Mysterious static...

StivVid · 3394

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline StivVid

  • Full Member
  • ***
    • Posts: 67
on: March 12, 2015, 12:46:17 PM
I've recently completed a Crack build with Speedball and sold it to a headphone aficionado that lives very near to my home.  I'm glad he lives so close, because we keep having problems with the Crack.
I built it, tested all the voltages, listened to it for several hours over a period of nearly a week before I sold it to him.  Everything was working perfectly.  He came and picked it up, I got text messages saying that it sounded great.  Then the next morning he texted again to say that there was a loud crackling and popping in the left channel and that he was afraid to plug his headphones in again in case they might get damaged.
He brought it back to me and I looked it over.  Sure enough, it was making noise and I tracked down the problem to a ground wire that I thought was connected but actually wasn't.  I also spotted a few solder joints that looked a bit iffy.  Heated up the soldering iron and five minutes later it was fixed.  No more noise, so I had him come pick it up.
He reported back later that everything seemed ok.  Meanwhile, he had asked me earlier to do the volume pot resistor mod from the Crack FAQ.  A few days later, those resistors arrived and he brought it back to me to do the mod.  After the mod, everything sounded great and was working as it should.  He took it home and reported back that he was thrilled.  Sounded fantastic.
The next morning, I got a text saying that the Crack was making noise again.  This time in the right channel.  It was a faint static sound that seemed to start as the headphones were plugged in and last several minutes then go away.  If he unplugged the headphones and plugged them back in, the static would return.
So he brought it back to me again.  I listened to it for a couple hours that night and couldn't get it to make the noise he was describing.  Sounded perfect.  Tried it again the next morning and still couldn't repeat the problem.  I let him know, he picked it up and took it home and reported back that I was right--no noise.
The next morning, I got another text saying that static was back.  This time I went to his house to listen to it in his setup.  I heard it this time.  Faint but clearly audible static in the right channel when the plug was fully seated, but as you pull the plug out a bit static can be heard in both channels.
When we were at his house and I could hear what he was talking about, we tried different tubes, different interconnects, with interconnects connected and without.  He's got it plugged into an APC uninterruptible power supply.  We unplugged it from that and plugged it directly into the wall.  Nothing seemed to have an effect.
Flummoxed, I took it home to have another look and figure out what's going on.  It's on my workbench now, and guess what?  No static.
Any ideas on what I should be looking for?



Offline Paul Birkeland

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 19389
Reply #1 on: March 12, 2015, 12:54:23 PM
It could very well be environmental, or perhaps another iffy connection that needs to be reheated.

-PB

(The noise appearing in both channels when you pull the plug part way out is covered in the Crack FAQ)

Paul "PB" Birkeland

Bottlehead Grunt & The Repro Man


Offline StivVid

  • Full Member
  • ***
    • Posts: 67
Reply #2 on: March 12, 2015, 01:19:43 PM
Thanks, PB.  I've just looked over the Crack FAQ again, and I can't find the section you're referring to.  Can you point me to it?



Offline Paul Birkeland

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 19389
Reply #3 on: March 12, 2015, 06:51:08 PM
It's been a while since I looked over the Crack FAQ, I've added #12 to it, which explains the mysteries of listening to the amp with the 1/4" plug not quite plugged all the way in.

-PB

Paul "PB" Birkeland

Bottlehead Grunt & The Repro Man


Offline StivVid

  • Full Member
  • ***
    • Posts: 67
Reply #4 on: March 12, 2015, 07:05:40 PM
Aha!  Well, that does make perfect sense.  Still doesn't explain where the static in the right channel is coming from.  I've been listening to this thing all night and it's been absolutely silent.  Not a blip of static.  I have no idea what it could be.  Guess I'll try it again tomorrow.



Offline Strikkflypilot

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
    • Posts: 459
  • Shellac fiddler
Reply #5 on: March 13, 2015, 04:51:12 AM
If knocking/ tapping on the panel, edit: makes You hear the noise on a channel it most likely is a bad solder joint, and whats more, it is in the output circuit, maybe even a joint that has been forgotten to solder. Start at the jack and search backwards along the appropriate channel.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2015, 07:08:34 AM by Strikkflypilot »

Home system:
Sources: Ibasso DX90, Google Chromecast Audio optical out
DAC: Schiit Gumby
Amp: Bottlehead Mainline
http://bottlehead.com/smf/index.php?topic=7463.0
Phones: HD800S

Office:
Sources: Iphone/ Ipod
DAC: Dragonfly Red+Jtrbug
Amp: Crack/Speedball heavily modded
Phones: HD580,HD600 grilles


Offline StivVid

  • Full Member
  • ***
    • Posts: 67
Reply #6 on: March 13, 2015, 06:29:25 AM
Tapping the top plate seems to make no difference.  Wiggling the headphone plug in its jack does, however.  I've reflowed one of the joints on the volume mod--the one that's hardest to get to.  Maybe that's done the trick.  I listened for hours last night and never heard a thing.  The buyer just picked it up and took it home.  Fingers crossed...

