Bottlehead Forum

Bottlehead Kits => Crack => Topic started by: Ankaret on June 01, 2014, 04:27:57 PM

Title: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: Ankaret on June 01, 2014, 04:27:57 PM
I assembled my crack (first DIY kit like this) a few days ago and just can't seem to get it running, the fuse keeps blowing. Im using .5 A 250v slow blow fuses from radio shack. I completed the resistance check and everything checked out as it should. It doesn't make sense to do a voltage check since the fuse is immediately blowing, right?

Here's what Ive done to troubleshoot:

First time I fired it up a fuse blew. Second time I replaced the fuse and the tubes lit up just barely (not a full glow), and something around 13L/14L gave off some smoke. I immediately unplugged. I should also mention that this time the power transformer got very hot very quickly, to the point of beginning to heat shrink the numbered Bottlehead label stuck underneath it. The label is still on, but it's all bubbly now. Do you guys think I need a part replaced given the smoke? How to test and figure out which part needs replacing?

Some more info of what happened...

AFTER THIS...

1) I went through carefully to make sure things were all soldered solidly and no excess wires were touching anything they weren't supposed to. I found that I had forgotten to solder one end of the 270 5w resistors (15L) and a couple hooked wires on B8 and B7, so I soldered those.

2) As I went through the manual again point by point to see if Id missed anything, I noticed I had one of the bands going the wrong way on a rectifier diode (specifically, 20L and 18L were reversed), so I flipped that diode around to correct it.

3) Nothing else I could find, I did the resistance check again and everything is reading as it should be, but trying to fire it up the fuse blows on me immediately as I plug it in still...

Thank you in advance for any troubleshooting help!
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: STURMJ on June 01, 2014, 04:34:10 PM
switch to 1A fast blow, I believe this is a bottlehead approved fuse. I had this problem too and the 1A fixed it.
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: Ankaret on June 01, 2014, 04:52:24 PM
Ok Ill give this a shot tomorrow. Thanks!
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: mcandmar on June 01, 2014, 05:06:35 PM
Do NOT do that, if you have a short the last thing you want to do is put a higher rated fuse in there until you fix the problem.  Its possible the capacitor or transformer could be damaged so i would wait for a bit of guidance from the BH guys before doing anything.
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: Paul Birkeland on June 01, 2014, 05:51:47 PM
It's entirely possible that you have one of the 220uF caps in backwards. 

Often times, posting photos of your build can help us pick out what might be amiss. 
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: Ankaret on June 02, 2014, 02:23:42 PM
Ok I tried the 1A fuse today (before reading the above post about NOT doing so...) and still blowing. I also re-soldered/checked the direction of the caps and as far as I can tell it looks right.

Have no idea what's up, what to do? Below are some pics. I know the build is not very clean, but I was careful with solder joints and took my time and made sure things went where they were supposed to.

(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi633.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu51%2Fkirillnikolai%2FIMG_2197_zps2eb9f50a.jpg&hash=a0e726cc5a8d70742997f846cc545e2f4493a6d1)

(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi633.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu51%2Fkirillnikolai%2FIMG_2196_zps5c1f73d3.jpg&hash=59055cb8db72c6ebc2d839382114640356db1243)

(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi633.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu51%2Fkirillnikolai%2FIMG_2198_zps188ef845.jpg&hash=8d0c5aa8c9eceab165329fae569eb3cc1750b164)

(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi633.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu51%2Fkirillnikolai%2FIMG_2192_zpsa8d94821.jpg&hash=ffc7331c9f3430822778f7faff013564bc80d674)

(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi633.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu51%2Fkirillnikolai%2FIMG_2189_zps35d6a48c.jpg&hash=8525dce808d7f993a534b17f9a01cadd0e2b07a6)

(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi633.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu51%2Fkirillnikolai%2FIMG_2190_zps09fa840c.jpg&hash=d283f8e845dba5325f61d6771b923b36b9d0d79b)

(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi633.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu51%2Fkirillnikolai%2FIMG_2193_zpsd4f9939e.jpg&hash=7c8a865ac6a4043e8fb5be757804255840b15c7c)

