Squeezebox Touch query

[denti alligator]

So I may end up having to go wireless to get my digital music (all FLAC) to my SEX amp. I'm not happy about this, but my new place just doesn't allow for me to put my HTPC near the amp. The Squeezebox Touch has gotten rave reviews and I noticed that a few of you here use one. My query is: does thing really sound good, and will going wireless (as opposed to wired ethernet) compromise the sound quality?

[earwaxxer]

Much has been said about this on other forums, and the debate continues. There SHOULD not be a difference in sound due to the data transfer method. From my experience with the Transporter, there IS a difference in sound quality between WiFi and ethernet (wired). The explanation appears to be that the radio in the box is adding some noise. This makes sense, since the radio is off if connected by ethernet.  I have NOT heard a difference in sound quality between various lengths or qualities (cat5e, cat6, cat7) of cables. I use a 25ft Belkin cat6. The other issue with the Touch is that you will be needing a better DAC if you have a high end system.

[debk]

How about hooking an external hard drive to the squeezebox


Deb

[denti alligator]

So the Squeezebox internal DAC will not sound as good as my Juli@ ? If that's the case I'm screwed, 'cus I don't have the money for an external DAC right now. Yes, I could plug the HD straight in to the SB, but then, again, what to do about the DAC. How weak is the internal DAC on the SB?

Edit: From a brief web search, it looks like the internal DAC on the SBT performs better than average, so I may not hear too much of a difference going from the internal DAC on my Juli@ to the SBT.

Also, can you turn the radio OFF on the Squeezebox (to avoid interference)?

[Dr. Toobz]

I had a Touch for a while, but ended up getting rid of it when I moved into a teeny place where I could string a USB or optical cable to a DAC and just control audio from my iMac (or iOS remote). The internal DAC is merely OK, not great. It was audibly less detailed and a bit more "hazy" sounding than the Marantz CD5004 player I also owned at the time. In a pinch, it's fine, similar to a cheap CD player, but I'd strongly recommend going into a dedicated DAC instead.

[denti alligator]

I'll be getting an external DAC eventually (Bottlehead!), so I don't want to invest now (don't have the funds anyway). I just want to be able to play my large digital library and have it sound at least close to as good as my Juli@. I've ordered the Squeezebox and will simply test it. If it affects the sound quality too much, I'll send it back.

[earwaxxer]

Sam - I think you will be happy with the Touch over your sound card. The squeezbox server interface is awesome. Complete control over just about everything you would want to be in control of. Plus you have all those internet music services. I have read many reviews of very high end systems that are in one way or another built around a squeezebox of some form or another. Dont sweat it! I would buy one in a heartbeat if my Transporter died. The learning curve is rather steep though as far as its capabilities. I'm looking to get a outboard DAC for my transporter at some point. Things progress.

As far as Debs question, with squeezebox you have to use a NAS drive. The drive uses a squeezebox 'lite' program. Its an option, I didnt want to buy a special drive for the Transporter, plus they have been more expensive. I also upsample my redbook to 24/96. Not sure if the drive would be fast enough to operate without hickups.

[Noskipallwd]

Sam, actually you can use an external HD with the touch but it installs tiny squeezebox server and it has problems with large libraries. I had a 256gb SS HD connected to mine and was a little slow for my taste, also you have to power the HD seperately, as the touch's USB bus lacks power for most drives. The Dac in the touch is not bad at all, I use mine as a transport into an external dac though. There are some software tweaks that improve the analog and digital performance, go to this site and read about them, http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/11/touch-toolbox-30.html. Also I found using ethernet for the touch and my server much better than wireless, depending on your network you can have problems like dropouts when there is high network activity. Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Shawn

[mrarroyo]

I enjoy the flexibility the Touch adds in two of my systems plus it allows me to play internet radio without needing to have the PC on. I use it for non critical listening so I have not bothered to really compare it with my wired connections but the sound quality is very good IMO.

[denti alligator]

Thanks for the input, guys. It turns out I was able to find a spot for the HTPC that is close enough to run a 12" RCA to the SEX amp, so the problem is moot. But the Squeezebox looks like a nice little device, and once the Bottlehead DAC is available I might jump on one.

[Dr. Toobz]

You know something, I don't even think I was aware of some of the Touch's features when I had one (which was admittedly brief). As I look at the specs again, it apparently does 96/24 and has apps for things like Spotify and Pandora....not a bad deal. Maybe I'll have to give one another chance when I spot it on sale.

I almost pulled the plug on a Transporter once (the Slim Devices era unit w/navigational knob in front), but the price was (and still is) obscenely high, and I've heard varying opinions about whether the internal DAC is really worth the extra quid when the same amount of money nets one a Touch and a respectable middle-range offboard DAC (such as a DacIt, Benchmark I, Dacmagic, etc).

[Pluck]

I was pondering a Touch ( amongst others ) for ages and finally, a little begrudgingly, pulled the trigger six months ago.  I've actually been very happy with it.  Sound quality from the onboard dac has been more than good enough for non-critical listening - ie. through speakers - although I bypass it via a Dacmagic for proper listening through headphone amps. I'm led to believe that the digital signal leaves the Touch unmolested too - certainly I get fantastic results through my rig.  Considering the price and convenience of the system ( even my missus can use it ), I think it's a brilliant little box.  I connect via ethernet so can't comment on quality over WiFi.

