Bottlehead Forum
Other Gear => Phono => Topic started by: berniebanks on December 18, 2011, 03:44:20 AM
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I have been running the concept for quite some time with the Arum Classics wood, which is is a great combination but i felt the table and arm could do a lot more with a better cartridge. Having just ordered not seduction I opted for the Ortofon 2M bronze which has had some mixed reviews mainly for being very revealing and analytical. Having duly mounted the cartridge, carefully aligning it setting VTA setting the tracking force to the higher end of the recommended range I cued up Dire Straits Brother in Arms and sat back to listen. Ugh, it sounded terrible, very little bass, edgy overpowering treble and mid's . I was is dispare wondering what had I done wrong. i checked everything carefully again including cartridge connections as I suspected I must have got them wrong and out of phase. Nope all was well and I could not find anything wrong. I was on the verge of pulling it out and mounting the classics wood again, but t was getting late and being frustrated I thought I had better leave it till the next day.
To cut a long stort short, I decide to give it chance an persevere with the sound in the hope it would get better with time. Oh boy am I glad I diid that:; after about 20 hours the whole character of the cartridge changed. The edgy treble was gone, the bass came in with fantastic control (unlike the classics wood which sounded bloated), the detail, clarity and soundstage just blew me away. Even after only 20 hours the 2M bronze had transformed my vinyl listening experience for the better and its still improving with every side.
Moral of the story, dont be too quick to condem something because t does not sound right straight out of the box, It really pays to persevere and allow it time to break in.
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I had the same experience with the 2M Black only it was compounded by the fact the Seduction was new as well so I didn't know where to start. So like you I left them alone for a break in period and now everything is working just great.
Mike
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I've got a seduction on order, my cartridge should be nicely broken in by the time it arrive and I've built it.
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Bernie,
This is interesting to hear. I read somewhere of a device that "broke in" a cartridge/stylus/suspension system fast. I know that such mechanical systems change their compliance with time. I wonder if there is a cheap device to do this. I don't remember the price from the review, but I'm sure it is more than I would ever be willing to pay.
Proof of this is that I have a Radio Shack carbon fiber brush ($5), not the expensive one, a copy ($20) of the gooey stuff that cleans your stylus rather than the high priced one ($60).
Maybe an electric tooth brush? Probably would tear the stylus/cantilever right out of the body. I'll keep thinking on it.
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I have had the same experience with a 2M Blue and Black, it was such an extended period compared to any other cart. I have owned, that I thought I had screwed the install, re-aligned both 2 or three times. This is a great line of carts. though, all the models perform well within their price points.
Shawn P.
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Grainger, I love your creative mind !!
Merry Christmas
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Grainger, have you considered using those Mr. Clean magic erasers on your stylus? Very, very gently and using absolutely no pressure I brush from back to front. I suppose you could go front to back, but never use a scrubbing motion.
Rich
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From what Ive read, most people just "dip" the stylus in and out of the magic eraser. Ive been using one for probably 10 years now but I do like to use the old discwasher stylus brush and fluid once in a while.
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Grainger, have you considered using those Mr. Clean magic erasers on your stylus? Very, very gently and using absolutely no pressure I brush from back to front. I suppose you could go front to back, but never use a scrubbing motion.
Rich
Rich,
I have a piece of it but it isn't as effective as the sticky stuff. It isn't enough adhesion to harm the stylus or suspension but you can see that it sticks when you lift. A cheap imitation of Zerodust.
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Its good to hear I was not the only one to observe the lengthy break in on the 2M series. They are a great cartridge if you can get past the painfull initial sound to hear them at their best.
Grainger there's been some usefull discussion on this thread on stylus cleaning as well. It will start a new thread on that topic.
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all on the forum.
For those who ordered Kits I hope Santa can get them to you.
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Shawn,
Do you still have the 2M black? If not, why? Maybe a bit too much with your old SS phono stage?
I'm considering the maestro, 2m bronze or black for use with my Concept and if anybody has heard any of these, especially on the Concept, please tell me what you think.
The Shibata stylus on the 2M black, plus the 5mv output do sound appealing, but then again, so does a lot of what's in the maestro :-).