(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi633.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu51%2Fkirillnikolai%2FIMG_2194_zps024e29a9.jpg&hash=56aa7b49c4f35ad5a21775635b4681da1fccd870)

(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi633.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu51%2Fkirillnikolai%2FIMG_2195_zpsd7fa0b2e.jpg&hash=654b149962f57e237a34c577850493ff4bfd956f)

(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi633.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu51%2Fkirillnikolai%2FIMG_2188_zps4e29471e.jpg&hash=e989f1557c8642474599081bd372715b1a645408)

(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi633.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu51%2Fkirillnikolai%2FIMG_2184_zpse6e5211a.jpg&hash=f098fbdbb7b01bfbd631ac587df03dc73d7ba383)

(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi633.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu51%2Fkirillnikolai%2FIMG_2186_zps188b984f.jpg&hash=95bf17d893adaea8415fa62b0de117911c9b3abb)

(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi633.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu51%2Fkirillnikolai%2FIMG_2185_zps5f0f4117.jpg&hash=5b1bd4c476feed1bdcc59e8d1299fa09c4fee770)

(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi633.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu51%2Fkirillnikolai%2FIMG_2187_zpsa950d4af.jpg&hash=01c1725eb0b4512a9cf06d3187588fd88a553dcd)


Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: Grainger49 on June 02, 2014, 02:40:30 PM
Sorry, it might just be me but I don't see any pictures.  There is a large blank space there.
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: Chris65 on June 02, 2014, 03:10:00 PM
Can't see them either.
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: Ankaret on June 02, 2014, 03:17:40 PM
Sorry about that, should be fixed now.
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: 2wo on June 02, 2014, 04:41:31 PM
You mentioned that you had one of the filter caps reversed, might consider replacing it...John
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: Ankaret on June 02, 2014, 05:39:28 PM
Would that have been the most likely thing to burn up? If I recall correctly that wasn't where smoke was coming from. Is there a good way to test whether one of the particular components was fried?
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: Grainger49 on June 03, 2014, 01:12:17 AM
The caps are all correct.  I see the diodes on one side are right but can't clearly see the diodes on the transformer side of the terminal strip.  They should have the banded end away from Terminal 19.

The two tube sockets are correctly oriented.  This trips some folks up.

Blowing the fuse is most often, but not always, a problem back at the power supply.  And I am looking as closely as possible at the incoming wiring.  I'll save the pictures and take a closer look.

Other times something is shorted together or to ground in the circuit.  Since you have looked at this for a while, get a buddy to look at it while you call out what should be.
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: Paul Birkeland on June 03, 2014, 04:52:02 AM
This is a potential hazard spot.  Long leads like this really need to be trimmed. There are also many, many wires in your Crack that called for a 1/4" of insulation to be stripped, but have enough insulation removed that they can touch nearby components.  Just check to be sure that a wire soldered to a given terminal isn't touching something else.   

I agree about the backwards cap, toss it out and replace it. 
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: Ankaret on June 03, 2014, 09:41:34 AM
Hi, thanks for looking at this and for the suggestions.

That spot with the write is actually the excess from a rectifier diode. I mistakenly above mentioned that I had reversed a capacitor, but that was not right, it was one of the rectifier diodes (little black things) that was reversed the first time I fired it up. Should I replace this rectifier diode?? Where can I buy a quality one like that which came in the kit?

Also, given that this was what was reversed, might it have fried anything else? Still looking for any other help or ideas.

I did look over any long stripped lead areas carefully, and as far as I can tell did my best to make sure they're isolated and nowhere near making contact with anything else. That weird long diode lead that you pointed out (thanks for catching that!) is the worst it gets from what I can see.
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: Ankaret on June 03, 2014, 09:45:18 AM
The caps are all correct.  I see the diodes on one side are right but can't clearly see the diodes on the transformer side of the terminal strip.  They should have the banded end away from Terminal 19.


The diodes on the power transformer side have one band facing into 21L and the other band facing the other direction into 18L as per the manual. Hope that's where it should be. But the first time I fired it up I had the one that should be facing 21L facing the wrong direction.
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: Paul Birkeland on June 03, 2014, 11:27:09 AM
Yeah, a backwards diode is a dead diode. 

The part is specifically a UF-4007.  A 1N4007 would also work, but not quite as well.

