing a portable 2.5 HD firewire/usb enclosure and putting the old internal drive in it and using it for the external drive for music file sttorage. I did this with my first mini -- I bought the mini with the 500 g drive, had an Intel 40gb SSD installed and then installed the 500g drive in an OWC portable enclosure with the Oxford 834 chipset. If the sizes of drives availabble from Apple are not enough, just take what they offer, and you can repurpose that too for a drive to backup your SSD onto and then just get another external mechanical drive for music file storage.
So, that's what I intended to add to yesterday's post but forgot, so in theory anyway, you should be ready to get a mini ordered if you wish -- the rest of the pieces will come from places other than apple -- but don't forget to get some sort of keyboard and maybe the correct display adaptor to hook up to one of your existing displays so you can do the configuration work.
As for some of the other questions -- yes, I will talk some about setting up headless operation, but in some sense that will depend on the playback software chosen -- but quickly there are two basic scenarios -- use a virtual remote keyboard/display program such as RealVNC, or on the other side, use the Apple iTTunes remote app on your iTouch, iPad, or iPhone -- but this only works with playback apps that dock with iTunes -- Amarra, PureMusic, and Audirvana (I believe.)
John Roman, looks like you're using a Windows laptop -- Pure Music is OSX only, and JRMC is Windows only, so unless you're planning on a mac sometime soon, you're not going to be able to use PM on a Windows machine.
And John "Inferno" -- thanks for your comments and verification of a couple key points.
Hopefully more tomorrow,
Jim
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I understand the pulling of 24-bit data from a hard drive, but let's pretend that we are looking at an analog wave form that represents a piece of audio. Let's also pretend that the point on the wave is 3.4567 mV. If we convert this to an integer value then we will not getting a true representation of the sound. Conversely, if we can represent this value in a 24 or 32-bit word then we are getting a more accurate representation. Regarding the cleaner sound of integer mode, I really cannot say since floating point is only at the 32-bit level for me and since Amarra plays in native mode and most of my audio is Redbook. Also, I haven't seen any 32-bit audio out there and so it is a moot point.
Yea, if you buy anything from Apple then you will take it in the shorts. With the new mini's there is no Superdrive, and in place of it you have the opportunity to install a second drive. I go into a lot more detail on this on the page I posted previously http://www.co-bw.com/Audio_OSX_Optimal_Audio.htm (http://www.co-bw.com/Audio_OSX_Optimal_Audio.htm) I have read a lot of claims how only an Apple external drive will work with the new Lion mini's. Not true. I have used several different USB drives with my Lion mini and have never had any issues. But, if you try to boot from an external CD/DVD drive then you will experience a kernel panic. There is a way to boot the new mini's into Snow Leopard mode via an external hard drive. I will build a tutorial on that one of these days. Once you have that in place, then it is very easy to repartition the SSD boot-drive and go with a dual boot configuration. Honestly, that is where I am at but I am too lazy to add another partition and burn an image of my SL onto it. Hah, you'd think someone was asking me to walk to the top of Pikes Peak (14,111 ft.)
Looking into the future and taking Moore's law into consideration, then the computing power of audio playback devices will, and are, be the least of our concerns. My current mini has an i7 processor, and I guess Apple is looking at putting quads in all of their mini's and not just the server version with the next release. When the OS is stripped down and I watch the Activity Monitor, then very little of the mini's cpu resources are being used when I listen to 24-bit audio. The world of DAC's also seem to be ahead audio codecs, especially when you consider companies like ESS http://www.esstech.com/index.php?p=products_DAC (http://www.esstech.com/index.php?p=products_DAC) with their 32-bit DAC's. It will be great when companies like Apple give each DAC channel a dedicated processor--it will probably happen someday. For now though, we just need the recording industry to get with it and start giving us hi-res audio.
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For financial reasons I was originally thinking about buying my future Mini in phases. Get the Mini, disable unnecessary features as recommended by the group and upgrade to the SSD drive at a later date. I was planning on buying the Mini with the RAM already upgraded. Then I got to looking around and realized how easy and cheap it was to do this myself. With the $260 I will be saving on the RAM upgrade ($300 - $40 = $260) I can buy an SSD drive right away. And I'd have a few bucks left over to buy some music. I found a TRIM supported OCZ Agility 3 AGT3-25SAT3-60G 2.5" 60GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) for $75 after rebate. Yeah, I know, I hate rebates too. Is this a decent SSD?
That would take care of most of my hardware needs but here comes the question. How do I get the OS imaged on to the SSD? I've done this many times before with Linux and Windows images. Since this is my first Mac based desktop I'm looking for a gentle nudge in the right direction. If this subject is discussed on other websites please provide a link(s) to get me started.
Thanks,
Tom
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Ok, so one more attempt at trying to explain the advantage of integer mode and then I think it's time to move on. The intent of this thread is as a how-to for folks who want a proven, reliable, superb sounding music server and for the most part, don't want to become computer tweakers and Mac tech gurus. I intend to stick with only the things that myself and others have found to matter most in terms of sonic impact, so topics like installingg Snow Leopard on a 2011 machine is not what we're after here -- perhaps another thread for that kind of stuff, though with only a handful of people -- for the most part, pretty Mac tech savvy folks -- this is not generally a well known quantity and thus I can't regard it as a stable, proven solution yet. My real advice for people who want to go to that level is to send their machines to the guys at Mach2 Music and let them do it and stand behind it for you.
Back to integer mode then...
I'm not sure why, if you're not doing any processing on the audio file that you need to introduce flooating point into the process. If you do want to do things like mixing, normalizing, EQ, convolution filtering, compression/expansion and dithered volume control, then yes, it makes sense to go back to a floating point format. What integer mode (as implemented by Pure Music, because that is the one I'm familiar with) is all about is keeping all the conversions and manipulations of floating point out of the playback chain. What the dac wants to see and what is stored in the uncompressed audio file (.wav or .aiff) is a linear quantized integer representation of the waveform in n bits (where n is typically 16, 20, 24, or 32 in high end audio). Integer mode bypasses core audio (which will first convert PCM data to floating point) so it can simply move these integer quantities from the storage medium into RAM, where, after the transmission protocol between the computer and dac has been established (asynchronous or adaptive/isosynchronous), and the port given exclusive use of the playback application, simply moves these integer values from memory to the dac -- again, taking the stored format, cacheing it to RAM and then clocking it out to the dac -- in the same format. The bottom line here is again, less processing overhead, less possibility for further quantization errors when going back and forth, and thus noticably better audio quality. This is true for usb, toslink and firewire -- the only natively supported communication protocols on the minis.
