Bottlehead Forum
Bottlehead Kits => Crack => Topic started by: wullymc on March 27, 2012, 01:55:59 PM
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Hello everyone,
I am about to make the dive and buy a Crack kit.
MY experience with a soldering iron: I used one to solder new pickups into my guitar about 15 years ago. That's it.
What I currently have done to prepare:
- Watch PACEworldwide Basic soldering videos on youtube.
- ordered a simple CMOY kit to practice with (still of yet to come)
- looked at the sample Crack build pages
This will be a test for me. I am the type of person that can get frustrated, so I am planning a slow build. Probably looking at a month maybe more? I will feel really good if I can get this to work.
I have a few questions for you experienced bunch:
- how many pages is the manual? I am looking at maybe trying for 2 pages per day.
- I am confused about solder. I have read that Hardware stores/Radio Shack(The Source in Canada) don't sell good solder. I have also read that you should use 60/40 .032" lead with rosin. Would this be good solder: MG Chemicals 60/40 Rosin Core .032" ?
- I am also in need of wire stripers - I am looking at Klien. I am confused for the numbers should I get 10-20, 10-18, or 16-26 AWG?
In starting this thread I am planning on documenting my build process in hopes to help any 1st time people with getting over the fear and hopefully help Bottlehead sell more kits to first timers!
If anyone has some helpful hints to pass along please throw them my way! :)
Thanks....Dave
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Dave,
Welcome!
Here is a link to a list of all kinds of tools:
http://www.bottlehead.com/smf/index.php/topic,173.0.html
If you didn't burn the insulation off the wires to your guitar pickup you will do fine. I understand the getting frustrated thing. Four pages a night won't tax you, there are a LOT of pictures that are a great help! The instructions are less than 40 pages long, there is a lot of other information in the manual.
Radio Shack has good solder, I have used it a number of times myself. Just don't get solder with silver in it. Silver bearing solder is harder to get good solder joints.
So press the purchase button.
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Hi;
My experience is that not much good comes from the Source, at least here in Ottawa. If you can find Kester 60/40 resin core solder you will be doing fine. Here in Ottawa I got mine from good old Canadian Tire but you can also check Home Depot, Rona. You just have to watch out for the store brand products, not so much for the mix of solder i.e. 60/40 or others, but many store brands are manufactured with raw materials that are not as pure as they could be owning to the passion for recycling. Lead is getting to be rare because it is considered a hazardous substance. It is is quite often supplemented with antimony. I also find that shopping on the internet has been quite useful as well. In general stay away from exotic solders like some of the silver bearing ones until you get some experience under your belt. If you are going to by wire strippers start with the 16-26 AWG it is the best start for the BH kits.
Also do you know the temperature of your soldering iron because that also is important to good soldering.
I am sure you will find others here who will offer good advice as well. I think you will find the experience both fun and rewarding and it will be your own creation. Since I started with the BH kits I have never looked back and it would take a lot for me to buy ready made products again.
Best of luck with your build.
Mike
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Dave, I consider myself a pretty slow builder. My opinion is that the more experience you have, the slower you will tend to go. Even a snails pace will get a Crack up and running in a weekend, so there is no need to rush, just take your time and enjoy each step.
Troubleshooting a problem can add days or weeks to your build if something gets burned up in the process. The whole Bottlehead staff is super patient and helpful and they will get you the parts you need to fix and replace but the downside is that you have to wait on the mail, or UPS or hope that the Rat-Shack will have that resistor or capacitor you need.
My recommendation is to avoid all of that and just relax and enjoy each little step of the build. It sounds like you have the right idea. Be a pro, take it slow.
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Hey Dave - I'm a pretty green DIY'er, but I have tried some kits from different sellers. Bottlehead is fantastic in their documentation. Go over the directions well. Take it real slow, and understand what everything looks like and get a feel for the layout before you start. Once you get a bit of a 'handle' on the project it doesnt seem so overwhelming. As far as soldering, use the solder to transfer the heat. The solder joint goes real quick if the heat is transferred using the solder. The quicker the solder the cooler the part. It should take about 1-2 sec. Just like in the videos. If you fry a part, no biggie, you can get another one. Cheap stuff. Overall have fun!
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Dave,
My first kit was a bottlehead S.E.X. amp. Like you I was not sure what to do, but unlike you I never soldered anything. I took my time read the instructions. That are easy to follow and if you are not sure about something just post a question on the forum and someone will quickly answer your question, as you can see by the posts you have already received. The crack is a great sounding amp that I fell is easier to build then the S.E.X. 2.0 that I built. You will not regret it.
Now I feel like a drug adick pushing my addiction on someone else.
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One more suggestion. Check the Crack file here to read the Crack Assembly Manual Corrections.
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Just to add something, and it is in the suggested tools link ... get an adjustable temperature solder station rather than a stand-alone iron. There are some expensive ones that are really great but you dont have to go that route, and I wouldnt spend the money unless you DIY all the time. The Weller WLC100 is, or atleast was, probably the most popular adjustable temp. station. Of course, and iron will work but the adjustable temperature offered by a station can be a big plus. In addition, the irons are generally better quality and they can be replaced as well as allowing the option of using different size and shape tips.
As far as solder goes, I would avoid the lead free solders and, as mentioned, the silvers eventhough there are some 2% silvers that flow pretty easily. A 60/40 Rosin core is a good choice, even Radio Shack brand is fine. Or the Kester 44 is a great choice and my favorite non silver solder. I dont think you can buy the Kester in anything less than a 1 lb. spool though, so maybe not a good choice if you arent going to do a lot of soldering in the future. One of the small containers of 60/40 from Rat Shack should be easily more than enough for the Crack build. Im not an circuit expert like a lot of these guys but Im pretty decent with a soldering iron. You'll be fine, the Crack is a pretty easy kit to build.
For the stations, just some possible suggestions:
I've had this one for over 12 years and never a single problem but I think it was $50 or so at the time ... http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/TENMA-21-147-/21-147
This ones at a nice price and should work fine. It's pretty much a copy of the entry level Weller ... http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/TENMA-21-7945-/21-7945
Here's the Weller ... http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/21-3475
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Thanks guys for welcome, suggestions, and support.