An NTE-575 would likely be available locally to you at a retail outlet selling electronic components.  (IE Fry's or your favorite local joint)
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: Ankaret on June 03, 2014, 03:33:38 PM
Im in Seattle, anybody have good recommendations of places to look for a replacement diode?

Seems like Radioshack is about all there is in town...

If I need to order the UF4007, is there anything else I should grab while Im at it that you think would have a high likelihood of needing replacing in my situation?

Thanks for the help as always.
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: kgoss on June 03, 2014, 04:16:19 PM
Since you are in Seattle getting them directly from Bottlehead should be quick. That's what I would do if I lived that close to BH headquarters.
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: caffeinator on June 03, 2014, 04:30:46 PM
Another thing comes to mind, particularly after seeing the long lead in one of the photos.

I had a very similar problem while building my FPIII.  My build was pretty sanitary, good-looking wiring, resistance checks all normal, but it would instantaneously blow fuses as soon as the power was turned on.  I checked it over and over, tried some higher amperage fuses and still they'd instantaneously blow.

I was starting to tear it down when I found a possible problem - a solder drip that had left a kind of solder stalactite (or stalagmite for those in Australia) that came within about 1mm of the the chassis plate.  As I verified by trying once more with the lights out, the solderlactite was close enough to allow an arc that blew the fuse.  Since it wasn't contacting, it didn't throw the resistance check, making it a pretty confounding problem.

So, if it's not bad wiring or blown components, look all over very carefully for an errant lead, solder blob or any other cause of intermittent shorting contact.
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup [update]
Post by: rlyach on June 03, 2014, 05:15:11 PM
One more thing to consider. If you did have one of the diodes in backwards, chances are that two diodes were damaged. The full wave rectifier uses two diodes to steer the current in the right direction through the rest of the circuit. Then during the other phase the other two diodes steer the current. If one of the diodes is in backwards, it provides a direct current path back to the transformer without going through the rest of the circuit. Consequently, all the high current would have gone through two diodes, and you should replace two or even all four of them. Since your transformer got very hot, it would confirm a direct short across the secondary winding, and a backwards diode is a reasonable explanation for this. A metal short from long leads is another.

[Attached is the diagram of the current flow through the full wave bridge rectifier with proper diode orientation (Good). The positive current flows in the direction that the diode symbol points. During the positive cycle, the current follows the red path. During the negative cycle, the current follows the green path. The bad circuit with the reversed diode shows that during the positive cycle the current simply flows through the two diodes and back to the transformer, creating a high current short. Both of these diodes should be replaced. You don't have to replace the other two if you know which one is reversed and compare it to the circuit. If you just want to be safe, replace all the diodes.]
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: Ankaret on June 04, 2014, 08:21:54 PM
I requested 4 replacement diodes from bottlehead today, so hopefully that invoice will come through soon and I can try replacing them in hopes of that solving things.

Also, I believe it was Josh(?) that I talked to, and he mentioned that I should double check I got the right transformer (120V, even though he thought mine was accidentally labeled as 240V). One way to check he said was to look for about 12ohm resistance between transformer terminals 1 and 2. But Im getting a reading of only 6 ohms here, what do you all think? Something wrong with my power transformer?
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: rlyach on June 05, 2014, 06:16:55 AM
I just measured my transformer, and I get ~12 ohms of DC resistance on the primary winding of the mains transformer. If you are getting 6 then I would assume you have half the windings and thus you probably have a 240V transformer. I will let one of the guys at BH confirm this.
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: fullheadofnothing on June 05, 2014, 07:32:05 AM
That is incorrect. A 240V PT-3 measures about 45Ω. I think Kyrill has a 120V transformer, and the exact reason that it is measuring lower than normal is unknown (quite possibly related to the method of measurement). What is important to know here is that it is not a higher reading, indicating that it is a 240V.

I knew that a few 120V PT-3 were mislabeled, and I was asking for confirmation that this was why a 240V label was visible.
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: rlyach on June 05, 2014, 08:04:37 AM
If that is the case... Then would a 6 ohm reading indicate a partially shorted primary winding?
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: fullheadofnothing on June 05, 2014, 08:10:32 AM
Some meters don't do well measuring low resistances. Some don't do well measuring inductive resistances. Placement of probes on the terminals has a major influence on the measurement, particularly when not using clip leads. Solder and flux on the terminals will influence measurement. There will be some variation from sample to sample of what a transformer will measure.