Thanks,
Jim
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Hello all, Jim I do indeed still have the Black and the Blue. I have the Black mounted on my Linn and the Blue mounted on my Project RM 1.3. The Black is a great cart. But I have never mounted it on my Concept. I am on my week off starting weds. And I am still waiting for parts for my latest build. Maybe I'll get a wild hair up my butt and mount it on the concept, if so I'll report on what I hear. I can honestly say that I have owned my LP12 for 25 years and the Ortofon Black is the best MM cart. that I have ever had on it.
Cheers,
Shawn P.
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Thanks, Shawn. I also just remembered that one can start with the bronze and upgrade to the black later by swapping the stylus.
Thanks for the reply,
Jim
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I agree on the Black. It's been feeding my Eros from day one: best MM cartridge I've ever listened to.
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You are right Jim I believe they have the same body, it's the Shibata stylus that costs so much.
Cheers,
Shawn P.
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Well, an update for any of you who care...
After considering the various merits of the 2m bronze and black, the CA Maestro and Virtuso and the Soundsmith Aida, I've decided to go with the 2M black, which has been ordered and paid for.
Shawn has tried it on his Concept, and the one aspect I was most concerned about -- added surface noise pickup due to the higher resolution, is not at all an issue.
Thanks all for your input and all the offline chatting, and special thanks to Shawn for comparing the two he had available on his Concept.
This seems like a good way to get back into vinyl -- Concept, 2M Black and Eros (with a collection of NOS euro ef86s and a couple of 7308 PQs to choose from.)
-- Jim
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I hope you truly enjoy your Ortofon 2M Black not just at first, but for a long time of listening to records. It is what I have been using with the Eros and I have never even considered another moving magnet cartridge since. Congratulations.
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Congrats, Jim. I'm very much looking forward to your thoughts on the new cartridge. Enjoy your music....
John
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And he has some new-to-him vinyl on its way. When he gets the table set up he will good for a few days with the new LPs.
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After moving from the 2M Red to a Nagaoka MP-110 I am wary of the 2M series and surface noise. If it's not an issue, then someday when I get enough money saved up, I too would like to upgrade to the Black.
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Congratulations on the 2M Black. After you work your way through the hours you will find it just gets better. I thought I had reached the best mine could give but then I adjusted the Stylus Rake Angle with the help of a USB Microscope and the azimuth with a Fozgometer it got even better. In my opinion the Black is probably one of the best MM cartridges out there. I am only running a Seduction at the moment but plan to upgrade to the Eros this year so it might even get better.
On a side note I have never encountered any issues with surface noise with the Black unless I had headphones on and was pushing the volume. But at those levels it was like standing behind a jet engine and so I never go that high. The one thing I have noted since building my BH set-up was the feeling of a dead quiet background. I love the performance so much I rarely use my CDP anymore.
Cheers;
Mike
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Jim R. - How is the 2M Black sounding?
I've got the Red and the Blue so I just ordered the 2M Bronze for a newly aquired Rega RP3. Ortofon recommended the Bronze for the RP3. Even though I've read mixed reviews on the Bronze, I feel it will be a good fit for me. I guess I'm a 2M kind of guy...
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Hi Joel,
Well, I'm not in a good place to tell you as I just set my TT up this past weekend. We recently moved (though we've been working on it for months), and I still don't have my eros started yet, and still no fully operational system in the listening room )though that too is getting closer by the day.) The guy who modified my TT said that it sounded very good though.
Sorry I can't really say anymore, but I'm sure the bronze is going to be yet another step up.
-- Jim
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Would you recommend the 2M black as an upgrade to the standard Concept MM that comes in the package of Clearaudio Concept deck (http://www.hifigear.co.uk/clearaudio-concept-turntable-package.html)? My Concept MM is showing signs or wear after about 600 hours use and I'm not sure whether to replace it with something different, though I do like it's sound quality.
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Even the Bronze will be an upgrade. The differrence between bronze and black is only the diamond -- nude shibata for the black and contact line for the bronze. they are otherwise identical and if a bronze wears out you can replace it with a black cantilever assembly, so in a sense they are interchangeable. The bronze is a great cart for the money, as is the black, just more money and what a shibata cartridge brings to the table. You can't go wrong with either.
-- Jim