Bottlehead Forum
Bottlehead Kits => Legacy Kit Products => Stereomour => Topic started by: rlyach on February 12, 2013, 05:40:24 PM
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Well, my kit arrived and so far I have spent the last couple of days prepping the transformers. I am going for a clean look. I used scotch brite, then 000 steal wool, then a buffing wheel. I also painted the power transformer laminations gloss black. Now I can start the actual build. I can't wait to hear it.
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Randy,
They look like a satin finish. Really nice!
To keep them that way spray some clear on top. The metal used for end bells will rust over time. I'm not sure that the chokes have the same problem.
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Thanks for the heads up. Unfortunately this is closer to a mirror finish (very smooth) and when I tried to clear coat it the paint beaded up and looked awful. I have settled on a hard coat of wax. Since I live in AZ where the humidity is very low I think this should be enough.
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Excellent work Randy!
What other upgraded parts are you putting in? I'd suggest upgrading the pot to at leat an Alps. I find those STP's hard to rewire. Those screws that hold the OT/choke are little short.
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Yes, I notice the screws were a little short, but I have a large collection of screws in my garage. I did not want to finagle in power supply chokes so I settled in on Mills 12W matched resistors for the power supply and cathode bias. I will go with a single resistor sized for the 2A3 (270 ohm for the power supply and 1200 ohms for the cathode bias). That way I should get better matching between channels. I have also purchased a set of Jantzen Superior Z-Caps for the coupling and parafeed caps. I have read a lot of reviews and these were very highly rated. I did not want to spend the money for the Mundorf silver in oil caps. I had not considered the pot. I assume you are referring to the volume pot and not the hum balance pots. I will look to see if I can get one quickly. If not, I may just go with the kit. I will measure the pot I have to see how well matched the left and right channels will be. If you have a part number for the alps POT I would greatly appreciate it. I forgot to mention that I also purchased a matched set of JJ 2A3-40's :)
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I get my pots from mouser. They're the 'pcb' mount type but I have a 3-island pcb that I cut and mount the pot on it. It's hard to find Alps with eyelets. Ebay has them but most are fake.
http://www.mouser.com/Search/m_ProductDetail.aspx?ALPS/RK27112A00AK/&qs=sGAEpiMZZMtC25l1F4XBUyOcKw5CnqLBt7NWCgOxelA=
For a neater build, I put heat-shrink wrap on the tip of each stripped wire.
I also upgraded all electrolytics in the PS to 105C panasonics. Areas around the power resistors can get very hot especially in mine because it is configured for 45 use. My coupling are vcaps, parafeed mundorf.
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Thanks for the part number. I will measure my pot when I get home. Perhaps this will be a future upgrade. It does not seem too difficult to change in the future.
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Just for fun I measured the audio taper that came with the kit and I bought a Radio Shack Alps audio taper and compared them. The results are attached. As you can see, the BH supplied POT gives more error at very low volumes. What really surprised me was the mismatch error between the channels. I guess I expected better matching. Which POT should I use?
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Nope, the below post is not reading the graphs right. I don't see where tracking, measuring the right channel versus the left channel is depicted. What matters is the the two channels read similar or the same at a given setting on the pot. The absolute resistance is irrelevant.
RS seems to track much better at the bottom and goes whacky at 80%. The point would be channel to channel tracking. Unless you expect to play above the 3:00 position the better tracking is the RS pot.
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Grainger,
What do people think about the gold point mini-V stepped attenuator? It is very expensive but I imagine the tracking is much better.
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Yes, higher priced products all are better tracking devices. Do a search on Goldpoint mini-V and you will find a number of posts. The best pot in my house is an Alps Black Beauty, no longer made.
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I have just started on my build as well and am very interested in this discussion, as I know next to nothing about these components.
A friend has offered me a 24-step attenuator similar to this one left over from another project:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/24-Step-Volume-Control-500K-A-Dale-resistor-Stereo-/220950860306?_trksid=p3284.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA%252BUA%252BFICS%252BUFI%26otn%3D21%26pmod%3D330684912924%26ps%3D54
Apparently these track perfectly left-to-right. Is that true? Would it be an upgrade from the volume control provided in the kit? Would I be better off with an Alps unit?