So once more, this thread is intended as a how-to, not for debating the merits of different playback software, advanced system configurations beyond those that have been proven to be robust and within the means of people who don't want to spend their time tweaking their computers and becoming Mac gurus, an who want to take advantage of the inherent excellent sound quality potential in the basic mac mini computer.
One note on digital audio sources -- just go to:
http://www.audiostream.com
Click on the music link and you will see some posts there on various places to get hi=-res as well as redbook downloads -- there is a ton of stuff out there and more coming all the time. And yes, there are some 32-bit 352.8 and 384 khz audio files out there, but few and far between -- though I don't know anybody who has a system capable of 192 dB dynamic range -- on the other hand, I don't know many systems that can handle the 144 dB dynamic range of 24 bit audio either, but that's a separate rant for another time and place, but suffice it to say, that beyond 18 bits or so, the only real quality improvements are coming from higher sampling rates, not bit depths... but again, beyond the scope of this thread.
-- Jim
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Tom,
Good move! I'm totally blind and did the entier memory upgrade from removal of bottom plate to replacing it, in under 2 minutes, so anybody can do it. There are guides on the Apple site on how to do it and it does not void your warranty either.
As for moving the OS image, I'd just suggest a complete new reinstall of the OS, and then you can customize it by leaving out all the unnecessary fonts, printer drivers, language translations and iLife and other apps that only take up space, increase boot time and can slow things down. But you can also use programs like carbon copy cloner do move the existing image if you like. Super duper also works well.
The OCZ drives are very well received though I know of nobody using that particular one -- the 60 gb is fine, but I think most folks use the vertex series as well as Crucial, Intel, and OWC Mercury Extreme. I have an intel 40 gb drive in my one mini and will be shoppping for something for the second.
Caution: installing the SSD can be really tricky and there are videos and documents online that show the process, and if you're up to it, I say go for it, but after opening my mini and taking a look around inside, I personally decided that this was not something I wanted to try (though upgrading the memory and HD on my macbook pro was a piece of cake. A number of folks I know have broken their internal wireless antenna off during the process, so just beware and be careful. Again, if done right and the computer functions when you are done, this does not void the apple warranty.
Thanks,
Jim
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Ok, so one more attempt at trying to explain the advantage of integer mode and then I think it's time to move on. The intent of this thread is as a how-to for folks who want a proven, reliable, superb sounding music server and for the most part, don't want to become computer tweakers and Mac tech gurus.
So once more, this thread is intended as a how-to, not for debating the merits of different playback software, advanced system configurations beyond those that have been proven to be robust and within the means of people who don't want to spend their time tweaking their computers and becoming Mac gurus, an who want to take advantage of the inherent excellent sound quality potential in the basic mac mini computer.
Sorry if I offended. I was merely trying to make sense of the notion that "integer mode is better than floating." I prefer to read data than go on subjective evidence...nothing more. I was also trying to clear-up the mis-information that "Lion does not use integer mode audio," when in fact it does. There have been problems with the lack of USB drivers using integer mode, but given where Jobs was going I would not be surprised if he is trying to phase out USB and replace it with Thunderbolt. Great idea!
Regarding becoming "computer tweakers and Mac tech gurus," most of the suggestions I made can be done from OS X System Preferences. This is basic OS use that anyone who uses a Mac should know. Granted, those moving from Windows may be confused initially, but it does not take long to figure out that OS X is far easier than Windows.
Regarding what Mac2 does to the OS, can be done by almost anybody. I find the $399 price tag a bit high when someone can turn off most of the utilities that they do, do their own stripped down install, etc, themselves for nothing, then this type of information should be made available...it is what DIY is all about. Granted, Mach2 does it the easy way by running a script, but Apple makes it easy for the end-user to perform the same tasks using System Preferences. I do take exception though when Mach2 says: "We strip out almost 1.5GB of unnecessary code." This is misleading. They may not install certain apps such as Garageband, iPhoto, iMovie, Quicktime, etc., but this is not OS code per se that they are removing as they imply on their site. When they run their scripts they are disabling certain tasks by communicating with the OS. The OS code still remains the same, unless they are Apple developers and are manipulating the OS themselves and redistributing it which would be a clear violation of Apple's EULA...I am certain that they don't it this way. Anyway, the page I linked to merely provides options for people to do basically what Mach2 does, only for nothing. http://www.co-bw.com/Audio_OSX_Optimal_Audio.htm (http://www.co-bw.com/Audio_OSX_Optimal_Audio.htm)
Also, when I mentioned SL it was not to convert people to techies but was merely being used as part of a monolog on debunking the mis-information that non-Apple external USB CD drives cannot be used with Lion, especially if one is trying to boot from an external drive. No harm, no foul, and certainly no intended motives or maliciousness on my part. In the end, I was merely trying to get some clarification and share some information. Remember, I am a mathematician/computer scientist by training and so when integer and floating point are compared then I look at the precision of the numbers. I am a self-admitted noob when it comes to analog circuitry and how it all works, and try to approach it all logically.
Just merely trying to have a friendly discussion and learn something in the process.
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Well, since there is no need for floating point conversions back and forth, the data stream from audio file to dac is untouched and that alone should make it better -- and it does. In your first example, in fact, a value of 35.6 will be quantized to 35 -- but that is a discrete value in the range of the 16/20/24/332 bit word that then maps to the relative output of the dac, not an absolute audio value of 35.6. Integer mode does sound significantly better and you yourself admit that you haven't tried it, so it seems you are just going on theoretical concerns rather than what actually happens. Yes, I realize that Amarra does not support integer mode -- because while it does bypass core audio, it uses an internal floating point format for everything.
As for what Mach2 does, I'm again sorry, but it is far more invloved than you make it out to be. They do remove/modify certain parts of the os code, but as they do it on an individual basis, for a fee, they are not redistributing the os, just performing a service for pay. Again here, the proof is in the listening -- in comparing a mach2 mini to a highly end-user tweaked machine, but still playing the same files though the same version of PureMusic/Amarra, whatever is indeed a very noticeably better sonic experience. On top of thatand separate from that are the launch scripts for the various music playback apps, which terminate even more background processes when you launch your PureMusic/Amarra/watever using the script -- another very noticeable sonic upgrade over simply launching your music playback app directly from Finder or the dock. And BTW, they do not remove the dock or the auto launch -- they do want to leave the option of running headless open for their customers as well as leaving the basic mac programs like email and safari still available. Numerous people have started rumors that the tweaks that mach2 do are nothing special, yet nobody has yet been able to duplicate the same level of audio performance -- with or without the launch scripts.
