Bottlehead Forum

Bottlehead Kits => Moreplay => Topic started by: twofires on November 08, 2023, 05:30:36 PM

Title: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: twofires on November 08, 2023, 05:30:36 PM
Quick question - I understand Bottlehead as a business is in a different place to when the possibility of Moreplay upgrades was first mentioned, but would you say these are still in the pipeline, or shelved, or other?

No stress either way, just curious.
Title: Re: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: Paul Birkeland on November 09, 2023, 04:54:32 AM
In the pipeline.  My first couple of attempts at the "simple version" of the upgrade didn't work satisfactorily, so I will be adding some additional complication to the next round of mods.
Title: Re: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: twofires on November 09, 2023, 05:40:30 AM
Ah, excellent. I look forward to seeing what you cook up.
Title: Re: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: Lowercase on November 09, 2023, 09:40:26 AM
Any hints to what the upgrades may be? I assume a stepped volume control, but curious if anything unexpected is expected? :)
Title: Re: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: denti alligator on November 24, 2023, 04:00:42 PM
Now that I’ve ordered a Moreplay, I’m also curious what the upgrades will look like.
Title: Re: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: FS on January 15, 2024, 07:17:44 AM
Bumping up this thread in hope of some update on the hinted-at but so far elusive upgrades to the Moreplay...I am planning to start that build soon and I am wondering what's in the works in the Bottlehead foundry... :)
Are there any plans for something similar to the "SmashQuiet attenuator upgrade"? As always, I appreciate you guys for offering improvements on existing products.
Thanks.
FS
Title: Re: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: Paul Joppa on January 15, 2024, 08:48:33 AM
Yes there are improvements on the drawing board. They just need to be prototyped, listened to, revised as needed and the installation process devised. Then we can write/photograph the manual(s) and order parts for the first batch production run. Product development is an ongoing activity.
Title: Re: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: Paul Birkeland on January 16, 2024, 01:42:04 PM
I did a bunch of corrections today on a prior design and ordered up a fresh board to slog through prototyping on the upgrade we have in mind. 
Title: Re: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: twofires on February 15, 2024, 01:41:36 PM
I saw some suggestion on the BH Instagram that this might have reached early testing, with good results?

I'll be interested to see what you've cooked up.  ;D
Title: Re: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: Paul Birkeland on February 15, 2024, 04:22:27 PM
I have one small alteration to make and we are tentatively planning on a manual photo shoot next month, but what I have here is working as intended.
Title: Re: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: twofires on February 15, 2024, 05:45:48 PM
Hooray! Nice work.
Title: Re: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: Paul Birkeland on March 05, 2024, 01:06:10 PM
Here's a little teaser pic of what we have been working on for the upcoming Moreplay upgrade.  With the current BeePre2 and Moreplay, there's much to be gained by going to a constant current source load on the primary voltage gain triode, as the loading is quite low to begin with and the plate load and volume pot are in parallel with each other and both acting as loads simultaneously.  By swapping out the stock plate load resistors with a C4S, one of those loads almost entirely goes away, and the 6V6 operates much more happily.  In looking at before and after shots of the distortion spectrum, the second harmonic pretty much stays as-is, but the higher order nasties disappear.   

The C4S loads get fed by a solid state shunt regulator that's somewhat similar to what's used in our Integration upgrade for the Seduction.  This helps to isolate the power supply from carrying signal current and keeps the power supply noise out of the signal path. 

The back half of this large upgrade board houses a low voltage DC supply that feeds two individual 1085 regulators to feed super quiet DC to each 6V6, which reduces the 60Hz noise that was somewhat present in the stock circuit. 

Up front I have designed a PC board that holds the standard Alps balance and Alps volume pot.  The commonly available parts have slightly different shaft lengths, but by mounting them on a sub plate below the chassis, we are able to negate that issue up top and the knobs fit back on evenly.  The Alps balance pot has zero insertion loss compared to the stock balance pot setup, and this further assists the signal to noise ratio of the preamp.  There is also a center detent, so there's no need to fiddle with adjusting the knob up top to get it pointed just right for even channel balance.  The Alps volume pot is very well regarded and offers a nice improvement in channel balance and clarity. 