I have gotten a soldering iron with variable control. it is:
http://www.princessauto.com/pal/product/8103590/Soldering-Irons-%26-Torches/Soldering-Iron-with-Adjustable-Control
and a DMM:
http://www.princessauto.com/pal/product/0700249/Multimeters/Digital-Multimeter
Next I will pick up the wire strippers.
...stay tuned!
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Dave;
Where are you located? I am in Ottawa and it would be nice to communicate with another BH member locally. i.e. North of the 49th.
Cheers;
Mike
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Hey Mike,
Actually, I'm in Stittsville! So nice and close. It would be great to talk....I was happy to hear that you live in Ottawa....perhaps I can bug you if I get stuck ;)
What BH kits have you done? What is your set up currently?
I just got back from Homedepot. I got the Klein 16-26AWG wire stripper. I am getting ready.....just need to order.
Dave
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Currently I have 2 adjustable soldering stations, this is my current one and worth EVERY PENNY! http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=374-200
this was my first station and it works just fine but temp control wasn't as good as the more expensive one but it could get the job done. http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=374-100
I'm a big fan of Parts Express, they are in Ohio so shipping to me is always snappy.
When I built my Crack I am seriously amazed at the level of patience I was able to exercise... I spent about 4 days I think, setting up, prepping everything and taking my time. My amp worked the first time I fired it up with no issues. I totally agree with Grainger49, read the list of corrections, and read the manual once through and if there is anything you are not sure about, ask questions these guys LOVE to help!
I use the Radio Shack silver bearing solder and have no problems with it whatsoever. It is 2% silver, some of the higher silver content stuff I've come across is harder to use, 3% and 4% cause me problems and grief, the 2% stuff works like a champ, I normally watch and will catch it on sale occasionally and buy 4 spools of it.
Take your time, enjoy your build :) you're going to love this amp.
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Dave;
I thought you were close just by the mention of Princess Auto. I am actually in Westboro near the Ottawa River Pkwy. Currently I have built the Foreplay 111 with the Extended Upgrade, Seduction Phono, and the Paramount Mono Blocs. My next project will be either the Smack or Crack followed by another pair of Paramounts as I want to bi-amp.
Currently I am running the above plus a pair of ASW Cantius 404 Speakers rated at 91db which seem to work just fine with the 300B tubes along with a modified Kenwood KD 600 D turntable and Ortofon 2M Black which works great with the Seduction. The other gear is an TEAC X1000R reel to reel and an old Magnum Dynalab FT11 tuner. I am five floors up facing Camp Fortune so the FM is great.
This year I plan to upgrade to a better Reel to Reel and get into the Tape Project.
This is great fun and I welcome the opportunity to get together sometime. And by all means if you need any help I will be more than happy to.
Cheers;
Mike
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Hey Mike,
It's great to have a seasoned pro in the DYI nearby. It would be nice to get together sometime and discuss the projects/music. Sounds like you have quite the set up! I will be in touch when I order. Should be over the next few weeks....hopefully sooner than later. I just want to get the CMOY and complete it for practice.
Take care...Dave
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Mike and Dave
Not to derail the intent of the original post, but I'm half-way between you! (Kanata). Would love to hear/see the kits. I'm still in that 'not enough time due to kids activities and my job to build a kit" phase, but soon, real soon!
SteveH
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Hey Steve,
I am by the Scotiabank place....so almost Kanata! It is fun to see another person from the same area. We should all get together eventually and talk kits and music.
....still looking for the best solder in Ottawa money can buy...
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Hi Steve;
Nice to find someone else locally. I hear what you are saying regarding finding time. While I am not in the same boat I do have an elderly parent I am looking after as well as three dogs. I find the kit building is a great way to while away the time for a couple of hours at night and on those rainy or cold Sundays. I can assure you the list are easy to assemble and the instructions are great. It is easy to find support right here as well.
Dave;
For solder Active Electronics on Merivale has Alpha Solder SN63 which is a good solder. The also have all sorts of tools and other products. the only thing I would caution on is that the resistors and caps they sell are not close to audio grade but for those we are fortunate enough to have Parts Connexion in Burlington as well as Electrosonic in Toronto. Both ship fast and cheap. For tube rolling, The Tube Store in Hamilton is an excellent source.
If you want to save a bit of money on solder maybe we could buy a roll between us and divide it up.
Cheers
Mike
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Hey Mike,
Hope things are well.
Sounds good with the solder. Is this the one you are talking about:
http://www.active123.com/110060-Telecore-Plus-032-P1-Sn63-sold-per-each-1-lb-roll-Prodview.html
Is this the diameter that you would use (.032") or another diameter?
I am thinking of getting a helping hands from them. Good idea do you think?
Also, when your kits from BH came was it sent with USPS? How much duty did you end up paying.
I am thinking of ordering tomorrow.
Thanks Mike, I truly appreciate it!...Dave
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Dave;
I prefer a slightly higher flux content so I would use the P2. Its a no clean solder so there won't be much residue to worry about. 1/32 or 1.5MM has worked well for me. As far as I can remember all my kits came via USPS/CPC and all I remember paying was the GST none of the UPS Fed Ex brokerage fees and the service was quite fast from the time they were shipped. When you order Eileen can give you the latest costs for shipping but I don't recall it being prohibitive.
Actually Dave don't worry about the solder I have a partial roll of good old Kester SN63 I got from when they were still Litton Industries in Brantford. I used to work for a fuse manufacturer and we bought the stuff by the truck load so I paid our purchasing dept. and they ordered some extra for me.
If you check my profile you can send me a PM and I will give you my contact information.
Mike
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.....and ordered a Crack!...can't wait to start :)
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Dave
Really looking forward to hearing (seeing?) about your build experiences!
SteveH
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Thanks Steve,
Talked with Mike last night. Really good guy. He has a lot of experience. He has the knowledge to help us if we get stuck! We will all have to get together sometime and chat.
When I receive my Crack I will let you know.
Take care....Dave
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Tried soldering together a traffic light kit.
It unfortunately didn't work. :( I atleast practiced my soldering skills or lack thereof. I used all 3 tips to my soldering iron. I think I may have damaged the board and that is the reason. I don't know...they didn't provide testing guidelines.
Next up : the cmoy. I received the kit but not all the components were there. I need to wait longer.
Also, I have found .032 to be easier to use than .040 for pcb boards.
