Bottlehead Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Grainger49 on February 24, 2011, 10:20:22 AM
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I know that RCA plugs/jacks were used in the 50s, probably earlier. It is a pressure fitting. There are so many better connectors today.
Why doesn't audio use them? We, as DIYers, could use BNC connectors, F Connectors or a number of other, more robust, connectors.
Why?
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I've looked at some nice silver BNC connectors we carry in my lab. I never got around to it because I was concerned with compatibility issues with other pieces of gear.
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Which, I'd say, probably goes right to the heart of the matter, Maxwell E.
Other than the computer industry, which likes to use new connectors every few seasons to create compatibility issues with older gear to ensure new sales, most of the rest of the electronics field tends to see compatibility as a positive feature.
So, unless a new connector can be shown to be radically superior in function and/or price, enough so to risk incompatibility with traditional standards, it probably is not going to happen.
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I've often wondered that myself.
It's a shame speakon connectors aren't more prevalent as they make a nice, short-free connection for both polarities all at once. Of course the masses are still using 18awg zip cord with spring connections which are barely effective. I'm surprised a simpler yet still secure method has not been established.
BNCs are great and really should replace RCAs as well as F connectors.
F connectors are a pain and should be eliminated.
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What timing -- I just ordered some BNC connectors for my next project! I'm also making my own cables, and plan on making at least one set with BNC on one end/RCA on the other. No compatibility issues here I hope. So I'll have 75 ohm cable and 75 ohm connectors. I like symmetry.
One pitfall with BNC male conn. seems most requires some kind of crimping tool (no soldering), which can be expensive. On the other hand, BNC connectors seem to be tailored to specific cable -- male connectors are made for Belden 1694a, 1855a, 1505a, etc... Very nice IMHO.
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The lack of a solder option for connectors could be contributed to a lack of demand by the audiophile/DIY community. We seem to be pretty happy with RCA, and there's lots of options out there. And like rif said, BNC connectors are used exclusively with shielded coax cable, with crimp connectors for the shield. And most BNC's are made to work with the specific types and diameters of coax cable due to the crimp connection, limiting choices on custom cabling. I'm not sure if any company produces a solder terminal, DIY-oriented BNC plug.
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Vampire makes a nice BNC female, I've upgraded a couple pieces of equipment with it. It's meant to be soldered to a PCB but you can panel mount it and solder wire to it without issue. Furutech Rhodium plate BNC males are quite nice if you are building a cable. You strip a 75ohm coax cable, pull the shield back, and the BNC connects to the shield securely without solder, and you solder the center conductor.
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BNC connectors are standard in acoustics laboratory settings - in fact, most electronics labs use them exclusively. And BNC to RCA adapters are readily available; even RatShak has some gold-plated ones for less than $10. So it's easy enough to build with BNC jacks and still use RCA cables.
Of course the audio standard is still the XLR with balanced lines!
Historically I think the RCA plug was invented for long-wire antennas connected to Am radio sets; its purpose in life was to be even cheaper than whatever they were using before.
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PJ your last sentence says it all.
I was aware of the female RCA to male BNC adapter at the Shack. I had to buy one for my Ack! dAck! since it has a BNC input. It is the only DAC I know of that has one. Of course Ack! sells a cable that is RCA on one end and BNC on the other for a premium price.
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this question prompted some googling--the only answer after about an hour of searching was simply "they work" not a very exciting answer-possibly in the future cd players and amps will come with conventional rca/xlr connectors and a usb type connection and maybe eventually just a usb type connection-and some smart diyer will make a little interface pcb plate that we can all remove our rca's , rewire and use a usb type --possibly and maybe--but what will i do with all my scott, bottlehead,turntables, etc ??? use the rca's because "they work"!!!!!
