Bottlehead Forum
Bottlehead Kits => Legacy Kit Products => Quickie => Topic started by: madbrayniak on April 21, 2012, 06:56:47 AM
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hey guys, i slipped when i got going on the wiring on the quickie here this morning and cut the wire to short. I tried using a spare piece to lengthen it but the wire inside just crumbled when I went to twist them together....so i was wondering if I should just buy new wire and run the whole length of where I screwed up with it....it would atleast give it a cleaner look in the end...
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All the kits I have built have had extra wire in them. You can cut a new piece and use the short one later if you get the chance to substitute it.
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yea there is extra but it seems to be a different kind of wire as the ones connected to the batteries are small wires inside and the spare is one thick piece of wire....wasnt sure if I should even use it for that....
I feel so stupid for making such a dumb mistake
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The wire supplied with the kit is solid core. Wires that are attached to battery holders are stranded, more flexible.
But using the solid core wire to extend the stranded won't hurt the functioning of the Quickie.
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Use whatever extra wire you have to get it going. We can circle back and change wire if needed. No big deal...John
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ok, thanks guys, I got everything hooked up and havent really been able to do a voltage check as the one i have isnt accurate at all. I think I am going to run to homedepot and get a cheap $20 multimeter.
I did try and test it already with an ipod but I got no music coming through. amp is on and when i switched preamp on/off i would get a light thump so I am not sure what is really going on. Any suggestions?
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hey, trying to troubleshoot what is wrong with the quickie i noticed something.
When I built it I put the PJCCS in and I notices that if the resistor was to go in without the pjccs that it is connected to two pins on the tube socket. the installation of the PJCCS says nothing about the other socket but it looks to me like it should be connected in the same manner. Is this correct? that may be my problem....
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add a piece of wire from tube socket a6-a4 and b6-b4 as I zoomed in on the pdf and saw that there is the connection there. However, still no audio, I have gone back through the entire manual of both the PJCCS and Quickie and checked all my solderings and I still have no sound.
I would normally say that it was cause i rushed through it but I really took my time with this. Still havent had a change to buy a multimeter so I will try to go get one tomorrrow.
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one more thing, the filaments in the tubes are lighting up when turned on....i didnt notice before as its by a window. However, as it is past 1am there is no sun right now so i turned off the lights to see and I do see a small amount of light in each tube.
Edit: I am also running this through my father-in-laws old Adcom GFA 6000 for the time being.
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Double check your cables.
Are your batteries new?
Double check speaker wires.
Make sure the volume on your iPod is turned up to around 90%
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The multimeter is a must for kit building. Without it you can not take the measurements at the end of construction to verify that you don't have a problem.
A cheap meter will cost under $10 and will make measurements. They may not be as accurate as a better meter but still will tell you a lot. The best part of any meter is checking for continuity. That tells you that a solder joint is good. You can take resistance measurements across many of your resistors to see if it is the right value and is soldered in well.
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ok, got a multimeter and terminals 6-10 all measure right, however, terminals 1-5 don't.
I am guessing that it may be because there is not a good connection of wires in the wire nuts that I have where I slipped up and gut the wires too short....should I solder these together and just wrap it in electrical tape instead of using the wire nuts?
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If done properly wire nuts will make a good connection. That said I would solder them so they never let go and slip some shrink tube over them. I think you can get it at Radio Shack. But get small heat shrink tubing. It only shrinks to 1/2 its normal size.
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ok, did some testing now that i got those wire nuts out of there and terminal 2 and 4 are not reading anywhere near what they should be....I have .23 on t2 and .24 on t4. and they should both be 2.5-3
some tube sockets arent reading right either but I wanted to try and take it one step at a time....
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Maybe you need a refresher on how to solder.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIDydYIVTqU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIDydYIVTqU)
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yea, i may have not done the greatest of keeping a mechanical connection but i was doing the best I could and I have soldered alot of different things....including things on pc motherboards....I triple checked all my solder joints too and they are all solid
Edit, if I wanted to clean it all off and rewire the entire thing how would I do that?
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Do you have one of these?
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=370-040 (http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=370-040)
Not sure what you are asking. Do you need more wire?