I don't believe there is any boards to solder to for the Crack kit. I wonder for the Speedball kit how much soldering on the boards is required. Can anyone let me know.
Thanks...Dave
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Dave,
Are 0.032 and 0.040 solder or soldering iron tips? Just curious.
Look at the product page for the Speedball kit. Each component is at least two solder points.
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Dave;
Sounds like we should get together some time and I can help you out if you like.
Cheers;
Mike
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Hi Grainger,
The .032 and .040 is the solder diameter.
Hi Mike,
Yes I would love to get together. We can chat about things. I appreciate it.
Take care...Dave
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Well, I finished the CMOY today.
It didn't work....I looked at a tutorial on youtube about how to use a multimeter and was able to use the continuity(?) function to check my solder. I found one bad one and with the poor instructions also found that I had soldered the power + in the wrong location.
Fixed these and it worked!......once :( . I tried it the first time with cheap headphones then turned it off to get my good headphones. Then powered it up and I didn't get any sound. Next I hooked up the amp to my computer and was able to get a little bit of sound with static. I will have to hunt around to find out what could cause this.
...but I was so happy to get the LED to light up!! ..yeah I know amature! I must admit I was frustrated and wondered what did I do ordering a Crack...I can't even do a CMOY ....but I am relieved now. I am sure the instructions will be better with the Crack.
Take care...Dave
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Dave, the instructions that come with Crack are excellent. Just make sure to check any corrections to the instructions that are in the sticky thread on top of this forum page. You are working with a good deal more room under the Crack chassis. Im not a techie like a lot of the folks here but I am competent with an iron and have built quite a few kits over the years, plus, somehow, been able to fix a few older pieces. The Crack is an excellent first timers kit. I think you are making it even less challenging by practicing your soldering before building. A couple of the terminal strips get a little crowded but if you take your time, double check the instructions and the pictures, watch your capacitor and diode (includes the little led's) orientation and I think you'll find that it's an easy build. You'll be fine, I think you'll find it much easier than you are expecting it to be.
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Hello and welcome to a fascinating hobby,
This group is great as you may already realize. Just to toss my 02 cents in, the key, IMHO, to is two fold:
1) read and understand the instructions- as pointed out by several very experienced Bottleheads the Bottlehead instruction CD's are second to none.
2) I've been a member for over ten years and the overwhelming majority of issues I've seen with building these kits is two fold: correctly orienting parts and then soldering them well. A number of solder joints can appear to be good but be a problem when tested. Just do some soldering on any spare parts and soon you will develop an eye and feel for what is right. The stock Crack kit doesn't have any PCB's which makes it somewhat easier. Good flow and a rather shiny look to the completed solder joint are what I look for. Be careful not to over do it especially with PCB's as the trace's can be damaged, but again the stock Crack won't be an issue there. AND remember you have the support of this tremendous group should anything go awry.
Best of luck,
John
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Thanks Laudanum and John for your nice replies. I am anxious to getting going. It is now approaching 4 weeks since I ordered. I will be taking my time putting it together and I think I will be reading the instructions a few times over before beginning.
Take care...Dave
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I got my Crack yesterday!!! Yay!
Okay, first impressions of Customer Service. Great! Phoned 2 weeks ago and talked with Doc about my order and he was very nice and told me mine would be out in the next run.
When I opened the package everything was well wrapped and laid out. The order form was there with a personalized Thank you. Nice touch. Oh yeah I shouldn't forget the chocolates (3 kisses). My wife enjoyed those!
Printed the manual and started to get to work. Even though I want to listen to it I want to go slow and make sure I do a good job. Hopefully, this will avoid problems later!
The build is broken down into 3 parts. 1st part is securing the main components in order to start working on the wiring. 2nd part is laying out the wiring and soldering. 3rd is soldering in capacitors, transistors, etc.
3 manual is excellently laid out with very good details. As I have stated I am definitely a level 1 builder, very novice but was able to get it done. Now I have the top panel with all the parts attached. Next the wiring! I plan on doing 3 pages a day.
Stay tuned and thanks for reading!....
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Finally, the wait is over. Good to hear you've got your kit. I've always been impatient when it comes to waiting for things, that hasnt changed much with age ;)
I have a bad neck so I, pretty much out of necessity, take my time on the builds. Sounds like you have a good plan. Be sure to check near the top of this forum page for a sticky with any corrections to the manual and make notes. Im not positive but I think there are a couple for Crack.
Ive always glued up the wood base first and done the sanding and staining. Plus, painting the transformer bell cap. Then I work on any finish (tung oil, poly or whatever) while doing the build. Im not saying this is the way to do it, I just like the base ready to go when the amp is and the transfomer cap's paint good and dry. Im lousy with schematics but good at following directions and those included with the Bottlehead kits couldnt be much better. I've been competent with a soldering iron for a good while which is a plus. But it's not rocket science, follow the soldering basics and Bottleheads directions for making a good wire/lead to terminal connection before you solder and you'll be fine. One thing that isnt in the manual ... not necessary but I like to give the solder terminals on the tube sockets a quick wipe with some alcohol or cleaner that doesnt leave a residue. I have had a few terminals in the past that didnt like to take the solder. Probably left over oil or residue during manufacture. Again, not necessary but cant hurt, or just keep in mind if you run into one where the solder doesnt seem to want to "stick".
Enjoy the process! Im sure it will go fine and you'll have it running in no time.
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Have fun building it!
While I don't live in Canada, I am not that far from Ottawa. I am in Watertown, NY a couple of hours away.
Debra
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Great news! Can't wait to hear the rest of your build story. Maybe when you're done we can get together so I can hear it??? (Hint, hint! ;D ) I'll even bring some beverages...
Did you have any issues with customs on the kit? It seems to be hit and miss as to when charges are levied these days.
SteveH (in Kanata)
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thanks everyone for the kind words of encouragement.
SteveH, for sure we'll get together and you can hear it. As for customs it wasn't bad. I ended up paying $45.77 in total. $8.50 was a handling fee (I guess an inspection fee) and the rest was 13% HST. It came via USPS so no big brokerage fees!
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Dave;
I got your message today so I will be getting back to you shortly. Glad everything came through ok, $45.00 sounds about right for most of what I have been bringing in. USPS to Canada Post seems to be the best way to go and when you are importing a "kit" the duties are usually minimal.