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The stock volume control is not a bad control at all! Especially with the Stereomour, which is for speakers. Poor tracking at low volume settings is most noticeable with headphones. Every record I play has a slightly different center image. They all move +/- a foot from dead center. So even with perfect tracking you would need a balance control to recenter the image for each recording if that is most important to you.
It seems to be most important to my brother. When he listens he keeps asking me to adjust the balance so soloists are dead center. I have come to tell him that he gets one centering per listening session. Then he has to live with whatever balance the recording engineer recorded. I think he was just trying to aggravate me by making me tweak the balance. He is my younger brother.
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Well, the engineer in me finally won out. I could not live with the mismatch error. So, I ordered a Goldpoint mini-V and a Goldpoint selector switch. I hope to preserve the signal integrity as far as possible. Since I went to the trouble of getting matching resistors, caps, and tubes, to skimp on the attenuator seems wrong. This is my first build and I hope to get many years of listening out of this system. Thanks for all the help and advice.
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Get the knobs too since they're different from the stock. The goldpt uses 6mm while the stock is 1/4.
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jimiclow,
Thanks for the info. I ordered a couple of knobs as well. I was not aware of the size difference. :)
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It is unclear to me what exactly is being plotted, so I can't comment on that.
However, I will say that a major virtue of switched attenuators is that they have excellent tracking. Normal pots are quite poor; linear ones claiming 10% and audio-taper usually being worse. Premium pots specifically intended for audio rarely spec better than 5%. But switched attenuators almost always use 1% resistors.
The disadvantage of switched attenuators is cost. Reliable switches are expensive, and switches with many positions are likewise expensive; the combination of both is expensive indeed. Goldpoint products seem costly relative to potentiometers, but among available switched attenuators their products are remarkably affordable.
In our experience, even cheap switch contacts have no sonic problems - even the crappiest switch sounds good as long as it continues to work at all. This does not appear to be the case for the sliding contacts of potentiometers, though there is little available data beyond anecdotal evidence of the form "brand A sounds better than brand B."
None of the above addresses the effects of the resistive element. There, you get into subjective assessments that don't correlate well with things that are measured and/or quoted in specifications. A search of the web will provide a variety of opinions ... :^)
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Paul,
Thanks for weighing in. The graph shows channel to channel matching over the entire resistance range of the kit POT and an RS Alps POT. I set the pot and measured the resistance of each channel and then moved on to the next measurement point. The % error is the difference between the channels as calculated against the average of the channels. The db error is calculated assuming a 2V signal and looking at the Vout error of the pot. At very low values of resistance (high volume) the error is small in the db scale. At low volume levels a large % mismatch will lead to a large db difference between the left and right channels. I hope I explained the graph adequately.
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None of the above addresses the effects of the resistive element. There, you get into subjective assessments that don't correlate well with things that are measured and/or quoted in specifications. A search of the web will provide a variety of opinions ... :^)
Yes. The Goldpoint populated with Dale resistors is fairly widely regarded to sound better than the miniV with surface mount resistors. I imagine the resistance value tolerances are similar. And I concur based upon our recent adventures designing the BeeQuiet attenuator, the resistor type seems to have a lot more influence upon the sound than the switch contact material. Of course then there is the added twist of which form of attenuator is chosen, series, ladder, shunt, etc. Like anything else in audio you can analyze this stuff into the ground and still never have a clue about what sounds good until you actually start cutting, trying, and listening. And of course like anything else on the internet there is an excess of opinion on the subject and a startling percentage of those opinions posted are from insane people. Which I see as all the more reason to just buy some parts and try stuff myself.
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Hey Randy-
Perhaps it's the residual of Valentine's dinner :^) (yes, homemade wine was involved...), but this is still not clear to me.
Assuming R1 is the series part of the pot resistance, and R2 is the shunt to ground, then if I understand you correctly:
"% error" = 2*(R2A-R2B)/(R2A+R2B)
However, the absolute resistance is not the same as the attenuation of the pot.
I still don't know what exactly is the "Vout error" that goes into the dB calculation.
Vout/Vin=R2/(R1+R2)
and there is no consideration of R1 in the above "% error" expression. I would suggest that:
dB error = 20*log10(R2A/(R1A+R2A)) - 20*log10(R2B/(R1B+R2B))
but I can't tell whether that is what you used.