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no i dont have one of those. I know one way, which is a little more dangerous is to heat up the solder and shoot it with a can of compressed air....its how I cleaned it on pc boards before but that is different as you are cleaning it out of a small hole rather than a terminal tab.
I am going to remove the PJCCS today and try and reheat the terminals and get a better mechanical connection on every tab including the terminal 1-5 and the tube sockets
p.s. corndog71, if you really like corndogs the best I have ever had you can get at disneyland out of a little red wagon that is to your right as you are first walking out of mainstreet heading into the park....
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ok, i just finished resoldering terminals 1-5 and the tube sockets
using a pair of pliars I would make sure the wire was touching the terminals as the solder dried....
terminal 1-5 all read 0 still. my socket readings are better but they arent where they need to be. I suspect that the problem is all do to T3U but I am not sure
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I hope you remembered to pull the tubes out of the sockets before soldering.
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ok, i just finished resoldering terminals 1-5 and the tube sockets
using a pair of pliers I would make sure the wire was touching the terminals as the solder dried....
terminal 1-5 all read 0 still. my socket readings are better but they arent where they need to be. I suspect that the problem is all do to T3U but I am not sure
Since you are getting readings (we don't know if it is resistance or voltage unless you tell us) it is best to post only readings that are greater than 15% +/- from expected.
Give the expected ohms, and your ohms measured, only of those that are over 15% out of spec.
When you get to the voltage readings do the same, give what is expected and what you measure.
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wait, your supposed to unplug the tubes when you solder?!
Just playing...of course i pulled them
I dont know all the reading off the top of my head but I can tell you that I think it was socked a2 and b2 are supposed to be 23-25 and i was getting 2.3-2.4 on a2 and on b2 i was getting about 1.4
I will double check those numbers tomorrow though
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btw, I can take some pictures of it tomorrow if that would help but I followed the instructions step by step and even double checked everything
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First thing, check the wiring of the batteries. Check at the beginning of Quickie folder for a correction on the D cell batteries wiring. It is the top sticky.
wait, your supposed to unplug the tubes when you solder?! . . . .
You wouldn't have been the first to do this. That is why Rob asked. I probably have soldered on sockets with tubes in but I'm experienced, and old!
The tubes get soldered into the socket if you let solder drip down into the socket. You can't get the tubes out, you have to replace the socket and start over on that one. It isn't fun.
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ok, i hadnt seen the battery connection fix at the top of this thread so I will fix that first before i take any pictures to put on here if it doesnt resolve my problem.
it wouldnt suprise me that people have ruined their stuff by not taking out the tubes. I didnt think of soldering a tube on there as a problem, i just took them out because i didnt know if the heat could do any damage or if there was anything else that could go wrong with them.
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ok, here are the reading I am getting
needed/read
t2 2.5-3/0
t4 2.5-3/0
A1 1.2-1.5/-1.4
A2 23-25/0
A4 23-25/2.43
A5 2.5-3/0
A6 23-25/2.43
A7 1.2-1.5/-1.5
B1 1.2-1.5/ -1.5
B2 23-25/0
B4 23-25/2.57
B5 2.5-3/0
B6 23-25/2.55
B7 1.2-1.5/-1.5
Please note, I did not make the changes that are stickied to the top of the Quickie forum as I do not have enough wire for the T4L to be moved and since it should still work from what I understand in its current configuration I am leaving it for now until I can get it fixed and then I will move the wires when I get some wire
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First Question: Are those volts or ohms?
Second Question: Which are outside +/- 15% of expected.
It helps the helpers if we address ONLY those that are bad.
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I don't have a Quickie or it's manual but it looks like you don't have the filament voltage that is supplied from the D cells. I would recheck that part. Start with the wires from the battery holder, looking for 2.5-3V. then move to each connection to the tube socket. I would guess that there is a switch inline, that would be a good place for something to go wrong...JOhn
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ok i took out the only ones that are reading right(T6-T10) and a couple socket connections
those are volts my manual for my cheap little multimeter doesnt talk about measuing ohms at all so I dont even know if it can
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John,
I am not sure if I did exactly what you mean but i grabbed some new D cell out of the pack even though the others were new. Plugged them into the socket and tested it and I was still only getting 1.58 volts when testing right where they connect....
