Digital audio "this week's version"

xcortes · 3018

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Offline xcortes

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on: April 22, 2013, 11:03:01 AM
Sorry Doc for stealing your phrase.

"There's been a lot of talk (maybe, maybe too much talk)" about digital on this forum lately. And as I decided to take the plunge (again), I've been studying a lot (as if I didn't have more productive things to do).

Here's my learnings, conclusions and decisions:

When digital audio is converted to analog there's a series of phantom signals, identical to the original one, occurring at half the sample rate and another one at each multiple of it. In the case of redbook the first sits at 22.05khz.

The original redbook players had very steep "brickwall" filters above 20khz to eliminate those in the analog domain. Steep filters are complicated and have problems (mostly phase related) so Philips started "upsampling" to push the aliases higher on the spectrum and adding digital filters, thus messing with the signal and creating digital artifacts. Everyone followed. (Delta sigma).

At some point the diy community started experimenting with filterless dacs without upsampling (r2r) or filters. And it sounded better! Of course there's the aliases but even those are better than the stupid digital manipulation of the signal.

It's clear to me that nos MUST be better. The question is how to deal with the aliases. Some people use mild filters, others use transformers (steep filters without the extra circuit), and yet others do nothing.

For my current digital experiment I'll use WE 755A than don't reach aliasing frequencies. Still I think those images can impact the circuits so I'll try removing them.

My plan is comparing a totl Audio Note kit (NOS filterless with two sets of transformers in the audio path) with the upcoming BH dac (current iteration has only a first order filter). And try both dacs with a couple of additional sets of MQ transformers (input and output of the preamp) as well as 1st order pllxo before the pre and before the amps. and play getting those in and out of the circuit.

I may be crazy (but it just may be a lunatic you're looking for).

Saludos
« Last Edit: April 22, 2013, 11:32:17 AM by xcortes »

Xavier Cortes


Offline xcortes

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Reply #1 on: April 22, 2013, 11:33:32 AM
On thing I didn't mention is that maybe one reason why hi rez sounds better is because there's less messing with the signal (no upsampling). Of course I'm still undecided as to whether the actual sample rate has something to do.

Xavier Cortes


Offline earwaxxer

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Reply #2 on: April 22, 2013, 02:22:54 PM
Hey Xavier - I can relate to what you are thinking about, as I'm sure many of us DIY'ers can. Thats one reason why I like using a computer as a transport, that allows me to play a file that has been 'manipulated' in various ways digitally and see (hear) which one sounds the 'best'. Of course, you have to start with a NOS DAC so that the DAC doesnt ruin what you did by upsampling etc. Minimum filters (vs. linear) are the rage, and I do think they sound better. The algorithm seems to be important as well - I like Sox. Lots of fun options to keep us busy!

Eric
Emotiva XPA-2, Magnepan MMG (mod), Quickie (mod), JRiver, Wyrd4sound uLink, Schiit Gungnir, JPS Digital power cord, MIT power cord, JPS Labs ultraconductor wire throughout, HSU sub. powered by Crown.


Offline Doc B.

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Reply #3 on: April 22, 2013, 04:48:14 PM
Quote
the upcoming BH dac (current iteration has only a first order filter)

Current iteration is a key phrase here - next one (hopefully finished in the next month) is enough different that I can't say what the output configuration will end up being. We have two quite different DAC chips competing here, and I wouldn't want anyone to make commitments regarding their other system purchases based upon a product we are still developing and can't firmly state specs for.

Dan "Doc B." Schmalle
President For Life
Bottlehead Corp.


Offline xcortes

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Reply #4 on: April 22, 2013, 04:56:32 PM
Ooops. I just ordered three sets of transformers :)

Xavier Cortes


Offline Doc B.

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Reply #5 on: April 22, 2013, 04:59:23 PM
Your wife will never notice them among the other 1500 transformers in your transformer gallery.

Dan "Doc B." Schmalle
President For Life
Bottlehead Corp.


Offline xcortes

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Reply #6 on: April 22, 2013, 05:12:38 PM
These are small

Xavier Cortes


Offline 2wo

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Reply #7 on: April 22, 2013, 05:44:58 PM
If you need to, you can send me some of the big ones. I''ll hide them for you 8)...John

John S.


Offline xcortes

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Reply #8 on: April 22, 2013, 05:48:00 PM
I have a pair of BACs that are a little too big

Xavier Cortes