Bottlehead Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Nicky on October 08, 2023, 06:20:18 AM
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Hi,
I am totally novice in Hi-Fi.
I am the owner of the Sennheiser HD700 (150 Ohm) + some Dynaudio Special 40 (6 Ohm/86db)
I admit I never used them in a proper way (shame on me)
I am looking for an AMP that could ideally match both of them.
What would you recommend please and why?
Also, which DAC would you recommend as they are so many ?
I've seen some threads on S.HD700 here but pretty old ones therfore I wonder what current equipment would match the best.
Ideally at cca 1500€ max total DAC/AMP.
Many thanks!
Nicky
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The HD-700s would work nicely on any of our amps really, but you would end up with pretty poor performance out of the typical solid state DAC+Headphone amp combo products out there since those tend to be rather limited in voltage output. On your budget you could pair a Crack with your headphones then get a 1/4" to RCA cable and use that in the headphone jack of the Crack to feed a pair of power amps for your speakers. There should be lots of IcePower/PuriFi amplifier options in the EU that aren't crazy expensive. As for DACs, I would look for something with an ESS9038, ESS9036, AK4499, etc.
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Thanks a lot for the reply Paul!
Headphone :// A DAC (with ESS9038, ESS9036, AK4499, etc. ) -> Crack (speedball?) -> HD700
Bookshelf speakers :// A DAC (with ESS9038, ESS9036, AK4499, etc. ) -> crack (speedball?) -> (1/4 to RCA) -> IceP./purify amp -> Dyn S.40
Did I understand correctly?
(sorry for the stupid questions) No AMP could potentially power the HD700/DynS40 directly instead of having 2 devices -in your product range- ? What is the added value of having 2 separate AMP devices?
cheers, nicky.
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Yes, those setups are a good place to start.
The S40s are going to want a lot of power, at least what a Kaiju provides, so that's driving my recommendation for an external high power amp. Technically what you would have is a dedicated headphone amp that you could use as a preamp if you're not using your headphones rather than two amplifiers.
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So it means that the Kaiju (quite too much vs my budget unfortunately) is too powerful to run the HD700 correct?
But then why would I need a preamp if I was using a Kaiju or any other high power Amp just to drive the S40s?
Thanks Paul.
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I suspect the Kaiju with the DC filament upgrade would be nice on your HD-700, but you would still need a preamp for source selection and volume control. If you only need one source, then you can get great performance with your HD-700s by using a Crack, and it can also be used effectively to drive a pair of larger power amps. High power solid state amps do not seem to be such a great match for driving high impedance headphones.
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I agree on the Crack with Speedball. More than great with Senn's!
What source are you using? There are so many great, low cost DAC's available now. You don't have to spend big to get absolute transparency.
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Thanks Paul - very clear.
@Mucker (thanks) - starting from a blank page (no DAC/preamp/Amp) as yet
If you know a great "affordable" DAC (with ESS9038, ESS9036, AK4499, etc. ), do not hesitate to share your thoughts !
cheers.
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When I asked what source I was referring to what you are planning to feed the DAC.
A DAC usually accepts only digital signals into it, such as from a PC, phone, cd player, streamer, etc.. DAC inputs are usually USB, Toslink, or coax.
Are you planning to use a turntable or other older devices with RCA outputs?
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Ah sorry. I guess streamer mainly and hard drive/laptop as well.
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Not sure what you would consider affordable, but Geshelli Labs makes the JNOG2 [J2] DAC available with the ESS ES9038Q2M chip at $250. And, the JNOG2 SOCKETED [J2S] DAC with the newer AK4499 chip can be had for as low as $430 (w/o USB). I can certainly recommend either of my DAC's, the more affordable Schiit Modi+, $129, using the ESS ES9018 chip, or the one I prefer, my less affordable DENAFRIPS ARES II / Enyo R2R DAC currently $841.90 (USD). It's a discrete resistor R2R ladder DAC rather than a delta-sigma chip based DAC. These are all well regarded quality products.
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We may be talking at cross purposes here, but bear with me for a minute.
The kind of amp you want, one that can drive speakers as well as headphones, exists in our product line; it's called the S.E.X. amp (Single-Ended eXperimenter's). But like most SET amps, it is low powered - 2 watts per channel, which is 3dB greater than 1 watt.
I have found that if an amp + speaker can produce 102dB at full power, it's loud enough for "most audiophiles, most of the time." Your speakers with a 2 watt amp can only produce 89dB; to get the full benefit of those speakers you'd want 40 watts (16dB above 1 watt).
"Full benefit" here means concert-hall loudness, in a largish living room, of a Mahler symphony or similar complex, spectrally dense material. This is similar to the THX home-movie-theater specs. But if you have a small room and/or cranky neighbors, or if you listen in the near field (think computer speakers), or if you don't really listen very loud, that might work with the S.E.X. amp. We make a speaker kit, the Pipette, for just such applications - it's rated at 85dB sensitivity.