It is not measuring high, and that was my concern.
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: Ankaret on June 05, 2014, 10:45:46 AM
Thanks for weighing in Josh, and catching the reason to test this out just in case in the first place. Ill rest assured that Ive got the right transformer and wait for the diodes to arrive and keep my fingers crossed this does the trick.
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: Ankaret on June 07, 2014, 01:04:57 PM
Got replacement diodes (thanks for the speed Bottlehead) and replaced all four just to be safe, all oriented correctly, carefully soldered etc. and STILL won't start without blowing the fuse...

What makes sense to try next? Getting a little flustered...any help is greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: NightFlight on June 07, 2014, 07:35:20 PM
You replaced the cap that was powered the wrong way around?   I can't see from the photos how the power switch is wired. One pin should have L on it and the other go to pin 1 of the transformer. I pretty certain that is what you have, but I couldn't tell for sure.
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: Ankaret on June 07, 2014, 07:55:28 PM
It was actually a rectifier diode that was wired the wrong way. And yes, Ive replaced all four of the diodes, now positioned correctly. For the power switch, one pin goes to 1 on the transformer, and the other is connected to a power cord socket pin. Should be correct.
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: Ankaret on June 07, 2014, 07:57:27 PM
In terms of build errors, from my original post this might be noteworthy:

"I found that I had forgotten to solder one end of the 270 5w resistors (15L)" and something started to smoke around that area when I first tried to power it up. What might need replacing or checking there? If something was smoking, probably a good chance another component there is blown?
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: NightFlight on June 08, 2014, 05:10:31 AM
Well, in the power supply, there are just caps and resistors left. I woudn't have a clue how to ensure the transformer is still good.  If you like toys, it would be a good excuse (for me) to purchase a cap testing equipment.

Or you can put a small charge on the caps and see if they charge/discharge. They would have to be removed from the circuit to test. A PITA, but possibly necessary.  They also can't maintain heat on their legs for a terribly long time. The datasheet might have more in that regard. If  you do pull them, make sure everything is discharged. I found several residual voltages the other day while I was poking around.  I found 183V on my one output cap the other day. Don't know how it got there - possibly the multimeter, but I certainly found it when I touched post #6 by accident.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDuN7QHn1-s
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: fullheadofnothing on June 08, 2014, 07:50:02 AM
Far more useful then testing capacitors would be doing the resistance checks from the manual. If there is a terminal that reads less than 1Ω and is not specified as being 0Ω, that would be the problem.

If that fails to find the problem, go through the wiring section of the manual, carefully, step by step. Confirm that every single component and wire is soldered EXACTLY where and how it is specified in the manual. Close is not close enough.
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: Paul Birkeland on June 08, 2014, 09:24:31 AM
Josh is quite correct.  If you pass the resistance checks, let us know, as I have another idea about how to systematically eliminate potential issues.
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: Ankaret on June 08, 2014, 12:27:16 PM
Ive been through resistance checks and they all check out perfectly. Last time I went through it all was just after replacing the four rectifier diodes.

I have also been through the manual step by step again, but I guess Ill spend some time doing that again.

Any other ideas?

Thanks all
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: Doc B. on June 08, 2014, 12:53:48 PM
You probably need to disconnect the power transformer from the rest of the high voltage circuit first and run it by itself to be sure it wasn't damaged.
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: Ankaret on June 08, 2014, 01:17:37 PM
How would I go about doing that? Just unsolder everything connected to the power transformer minus the LED coming from the on switch?

