Bottlehead Forum
Other Gear => Speakers => Topic started by: John Roman on May 26, 2012, 12:15:17 AM
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Getting closer. Bass bin stained using Kona coffee and the baffle just satin clear. I hope to have the drivers mounted and the crossovers in place by next week.
Regards John
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What did you wind up using as material for the baffle?
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Hey Glynn,
The baffle is made out of 1 3/4" maple.
How are you liking the new rendition of your open baffles?
John
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Just finally finished new baffle for the speaker- replaced original strictly for cosmetic reasons. Sounds good. Currently lusting to build a pair of GR Research Super V speakers, but have used all of "toy" money currently. All speaker building is now on hold until about October when it might be cool enough to use my non-airconditioned shop. Here is a pic of latest iteration.
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I second the use of maple for baffle boards. After all, maple and birch are also use in the sound boards of pianos. Having said that, I chose a close second for the OB speakers that I made. I used cherry, but only because it was available.
If you haven't used OB speakers before, I think that you will be amazed by the natural sound stage they are capable of.
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I've read that Open Baffles need to be out quite a bit from the back wall. How far from the wall are you guys placing them?
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Can you guys tell me more about these? What size is the woofer? How complex is the cross over? I've seen pictures of these with a variety of full range speakers used. Do the plans include designs and cross overs for all these different speakers? Does the speaker require biamping? I looked on Dick Oshlers website, and he sells the plans, but doesn't give much info. Are these speakers suitable for rock and blues? I currently own Fostex 206E speakers with that are well broken in from years of use (in a bass reflex cabinet). I'm looking to build another set of speakers with them, to use while I apply a top coat finish on my Pi stage 4's. Can I use the 206's with this design? Are the woofers expensive? My current plan is to build the recommended back loaded horn from Fostex, but I'm keeping my options open till the sawdust starts to fly. Thanks.
Pfenning
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I currently run my open baffles about 4' from the back wall.
The Basszilla speakers use a Fostex 208E Sigma. I think they are too much work just to keep you occupied until you build the recommended cabinet for the 206e. FWIW, on a lark I purchased a pair of used 206e drivers after building the Basszillas and I definitely prefer the sound of the 206e to the 208E Sigma. So much so that I sold the Basszillas and am now trying to get the most from several pairs of 206e drivers in open baffles. While I plan to still try other drivers, there is something about the 206e driven full range by my Paramounts that I really enjoy. I do employ a 12" open baffle mid-bass driver per side and use a couple of 18" boxed subs, but the signature of the sound is set by the 206e drivers. This is the first speaker I have ever had where I felt a tweeter wasn't necessary - nice perhaps, but not required.
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you guys are giving me food for thought-the speaker in the link which is not finished is a tqwt-prior to building those i had them in a open baffle -i really liked the sound- not having anyone to bounce things off of - i asked a friend who at one time was a dj- he nixed them-light in the bass -i really think it was more light in the boom boom of the bass-i kept the baffles as they were 3- 3/4" layers of baltic birch and the wiring was channeled through the second layer-i guess it is time for a little experimentation and a second hearing on the open baffles --thanks howie
https://picasaweb.google.com/100635555508988591604/May23201202?authkey=Gv1sRgCMzFjNKHx5_U8QE#5745833249885355234
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Hello,
Glynn- your speakers look great. I really like the paper cone woofer. Where do have it crossed? How would compare them to the BassZilla's?
Thoburn- The bass drivers are 15". I wouldn't consider the crossover overly complex. There are crossovers shown for all the BassZilla renditions in the plans he sells. Although the drivers selected are specific to the crossover components used. That's not to say you couldn't use other drivers, just that the network may change with the changed parameters of whichever driver you select. Such as the 206e Glynn has used in his open baffle design. Keep in mind that the BassZilla's are a hybrid of sorts with the mid and tweet on the baffle and the bass is in a ported enclosure. I think this would make them ideal for biamping although not a necessity. There are a couple amps discussed to that end on his website www.blackdahlia.com/tipofthemonth (http://www.blackdahlia.com/tipofthemonth) I listen to mostly straight ahead Jazz from the 50's and 60's. This type of design really shines in that environment. Especially with my Bottlehead gear. These speakers are designed specifically for use with vacuum tube gear and really display a clarity with Jazz that really adds to the listening experience. I do listen to other types of music, classic rock and blues mostly. FWIW I've emailed Dick Olsher back and forth over the years and have always gotten a considered response. I always thought the was cool for a writer of his stature, at least in the audio community. Please consider the cost of this design as it can quickly get pricey. Upgrading the crossover components can really be expensive. I've used almost all Audience caps throughout with a few bypass caps of better quality. Check out humblehomemadehifi.com (http://humblehomemadehifi.com) for some interesting and detailed capacitor evaluations. Overall Mr. Olshers estimate for building these crossovers is spot on. The woofers are currently available through Parts Express for $250 each. As regards you possibly building the recommended back loaded horn for the Fostex I can only say they don't appear that easy to assemble. I admit to zero experience with horns but considered them closely until I heard a pair of open baffle speakers. That to me is key, being able to audition something that is at least similar to what your considering, not always easy or even possible. For me at least the cabinet work was eventually turned over to a pro. My BassZilla's have evolved to the point that once I'm done with these that's pretty much it for speakers anyway. As a member of the Bottlehead community for many years I'm a DIY guy at heart but my perfectionist nature always wants a more finished product. So I agonize over every detail and not always knowing what result to expect. That's embarrassing to admit I suppose but just how it goes in the DIY arena I suspect more often than not. That's all I have for now. Please keep the group informed what you decide and don't hesitate to ask any further questions. One last detail, I use these speakers in a fairly open room but find that they require about 3' behind them to sound good. That's measured from the back of the baffle. Good luck with your decision. John
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John I have been looking at these speakers and the cornscalas. I like these but the woodworking is a little beyond my abilities. Will your carpenter do builds for others?
