Replacement Film Capacitor help

Kitchener · 3923

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Kitchener

  • Full Member
  • ***
    • Posts: 105
    • I made something!
on: March 07, 2018, 11:48:06 PM
EDIT:
I'll update this post with usefull answers from posters and from other sources I might stumble upon as I go.


Hi!
First of all, I've trawled through the forum (plus Head-Fi and others) looking for specific advice and recommendations for replacement output capacitor's for the Crack.
And I've learned quite a bit, but still have some questions that I would like to ask.

I'll divide this into two sections, one for general technical advice and one for specific recommendations of output capacitors and their perceived and or documented benefit.
-please also drop some tips on power supply caps as well if you want!


Also, here's a disclaimer:
Before I only knew two things about electrical circuitry; jack and shit.
These days I've read quite a bit and have supplemented with two more; sod and all.
Expect many question marks.
Don't ever assume I know what I'm talking about, I'm just a neophyte hobbyist who's desperate for an excuse to heat up the soldering iron.
-I have a Speedball order in processing, so I'm asking about caps because I might need a new fix down the line.


Technical:

  • These are slightly embarrasing, but I have to ask.
    The film cap is supposed to replace the electrolylic caps on terminal 6U, 7U, 9U and 10U?
    -in other words, remove the lytics and solder on the film caps instead?
    Also, bypassing means to connect a smaller capacitor alongside the film capacitor?
    Yes, replace them!

    Bypassing means fitting a second capacitor, usually at 1% the Farad-rating of the main cap (so 1uF on a 100uF cap, get it?), alongside the main cap. Either soldered on the legs of the main cap or in the same terminals, whatever fits best.

  • Also a little embarrasing; what does a capacitor do in an amplifier, in laymans terms?
    -filter out noise?
    Magic, it does magic, okay?
  • Subjectively, what would you say are the biggest benefits to swapping the caps?
    Reply from Doc:
    "Electrolytic caps can break down over time from heat..."
    "Modern films caps do pretty much last forever if they are not abused by running them over their voltage rating."

    The most common arguments I've read list a slightly better seperation and a more spacious sound.
    As I understand though, these are mostly minute benefits?
    Do film caps have a longer lifespan than lytics?
  • What about electrolytic caps?
    Generally people seem to prefer film caps.
    -because of faster response times and better ripple current rejection or something (magic).
    But I've read a couple posts from people who prefer electrolytics instead.
    Some stated that to get the same performance from a lytic you needed 10x the Farad rating.
    So to replace a 100uF film cap you'd need a 1000uF lytic cap?
    -does this mean you could use a 10uF film cap replacement?
    Personally I'm drawn heavily towards film caps solely because of their brutal size.
    There's something absurd and sexy about using components the size of soda cans just to make earphones sound better, and I like it.

  • The stock output caps are rated 100 uF and 160 Volts.
    As I understand It's recommended to find film caps with similar specs, the most widely used specs seem to be 100uF 250V.
    Spare yourself the headache, just use a film cap with as similar specs to the electrolytic caps as possible
  • Is there any benefit from using a cap with a higher Farad rating?
    As I understand this could theoretically give a slight boost to the lower frequencies?
  • I've not been able to find any film capacitors at 100uF with a lower Voltage rating than 250.
    As I understand there's no benefit from using a capacitor with a Voltage rating above the stock 160.
    Some have posted that using capacitors with a very high Voltage rating, 400+, can have detrimental effects, if only from the thicker hookup, correct?
Just a couple on power supply capacitors as well:

  • As I understand the stock caps here are very good.
    I half remember readind a post somewhere where someone used an oscilloscope to measure ...oscillations and said they were ...good and lo and behold so they were.
    Read my disclaimer!
    EDIT: Found the post: https://bottlehead.com/smf/index.php?topic=1762.msg13272#msg13272
    I've also read that the biggest benefit would come from swapping out the 2nd and 3rd cap, but which terminals are those connected to?
    20U and 21U? 1
    14U and 15U? 2
    12U and 13U? 3
    The attached image shows the order of the power caps!
  • Again it is best to find caps with matching ratings, 220uF and 250V?.
  • Does one use film caps here as well? That sounds like it would be impossible to fit alongside the Speedball and output film caps and perhaps a choke.
    Yes, it is pretty much impossible to fit replacement film caps on the PSU and outputs.
    This reddit/Head-Fi user has replaced the last lytic cap with a film cap.
    With a choke in place of one of the PSU-resistors (the big rectangular white ones between 15-21U and 13-15L) he was able to put a 100uF film cap in place of the last resistor.

    While replacement film caps are tough to fit, bypass caps are much easier.
    Find some 2.2uF 250V film caps like perhaps these and solder them in along with the electrolytic power caps instead.

