Bottlehead Forum

Bottlehead Kits => S.E.X. Kit => Topic started by: mwgrient on June 17, 2020, 02:43:52 AM

Title: 50Hz hum from S.E.X. amp, only headphones and left channel.
Post by: mwgrient on June 17, 2020, 02:43:52 AM
Hi,
I have a 6 years old S.E.X. amp (v2.1) with C4S installed and with a 50Hz hum on the left channel. Does not increase if volume is up.
It is not notable on speakers, perhaps not sensitive enough? So only on my headphones... (Fostex TR-x00 EB) and not loud.

My question is where to look? I have tried to clean everything with alcohol.
cheers, Marco.
Title: Re: 50Hz hum from S.E.X. amp, only headphones and left channel.
Post by: oguinn on June 17, 2020, 03:23:55 AM
Maybe start with the headphone jack? Or post some photos.
Title: Re: 50Hz hum from S.E.X. amp, only headphones and left channel.
Post by: mwgrient on June 17, 2020, 04:58:50 AM
here are some pictures of the headphone jack.
Title: Re: 50Hz hum from S.E.X. amp, only headphones and left channel.
Post by: Paul Birkeland on June 17, 2020, 05:16:15 AM
I would start by checking the DC voltages and swapping the tubes to see if the noise follows a tube.
Title: Re: 50Hz hum from S.E.X. amp, only headphones and left channel.
Post by: mwgrient on June 17, 2020, 06:06:34 AM
I have some measurements

Terminal - Voltage
1 - 201
2 - 0
3 - 0
4 - 405
5 - 202
6,16 -  385 / 385
7,17 - 0 / 0
8,18 - 0 / 0
9,19 - 0 / 0
10,20 - 405 / 405
11,21 - 346 / 347
12,22 - 0 / 0
13,23 - 0 / 0
14/24 - 0 / 0
15,25 - 17 / 17
A1,B1 - 0 / 0
A2,B2 - 362 / 365
A3,B3 - 17 / 17
A4,B4 - 0 / 0
A5,B5 - 70 / 70
A6,B6 - 2 / 2
A7,B7 - 2 / 2
A8,B8 - 3 / 3
C1 - 2.4
C2 - 3.6
C3 - 0
C4 - 2.4
C5 - 3.8

C4S
Terminal
OA/OB - 66 / 66
10, 20 - 405 / 405
Title: Re: 50Hz hum from S.E.X. amp, only headphones and left channel.
Post by: Paul Birkeland on June 17, 2020, 06:08:08 AM
Those look good, now I would try swapping tubes.
Title: Re: 50Hz hum from S.E.X. amp, only headphones and left channel.
Post by: mwgrient on June 17, 2020, 06:17:36 AM
Thanks.
I noticed a weak connection because I was pulling the black wire from jack to terminal 23. Then it came of the jack. I have resolved that cable. The strong 50Hz signal is gone, but have now stereo light hum. Only on the headphones.
I swapped the tubes anyway. But no effect.
Title: Re: 50Hz hum from S.E.X. amp, only headphones and left channel.
Post by: Deke609 on June 17, 2020, 06:44:44 AM
Have you used the Fostex TR-X00 with the S.E.X. before without hum? If not, and this is your first time pairing those phones with the amp, I wonder whether the hum is a function of the phones' low impedance: 25 ohms. That's pretty low. IIRC, I heard increasing levels of hum through my LCD-4 headphones (200 ohms) with a Stereomour when increasing the nominal output impedance of the output transformers (i.e., 4 - 8 - 16). I cured that with DC filament heating - but I don't know if that is an option for the S.E.X.

If not, and if the hum is function of your phone's low impedance, you might consider adding impedance switches so that you can switch from speakers (e.g., 8 ohms) to headphones (e.g., 4 ohms).

Just a thought.

cheers, Derek
Title: Re: 50Hz hum from S.E.X. amp, only headphones and left channel.
Post by: mwgrient on June 17, 2020, 06:53:12 AM
No, always hum/noise... the amp was a disaster when I bought/recieved it because of bad shipping. I bought it build.

the amp is wired for 4 ohms.

DC filament heating? Whats that?  ;D
Title: Re: 50Hz hum from S.E.X. amp, only headphones and left channel.
Post by: Paul Birkeland on June 17, 2020, 06:59:18 AM
Headphone sensitivity determines how important the noise floor of the amp is, not the impedance of the headphones themselves. 

All the SEX amps other than the original monoblocks of 30 years ago are DC heated. 