And how would I know that it's running correctly?
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: NightFlight on June 08, 2014, 03:28:15 PM
Sorry guys. Don't listen to me. I was attempting to be helpful, but might have missed the mark entirely. :)
Watching this thread... its an interesting bug.
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: Doc B. on June 08, 2014, 04:19:05 PM
The power switch we supply does not have an LED so you have lost me there. You want to disconnect the red wire that goes from power transformer terminal 9 to t-strip terminal 19L. Disconnect it at the power transformer. Fire up the amp and see if the fuse holds. If it does, turn tthe am off, set your meter for AC volts, at least 250VAC. Connect the red meter test lead to power transformer terminal 9 and the black test lead to power transformer terminal 10. Turn the amp on an measure the AC voltage across those two terminals.
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: Ankaret on June 08, 2014, 06:59:43 PM
So I disconnected the wire that goes from power transformer terminal 9 to 19L, at the power transformer. Note: I left the other red wire connected to 9, the one that is part of the double wind that goes to terminal 6 on the transformer, correct? Then tried to fire it up and fuse still blew...does this mean the transformer is acting up?

Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: Doc B. on June 09, 2014, 04:17:37 AM
My hunch is that the 6 ohm reading instead of 12 indicates that the high voltage secondary has some shorted turns from the backwards diode. To be thorough I should have mentioned removing the tubes to take them out of the equation too. If you had the tubes in the sockets you might want to try it again with the tubes out. I suspect it will still blow the fuse. The only other possibility left after that is a short somewhere around the IEC power inlet. But that would be more likely to blow the fuse as soon as the amp was plugged in whether it was switched on or not.
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: Ankaret on June 09, 2014, 09:31:21 AM
I did have the tubes out actually, so those are ruled out.

Anything else I should test before throwing my hands up and looking at how expensive it's gonna be to buy a replacement transformer? :(

Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: Paul Birkeland on June 09, 2014, 09:56:04 AM
Be sure the twisted pair of wires that jumpers the two power transformer windings together is installed properly.

If you switched them on one end, you will blow fuses indefinitely. 
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: Ankaret on June 09, 2014, 10:08:43 AM
These look good, red goes from 6 to 9, and black goes from 7 to 10.
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: Ankaret on June 09, 2014, 10:11:12 AM
Also, I did follow this revision: "REVISION 5/6/10:
Making  this  wire  3”  long  and   connecting it to Terminal 14U instead of terminal 22L may yield more quiet operation."

Should I try 22L instead, or that wouldn't have much if anything to do with my issue?
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: Doc B. on June 09, 2014, 10:13:58 AM
One last thing that is a bit of a stretch would be to ask that you are sure the fuse is blowing when you throw the power switch. If it is instead blowing before you power up - right when you plug in the power cord with the amp switch set to off position - it is conceivable that there could be a short in the IEC receptacle wiring
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: Ankaret on June 09, 2014, 10:31:56 AM
As per the manual, when I plug it into the wall socket, the power switch is turned to on already. Should I check and see if it blows when plugged in and the switch is off first?
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: Ankaret on June 09, 2014, 10:34:06 AM
Just plugged it in with power switch off and fuse did not blow.
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: Doc B. on June 09, 2014, 10:47:52 AM
OK, that pretty much makes the power trans the chief suspect. Since you have to remove all the wires to replace it, if you are willing to blow one more fuse you can absolutely verify that it's the transformer. Try disconnecting all the wires from power transformer terminals 4,5,6,7,9 and 10. Just leave 1 and 2 connected. If the fuse still blows when powered up it's definitely the power trans.
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: Ankaret on June 09, 2014, 11:50:09 AM
Ok ill give that a shot when I get home tonight. Thanks for the quick help!
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: Ankaret on June 09, 2014, 06:16:15 PM
Ok so the fuse blew with just the power transformer (1 and 2) connected. Is it all broken and I need a new one? Or is there some way to fix it up?
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: Paul Birkeland on June 09, 2014, 07:08:38 PM
This is probably a very, very good time to use our flat rate repair service.

Though this service doesn't cover iron, if there is some latent issue doing this kind of damage, we can figure it out for you.

A replacement PT-3 runs about $75 I believe, and we are fairly insistent on receiving the old PT-3 back (there are some DIY pitfalls with the PT-3 if it ends up in unrelated projects).
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: Ankaret on June 10, 2014, 03:00:06 PM
Thanks for the help everyone. This went from very fun to very frustrating very fast. I guess it was silly of me not to realize before trying to build a nice amp for my 650s just how easy it would be for a small mistake to screw up a ton of crucial components and quickly put me way over my head financially just to get it running at all (have no idea how it even sounds yet and if it's all worth the time, effort and money).