Specific recomendations:


I was hoping we could get some specific model names and maybe links to good replacement caps here.
Generally I aspire to be a cheapskate, but sometimes I just say "screw it" and splurge on something I generally regret splurging on.
I don't necesarily see the point in shoveling several houndred dollars into new caps, then I might as well have gotten a SEX or Crackatwoa instead.
And as I understand it, once you cross a certain price point you enter diminishing returns territory, so if we could keep the recommendations below that line I'd appreciate it.
-Where exactly is that line?


Please namedrop any electrolytic replacements you can think of as well.


So far it seems these are the most popular caps:

Addition:

More?
Model names and links would be great!
-preferably affordable.
Thanks for reading  :D
« Last Edit: March 19, 2018, 01:47:13 AM by Kitchener »

Modded, Speedballed Crack + Sennheiser HD6XX
STAX SRM-353X + SR-L500
STAX SRM-313 + SR-L300
-Jørgen E. J.


Offline BZ58

  • Full Member
  • ***
    • Posts: 55
Reply #1 on: March 09, 2018, 06:37:41 PM
Quote “The film cap is supposed to replace the electrolylic caps on terminal 6U, 7U, 9U and 10U?
-in other words, remove the lytics and solder on the film caps instead?”

Answer - yes.

At least I can answer that question.

I’m also interested in knowing the answers to your questions.



Offline Kitchener

  • Full Member
  • ***
    • Posts: 105
    • I made something!
Reply #2 on: March 10, 2018, 10:09:07 AM
Quote “The film cap is supposed to replace the electrolylic caps on terminal 6U, 7U, 9U and 10U?
-in other words, remove the lytics and solder on the film caps instead?”

Answer - yes.

Aaah, great, thanks. Nice to clear up the very basic basics early  :)

I got a lot of great answers from Ohshitgorillas over at Head-Fi.
He has a really good Reddit post detailing his modding here: https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/62hc1u/welcome_to_the_crackhouse_bottlehead_crack_otl/?sort=old&sh=13b61490&st=JEISLAR8

Modded, Speedballed Crack + Sennheiser HD6XX
STAX SRM-353X + SR-L500
STAX SRM-313 + SR-L300
-Jørgen E. J.


Offline BZ58

  • Full Member
  • ***
    • Posts: 55
Reply #3 on: March 11, 2018, 12:36:16 AM
Yes I found and used information from that post also. That was really nice of him to share his directions. I also googled images of the Crack.



Offline brightcity

  • Jr. Member
  • **
    • Posts: 48
Reply #4 on: March 12, 2018, 12:32:22 PM
I really like Solen PB and PPE series. The build quality on the Mundorf M-Cap is amazing. The build quality on the Dayton caps is not the same as the Solens, thinner leadouts.

Im sure all will work really well. While you are at it, small film caps (0.01uF) in parallel with the power supply caps help wonders.

Film caps do last longer than electrolytics as the electrolyte can dry out over time. Film caps do not last forever though, they can form perforations in the plastic dielectric which can reduce their capacitance. Overloads or static discharge can cause this. Metalized film capacitors are referred to as self-healing since the metal can reflow over dielectric micro-holes. Film and foil capacitors cannot do this.

Simply discharging (unplugging) for some time and replugging can start the self-healing process.

Just make sure that whatever voltage rating you replace with matches what is listed in the Bottlehead manual.

These Russian Paper in Oil caps are supposed to sound really good. They can also be bypassed with small value film capacitors. The unfixed rule is no more than 1/100 of the original cap for the bypass. : https://www.ebay.com/itm/K75-40B-100-f-750V-VINTAGE-RUSSIAN-PAPER-PIO-CAPACITORS/282877864280?hash=item41dcd5a958:g:wToAAOSw10haouV7
« Last Edit: March 12, 2018, 12:49:57 PM by brightcity »



Offline Doc B.

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 9557
    • Bottlehead
Reply #5 on: March 12, 2018, 01:16:10 PM
I really like Solen PB and PPE series. The build quality on the Mundorf M-Cap is amazing. The build quality on the Dayton caps is not the same as the Solens, thinner leadouts.

Im sure all will work really well. While you are at it, small film caps (0.01uF) in parallel with the power supply caps help wonders.

Film caps do last longer than electrolytics as the electrolyte can dry out over time. Film caps do not last forever though, they can form perforations in the plastic dielectric which can reduce their capacitance. Overloads or static discharge can cause this. Metalized film capacitors are referred to as self-healing since the metal can reflow over dielectric micro-holes. Film and foil capacitors cannot do this.

Simply discharging (unplugging) for some time and replugging can start the self-healing process.

