Bottlehead Forum
Bottlehead Kits => Bottlehead Power Cord Kit => Topic started by: dstrimbu on March 24, 2011, 06:26:24 PM
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OK, I'm sitting here "listening" to my just completed power cord, attached to the Crack, through the HD-600s.
I would have never believed this if I hadn't heard it myself. It's more than a "tone control", Doc. This power cord has made a marked difference in the Crack's soundstage - it's more forward. It's a bit more open, it's brighter - but in a really good way. And if it's possible, the damned thing is quieter. More solid. Wow!
I would have never dreamed... but I'm glad that I bought two kits. :-) The second one will go on my Musical Fidelity M1 DAC.
Bravo! To whomever at Bottlehead mis-ordered that wire - I owe you a beer!
Thanks!
-don
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Thanks so much for the kind words, it's great to find that others are hearing the same things we heard. I do want to mention here that we have only used the power cords on Bottlehead gear and that I didn't really intend to offer it as a universal power cord. So please to heed our conservative current rating if you try it with gear other than Bottlehead gear, i.e. if the DAC draws less than 3A you're probably OK. But don't try one on something like a Pass Labs amp!
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Thanks Doc, I understand the design goal of the power cord - the M1 DAC draws 10 watts max @ 115 volts, so I think that we'll have a > 30x factor of safety or so in this application. :-)
I'm just happy to actually own a system that allows me to hear the difference between power cords. As an engineer, I've always been a bit skeptical of ultra-expensive interconnects - signal, speaker and especially AC cords. But I do understand the relationship between current demand and rise time, and I've read some of the work that Shunyata has published lately concerning this parameter.
http://www.shunyata.com/Content/DTCD.html (http://www.shunyata.com/Content/DTCD.html) And I think that Shunyata has really rocked the market by introducing the Venom 3 at $99.
More importantly - the concept of outbound radiation from each component's power supply, via the power cord, back into other components sharing the same power source. It's clear that twisting and braiding the conductors gave me a lower noise floor. Just amazing, in my opinion.
From an engineering POV, it makes sense. I'm not an EE, so I don't get it all... but it doesn't matter. I can hear it!
-Don
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. . . As an engineer, I've always been a bit skeptical of ultra-expensive interconnects - signal, speaker and especially AC cords. But I do understand the relationship between current demand and rise time, and I've read some of the work that Shunyata has published lately concerning this parameter. . . .
I had problems with this concept as well. However, early on I heard the first high end interconnect, Goldends (from Diskwasher). They made a difference. Better ones down the road made even more.
Kind of makes your head spin. I have amazed some EE friends, I'm one too, with a simple swap in a "passive" piece in my system.
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I've read some of the work that Shunyata has published lately concerning this parameter.
http://www.shunyata.com/Content/DTCD.html (http://www.shunyata.com/Content/DTCD.html) And I think that Shunyata has really rocked the market by introducing the Venom 3 at $99.
More importantly - the concept of outbound radiation from each component's power supply, via the power cord, back into other components sharing the same power source. It's clear that twisting and braiding the conductors gave me a lower noise floor. Just amazing, in my opinion.
From an engineering POV, it makes sense. I'm not an EE, so I don't get it all... but it doesn't matter. I can hear it!
-Don
The guys at Shunyata are friends, who work about 10 minutes from my house. Although it's easy to assume that these cable guys are all charlatans, I have found that Caelin is actually quite a practical and down to earth thinker. I also want to say that I have not measured the radiated field of our power cord, so I must stick with my initial comment that I don't have any solid evidence of what makes our stuff sound better with this cord than with a standard molded IEC cord. It is nice to think that some basic physics rules of thumb are involved and that twisting the wires does have some influence.
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I had problems with this concept as well. However, early on I heard the first high end interconnect, Goldends (from Diskwasher). They made a difference. Better ones down the road made even more.
Kind of makes your head spin. I have amazed some EE friends, I'm one too, with a simple swap in a "passive" piece in my system.
Grainger,
I have three interconnects that I use - a bunch of AudioQuest ~2004-vintage Copperheads; several pair of AudioQuest BlackMamba IIs (from Audio Advisor in G. Rapids. MI) and a couple of lengths of Nordost Blue Heaven RCAs.
I drive the Crack from the tape outs of my McIntosh integrated... and what better way to test interconnect "voicing" than via a set of headphones?
Well, speaking of shocking revelations... this test is a killer. By simply swapping the input cable to the Crack, I hear...:
- The AQ Copperheads have the most neutral sound, tonally - but they are a bit "pinched" in the midrange...
- The AQ/AA Black Mamba IIs are more biased toward the low end, with quick, solid bass and a slightly restrained high end...