So again, I'm trying to stick with the proven steps and tweaks and recommendations that bring the Mac Mini to the superb level of audio performance it is capable of, but whatever it is that the guys at Mach2 do, it is clearly, and I mean with no question, clearly, a much higher performing setup. Not speculation -- personal experience, and yes, subjective and no, no measurements were taken as I'm not sure they'd would mean much anyway or that any useful information would be had from them.
So, please no more attempts at debunking my findings based on theory -- if you've not tried it, please just let it go so I can get on with the how-to that these guys want.
And, as far as Liion and integer mode -- if Rob Robinson -- formerly of bell labs and who wrote PureMusic (and who also uses double precision 64-bit fp in his internal format when needed( says that integer mode does not work in Lion, I trust he knows what he's saying. In fact, you are the first person I've ever seen that claims that integer mode is available in Lion.
Ok, seriously hope that this is the end of theoretical discussion based on speculation and not actual experience. I'd really like to get back to getting these folks up and running with a good, solid, well known set of choices and procedures to get a very high quality mac mini based server. As I alsosaid, the final installements will be all about taking things to the limit -- mach2 mods, external dc supplies, specialty cables etc.
Thanks,
Jim
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Jim! You have convinced me to do this! I've been running a full server and windows based system into a Transporter and have wanted a much smaller and quiter solution. PLEASE focus and keep on topic :)
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Hey Aaron,
Great to see you on board! Coming from a similar setup (though not the transporter), I'm sure you'll be very happy with the ultimate results -- not only is there less mechanical/ambient noise (essentially none) but the sound quality leap is pretty remarkable.
Hopefully more tomorrow as I hope to be out of bed and back on my feet.
Things are going great here -- music has never sounded better, organization is in process and new capabilities for building more kinds of things at home in all kinds of weather are slowly coming online, and if all goes well, someday this summer I may start offering custom builds of select BH products.
Good to hear from you again,
Jim
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As for moving the OS image, I'd just suggest a complete new reinstall of the OS, and then you can customize it by leaving out all the unnecessary fonts, printer drivers, language translations and iLife and other apps that only take up space, increase boot time and can slow things down.
Thats what I'd prefer as well. Does the Mac Mini come with install discs or would I need to purchase them?
I think I may have encountered another hurdle. I just found out that iTunes does not play FLAC files. Is this still an issue if PureMusic/Amarra apps are used? I wont be too happy if I have to convert nearly a Terra-byte of FLAC files to something iTunes "allows." This kind of throws cold water on my Mac Mini enthusiasm at the moment. Hopefully someone can come in here and calm my anxiety.
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Thats what I'd prefer as well. Does the Mac Mini come with install discs or would I need to purchase them?
I think I may have encountered another hurdle. I just found out that iTunes does not play FLAC files. Is this still an issue if PureMusic/Amarra apps are used? I wont be too happy if I have to convert nearly a Terra-byte of FLAC files to something iTunes "allows." This kind of throws cold water on my Mac Mini enthusiasm at the moment. Hopefully someone can come in here and calm my anxiety.
If you get a new mini then you will not get any install disks and you cannot . You can buy it on a USB for $69. They do everything over the internet now. What I did was take it into to an Apple service center...not one owned by Apple...and I bought the SSD from them, they installed it and put the OS on it at the same time. They also left the original OS on the original drive as a back-up. When I installed Lion onto my MBP, I had no options for selecting what exactly I wanted to install...you get one option, everything.
Amarra does have an option for converting FLAC files to Aiff, and there is some freeware out that does the same thing. I would imagine the PM provides the same service.
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Tom,
PureMusic can natively play flac files as well as DSD files (natively if he dac supports it, or on-the-fly conversion to PCM format otherwise.
Also, for some reason I got install discs with my 2011 macbook air, even though i doesn't have a cd drive.
Sorry for the short answer but it's back to bed for me. Back online in a day or two...
-- Jim
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Also, for some reason I got install discs with my 2011 macbook air, even though i doesn't have a cd drive.
Is it running Snow Leopard or Lion? SL shipped with disks, but when I got my new Lion mini in 2011 there were no disks. It is now Apple's official policy that future OS releases will on be available via download from the Apple Store. You can still buy SL disks, a Lion USB but no disks, and that will be the end of hard OS mediums as we know it. You cannot use the SL disk on any new Mac. There is a workaround, it is not hard to do. The hard part was in figuring out what had to be done to do it properly. If anyone is interested in installing SL on a new Mac, then I could show them how to do it via a tutorial build.
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Jim,
As interesting as this thread is I'd like to read more about the nuts and bolts of your set up. No offense intended to anyone contributing but we seem to have strayed from the initial goal. Just my 2 cents
Thanks,
John
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As interesting as this thread is I'd like to read more about the nuts and bolts of your set up. No offense intended to anyone contributing but we seem to have strayed from the initial goal. Just my 2 cents
My bad, I didn't realize that "Selecting and Configuring a Mac Mini as a music server" translated to "What You Got?" Just being a smart-ass.
Currently I have a:
Macmini 5,2 (the new ones)
Intel i7 2.7 GHz with 4Gb of 1333 RAM--will upgrade to 8Gb within a month
The boot drive is a Corsair 64 Gb SSD, and there is a 7200 500 Gb internal slave drive used as the back-up. I have 2-external Glyph drives (4 Tb) that are also used as back-ups and one of them feeds my audio.
I am running Amarra that feeds into a DIP Combo word clock via TOSLINK, and use EyeTV when I want to watch a movie or some TV
There are also two CD Players the feed into the DIP, but only one art a time (a SACD, and then a HHB 850+ for the Redbook stuff.)
The DIP then feeds into a 24/96 tube DAC/Preamp, and this feeds into a 25 wpc power amp and a Crack/Speedball with HD-650's
The speakers are B&W CM1's
Everything is plugged into a Monster Pro 2500 power conditioner/surge protector
I use a Sony external DVD/CD RW for my disk needs
All interconnects are DIY using solid silver wire
Currently, I am waiting for parts to build the C7 power cable.
The unit above sits at the end of the bed and is used for both audio playback and TV/movie viewing.
Once the BH DAC is made available then I will build an audio unit for downstairs using a BH DAC and get a new Mac mini. Currently, I am finishing up some Paramonts, Foreplay III, and will build another Crack. The BH unit will also have an Eros Phono Preamp, a still to be determined turntable, and will drive some Tonian MK II's speakers.
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The MBA is running Lion, as is the Mini server, but the mini did not come with discs.