Ultimately when collecting data and running the numbers on how to make our typical coarse/fine attenuator work with this specific circuit, the Alps pot ended up making a whole lot more sense compared to the tradeoffs we were looking at otherwise. 
Title: Re: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: Karl5150 on March 06, 2024, 02:24:07 AM
Looks very cool - I like the idea of an upgrade to the stock pots that retains the balance function.
Karl
Title: Re: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: Doc B. on March 06, 2024, 06:42:23 AM
And now next month is this month. I am writing and hoping to wrap up the new subwoofer amp kit manual this week and then we will move right on to the Moreplay upgrade manual.
Title: Re: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: Mucker on March 06, 2024, 10:34:40 AM
I like it! Nice clean look. Questions ... does the gain remain the same? Will there be a top plate? Will the 6K6 still work ok? Thx!

Title: Re: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: Paul Birkeland on March 06, 2024, 11:08:11 AM
Gain increases just slightly, though I will have to measure the stock one I have here vs. the modded one to say exactly by how much.  I could go either way on the top plate, but I'm leaning towards not offering that since there isn't any thing particularly nebulous about how the controls operate vs. the stock amp.  We have done stickers in the past, and I could see possibly designing a short sticker to go across the entire top panel to provide some labels, but ultimately that will have to be something we discuss before officially launching the product. 
Title: Re: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: Mucker on March 06, 2024, 01:05:16 PM
Roger that. Great job on the progress! Oh and is the 6K6 going to be a drop in? I'm using a few sets with the stock setup.
Title: Re: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: Paul Birkeland on March 06, 2024, 01:28:13 PM
The heater current restrictions of the stock circuit can be slightly lightened with this upgrade, especially if you are drawing less current.  I don't immediately see any issues with using a 6K6 with this upgrade board.
Title: Re: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: Mucker on March 06, 2024, 01:39:28 PM
Nice! Thanks for the feedback.
Title: Re: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: hmbscott on March 07, 2024, 04:00:36 PM
I'm excited! I'm wondering how tall that board will be with the heat sink and all?

I've got bigger than standard caps and I'm wondering if I should make my new walnut bases a bit taller to make some extra space for this upgrade.

BTW, if anyone wants to make their own custom chassis plate for this, I'm willing to design it for you, I've got all the dimensions so it's only a few minutes of time for me. It's gonna be on you to approve the drawing and order it though.
Title: Re: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: Paul Birkeland on March 08, 2024, 05:45:10 AM
I'm excited! I'm wondering how tall that board will be with the heat sink and all?
It fits in the base as long as you have the rubber feet on the base. 

I've got bigger than standard caps and I'm wondering if I should make my new walnut bases a bit taller to make some extra space for this upgrade.
There will be some open terminals across the front of the octal tube sockets if you want to move them there.

Title: Re: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: joegibney on March 08, 2024, 08:53:24 AM
This is exciting, I'm ready to order.
Title: Re: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: timindq on March 19, 2024, 03:32:09 PM
Ya know what would be a great idea? Offer a 10% discount on a new kit with the upgrades included. Just a thought.

I'd be happy to build another Moreplay.
Title: Re: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: denti alligator on March 22, 2024, 05:42:48 AM
I like the idea of a plate or sticker with labels for the knobs. My two cents. Will buy either way.
Title: Re: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: AG on March 23, 2024, 05:45:12 AM
I like the idea of a plate or sticker with labels for the knobs. My two cents. Will buy either way.
check this one.
https://forum.bottlehead.com/index.php?topic=15082.0

Andre.
Title: Re: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: 2wo on March 23, 2024, 05:34:10 PM
Andre, I was looking for those but forgot that it was you that posted them. To my mind they have just the right look.

Would you consider sharing?... John
Title: Re: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: denti alligator on April 27, 2024, 05:00:21 AM
Any updates on this project?
Title: Re: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: joegibney on June 11, 2024, 05:28:29 AM
Any chance the upgrade would be ready by Father's Day?
Title: Re: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: Paul Birkeland on June 11, 2024, 05:42:20 AM
I'm working on the photos and manual for this upgrade right now.  It will not be ready by this Sunday.

