How loud do you listen to music?

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4krow

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Reply #30 on: March 24, 2013, 05:29:49 AM
The mention of piano performances reminded me of a recital that I attended. Maybe to make a fresh impression of her interpretation of Chopin, was to ATTACK the keys with all her might. Load and annoying, I left after a short while. I stayed as long as I did hoping that this student might have a change in character towards her performance, but no. My hearing is worth more than violent interpretation.



Offline manis

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Reply #31 on: March 24, 2013, 07:20:22 AM
If somehow I could reduce the background noise to 25 db by throwing out the refrigerator in the next room, could I reduce the volume I play the music and still get the same effect of dynamics?

I think the only way to actually check that is to go empirical. However, I do not think unplugging a typical fridge will render a sound pressure drop of 7 dB. To give you an idea, when I switched off mine, which is in the same room as where I listen to music, I only saw a 1-1.5 dB decrease. I could be completely wrong, of course, since I don't know your situation :)

Please do tell us your empirical findings.

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Offline Grainger49

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Reply #32 on: March 24, 2013, 07:21:24 AM
I can attest that lowering the noise floor sounds like turning up the volume.  I found that back in the 90s with a Power Wedge that eliminated power line noise. 



Offline fishboat

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Reply #33 on: March 24, 2013, 08:22:06 AM
This has piqued my interest..I have a radioshack meter around here somewhere.  I'll need to spin up a couple cds and see where average listening is for me.  I too remember (sort of) a Frank Zappa concert in Chicago many years ago where we had seats about 25 feet out in front of the left speaker bank..yeow..  No lasting damage though as my hearing has been tested a number of times since and has been 'excellent'.

I'm on the leading edge (as in I haven't started yet) of building a pair of 97dB speakers and powering them with a yet to be assembled Stereomour..I haven't experienced SET power and high sensitivity speakers, but, from this thread, it sounds like I'll have more than enough power (room 13 x ~16).

As as interesting aside..I read recently that all frequent motorcycle riders that don't protect their hearing tend to have hearing damage due to wind noise.  I don't ride, but that took me a bit by surprise.   

~Kevin


Offline fishboat

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Reply #34 on: March 24, 2013, 01:30:07 PM
Just listened to Dizzy Gillespie, Cool World. 

Low 80's dB is plenty loud.  When Diz really hit it I'd get peaks of 90dB.  Piano would push it to peaks of 86-88dB. 

~Kevin


Offline drewh1

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Reply #35 on: March 24, 2013, 03:54:59 PM
I find my normal listening level is about 79 - 85 dB, sometimes higher when things are rocking, lower late at night.

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Offline Paul Joppa

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Reply #36 on: March 24, 2013, 06:06:11 PM
No.

The "frequency response" (for want of a more accurate term) of the ear is level dependent, so it only sounds right when the level is appropriate. The audiophile magic words are Fletcher-Munson Equal Loudness Contours, though there has been a much more modern and accurate ISO standard for the last few decades.

Old-style preamps had a "loudness contour" control or switch which would boost the lows and some of the highs to make an approximate correction and allow for a lower listening level. Most of those are based on the F-M curves, though I think I've seen one published that was closer to the more recent data. But the correction and lower levels have gone out of fashion, so neither approach is at all common these days.

Nevertheless, most studio engineers listen at a level of around 82dB, defined as the moderate-term average (time constant about 300mS) of musical peaks, as measured by a VU meter. A typical SPL meter will have similar characteristics to the VU meter, though not identical.

Note that quality recordings will have instantaneous peaks typically 5 time higher (+14dB), with studio compression. This is well below symphony orchestra levels in the closer seats, which may run more like 90-95dB if I recall correctly, and for a few instruments can have instantaneous peaks some 30dB greater. The real-world peaks are essentially never available in recordings, so that's an interesting but irrelevant piece of data. Clipping of these instantaneous peaks is usually an audible degradation, though it is much more subtle with the soft clipping of zero-feedback SET amps compared to high feedback amps. It's my belief that this effect is responsible for the reputation that SET watts are bigger than solid state watts.