I know this is a picky and technical question, but I sense that you are a technically inclined person, so I am pursuing it - let me know if I am getting overbearing; it's something I am unfortunately prone to do!
best,
-Paul J.
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Paul,
The percent error calculation I used is exactly the same as what you showed. The db error that I calculated is the db difference between the channels with respect to the intended db attenuation. I simply took the intended attenuation and multiplied by the percent error. The way I did it may not be the correct way to look at the db error. Your formula shows the db difference between channel A and channel B, which seems simpler and more straight forward. Here is another plot of db mismatch plotted against the average db attenuation rather than resistance. It shows that the BH supplied POT is better than the RS pot. Unfortunately I did not take more high resistance readings on the RS pot so I can't see its performance at very low volumes. I will repeat this study once I get my Goldpoint attenuator, and I will make sure I add enough data to fill the entire range.
Thanks for the help. I am not an audio engineer so I am still making sense of all this. Most of my experience is with integrated circuit design and manufacturing. I don't mind in the least that you are pushing me. I love learning and find amplifier circuits fascinating. Thanks for the help.
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Now I get to be embarrassed. After looking at my data I realized that audio pots are NOT symmetrical.... I confused R1 and R2. Here is the comparison again using the proper POT orientation. Now it is very clear that the POT shipped with my kit is better than the POT that I purchased at Radio Shack. Also, the standard POT only has a max mismatch error of .65db, and only at very low levels. This has been very educational.
Update: The graph has been updated with new and complete data.
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Well... I am waiting for my attenuator and switch to come in so I have had to stop. Here is my progress so far. This kit is really fun to build. The manual instructions are very easy to follow. I love the high resolution pictures. You can zoom way in to look for more detail.
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Looks good!
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Randy, are you sure you don't want to go the 45 route?;D You can still put a 2A3 in a 45 amp.
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Jimiclow,
At the risk of displaying my ignorance and starting another long discussion, I will say that I chose to wire for the 2A3 because of power. I will be driving a pair of Orca speakers and wanted the extra 2 Watts or so. I did look at the bias point of the 45 setup and it was a little confusing to me. I measured the DC resistance of the plate choke red wire to the black wire. It read ~260 ohms. Based on my calculations, that puts the bias point at 57V on the cathode and 35mA of plate current. Assuming the same ~4K load from the output transformer I calculate a max of 2.5 Watts at 4.9% distortion. I have already purchased a pair of JJ 2A3-40's (match) just for this amp, so I don't think I will switch to 45's.
Do the 45's really sound better. From a purely design perspective (from an admitted novice), the specs seem the same or slightly lower at a lower power output. Also, If I wire for the 45 and put 2A3's in the amp, the bias current will be only ~35mA and the usable range of the plate voltage will drop by about 50V. It will also reduce the output power as compared to the 2A3 wiring.
Now I am waiting for the someone with more experience to set me straight. :)
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Assuming the same ~4K load from the output transformer I calculate a max of 2.5 Watts at 4.9% distortion.
Now compare the sound pressure levels available from your Orcas with 2.5 watts vs. 3.5 watts.
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That would be an interesting test, but Blumenstein Audio does not publish any sound pressure vs power data. They conservatively spec the Orca sensitivity at 89dB at 1Watt and 1Meter. Just for clarity, I calculated the 2A3 maximum power output at 4.4 Watts as compared to the calculated 2.5 Watts for the 45s. These calculations were based on the published plate curves for the respective tubes. Also, this number uses the full swing of the tube which includes 0V bias, and that is not a good place to operate, so it is better to compare the output power using the specs published for the two different tubes used in the Stereomour, which are 1.75 Watts vs 3.5 Watts. Those are the numbers that drove my decision.
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You can calculate the difference in SPL without knowing the efficiency of the speaker.
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...and it's close to 3dB, which is audible but - shall we say? - not huge. I'd go with the 2A3 myself for Orcas.
Yes, by the way, the available power is in theory a bit greater than what we quote, or what is quoted in the spec sheets. Chalk it up to the transformer losses, about 10% (0.5dB).
