Bottlehead Forum
Other Gear => Speakers => Topic started by: Gerry E. on April 18, 2014, 05:06:33 AM
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Hi Clark, Molly:
Any "teasers" about the new Mola speaker? C'mon, spill-the-beans! :)
Gerry
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Hi Gerry!
Sorry it took me a few days to get back to you here. We were super busy this weekend with record store day and then getting orders out 24/7 immediately after that so it took me until this morning to find the time to hop back on the forum.
The Mola's are our big "spring release" model for this year.
Mola's are all about having some fun and in the same stroke as getting a seriously resolved sound at higher volumes than the Orcas can dish out. They don't, and could never "replace" the Orcas in our line up, as they have a slightly different set of talents, and a higher price point.
The Mola, like the Orca, is actually a full product lineup. So we will have a couple of different cabinet configurations we'll be coming out with as well as two different driver options: Fostex FX120 and Fostex F120A.
I actually built various cabinets (BLH/OB/BR) for three pairs of FX120's almost 7 years ago. They were some of the first drivers that I worked on independently from Cain and Cain. The bass reflex design I made held the most promise at the time, but I hadn't yet figured out how to make such high performance/cutting edge fullrange bass reflex FR cabinets. It turned out that the "beefy building" we do these days to the Classic as well as Deluxe and Uni constructions was the key to getting the kind of midrange we wanted in larger single driver fullrange bass reflex cabinets like the Mola.
Still, back then I heard gobs of potential. But the drivers seemed expensive to me. So I took detailed notes on those FX120 drivers and over the years I have compared them to the many, many fullrangers I've owned and heard since. Eventually, the FX120's came back out on top when I purchased the F120A's and FX120's again this year and the first cabs I built for them were of a sound quality that was almost immediately release-worthy. They are so good and well balanced and addictive to listen to. They are also SO MUCH BETTER than the other FR drivers I played with last year. A lot of this is the sort of performance that I can't show you on a chart or articulately tell you "why." Just like the Orca design, the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. So you'd just have to hear these drivers in our boxes to understand the kind of sound we are experiencing here.
This past month that I've been refining the cabinets, in the back of my mind I realized that I was almost embarrassed by the performance - I mean...I could have been building with the FX120 and F120A for our bigger model all along! I can't believe I ever bother to fart around with so many other big, shouty, unrefined FR's aside the small and well behaved Orca design... but I suppose I had to make that journey in order to fully appreciate the FX120's/F120A's again.
The overarching design intent of the Mola is to get an "Orca-like" sound with significantly greater power handling and frequency extension on both ends. They are phenomenally detailed, musical, and powerful. We've tried them with 45s, 2A3's, and even higher-powered amps like 100WPC Class A Hafler, Push-Pull EL34, and PP EL84 and they work well. The paramount 300b's are my current faves. Sonically, they are chameleon-like, just like the Orcas are in the way that they basically just sound like your amp/music. They work great with many amps/musical styles -- a design requirement for us.
The bass (my policy is to be conservative in listed specifications) is spec'ed at ~55-65hz depending upon the room placement. This makes listening without subwoofers a much greater possibility for many people. However, a pair of Dungeness also does a damn fine job of filling in from 35-55Hz very subtly and accurately.
The upper volume limit, just like the Orcas, is simply excursion limited, meaning that you can gently bottom them out without damage to the driver cone. Just like the Orcas, if your amp is up to the task of cone control, then there is almost zero compression or distortion leading up to that cone excursion limit. Like the Orcas, these have several millimeters of excursion...but on a 5 inch cone... this means that they are bass monsters!
Followers of our design philosophy will also take note that I simply don't put anything out there that can't play equally well at low, medium and high volumes and the Mola's fit the bill here as well. They are well rounded performers for "real world" meaning every day music listening, most of which takes place well below that upper limit.
The highs and mids are just awesome as well. The sound leaps way outside of the speaker cabinet and portrays a tremendous soundstage that you just wouldn't guess is coming from such a driver.
Normally, I stay away from metal dust caps, but in this case it is well executed and the highs sound natural, neutral, detailed. When you tube roll/tune your system around to these drivers/cabinets then the results are particularly satisfying. They are slightly brighter in presentation than the Orcas which is a trait that lends itself well to even larger rooms, higher volumes. But the brightness is not of the same quality as so many other FR's that practically chase you out of the room. I'd call them simply "awake" rather than "bright."
