Bottlehead Forum
Bottlehead Kits => Crack => Topic started by: zaramon on October 03, 2022, 05:10:02 AM
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First mistake I made is I used lead free solder with silver bearing rosin core. After completing steps up to page 23, I attempted to "Clip the black lead of your Digital MultiMeter to N on the IEC inlet. Clip the red lead of your DMM to L on the IEC inlet.", but when I measured the voltage, I was only getting 1.2V with the custom power cord and 5.2V with the provided stock power cable. I felt like my solder connections were solid so I likely made mistake #2 when I continued the assembly from the "if voltage is less than 115V" (which mine certainly was) I followed all of the steps for that section and on page 29 I re-ran the test and now get 7.2V with the standard power cable so it did increase, but not by much. When I ran the Secondary Power Transformer test using terminal seven and terminal 9, I get zero voltage and it doesn't change if I turn the switch on or off for this check. I'll include some pictures, but if someone could help me, I'm stuck right now and not sure what to do next. Could it be my solder in which case I need to take it all apart back to the beginning? I'll wait to hear back from someone before going down that road. I have a link to some pictures I took, but this forum is not letting me share external links. Is there any other way for me to share some of the pics I have taken?
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Can you clip your meter onto the amp as directed on page 23 of the manual and upload a picture of your measurement?
Is the fuse installed? In the correct position?
I would definitely throw away the solder that you have and get some leaded solder. The lead free stuff isn't going to hurt anything, but it's very difficult to work with.
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Good afternoon and thank you for your assistance. The fuse is installed correctly as best I can tell it doesn't matter which direction the tube ends face and they are making contact to the connectors in the bottom of the switch. How can I share images with you? The forum doesn't want to allow my external URL. I have pictures of the requested voltage test. Can you piece this together? h++ps://photos.app.goo.gl/KsWtm6FV6TRumb2y9
The last picture with the DMM is the one requested I believe.
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OK, it's good to see that your meter is setup correctly. If you shove the probes into your wall socket, do you see 120V? How about if you shove the probes into the power cord?
The fuse goes into the clip on the holder, not the square tunnel, and it's somewhat common for this to give you 0V at those terminals.
Either way, getting wall outlet and power cord readings will be helpful.
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Thank you, yes, the fuse is in correctly based on your description. I have tested both power cords and the wall outlet and they are all around 115V when tested directly.
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Leave one meter clamp on the N terminal of the IEC power entry module, then touch the other probe to the metal bar across from the L and N terminals and let us know what AC voltage you see there.
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I uploaded a few more pics, my voltage is still very low when connecting the N + L terminals, only getting a little over 3V which is slightly less than earlier today. One thing I did notice, does the orientation of the power switch matter? The instructions say to mount with the . or 1 side closest to the chassis, so that is what I did, however, moving the switch to the side with the o on it is powering the device on. Does that sound fine? I uploaded a pic of the power button called powerbutton.jpg on the same share from the previous message.
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Leave one meter clamp on the N terminal of the IEC power entry module, then touch the other probe to the metal bar across from the L and N terminals and let us know what AC voltage you see there.
In your pictures this area of metal actually says L by it.
There is no concern about the power switch at this juncture since you aren't getting your incoming AC line voltage, so don't worry about that just yet.
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Ok, I see what you meant, I misunderstood. Please see the most recent 2 pictures on the share I posted previously. One pic shows without the second lead touching the bar @ ~ 2.5V and second pic shows the second lead touching the metal bar across from the N + L terminal showing ~ 3.0V, so just a slight amount higher. Any thoughts?
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Can you retake that measurement but slip the clamps off the meter and just use the poky probes?
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Sure, I couldn't take a picture needing to use both hands, but I'm getting around 2V.
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I would try a different power cord. These are commonly found on things like printers, monitors, etc. This could just be a pin fitment issue with the current cord.
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I have a beefy powercord for my pc that I used with seemingly good connection, but still got the same/similar results. Any other thoughts or ways to break it down to basic components to test like the switch or fuse only?
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Again, it's not the switch, nor is it the fuse. You can pull the switch out and toss it to the side and it won't make any difference to the incoming voltage and the fuse is after the metal strip across from the two solder lugs. The power cord has a hot and a neutral connection that carry the incoming line voltage, and those mate up to two poky bits inside the IEC receptacle, and that is what we are attempting to measure.
What I would do next is to leave the power cord plugged into the amp but pull it from the wall. Set your meter to DC resistance and put one probe on one of the flat metal pins on the power cord that plugs into the wall, then touch L and N with the other meter probe to see if you get a 0 ohm reading, then repeat that for the other metal pin. You should get 0 ohms between each flat pin on the power cord and one of the metal bits on the IEC power entry module.
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Yes, sir, getting a zero reading when switching to DC and performing those tests.