[Jim R.]

I recently got an SB Touch which iI had a full set of analog and digital mods done to, and will be building a very nice, superregulated 5v power supply for it, and I expect that it will be a superb source for our living room system (connected via ethernet to a NAS in the basement.)

Several years ago I had a fully decked out SB3 with high end power supply, dc umbilical, etc. and it was at that time the best digital I ever had.  The modified SB Touch with a good linear ps and the software tweaks Shawn mentioned above should easily out do the sb3.

I don't think it will beat the mach2 mini -> ap-2 -> metrum dac combo, but I'm keeping an open mind.

There is also a very inexpensive analog mod for the Touch that Bolder cable can do, which basically removes the cruddy electrolytic coupling caps on the dac output and replaces them with a piece of wire, and along with the soundcheck software tweaks, can take the basic touch up several notches.

For another, totally different approach to a wireless dac setup that is not compromised by being wireless, take a look at the Audioengine D2 dac -- if you use the analog outs on the receiver box (instead of optical spdif) there is a volume control on the transmitter box that does not interfere with the digital music.  BTW, this does not use the standard wifi 802.x wireless protocol, but a proprietary one just for audio and suffers none of the same issues as the regular wifi audio transmission.  Oh, and you can connect up to 3 receivers to oe transmitter.  So basically, you'd plug the D2 transmitter into your laptop or htpc, connect the receiver to the amp and use some sort of remote app to control the music playback from the htpc or just the keyboard if using a laptop.  Transmitter can accept up to 24/192, but it transmits to the receiver at 24/96.  This was going to be my alternative to the SB touch but I decided to go with the modified touch instead.

BTW, the audioengine d2 reciever has an optical output, so you can also use it as a wireless usb-spdif converter, which you can plug into any dac with an optical input (bh dac, for example.)

HTH,

Jim

[gstew]

Denti,

There's a lot of great information on the web on optimizing the Squeezebox. Some of the best has been written by John Swenson, who is doing the digital section design of the up-coming Bottlehead DAC. I've found a lot of his posts in the Audio Asylum… just search for posts with either Squeezebox or SB authored by him. He has also posted a lot in the Squeezebox forums, but I've not spent as much time there.

There's also a series of software configurations & mods written by a guy out of Europe named Klaus, but online he uses the moniker Soundchekk. He has also posted at length on the Asylum, but the two places where I've seen the the most useful info from him are on his blog and on a Squeezebox thread on DIYAudio:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pc-based/168871-squeezebox-touch-modifications.html

http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/

I just got a Squeezebox Touch to investigate as an alternative to my highly-tweaked computer music server. Here are some posts I bookmarked on the Asylum that look to have very useful info on setting up a Squeezebox Touch:

http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=pcaudio&m=87759

http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=pcaudio&m=74350

http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=pcaudio&m=77160

http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=pcaudio&m=80559

http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=pcaudio&m=80871

http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=pcaudio&m=82109

http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=pcaudio&m=94639

http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=pcaudio&m=106439

http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=pcaudio&m=81243

http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=pcaudio&m=57478

These are in no particular order and are not anywhere near exhaustive, but if you go over these and the links above, and also take in John Swenson's comments in the Digital forum here about the Bottlehead DAC design, you'll have a great start on how to get your SBTouch working well.

Here's what I think I've gleaned from my 1st few scans of all of this:

1. Use Soundchekk's recommendations for setup and install his TouchToolbox on your SBTouch as a starting point.

2. Have your music stored on a separate computer that is connected via the network to your SBT. That computer does not have to be very fancy.

3. IF AT ALL POSSIBLE, connect the SBT via a wired network connection.

4. Buy or build a linear supply for the SBT. John Swenson's design is a good starting point for this and is linked to in one of the threads above.

5. According to John (also in one of the links above), doing these things and a bit more will give you very good sound out of the SBT's analog outputs.

Then there is a large cottage industry supplying power supplies and mods to the SBT. I haven't looked over most of them, but one I saw and liked is from a company out of the UK called Fidelity Audio… more info can be found here: http://www.fidelityaudio.co.uk/squeezebox_touch.html . I already have one of his clocks in hand (for modifying a Juli@ soundcard) and think based on what I've read that these mods should deliver.

Also, see my answer to your question about the Juli@ soundcard. My opinion, based on what little I know about computer audio and what I've read, is that an un-or-lightly-optimized computer audio setup will be beaten sonically by an un-or-lightly-optimized SBT. I don’t know where you get with fully optimized and tweaked out versions of either… ask me again in 6 months and I might have an opinion. General opinion favors the SBT, but few of those voices have actually heard a fully configured, tweaked and optimized cMP/cPlay setup (I doubt that more than 25 people worldwide have heard one of these).

As I said in my Juli@ response, contact me offline via email if you have more detailed questions. I'm not a Squeezebox expert… but I can likely point you to a helpful resource.

Greg in Mississippi