Debra;
It looks like we might have the beginnings of Borders area Bottlehead Fan group!!! I've been in Watertown quite often in the past.
Cheers;
Mike
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Hey Dave,
Congrats, and just follow your plan to do it in small, manageable bits, redo any solder joints that are suspect when you complete them and you should have a trouble-free checkout.
Of course you know you will need more kits in the future :-).
Keep us up to date,
Jim
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I think everything is going well so far!
I have probably read the manual about 10 times now. I have been working on about 3 pages a night. AT this rate I should be finished by the weekend! Then the scary part ....testing voltages!!!
So far things have been going well. The manual is excellent. If I don't really get what I am reading or am wondering all I have to do is look to the accompanying photo beside it! ....maybe I shouldn't be saying too much...don't want to jinx it!
I have finished staining the wood. I just used Varathane Diamond showing the natural alder. I also have placed the Bottlehead badge on. The instructions for the assembly of the wood case are excellent. I would have never thought to tape the pieces and flip them and glue. I would have done them one at a time while trying to figure out how to hold them together while cursing!
The hardest part so far for me has been the connection and soldering of the inboard terminal of the potentiometer closest to the chassis plate. it was really a tight fit for my soldering iron. I am afraid that I burnt part of a sleeve of another wire but no exposed wire is showing!...opppps
Also, I have noticed that on page 18 it says to attach but do not solder to B7L and B8L but cannot find anywhere later in the manual that these spots should be soldered. Is that correct?
thanks for reading!...stay tuned ....now onto the leds....at page 23!
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Dave,
If I'm remembering correctly, b7 and 8 are the heater terminals, and yes, at some point you will be connecting extensions to those wires to go to the driver tube.
I don't have my notes in front of me so I can't verify these, but I think they are right.
HTH,
Jim
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B7L & B8L should get soldered. You are correct that they don't pop up again in the manual. I'll add these terminals to my list of needed revisions.
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Great thanks Jim and Joshua.
I will add that to my next job of soldering. Having fun! :)
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Well I finished the build! Yay!......but...
Measured the resistance and got the following:
Terminal Resistance Should be - Manual
1 1 *
2 1 *
3 0 ohms 0 ohms
4 1 *
5 1 *
6 2.4k ohms 2.4k ohms
7 2.8k ohms 2.9k ohms
8 0 ohms 0 ohms
9 2.8k ohms 2.9k ohms
10 2.4k ohms 2.4k ohms
12 1 0 ohms
13 1 * will climb slowly toward 270k ohms
14 1 0 ohms
20 1 0 ohms
22 0 ohms 0 ohms
B3 2.8k ohms 2.9k ohms
B6 2.8k ohms 2.9k ohms
RCA jacks:
Ground 0 ohms 0 ohms
Center pin 95k ohms 90k ohms - 100k ohms
In the manual it says to use terminal 12 for ground, however I get a 1 ohm on that terminal. If I use terminal 12 I don't get any readings other than 1 for anything. For example when I have the black on 12 and test B3 or B6 I get 1.
It doesn't look good eh? When mention Terminal 12 is that 12U or 12L or does it matter?
.....feeling discouraged. Maybe I should have just paid the $150 fee for making one and just said that I did it :(
I am currently looking at my connections but am having a tough time deciding which ones are good. I think I may have a problem with 14U. There are 4 wires there and I am not confident about the solder job.
I would say the toughest parts with the soldering were 14U, 15U.
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Quickly glancing at the manual, it doesn't look that bad. The terminals with an asterisk are going to vary from meter to meter, and it seems that your meter is just reading those as 1Ω. 14 and 20 are a little odd since they should be zeroed, but they are jumpered together, so my brain is thinking that it's a good thing they at least read the same. One other thing to bear in mind is that your probes will have some resistance of their own. If you hold the two together, what does your meter read? Remember to subtract that out when you're making very low readings (I know my meter reads about 0.7Ω, so if I see that, I'm really seeing zero). Most of your readings are within the 10-15% ballpark, which is good!
It doesn't matter where you make the reading on a terminal, they will read the same U or L since it's a solid chunk of metal.
Re: 14U, those big caps can be a bit finicky about being attached to terminal strips (and they really hate being hooked up backwards... trust me on that!). If your joint looks bad enough that you're questioning it, it might be worth clearing it off and re-soldering. The good news is with four things jammed in the terminal, you're probably making pretty good physical contact.
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Thanks Joshua
I really appreciate your help.
I have edited my post 2 up. I get 1 ohms when touching terminal 12 and it should be a ground so that I can take readings but I don't pull any readings if I use it as ground. I used the RCA ground for my readings. I put my DMM red and black together and I get a 1.
I am concerned with the terminals should have a *. In the manual I states that terminals that have a * "should wander in the tens to hundreds of Kohms or higher range. What you want to watch out for is a zero reading which would indicate that something is mis-wired."
I would hate to continue to the voltage taking and really mess something up.
Take care...Dave
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Dave,
If when you touch your meter leads together you get 1 ohm, you are measuring your meter lead resistance. That should be considered zero ohms.
Is your meter one where you select the resistance range or does it "autorange?" This can make a difference if you have to select the range.
The terminals with * usually are either high resistance or connected to a capacitor that will charge ending with a very high reading. Some meters will say "OL" some will say "HI" some will read "--". The problem is that different meter manufacturers give different indications.
These * terminals are not critical that you get a definite reading. But, as mentioned earlier, the power supply capacitors will be ruined if put in backward. The diodes are another thing to triple check.
Terminal 12 is the power supply ground, as are almost all of the terminals you get a reading of 1 on. T12 should give you good resistance readings and should be grounded to the chassis at terminal 3. I had to look through the manual quite a bit to find the grounding point. Maybe try your meter grounded at T3 and consider 1 ohm zero ohms.
Look in your manual at page 22, the middle picture. There is a black wire that ties all the audio signal grounds and power supply grounds to terminal 3. If it is not properly soldered you don't get ground on anything else. Measure resistance from the lug with the black wire on it (in the manual, I don't know if you have the same wire in the kit) to the chassis. It should be near zero ohms.
I am pretty sure your grounding problems are here.