- The Nordost Blue Heavens were almost un-listenable at first; tending to be thin and shrill in the upper midrange... but after several hundred hours, they have smoothed dramatically. They tend toward the high end, for sure; I do believe that bass weight suffers a bit with these cables...
OK, I feel better now. Both you and Doc are telling me that I'm not totally crazy...
Thanks, guys. Enjoy your Sunday!
-don
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I'm right there with you guys. I've noticed powercords make a notable difference, as well as interconnects. It usually depends on the gear, but I typically make ICs out of Cardas wire as it typically sounds a bit warmer than other cable. I think it may be attributable to the individually enamelled strands, so when you have say 50 strands of differing gauges all isolated from one another, the slight difference between the signal in all these strands over the length of the cable causes a slight smearing effect which the human ear may perceive as warmth. Just a guess on my part, but it seems logical :)
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Grainger,
I have three interconnects that I use - a bunch of AudioQuest ~2004-vintage Copperheads; several pair of AudioQuest BlackMamba IIs (from Audio Advisor in G. Rapids. MI) and a couple of lengths of Nordost Blue Heaven RCAs.
I drive the Crack from the tape outs of my McIntosh integrated... and what better way to test interconnect "voicing" than via a set of headphones?
Well, speaking of shocking revelations... this test is a killer. By simply swapping the input cable to the Crack, I hear...:
- The AQ Copperheads have the most neutral sound, tonally - but they are a bit "pinched" in the midrange...
- The AQ/AA Black Mamba IIs are more biased toward the low end, with quick, solid bass and a slightly restrained high end...
- The Nordost Blue Heavens were almost un-listenable at first; tending to be thin and shrill in the upper midrange... but after several hundred hours, they have smoothed dramatically. They tend toward the high end, for sure; I do believe that bass weight suffers a bit with these cables...
OK, I feel better now. Both you and Doc are telling me that I'm not totally crazy...
Thanks, guys. Enjoy your Sunday!
-don
I have been using wires as a final tone balance control. I find the tubes I like best first, then the caps that sound best with them and the wire that gives the last balance adjustment. Well, that is my system anyway.
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Have you found a source for right angle IEC plugs? It seem the way to go with the top mounted IEC plug.
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Have you found a source for right angle IEC plugs? It seem the way to go with the top mounted IEC plug.
I did a search at Mouser. I found three right angle, male IEC plugs. The prices are $4.20 to $8.36 rated eitehr 10A or 16A. They all have the cord exiting to the right if the ground is at the top and viewed as looking into the female on the amp. I found them under the Power product category and went from there.
Here is one:
Female IEC (http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Schurter/47330000/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMv1TUPJeFpwblxZ%252bgbqW48r%2fepA0viBiSw%3d)
Hey! That even opened up like I wanted it to.
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Thanks!
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I believe!
There is a definite improvement with these power cords. Music is more open and seems to be quieter. using it on my Eros and Extended Foreplay III. I just ordered another one for my DIY amp.
Thanks Bottlehead
Debra
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I got on the power cable bandwagon long ago and never looked back. Despite the controversy, they really can make an audible difference, so I'm not at all surprised to read about what the Bottlehead guys (and girl) have discovered with their extra wire.
- The Nordost Blue Heavens were almost un-listenable at first; tending to be thin and shrill in the upper midrange... but after several hundred hours, they have smoothed dramatically. They tend toward the high end, for sure; I do believe that bass weight suffers a bit with these cables...
I've heard this a bunch of times before about Nordost. This is why I got a Hagtech Frybaby a long time ago. I know cable burn-in is even more controversial than the cable topic by itself, but what can I tell you... And now that I'm building Bottlehead kits it sure is nice to have the Frybaby to hook up to various capacitor upgrades for a week or so prior to installation.
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I got on the power cable bandwagon long ago and never looked back. Despite the controversy, they really can make an audible difference, so I'm not at all surprised to read about what the Bottlehead guys (and girl) have discovered with their extra wire.
[Edited out quote]
I've heard this a bunch of times before about Nordost. This is why I got a Hagtech Frybaby a long time ago. I know cable burn-in is even more controversial than the cable topic by itself, but what can I tell you... And now that I'm building Bottlehead kits it sure is nice to have the Frybaby to hook up to various capacitor upgrades for a week or so prior to installation.
See, we need smiley face icons here so I can put in the ROTFLAMO smiley in here. Yes, I think that wire of any kind can set off all kinds of controversy. But here you won't see flaming like in some other forums. Friendliest forum out there!
Mr.Lin, do I recognize your moniker from AK?