Just make sure that whatever voltage rating you replace with matches what is listed in the Bottlehead manual.

These Russian Paper in Oil caps are supposed to sound really good. They can also be bypassed with small value film capacitors. The unfixed rule is no more than 1/100 of the original cap for the bypass. : https://www.ebay.com/itm/K75-40B-100-f-750V-VINTAGE-RUSSIAN-PAPER-PIO-CAPACITORS/282877864280?hash=item41dcd5a958:g:wToAAOSw10haouV7

These are generalities, and do not seemed to be based upon first hand experience.  Thinner leads on a cap don't necessarily reflect build quality. Electrolytic caps can break down over time from heat without drying out. We typically use caps with a 3-4000 hour or higher rating. Modern films caps do pretty much last forever if they are not abused by running them over their voltage rating. Bypassing caps may or may not improve the sound, depending upon the quality of the cap they are bypassing and the location of the cap in the circuit.

Dan "Doc B." Schmalle
President For Life
Bottlehead Corp.


Offline brightcity

  • Jr. Member
  • **
    • Posts: 48
Reply #6 on: March 12, 2018, 04:12:11 PM
Great, all of this is in my opinion and experience. Please don't reflect my prior posts on what can be judged as what I consider better.



Offline attmci

  • Full Member
  • ***
    • Posts: 113
Reply #7 on: March 13, 2018, 07:56:17 AM
Enjoy your crack for at least 6 months before any mods. Otherwise you won't notice any changes. Just my 2c.



Offline Kitchener

  • Full Member
  • ***
    • Posts: 105
    • I made something!
Reply #8 on: March 13, 2018, 09:00:08 AM
I thinks that’s good advice.

Problem is, I don’t really care about the sound at this stage.
The stock Crack is probably good enough for me for perpetuity.
I think it sounds wonderful.
And even though I’ll probably hear a difference with the Speedball in place, I don’t think I have the ear required to identify what exactly has changed.

No, what I find so addictive is building the damned thing.
Planning.
Sourcing components.
Fitting and soldering.
I’m aching to tinker with it.
Don’t really care either way if the mods change the sound, as long as it’s not somehow worse.

So waiting 6 months is sound advice, unless you’re just in it for the solderfumes!

Modded, Speedballed Crack + Sennheiser HD6XX
STAX SRM-353X + SR-L500
STAX SRM-313 + SR-L300
-Jørgen E. J.


Offline Doc B.

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 9557
    • Bottlehead
Reply #9 on: March 13, 2018, 09:32:04 AM
Quote
Don’t really care either way if the mods change the sound, as long as it’s not somehow worse.

Go for it! And be sure to posts pics.

Dan "Doc B." Schmalle
President For Life
Bottlehead Corp.


Offline Kitchener

  • Full Member
  • ***
    • Posts: 105
    • I made something!
Reply #10 on: March 14, 2018, 12:21:53 AM
My big Crack hot rodding adventure!

Hah, reminds me of one of the best music videos ever commited to celluloid: https://youtu.be/y73hyMP1a-E?t=5

Modded, Speedballed Crack + Sennheiser HD6XX
STAX SRM-353X + SR-L500
STAX SRM-313 + SR-L300
-Jørgen E. J.


Offline Doc B.

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 9557
    • Bottlehead
Reply #11 on: March 14, 2018, 05:17:15 AM
I think I still have the poster from that album in my lab at home.

Dan "Doc B." Schmalle
President For Life
Bottlehead Corp.


Offline Kitchener

  • Full Member
  • ***
    • Posts: 105
    • I made something!
Reply #12 on: March 14, 2018, 09:56:05 AM
The one with the lady?
It is a very good poster.

Modded, Speedballed Crack + Sennheiser HD6XX
STAX SRM-353X + SR-L500
STAX SRM-313 + SR-L300
-Jørgen E. J.


Offline TravAndAlex

  • Jr. Member
  • **
    • Posts: 16
Reply #13 on: March 16, 2018, 02:14:42 PM
The Panasonic 100uF 500V film capacitor https://www.digikey.ca/products/en?keywords=EZP-E50107MTA has got to be the biggest bang for the buck.  Works great for me and two fit perfectly between the headphone jack and the power supply terminal strips - giving much more flexibility in mounting. 



Offline Kitchener

  • Full Member
  • ***
    • Posts: 105
    • I made something!
Reply #14 on: March 19, 2018, 01:41:10 AM
Great, adding it to the list.
Space-savers are much appreciated.

Wonder if it's easier or harder to mount square capacitors?

Modded, Speedballed Crack + Sennheiser HD6XX
STAX SRM-353X + SR-L500
STAX SRM-313 + SR-L300
-Jørgen E. J.