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Do you recommend at this point that I attempt to remove all of the connections to start over? I'm not sure what to do next and I very much appreciate your help.
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What you're describing is an impossible set of circumstances. If you have 0 ohms between both flat blades of the power cord and a corresponding terminal on the IEC power entry module, then your AC line voltage will make it through.
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You should switch your meter to ohms when looking for the zero reading, not DC. DCV measures voltage. You want to measure resistance.
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Ok, my apologies for being new to using a digital multimeter, but I have a bachelor's degree in computer science with over 24 years of industry experience so I know I can follow directions well so please don't give up on me. Here's what I have this time, when clipping on one flat blade of the power cord and touching terminal L, the meter reads ~ 7.8 and when touching terminal N it reads ~0.1. Switching to the other flat plug of the power cord I get 0L when touching terminal L and 0L when touching terminal N. Please let me know if I'm making any additional mistakes. I have uploaded 4 more pictures to show these results with a clear view of the DMM in case my settings are incorrect. Thank you again for your patience and help. Again, the photos can be accessed by replacing the two '++' characters with 'tt' in the URL h++ps://photos.app.goo.gl/KsWtm6FV6TRumb2y9 to have a working URL to get around the forum blocking external URL's (sorry if I'm breaking any rules here).
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Do you have your meter set to AC volts?
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Do you have your meter set to AC volts?
Can you view the images hosted at the URL I defined in the previous post and tell met? I believe it is set correctly to Ohms, but admit I'm new at this particular endeavor. Let me know if you have trouble viewing the pics. It would be the last 4 most recent pics and I named the images appropriately to the PowerCordFlat#Terminal.
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Your neutral looks like it's coming through, but the 8 ohms on the hot side is likely an issue.
I think once some years ago we had a situation where the little pressed in nub that went to the hot pin on the IEC power entry module wasn't making good contact with the metal bar that carries that connection up to where the fuse holder is. Perhaps it's worth checking resistance to that pressed pin to see if that gives you a better reading. If that is the issue, it's likely correctable on your end pretty easily.
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I just looked at the manual for your meter. It is a bit unconventional in its operation but I think I can help.
The large selector when in the voltage position "V" defaults to the AC range. Pressing the "Sel" button will toggle the meter between AC and DC modes. The AC or DC icon on the digital display will indicate the mode you are in.
NOTE: NEVER MAKE RESISTANCE READINGS WITH THE AMPLIFIER PLUGGED IN
Resistive measurements are made by moving the selector to the continuity/resistance position. This is the one with the ohm symbol/speaker. Pressing the "Sel" button will toggle between ohms and Audible continuity. The meter defaults to Audible continuity so you must press the "Sel" button to enter the ohms mode. (I'm pretty sure this is where you were having problems.)
Take your time, review the instructions in the manual and make sure your meter is set up correctly. Your meter display will tell you which mode you are in. Refer to your meter's manual if necessary.
https://data.kleintools.com/sites/all/product_assets/documents/instructions/klein/MM420%20Instructions_web.pdf (https://data.kleintools.com/sites/all/product_assets/documents/instructions/klein/MM420%20Instructions_web.pdf)
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I just looked at the manual for your meter. It is a bit unconventional in its operation but I think I can help.
The large selector when in the voltage position "V" defaults to the AC range. Pressing the "Sel" button will toggle the meter between AC and DC modes. The AC or DC icon on the digital display will indicate the mode you are in.
NOTE: NEVER MAKE RESISTANCE READINGS WITH THE AMPLIFIER PLUGGED IN
Resistive measurements are made by moving the selector to the continuity/resistance position. This is the one with the ohm symbol/speaker. Pressing the "Sel" button will toggle between ohms and Audible continuity. The meter defaults to Audible continuity so you must press the "Sel" button to enter the ohms mode. (I'm pretty sure this is where you were having problems.)
Take your time, review the instructions in the manual and make sure your meter is set up correctly. Your meter display will tell you which mode you are in. Refer to your meter's manual if necessary.
Thank you for responding Natural Sound, In my previous (I think erroneous readings) I switched the "sel" switch over to "DC", but I could be wrong, but I don't think that was measuring the resistance in Ohms that I was instructed to do. Instead I switched the selector over to one selection past voltage to Ohms and took those readings. I admit that there was no option to select "DC" that I could find. I'm continuing to provide as much information as possible and thank you for your assistance.
https://data.kleintools.com/sites/all/product_assets/documents/instructions/klein/MM420%20Instructions_web.pdf (https://data.kleintools.com/sites/all/product_assets/documents/instructions/klein/MM420%20Instructions_web.pdf)
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Your neutral looks like it's coming through, but the 8 ohms on the hot side is likely an issue.