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I admit to being somewhat skeptical at first but now I am a convert. I just finished assembling three power cord kits and for comparisons sake I put one on my Paramount pair and left the other with the original power cord. I can't find the words to accurately describe what I am hearing, but the amp with the BH power cord definitely seems much improved. I tried several test recordings and switched the channels and the quality definitely stayed with the BH cord. I am sold, I will be buying new cords now with every kit I purchase this year.
Great result from a purchasing error!
Thanks Doc; for great products!
Cheers;
Mike
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I just have to chime in here. It is true that all cables make a difference in a system(for better or worse). For whatever reason some cables sound better in some systems. Of course, there are a variety of reasons for this and I don't want to get into all of that now. Suffice it to say that what sounds best to you is ALWAYS the right choice. Being more of an experimenter than anything else, I tried a 'no no'. It is about 19ga. silver plated copper wire. There is a solid, small gauge speaker cable with really thin insulation that is remarkable. Because I am using balanced power, I am only asking it to handle 60V per conductor on a piece of equipment that draws less than 3 amps. Seem overboard to use more than this, but I never judge until I've tried something first. So far, I like it but am always open to suggestions.
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I was sold on upgraded power cables when I made one out of Romex, as a experiment. To my surprise, it made a big difference (mostly for the worse). If your not convinced, try this cheap experiment.
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I had wondered about Romex since it goes all around my house in the walls. Thanks for the report. I already believe in upgraded wires, you saved me from doing the experiment.
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Actually that was not the result I expected, being that solid core wire is generally preferred in most applications. The test cable was braided, and even shielded, and the results were definitely negative. This surprised quite a bit. I'm now using CAT5, single strands several per connection twisted and shielded. The results are very noticeable.
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I guess that accounts for 3 feet of good cable making a difference when you have 30 to 100 feet of Romex between the service panel and your outlet.
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Very interesting story on the birth of the BH power cord! I am a firm believer in the DIY cable/cord concept. I just havent bit on it - yet. I have used my same cables for years. Possibly when I get "done" tweaking other stuff. Great food for thought though! I'm sure that when I'm breathing my last breath I will be thinking "wait there is just this one last tweak"!
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Just a head's up here... I bought 6 of these and they just arrived:
I did a search at Mouser. I found three right angle, male IEC plugs. The prices
are $4.20 to $8.36 rated eitehr 10A or 16A. They all have the cord exiting to the
right if the ground is at the top and viewed as looking into the female on the amp.
Unfortunately, either they screwed up my order or these are not the correct part -- these are meant for the other kind of chassis mount IEC socket, not the ones BH uses -- these connectors have male pins and a boot that covers them when inserted in the chassis receptacle.
Can anybody confirm this and/or tell me a part number for what I want -- what is the same kind that BH uses for their cable kit? I can't see the pics in the catalog and most of these online electronic parts places don't have very detailed descriptions of what the parts actually are unless they refer you to a drawing or picture.
I've got a couple of cables I want to reterminate with right anbgles for convenience and to save space and stress on the cable and inlet.
Thanks,
Jim
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Can anybody confirm this and/or tell me a part number for what I want -- what is the same kind that BH uses for their cable kit? I can't see the pics in the catalog and most of these online electronic parts places don't have very detailed descriptions of what the parts actually are unless they refer you to a drawing or picture.
i just built up some cables using some Schurter 4784 right angle female IEC 15A.
I believe these are the same ones used for the bottlehead kit, if not, they are very close to the same and fit the receptacles in my crack and seduction. I found the plastic fit slightly loose in the receptacle that ships with the kits, a bit of single wall heatshrink around the end makes it fit a bit tighter.
I got mine from Take Five Audio for $5.29 but im sure you can find them elsewhere.
http://www.takefiveaudio.com/mall/shopexd.asp?id=269 (http://www.takefiveaudio.com/mall/shopexd.asp?id=269)
I just built up 2 cables using these with some belden 19364. I have to say i was amazed at the difference it made... i wasn't expecting it to change the sound that much but it was definitely noticeable. I made them for the right angle plugs but am going to make these cables mandatory for future builds.
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Jim,
I too am on the list of those that bought before the price increase. I ordered 3, nice even number.
MCM sells two kinds of right angled IEC cord connectors, one like you got by mistake and one like what you needed. I'll dig up a link and post/email it to you.
I think I was looking at the wrong one for a while and finally saw it was a right angled male not a female. I find that one odd, that leaves voltage on the prongs that you could touch. It isn't safe if it is used as I think it would be used.
I don't see a problem for me using the right angled IEC as I will also need to put in a chassis IEC connector/fuse in the back of my Paramour bases. I can put it in whatever orientation I need. Now where did I leave that square hole saw?
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Andrew,
thanks, I'll pick some of those up and return these other ones.
Grainger, no worries, I'll just get the ones Andrew pointed to. No biggie.