FYI, the circuit common/ground starts at the top plate at terminal 3, goes to volume pot left hand lugs (as you look at it while assembling), to the 1/4" headphone jack lugs closest to the top plate, to T12, to T14, to T20. It may seem to jump all over the place but it is one nice clean sweep from T20, the power supply grounding point to the RCA Jacks outer conductor brought to the volume pot.
Every one of these terminals get their ground at T3.
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Dave,
It's actually good that you questioned your abilities when you thought about having BH build it. You'll soon see how easy and straightforward it is to troubleshoot and repair these things and as a result your confidence willl double and your ultimate satisfaction in a job well done will just feel all that much better.
There is value in making mistakes, finding them and fixing them yourself -- don't be discouraged.
-- Jim
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Thanks guys for your encouragement and help!
Grainger!
You were absolutely right. It was a bad ground connection. I worked my way through each ground starting with 3. I ended up resoldering 2 locations - 12L and the inside volume control......and it worked!!
Thank you so much.
Rather than start testing with the voltages I think I am going to take a break tonight and bask in the success of the resistance test!
Thanks again to everyone for there help. This is a great board and I truly appreciate it! :) :)
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Sorry guys, I have another question!
I am going to be testing the voltages and don't totally understand this:
1.-Attach the negative lead of a volt-ohm meter to ground. A good spot to do so is at terminal 12. Use of a clip lead to connect the black test lead to the ground will free one hand, making testing much easier and safer.
2.- Turn the chassis over and reconnect the negative lead of the volt-ohm meter to the ground buss.
I understand #1 and I know to flip it over so that I can turn on the amp but I don't understand to reconnect the negative lead to the ground buss. Is the ground buss still Terminal 12? Shouldn't it still be attached?
Please say a prayer for me. Don't really want to stop my heart with measuring voltages!!...plus I want to hear the amp before I go! ;D
Thanks everyone!
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It sure sounds like you are doing the test lead twice.
Just be certain that you attach to a good ground, you have several now, I like T3 the best, and use one hand to make measurements. Don't touch the chassis or any other ground with your free hand while making measurements.
I've been shocked several times. It may have hastened my needing a pacemaker. The Pacemaker was going to happen because of A/V problems but it may have hastened it.
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Dave, T12 was where I connected my meter to ground. When I took voltage readings I installed the tubes and put the amp in its base upside down, ran the power cord under the base and after connecting my meter to ground reached under the base and turned the amp on, worked well for me anyway.
Cheers,
Shawn
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Thanks guys,
Excellent idea Shawn. I will flip the chassis and put it in the wood base.
I just powered up the amp. The 6080 lit up fine, however the 12au7 did not exhibit any light. My thoughts are that I will check the A* terminals for any what looks like bad connection. It would be the red wires for power right?
Would it be bad to go ahead with the voltage check for all terminals and report back?
The fuse seems to have worked fine!
Thanks!
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Not for sure here but I think the EH 12AU7, because of the filaments, may not exhibit much visible glow but still may be working fine. Go by your voltages, not the tube glow.
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For the 12AT7 check voltage from either tube pin 4 or 5 to pin 9. There should be 6.3V AC between these points. It is low voltage and should be safe. Just don't short pin to pin.
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Thanks guys,
Tonight the plan is to do the voltage checks. I will report back.
hope everyone is having a great weekend!
Dave
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Hey guys,
I did the voltage checks. My dmm is a cheap one with no auto-range.
So for my DCV I have the settings 200m, 2000m, 20, 200, 1000.
For the voltage test I used the setting of 1000.
Also, both LEDs did not light up and like I stated in a previous post the 6080 lit up but it doesn't seem that the 12AU7 lit up.
Warning: below might hurt your eyes!
Terminal Voltage S/B Manual
1 228 90
2 233 170
3 233 0
4 228 170
5 233 90
6 233 0
7 233 100
8 233 0
9 233 100
10 233 0
11 233 0
12 0 0
13 233 170
14 0 0
15 233 185
20 0 0
21 234 206
A1 288 90
A2 234 0
A3 233 1.5
A4 0 0
A5 0 0
A6 228 90
A7 234 0
A8 234 1.5
A9 0 0
B1 229 90
B2 234 170
B3 234 100
B4 229 90
B5 234 170
B6 0 100
B7 0 0
B8 0 0
I tried taking the voltages by grounding first at Terminal 12 and then took the readings again grounded at Terminal 3.
good news: I didn't see any smoke. A lot of numbers seem to be the same. ie. 234, 233, hopefully this indicates an easy enough problem....hopefully.
I checked the fuse and it is okay.
I might try to borrow another dmm but this one worked for the resistance checks.
I kindof stuck again. Thanks...Dave
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According to your numbers, you have voltage on T3 which is a ground. Im assuming you listed that voltage from clipping the ground on T12 and measuring at T3. Obviously there are other terminals where you list high voltages where there should be none. But just looking at that alone ... I would double check your wiring. If it were an autoranging meter, I would think maybe you were reading millivolts but you stated that it isnt. Someone smarter with this stuff will chime in and narrow it down but seems that to have voltage on a ground when measuring from what should be a ground termial to ground terminal, something is either wired wrong or you have leads touching between two terminals or something. Also, make sure your transformer is labeled correctly. I dont know if that would cause all the measurment anomalies but worth a check. The stickers have been placed on upside down/reversed in atleast one instance. You can check by looking for the terminal numbers on the white terminal insulators and comparing to the label/sticker.
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Your tubes are not turning on. You should see an AC voltage, 6.3V AC, from the 12AU7 tube pins 4 or 5 to tube pin 9 that is the heater. You would have gotten an odd reading there to ground set on DC.
For all your measurements you can choose 200V after the problems are cleared. All voltages should be under 200V. But for now, 1000V is fine.
If none of the LEDs light then check to see if they are in with the silver band toward terminal 3.
As Desmond above says, you shouldn't get voltage from a "ground" lug to another "ground" lug. This indicated that your grounding scheme is off.
Terminals 3, 8, 11, 16, 17 and 22 are all grounded. The list of signal grounded points is in my previous post. Before turning it on again verify that they all measure zero (one ohm on your meter) to each other. 233V on T3 and others means that there is still a problem in the grounding scheme.
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Thanks Desmond, Grainger,
I went back and checked the ground connections. It looked like my terminal 12 was not working. I resoldered it but it didn't make a difference. I then went and looked at the black wires coming from it and going to it and noticed that my connection to the headphone jack had come loose. Resoldered and everything checked out okay for resistence.