Folks,
I'm starting to get back on my feet, and will resume tomorrow when I can get down to my office where my notes and minis are.
Sorry for the sporadic posts but I wasn't planning on getting ill.
And no, it's not really a whatcha got thread -- it is a how-to and that's where I'd like it to stay.
Thanks,
Jim
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Ok folks, I'm somewhat back on my feet and am ready to continue this series on choosing and configuring a Mac Mini for use as a music server.
Anyway, a couple of basic principles to go over first:
1) For best sonic performance you don't want your data on the same drive as the operating system and playback software -- this shouldn't be new to anybody who has done computer based audio -- whether for listening or recording -- a separate data drive is always recommended.
2) You want to use an external drive for music storage, and one that is using a different type of interface than your DAC. In other words, most people will be using a USB DAC or USB -> SPDIF converter, so the data drive in this case should be firewire. I can't at this point recommend Thunderbolt as it is relatively untested, though could potentially be the better choice over firewire, though the drives are still really expensive. If you plan to use only a TOSLink output to your dac, then either firewire or USB should work, but even here, the anecdotal evidence is that firewire sounds better.
3) For maximum performance, it is highly recommendede that the external firewire drive use the Oxford 834 chipset -- the Mercury on-the-go portable drives and enclosures from OCW, and the Oyen Firewire 800 mini-pro drives use this chipset, and I've used both and can tell no real difference between hem.
For USB external drives, the WD Passport portable drives always seem to get high marks -- and I can say from my own experience with one of these that it is a nice USB drive.
4) Choose a 5400 RPM drive over a 7200 one -- the speed is of no real consequence except when indexing new music files and the 5400 rpm drives are physically and electricially quieter.
Now, back to the subject of OS/program boot SSD drives...
Not all SSDs are created equal and as technology changes, recommendations are bound to as well. I use an Intel 40 gb drive in my ultra tricked out mini, which has been fine, but right now the best recommendations are the OCZ Vertex 3 and Crucial drives for use in the Mac Minis. 40-60 gb is plenty, so get whatever is less expensive unless you have some need for more storage (some people dual-boot if they don't dedicate their machines to music playback, so you would need a partitiion for an optimized OS instance for music playback, and another for office and home applications. Generally not recommended, but people have done it and like the results, but how to do this and manage it is beyond the scope of this intro article.
Finally, unless you want to go to some fancy cabling and a high quality external power supply for the music storage drive, a buss- powered one is fine. To really get any benefit beyond that you'll need a special FW cable that has no power leg in it, and combine it with an external, linear, regulated power supply, but there is only one such cable and it is expensive. It is BTW, a very nice upgrade for later on. Also, the firewire 800 cables that come with most of these drives are adequate, but I found the cables from unibrain to be a nice improvement without much extra cost. Like the power cable to the mini itself, it is worth playing with both the direction of the FW cable, as well which of the two ports on the external drive you plug it into. The differences won't be earth-shattering, but in the right system, you should be able to hear them, but how much is going to vary greatly from system to system, etc.
If you plan to use a USB external music storage drive, do yourself a favor and get a decent usb cable -- the Wireworld UltraViolet or StarLight with the appropriate connector (B, mini-B, or Micro-B) will be a nice upgrade -- and as with the firewire ports, experiment with which usb port on the mini sounds best. More on how to optimize these things in another installment.
Of course, if you have the money and can live with constantly refreshing your listening library, an external SSD can be another big step up.
So, to recap:
external music storage should use a different interface than the dac, should be buss powered (as a starting point), should use the Oxford 834 chipset for FW and should be 5400 rpm to cut down on mechanical and electrical noise.
For usb storage, the WD passport drives seem to be the go-to choice, but also benefit from a better quality usb cable.
OCZ Vertex 3 and Crucial SSDs are recommended for the mini (but if you have something else, don't sweat it, just use what you have now.) You can buy configured external drives or bare cases for installing your own drives from Oyen Digital and OWC (note the OWC enclosures are plastic and seem to make more mechanical noise than the aluminum ones from Oyen.
And, depending on how much hi-res content you have, you can start with 500g or 1 tb drives, and with firewire you can daisy chain them and just add more drives as your collection grows.
Next installment I'll go over some basic tweaks to iTunes, the operating system, drive formatting considerations, etc. Then, aside from some more advanced tweaks, and of course ripping and loading your music files and choosing and configuring your playback software of choice, you should be ready to start playing tunes.
Note, you will need a keyboard and display to get through all this and to get things setup for headless operation, but once that is done you should only need them for making any changes.
Thanks,
Jim
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I don't want to throw a monkey wrench in the works here, but I just do not get it at all. If you are using a remote DAC ie not internal to the computer, and your system interconnects are properly shielded, and system componets are properly grounded.......
Who cares about a tiny bit of noise in the computer. You are not taking any audio signal from the computer.
Also, as long as the computer is not really "busy" there is way more CPU capacity than is needed for the playing of music. Same for disc speed.
P
I must say the same about power cords. I just don't see how a 3' section of exotic following all the household wiring does anything but drain ones wallet.
Sorry, don't mean to step on toes, but I just had to say my 2 cents worth
PS. Lion does allow you to specify 24 bit integer output
Ralph
Taos,New Mexico
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If I have learned anything in my few years in the audio business, it is that stuff I didn't think would matter often does. Thus I don't usually naysay something unless I have tried it myself - even something I don't think will make a difference. I have been surprised more than once.
RE power cords, I suspect everyone gets that one backwards. Quite likely it's not about what comes in on the line, it's what your gear is putting back into the line and all of your other gear. I suspect fancy powercords are mostly filtering out junk from the gear they are plugged into.
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Doc,
Not necessarily naysaying, just trying to get my hard head around this,
Ralph
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True, but where is the engineering behind this? What I need to see is math and science to tell me that these things can have an impact on the audio signal delivered to the DAC
Ralph
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Ralph,
We have taken this too far off the subject. You have a PM.
The above post removed.
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Could we please try and stay on topic, the last thing we need is to rehash the whole powercord "discussion". I suggest we take Jim's contribution for what it is, recommendations based on his own personal experience. Sorry, just had to say it.....
Sorry Grainger you posted just before I did, thanks.
Cheers,
Shawn
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In general I'm also speaking about running the mini as a dedicated music server and generally headless (no keyboard, mouse, or display). Notebooks tend to have a lot of stuff crammed into an even smaller space, have high voltage dc-to-dc converters on board to supply the voltage needed for displays, and are generally built for ultimate compactness, not lowest noise. Likewise with desktops and
iMacs, etc. -- there's no way to really get too far from the display noise and power supplies, etc. Of course a lot of this is really just logical speculation, but the results keep coming back that the Minis just work best for audio, and that's the best answer I can give to all of this.