BTW, I didn't order any cables -- the one I have is the one that came with my Stereomour -- IIRC.
-- Jim
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Ok, looks like there are two flavors of this connector -- the 4784.000 which is rated for 10 amps an 18 gauge wire -- I believe this is the one BH is using. Then there is the 4874.010 which is the 15 amp version and which takes up to 14 gauge wire.
Nobody seems to stock the .010 version but lots of places have the .000 version. Guess I should look for a different manufacturer as the cables I want to reterminate are 14 gauge.
Just thought I'd report back with what I found.
-- Jim
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Funny thing about power cord connectors, i.e. the male plug. The hole in each prong came from long ago when the receptacle had a 'tit' to capture the hole and hold it in place. But of course things are different now, with a firm grip given by the receptacle. The hole remains however. So, when looking for a male end, I try to get one without the hole. Only PS Audio uses this design in commercial cords as far as I know. The connection is just as important as the carrier(wire) in my opinion.
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Greg,
I agree, and I often even polish the prongs for a better connection -- and this is also one important reason why I like the Jena Labs 20 amp hubbel outlets -- they have greater surface area on the contacts, and have a dethgrip on the male blades.
-- Jim
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I often even polish the prongs for a better connection -- and this is also one important reason why I like the Jena Labs 20 amp hubbel outlets -- they have greater surface area on the contacts, and have a dethgrip on the male blades.
I was having some strange problems a couple of months ago with one of my components. After a few days of trouble shooting, I ended up taking a very fine file to the IEC prongs of the component and all worked well from then on. You would think with this unusually dry climate that that would be the last problem...maybe it's the dust!
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When I lived in AZ, I thought that I was off the hook concerning metal problems like rust. I soon found that my steel tools were pitting from the pollution in the air. My lungs as well, reacteed. Now I live in WY, and my lungs and tools like it better. Even rubber bands have a life here. My point is that I feel that once polished a contact may benefit from a contact enhancer/protector.
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I just found a page from an MCM catalog I tore out. They have two styles of 90 degree IEC females for the ends of power cords. One has the cable come out 90 degrees to the short side of the plug, the other comes out 90 degrees from the wide side of the plug. The part numbers are 28-11500 and 28-11510 respectively.
Both are 10A rated, have screw terminals and a strain relief.
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My Power Cord kits came yesterday. If things quiet down I will get the assembled and into the system. I'm awfully eager!
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I received mine yesterday also and finished them with Carlene's braiding help. I look forward to trying them out. I shortened mine by a couple of feet. Be careful when you shrink the tubing. I came close to melting the wire casing!
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Yes, Tech-Flex doesn't like the heat, keep it out of the Kitchen too!
Ok, made my first power cord yesterday got to listen this morning with fresh ears.
I, too, have a problem with melting the Tech-Flex, and with the heat shrink too. The heat shrink curled back on itself, glue side up, as I tried to apply just a little heat to the edge innermost, on top of the Tech-Flex. It finally laid back down but I Boogered the Tech-Flex. I'm going to try something different on the next one.
I twisted the first red/white pair and started on the second pair. The first one unraveled some so I left the second pair to "set" for half an hour. All was well with that one and I went back and fixed the first one, set it, and moved on to the black pair. I think keeping the wires under tension between the clamp and drill sets the windings. At least it seem to for me.
I put the new cord on my Eros and fired it up. Played the same three songs from FM/FM several times making notes. Then went back to the stock cord and back to the new power cord. I figured that while everything was just warming up it would sound worse, then the stock cord wouldn't get the short end of the stick, so to speak.
Conclusions:
I'm going to get more. I will build another for the FP 2 after yard work this afternoon.
Say You Love Me has a banjo on the left channel. It is just a very subtle accent. I also hear a guitar lick that I don't remember. The banjo is not even there with the stock cord and the new guitar line is buried in the mix.
The guitars in Landslide are distinct images. The low lines are on the right the high line on the left. It could be a classical guitar for the low parts but is definitely a 6 string acoustic on the left.
The stock cord doesn't localize images nearly as well. The bass is muddy in comparison, not as easy to follow John McVee's lines.
All in all this is worth the price! I have an experiment for the next cord. Pictures to follow.
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I enjoy building power cords as well Grainger, but my problem is usually finding a female end that has the best grip/construction. One thing I used to do was buy both ends that were 20 amp. types. The difference is in the 'bite'. Of course, that means you get to change out any recepticle on the equipment you are using to 20 amp. as well. I think that it is worth it. On the other hand, if you have found the cord you will live with forever, why not just hardwire it in?
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I built a shielded Power Cord for my Foreplay. I had some braided shield so why not? Here is the link:
http://www.bottlehead.com/smf/index.php/topic,2890.new.html#new