EDIT: sorry just feeling discouraged and I don't have money to send it anywhere for a fix :( graduate student budget was already stretched past it's limits.
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: Doc B. on June 10, 2014, 03:57:42 PM
Since you found what appears to have been the problem that blew the transformer and you fixed it, it's possible that replacing the transformer yourself will get you up and running with no further issues. I know it can be frustrating, but you ain't learnin' s**t unless you blow some stuff up once in a while. I could probably build a mountain with my mistake pile. I'm building a motorcycle right now and I've probably thrown away 25% of a second bike in the process, not to mention reordering the finishing materials twice.
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: Paul Birkeland on June 10, 2014, 05:31:57 PM
Yeah, I can commiserate. 

On a very high end build a few years back, I got everything built and went on to initial voltage checks and things looked very odd.  It turned out that the output transformers that I purchased (new, from a well reputed dealer) had open primaries.  After all that work, I had to chuck some very expensive output iron in the trash and scrounge for replacements (luckily Mike at Magnequest had some DS-025's for me). 

The biggest hurdles in amp building provide the richest eduction.

-PB
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: Ankaret on June 10, 2014, 07:08:20 PM
Yeah I hear what you guys are saying, and at the same time Im stuck feeling ambivalent about how to proceed. Given that I saw something smoking by one of the capacitors when I first fired it up if I recall correctly, Im just wondering what the odds are that I spend a ton of money on a new transformer and hook it all up again only to find it's not working and end up having to start replacing the whole damn thing piece by piece and paying off my credit card for months to come.

It's sad but almost feels like Id rather save up for another kit and start all fresh sometime in the future. This first crack kit for some reason already also had a slightly crooked drilled power transformer hole in the face plate, so it also isn't aesthetically the most pleasing thing to look at either...even if it was working right now :( I know Josh mentioned the face plates are all laser cut when I talked to him, but somehow mine got screwed up a bit and isn't quite straight for sure.   
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: Ankaret on June 12, 2014, 01:10:11 PM
Also what is meant by the flat rate repair fee not covering iron? Im stuck wondering what to do. Scared of spending hundreds more dollars I dont have to get it working, but the useless metal heap of assembled parts into which Ive already invested almost $400 sitting in my living room is doing literally nothing for me as well. So I either pay for flat fee repair, or order another power transformer? And in either case, pray hard that this will be the fix without needing to buy and replace more potentially blown out parts?

Any ideas or other options would be appreciated. Any other cheap amp options that Bottlehead fans would recommend? Does anyone ever buy/sell crack parts on this forum or elsewhere?
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: NightFlight on June 12, 2014, 01:35:24 PM
$400? So the speedball is there too.  The speedball kit would be still in bags?
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: Doc B. on June 12, 2014, 02:55:02 PM
It doesn't have to cost hundreds of dollars. The transformer is $75. You can put that in yourself. If you go back to the manual and follow the directions exactly the amp should work fine.

The alternative is to send it to us. Our flat rate repair service is $125 not including iron. So the total including the replacement transformer would be $200. If any parts like diodes resistors or caps needed replacing they would be replaced without any additional charge, as part of the flat rate. And in that case you would have a guarantee that the amp would work.


Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: NightFlight on June 13, 2014, 11:11:16 AM
Its hard to beat that Doc. Those are pretty minimal costs all things considered.

Ankarat,

In the spirit of community help I'd be willing to lend a hand and  shoulder the risk and purchase the kit from you if Bottlehead will sell me a PT-3 as required.  Its just another option, but I'd really suggest you just go with Bottlehead's offer, that way you still have your kit that you put together and guaranteed to work.  It's a beautiful pairing with the HD650s once working. 
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: NightFlight on June 13, 2014, 12:29:24 PM
Wait, do you have the 240V or 115V version?
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: Ankaret on June 13, 2014, 12:36:32 PM
Im clearly not good with the technical stuff, so hopefully it's whatever version would go to US customers. I live in Seattle.

