Bottlehead Forum
General Category => Technical topics => Topic started by: Grainger49 on August 24, 2011, 02:05:32 AM
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We often get posts about noise, a dead channel or hum that ultimately ends up being caused by a tube socket that is dirty, loose or just not making contact for one reason or another. I'm a fan of the "Insert/remove" method of cleaning and have used it well for years.
I have also known for years that tube sockets could be bought with gold plated pins but only recently saw that they were also available with silver plated pins. Gold is a soft metal and because it is soft it wears easily. Look at gold plated RCA jacks that have been used for several years. Gold also tarnishes. The tarnish causes poor connections so gold needs to be cleaned periodically.
Silver is different from gold in that silver tarnish is easier to see than gold tarnish but silver tarnish is very conductive. So even tarnished silver conducts better than base metals. But tube sockets that are plated with gold and silver are only plated. Plate wears off.
The question in all of this is do any of you guys, and women or two, have opinions for what the best tube socket metal is? The standard socket, even when new, can have some corrosion on it. Gold is soft and tarnishes, silver is a harder metal (than gold), the tarnish is conductive but plating still wears off.
I keep my equipment a very long time, change tubes often enough that they cause wear on the tube sockets.
What do you think?
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After several years of dealing with cheap ceramic sockets which invariably develop poor or noisy connections I decided to try something different.
http://www.partsconnexion.com/socket_belton_9.html (http://www.partsconnexion.com/socket_belton_9.html)
I tried these for my latest project and they are by far the tightest and most secure tube sockets I've ever used. I think a tight, reliable fit trumps the plating material.
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Rob,
And this gives a fourth option. The pins are "solder-plated." Yet solder sounds like a soft metal. I'm guessing that it is soft before converting to liquid and back to solid.
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i have used the belton sockets in a few projects-i would give them a excellent rating--at the moment i am building a second stereomour and am using the iag socket tag board combo's-they are ceramic with i think gold plating--i have some from a hongkong company that i can't seem to find the name of at the moment-the pin connectors appear to be well made -goldplated with springloaded clamps for each pin-they hold much better than the iag's but for my wood chassis i needed the iags for mounting--ah this is where i got them
http://www.vt4c.com/shop/program/main.php?cat_id=10&group_id=6&hit_cat=
the site takes a while to populate--all kinds of goodies-i have bought a good many things from them-i definitely endorse them
howie
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Howard,
Thanks for the link. I will bookmark the seller.
The four pin, top right, are what my 5 pin are now. They get loose for some reason. Maybe the metal anneals? I just received a pair (5 pin) like the top left today from Angela Instruments. I'm hoping they are better.
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What is the consensus on sockets? Is teflon, ceramic, bakelite or???? the best? Sounds like silver plated contacts have an edge? Just wondering.
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Teflon are all the rage now, but who knows. Right now I'm concerned about good pin to socket contact. That is what started the thread.
I do think that the socket material forms some kind of dielectric. What affect it has on the sound has to be slight, but probably meaningful to some with better hearing than mine. I do have a pair of Teflon sockets for my 2A3s but they are not installed.
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in my latest project i have iag tag bds with the ceramic sockets-those sockets are no different than the teflon ones as far as the actual tube pin connection-i decided to get rough with them they bend out of shape easily and all that really helps them keep their shape is the carbon steel retainer clip-not impressed- in the site i linked in my other post-the TS-CM04G and TS-CM04BG -i decided to use the 04G-look at the way they are constructed- a much better contact -they have 9 pin also which i used but for the 9 pin this plate is a big help
http://www.partsconnexion.com/CONNEX-74342.html
parts connexion also has this http://www.partsconnexion.com/CONNEX-74339.html
just like the TS-CM04G/BG--in 4 pin and 7 ,8 and 9 pin
http://www.partsconnexion.com/socket_connex_strd.html--
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Howard,
I'm not completely sure I follow your post but... The second link is to the same sockets I have waiting for installation for my 2A3s.
The third link doesn't work for me.
Thanks,
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Teflon are all the rage now, but who knows. Right now I'm concerned about good pin to socket contact. That is what started the thread.
The 'tulip' pins that come installed in most good Teflon sockets are awesome. Easy to insert, while still being very tight (hmm, sounds WAY dirtier than I intended). So from a physical standpoint, I find them MUCH better than the pins I have used in any ceramic socket.
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Beefy,
Have you seen my description of how to clean your tube pins, socket? It gets worse.
I'm getting rid of ceramic sockets. I bought some 5 pin sockets from Angela two weeks ago. I haven't decided on 9 pin sockets quite yet. I need many more of them.
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grainger -sorry about the vague post- i replaced the iag board sockets with what beefy calls the tulip style-now that we have tulip style, we still have the question -silver or gold?
this is the link to the parts connexion--connex tube sockets standard teflon in gold and silver
they are not cheap -the economy connex is less expensive
http://www.partsconnexion.com/socket_connex_prem.html
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Howard,
Hoochie Mamma! $20 for a 9 pin socket, I will truly look elsewhere.