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Saw your post entitled "wood worker for speaker projects" so I guess he would do that. Is there any way to make a "flat pack" and have them shipped to the east coast? Is this cost prohibitive? Any thoughts on the basszillas v cornscalas? Also please post more photos!
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I will post some pix and comments soon
John
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Here are some pix. I haven't had the opportunity to listen to Cornscala's although the concept is interesting. If you live in the bay area perhaps you could stop by and listen to my BassZilla's. For me the thing about DIY speakers is that you can rapidly spend more time and money on them than if you were to just buy a commercially available design. There are a number of open baffle designs available as diy projects online but I just don't see them otherwise. That seems to be an issue with a lot of audiophile gear, it looks good but there is just no place to listen too what you're after.
All total my speakers weigh around 130 lbs. each. In the world of UPS I'd guess at least $200 each to ship. The plans for such a build are available online. If you are truly doing this to test the design and see if you like it I'd suggest mocking up an OB and listening for awhile before you commit. Obviously the real cost is in the drivers and crossover components selected. Take a look at this site: http://www.blackdahlia.com/tipofthemonth (http://www.blackdahlia.com/tipofthemonth)
It is where I started and perhaps it could be a starting point for you.
If you have further questions don't hesitate to ask.
John
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There will eventually be a glass or polycarbonate cover for the mid and tweet x-overs. Just to keep them clean. I'm also planning a fabric cover for the woofer with a magnetic attachment. The baffle is also getting some sort of easy to remove fabric "sock" to prevent dust from collecting on the drivers. I've also toyed with the idea of some sort of subtle lighting for the x-overs. Overkill I'm sure...
John
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John, I like to post pictures of my work too, only at certain angles. Then the mistakes don't show so much. In your case, I am so impressed by what I know to be accurate work at ALL angles. Congrates on that. Putting a cover over the X-overs would be nice. Perhaps copper foil tape part way up the glass? It adds 'pizzaz'. Don't forget to place a Tesla coil nearby to discourage the curious.
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John, I have looked through Dick's site and read many of his Tip of the Month pages. I have also read many forum discussions regarding the Cornscalas. Unfortunately I am not in a position to be able to listen to yours. I live on Cape Cod, but thanks so much for the offer. If I make it out that way I will let you know. I think I liked the Zillas better but thought I would be more able to build the Cornscalas. I have some Cain and Cain upstairs (WAF) but thought I could go a little bigger in "mantown".
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The coil is on order ;)
John
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Gibby,
A couple caveats:
I've been working on these for way too long. All along the way I just kept tweaking things in an effort to improve sonics as well as the finished look. It's on this last point that so much time was spent. My point is open baffle speakers can be very simple to build, to at least get an idea of the sound. I believe the right driver is the key. One that may allow refinements along the way would be nice but it seems to come down to what you're willing to pay. For example I'm using a Fostex 208 Sigma @ about $225. From what I read it seems Feastrix is a true full range driver but cost is prohibitive. There are so many other choices..... When all is said and done I would have to wholeheartedly recommend having a cabinet maker handle making the of the cabinets. The money outlay up front can be daunting if you're unsure of the design, so mock something up cheap and just live with it for a few weeks and go from there. The WAF can be worked out later if you decide to go OB or Cornscala or ???
kind regards,
John
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As John knows, I have built a pair of the Basszillas, but not to anywhere near John's level of craftsmanship. As far as sound, most of the sound comes from the Fostex while the woofer acts mostly from 200HZ down. So don't think you need to build something this complex to get good sound. Experiment with a driver in a simple open baffle - you may be surprised at finding you like it - maybe not. But it is a great way to learn the characteristics of drivers without killing yourself or your checkbook. In just an afternoon you can create something that might be quite pleasing. Then if you like it, you can go crazy (and broke) expanding on it. If not, you're out a few hours and the cost of a sheet of particle board or plywood. The Basszilla is a nice speaker, but don't let it's complexity keep you from enjoying our hobby.
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Hi John,
A friend and I (we live in Berkeley and Richmond) are both dying to hear some BassZillas. We both purchased the plans already. If you'd be willing to have us both over anytime soon, we'd love to hear your finished speakers.
Ivan
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Hello Ivan,
Sorry for the late reply, could have sworn I'd posted a response already. Never the less you are certainly welcome to check my set up out. I'm going to need a little time to sort an issue with the pre amp. Hopefully I'll get it sorted soon and then I'll let you know. I've just been so busy with a couple other projects.
kind regards,
John
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This is very cool! The Bay Area has a lot of Bottleheads and it's nice to see some planning a get together.
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John did these ever get finished? I am still interested in them.