Bottlehead Forum
Other Gear => Phono => Topic started by: Jim R. on October 09, 2013, 01:14:12 PM
-
I'm considering a dl-103 cart for my TT setup, at least for an audition and I really don't want to spend the bucks for an A23 SUT or Shindo until I know how the sound will work with my system.
I'm guessing that a lot of folks have had good results with the cinemags but which ones would be best for feeding the eros?
Thanks,
Jim
-
I think the DL-103 is a solid selection.
It's spec'd at 0.3mV and wants a load impedance of 100 Ohms. I'd go for more than a 1:10 and less than a 1:36, the 1:18 ratio offered by a 4722 on the 150 Ohm tap looks peachy.
The Cinemag CMQEE-3440AHPC is the modern equivalent. I'd ask for flying leads in the 3/8" bushing can (if they can do it), or at least the 2-bolt mounting system with flying leads.
Don't expect these to be cheap! (If I had to guess, I'd imagine a pair could be more than $200)
-PB
-
Hi Paul,
Thanks for the info. I'll see if any of the peerless can be found but I'll also look into the cinemags. $200 is a deal compared to the a23 and shindo offerings :-).
Time to start poking around...
Thanks,
Jim
-
I used a DL-103 until I wore it out ;D I used a pair of UTC A-11 that sounded very good and didn't cost a lot. 50,000 ohm secondary with a center tap, primary had 50, 200, and 500 ohms available. I used the 200 ohm tap with my Seduction and they worked well together. Will almost certainly be a lot cheaper than the Altecs, which have become very pricey :'(
Robert Lees
-
That's good to know. I sent off for a price quote from Cinemag today so we'll see what they have to say.
-
You can also use a pair of Beyerdynamic Mic transformer, which I'm using at the moment.
You can read about them also on JE's blog.
I've also tried UTC p11.
They both sound good to me.
Ciao!
-
I ran a DL-103 with a DIY SUT using a couple of Sowter 9580s, very happily for a couple of years. See http://www.sowter.co.uk/specs/9580.htm
You can order directly from their web site.
I did not do a comparison to other setups at the time so I really cannot help with relative performance, but it was a good sounding combination.
-
Or you can use a very good headamp and have greater choices once you tire of the standard 103.
-
Hi Mel,
Thanks for that -- I'll have a look at those.
Hey Aaron, the dl-103R is already on the way and I'll probably build a box that has step-up and direct settings as I'm far more likely to go back to MM or MI if I don't stay with the denon, or maybe I'll try a modified 103r at some point.
Still no reply from Cinemag -- is this typical?
One thing about the denon that really appeals is that it looks like a very good match for the kuzma stogi-S arm.
-- Jim
-
Just a caveat. The DL103 is a nice sounding cartridge. But when I compared it to my EMTs it sounds dull and lifeless. So don't assume that it's necessarily a good proxy of what you get with MCs.
A couple of years back Mike LaFevre sold some HK mike transformers supposed to sound very good. You could shoot him an email, maybe he still has a pair.
-
I would be inclined to agree with Xavier. But I don't think you are going to do any better for the price. The really great sounding MCs tend to cost great amounts of cash.
-
Dan said it, the good ones are pricey. The best sounding and nicest cart I've owned was a Lyra Kleos. If you take a moment to consider how much each record play is costing you vs. tip life the choice becomes obvious unless you have a good retipper or money to blow. For me I was happy loosing 5-10% fidelity and found an MM that sounds great to my ears.
I'll tell you that the cantilevers on the Denons suck and bend easy if you are not extremely careful with them. I ran Denons when I first started into vinyl and broke three before giving up on them and the damn arm they were on ;) My problem was being clumsy but being aluminum they don't have much give to them.
-
Yes, I realize that there are plenty of other, probably better choices out there but in general, most MCs I've heard (many lyras, ortofon, clearaudio, allerts, etc.) are just a bit too much of a good thing.
Partially this is based on some feedback from another guy who has the speakers I'm getting who finds hs VDH Frog way too tipped up using his stereomour. Of course tthat's only a rought guide and may not be the situation for my room and associated gear, and ears.
And of course the 103 has been around forever and has a very good rep for being a really musical cart with good dynamics and soundstaging, and for the money it's always in the top tier for value.
Maybe once I get a motor speed controller and a solid brass platter for tthe kuzma, then I can look into moving up to something else, perahaps another ortofon 2m black -- fine MM sound, replaceable stylus/cantilever, etc.
And I still have the SAE 1000LT with the soundsmith level 2 rebuild.
And if worse comes to worse, the denon can find a new home on another table -- maybe for my sister in law.
In other words, I'm not looking for the end-all, be-all cart here, just something that is a good value, with emphasis on musicality without driving me out of the room with too much detail or a hot top end.
-- Jim
P.S. -- I do really appreciate the input - you guys rock!
-
You have entered the money pit which is vinyl playback my friend! Good luck finding your way back! It's a downward spiral with diminishing returns. Best stop while you are ahead and I'm being serious!
-
Well, it's not like I haven't been here before :-). Yes, it pulled me back in... and at least I remember what sounded good to my ears, and I like the MMs more typically warm sound, so we'll see what happens.
-
Jim,
I was comparing my Grado and my old Denon about a year ago. I couldn't decide which I liked the better. Each had its own presentation. On my older albums, the ones I always played with the DL-103C, I liked the Denon better. Maybe it is just because it was the way I remembered them.
Each brought different instruments to the forefront. So I waffled back and fourth till I botched the Denon's cantilever. Despite a report somewhere above this was the original cartridge from the mid 80s. Still in good condition.
-
So, the denon 103R is here and I heard back from Cinemag and ordered a pair of the SUTs that PB recommended above. They are $51 each for standard grade and $75 for the same thing with select grade laminations -- slightly better performance below 200 hz. They also have a much higher end model that cost $175 each.
So, about 4 weeks lead time, by which time I should have my speakers and a couple of small mods to the sr-45 done and ready to go. Now I really must get going on this Eros!
-- Jim
-
Jim,
I'm sitting here snowbound in NE Pennsylvania, listening to Kenny Burrell's 'Cool Cookin' with a chain that includes a DL-103R, a pair of Cinemag 3440A's at the 1:18 turn, 150 ohm tap, to a Seduction with the C4S upgrade, modestly upgraded caps and Russian surplus 6N23P-EB's, and I couldn't be happier. I'll wager that, with the Eros, you'll really enjoy your new setup.
Best,
Mike
-
Hi Mike,
Thanks for that, and given that I have or have had most of what's in your system, that's a pretty meaningful recommendation. I also just got a Merrill mat for my Kuzma table but unfortunately it will now be sometime mid January before my friend can come over and help me get this system setup and the cart aligned.
-- Jim