Next: I fired it up and tested the voltage.....I did it!!!!1 I am sooooo happy.
My new numbers are:
Terminal Voltage S/B Manual
1 81 90
2 169 170
3 0 0
4 169 170
5 83 90
6 0 0
7 103 100
8 0 0
9 104 100
10 0 0
11 0 0
12 0 0
13 170 170
14 0 0
15 191 185
20 0 0
21 212 206
A1 82 90
A2 0 0
A3 1 1.5
A4 0 0
A5 0 0
A6 81 90
A7 0 0
A8 1 1.5
A9 0 0
B1 81 90
B2 170 170
B3 104 100
B4 82 90
B5 170 170
B6 105 100
B7 0 0
B8 0 0
....and both LEDs lit up!!!
And for the headphone TRS jack the readings I got when I turned it on were:
Tip - very quickly goes to 12.1 but then quickly down to 0 within I would say 2 sec
Ring - fast 16 then down to 0 in 2 seconds.
I am thinking about trying headphones now do you think I should be fine. I guess that if it reaches 0 your headphone will be fine? Is that right?
I have read not to start the amp with headphones plugged in but to wait a little while and then insert the tip into the headphone jack with the volume at 0.
Thanks for all your help. I am feeling realllllly good!
Take care.....Dave
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Congratulations!
This community is AWESOME isn't it!
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Congrats Dave!
Your next post will be your most important: how the thing sounds! It is a known fact that a piece of gear you build yourself always sounds better than anything else.
You're right on with those safety precautions for protecting your cans.
Pick out a good track you love and prepare to be blown away!
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The quote below describes a fix that keeps the startup voltage down. You might as well do this while your soldering iron is still warm.
I guess I forgot the most important thing: congratulations on getting your first Bottlehead amp to glow!
I'm not sure how Doc and I missed this in the prototyping and manual writing process, but there's an easy modification for your Crack amp that will keep the startup voltage at the output down to 0v with no headphones plugged in.
Look at the 1/4" jack and find the two unused solder terminals. Connect both of those to ground (the terminal row closest to the chassis plate).
The 1/4" jack supplied has a switching function built in, so when no headphones are plugged in, the output is shorted to ground, and thus the coupling caps at the output will charge without restriction.
When you plug your cans in, that connection is lifted and your music will flow through.
Our apologies for missing this!
-PB
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Check out this tip from the Crack designer:
http://www.bottlehead.com/smf/index.php/topic,2946.0.html
This allows all the DC created when Crack turns on to go to ground immediately.
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Congrats and enjoy!
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Hey Dave - a big thumbs up to you!
So, how does it sound?
SteveH
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Yeah,
ave -- how does it sound? :-)
Ok, maybe you can't pull yourself away from it... that can happen :-).
-- Jim
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Thanks very much guys!!!!
I am sooo looking forward to listening to it.
I am going to either tonight or tomorrow night do the update mod for the voltage for the headphone jack. Probably tomorrow night I will have my first listen.
I am anxious. Too bad I don't have more time.
Thanks again everyone.
Take care...Dave
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Well, I have to admire your patience! I don't think I'd be able to wait that long...
SteveH
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Hey guys,
I did the headphone jack grounding. Using one black wire I grounded the 2 vacant terminals to the chassis outboard terminal. Everything measured okay for grounding.
Everything looks good, however, when I went through the resistance check fix I now get different values at Terminals 6 and 10. They now measure at 0 ohms. They should measure 2.4k ohms each(according to the manual before the headphone jack grounding). I know that this grounding has affected that.
Should I be concerned over the resistance check at these points or should I just go on and remeasure the voltage?
Thanks ...Dave
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Couldn't wait,
Rechecked the voltage. Everything is good.
I check the voltage on headphone jack on start up and everything stays at 0 ohms.
Now for the listening......YAY!!!! :)
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Sounded good!!!!
Got a little bit of static at one point.
Looking forward to my tubes burning in....
...have to investigate
kind of disappointed. :(
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I did the 0 voltage at headphone jacks on start-up mod. Basically, I used 1 black wire and threaded it through the 2 vacant terminals(ring and tip) at the headphone jack and then to the outboard terminal closes to the top plate and soldered all 3 connections.
Tested Resistance - everything was okay, other than the 2 terminals #6 and #10 which in the manual should have tested 2.4k ohms but tested 0 ohms. I believe this to be because of the new mod to ground the 2 vacant terminals on the headphone jack.
Tested Voltage - everything was okay (within 10-15% of voltages). At the headphone jack neither the inboard tip or ring terminals indicated any voltage on start-up.
Turned off amp and connected my dac to the amp.
Started amp with volume at 0.
Connected my headphones after 30 seconds, still with volume at 0.
Started music.
Everything was okay and it started to sound good after a few minutes.
Then I heard a few cracks
There was never any smoke or burning smell.
I am going to test the resistance and voltage again and report back.
Does anyone have any ideas?
-Maybe the resistors at the headphone jack are toast?
When you pull out your headphones is the headphone tip hot?
Am I using the amp correctly regards to connecting and disconnecting headphones?
1. Turn on amp with no headphones and volume at 0.
2. Wait 30 seconds or more then connect headphones with volume at 0.
3. When done listening to music turn volume to 0 and disconnect headphones
4. Turn off amp.
Is it alright if I start the amp with my dac and after 30 seconds put in a cheap pair of headphones in and start playing some music while monitoring the voltage to the headphone jack. Would this not be a good idea ...could I get hurt?
Thanks for your help.
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Carefully go over all of your solder joints. It could be that one connection was attached but not soldered and it came loose as the amp warmed up.
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Thanks very much Doc.
I went through all the joints and can't find anything.
I just check the resistance and everything checks ok.
Would resoldering all the terminals be a good idea?
I know that during building I had problems with terminals:
14U
15U
In particular I am wondering about the 270 ohm resistor going from 15U to 21U. In redoing 14U I soldered 15U with just the cap and forgot the 270 ohm resistor and had to attach and solder the resistor to it. I am wondering if maybe that could be the problem.
I will try to figure out how to post some pictures in hopes to solve this problem.
Thanks!