The two different driver models (FX120 vs. F120A) are to be chosen from in the following way:
-F120A, is "sultry." It has slightly greater micro-dynamic resolution, slightly more relaxed high frequencies, ever so slightly less bass extension, but still very nice, plump, and warm "Blumenstein bass." The "Alnico sound" of this driver shows up a little differently than most alnico vs. ferrite driver comparisons. I am actually chocking this up to Fostex's perfect execution of both the ferrite and Alnico magnets behind these drivers. Both these models are clearly geared towards accurate, studio monitor type sound rather than the typical budget FR's, the vast majority of which, to me, frankly, usually just sound like a gussied up pair of guitar amp speakers. On the other hand, these "laboratory series" fostex have a very different, and depending upon how long back you look, at it, a very old pedigree behind them (like the FE83En Orca driver) and the legacy is apparent upon the first few seconds of hearing them. In other words, either the ferrite or alnico is a winner, but choose the Alnico for a more relaxed, night time sound.
-The FX120 is "sexy." Neutral, awake, alive, totally engaging, and thunderous. It is also very deeply nuanced and subtle. It is the balanced choice for most people. It's what works the best in our particular listening room and electronics, for instance, which tend to slightly soften the sound. So these corresponding traits compliment each other.
We are expecting a high demand for the Mola at first, so we already purchased several pairs of Mola parts (wood and drivers) to have on hand for the release. But even still, the first batch will likely go pretty quick. If you are interested, then get in touch with us sooner than later to either register your interest for updates or just go ahead and secure a spot in line with a pre-order. The pricing isnt finalized yet but like the Orcas we are going to be reasonable about it. We want to sell alot of these so that there are more awesome speakers in the world!
Feel free to email me at [email protected]. And if you're not already on our newsletter list, you can sign up on our website for up-to-date announcements. Also, our company facebook page is a good bet too.
Cheers!
-Clark
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Wow Clark, what you lacked in speed you more than made up for in detailed information, thanks! That was way more than I expected.
This sounds like a very exciting project! I see that the F120A (ALNICO) driver is approx. twice as expensive as the FX120. If it's not clearly "better", than the FX120 would be appear to be the better value. However, there's just something about tubes and ALNICO, ALNICO and tubes.
Thanks again for the very detailed reply.
Gerry
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I was lucky enough to be able to go listen to the Molas over Record Store day. Clark & Molly may correct me but I think they had in the FX120 drivers. Which look sexy as hell by the way.
They certainly were very clear sounding and had the same sort of quickness that I like so much about the Orcas. One thing that majorly surprised me was just how much of the lows they put out! (at least until they drop off frequency wise.) After half an hour or so I asked - so you have the sub-woofers on right? Nope. Clark called it thunderous in his description of the speakers and he ain't kidding.
They seemed very flat and I couldn't hear them doing anything harsh/offensive with any of the music that was played. Usually I listen to music at a quieter level than most, but with these I really didn't mind at all when they were cranked- I actually preferred it! They sounded so at ease putting out higher sound levels.
Winners. 8)
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Hi Clark. The Mola sounds interesting!
Curious why you favor the Paramount 300B? Do you prefer the 300B sound with these speakers? Do these speakers need a bit more power?
I was just about ready to pull the trigger on Orcas/Dungeness because I want speakers that will work great with either 2A3s or 45s. Is 2-4 watts just not quite enough power for these speakers?
Dave
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Dear Dave; I play my Classic Orca/Buf Subs in an 18+x14+x8 foot room amplified by a Custom BH stereo 2A3 amp built for me by Paul Birkeland. I have 27 steps on the TVC volume controls, and never play the combination over the 14 click mark. This means 90 Db in room plus an occasional peak a bit higher. I have seldom wanted more power in this system, despite the attractions of the 300B tube.
Cheers, Hank
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Thanks Hank. Rereading my post, I see that it was confusing.
I was about to go ahead and buy Orcas, because Grainger, Paully and Brad convinced me that a 2A3 or 45 amp was powerful enough for the Orcas.
The Mola sounds interesting too, and I wonder if I should consider buying the Mola instead of the Orca, but I am wondering if a 2A3 or 45 amp is powerful enough for the Molas. I ask that because reading Clark's other posts, he SEEMS to like the Stereomour, either as 2A3 or SR45, on the Orcas but likes the Paramount 300B on the Molas. I was wondering if Clark just prefers the sound of a 300B with the Mola (even though a 45 amp may be powerful enough), or whether maybe a 2A3 amp just isn't powerful enough for the Mola.