Can you post an overhead shot of the build? 
Title: Re: 50Hz hum from S.E.X. amp, only headphones and left channel.
Post by: mwgrient on June 17, 2020, 07:06:31 AM
the overhead shot... thanks all!
Title: Re: 50Hz hum from S.E.X. amp, only headphones and left channel.
Post by: Paul Birkeland on June 17, 2020, 07:22:42 AM
Everything looks to be about in its place. Is this noise present regardless of the volume pot position?  Do you have an earthed AC outlet?
Title: Re: 50Hz hum from S.E.X. amp, only headphones and left channel.
Post by: mwgrient on June 17, 2020, 09:13:53 AM
"Is this noise present regardless of the volume pot position?" 
Yes.

"Do you have an earthed AC outlet?"
No. I Gould make or try this, did not think about it... thanks.
Title: Re: 50Hz hum from S.E.X. amp, only headphones and left channel.
Post by: mwgrient on June 20, 2020, 10:20:43 PM
I have tested an AC earthed outlet with the amp. But there is no effect: de 'silent' hum is in stereo present.
Title: Re: 50Hz hum from S.E.X. amp, only headphones and left channel.
Post by: Paul Joppa on June 21, 2020, 04:46:05 AM
Is the hum present with no input connected? You may have to turn the volume control all the way down to minimize radio-frequency interference. This is a test of ground current between source and amp, sometimes called a "ground loop". An equivalent test is to use a battery-powered source such as a mobile phone.
Title: Re: 50Hz hum from S.E.X. amp, only headphones and left channel.
Post by: mwgrient on June 21, 2020, 06:57:13 AM
Hey Paul, the hum is still there, even without any connection. No speakers, no rca input. I will test with a phone. Thanks!
Title: Re: 50Hz hum from S.E.X. amp, only headphones and left channel.
Post by: mwgrient on June 21, 2020, 08:13:15 AM
there is stil hum, with or without rca / phone connection and if played music, I do not hear it until the volume is al the way down, then I hear the hum/noise again.



Title: Re: 50Hz hum from S.E.X. amp, only headphones and left channel.
Post by: Paul Birkeland on June 21, 2020, 09:31:46 AM
So there's a sweet spot where there is little to no noise when the volume control is around the middle of its rotation? 

What kind of solder did you use when building your kit?  Did you use any flux or other products along with the solder?
Title: Re: 50Hz hum from S.E.X. amp, only headphones and left channel.
Post by: mwgrient on June 21, 2020, 10:52:03 PM
I have bought it build, but have done so much since then that I consider it build myself :-)

See attached label for solder I used. I see a lot of brown spots on the solder. So It has probably flux or something else in the core of the solder. I use flux myself too on some points (flux Almit, T435).
Title: Re: 50Hz hum from S.E.X. amp, only headphones and left channel.
Post by: mwgrient on June 21, 2020, 11:23:31 PM
I also use a soldering station with temp at 710/750 F. And see that the solder is expired??
Title: Re: 50Hz hum from S.E.X. amp, only headphones and left channel.
Post by: Paul Birkeland on June 22, 2020, 05:03:52 AM
For some reason I can't open or view the photo, is there a product name/number with the solder?
Title: Re: 50Hz hum from S.E.X. amp, only headphones and left channel.
Post by: Doc B. on June 22, 2020, 05:15:57 AM
Photoshop says the jpeg file has an "unknown or invalid marker type". You might try saving as a .png file and reposting it.
Title: Re: 50Hz hum from S.E.X. amp, only headphones and left channel.
Post by: mwgrient on June 22, 2020, 05:55:14 AM
Hope you can see it now. Picture of solder and flux.
Title: Re: 50Hz hum from S.E.X. amp, only headphones and left channel.
Post by: Paul Birkeland on June 22, 2020, 05:59:12 AM
OK, yeah, the brown dots are probably that flux you've added.  You might find it a lot easier to use a 60/40 leaded solder with rosin core flux in the solder, then you don't need the separate bottle of flux.
Title: Re: 50Hz hum from S.E.X. amp, only headphones and left channel.
Post by: mwgrient on June 22, 2020, 07:16:48 AM
thanks, I have ordered just that.
Title: Re: 50Hz hum from S.E.X. amp, only headphones and left channel.
Post by: grufti on June 22, 2020, 09:13:01 AM
The Fluitin 1532 solder is a rosin core solder. "DESCRIPTION - Alpha Fluitin 1532 is an activated rosin cored solder wire developed for general hand soldering applications. Fluitin 1532 is suitable for use in any commercial no-clean hand soldering application that specifies compliance to J-STD-004 – ROM1 standard." It's pretty standard useful stuff. There was never a need to use flux from a bottle.
Title: Re: 50Hz hum from S.E.X. amp, only headphones and left channel.
Post by: mwgrient on June 22, 2020, 12:28:44 PM
Yes, I can see that on the soldering joints. mostly with a lot of brown color. But the solder label says it's overdue...
Title: Re: 50Hz hum from S.E.X. amp, only headphones and left channel.
Post by: Paul Birkeland on June 22, 2020, 12:38:14 PM
Eh, solder doesn't really expire.  I've used solder that's older than I am.