Thanks for your advice and input.  Much appreciated as always.



Offline StivVid

  • Full Member
  • ***
    • Posts: 67
Reply #7 on: March 13, 2015, 07:30:21 AM
Well...  No joy.  He took it home, plugged it in, and the static started right away.  I asked him to try it in another room.  He says he thinks it's quieter in the other room, but still there.  He also says that if he taps the top plate in a certain place he hears a "thumping noise" that's different from the static.  I don't think that's odd.  Pretty sure you could tap on any Crack in the right place and hear a thump.  And he says that tapping the right side of the base makes the static go in and out.

I just don't get it.  The amp is dead silent at my house.  This one's got me stumped.



Offline Grainger49

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 7175
Reply #8 on: March 13, 2015, 08:02:56 AM
If you fix it at your home have him listen when he picks it up.  If he hears no noise then it is localized to his place.



Offline Doc B.

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 9561
    • Bottlehead
Reply #9 on: March 13, 2015, 08:03:14 AM
It sounds like it is in his environment. If so you will not be able to sort it out by taking it back to your place. What I would do in this situation is go to the customer's house and ask him to turn off various appliances, electronic gear, light dimmers, etc. while you listen to the amp and see if the noise stops when a particular piece of gear is off.

Dan "Doc B." Schmalle
President For Life
Bottlehead Corp.


Offline Horatio

  • Full Member
  • ***
    • Posts: 67
Reply #10 on: March 13, 2015, 10:55:31 AM
I just want to chime in with an experience I have posted on here before. My crack appeared to work perfectly after the first build and then after a few days I noticed static / noise / interference - mainly when music was not playing. I stripped it down, re-soldered all joints, noise was still there.

I then took it to another room in the house and the noise was gone, back to the original room and the noise was back. It drove me around the bend until I finally decided to turn off every electrical item in the house and slowly, one by one, turned them back on again. First with the Crack, then the computer that was my source - all was fine with no noise. It was only when I finally plugged back in my power line network adapter did the noise return. I moved the power line adapter to another room (another part of the house wiring circuit away from the Crack) and the problem was gone...

The moral of the story - be wary of devices that push 'noise' onto your power lines and if in doubt go back to first principles and rule as many factors out as early as possible by following a methodical approach to troubleshooting the problem...



Offline StivVid

  • Full Member
  • ***
    • Posts: 67
Reply #11 on: March 13, 2015, 11:53:05 AM
The suggestion to turn items off one by one is a very good one.  Thanks, Doc.  I really appreciate all of you chiming in on this.  The amp is back at my house again and is absolutely dead silent.  Doesn't even make a sound when I rap on the top plate or the wood case.  When I remove the headphone plug and plug it back in--same thing.  Deep, dark, black, silence.
It has to be something in his house.  The thing is, though...  He had another Crack before buying mine and it never gave him any trouble.  It didn't have the mod on the volume control.  It was a stock build with the Speedball.  He wasn't happy with the quality of the build and the aesthetics of the finish.  When he saw mine, he wanted it.
Could the introduction of the resistors in the volume mod make it more susceptible to electro-magnetic/RF interference?
I'm very close to giving him his money back and keeping it for myself.



Offline Doc B.

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 9561
    • Bottlehead
Reply #12 on: March 13, 2015, 12:50:02 PM
Yes, adding resistors at the input could make the amp more sensitive to noise.

Dan "Doc B." Schmalle
President For Life
Bottlehead Corp.


Offline MattTCG

  • Jr. Member
  • **
    • Posts: 20
Reply #13 on: March 13, 2015, 03:01:50 PM
I admit to being amp buyer here. Many thanks to all the help here and for the builders patience. This problem has driver us both to near insanity. I'm surprised that no one has spoken about or mentioned tubes as a possible culprit. I have a ts5998 and telefunken 12au7 set. But we have also tried the stock tubes with the same result.

And yes, I had another crack amp with sb which never gave me one bit of trouble. It did not have the resistor mod. Thing is, the crack in it's stock form with no resistor mod is just too loud for me.

Many thanks to the builder who has been extremely patient through this process and gracious with his time. And thanks to all those who've chimed in to help!!



Offline StivVid

  • Full Member
  • ***
    • Posts: 67
Reply #14 on: March 13, 2015, 05:08:55 PM
I am determined to solve this.  Matt--I hope you'll let me help you track down the gremlins--if in fact there are any.  I'm not ruling out that there might be some unresolved issue within the amp itself.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2015, 07:25:22 PM by StivVid »