Jim
I don't know why you would want to go "headless" or even how you could do it without buying an iPhone or iPad to run the mini remotely. My mini is about three feet from the monitor and the monitor does not have any affect on the sound. When I play audio late at night while laying in bed I will turn the monitor off and once I accidentally unplugged it from the mini and there is/was no effect on the audio quality. Also, since one has supposedly turned off all of the power saving stuff the user will want to power down the mini when it is not being used. It is not an easy task to shut down a mini with no monitor. Amarra runs iTunes simultaneously and iTunes always interrupts the shut-down process even when using the hot-keys <CMD-OPT-CNTRL-EJECT>. Also, how would you load your songs into cache, access the equalizer, make changes to the audio software, use the Activity Monitor, and do all that needs to be done when setting-up the audio to run, etc., without a monitor?
The biggest disadvantage of not going headless is that if one wants to use the mini as part of a theater system. The mini does have HDMI, and so it would be a natural progression to use the mini to drive the audio for movies viewed on the 50" plasma/LED TV. Here the TV would be the monitor.
Regarding using the mini as being the only viable Apple option for audio. If one were to run a MBP in clamshell mode then it would be equally as successful if one had an internal SSD, had a dual-boot option, and used external drives for the audio. The beauty with this system is you have a monitor when needed, and there is always the portability.
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I run my Mac Mini headless...I use the built in "screen share" function and use my Macbook Pro's screen, keyboard, and track pad to control my Mini. I do have a video out for connecting to my flat screen TV but leave that disconnected until I wish to use it (rare). I also keep a set of USB mouse/keyboard handy in case I need to run the Mini directly (only have done that a handful of times). It couldn't be more slick than to have two Macs and run them both off my laptop. Oh, and I rarely reboot the Mac Mini. It is so stable, it doesn't need rebooting like other machines. Unix based software is great at running 24/7.
And I noticed a step up in performance when I converted from a USB external drive to the Oyen FW800 drive. I back the Oyen up onto my USB drive regularly so I have two copies of my music files (you never know). I suppose I should store the second copy at work or off-site. Just for good measure.
Thank you everyone who has contributed to this thread and for helping to keep it on target.
Cheers,
John
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Folks, first, my dad is going in for open heart surgery on Monday morning to replace a valve,do a bypass and roto-rooter a carotid artery, so I'm a bit preoccupied at the moment -- again, sorry, had no idea this was coming.
Ralph, I really wish I could explain all these things in rational, rigid scientific terms, but a) that is not the intent of what I'm doing here, and b) I'm not sure anybody really can at this point. Also, noise in digital circuits is often not perceptible as "noisy noise" but as shifts in tonality, dynamics, soundstage and imaging, subtle textures, perceived timing, glare, etc. -- some of these are known some are not, but if the listening environment is up to the task, the changes as you remove or deal with more and more potential noise sources becomes rather apparent.
Yoder, please re--read what I have posted -- I do run the system in my listening room with a usb keyboard and a pair of iPod type collapsible headphones plugged into the mini's 3.5mm audio out, and I did tell people that they will need a monitor and keyboard to install and configure things and to make larger changes, rip CDs (unless they do it on another workstation) and so on. I actually find it hard to believe you find it necessary to challenge me on whether running a mini as a headless music server is viable -- people do it all the time (thanks for the input, John) and yes, I do use an iPod Touch for that, but just about any laptop or idevice will do.
Now, you have said something that really confirms my suspicion when you say that you can't hear a difference when you unplugged the monitor. What you confirmed is that, whether it be the gear, the local power grid, your room acoustics or your listening preferences/prejudices, you and I are not hearing the same things at all. Un plugging the monitor from the mini was a very significant clearing of the sound in my system. It is often the case as well, that removing something (rather than adding) is often a more obvious test of the effect that piece has on the overall sound. I've also become quite good over the years at determining (to my ears) if a change is truly an upgrade or a lateral or backwards move -- most are lateral at best, from what I can tell. In other words, they are different, not necessarily better. So, this is not a challenge to your manhood, not a slam of your gear or anything like that, just a fact that apparently you, for whatever reason, are not getting the same kind of sonic picture that I am. And that is just fine -- it simply doesn't matter at all to anybody -- if you like what you hear, and are satisfied with it, then so be it. Who am I to tell you what you hear and how it effects your enjoyment -- and likewise, who are you to question and challenge me on what I hear and how I enjoy my music? If it works for you... don't worry, be happy.
Now, did you say that a macbook in clamshell mode "should sound the same" or did you say "does" sound better or the same? Again, I've tried this with my 2010 13" mbp and on a late 2009 white macbook and both were an equal step downwards from the mini. Again, if you actually did this test and those are your results, fine -- they are not my results and they are not InfernoSTIs either (not to mention the many other people who have confirmed this for themselves.
So, once again, if this thread is of no interest to you, if you are not able to hear the differences in one of the more obvious changes (removing the monitor), and you want to continue to challenge inconsequential concepts such as running a mini headless, and if you continue to insist that things you have not tried for yourself *should* sound some particular way, then please just stop. Nobody is holding a gun to your head and making you follow my recommendations -- if they don't work for you, please just move along to another topic.
And just in case you didn't notice, I am not making a dime on this in any way shape or form, have nothing to sell, no product to push; just trying to help out some fellow music lovers get the most from their systems. All this is doing is taking my time, effort and a bit more BS than I bargained for. Maybe Bob was right -- can we continue the mac mini discussion without the animosity? I guess not, and that is really a shame. Very soon the constant challenges, offline nasty-grams and other BS is just going to make me throw in the towel, and I'll just write up a tutorial/how-to and email it to the guys who seem to be interested.
Thanks also to Dan, John K. Shawn, Grainger and others for stepping in -- I do appreciate it.
So, I'm working on the next parts, but it involves a lot of fact checking and so on, and I'm also a little preoccupied at the moment, and we'll see how things go for my dad on Monday and then I'll know more about what to expect and when.
Thanks,
Jim
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It makes for an interesting discussion. Hope your dad comes thru ok
Ralph
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I will add that, if you read the forum rules (not that anyone seems to these days) I have asked that participants here share their firsthand experience. Not only does that imply that one should simply share their impression of an actual experiment they tried rather than offering hearsay, it also implies that one really needn't pooh pooh something that someone else has experienced. The need to explain why we hear what we hear often seems to trample over the point that we heard what we heard, or didn't hear what we didn't. Sometimes we just don't have enough info to front a hypothesis.