And right now the only option that would guarantee my having something to plug my headphones in and enjoy listening to my records would be $200 + shipping two ways which Im guessing would be in the ballpark of $250, which is essentially the price of another crack kit or another amp...ramen noodles and credit cards here I come I guess.
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: Ankaret on June 13, 2014, 12:38:15 PM
but NightFlight that would be really helpful if you wanted to take it off my hands and if that would be alright with the bottlehead folks of course.
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: Doc B. on June 13, 2014, 12:49:50 PM
Not to make too much of this, but if you guys are doing a deal you need to do it through PMs. There are no for sale or wanted posts allowed on the forum. Secondly, you are in Seattle? I didn't know that. Why don't you just bring the amp over to our shop? PB can work with you to check it out and give you guidance on how to do the repair. The most it would cost you is the price of the transformer.
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: NightFlight on June 13, 2014, 12:59:36 PM
Hey man, there you go! Solved.  I for one wouldn't pass up the opportunity to see the shop and meet the folk.

Sorry Doc. We did PM, but I also wanted to be open about it as well. I tried to PM you directly but the site appears not to currently accept  PMs to you.  But.. its all moot.

Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: Ankaret on June 14, 2014, 11:54:03 AM
Hi Doc.

That would be a nice option to just bring it over to you guys and buy the transformer there and get it working with your help.
When could I come by? You guys aren't around on Sundays are you?
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: Paul Birkeland on June 15, 2014, 07:35:00 AM
Yeah, Sundays we are closed. 

This coming week, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Friday are great! 

-PB
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: Ankaret on June 15, 2014, 12:14:16 PM
Ok, this Monday (tomorrow) morning not so good?

If not, Ill either try to come early Tuesday (you guys open at 10am, right?) or more likely in the afternoon Wednesday. What's the latest Wednesday that you'd be there PB? Or earliest Tuesday morning?

Thanks, really looking forward to visiting!
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: Paul Birkeland on June 15, 2014, 03:29:04 PM
Tuesday morning - 10:00 AM or later looks good. 
Wednesday afternoon - I'd like to leave the office by 6 if possible.

-PB
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: Ankaret on June 16, 2014, 06:20:04 PM
Great, Ill try to swing by around 3pm on Wednesday since I get off a little early that day.
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: Ankaret on June 17, 2014, 05:59:30 PM
Bummer, too much work tomorrow. Ill either try Friday or definitely some day next week.

PB, what days might you be in next week?
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: Paul Birkeland on June 18, 2014, 05:05:07 AM
I am available at any time next week except Monday and Thursday.

-PB
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup (SOLVED)
Post by: Doc B. on June 21, 2014, 06:42:49 AM
The amp came in to the shop yesterday. The reversed rectifier diode had indeed shorted the primary winding of the power transformer, heating it to the point that the label and black tape on the coil had actually bubbled up from the coil itself.

The backwards diode had already been replaced. I put in a new transformer, checked over the rest of the assembly - which was very neat with excellent solder joints - did resistance and voltage checks and we had her playing some Ayron Jones and the Way before she left the shop.
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: Ankaret on June 22, 2014, 01:02:39 PM
As Doc B. said, taking the trip to Bottlehead HQ was well beyond worth it. Thanks again very much for spending the time looking it over and putting in the new transformer for me. Listening to it the last few days has been absolutely amazing! The amp paired with 650s is kind of re-defining music listening for me right now, I couldn't be happier.

Super blown away by the service walking into Bottlehead. I don't think Ive had that good of an experience anywhere else before, as soon as I showed up Dan basically dropped whatever was going on and prioritized his time and full attention to looking the amp over and working with it until it was up and running and even safely taped and packed for my return trip. Wow. Thanks so much! Also nice to know that it wasn't a totally screwy build on my part, just that backwards diode that wreaked havoc on the transformer the first round.

I haven't even been able to get around to finalizing the gluing or finishing of the wood because every time I go to do it I end up turning it on and just listening to music instead. I think that says a lot about a combination of my laziness and mostly how amazing this amp sounds.
Title: Re: Help with fuses blowing at startup
Post by: NightFlight on June 24, 2014, 04:38:16 PM
Thank-you for the closure on this topic.  I, like most of you were pretty certaint it was the transformer, but it's good to hear the resolution.  Ha. Most of Ankaret. 

Ankaret. Try plugging in a 5998 and a pair of Hd800. Speedball first of course. :-)

Welcome to the club.