I am going through the manual AGAIN to see if I can find something that I did wrong.....
where would be the best place to get some wire, caps, resistors if I need to rebuild the whole thing again?
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here are the pictures of my build. Let me know if you see anything wrong, even after going through the manual three times i still cant catch anything.
(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1087.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj477%2Fmadbrayniak%2Fphoto2.jpg&hash=e18bead1c29b8ef6ed5496c3806818f765308909)
(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1087.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj477%2Fmadbrayniak%2Fphoto3.jpg&hash=34242e010a53307d23311ffaf4feaa8ca85a8996)
(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1087.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj477%2Fmadbrayniak%2Fphoto4.jpg&hash=6d7862f4ee5333a88fee08575aae1af853a84149)
(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1087.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj477%2Fmadbrayniak%2Fphoto6.jpg&hash=9536d3703811f0d8137d3f7e72f44d79704dbbd1)
(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1087.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj477%2Fmadbrayniak%2Fphoto7.jpg&hash=76f3f300edeb86474358c3d713bb0a83800ea4c9)
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Two things:
First, I see that tube socket pin 2 has a different voltage than 4 and 6 - but 2 and 6 are connected inside the tube, so they can't have different voltages if the tube is installed. This is true for both tubes - are the pin numbers being identified correctly?
Second, I thought the PJCCS had been removed and the 4000 ohm resistors installed (one from the center bottom power switch terminal to A5, and another resistor from that same switch tab to B5). I see in the pictures that it is still there. We can proceed either way, but A) we have to know which is the case, and B) it will be a little easier to diagnose if the PJCCS is removed until the rest of the circuit is known to be working correctly.
In either case there should be 36 volts at the switch tab as mentioned; if not then it's time to check the 9-v battery wiring - and make sure none of the 9-v batteries are dead!
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the 4000 ohm resistor was never installed as I read through both manuals before building so I installed it in the PJCCS originally since I only got one pair of those resistors. However, the extended lead is attached between 4 and 6. I will remove the PJCCS and take a close up of each socket....give me about an hour to get it off and get a picture....
The 9v batteries are brand new and I actually wasn't testing it with the tubes connected so I will plug those in and test again.
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OH! I thought there would have also been some that came with the PJCCS as well since they are used there as well.
I took measurements with the tubes and they are different but still not where they are supposed to be.
Needed/Read
T1 0/0.74
T2 2.5-3/ 0.06
T4 2.5-3/ 0.06
T5 0/0.74
A1 1.2-1.5/ -1.4
A2 23-25/ 1.2
A3 0/0.77
A4 23-25/ 1.21
A5 2.5-3/ 0.06
A6 23-25/1.21
A7 1.2-1.5/-1.4
B1 1.2-1.5/-1.4
B2 23-25/ 1.05
B3 0/ 0.78
B4 23-25/ 1.05
B5 2.5-3/ 0.06
B6 23-25/ 1.05
B7 1.2-1.5/ -1.39
for some reason photobucket isnt letting me copy the URL to post the pictures of the tube sockets that I am on now....I will get that resolved tomorrow and get them posted
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(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1087.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj477%2Fmadbrayniak%2Fphoto1.jpg&hash=f987715cd9d1ca097499c280234317e109608920)
(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1087.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj477%2Fmadbrayniak%2Fphoto-1.jpg&hash=61ed13fed4810ef0fcc0ce612460dbf2f4afa7e5)
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Ok, let's start with the easy ones.
Tube Pins A1 and A7 should be soldered together, therefore the voltage is the same. 1.4V is good, negative means you should put that battery in backward. See the first sticky in the Quickie folder.
Tube Pins B1 and B7 should be soldered together, therefore the voltage is almost the same. 1.4V is good, negative means you should put that battery in backward. See the first sticky in the Quickie folder.
I am pretty sure where things went wrong was including the PJCCS in your initial build. It is not advisable. The tube wiring seems off. Everything else I have looked at in the pictures looks right, as best I can see. But the tube sockets are the problem.