-PB
Title: Re: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: joegibney on June 11, 2024, 07:21:04 AM
Thanks Paul,
 That's close enough to ask for it for Father's day. A good excuse is the easiest way to spend money.
 Better than the "Ask for forgiveness" method.
Have a good day!
Title: Re: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: Love Rhino on July 09, 2024, 05:56:38 PM
I'm planning on the Moreplay being my next kit, and would prefer to grab everything together if there is an upgrade on the way.  Especially if there is a bundle or discount planned!  *Hint Hint*

 :)

Hoping for some news!
Title: Re: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: smittyny on July 28, 2024, 10:40:19 AM
Any update on the update? Thinking of building a Moreplay, but wondering if I should wait on the upgrade...
Title: Re: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: Love Rhino on August 15, 2024, 03:35:55 PM
I'm working on the photos and manual for this upgrade right now.  It will not be ready by this Sunday.

-PB

Keeping this topic alive!  Definitely interested in the Moreplay as my next kit. :)
Title: Re: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: adeep42 on August 16, 2024, 07:25:08 AM
I'm an extremely happy Moreplay owner also waiting for upgrades.
Title: Re: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: Doc B. on August 16, 2024, 03:29:38 PM
I'm headed to Bonneville next week. Right now I am knee deep in carb jets and nitrous bottles. When we get back in September I plan to schedule some time with PB so we can get the upgrade manual finished up.
Title: Re: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: 2wo on August 16, 2024, 05:54:50 PM
Best of luck on the salt...John
Title: Re: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: Thermioniclife on August 17, 2024, 02:55:28 AM
Best wishes on the flats, keep the shiny side up and please post pic's and vid if available. Bring your sun block!
Title: Re: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: joegibney on August 17, 2024, 11:38:25 AM
Nice to know others him my same obsessions!
Title: Re: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: joegibney on August 17, 2024, 11:39:19 AM
Have
Title: Re: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: Ufahkah on September 11, 2024, 05:45:14 PM
Does that mean I might be better to wait for the upgrade? I'm keen to have a crack at the Moreplay, given my lack of building experience, need for a decent preamp and fairly substantial supply of 6V6 and 7C5. I also live in Australia, so am curious about what parts come in the kits and whether I need to purchase power transformers seperately.
Title: Re: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: Paul Joppa on September 11, 2024, 06:44:46 PM
We recommend building Bottlehead products in the basic (stock) form first, and then listen to it for a few weeks before implementing upgrades. It's easier to build and easier to debug and fix any problems that way. And it's very interesting to hear the difference an upgrade makes. The upgrade manual assumes you have a working stock build to start with. There is no manual for building an upgraded version in one go.

The power transformer can be wired for 220 or 240 volts @ 50-60Hz. (Or 100 or 120v, but you don't care about those ... :^) You just need to provide an IEC power cord for your country's wall sockets, if they differ from the North American standard. Most people have a drawer full of such cords left over from old computers etc.
Title: Re: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: Doc B. on September 12, 2024, 04:41:41 AM
PB and I have scheduled a day to get the Moreplay upgrade manual images and instructions done the weekend after next. I will get it edited and ready to go as soon as possible after that.
Title: Re: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: Tom-s on November 12, 2024, 02:19:28 AM
For me I didn't notice the MorePlay upgrades are available!
So just a heads up for all others that were still waiting; like myself!

Much looking forward to this build.

https://bottlehead.com/product/moreplay-upgrade-kit/
Title: Re: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: debk on November 12, 2024, 03:07:40 AM
Me too, I ordered on this morning!

Debra
Title: Re: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: smittyny on November 12, 2024, 04:29:26 AM
Out of stock already. lol. But got mine! Thanks for the heads up.
Title: Re: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: vtecths on November 12, 2024, 05:25:57 AM
For me I didn't notice the MorePlay upgrades are available!
So just a heads up for all others that were still waiting; like myself!

