Bottlehead Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: azrockitman on September 07, 2013, 08:37:36 PM
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8 years ago, I went deaf in my right ear, overnight. Virus. Left me deaf in that ear and also deposited a strong dose of tinnitus. Tinnitus for those uninitiated, can range from a chirping sound, to ringing, to a roar. Mine is a roar, much like you would experience in a machine shop.
I had amassed by that point in my life what I considered a significant amount of quality solid state equipment, B&K Reference amps and preamps. A really amazing Esoteric (teac) SACD/CD player. Good interconnects, etc. Modest turntable but a fairly nice Sumiko cartridge. Way way way below what you'd find in Stereophile regularly, but I was extremely happy with the results.
Prior to the hearing loss, there were nights when I was single that I would crank the A/C up for about an hour so the house would remain cool enough here in the desert, and then I would shut it off completely so it wouldn't come on and would no longer produce any noise, unplug my fridge so that noise would be eliminated (after I made a drink!) and listen to music in pristine quiet. I loved that experience. it was audio bliss, to me.
Immediately after the hearing loss, I was devastated. I thought my wanna-be audiophile days were over. But they weren't.
Tinnitus is a crazy thing. If you don't think about it, it tends to disappear. As I sit here and type comments about, it's roaring like a machine shop because I'm thinking about it. But when I don't think about it and relax and listen to music there are many times I can tune it out completely.
As far as the hearing loss goes, well nothing will bring that back. Although......there are an odd assortment of high frequencies that still push through, and they come through mostly when I'm wearing my headphones. There are some pieces of music, usually jazz, where if I'm relaxed and not thinking about the tinnitus, it's nearly as if nothing ever happened and i can hear most of the left and right channel. Just no bass on the right. In reality, probably 95% of the channel is missing on the right, but it's just crazy what hearing that small range of some high end frequency can do to make my brain feel like it's hearing the entire soundstage.
Another strange thing happened over time. I can "face" my loudspeakers with just my good (left) ear, ...and I can place sound. I can hear left channel on the left, and I can hear the right channel on the right. I don't know if that's the effect you hear about when someone loses one of their senses and the others over-compensate or if it's the fact that some very few select frequencies come through my bad ear, but it's cool, whatever has caused it to occur.
I guess that's my little message. I was so depressed initially that one of the great loves of my life was gone when this happened, but it wasn't. I can still hear the difference between a shitty recording, and a great one. Still hear the amazing warmth, and quiet of the sound that my stereomour produces. And the moments when it's quiet, and I'm not focused on anything other than the music, it's as if nothing ever happened.
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AZRM,
I'm glad that you shared this. Almost no one talks about the inevitable hearing loss, one way or another. This is kind of like Playboy not discussing pregnancy or VD.
Your right about the brain doing better than expected when it has to. I can attest (as many of us could) to the difference in hearing ability decreasing over the years. Yet, I can still enjoy the music. Most interesting is the fact that many who still have perfect hearing have no idea what it even is good for, let alone take care of it. How many times have you seen someone use a Skillsaw, or other extremely loud tool without using hearing protection?
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Thats an interesting story. Another example of how much of a role the brain plays in perception. The images on our retina are actually upside down is another example. I did read somewhere that tinnitus is partially due to the brain turning up the "gain" when it perceives a loss of hearing. I have experienced that I can decrease it by focused relaxation on the tinnitus and my hearing in general.
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Wow, I am amazed by that story. I'm glad you find such enjoyment in this hobby and it didn't hold you back.
I have been playing drums for a long time. More than 2 decades of rock performing alone. Being a band director and music teacher also lends to loud environments. Glad I only have, what I consider, a small amount of noise in my ears. I used earplugs a majority of the time during the first couple years, and exclusively for a long time.
Disappears completely when I am listening or doing literally anything else. But I wish I would have been mature enough to protect my hearing.
