SixAPre

RPMac · 5822

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Offline RPMac

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on: April 07, 2014, 07:18:09 AM
Is there any problem with running the BeePre full time with 6A3's?



Offline Paul Birkeland

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Reply #1 on: April 07, 2014, 08:58:21 AM
This shouldn't be a problem.

-PB

Paul "PB" Birkeland

Bottlehead Grunt & The Repro Man


Offline STURMJ

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Reply #2 on: April 07, 2014, 05:03:24 PM
I have been using 6A3s since Jan. I only use it maybe 2 hours a wwek but they have been fine for me.



Offline RPMac

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Reply #3 on: April 08, 2014, 08:04:19 AM
Why would a 300B work in my ParaBee, but not in the BeePre?
These are unknown Chinese-made solded by Upscale Audio that I bought used(actually one worked, the other didn't)
Could it be a weak tube?



Offline Paul Birkeland

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Reply #4 on: April 08, 2014, 08:48:51 AM
If the filament is sufficiently out of tolerance, then perhaps that could cause an issue.

Taking some voltage measurements of the tube that doesn't work operating in the BeePre would tell us for sure.

Paul "PB" Birkeland

Bottlehead Grunt & The Repro Man


Offline RPMac

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Reply #5 on: April 08, 2014, 11:42:19 AM
300B's
tube 1...Fil--4.23vdc; Plate--142vdc

tube 2...Fil--4.25vdc; Plate--144vdc

tube 1 was playing, then faded out as I was taking measurements.

Put the 300B's back in ParaBee's and I'm listening to them now.

6A3's in BeePre

tube 1...Fil--6.13vdc; Plate--101.2vdc

tube 2...Fil--5.90vdc; Plate--98.8vdc

« Last Edit: April 08, 2014, 11:45:11 AM by RPMac »



Offline Paul Joppa

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Reply #6 on: April 08, 2014, 03:05:42 PM
Yeah those cathodes are exhausted.

Paul Joppa


Offline Paul Birkeland

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Reply #7 on: April 09, 2014, 06:54:20 AM
300B's
tube 1...Fil--4.23vdc; Plate--142vdc

tube 2...Fil--4.25vdc; Plate--144vdc

Those 300B's aren't really drawing any plate current.  What is your "POS OUT" voltage from each regulator board?

This is about what I'd expect from some well worn 300B's. They'll still work in a cathode bias power amp (kinda), but not in something as tightly regulated as the BeePre.

Paul "PB" Birkeland

Bottlehead Grunt & The Repro Man


Offline RPMac

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Reply #8 on: April 09, 2014, 12:12:58 PM
I'm assuming you mean the high voltage reg (ter.6--144.8vdc & ter.11--145.9vdc)

The Pos Out on the PSU board 10.07vdc & 10.00vdc

Measured with 6A3's in.

As for the 300B's, I guess that is what you get with a cheap "deal" on eBay.

In the BeePre, would a plate voltage much above ~100vdc or +110vdc indicate a tube that is expiring?



Offline Paul Joppa

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Reply #9 on: April 09, 2014, 06:47:15 PM
...
In the BeePre, would a plate voltage much above ~100vdc or +110vdc indicate a tube that is expiring?
I'd say "fading". It should still work until the plate voltage is around 135v - that leaves 10v compliance to the regulated 145v, so you still have 5v peak output available with a 5v margin for the C4S to function properly. So at maybe 130v I'd say "expiring".

Paul Joppa


Offline RPMac

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Reply #10 on: April 10, 2014, 03:17:24 AM
PJ, thanks for the explanation. I don't understand how a constant current source works, but thought Ohm's Law had to apply in some way.



Offline Paul Birkeland

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Reply #11 on: April 10, 2014, 04:53:10 AM
PJ, thanks for the explanation. I don't understand how a constant current source works, but thought Ohm's Law had to apply in some way.

Yeah, a current source replaces a resistor (fixed, resistive impedance at the frequencies we care about), with an impedance that is much higher. 

Since you're cool with Ohm's law, we'll look at the voltage amp stage in the defunct Foreplay III as an example:

The stock circuit drops about 3.3mA across a 22.1K resistor from a 150V power supply, so 75V appears on the plate of the first stage. 

When we install a C4S in this circuit, the 22.1K resistor is removed and replaced with a current source set to about 3.3mA.  Consequently, the same plate voltage appears, but the load impedance that that gain stage sees is now several million Ohms (instead of 22,100 Ohms). 

It isn't necessary to understand the workings of the current source, but rather that it allows us to circumvent the restrictions of Ohm's Law a bit.  If we wanted that same gain stage with a 1M plate load resistor, 75V on the plate, and 3.3mA of current, we would need a 3,200V power supply and a 1M 30W resistor.  When you go through the analysis, you need hundreds of dollars worth of parts to build a 3.2kV power supply, then you need those resistors too (they are about $100 each), then the pin spacing on the 9 pin socket would cause a lot of arc over before the tube drew current, etc. 


Paul "PB" Birkeland

Bottlehead Grunt & The Repro Man


Offline kip.duff

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Reply #12 on: June 29, 2016, 11:28:14 AM
I've heard good things about the 6a3 tube option in the BeePre forum, and I am leaning in that direction.  I'm seeing NOS Philco, RCA, Sylvania, etc. pairs on eBay.  Is there any consensus as to which of these NOS brands/versions are preferable?  Thanks.........

Dr. Feickert Blackbird II w Reed 2A tonearm and Lyra Skala cartridge.  Eros 2.  Audio Note DAC 2.1 Signature.  BeePre with BeeQuiet and Paramount 1.1 monoblocs into A7 VOTTs or Nagoaka folded horns.


Offline Doc B.

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Reply #13 on: June 29, 2016, 11:32:29 AM
Have you tried it with a 300B yet?

Dan "Doc B." Schmalle
President For Life
Bottlehead Corp.


Offline kip.duff

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Reply #14 on: June 29, 2016, 03:03:43 PM
No- I've just started the build.  Since some of these tubes take a long time in shipment, I want to reach a decision.  My logic on the 6a3 after research here is that: a)there are claims that they are less microphonic b) you can get vintage NOS American made tubes for around $150 matched pair which (in theory) means improved sound.  I guess the 6a3 filaments have higher resistance, so filament voltage is pretty acceptable at around 6.1VDC.  My guess is that the preamp with 6a3's may have less overall gain, but nobody has  complained.  If I go with 300B's, NOS not available at my price range.  Looking at buying stock EH 300B's from you (if available separately), TJ Mesh, Psvane TII (currently in my Paramount 1.1's- $400), or whatever else my research digs up.  I'm looking for feedback because I'm hoping to "buy once".

That said, I'm all ears on whatever advice you might have :).    Excited about hearing combination of BeePre>Paramount 1.1>soon to be purchased Fostex BK-16 folded horn kit with Fostex FE168 Sigma full range drivers.  Thanks, Kip.............   

Dr. Feickert Blackbird II w Reed 2A tonearm and Lyra Skala cartridge.  Eros 2.  Audio Note DAC 2.1 Signature.  BeePre with BeeQuiet and Paramount 1.1 monoblocs into A7 VOTTs or Nagoaka folded horns.