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Okay,
After checking the voltage, resistance I started listening to it with cheap $1 16ohm earbuds.
I had the volume around 9 o'clock and listened for about 40 minutes with no signs of crackling.
Now with the 600ohm headphones I was more around 12 - 1 o'clock position. I decided to go to that area of volume and bang crackling and popping started!!!
Now would you say to look at my connections to the volume control? Would that be a good place to look? Maybe resolder all connections there and make sure that there are no connections that after soldering might touch another terminal?
Thanks for the help...I feeel like I am almost there! :)
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It sounds like the volume control itself. Try this, use the 600 ohm headphones and crank it to the 12-1 position and then when crackling starts pull up and push down on the volume knob. It may be that the wiper is intermittent in this area of the volume range.
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Those Alpha pots are really inexpensive. They often dont track well at low volume but they sound fine (to me tin ears). Not many reports of bad ones here but it's not uncommon for them to be noisy just as you describe. Ive used them in other projects before and have had a noisy one (crackling and static). I probably have 1/2 dozen stashed away. Follow Graingers advice on the pot. Bottlehead will send you a replacement if needed.
You could also consider something like the Alps "Blue Velvet" (conductive plastic type). They track really well even at the bottom of the range and they sound fine and are quiet. Good pot for the price but a little tricky to solder because of the pin terminals instead of lugs. They are made for through-hole mounting. Under $15 at Mouser. $25 give or take at most audio parts sites. Just something to consider of you want an inexpensive upgrade in the future.
Im curious as to your Beyers being ok? I see you edited your post but I know you had posted that you plugged them into another amp and they didnt sound right and you were concerned they were damaged. I assume they are ok. Crackling and static from a noisy pot shouldnt hurt them in and of itself. Of course, if the volume was up far enough I imagine it could. But anyway, just wanted to check to see if they were ok. I love my Beyers and they are great on Crack ;D
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Thanks guys for your suggestions.
I think I will resolder the pot and see if it is okay. When doing the listening test if it starts to crack and pop I will try the method of pushing down and pulling out.
Unfortunately, my headphones are not doing well. When I was preparing the cmoy they said to use a cheap pair to test. I should have used that strategy with the Crack. I am going to keep going with the cheap pair and see where I go from there.
The Alps pot sounds interesting. In looking around it seems like a lot of people have done that upgrade. I am very novice and don't know what wires go where. I do have a helping hand so I think I could solder it first and then attach it to the chassis later.....well another option.
Thanks again. I truly appreciate the help. I figure I am getting there. I was getting excited but I have to think of this as the challenge. I find for the most part the build wasn't that bad. I had a few problems, but with going slow it is coming together. I think the more difficult part has been the testing.
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Check FAQ #6 for help on installing an Alps pot:
http://www.bottlehead.com/smf/index.php/topic,2408.0.html
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Thanks guys for your suggestions.
I think I will resolder the pot and see if it is okay. When doing the listening test if it starts to crack and pop I will try the method of pushing down and pulling out.
Unfortunately, my headphones are not doing well. When I was preparing the cmoy they said to use a cheap pair to test. I should have used that strategy with the Crack. I am going to keep going with the cheap pair and see where I go from there.
The Alps pot sounds interesting. In looking around it seems like a lot of people have done that upgrade. I am very novice and don't know what wires go where. I do have a helping hand so I think I could solder it first and then attach it to the chassis later.....well another option.
Thanks again. I truly appreciate the help. I figure I am getting there. I was getting excited but I have to think of this as the challenge. I find for the most part the build wasn't that bad. I had a few problems, but with going slow it is coming together. I think the more difficult part has been the testing.
Sorry about the phones. If new, you may be able to exchange them defective. Im not suggesting that you "lie" to the dealer. Just that some have a no questions, unconditional return (Amazon comes to mind as an example) so it would depend where you got them, and, of course, if they are indeed new and within the refund/exchange period.
The Alps pot is indeed easier to wire before installing. The FAQ covers the wiring and I believe they just wire up exactly like the stock pot. It's really not hard. I just crimp the wire to the pin first so I have positive contact and then normal soldering. I use a lighted magnifier as my eyes arent getting any younger but it really isnt difficult at all. You're in Canada, right? Parts Connexion has the Alps for $18. Probably cheaper for you there over saving 4 or 5 dollars from Mouser in the States and paying the extra shipping. But first things first. Regarding the stock pot, I was suggesting that it is possibly just a bad/noisy pot. Not sure resoldering will help but it's worth a shot.
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Thanks guys,
I will try the resolder today. If that doesn't work I think I will buy a Alps pot. Does it make a big difference?
Thanks for the partsconnecXion suggestion. I am looking at the page. I have a question though since there are about 8 of them. I wouldn't buy the motorized or mono ones but what one would you suggest for the stereo ones? They have 10k, 50k, 100k, and 250k.
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100K, same as stock value. Sound wise, I probably couldnt hear a difference, or not enough to buy on that alone (some can). But it's smoother, it tracks much better, most noticeable at lower volume. With the cheaper pots, especially at low volumes, left and right channels can be uneven, volume wise. And, it's quieter, no static or crackling as you turn the pot which can also sometimes be a problem with cheap pots, both when new and when they get some use. There is also the TKD pots if you want to spend more money. The most popular one is a little less than $100. Also conductive plastic and Im sure its better but Im confident that my ears wouldnt hear a difference. Speaking purely for myself, Im confident that the difference in price would be better spent on, for example, film output caps or tubes or put toward Speedball. YMMV of course.
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Thanks!!!
I just finished resoldering. I remembering missing the ground closest to the chassis and going back and soldering it trying not to hit the other wire. I think I probably got half good solder that would intermittently break away.
I have been listening at 12-1 for about 10 minutes and can't hear any cracking or popping. Hopefully this has fixed the problem!
I will do a lot more listening tonight to see if I can get it to do it. Hopefully I won't succeed!
Thanks again! I will update later. Take care...Dave
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Dave,
Sure sounds like you found the problem to me. As the amp heats up solder joints can expand and if it is a bad joint, that can indeed do what you heard.
Nice job!!
-- Jim
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Good to hear!
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thanks guys,
I have just listened to about 45 minutes of music switching another the volume from 7 - 2 trying to see if I can get it to crack and pop. I wasn't able to make it. This is good news! I graduated to using my AKG 518 ($50 headphones) and they still work!