Also, the RCA standard (250v, 60mA, 2500 ohm load) is 3.5 watts and I don't want to quote a higher number, people will just think I'm exaggerating. But in fact, at 300v/50mA into 4000 ohms, the theoretical efficiency is around 20% greater - very close to your 4.4 watts in fact.
For what it's worth, there are two "standards" for power. One is the power at clipping, defined as a barely visible flat top to the sine wave output, the other usually as 5% THD. Neither is all that precise, since with no feedback the linearity of the individual tube has a large effect.
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. . . Blumenstein Audio does not publish any sound pressure vs power data. They conservatively spec the Orca sensitivity at 89dB at 1Watt and 1Meter. . . .
I'm running my Orcas on "3.5 Watt" (quotes because of Paul) Paramours. I'm in front of them now, my RS meter says they are playing at the mid 80sdBA. Much louder than I want to listen. I do think that Blumenstein is conservative. Maybe more like 83-85dBW. In the 90dBA range OSHA requires ear protection. I require no one to wear ear plugs in the listening room.
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Paul,
Thanks for all the information. I feel better about deciding to use 2A3's. If you actually get closer to 4 Watts out of the 2A3's then the SPL difference is actually closer to 4db instead of 3 :). Incidentally, While I was calculating my load lines for the respective tubes I think I came across another advantage of the parafeed design. The musical impedance that the tube sees is a sum of the resistance of output transformer, the reactance of the output transformer and the reactance of the parafeed capacitor. Since the reactance of the cap is 1/(2*pi*f*C) and the reactance of the output transformer is (2*pi*f*L), the parafeed cap's impedance will decrease with frequency and the output transformer impedance will increase with frequency. These seem to act together to give a more stable tube load line over frequency. Maybe I am over analyzing all this. I will use my LCR meter on the various components tonight and see if the numbers add up.
Grainger,
Thanks for the info on the Orcas. I assume the RS meter is a Radio Shack sound pressure meter. How far was the meter away from the speakers when you made the measurement? This might give us some idea as to the effeciency of the Orca's in a listening environment.
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Randy,
Yes, a vintage Radio Shack analog SPL meter. It was about 12' from the speakers. Let's see if I have a hosted image of the Orcas from my listening La-Z-Boy?
Yup:
(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi244.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fgg7%2FGrainger49%2FIMG_1337_zps71c528a6.jpg&hash=0bbd396951a21875172387a27b35e53cb5e9ffb9)
Short legs and short fat (wide) feet. My ears are at least 12' from the Orcas and as you see they are way away from any reflecting surfaces.
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Wow... That calculates to 95 db at 1 meter. If we knew the power level you were listening to we could actually calculate efficiency. We could roughly get that number if we knew the attenuation setting and the max power of the amp. Very nice system and listening setup by the way...
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You can't do that kind of 1 meter vs. 4 meters calculation based upon an in-room measurement. You have to take the driver outside or into an anechoic chamber to get values that you can rely upon. In room readings will be higher at a distance than anechoic measurements. PJ can give you the rundown regarding the reverberant field, etc. in remarkable detail. Of course this is a good thing when you are using low power amps and medium sensitivity speakers.
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Randy, you are quite right about the load impedance. A well-chosen parafeed capacitor/plate choke combination keeps the load impedance seen by the tube close to resistive, to a much lower frequency than would be the case with a series feed transformer of the same inductance. This is in fact how I arrived at the rule of thumb for parafeed capacitance (2*L/(R*R)). It permits greater power and lower distortion in the deepest bass. Of course, it also assumes a resistive speaker impedance at those frequencies - not always an accurate assumption!
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My Goldpoint attenuator came in so I can continue my build. Unfortunately my Orcas will not be here for at least another week, so I won't be able to enjoy the system until then. Here is the final plot of attenuator data. The Goldpoint has virtually ZERO tracking error. In fact the resistors matched so well that the largest mismatch error was only .004db.
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Hi Randy - I am waiting for my kit and have appreciated reading about your progress.
Do you mind telling me what value you ordered for the Goldpoint Stepped attenuator? I would like to get one and some knobs but am not such a newbie to this, I am not sure how to calculate the startgin value.
Thanks,
drew.