There's valuable info being posted in these threads by the participants, that I would like to see stay undiluted by the challenges and disagreement. And there are lots of other places on the internet where one can focus on fighting perceived indignities and the public expression of one's impatience if that seems necessary. I understand that participation on forums can be trying at times. It's trying for me right now as I see a group of guys I consider good friends showing frustration with each other. I'll suggest that if you have a different experience than someone else and you are drawing different conclusions, simply share it without challenging the other guy. Heck, start your own thread, it doesn't cost you a penny!
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Yoder, please re--read what I have posted -- I do run the system in my listening room with a usb keyboard and a pair of iPod type collapsible headphones plugged into the mini's 3.5mm audio out, and I did tell people that they will need a monitor and keyboard to install and configure things and to make larger changes, rip CDs (unless they do it on another workstation) and so on. I actually find it hard to believe you find it necessary to challenge me on whether running a mini as a headless music server is viable -- people do it all the time (thanks for the input, John) and yes, I do use an iPod Touch for that, but just about any laptop or idevice will do.
Now, you have said something that really confirms my suspicion when you say that you can't hear a difference when you unplugged the monitor. What you confirmed is that, whether it be the gear, the local power grid, your room acoustics or your listening preferences/prejudices, you and I are not hearing the same things at all. Un plugging the monitor from the mini was a very significant clearing of the sound in my system. It is often the case as well, that removing something (rather than adding) is often a more obvious test of the effect that piece has on the overall sound. I've also become quite good over the years at determining (to my ears) if a change is truly an upgrade or a lateral or backwards move -- most are lateral at best, from what I can tell. In other words, they are different, not necessarily better. So, this is not a challenge to your manhood, not a slam of your gear or anything like that, just a fact that apparently you, for whatever reason, are not getting the same kind of sonic picture that I am. And that is just fine -- it simply doesn't matter at all to anybody -- if you like what you hear, and are satisfied with it, then so be it. Who am I to tell you what you hear and how it effects your enjoyment -- and likewise, who are you to question and challenge me on what I hear and how I enjoy my music? If it works for you... don't worry, be happy.
Now, did you say that a macbook in clamshell mode "should sound the same" or did you say "does" sound better or the same? Again, I've tried this with my 2010 13" mbp and on a late 2009 white macbook and both were an equal step downwards from the mini. Again, if you actually did this test and those are your results, fine -- they are not my results and they are not InfernoSTIs either (not to mention the many other people who have confirmed this for themselves.
So, once again, if this thread is of no interest to you, if you are not able to hear the differences in one of the more obvious changes (removing the monitor), and you want to continue to challenge inconsequential concepts such as running a mini headless, and if you continue to insist that things you have not tried for yourself *should* sound some particular way, then please just stop. Nobody is holding a gun to your head and making you follow my recommendations -- if they don't work for you, please just move along to another topic.
And just in case you didn't notice, I am not making a dime on this in any way shape or form, have nothing to sell, no product to push; just trying to help out some fellow music lovers get the most from their systems. All this is doing is taking my time, effort and a bit more BS than I bargained for. Maybe Bob was right -- can we continue the mac mini discussion without the animosity? I guess not, and that is really a shame. Very soon the constant challenges, offline nasty-grams and other BS is just going to make me throw in the towel, and I'll just write up a tutorial/how-to and email it to the guys who seem to be interested.
Jim, I think you are reading too much into things and are getting too personal. The only reference I saw regarding your stating the use of keyboard was: "Note, you will need a keyboard and display to get through all this and to get things setup for headless operation, but once that is done you should only need them for making any changes." I have always advocated the use of a monitor/TV if one wants to utilize an audio system (just unplug when listening only) while watching a flick or streaming video, not to mention the extensive OS tweaks that I and others like to perform. I am aware that people go headless, but in doing so most have a second Apple device. Not everyone can afford a second apple device, in which case the non-headless dual-boot format is the most affordable and should be addressed if we want to spread the "word." If one just has a MBP, then it is a viable option until a mini can be afforded...is there anything wrong with just putting it out there? I use my system for both audio and video and there may be others out there who want the same. I have clam shelled both a mid-2010 17" MBP, and 15" MBP i7 Quad. There were differences between the two and I would compare the 17" to the mid-2010 duo mini as far as audio quality goes, and the 15" MBP to my 2011 i7 5,2 mini. The only problem was that the first two were not running Amarra, and the last two newer Mac's were (I have eight Mac's in the house.) This leads to a point you brought up earlier. I said if the clam shell MBP had SSD, ran in dual-boot, and had external FW drives then it will be "equally as successful." A Mac Pro would probably blow the mini out of the water, but who can afford one?
Regarding the perceived improved sound when using Lion. The improved sound quality of Lion is the result of using the iX processors, having faster bus speeds, etc, and I am using two such a systems now (mini and 15" MBP.) Regarding what you say are differences in hearing is true. I am not taking personal jabs at you, but am merely posting alternatives and trying to stimulate dialog. Maybe some will hear things like you, and maybe some will hear things like me, or may be they will hear their own thing. The point is that we should entertain all ideas and go with where we can get the highest cost-performance ratio affordable.
When you say: "So, this is not a challenge to your manhood, not a slam of your gear or anything like that, just a fact that apparently you, for whatever reason, are not getting the same kind of sonic picture that I am. And that is just fine -- it simply doesn't matter at all to anybody -- if you like what you hear, and are satisfied with it, then so be it. Who am I to tell you what you hear and how it effects your enjoyment -- and likewise, who are you to question and challenge me on what I hear and how I enjoy my music? If it works for you... don't worry, be happy." And, then to say that what I say "simply doesn't matter at all to anybody" is a rather vicious, vitriolic thing to say and unwarrented. Having worked with Mac's for years, been trained by Apple in hardware repair,and OS X Server, and been part of the Mac Developer Network then maybe, just maybe, there is something that matters to somebody on this forum when it comes to Mac's.