It's a case where I want to build a 45 or 2A3 amp, and plan to buy speakers I can use with this new amp.
Dave
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The Mola sounds interesting too, and I wonder if I should consider buying the Mola instead of the Orca, but I am wondering if a 2A3 or 45 amp is powerful enough for the Molas. I ask that because reading Clark's other posts, he SEEMS to like the Stereomour, either as 2A3 or SR45, on the Orcas but likes the Paramount 300B on the Molas. I was wondering if Clark just prefers the sound of a 300B with the Mola (even though a 45 amp may be powerful enough), or whether maybe a 2A3 amp just isn't powerful enough for the Mola.
The Molas are more efficient and will handle more power, so you could use a larger amp, but it wouldn't appear to be necessary.
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Thanks Paul. That's what I wanted to know! I have had several 300 B amps and want to try out a 2A3 or 45. Sounds like either the Orca or Mola will work just fine.
Dave
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I am wondering if a 2A3 or 45 amp is powerful enough for the Molas. I ask that because reading Clark's other posts, he SEEMS to like the Stereomour, either as 2A3 or SR45, on the Orcas but likes the Paramount 300B on the Molas. I was wondering if Clark just prefers the sound of a 300B with the Mola (even though a 45 amp may be powerful enough), or whether maybe a 2A3 amp just isn't powerful enough for the Mola.
Mirroring an email I sent to Dave in answer to this question earlier, just speaking in terms of the logical layout of our soon-to-be-expanded product range, the Molas really come into focus with more powerful amps like the 300B, EL34 PP, etc.
The Orcas handle about 5 watts (class A) of "true" power, the Molas handle 25-45 watts of true power. The Orcas are 89dB sensitivity; the Molas are 90. So only 1 point up on the efficiency rating, however, the Molas handle 5-10 times the power. Seeing as the Orcas already work so well with 45 and 2A3 amps, the Molas you can expect work at least equally as well, with slightly more extension on top and bottom. Meaning, 45's and 2A3's will bring the Molas to life.
However, the real reason to spend the extra on the Mola is to be able to handle extra power. They have macro dynamic resolution potential that begs to be fed extra power at higher volumes.
-Clark
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Hey Dave,
I don't know how large your room is, but to my ears one of the most musical pairings I've ever heard was a speaker based on the Fostex F120a and a 2a3 amp. Of course my room is only 10' x 13' -- though the combination of a very good 1.6 watt el84 and the same speaker was disappointing in terms of max volume in my old room that was 14' x 30' x 9'. so it's all dependent on how loouud you listen, how much value you place in macro dynamics and your room size. Tone, ease, and overall musicality are just awesome with the f120A and a 2a3, at least to my ears, though I would have liked to hear it with a good 45 too.
-- Jim
P.S. - the Orcas are simply charming and capable as well.
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Thanks for sharing your perspective Jim. And thanks to Clark, Paully, Grainger, Brad, Hank, Paul and everyone else too. Bottleheads are the BEST!
I'm going to give Molly a call on Monday and get in line for the Molas. I do like to listen to symphonic music and rock loudly on occasion and the greater power handling and volume capability of the larger driver in the Molas will give me more flexibility for my listening preferences. I do have 300B and EL84 amps I can use if I have to for some music!
Dave
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Just to clarify -- was it the paramount 300b that was playing at record store day?
Thanks,
Jim
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Congrats Clark and Molly on your new line of speakers. They look gorgeous!....and I'm sure sound as good as they look.
I would love to hear a pair someday.
Dave
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Just to clarify -- was it the paramount 300b that was playing at record store day?
Thanks,
Jim
Jim, Kerry was mostly listening to some very warmed up paramount 300b's that day. Late in the session I plugged in a ~40WPC Heathkit EL34 PP to demonstrate what they were like at maximum volume.
As an update, I listened to the Mola/45 amp combo again with "normal" National Union and Sylvania tubes (I.E. not my EML Globe 45 tubes) on some more difficult music and I realize that they don't quite carry as much power as I was experiencing with the EML's. So I should edit my 45 recommendation for the Mola that if you have a choice between a typical 2A3 and 45 amp, I'd probably stick with the 2A3's as the minimum power requirement.