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Drew,
I just ordered the same value that the kit shipped with, 100K. I also ordered the smallest (1.1 inch) knobs. I think they look great. By the way, I finished my build today and everything works. I only had a pair of cheap RCA 5" two way speakers to play it through until my new Orca's arrive, but even with these inefficient $50 speakers, it sounded amazing. I will post a picture of the top side once my Orca's and the base arrive from Blumenstein Audio. Here is the underside. You can see some of the upgrades, including caps, resistors, the volume pot, and selection switch. I could not be happier with this amp. One thing that surprised me was my hum adjustment actually read 0.0mV on both channels. No hum at all.
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Nice Job, looks great and nice to hear it worked the first time. - I'll likely get the GP before I get the kit but wait on Cap upgrades. I want to see If I can actually hear a difference in the caps after I have listened for awhile.
I also appreciate hearing that it sounded good with your cheapie speakers, I have no worries this amp will drive my Green Mountain's adequately.
What do you have planned next?
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Randy,
That is beautiful work. It is so neat it looks like a military piece of equipment. It makes my first Bottlehead build look awful.
I took my time and built my Eros over a week's time. It got a full treatment of heat shrinked STP ends with different colors for right and left. I built stock to begin with. Now I have trouble taking it out of the system to put in some upgrades I bought. I just love listening to it too much.
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Thanks for the compliments on the build. The instructions deserve most of the credit. I just took my time. I also wanted to mention that the voltages came in very close to the expected values. The 2A3 cathodes were both right at 61 volts. The 2A3 plates were both exactly 360V. The B+ was 388V on both left and right channels. I also noticed that the plate voltages of the triodes in the 12AT7 did not match exactly. One was 214V and the other was 207V. I suspect the difference is because the 300K bias resistors in the C4S board did not match exactly. This wont matter though as the flat load line will keep the tubes output swing the same, and since they are AC coupled to the power stage the DC difference will not matter (correct me if I am wrong). It is very gratifying to see that the voltages matched the calculations and the simulations I ran using the published plate curves for the JJ tubes. Thanks again for all the encouragement. I think I may try and build the Toad guitar amp next. I thought about building speakers but I am not much of a wood worker.
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One was 214V and the other was 207V. I suspect the difference is because the 300K bias resistors in the C4S board did not match exactly.
That voltage difference is a matter of different emission from each triode of the 12AT7.
You could alter the 300K resistors to be 250K-350K and you'll still see the same plate voltages you have now.
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Randy,
Glad you got it done and it sounds good so far. Just wait until you get those Orcas, and by the time the Orcas have their full break-in time, the amp too should be well seasoned and I'm predicting you're going to be amazed at what you hear. The JJs are really great tubes and you have to spend a whole lot more to better them, and even then, no telling how much of an improvement it may be to your ears. Plus they're built like tanks and are run well under their dissipation limits so they should last a very long time.
-- Jim
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Thanks for the info on the 12AT7. I wonder if you can get one that has matched triodes? Yes, the JJ's are very nice tubes. The glass is very thick and the tubes look nice as well. One more piece of data. I used the min/max function of my DMM to measure the peak output voltage into my 8 ohm speakers at full volume. I measured 5.93V p-p. That calculates to 4.39 Watts of peak power from this amp. I realize this is a simplistic way of looking at it but it does match my simulation and hand calculations very well. I may get ambitious and hook up a sine wave generator to the input and measure the output for power and distortion. Thanks again for all the help understanding the inner workings of this amp. I have really enjoyed the building process.
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Just ask for/look for a tube with matched sections. That said, I think you'll be very hard pressed to hear a difference with the tube you have.
-- Jim
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"Matched" tubes can mean a whole lot of things. You can turn the volume knob all the way up, then put 60Hz of tone into the amp input, then measure the AC voltage at 4 and 12 to see how well the tube is gain matched.
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Replying to your earlier post - I want to build some speakers too, likely Full range in a Transmission Lline - too bad you are not in the Bay area, I am more of a wood worker than analog elec. guy, so I could help you with the speakers and you could help me with all this other stuff.
There are some kits that let you buy the wood pre-cut, so all you have to do is assemble. At any rate, let me know when you want to get started and I will offer any advice that I can.
drew.
