Bottlehead Forum
Bottlehead Kits => Legacy Kit Products => Foreplay III => Topic started by: J Leng on December 12, 2009, 02:47:12 AM
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My Extended Foreplay 3 has just stopped working on the right channel although it's been working fine for 6 months. The channel gave a few small pops with the music playing, now it only pops.
All the LED on the right channel board are out and one of the A LED on the middle board is out, whilst the other is glowing much brighter. I've swopped the left and right tubes round, but this did nothing, can you help please.
Thanks
Johnathan
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Johnathan, the first thing to do is resistance checks. If the resistances check are correct, within +/-10%, then turn it on and do the voltage checks.
Get the intended readings for both from the "Extended" instructions.
Then post the results that are not what was expected.
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Thanks, as soon as I get time I'll do the checks.
J
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Sounds like it could be a loose connection. First check your cabling. If that is all OK check all the solder joints on the bad channel side with a magnifier. If they all look OK, try reheating them anyway, to reflow the solder.
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Just found the problem one of the wires had broken, soldered it back on and all is fine. Thanks guys!
J
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The fault has been happening on and off for the past 3 weeks now. I've traced a Voltage fault (0v)to pin 12, then Idid a resistance check and this was fine right back to R5, now I'm not sure what to do?
J
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The fault has been happening on and off for the past 3 weeks now. I've traced a Voltage fault (0v) to pin 12, then I did a resistance check and this was fine right back to R5, now I'm not sure what to do?
J
To be certain, you soldered the broken wire back on December 13th and have had an intermittant problem afterward?
Now Terminal 12 which is supposed to be at 150V DC, reads 0V DC when there is a problem?
If so, that is the plate voltage coming into the cathode follower stage for the right channel. There is a jumper from Terminal 21 bringing the voltage over. It then jumps to tube pin 6 of the right channel tube. That would shut off the right channel if there was no voltage coming in.
Check the jumper from T21 to T12. Rewet both ends. Then measure resistance back to T21 from tube pin 6. This method keeps you from applying any force to the suspect terminal while making the measurement.
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I've resoldered the joints and the resisitance is measures 0. I did carry out this procedure before I posted and the channel was still not working.
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If your problem is as described and reiterated by me in my post, reply #6 above, the problem is with the high voltage supply coming from terminal 21. The source of this voltage is the center, octal, tube pin 5. This pin feeds both tubes. Since you do not have a problem with the tube attached to terminal 32 the lack of continuity must be between the octal socket pin 5 and terminal 12.
You did not answer either of the questions I asked so I'm not sure I'm barking up the right tree yet.
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Sorry for not being clear, yes I fixed the wire and had the intermittant problem afterwards and yes terminal 12 is reading 0v when there is a problem.
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Then my "Reply #8" suggestion seems to be a good starting point. If Terminal 21 has 0V when you have the problem it can only come from the terminals I listed. That assumes the Extended doesn't change the measurements at those points. You will have to look back to where the shunt regulator feeds the right channel in the Extended instructions. That is a likely source for your problems.
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The problem is still present, I have resoldered all the joints on the shunt board and the problem is still there. I thought it could be from the right power supply so I swooped the right and left supplys to the shunt board, but the noise was still on the right channel. I have moved the tubes around this hasn't worked, can anyone help?
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Please measure the DC voltage at the following pads on the center PC board on the side with the fault:
"I"
"O"
"k"
Since you have 0v at the output, there is very likely an issue with the C4S portion of that feeds the offending terminal. Since you have swapped B+ feeds from side to side (a very astute action I might add), you have eliminated the power supply as a cause.
I would also set your meter to measure resistance and then check to see that none of the three legs of the MJE350 show a short (do this with the preamp off). It is also possible that the jumper that goes from the "O" pad to the shunt regulator and out to the circuit has somehow broken. It would be most likely that the wire from "O" to the offending channel is the issue, as a bad connection from "O" to the shunt regulator would have you seeing higher voltage than 150.
I hope this helps.
-Paul
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Just a note: Measure resistance after it is unplugged, powered down and wait a minute for the voltage to discharge from the power supply capacitors.
It is a safe habit to get into measuring the power supply voltage before getting into an amplifier. Just get to the biggest caps in it and carefully see if the voltage on the capacitor's terminals is under 30V.
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The Voltage checks are as follows:
I = 228v (when I touched the pin the led that was out lit, as did all the led's on the right board, this state lasted for 5-10 secs)
O = 0v when led's out and 148v when lit
K = 3v led's lit and not lit
I think I was understating the severity of the pops and crackles, they are speaker destroying.
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OK, now measure the voltage on the metal portion of the transistor closest to the "O" pad with the variable reading.
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The Voltage checks are as follows:
I = 228v (when I touched the pin the led that was out lit, as did all the led's on the right board, this state lasted for 5-10 secs)
O = 0v when led's out and 148v when lit
K = 3v led's lit and not lit
I think I was understating the severity of the pops and crackles, they are speaker destroying.
The reading at "I" seems to indicate a solder joint that isn't right. That is, when there is pressure on it you get conduction. Did the LEDs go out while you were still taking the measurement?
I would re-wet all solder joints around this point.
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Rewetted the I joint and no pops for 3hrs, this is the longest it has been silent, also the amp is quieter with less hum. A tentative thank you guys.
J
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Just another thought - check your power line voltage. With an exceptionally high line voltage, the shunt reg board has been known to get too hot.
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Hi guys
I think I'm having the same problem with my extended foreplay after moving the unit. After setting up things were fine but the second time I fired it up (the next day) I got a lot of pops on the left channel although the music was playing fine. I managed to blow the bass driver as a result of the noise and then the channel gave out. I powered the unit down and took a look at the boards, I noticed that one of the LEDs on the bad channel stayed lit long after the power was off.
The weird thing is I changed to my backup speakers to diagnose the problem today and things seem to be fine again. All the LEDs lit up together and turned off at once when the power was down. Within two hours of playing I got one little pop on the channel but nothing else. I left it on for a couple of hours thinking that the problem might come back once the tubes were fully warmed up but it sounds fine. What do you think guys? Was this just a passing issue from moving my foreplay or symptomatic of a problem that might come back?
Thanks!
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That very strongly indicates that you have a cold solder joint somewhere. Check the solder pads around the LEDS and R2 on the side that stayed lit after you turned the preamp off, and also check the connections of the wires from the board to the tube socket to make sure everything actually got soldered. If those connections all have solder on them, reheating them all may very well solve the problem.
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Thanks Doc
Just out of interest, what would cause one of the joints to fail? Would moving it be enough to cause the problem? It all doesn't speak too highly of my soldering skills!
B
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Actually if moving it caused the problem I would guess that it is most likely a joint that was missed altogether at some terminal. That doesn't reflect as negatively on your soldering skill as it does positively on your skill at attaching the lead so it conducts even without solder, which is classic military spec soldering procedure. I recommend a magnifier for inspection.