Looking at the picture I seen no wires feeding tube pins A4/6 and B4/6. This should have something from the PJCCS feeding to it. This is where the higher voltage enters the tube. You have very low voltage there meaning the PJCCS board is not feeding the voltage to the tubes. Take out the circuit board and put a 4k resistor between A6 and the center lug of the power switch. Do the same for B6 to the same terminal of the power switch. Look at page 25 and 26 of the manual to see how it should be arranged. BE quite sure that there is a wire between A6 and A4 as well as between B6 and B4.
BTW, I have never seen a multimeter that didn't have resistance on it. There may be but I haven't seen one. The Greek letter Omega (looks like an upside down horse shoe) stands for Ohms. It may not say resistance.
I don't have the instructions so I don't know everywhere it is wired to. After extracting the PJCCS, go back through the manual and verify that you have all the connections called for. Then do the resistance checks. Post only those that are out of spec by 15%.
This will get you started.
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ok, i will try that tomorrow or tuesday. I am going out of town for a job interview.
The reason that there is nothing on a4/6 is because I took the PJCCS off to take those pictures. I should have explained that.
since the 4k resistors leads have been cut so short what would you advise as the best way to get it connected to try?
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Just extend the leads with the Teflon insulated wire that came with the kit. Twist them together, not like you would under a wire nut, but instead side by side twisted. If that makes sense.
Just extend the leads then connect the Teflon wire where the resistor leads should be.
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well, i guess its true, you have to walk before you can run
it sounds AMAZING without the PJCCS so now I have to figure out what i did wrong and get it put back in there....
if it sounds this good without it I cant wait to see what it sounds like with it!
btw, you guys want to know something really ironic about this
The job I interviewed for yesturday was for a sales postion with a company that sales solder, welding rods, etc.
so maybe because of that I will get REALLY good at soldering because I will have to demo it on sales calls.....I already weld alot and I have soldered a good amount in the past but I wouldnt call myself a "pro" by any means.
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haha,
ok so what do you think is the problem on the PJCCS? think the 4k resistors didnt have a good connection on the PJCCS?
:P
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We are now on the third page of this thread, so of course I don't remember the voltages or other symptoms.
As I recall though, the voltage at the tube plates was very low. Since we now know that the rest of the circuit was wired correctly, we can guess that the boards were not delivering enough current.
First thing is to check the board solder joints, of course - in many cases there may be a solder bridge between two terminals that are close together, or a lead that was missed and never soldered.
Second, check the components - make sure the transistor is the right one (MJE350), and both it and the diode are correctly oriented. You will probably want a magnifying glass and a good light source! Remember there are two versions of the transistor with different apparent orientation (see the sticky). Then measure the resistors to be sure they have the right value and are in the right places (470 ohms, 4K ohms, and 120K ohms). Most meters will measure them correctly without removing them from the board.
If that does not resolve the problem, then we'll have to get some data. Does your meter have a DC current range? That would be useful, but we can work around it if necessary.
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hey guys, sorry for the delay as I just now have been getting the PJCCS put back in as I got the new 4k resistors in and on the board. Luckily this gave me a change to enjoy the quickie for a little while.
I have it installed now and I do indeed have the MJE350. I double checked and made sure that they were the right ones.
I also double checked all my solder joints and orientations of everything. I even reheated the solder and blew some out if I thought there was the slightest chance of a bridged connection. I didn't see any but I did that just to make everything nice and clean.
result....still not working. the 120k resistors are facing opposite directions in the manual and I have them facing the same exact ways as you can see in the picture above.
Still no sound with the PJCCS. So I am assuming that I may have a bad resistor by chance?
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I just checked to see if there was power on the CCS and there is. I do not know what everything is supposed to be measuring but there is power.
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This is incorrect. The MJE 350 always goes in the same way. That post you are referring to is about one batch of transistors we got, that looked a little different. They still go in the same way. You may be confusing this with the orientation of the MJE5731A transistor, which is not used in this kit
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To tell if you have a bad resistor, measure the resistance of each resistor.
Since it is already installed, measure the voltage at each of the three pins of the MJE350, and then measure the voltage at each of the five wires going to the PJCCS board. Measure at the board first. You should see 36v at IA and at IB, 24v approximately at OA and at OB, and zero volts at bA. You should also see zero volts at bB, since they are connected with a wire - but check it anyhow.