You also say: "Maybe Bob was right -- can we continue the mac mini discussion without the animosity? I guess not, and that is really a shame," yet from the very beginning you said my theoretical speculations were not invited and I should take them elsewhere, implied that my objective facts (Lion running in integer mode) were so much bull-pucky and you mis-quoted Ron Robinson in doing so (I have the quote in the other thread,) and yet is was you in the center of the battle that closed the other thread. Furthermore, you came after me regarding my points of view on hard drive use, and when I gave my opinion that FW800 was far superior to USB and provided data to back it up then you again snapped at me. In both of these instances I did not respond. Finally, you spun your way out of my questing Mach2Music removing 1.8 Gb of OS code. BTW: they don't: 1) the OS is only 3.8 Gb in size and this mode code would virtually disable it, 2) when you talk of removing code you refer to lines of code not size, 3) the Apple Developer Network does not work this way, and 4) Apple does not allow such to happen per the EULA and ADN contract. What they do is go into the system and remove various items that will not be of any use. I unhid the system files and found about 2.5 Gb of sys apps/utls I could remove. I go over it some in the other thread. My point with Mach2, is that the end-user can do what they do themselves without spending $399. But, there are some who don't want to bother with it and so more power to them if they buy the tweak. For those who would rather do it themselves, then their wants should be respected and if there is information out there showing then let us lead the way.
I have admitted that I do not know all there is about audio, but I am learning and researching it profusely. Having taught for 24 years I have learned to answer questions that others may have and have learned to respect the needs of the learner, and not condemn them and put them in the corner for asking what may seem like mundane/trivial questions. With a forum new people are always coming in and have no idea what has been discussed in the past...no need to get our shorts tied-up in a knot when they do ask mundane questions. I imagine Doc has answered a few questions hundreds, if not thousands, of times over the years. Also, being almost 60 it takes more than disagreement to "challenge my manhood," in fact, there really is nothing that does such since I am happy with who I am. Anyway, it takes patience to teach and/or disseminate information. If someone brings up AC cords, and a noob comes in asking for some objectivity verification then those in the know should point it out as succinctly/politely as possible or point them to the thread, and go about the topic at hand.
Nobody here, well maybe except the BH crew, is making a dime. I spend a lot of time researching and building my Webhttp://www.co-bw.com (http://www.co-bw.com) site and I actually spend money to share my research and information.
I certainly hope that you are not saying that I am sending you "offline nasty grams." In fact, that statement is very misleading since you are lambasting me and then include the remark in the same post. For the public record, I have never sent Jim a "nasty gram." In fact, I have told you that I value your knowledge and have asked for your help in the past and drove 90 miles one way to not only buy some speakers but to get some help from you, and to help you. I do not understand why "constant challenges" would make you want to throw in the towel, and if my questions/comments are perceived as BS then what can I say? You seem to get angry when people may have a different opinion than you or ask you questions. It is not an attack on you, but some of us like facts and data. There is so much audio mumbo-jumbo and snake oil out there makes it essential to support what you say. If one method sounds great to you, and a different method sounds great to me then this is no reason to get upset. Instead, embrace it and encourage the reader to try it and see what he/she thinks.
No hard feelings, and I hope your pops has a speedy recovery.
Ron
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Jim,
First and foremost, take care of yourself and your family. Everything else can wait. I'll keep your dad in my prayers.
When things settle down a bit I'd love to read your future installments. I'm going to put together a system very soon and your experiences and tips have been very helpful. Please don't, "throw in the towel." I'm the one that started the first Mac Mini thread, the one that got locked, so needless to say I'm very interested.
One quick question for when you have time. Is there a big downside to using the internal drive that comes with the mini? I'm probably going to do this in steps as finances will allow. Purchasing a SSD and the OS might put me over budget right now. Is it better to wait?
Best Regards,
Tom
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Dan, very observant -- the word here is frustrated, not angry or anything like that.
Yoder, sorry, I honestly never in a million years meant to imply that you are the one who sent the nasty-grams -- you weren't; enough said. As for the statement "who cares what you think" is again poor phrasing on my part and I should have completed my full thought on that. What I mean is who cares what *anybody* says when it comes to audio as in the end it is such a highly subjective endeavor/pursuit that despite the best intentions of any of who give advice, it is never universal, is always tainted by our individual perceptions and values, as well as other highly variable conditions such as the local power grid, house wiring, RFI environment, and so on.
No, no hard feelings and I'm going to change the title of the thread to more accurately convey what I had in mind.
Also, when I said music server, that is exactly what I mean -- I have zero experience or need for HT, surround sound and all that, I'm strictly a 2-channel audio/music guy. And again, I don't want to put too fine a point on this, but I know for a fact that there is more going on at Mach2 than you speculate and that is really the limit of what I can say. But basically what they say publicly is indeed true, but since they don't want to give the shop away, they keep the rest very close to the vest. Far more than even I am aware of. Darrel and Kevin are both nice guys with day jobs and they are completely above board when it comes to doing what they do. In fact they would not do a custom install on my macbook air as they have never tried it and don't have the confidence to say it will work as well, plus the fact that they know, even with their mods, the mba is not a top audio performer, and really, that is what they are about. And as usual, if you don't think it's worth it or you can do better, that is truly fine -- I found the changes to be rather remarkable.
Hi Tom, yes, you can absolutely start with just a basic mac mini, iTunes, and someting like BitPerf.app to bypass the terrible Quicktime audio playback engine (and also enable on the fly sample rate changes) and turn off some basic OS extras like spotlight, the dashboard, any extraneous interfaces, make some tweaks to iTunes and have a really decent music server. Upgrade as you go -- that's what I'm doing with my second mini (though I sent the 2011 server back as I didn't need the server software and really want even more horsepower for my desk machine). I think even something like the BH power cable kit with a C7 connector in place of the IEC would be a nice upgrade over the stock Apple power cord, which is really terrible. Just leave the earth wiring unterminated at the C7 end and I'll bet anything that you hear a nice difference. Then, flip the connector around to the other polarity and see if the sound changes, if it does and sounds better one way than the other, then just go with what you like.
The next step would be more memory, the internal SSD and the external FW storage drive (assuming a USB DAC.)
Thanks all for the well wishes afor my dad -- he's 82, in ood shape for his age, still very active, and while this has been something that has been known for sometime, apparently now is the time to move ahead with it. He's tough -- was a football player for the Merchant Marine Academy and has had total replacements of both hips and knees, so we call him the bionic dad. He's got great doctors, fantastic hospitals in his area (socal) and my sister and her family are very close by to help out during recovery.
Take care all,
Jim
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Jim,
I wish your Dad the best for a complete recovery.
John
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Is there a big downside to using the internal drive that comes with the mini? I'm probably going to do this in steps as finances will allow. Purchasing a SSD and the OS might put me over budget right now. Is it better to wait?