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The plate voltages of the 12AT7 are unusually close together already. Normal tubes will vary +/-30% or so - the circuit is designed to accommodate this variation. (Transistors are much worse, the gain of the 2N2907A for instance is between 50 and 300...)
The output tube has some DC feedback in the form of the cathode bias resistor, which more tightly controls its operating point. The bypass capacitor removes teh feedback at audio frequencies.
One of the unique things about SET designs is that they generally do not use negative feedback, at least in the audio band. This makes them more susceptible to parts variations, and to various sources of noise and distortion - but it also makes them sound more natural, at least to the ears of very many observers.
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Drew,
I was also looking at building a full range single driver using a fostex 4" driver. I also looked at the available kits but it is hard to find high efficiency drivers. This is why I ordered the Orcas in the first place. The added benefit of the Orcas is that Blumenstein also sells bases for the Stereomour that match the speakers. This helps the wife acceptance factor ;D.
Paul,
After looking at what is available in balanced 12AT7's, my 3.3% difference is indeed looking pretty good. I am amazed that everything else in my amp matches to less than 1V. I did go to the extra trouble of measuring all my components and using them in the A or B side in order to keep the total DC resistance identical. I got within one ohm through the choke, the hum circuit, and the cathode circuit. I am also glad I purchased the Goldpoint Attenuator. The sound is smooth and matched all the way down to low listening levels. I also do not hear any switch noise while changing the level. This was probably an extravagant upgrade but I am glad I did it.
Randy
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My Blumenstein base arrived but I am still waiting for the Speakers. Here is the amp from the top. I really like the dark base contrast with the plate and the polished chokes and transformer bell. :)
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We got a new carmelized base in from Clark and Molly a couple days ago. It was done to a really nice deep brown too. Looked sexy, wish I had thought to take a pic before shipping it out.
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Randy,
The polishing looks great in these pictures. I can see the end bell and frames better in these pictures. Exactly, great contrast!
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Just for fun I built this removable pilot light for my amp. I took a 9 pin socket saver, removed the center screw, and placed a 12-16V amber grain of wheat lamp in the hole, soldereing the wires between pins 4 and 5. I can use the adapter if I want the pilot light or remove it if I don't. I haven't heard any difference in the sound yet but I will listen more closely when my Orcas get here tomorrow. Can't wait.
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You must be so excited to hear those speakers - just like christmas. I can't believe my kit hasn't shipped yet, it better ship soon or will have spent all my money on stuff before it even gets here. I am still looking at drivers, have found a number that are 96db and higher, expensive though.
Hey, let me know if you want to do DIY interconnects. I have built about 6 different versions and really like the fine magnet wire versions.
drew.
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Yes, I am really looking forward to finally hearing the system. I ordered the kit and speakers on the same day (1/11/13). I guess Blumenstein has been very busy with a lot of backlog to build. Now the only decision is what song to play first :).
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well, I am not a big fan of the idea of electronics "breaking in" but speakers sure do need a break in, so if they sound great right away, just know they will only get better. Also, if you are like me, you'll spend at least a week moving them around to get just the right listening position and bass response. All in all, you are going to busy with them for a while!
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. . . Now the only decision is what song to play first :).
I always go with CS&N the first LP. I have a Classic Reissue Remastered. It is better than my first pressing of the LP.
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Now available in 24/96 khz remix on HD tracks.
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My Orcas came! WoW. I have never heard anything like what I am hearing from the amp and the Orca speakers, and it keeps on getting better the more I listen. My wife even commented on the sound. Now I really notice the difference in recordings. I guess all recordings are not created equal. I am streaming my music digitally through a tos link cable to a Cambridge audio 24 bit DAC, and then to the Stereomour. I know many of you are cringing because I am streaming digital music, but I can't get over the sound. I am a very happy camper. I have this system in my bedroom and it fits perfectly. It even looks nice.
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Congratulations, nice system! - Streaming is the way to go - I only stream digital with J-River. I have found 24 bit recordings to always be significantly better, even at lower sampling rates. The only problem is you then get into the whole DAC Dilemma, and I have tried a few before settling into my current one.