Much looking forward to this build.

https://bottlehead.com/product/moreplay-upgrade-kit/

Appreciate the heads-up, Tom!

I must have snuck in just in time for an order as well. Here's to a nice holiday project 🤓

-Erik
Title: Re: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: Rockyhill on November 12, 2024, 12:01:37 PM
Good to know! Will make this a winter project.
Title: Re: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: Doc B. on November 12, 2024, 12:55:04 PM
We were only able to get 15 of the rather unique Alps Blue MN taper balance pots with a center detent, hence ony 15 kits in this initial run. More pots are on backorder and the ETA is around the end of January.
Title: Re: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: Bateman147 on November 12, 2024, 01:25:17 PM
Well - the rest of us will just have to wait til then - and be envious of all the reports of greatness !  😁

This morning I thought I'd better order an upgrade kit today in case they sell out - doh!!

I'm glad for you guys that there's that much demand, but...

Title: Re: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: Doc B. on November 13, 2024, 08:32:00 AM
There were plenty in stock at our distributor for an initial run when we were first getting ready to write the manual. Unfortunately by the time we actually found time to write the manual and pull the parts list together for an initial parts order the supply had been depleted. We could have made the decision to put the release on hold until the next round of pots came in, but there was so much buzz about this kit that we thought it best to release what we could. Delivery times are often pretty conservative from that distributor. Hopefully we will see the pots before their ETA.
Title: Re: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: Love Rhino on November 13, 2024, 03:14:07 PM
Sigh, that moment when you realize the thread you've been following for months has gone into junk, along with the newsletter.

Thanks, microsoft outlook, I love you so. 

What's another few months?
Title: Re: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: Bateman147 on November 13, 2024, 03:48:07 PM
No worries Dan - we can wait.  You guys definitely made the right decision putting out the first ones you had.

Looking forward to hearing reports from those that got in on this batch!
Title: Re: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: Doc B. on November 15, 2024, 02:10:28 PM
The first half dozen upgrade kits are packing today. We are awaiting some mica insulators that got delayed in shipping. Once those arrive we will be packing and shipping the balance of the first run kits.

Eileen and I will be away from the office for a few days early next week. All other orders are caught up as of this afternoon.
Title: Re: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: dth31 on November 15, 2024, 03:43:12 PM
This is one upgrade I’m very hesitant to do. The stock Moreplay has some real magic to it that I would hate to lose. I’ll be interested to see what people think.
Title: Re: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: Paul Birkeland on November 15, 2024, 04:00:34 PM
This upgrade barely influences the second harmonic but really suppresses the higher order harmonics that aren't as pleasant to listen to. 
Title: Re: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: cpditter on November 19, 2024, 11:53:59 AM
I too was too slow to order as we were on vacation and thought, "Well I'll just order when we get home"...oh well, hopefully will get in on the next run!

Thanks for the explanation on why the small first run.

Thanks,
Chuck
Title: Re: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: nsorens on November 27, 2024, 03:22:45 PM
I too was worried about losing the Moreplay Magic but am happy to report you shouldn’t worry about it.  It just went from warm and cozy to WARM AND COZY!   Like Doc and Paul’s other upgrade kits this one makes more detail, resolution and impact.
Thanks to Doc and Eileen for continuing to make great kits and upgrades!
Title: Re: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: adeep42 on November 28, 2024, 05:26:09 AM
Is there a way to secure a spot for the next release. I love my Moreplay. I want to love it even more!
Title: Re: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: Doc B. on November 28, 2024, 06:13:28 AM
Not to worry - there will be plenty in stock when they become available again.
Title: Re: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: joralieu on December 11, 2024, 01:11:44 PM
On the high voltage circuit test I get 185 volts at B+ reg TP. That OK?
Title: Re: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: Paul Birkeland on December 11, 2024, 02:22:41 PM
Yes, that's within the acceptable range, which I suspect we will adjust in the next manual revision.
Title: Re: Moreplay add ons - were there still any upgrades planned?
Post by: joralieu on December 11, 2024, 02:24:44 PM
Thank You