Thanks for sharing.
ben
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I've had tinnitus for 13 years. An audiologist suggested taking Folic Acid. I take 400-800 units of Folic acid a day. It has suppressed the ringing in the left ear and almost removed it from the right. Of course it comes and goes.
a couple of decades in heavy industry, even with hearing protection, has taken a toll on my hearing. I attempt to make up for it with a cheap tweeter, but it is crude and doesn't mix well with the Orcas. Clark is going to make a suggestion.
Good post man!
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Oh Eric-Eric, Eric,,,it's upside down AND backwards. swing, and a Miss(pun Included).
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Well said Master Greg... - (spoken in the voice of Alfred)
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Thanks all. 8)
The first moment that I first felt some optimism was actually when I went to my first audiologist appointment a few weeks after it happened and he confirmed the near total loss in the right ear, but most importantly confirmed my left ear was nearly 95% perfect. Maybe I should go by something like
"mano con mono". (I probably screwed up that spanglish attempt)
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Dude with the kissing disease?
Now I have fractured Spanish.
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I've had ringing for about 20 years. I'm going to try the Folic Acid.
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Grainger, that was funny
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Tim, my heart really goes out to you.
I got into HiFi with my heart after a hearing loss scare when I was 19. Was just starting to help out Terry Cain and diy my own gear around that time. Went to see my favorite band, Stereolab, in Portland at the crystal ballroom with a friend. Out of chivalry I lent them the earplugs I so religiously kept on me to use at shows that sounded this bad, (or too loud). And unfortunately, the sound at this show was absolutely horrid, and extremely loud. But I kept my spirits up and just tried to grit my teeth and bear the high volumes W/O protection and enjoy some of the music. I positioned myself right at the front of the stage where I was listening more to their monitors than to the squawking PA system. But when I woke up in the morning, both ears: "EEEEEEEEEKKK!"
It lasted for 4 weeks solid. I thought it was permanent. but over time it went away completely (and now I'm extra careful (and lucky!)). But during those four weeks, I was scared shitless. So I did alot of research about hearing loss and what causes it and theories, etc.
Theres a really interesting study I read somewhere (it was legitimate, but I haven't been able to find the article again), that was testing the notion that "pleasant" sounds and those with dynamic range cause less hearing loss at the same SPL's as "unpleasant" sounds. Compared were career choices. Like symphony conductors, PA system operators, versus airplane pilots or oil derrick workers, etc. Same average SPL exposure over the same number of hours each day, but far more often (and severe) hearing loss in the case of the pilots/industrial noise pollution. This is such a fascinating hypothesis because it would mean that potentially designers could "design out" hearing loss causing noises from many facets of industry (?), everyday appliances even? who knows?
But in my own quest, that scare got me even deeper into high fidelity, and in particular, the "pleasant sounding" ilk of high fidelity equipment as a way to both:
1. make speakers that hurt the ears less and encourage reasonable listening levels
2. give a "healing listening" option to those who have hearing loss and need to be careful about causing further damage, etc. - I.E. that beautiful music can distract from tinitus and help give the brain some respite at least.
Of course, I am not an audiologist so I'm not an expert in the science behind this. But to my understanding, the science of hearing loss is still very much in its infancy. Its such a complex topic with so many contributing factors, over very long time domains. Its hard to design clinical trials that are really "clean" experiments to test theories.
So that's why I got into the business of HiFi to help folks in a concrete way during my lifetime (hopefully), rather than to follow in the footsteps of my dad, who is a biostatistician, designing clinical trials to test cancer treatments, etc.
Grainger, still reseaching tweeters for you. So many options!
Cheers,
Clark
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Wet toilet paper, man. Wet toilet paper.
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Clark,
I heard Fleetwood Mack in 1969 in a basket ball court building. They had 54 speaker cabinets and I had ringing for days after.
That is why I so religously wore hearing protection after that. Forgot for my last Allman Brothers concert. And our seats were in front of tower speakers. I got napkins and hammered them into my ears. Paula got the ear plugs begged off of the security guy.
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Serious question: does anyone have advice on earplugs for concerts? Something that deadens the sound levels, but keeps garbling to a minimum?