Enjoy, and get on HD-tracks, I am listening to a 24/96 khz recording of Brazilian singer Rosa Passos with Ron Carter on Bass - fabulous sound.
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Hi Randy,
Glad you are liking the Orcas! If you like them now, just wait until you get over 400 hours on them -- and the steromour as well.
One way to get really decent sound from streaming is to use the MOG service and sign up for the primo subscription ($10/month) and check the box for high quality streams (320 kbps MP3), still not even CD quality, but far better than the other streaming services out there and a HUGE selection of music. And I've never had a glitch or drop out, even streaming over wifi to my iPad.
Congratulations!
-- Jim
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I currently stream from my own music library using CD quality or better. I was not even aware of HD source websites. I have noticed that the speakers are getting louder as I listen to them. I assume that is normal. Also, my son played a very large dynamic range song and it actually over drove the amp. That really surprised me. everything else I have played I have been able to play at full volume, but now that the speakers are getting louder and full volume is beginning to be a little too much. I am amazed at the Orca's ability to play drums. I can't say enough about this system, and I would recommend the amp and speakers to anyone.
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Randy - I use a couple of hi res music sites - HDTracks is one, HDTracks has a lot of classic rock and some great jazz recordings. Bowers and Wilkins has a really great music club that gives you two or more free hi res downloads every month for members. I have gotten some really cool music through them and some not so good. HighDefTapeTransfers is great for classical and now has a lot of 192 khz. I still don't hear that much difference in the sampling rates but have little high frequency hearing left so maybe that is why.
I really only buy 24 bit now because I always notice the difference from 16 bit. I think as your amp and speakers break in, you will really value the transparency and musicality of the high res material.
It is so cool to hear about your experience, sounds like you are really enjoying it!
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Randy,
Ok, thought you meant you were streaming internet radio or something like Pandora. Depending on how your streaming from your own server and the configuration of the dac and playback software, you should be getting great quality sound so I'm not sure why you said "just" streaming. or something like that.
Anyway, yes, the bass in particular on the Orcas starts to really fill in at about the 30-50 hour mark depending on how loud you play them. The spider and suspension need to work and loosen up a bit and ths accounts for a good bit of this. I'm running mine 24/7 now and will until later this month when I'm at or past the 400 hour mark. With my listening room being at the opposite end of the house from the bedroom, and down one level, I can get away with this, though it still can't be too awfully loud.
Continue to enjoy them and the amp!
-- Jim
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If you want to run your speakers at volume to break in without listening, wire them out of phase and place them facing each other about a foot apart. You can even through a blanket over them, then just let them rip.
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Or even closer. You would be amazed how much sound you cancel, not as much bass. Also, make it Mono somehow.
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Well as I'm working on break-in I'm also working on placement and its a real PITA for me to keep moving things back and forth, even with tape markers and such.
However, today there was a nice improvement in bass and the soundstage is evening out even more and gaining in depth. Plus I don't know which part of the system -- preamp, power amps or speakers are opening up even more, but my max volume is even better today and I was able to crank things all the way up with some live music and it sounded fantastic -- no break up IM distortion and no glare whatsoever. It was so good that i decided to leave the KK teflons in for another day before I replace them with the CuTFs in the SR-45s. I'm loving this!
-- Jim
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Ok... I connected the Orcas to a K12 amp using a radio receiver as the source. I disconnected the antenna and used a weak signal so the receiver would only play mono. Then I reversed the leads on one speaker and put them about 5" apart. The sound cancellation was very effective. I will leave this setup running every day this week to get a head start on breaking in the speakers. I was amazed at the difference when the receiver was limited to mono. I will give a report at the end of the week. ;)
Update: I found a splitter so I changed the setup to play only one channel from the receiver to both channels of the amp. Much cleaner than using a weak fm signal. I suppose i could have used an AM station (duh).
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I now have over 40 hours of break-in and already the speakers are loosening up. I think I will let them break in rest of the way just by listening to them. I have noticed that the bass response is much louder. I am now wrestling with speaker placement. Just minor movements gives a totally different sound. After many placements I have finally found one that balances the bass. Thanks for all the newbie help. Now on to my Tode. I have already purchased all I need for putting tolex and corners on the cab. I even purchased a router table to do a cleaner round-over. Wish me luck.