But thanks.
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Check out eBay Grainger. You can get them directly from China / Hong Kong at a decent savings. The only problem is the shipping takes a good 3-4 weeks. They usually run ~$10 each for an 8 or 9 pin socket (Teflon), or a little less for machined ceramic.
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Hoochie Mamma! $20 for a 9 pin socket, I will truly look elsewhere.
I've seen folks spend more than that on hook up wire. For a critical electromechanical connection, that is also something tactile that you actually see and feel, it is definitely worth budgeting for.
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Beefy,
Look at the line below my dog's picture. It explains my slant.
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I have used the Connex as well as the generic ebay gold plated teflons for half the price and if they aren't identical, I sure can't tell them apart.
Have also used these http://www.partsconnexion.com/socket_tefcom.html and found them to work very well also. A bit snugger than the average bakelite. And at $6 not too much of a hit on the wallet.
On a side note my favorite sockets are a set I had made for me by a company in China. I'll see if they have some info in english now a days. They are milled black acrylic with pre-tinned solid copper pins. At $70 bucks a pop for the prototypes they are a bit much.
But if you can find something in a solid copper for a reasonable price I would go with that. My next fav would be gold, then silver. Might just be the sockets I got, but the silver plating seemed to come off faster. And I couldn't tell the difference between the sound of them.
The solid copper sounded better to me than either of the plated.
The gold/silver plated sound better to me than the standard $0.50 plug.
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These for the Eros by any chance?
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ssssly,
Yes, and for my other pieces that use 9 pin tubes. I wanted a tube socket that doesn't corrode. I guess I can't keep the tube pins from corroding.
I have gold tube sockets in my old ST-70. I bought the sockets 20 years ago and they haven't given any problems. They were probably old stock in 1990. In industry silver is often used because of the conductivity of the oxidation. It is almost as good as the silver itself.
I have never seen copper tube sockets. Sounds interesting.
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Sadly, there is no known-to-be-reliable current manufacture socket that I am aware of. Too much stuff is simply not repeatable - just because one person had a good experience is no guarantee that you will have the same if you order now. Between this lack of quality control, and the lack of long-term experience with new designs, I know no way to be confident that a particular socket will still function well 10 or 20 years later.
Western Electric tried to address this problem 80 or 90 years ago. I see no references these days to whatever they developed; it may just be lost. If anybody knows better, I am most extremely interested to hear about it.
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There was a Japanese company that was making molded composite, solid copper sockets a few years back but they were super expensive as well. More than the protos I had made, and the Yen rate hasn't gotten any better since then.
I found some tiny metal pipecleanerish brushes at a yard sale a few years back. I dip them in some contact cleaner and brush the sockets out every few months. Seems to have kept the crackles at bay. And living in Okinawa, life is a constant battle against corrosion.
I used the stockers in my Eros and if they are a weak link, the rest of the chain certainly makes up for them. The sockets are not easy to swap once constructed though. So if you have the bug, I would build it with the new ones.
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Paul,
Thanks for the information. Just to be clear to everyone, I was not complaining about the sockets Bottlehead supplies. They are top notch current production sockets. The same quality as any major manufacturer (ARC, Jolida, Manley, BAT, etc.) out there puts in their equipment. (Ok, I was delusional.) Using specific examples, the more current manufactured preamps I owned were an (made ~1996) and a Counterpoint (made ~1998). Both used sockets similar to Doc's but those the mount in a PCB. The sockets I got in a grab bag from Manley Labs at VSAC 2003 looked much cheaper than Doc's.
Any mechanical connection is unreliable. This is one we tube aficionados have to put up with.
ssssly,
I'm looking for a reasonable alternative. I have some silver plated PCB mount sockets I have used for 20 years in Dynaco rebuilds. They have been extremely reliable. I have zero confidence that the "sliver plated" sockets coming from China are even tin plated, much less silver.
That is why I was looking for a reasonable alternative. That, to me, means under $10 per unit. Thinking about it, copper oxidizes and the oxide is pretty bad. If the copper is in contact with a tube pin the contact won't be compromised. But if it moves you have an ohmic contact. Considering the high price I will no doubt pass.
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I tried to say out of this discussion but Graingers last comment about the top notch current production sockets that Bottlehead uses in their kits is the same quality as other major manufacturers is just delusional. I stopped using the kit sockets and rca's along time ago, Bottlehead sockets are price dependent not quality dependent which keeps the cost of their kits down, and these and most inexpensive sockets usually cause problems down the road. Because this is DIY and tube rolling is a absolute addiction for me I have made the decision to eliminate possible problems by using a better IMHO product. Rebuilding a project because of a bad socket or rca is a real pain, especially with the upgrade boards that cover up any access to the socket, and it usually destroys the original neatness of the original build.