When money plays a factor in purchasing any Apple product then the first rule of thumb is: "Do not buy any upgrades from Apple that you can get elsewhere, otherwise they will steal you blind." Though I must admit that they have come down considerably in the last two years. I would only do one upgrade when buying a mini and that is to get the i7 processor. The i7 has Power Boost, and hyper-threading and is well worth the $100 in my book. That being said you will get a machine equipped with 4 Gb of RAM. Here is a good link for comparative shopping: http://www.appleinsider.com/mac_price_guide/ (http://www.appleinsider.com/mac_price_guide/) MacMall, the lowest price unless you are an educator, does not have the non-server i7 mini listed so you may want to call them. The educational price for the i7 is $869, plus taxes. My philosophy has always been to go with the "extreme" CPU/motherboard and build on that. Don't buy the Server version of the mini unless you want to spend time hacking the OS to get it to run DVD's, and perform certain other tasks...though a quad i7 would be sweet.
Anyway, I bought the i7 with the standard 500 Gb 5200 rpm drive. I then took it to a certified Apple repair shop and bought and had them install a 64 Gb Corsair SSD. For around $140 they did everything and copied my old drives contents onto the SSD. I kept the 500 Gb drive inside and use it as a back-up drive. My next upgrade it to drop 4 more Gb of RAM in. It does behave oddly after any firmware updates in that it will boot off of the 500 instead of the SSD--I think because I have not locked the System Boot preference window. But, it is really no biggie since it only takes about 15 seconds to boot-up.
Definitely go with a C7 power cord, but good luck in finding the female C7. I have searched all over the world looking for one and found some in the UK. I just got them about a week ago and was disappointed that they were made of a hard plastic and not a hard rubber, but I was happy to see that they were from Japan and not China. Yes, there is the Furutech C7 but it is 1) so bulky that once plugged in you cannot get the network cable into its port, and 2) it is so such a sloppy fit that I am certain that had I used it it the weight of the cable itself would have unseated the plug. Anyway, I bought five of these C7s and only need two. If anyone wants one then PM me and I will figure out the price. I think with my total investment, and shipping them out will bring the price to about $4 a piece. If anyone finds a source for some really good ones, then I would love to know about it.
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I do have a power cord with the furutech c7 connector and it is a modified one that still lets you use the ethernet cable -- there is a thread somewhere on this forum about this where I point this out. As for the loose fit, I don't have that problem at all with mine.
I also think it is really time for me to toss in the towel here -- just follow Ron's suggestions on his web site and you can finish what I've started -- I don't agree with all of his steps and I'd add a few others, but for the most part all the information should be here.
Ron, I honestly don't know why you continue to post your recommendations that are the polar opposite of mine, but a quad core I7 is absolutely not needed for music playback purposes and may even be a hinderence from the point of power consumption, internal RF noise increase, extra fan on time, etc. my old, minimal mid 2010 with the i3 processor is far more than enough, but as you for some reason insist on posting recommendations contrary to mine, I'm just done. This just isn't worth the frustration anymore.
Folks, I still stand totally and completely behind my recommendations and warnings, but in short, any mac mini awith a unibody, whatever processor, internal SSD -- preferrably OCZ vertex 3 or Crucial, external FW drive (oyen or OWC with oxford 834 chipset, 500 gb to 1 tb 5400 rpm external drive and tweaks that Ron and others have outlined elsewhere -- to the os, itunes, etc. Turn off blue tooth, and wireless if not using an ethernet connection, if the usb port you choose is the same one that the IR Receiver is on, then turn that off as well, and you should be good to go.
If you want to take things further then contact me via email and I can point you to various outbooard dc power supplies (which require a warranty voiding modification to use), special cables, vibration control, and more -- all things I've tried and recommeend without any hesitation.
Sorry, but I'm not going to monitor this thread anymore, but I'm still available via email (please not PM) if anybody wants specific recommendations and the best reasoning I can come up for them when it is something I can explain, all backed up by my several years of messing about with computers of all types for audio player/server purposes, and tested with probably a couple dozen different dacs. Bottom line is that I use the mac mini as nothing else I've used has even come close, and is also far easier for non computer people to get sounding great.
Thanks,
Jim
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Ron, I honestly don't know why you continue to post your recommendations that are the polar opposite of mine, but a quad core I7 is absolutely not needed for music playback purposes and may even be a hinderence from the point of power consumption, internal RF noise increase, extra fan on time, etc.
Jim, you are acting paranoid. I said nothing about a "quad core i7" and would not buy the server with the quad. I suggested the consumer i7 that only has two cores. The quad i7 Server cost $999 without any upgrades, and I said "Don't buy the Server...". Also, the duo core i7 is exactly the same as the i5 as it is not the server model and does not have the extra fans and what-not. You blow things out of context and turn it into a personal vendetta. If you were paying attention I prefaced my remark by saying that I like to get the "extreme" when it comes to CPUs, and I do that so that it will be able to keep up with software as it evolves. Since you are always suggesting that all I want to do is correct/challenge you, then let me make one correction: the mini never came out with an i3 core. Mid 2010 was a 2 core duo, and 2011 was i5 or i7.
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Oh boy [sigh] I see yet another locked thread on the horizon. I thought my fellow bottleheads were better than this. Come on guys!
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Jim, just wanted to let you know, your father is in our thoughts and prayers. My Mother had a similar operation 10 years ago and is doing well. I'm sorry we could not get this thread to succeed. I hate to ask, but maybe you would consider a write-up in the community section, folks could ask questions with email or even in the forum. I guess my suggestion for taking your posts for what they were, simply suggestions based on your own personal experiences, fell on deaf ears. Take care and hope to hear from you soon.
Cheers,
Shawn
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yes, please continue and finish your entire instructional prose, including vibration control and the whole 9 yards, when you are able... and just put it in a new thread in its entirety, so we can enjoy and follow when we buy our mac minis and mach 2s... :) That would be great and MUCH appreciated!...
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This thread started as an attempt to further the knowledge of this group. A sharing of experiences to allow personal choices that fit our audio needs. I would agree with Natural Sound, lets get back to a less challenging and more helpful conversation. The thread is very informative but has lost it's way somewhat. I think what Jim has accomplished given his disability is in my view inspiring and I do not mean that in a condescending way at all. Yoder and Jim and many others who contribute to this forum are far more knowledgeable than I. The great thing about this forum is how many different levels of knowledge come together amicably and check their personal baggage at the door. This is what drew me to Bottlehead to begin with. Paul and Doc get the lion's share of the credit and well they should. Time and again I see them contribute their experiences to enrich this community and perhaps we have all forgotten how valuable that is. So like Natural Sound said,"come on guy's.
Sincerely,
John Roman