We can probably use that information to guess what is wrong.
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This is incorrect. The MJE 350 always goes in the same way. That post you are referring to is about one batch of transistors we got, that looked a little different. They still go in the same way. You may be confusing this with the orientation of the MJE5731A transistor, which is not used in this kit
I am confused. In the manual the grey face points to the edge of the board correct?
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i have about 35.5V at IB and IA but OB and OA are only reading 0.8
on the transistor I am getting from left to right when looking a the silver side of the transistor.....35.5-0.8-25.4 on both sides approximately.
Which makes me wonder, shoul I move the OB and OA wires to the outer most position? I soldered them exactly as it is in the manual but if I moved it to the outer OB and OA then maybe that will fix the problem?
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Paul Joppa, PJ, is the designer of the "PJ" CCS board. It is best to answer his questions and he can suss out your problems. Mine was that I didn't solder one of the transistor leads, Duh!, way back when I put the C4S into my Paramours.
To borrow a phrase from "Loud Steve" at VSAC 2003, Paul Joppa is, "The Man." You had to be at dinner with us to understand this.
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This is incorrect. The MJE 350 always goes in the same way. That post you are referring to is about one batch of transistors we got, that looked a little different. They still go in the same way. You may be confusing this with the orientation of the MJE5731A transistor, which is not used in this kit
I am confused. In the manual the grey face points to the edge of the board correct?
The MJE350 installs exactly as shown in the photo in the manual. The post that was referenced had to do with a batch of transistors we got a long time ago that looked a little different. Please disregard that. The current MJE350s look like the ones in the manual and install exactly the same way.
If you have voltage to the board and no voltage at the plate of the tube it is likely that on the PC board something is miswired, there is a bad solder joint, or something is installed backwards. Sometimes it helps to have someone else look over the board and compare it to the photo in the manual. It's easy for our eyes to miss something after we have been staring at it for a while.
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i have about 35.5V at IB and IA but OB and OA are only reading 0.8
on the transistor I am getting from left to right when looking a the silver side of the transistor.....35.5-0.8-25.4 on both sides approximately.
Which makes me wonder, shoul I move the OB and OA wires to the outer most position? I soldered them exactly as it is in the manual but if I moved it to the outer OB and OA then maybe that will fix the problem?
The emitter, the rightmost terminal, should be slightly higher than the base which is leftmost. (If you look closely, you will see B-C-E marks next to the terminals; C is for Collector.)
This indicates that the 470 ohm resistor, which sets the current and connects the emitter to the IB or IA terminal, is not connected properly. Or the resistor may be the wrong value - that's why I keep suggesting you measure the resistance of the resistors. If your meter won't measure resistance, you could replace the resistor with a new one and see if it changes things. It does not need to be a precision part, 5% accuracy is widely available and perfectly fine.
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Doc, Ill get a friend to see if he can figure it out if I dont get it going today....i agree about looking at things for too long...sometimes its best to just take a step back.
Especially when it is somthing this small.
Paul, sorry I didnt get the resistance earlier I was trying to find the manual to figure out how to do the resistance check....looked all over the entire house and garage and it wound up being in the rubber cover of my meter....woops!
weird thing is that as soon as I turn the dial to the "omega" sign there is a 1 on the screen....it kinda looks like this
[1 . ] with [] being the edges of the screen.
on IA side I am getting 177 but its kinda jumping all over the place but that may be my jitter
on IB I get 172 or so as well but also jumps around a bit...
I am testing it with the positive and negative touching oposite leads on the resistor as that is how I understood to do it.....
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quick update,
I moved the red wire from the inner most OB and OA and now I am getting some music but it is really quiet. Like so quiet that and highest volume its wisper quiet.
Paul, I havent had time to do the resistance check yet as I am going to have a friend help me with that when he gets a chance.
However, he said that the resistors need to be desoldered from the board....is that right?
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Depending on the meter, you might not need to unsolder anything. The transistor base-emitter junction is in the opposite direction from the diode, so if everything is wired correctly there is no opportunity for leakage currents through the rest of the circuit to affect the resistance readings.