I have noticed that when I take out my headphones there is a little bit of a pop or such when I take out the headphones at the end of a listening session. The volume is at 0 when I do so.
Also, when I take out the headphone tip it is extremely hot. Is this normal?
Am I using the amp correctly regards to connecting and disconnecting headphones?
Method A:
1. Turn on amp with no headphones and volume at 0.
2. Wait 30 seconds or more then connect headphones with volume at 0.
3. When done listening to music turn volume to 0 and disconnect headphones
4. Turn off amp.
or should I do this:
Method B:
1. Turn on amp with no headphones and volume at 0.
2. Wait 30 seconds or more then connect headphones with volume at 0.
3. When done listening to music turn volume to 0.
4. Turn off amp.
5. Disconnect headphones
Thanks very much. Just don't feel like ruining another pair of headphones.
Take care...Dave
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Sure sounds like you got it figured out.
I turn amp on, volume at 0. Wait 30 seconds or so, plug in phones. I generally turn volume to 0, turn amp off and then unplug phones. But I do get a turn off snap/pop occassionally although not a bad one. I asked about something related to this, changing headphones while amp was on and of the Bottlehead guys suggested that it should be fine. So either way should be ok. I would just use whatever method produces the least snap-crackle-pop for you.
Those small snaps and pops shouldnt hurt the phones but a large enough one could, or sustained noise could. I dont know electronic/electric circuits all that well but those type of transients (I believe that is the right word) can be much higher in amplitude than the music signals coming in and are amplified accordingly ... which is beyond what the drivers in your headphones can take. Probably what happened with those crackling and popping noises you heard before you found and fixed the cold solder joints at your pot. Im sure it will serve as a good learning experience, although a farily expensive one. Sorry to hear that it happened, and still hoping to hear that you were able to exchange the phones or get them repaired.
Regarding the hot plug tip, logically this would seem normal. The amp gets hot so anything metal inside the amp would get hot and that would unclude the metal headphone plug. I have never checked mine but Im sure it's a hot as the amp is. Maybe others will have a different take on this but it just seems logical.
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Thanks Desmond,
You have been most helpful. How long have you had your Crack?
I have just been listening again. I get a pop when I insert the headphones after powering on (after 1 minute warm up time). I have done the headphone jack mod for the initial voltage spike.
I will try the power down before taking out the headphones.
I might post the power up/power down headphone question in a separate thread because I don't think a lot of people are reading this one. I would like to get a concensus. I would hate to ruin some more headphones. I am hoping something good will come of the ones that I damaged. I will let you know...
I am looking forward to eventually checking out some tubes to swap out the originals. This will be fun!
Thanks again for your help. Take care...Dave
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I've had mine for about a year now. I havent done the start-up voltage mod yet. I dont think I get a pop when I insert the phones but I cant even recall if they are usually on my head when I plug them in. I'll check next time and let you know.
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Okay,
so I have been listening some more with my amp and I think that I have got it sorted out. I have another pair of DT880 600ohms so I think that I will wait another week before plugging them in. I am a little bit gun shy.
Now I though that I would finish this thread off by giving some lessons learned for new builders, those who are mostly novice.
Here they are:
- print a hard copy of the assembly manual
- print and read the manual corrections, make markings in the manual for corrections
- highlight where it says "solder" in the manual
- read the manual a couple of times before beginning
- go to youtube and watch videos of introduction to soldering
- split up the manual into workable chunks. 3 pages a night worked well for me. About 1 week to build then.
- read old threads of problems people reported after assembly - learn from them
- follow manual carefully and respect the installation positioning of caps & resistors.
- before soldering review that the word "solder" is there where you are in the manual. I have soldered and then have had to go back to reheat the solder to put another wire through.
- test using cheap headphones! You don't want to ruin your $300 + headphones.
- most importantly Have Fun! The building process is not that difficult, it is more the problem solving that could get stressful. Use the forum here. There are great people willing to help you out.
Good luck!
Next I will try to post a few pictures of my build.
-
Okay,
so I have been listening some more with my amp and I think that I have got it sorted out. I have another pair of DT880 600ohms so I think that I will wait another week before plugging them in. I am a little bit gun shy.
Now I though that I would finish this thread off by giving some lessons learned for new builders, those who are mostly novice.
Here they are:
- print a hard copy of the assembly manual
- print and read the manual corrections, make markings in the manual for corrections
- highlight where it says "solder" in the manual
- read the manual a couple of times before beginning
- go to youtube and watch videos of introduction to soldering
- split up the manual into workable chunks. 3 pages a night worked well for me. About 1 week to build then.
- read old threads of problems people reported after assembly - learn from them
- follow manual carefully and respect the installation positioning of caps & resistors.
- before soldering review that the word "solder" is there where you are in the manual. I have soldered and then have had to go back to reheat the solder to put another wire through.
- test using cheap headphones! You don't want to ruin your $300 + headphones.
- most importantly Have Fun! The building process is not that difficult, it is more the problem solving that could get stressful. Use the forum here. There are great people willing to help you out.
Good luck!
Next I will try to post a few pictures of my build.
Thanks for this - I've followed the thread with interest as my Crack arrives today and I'm a first time DIYer! Do post pics of your build - I'll be doing likewise when mines done.
N
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Wullymc, (we need a name here, you're one of us now),
Good advice! This list is worthy of a sticky. The only thing that I would add to it is "make a mechanical connection (crimp leads) before soldering."
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Grainger,
His name is Dave.
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Thanks guys for the feedback. It makes me feel good and I just want beginners to do well, not make too many mistakes, and have fun listening to this wonderful amp!
Pluck,
I am glad you found it a good read. That is exactly what the thread was for. I know that Bottlehead states that it is a level 1 beginner build but I just wanted to diary my build as a first timer for first timers so that they could draw a conclusion from a person non-affiliated with Bottlehead.
I am very happy to say that everything worked out well. This thread it was never modified by Bottlehead and my words are exactly as I posted them.
I don't know what my next step will be. This amp is dead quiet. I don't know if or when I will do the Speedball. I can't imagine it getting better than this! I think my next step will be rolling some tubes so I will start reading the tube rolling thread.
Thanks for reading!...now to find my digital camera and figure out how to upload photos.
Take care....Dave