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The use of RCA connectors has been a topic for discussion for a long time. However, I've made interconnects used for single ended connection with BNC's, XLR's, and of course RCA's, and I often connect the input of a preamp directly to the volume control if I am only having one input.I don't know if there is any advantage soniclly by using the different connectors, but I found that there has been a definite inprovement in sound quality when connecting the input direct.
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Pat of what caused the post was reflecting on the Incognito/Cardas/Rega tonearm wire upgrade kit. It is four Litz wires from the soldered cartridge clips to the RCA plug that goes into the phono stage. In other words each of the four wires has only 2 soldered connections from the cartridge to the Phono stage. Then that crappy connection to the phono stage.
Often arms/turntables will have other connections between the cartridge clips and the input of the phono stage. Those are most often fittings that rely on the pressure of the pins and jacks to make the connection for the smallest level of voltage in our systems. The pressure connection is flawed at best.
Yes, the Incognito/Cardas/Rega tonearm wire upgrade kit has one pressure connector at each end. But that is the minimum number of bad connections you can have unless you solder the phono leads to the phono stage.
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In that I built my Phono stage and can change the connectors at the end feeding it I can get some BNC connectorsplugs. Matter of fact, I have several chassis mount BNC connectors already.
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And now a reasonable replacement:
BNC Connector ~$1.50 (http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/27-4565?scode=EMC345&trk_msg=PD00LIOF4C8KB6VGQ1I98ID070&trk_contact=U4CQADJ94J93JFAQFRHLPHFG7C&utm_source=Listrak&utm_medium=Email&utm_term=27-4565&utm_campaign=EMC345&utm_content=EMC345)
The crimp tool costs $33, but we could make a group buy and send the tool to each other.
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Maxwell,
In regards to your question about a BNC connector using a solder connection-when I was working for the phone company, we actually had that option. It was the smallest hole in a pin you ever saw! More than just curious, I tried it, expecting to fail. The solder lept into the hole the first time. Hmmm, somebody thought this out.
G,
Just try to solder your phono cable to the cartridge itself, I TRIPLE dog dare you ;D :-[
I am not a great fan of the RCA because there seems to be slight differences between companies when it comes to fit. Hell, some of them come off with pliers! The center pin rarely gets the contact it needs in my opinion, that's why I'm tempted to solder one end.
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Nice, I wouldn't even think of soldering the cartridge. Sadly there is not a better connection at the lowest voltage level in an audio system.
I suspect that the tiny hole wicked the solder up like solder braid. I'll ask my wife about these connections. She was an Outside Plant Engineer (South Central Bell) when we met back in 1982.
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I would be a little shy of soldering to a cartridge pin. It had better be quick and perfect. I agree, there is probably no more important connection, given the voltage.
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Yes Paul is correct i think. the XLR is considered the best by engineers. The RCA plug was not even designed for audio , but RCA designed it for disassembly of stages for service work. It is at best a sloppy conection.
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Bob,
You made me look back. Paul said they were the standard, didn't say best. But maybe that is implied. The RCA connector, the subject of my rant, is the standard for home audio and is a POS. I should consider XLR connectors in my phono loop.
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Grainger, RCA plugs are standard and makes it difficult to interconnect otherwise on my equipment. . I use them here exclusively but for only compatibility. XLR are tighter connections, but I see no value in balanced connections except for very long runs. Cold welded pressure joints are the best, according to Bruce Rosenblit.
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I don't mind RCA... if I had to get rid of one connector, it would be TRS. A plug that shorts by its very nature is just bad mojo.
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Why?
Probably because accepted standards are very hard to move away from, just look at the piston-based internal combustion engine which was developed in 1858(!); it's estimated that by 2040, 90% of new cars will STILL have one. Without some organization like the Electronic Industries Alliance or Consumer Electronics Association stepping in and dictating a new standard like they do for HDMI, or market leaders gathering and creating their own alliance, it's highly unlikely it will ever change.
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I wish speaker connections were a bit simpler.
I think car audio did speaker connections better.
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