Just to be sure, you should read the same resistance with the meter leads reversed.
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ITS ALIVE!
So I did indeed have the resistors mixed up. the 470K Ohm and the 470 Ohm were reversed. So I changed those out and boy does this baby sing!
I was amazed at how much base was more present in my stereo setup with it fixed. It also plays louder now too.
I feel really stupid for making such a dumb mistake....
but atleast I can say I am just a rookie
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Don't beat yourself up too much. Been there many times. It's all part of the learning experience. Now you can bask in the awesomeness! ;D
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OH I AM!
I am currently listening to Pink Floyd: Dark Side of the Moon.
However, as I am listening I got to thinking.
It would be nice to mount everything on a metal plate that was nice and polished. However, I continued to think and does anyone on here know where you can get a metal plate that has the "spotting" done to it?
I dont really know what else to call it....like what you see on this watch movement...
http://www.google.com/imgres?q=watch+movements&start=135&um=1&hl=en&qscrl=1&nord=1&rlz=1T4ADFA_enUS482US482&biw=1309&bih=882&tbm=isch&tbnid=EfGIji3WKIKdKM:&imgrefurl=http://www.savvywatch.com/info/Watch_Movements&docid=aiLebj7uyaZCBM&imgurl=http://www.savvywatch.com/media/Site%252520Files/Theme%252520Files/Active%252520Theme/Images/common/movements.jpg&w=286&h=447&ei=eTu8T7ydG6WViQLNnOWIDg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=178&vpy=199&dur=1701&hovh=281&hovw=179&tx=83&ty=185&sig=111633928306654150022&page=6&tbnh=156&tbnw=98&ndsp=30&ved=1t:429,r:24,s:135,i:183
Was thinking that doing that with the batteries mounted below in a black wood base would look fantasic with the plate finished nicely
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OH I AM!
.....It would be nice to mount everything on a metal plate that was nice and polished. However, I continued to think and does anyone on here know where you can get a metal plate that has the "spotting" done to it?
I dont really know what else to call it....
It is called "engine turning" or "Jeweling"
....BUT I seem to recall the use of the plastic top plate on the Quickie is to help control the microphonics of the tubes.
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....BUT I seem to recall the use of the plastic top plate on the Quickie is to help control the microphonics of the tubes.
Haha! Actually, the plastic is just cheaper, making the low low price possible. The vibration control is a happy accident. :^)
But yes, a really nice chassis would be pretty cool. Fortunately the plate is pretty simple; anyone who could produce an engine turned plate could probably also put the appropriate holes in that plate, too.
There ARE vibration-isolation sockets - or at least there used to be. If you can find some whose rubber has not rotted or fossilized, they could be equal or better at microphonic control. Or invent your own - your local hardware store has lots of rubber washers'n'stuff. Doc B invented a pretty cool one for 845s; maybe it would be adaptable to smaller tubes? :^)
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so in a ways I need to just figure out a way to float or decouple the socket from the plate?
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. . .
Or invent your own - your local hardware store has lots of rubber washers'n'stuff. Doc B invented a pretty cool one for 845s; maybe it would be adaptable to smaller tubes? :^)
I'm a big fan of O-Rings. You can make a tube socket float with small O-Rings around the mounting screws and a big one just outside the hole for the tube socket.
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yOU COULD FIGURE OUT A WAY TO FLOAT OR DECOUPLE THE METAL CHASSIC PLATE FROM THE PLINTH.
IE. ATTATCH THE METAL TO SHEET TEFLON ONCE YOU HAVE THE HOLES DRILLED FOR THE PLATE AND TEFLON. OR, SIT THE PLATE ON TOP OF THAT PACKING FOAM AND BUILD A NEW PLINTH TO FIT.
BERNIE.
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Speaker tape works well. I used the Alder wood base, before gluing it I knocked down the riidges the plate sits on with a router. After finishing I used the self adhesive speaker tape, which the plate sits on. Something like that along with isolating the tube sockets should help. Someone jeweled the plate on one of the Bottlehead kits, I think I saw the pics in the gallery, but I can't remember who or which kit. Looked great though!
Cheers,
Shawn