I think once some years ago we had a situation where the little pressed in nub that went to the hot pin on the IEC power entry module wasn't making good contact with the metal bar that carries that connection up to where the fuse holder is. Perhaps it's worth checking resistance to that pressed pin to see if that gives you a better reading. If that is the issue, it's likely correctable on your end pretty easily.
You sound exactly like myself telling someone new what to do, there are some things lost in translation with newer folk. Can you elaborate on precisely which little pressed in nub this could be in regards to and which one is the hot pin on the IEC power entry module? Many apologies as i need the low level instructions of how to make a peanut butter sandwich lol.
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Sorry I tried to help with your low voltage reading. Will not make that mistake again.
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I hope I didn't come across the wrong way, text messages are hard to discern tone. Let me start over, I am humble and thankful for any of yours or other instruction. I am happy to try anything you ask because you and everyone else on here knows better than me. If I came across the wrong way, I'm really sorry, that wasn't my intention. If there is anything I can do to mend this relationship, I'm all ears for you. I respect you and everyone else that is trying to help me and the very last thing I want to do insult you by any means. I hate this came across this way, I'm sorry I can't get my true feelings across in text messages. I'll work on that. :(
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Not that it matters, but to attempt to clarify what I meant was that I, myself sometimes can leave out small details when instructing others on a subject that I have years of experience dealing with unintentionally because my brain makes some assumptions. And I was genuinely asking if you could take a look at the pictures and tell me if it looked like my meter was on the wrong setting. That was all I meant.
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Your neutral looks like it's coming through, but the 8 ohms on the hot side is likely an issue.
I think once some years ago we had a situation where the little pressed in nub that went to the hot pin on the IEC power entry module wasn't making good contact with the metal bar that carries that connection up to where the fuse holder is. Perhaps it's worth checking resistance to that pressed pin to see if that gives you a better reading. If that is the issue, it's likely correctable on your end pretty easily.
Ok, I would like to explore this option. Can you describe the little pressed in nub a bit more so I can locate it?
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These.
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Ok, just to make sure I understand the procedure, I'm going to connect one lead to one of the flat prongs on the power cord and touch the other lead to the hot pin and take a resistance measurement and then switch this lead to the other cold pin and take a measurement. Then, repeat the process using the other flat prong on the power cord for a total of 4 measurements? Let me know if I've got anything wrong and I'll try to take some pictures of the results to share.
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What I would recommend is clipping one of your meter leads to the ground post on the IEC jack (the third terminal that wires to the chassis plate), then measure AC voltage between there and the N terminal, the little nib that goes to the L connection of the power cord, and the little nib that goes to the fuse holder.
There may be some other measurements to take beyond that, but that's a good start.
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Ok, I added three pictures of measuring AC voltage with one lead on the ground post (E) and the other lead touching post (N) followed by the lead touching post (L). Lastly, the lead touching the little nib that goes to the fuse holder (which gave me a reading finally of around 117V). Does this provide some useful information?
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OK, this is getting close to the root of the problem. Can you now repeat that measurement that gave you 117V but instead of the red probe to the nib, touch it to the bar that connects the incoming L to the fuse holder?
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Can you confirm if the bar that connects the incoming L to the fuse holder is labled as 1 or 2 in this picture or if it is located elsewhere?
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1
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That test gives me the same 118V reading.
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Now perform this same test with the probe clamped to G but measure the voltage where the black wire attaches to the IEC power entry module.
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Where is "G" located? I don't see that letter on my cheat sheet, is that short for "Ground" or something? Maybe if you could mark it on the picture it would be most helpful for me.
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Yes, the ground terminal, where one probe has remained clamped for all these tests.
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Ok, I measured the voltage between the ground and the black wire connecting to (L) as shown in the picture (I circled it) and got a reading of < 1V.
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Your fuse is blown or not installed correctly.
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Excellent! I'll start looking at that. Thank you for taking the time to work with me on this. Your time is very much appreciated!
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Thank you, Paul. The fuse does not have continuity. I couldn't see any breaks through the glass, but obviously it's not making a connection. Thanks again for helping me out!
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Do report back when you have a fresh fuse to let us know that all is well.
-PB
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I most certainly will. Just placed an order for additional fuses that should arrive Saturday. Thanks again so much, you make the world a better place!
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Quick update on my build, I finished it and could not be more thrilled/happy/excited with the outcome. The reward of the assembly combined with the superior quality of the sound from this very functional device is difficult to describe in words. Everyone that has listened to it leaves in shock and then disappointment in whatever sound setup they currently have. I'm so glad I stumbled across this and thank you for putting out QUALITY. A very special thank you to Paul Birkeland for helping me troubleshoot a blown fuse, after which I was off to the races. Thanks again, Paul Birkeland!!!
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I'm glad it was smooth sailing after the blown fuse!