Solved: Speedball Upgrade issue: Voltage and Overheating

PerfectError · 2788

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Offline PerfectError

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Hi, so I installed my speedball upgrade after about a week I have been using my crack. I wanted to give it some time before I installed the upgrade so I can notice the sound difference (sounded uber sweet btw). Now that I
« Last Edit: April 03, 2012, 08:48:32 PM by PerfectError »



Offline Doc B.

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Reply #1 on: March 26, 2012, 06:37:32 PM
In theory the 100uF coupling caps could be damaged enough cause this kind of a hard short if they were subjected to some really hard mechanical stress, though I don't recall having seen this. You could just disconnect them completely from the circuit and redo the voltage measurements to verify if they are the problem. Are the measurements at the tube sockets equally low for both channels? It would tend to indicate a problem at the power supply if low voltages are common to both channels. I would be inclined to also look at the wiring that attaches the big PC board to the power supply, and the big PC board to the octal tube socket.

Dan "Doc B." Schmalle
President For Life
Bottlehead Corp.


Offline PerfectError

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Reply #2 on: March 27, 2012, 07:10:32 PM
Thanks for the reply Doc.

I took the caps off but it didn't change the readings. Going by what you said, I looked for where the difference from left to right was coming from. I found that it started on the big speedball board. I examined it closely and with the use of my ohm meter I found that something was shorting on center pin of TIP50 when the screw holding the heat sink was too tight. I readjusted the thermal pad, I can
« Last Edit: March 27, 2012, 07:12:42 PM by PerfectError »



Offline PerfectError

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Reply #3 on: March 28, 2012, 09:57:12 PM
After pouring through the forums for possible answers I found that this person also had similar higher voltages on the same terminals and a new tube fixed his issue.
http://www.bottlehead.com/smf/index.php/topic,2526.0.html

It seems like most voltage problems are solved by new tubes.

I don't have another tube to test my system with, I didn't see drastic voltage differences when I was building the original crack. I did notice one side being a bit louder then the other by a notch or so when I was using the amp, it seemed pretty minor.  Maybe after some burn in the voltage for one side change? ( i only had about 10-20 hours on the stock build.)  I guess it would of been useful to do a voltage check on the amp before I started installing the speedball.

I'm wondering if it would be safe to plug in my phones at this point to test out.
Perhaps the tube will settle to a balanced after some more burn in, or maybe its safer to wait and buy new tubes before I plug anything in?



Offline Grainger49

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Reply #4 on: March 29, 2012, 01:35:02 AM
Yes, observe the normal precaution of waiting to plug in the head sets till the amp is warm.  The output capacitors block the voltage from the headsets.  But a little voltage leaks through during startup.

Just to be sure try measuring for DC voltage on the headphone jack 30 seconds after startup.  If there is no more than a few millivolts you are fine.



Offline PerfectError

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Reply #5 on: March 29, 2012, 09:59:19 AM
I'm getting a slight hiss on my left channel regardless of where the volume is at. The right channel is dead quiet as far as i can tell. I just ordered a few tubes so hopefully it'll fix the problem.

The amps sounds pretty great otherwise. prolly going to keep it off till I receive the tubes.



Offline Grainger49

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Reply #6 on: March 29, 2012, 10:15:36 AM
This is tube rush.  Let the tubes play music for 25-50 hours.  The cathodes need to form so it will most likely go away.



Offline PerfectError

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Reply #7 on: April 03, 2012, 08:48:05 PM
New tubes came in. Voltages at all terminals check out perfectly, and the amp is preforming very well.
I'm liking the speedball upgrade very much.
In addition to the stock tubes I got I'm also using 6AS7G with 12BH7 which is sounding great.
I was trying to burn in the original stock tubes but only got a few hours in, I'll work on them eventually.

Thanks for all the Tech Support, I had no doubt these issues would be resolved, and I'm happy with the results.



Offline Laudanum

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Reply #8 on: April 04, 2012, 12:08:57 AM
Good deal.  Which 12BH7 did you get?

Desmond G.


Offline PerfectError

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Reply #9 on: April 04, 2012, 12:41:19 PM
It



Offline Laudanum

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Reply #10 on: April 05, 2012, 02:02:40 AM
OK, new production.  Havent tried one yet.  If you like the 12BH7 and want to explore you can still find some good deals on NOS if you look (like under 10 dollars - ebay - but worth the risk if it's that cheap).   I like the Sylvanias and the RCA's.  I think there are preferred versions of each but the ones I have all sound good.  I prefer the Sylvanias I think but the RCA's are real good too.  Recently found a relabeled Sylvania that appears to be NOS for 8 dollars if memory serves. I know another member recently snagged one for even less, I think $4.

Desmond G.


Offline Grainger49

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Reply #11 on: April 05, 2012, 02:15:03 AM
I want to wonder out loud here. Do new production tubes need a long burn in time even for regulation? 

I expect even those tubes sold as NOS have been plugged into something and played for verification for a while.  Testing on a tube tester doesn't burn in much. 

I'm just wondering here.  What do you guys think?



Offline Paul Joppa

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Reply #12 on: April 05, 2012, 06:48:06 AM
The known technical part of burn in for tubes is forming the cathode. It's the last step in production, and involves running current through the tube for usually 20 to 200 hours. Before the cathode is fully formed, its emission (peak current capability) is limited and consequently the bias will drift until the process is complete. There is likely to be some excess noise as well. Not all circuits (amplifiers, regulators, followers, etc.) are equally sensitive to this process but it always happens inside the tube.

It happens on a molecular level. The speed of formation depends on the impurities in the (usually nickel) substrate material; the high-purity metal causes the formation process to take longer but the resulting cathode will last much longer as well. If an inadequate job was done at the factory, then you will need more time at home. I have not found any reference to the old-stock question - does the cathode need re-forming after a few decades of rest, even if it was fully formed initially? Anecdotally, it is not uncommon for an old-stock tube to benefit from some burn in. Obviously the process is expensive, tying up tubes and equipment and costing electricity, so manufacturers are motivated to do the minimum necessary.

Of course there may be other, unknown mechanisms at play as well. We hear a lot of things that we can't yet explain!

Paul Joppa


Offline Grainger49

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Reply #13 on: April 05, 2012, 09:28:11 AM
So then NOS that have never been used after production will need burn in unless part of the production process fully formed the cathode.

The same for current production.  They will need burn in unless they were fully formed at the factory.