I never use gold plated anything (one exception); after reading an NASA article about not using anything that is gold plated because of the poor quality solder connection created and of its greatly reduce reliabilty I stopped using most parts that are gold plated. Yes, I do realize that none of my builds will make it into space, just being the annal retentive person I was born, can't help it.
Here is my short list of better sockets:
Yamamoto Teflon (Cu, Silver, Gold), extremely expensive but the best pins I have seen.
CMC, Connex or Valab Teflon and Bakelite, all gold plated, Yamamoto clone. (my one exception to not using gold plating) I usually try to use the small round PCB especially with the 9 pins sockets which makes for an extremely neat installation.
Angela Instruments silver premium ceramic sockets, best ceramic socket I have seen, top and bottom chassis mount and PCB, use these alot.
QQQ Bakelite sockets made in Japan, best bang for the buck, chassis mount only, also used alot.
Belton, terrible beige color, chassis and PCB, also has a PCB version with extra long pins.
Blue Tefcom Teflon composite silver version, like the Belton do not like the color. Same price range as the Angela premium but IMHO the Angela and QQQ are better sockets.
Again like Grainger I am not "complaining" about the Bottlehead tube sockets and rca connectors. I have stated in the past that I believe that Bottlehead should have an limited "upgrade Kit" option with better sockets, rca's, etc. I would rather give Dan and Eileen my money, but do understand that this upgrade kit would result in a larger more complicated inventory for them, spent 30 years dealing with an ever expanding complicated inventory. I also would expect to have to pay more for these items through Bottlehead but in the long run it would save one money because of the lack of purchasing duplicate items and having sockets, rca, etc. sitting in a box on the shelf.
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Lee, thanks for the great list of quality sockets. I'll get hold of some to play with for sure!
When the Yamamotos (and their imitators) first appeared, I recall seeing some complaints about teflon "flow", with sockets coming loose as the mounting screws relaxed, and the pins coming loose. These were of course forum reports, not my own direct experience, so I don't really know how true they were. Have you had enough experience to comment?
A quick look says a few of the sockets on your list claim phosphor bronze pins, which - at least at one time - was the preferred metal - flexible and strong. I can't find any claims at all for the others, and I've certainly run across more than a few cheap copies of traditional designs that seem to be made of pot metal or maybe melted down beer cans. :^)
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Lee,
None of those above, except the Belton and Angela, are "reasonable" by my definition above. But, for such prices, they should be good.
PJ, do you have any experience/recommendations? If you prefer to PM I will keep it under my hat.
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In case you missed it I mentioned in an earlier post the Belton sockets sold by Partsconnexion. They are the tightest sockets I've ever used. I really don't see them getting loose anytime soon either. And they're under $3 each to boot!
Here's what they say about them:
pcX is pleased to once again be stocking a variety of Belton Engineering tube sockets (made in Korea). Regarded by many to be the best molded plastic (Micalex - glass fiber filled PPS insulation material) sockets ever made, these parts have become very popular amongst Guitar amp manufacturers, as well as an increasing number of high-end audio tube electronics manufacturers, due to their super reliability.
NOTE: Sonic Frontiers was one of the first high-end audio companies to use these sockets, back in the mid-1990's.
Featuring solder-plated phosphor bronze contacts, the manufacturing quality of these sockets is superb, with extremely strong contact elasticity.
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Eddie Current is making a 4 pin, teflon, silver contact socket that, while very $$$, is also a new design.
It has adjustable pressure so you can get a good fit with pins that are even slightly "out of round" which isn't unheard of.
IMHO, if you're planning to spend the big bucks on a socket, buy some that have a design advantage.
http://www.eddiecurrent.com/Tube_Socket.html
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Rob,
Yes, Thanks! I have bookmarked the Beltons as a reasonable possibility.
Steve,
No, I hadn't seen them but I'm looking for reasonable. The design looks good. It seems to be a "tulip" style which makes sense to me. I'm not sure what he means by "adjustable." Maybe the nut on the bottom of the socket adjusts height or tension?
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Grainger, I don't have any recommendations. I have some stash of old sockets, and when those run out I just grab whatever Dan is putting in the kits, when he's not looking. :^)
In principle, I would probably go with phosphor bronze as the metal when I can find it. The Wikipedia entry says it has low friction and freedom from metal fatigue, which should make repeated tube rolling more reliable. The phosphorous is said to remove oxides (the primary form of corrosion) and clean up grain boundaries. These are things that cable students think are important. Beryllium copper is stronger and a better conductor, but the toxicity of beryllium seems a downside to me. Both alloys are widely used for springs and electrical contacts.
My negative socket experiences have always been contacts that get deformed and lose the ability to make a good connection. This would be expected if the chosen metal is not free from fatigue or is weak.