The reason I mention this amp is that, like the Crack, it can drive a larger (40-watt?) power amp of your choice if you find it unsatisfactory.
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I've always thought that the minimum ohms for a Crack was about 250. Here you are saying that the HD700 with 150 ohms is fine to use with a Crack. Am I wrong with my assumption? I use HD600.
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Ah sorry. I guess streamer mainly and hard drive/laptop as well.
Are you planning to have the streamer and laptop connected to the DAC at the same time?
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Former Special 40 owner here. You might get away with the SEX configured for 4ohms in a small room at low levels (I run my equally inefficient Parts Express C-Notes this way), but I don't think the Forties would do much more than that without more oomph. The speakers spend most of their frequency response above 8 ohms, but have a couple of dips below that down to 5ish ohms that mean the SEX should really be configured for 4 ohms to work with them. I sold the my Special Forties before I built my S.E.X. amp, but I did run those speakers with a 33w push pull amp for a while, and based on that experience I don't think 2 watts is going to cut the mustard.
Perhaps when/if the rumoured Bottlehead push-pull amp comes to market there might be a purely tube option for the Special Forties? ;D Until then, I agree that tube pre to a high power amp is probably the way to go.
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Hi and thanks for your messages.
@Scott. Yes indeed "affordable" is quite subjective. My global DAC/Amp budget is 1500€. Since the crack was recommended, I have an extra 1000€ for the DAC (I guess better to take the speedball straight away). So the D.Ares II could be considered. In Europe it is more expensive than in the U.S (cca 1000€ for the basic version, +150€ for the 12th Anniversary, not sure it deserves the extra money (?). Apparently, one more input that I will most probably never use…)
@Paul. Great that a Bottlehead Amp can drive my HD700 and my S40's ! I am not really considering my living room or my office to become a big symphony complex! A 89dB loudness limit would probably be sufficient for my "needs" even if I cannot really quantify what it really means in practice. I suppose that a 89dB punctuated by a sudden peak of XdB will make a huge instantaneous demand on the amp. and that it will run out of steam very quickly… In fact, I see “my dilemma†as follows:
Option 1: AresII+crack speedball
In that case I should be able to drive my HD700 but not my S40's except if I buy a more powerful amp. Btw, Deluk (thanks) was quite surprised that the crack would correctly drive a 150 Ohm headphone (?)
Option 2: A 750€ DAC (I don't have the budget anymore for the AresII) + the S.E.X amp.
In that case, I could potentially drive my headphone + my speakers. But if it does not work "well" with the S40's I would need anyway to buy a more powerful amp while it would have been the same with the crack (with a better DAC with that option to keep the 1500€ budget).
So I guess I need to understand if the crack is finally recommended for my HD700 150 Ohm first. If not, then I will consider option 2 (will need another DAC then). If yes, would you recommend to consider the crack or the S.E.X at the end? Many thanks.
Note: just seen twofires message (thanks) and it looks that the S.E.X amp will not be powerful enough for the S40’s therefore option 2 seems to be “disqualifiedâ€â€¦ but if the crack amp cannot drive the HD700, I am back to the starting point!
@ Mucker, I did not really think if I want to connect the streamer and the laptop to the DAC at the same time. I was probably a bit more focused on the DAC/Amp pairing with my gears but I guess that if you ask the question it is somehow important!? What for…the DAC inputs? I would say "yes" because it seems to be a better/simpler use case but not sure it is really so inconvenient to connect things one by one depending what I am using (?) You want to share your thoughts on this? Cheers.
Still a long journey for me as you can notice. Many thanks for your advices (and your patience)
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So I guess I need to understand if the crack is finally recommended for my HD700 150 Ohm first.
Yes, this will work well.
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Clear, thanks.
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For what it's worth, it's my opinion that, in order of which component most strongly affects the overall sonic experience they rank:
1) headphones/speakers
2) preamp
3) amp
4) DAC
I don't think this will be considered a controversial ranking, and it may help you decide where to focus your funds. Another thing to consider is that the experience of listening to headphones is quite different than listening to speakers, both can be excellent, but never equivalent. I think it's well worth it to get a system that lets you experience both.
If I were you, I would put my funds towards the Crack (probably w/o speedball to start) and a high quality class D amp (ICE, Purify or Hypex) as you suggested in your second post. The Crack doing double duty as a headphone amp and a preamp for the class D. Tube preamps pair very nicely with quality class D and can yield a system that will drive any speaker with ease. I would pair those with a relatively cheap DAC (like a Topping e30 for example) to stay within budget.