While a "hot rod" 45 amp like our SR45's is nice with the Mola's up close, in a smallish room at low volumes...etc and it's actually the Orca speaker that is truly geared towards this ultra low power/small room listening domain. Though in general there is some overlap between the Orca and Mola capabilities, practically speaking, the added price of the Molas is probably better justified when a higher volume capability is needed (though they also sound great at low volumes, of course).
Cheers,
Clark
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Clark,
Great and thanks for re-checking this. My F120A speaker really couldn't cut it for much more than background music with my 1.6 watt SE el84 amp. I loved that amp so very reluctantly sold the speakers which I also loved. And of course, later on sold the amp too (that was Bottlehead's fault :-) ), so live and learn.
I sold the speakers to a neighbor who is driving them with a rather inexpensive PP el84 (15 watts) and they sound great now.
-- Jim
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Hi folks, we are currently offering introductory pricing on the Mola's
http://www.blumensteinaudio.com/mola-fullrange/
Its a great time to hop on board!
Enjoy the Memorial day weekend!
Clark
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Hi Clark,
Can you confirm something for me? The Mola page says that the birch molas are made of 1/2" birch, while the plyboo ones are 3/4". Is this atypo oris there a reason for this difference in wall thickness?
Thanks,
Jim
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Hi Clark,
Can you confirm something for me? The Mola page says that the birch molas are made of 1/2" birch, while the plyboo ones are 3/4". Is this atypo oris there a reason for this difference in wall thickness?
Thanks,
Jim
Jim,
Thanks for asking!
The Classic Centerset version of the Mola is built as a 1/2 inch Birch cabinet in order to match height/width/depth to any 1/2 inch dungeness we've made. Now, these Centerset cabinets do look a little funny in pictures, but everyone who drops by says that they are more charming in person. It happens to be the Home Theater Center Channel and also the truly "IKEA expedit ready" version of the Mola, because it is the same external dimensions as a Dungeness, which is also at home in every way when set (humbly) inside an Expedit.
Alternatively, Centerset Mola's can stack on top of a pair of any 1/2 inch Dungeness we've ever made to become a truly big horsepower bookshelf, and its all surprisingly straightforward to hook up. If there isn't enough height for the double stack, then the Mola's/Dungeness could also be placed in formations inside of expedits and they still sound great. (can you tell that I like the IKEA Expedit?)
We also built a Chocolate Deluxe Mola Centerset and the sound improved in a similar fashion to the differences between Orca Classic and Deluxe which was kind of cool to hear happen.
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Now to answer your question about wall thickness: we have not yet made a pair of Classic Mola Fullrange cabinets in Birch so I couldn't tell you exactly. However, based upon the solid results that we got from the pair of Chocolate Deluxe Fullrange layout Mola cabinets which we did make, we are definitely going to be opting for 3/4" Birch in the Classic version as well for the Front, Back, Top and Bottom, and Sides. All 3/4 becomes necessary in a bigger cabinet like the Fullrange keeps down resonances because of the greater surface area to volume relationship in this cabinet profile (as compared to the Centerset).
However, we are willing to built in either 1/2 or 3/4 in birch or bamboo by custom order (especially in order to match pre-existing gear).
Oh BTW, we recently built some shorter, beefier format stand columns for the Mola series, I'll have to put up some pictures soon!
Clark
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Just wanted to leak a few photos of a new floorstander model using the same Fostex 5" driver as the Molas (they'll be offered with the alnico version as well) ;)
Folks who've watched Clark's work for awhile will likely recognize the inspiration from the now discontinued Naga design. These are in birch with walnut faces and have an integrated passive subwoofer.
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Just wanted to leak a few photos of a new floorstander model using the same Fostex 5" driver as the Molas (they'll be offered with the alnico version as well) ;)
Folks who've watched Clark's work for awhile will likely recognize the inspiration from the now discontinued Naga design. These are in birch with walnut faces and have an integrated passive subwoofer.
Hey Molly:
Since no one else has, I'll bite! Besides, I started this Mola thread and an integrated floor stander is even more exciting!
I know it's early but any information on name, price, sensitivity, impedance, frequency response, availability, etc? Thanks!
Gerry
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I know it's early but any information on name, price, sensitivity, impedance, frequency response, availability, etc? Thanks!
Gerry
Hi Gerry!
More info here: http://www.blumensteinaudio.com/mako-floorstander/