Paul Joppa


Offline Chris

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Reply #37 on: March 26, 2013, 09:16:35 AM
That makes alot of sense about the perception of SET watts...



4krow

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Reply #38 on: March 26, 2013, 11:29:59 AM
Paul,

  I think you hit the nail on the head. There is a right volume for many things. Sometimes it seems more important to me with some music than other music. Having said that, and with some experimentation, I won't go so far as to use fine/coarse mono controls for both channels, but I have found a pleasant medium with a main volume control and a fine tune control, one for each channel.



Offline earwaxxer

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Reply #39 on: March 26, 2013, 02:30:44 PM
Its funny, I was just thinking about what Greg was saying about the live piano recital that was a bit 'much'. I have experienced that with live symphony music that was quite loud and intense. My hearing was a bit 'overwhelmed', and if I was listening to that sound over speakers I would probably find some sort of faults with the system! How crazy is that! Like what am I going to 'blame' - the hall acoustics? - no, this hall was one of the best for acoustics in the state. What I can blame is my jack-ass 'audiophile' mentality.

Eric
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Offline Brent

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Reply #40 on: March 26, 2013, 03:23:23 PM
Eric,

What can you do but laugh--I've had similar enlightening experiences with sounds that, if I heard them on a record, would have me cleaning the record or checking my stylus or fiddling alignment or. . ..you get the idea.  We're all somewhere on the audiophile jackass continuum, or we wouldn't be reading or participating in this conversation.  I will say that the BH/DIY (Seduction + SEX 2.0 + just about everything else at this point) experience has helped immensely with that 'problem'.

Back to the main topic, 75 to 80 dB here, when the wife and kids are out of the house.  And to respond to comments above, it's shocking how loud live acoustic instruments can be if you don't hear them on a regular basis.  I don't these days, BTW.   :) ::)

Brent



4krow

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Reply #41 on: March 26, 2013, 05:25:27 PM
Oh no, no, no. Let me clarify. That bitches' ass was jumpin off the saddle. Her feet weren't even touching the ground, she hit those keys like step children. The wicked witch of the West couldn't have scared me more....



Offline earwaxxer

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Reply #42 on: March 26, 2013, 05:35:52 PM
I know Greg... The medicine has been good for you since then, dont forget. We love you.

Eric
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4krow

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Reply #43 on: March 26, 2013, 06:27:50 PM
I see that I haven't made myself clear. Let me try again. I knew something was wrong because when the pianist came out on stage, she was wearing boxing gloves. They said that by the end of the recital, she had key marks on her forehead. I became worried when she broke two of her finest clubs during the performance. There were 13 disturbing the peace complaints FROM the police station. After the recital she apologized on stage for her chain saw running out of gas.
 But you have to understand, she is from a small town. "HOW SMALL IS IT?" It's so small, the local prostitute is still a virgin. Birth control there is a felony. When the local folk are hoping for a good crop, they are NOT talking about the fields, THAT"S how small this town is.


                         Any Questions?



Offline RayP

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Reply #44 on: March 27, 2013, 03:16:50 AM
I would be curious to know what piece the Chopin pianist was playing. He was reputed to play very quietly and there is a famous quote by Thalberg down the page in the following link.

http://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=41729.0

Some years ago I went to the International Piano Archives at the University of Maryland.

http://www.lib.umd.edu/ipam

The curator took me on a tour and kindly found time to fire up the old Ampico player piano. I had asked to hear the Liszt Campanella with Joseph Lhevinne and when it was playing it was fascinating to stand at the keyboard and you could tell he probably was a small man just by the way the keys went up and down.



We then followed up with Rachmaninov playing one of his preludes and you could tell that this was a much bigger and more powerful man playing who had at least fifteen fingers.



I love it when a big pianist comes on stage and it looks like he could wreck the piano if necessary. Oddly enough they are usually good enough pianists to play really softly if necessary. It's a bit like loudspeakers, some can play low and loud better than others.

ray

Ray Perry