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I have had tinnitus for 15-20 years. Lippoflavinoid (sp?) helps some. The important thing as far as music goes, is that it is smooth sounding. Anything harsh in the upper mids or highs will set my ears off in minutes. I keep the volume down for the most part also. This is what brought me to tubes. My Altecs are smoother but still with the detail.
Since we all hear differently, we need to do what works for us.
Mark
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I was studying earplugs recently, in light of my soon-to-be motorcycle riding. Turns out the wax impregnated cotton ones are really good, as are good old Aearos. The ones that give better frequency response tend to have less suppression.
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I've had a pair of Etymotic Research plugs for years. The attenuate pretty evenly. The downside to that is it makes audience talking stand out much more. Still worlds better than the standard foam things.
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Etymotic ER-20. There are other options though, like custom musicians earplugs. I don't feel too terrible about misplacing a pair of ER-20's though at $10/pr.
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Excellent topic/responses! Thank you all so much for giving this valuable info to some that may not realize the dangers caused by more than just loud concerts. I worked in a factory when I was 20, and was the first to use ANY kind of hearing protection. At first, I used wet toilet paper(like Grainger), and it worked really well. Then the company bought ear plugs, but as mentioned before, they may not have been the best. I used a headset OVER the top of earplugs. I had really great hearing back then and wanted to keep it that way as long as possible. When I do use foam plugs I dampen them first, making them more effective.
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Thanks for the suggestions! I'm off to buy some of each...
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Yep, back in the day, me and Greg and many others, had no concept of hearing damage. I used to "drive truck" for my dad. Those fucking trucks were loud beyond belief. We just kind of got into it. It was so loud you could talk to yourself or sing, or whatever, and the other person could not hear you. Kind like a sound isolation barrier. You could talk shit about the other person and he couldn't hear you!
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Thanks for all the added (and warm) comments.
One thing my audiologist cautioned me about that I do believe has merit is caffeine. Which I truly love. :D
He told me to avoid caffeine and chocolate as it can aggravate the tinnitus. I have personally found that to be true. I also have found that when my personal stress level is high, that it aggravates the same. (it would suck to get stressed out when you avoid caffein and chocolate!!! ::) ) But during times that it is really bugging me, I do avoid tea or diet coke.
To Clark's point, there is so little money spent on research on hearing loss in general and tinnitus specifically. My doctor told me 7 years ago that there was no major study taking place on it, at least in this country. It would be a real bonanza for someone to discover a truly significant cure, or even aid.
On a total side note: The only "appliance" option that would do me any good is a "frankenstein" implant that would be bored into the side of my skull, behind the low part of my bad ear. It's a snap on connector that allows you to snap a microphone type receiver on it. It then transmits sound from your bad side, through your skull, and it's picked up on the other side of your skull by your good ear. They demo'd that for me by placing an incredibly tight steel band (like a headphone assembly, only painful) that had that type of microphone/transmitter on it. And by golly it worked. I could hear things that were whispered on my right, but in my left ear. Sounded kind of tinny, but it worked. But it's little an open port to your skull when nothing is attached and you have to be careful to avoid getting it wet or dirty when nothing is plugged into it. And get used to the Frankenstein jokes simultaneously.
All in all, I'm content with all of it and hope that anyone else that would ever incur this type of loss look down the road and understand that if you have one good ear, it's all good. ;)
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Swing, and a miss. Let's wait for a more decent appliance to arrive. If I had to, I would invite other surgeries to the cause, but I'm not sure as to what is available.
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Zinc is also a good mineral for the old auditory apparatus.
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I was very sorry to read about hearing loss and tinnitus cases. My wife has tinnitus and it drives her bonkers at times. In Germany they seem to have had good results with music therapy. Here are some links:
Article: http://www.ijcem.com/files/IJCEM1207002.pdf
Web site: http://www.dzm-heidelberg.de/
Best
Michael
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Serious question: does anyone have advice on earplugs for concerts? Something that deadens the sound levels, but keeps garbling to a minimum?
I've got some V-Moda Faders (I think that's what they're called) that do a pretty good job.