Bottlehead Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Oldlistener50 on August 21, 2012, 02:26:39 PM
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I built my Seduction with C4S upgrade, and the sound is incredible. I am using Grado SR-80's, and a Yamaha RX-V659 home theater receiver.
For my winter listening project, I am considering building a S.E.X. amp. Will I see a noticeable improvement in sound quality over the Yamaha?
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I think you will be really pleased, provided your speakers are sensitive enough. I had a Sony amp before building the S.E.X. and I will never go back.
The amp drives my Audio Nirvana speakers to levels way past comfortable listening and it is great with headphones too.
Ken
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I would stick with the Grados. Not into speakers, right at the moment.
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Ahh, for headphones. I dont have the SEX amp but I do have the Crack for use with my Beyers and other hi-Z phones. It even sounds pretty good with my 64 ohm M-Audios. I would say, go for it. Reviews are great for SEX and heaphones. Or, consider the Smack, switchable for hi or low z phones. All the headphone amps are great and review very very well. Just based on my experience with Crack, I think it's very fair to say that you will notice a very worthwhile improvement with SEX (or Smack). The SEX offers the advantage of double duty, speakers and phones. I think those familiar with both SEX and Smack will be able to help you make a decision if you are only interested in the amp for headphones. If speakers are a consideration down the road, then SEX is the choice. Just my 2 cents and Ill step aside and let those who actually own them assist you with details.
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Between s.e.x. and Smack, the choice is pretty easy -- the Smack is no longer in production. :-)
Actually, the s.e.x. kit is a great choice no matter what, and will assuredly sound better than an AV receiver -- assuming you like the characteristics of tubes vs SS.
-- Jim
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I'm with Jim, if you liked the sound of the Seduction you are going to like the SEX!
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Wow, really? I didnt even realize Smack was discontinued. That was short lived. What was the reason ... anyone know?
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I guess we created too many choices. The Crack and S.E.X. kit are very well established headphone products. In spite of the fact that we showed Smack a lot last year with very favorable response from listeners, the Smack was trailing pretty far behind in terms of the number sold. Part of the issue seemed to be that people were leaning toward headphones that demand a lot of power to sound their best like the Audeze. Thus they would lean towards the S.E.X. amp for its higher power output. The current version of the S.E.X. kit is such an improvement over the earlier one that the sonic differences between it and Smack are not as dramatic as they were when we originally developed the Smack kit.
That said I still think Smack was our best sounding headphone amp design and I use one myself. But the product line has grown quite a bit over the past few years and we have to trim the things don't sell over a certain number per month in order to make room for new products. We order things like chassis panels and transformers in matching quantities to create a production run. That inventory can take up a lot of space and when that inventory runs out it's time to make the decision whether we order more or make room on the shelves for other kits. We came to the end of the last Smack run and the decision was made to open up some space for kits that fill some holes in our line, like the upcoming 300B preamp.
If Smack comes back it will probably be in a little bit different incarnation, done in small runs with very premium components.
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Thanks Doc. I found the info before you posted (thanks Grainger). Your post confirms the info I had gathered and what I surmised was the reason. Makes sense.
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I should add that while we decided to stop Smack when we used up the panel inventory we had, we have a lot of the special output transformers we had made that can be configured for 16/32/64/128 ohms in the Smack circuit left in stock. I can't afford to leave those sitting on the shelf so we will be offering something that uses them. It might be a more premium finished product, as I think we can take on just about any of the headphone amps out there in terms of sonics. At the moment I'm leaning toward a DHT headphone amp, possibly based off of our work on the new 300B preamp. I know you guys are not the ones to ask about this, but there is certainly a slightly different audience of audiophiles who want the sound but don't want to be hands on to achieve it.
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Hi Doc
On that topic of the 300B pre amp, any more details on that? cann`t seem to find any info on it here on the site, thanks.
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I hope to find the time to get a new forum category going for it today. Things are moving along nicely on the project. The vacations of everyone on the project just kind of stacked up over a three week period so it will be another week or so before we get back on task. We have recently worked out some details that we felt needed to be addressed in the regulation and attenuation parts of the design, and PJ drew up a new PC board for part of the circuit before leaving town - including a very cool circuit he has dubbed a "noise shunt". When PB gets back from his vacation we will forge ahead with a physical layout and and get a functional prototype built. In the meantime we are working to cost out the design out and come up with a price so we can take pre-orders. It will be somewhere between $1200 and $1500. The kit will be available with and without 300Bs. I'm hoping we can start taking orders in October, if not sooner.
This preamp is a very special one. I feel is a substantial step up in sonics from the very good sounding Foreplay III and a much better match to the resolution and dynamic qualities of the Paramount. I guess what I'm saying is I feel the combo is going to be some of the best sounding gear out there.
Before anyone squawks about price, bear in mind that what is maybe the nearest thing to this preamp - the Manley 300B preamp - is priced over $5000. I've been committed to two things with this company, making the best sounding gear we can make, and making the best sounding gear that can be made at budget prices. So before you complain that this is not the $400 you want to spend on a preamp kit, understand that we also have a $99 preamp kit that probably sounds as good as if not better than any $400 preamp you might be considering. And we have also made not one but two integrated amp kits way under $1000 in response to requests for a cost effective tube setup that delivers the goods in a very simple form. So in fact I think this preamp that is designed to be a perfect match to Paramount (though it will work with anything you can cook up) and it's bang for the buck for top of the line price fits into the product line just about perfectly.
For those who want really inexpensive separates - we are working on a concept for that. More later...
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Doc, I really like the idea that the paramount and the new 300B pre amp will be partners, If the preamp is as good as you say, then you will have a combination of amps that are in a new league. Once I finish all of my projects, I will be purchasing the paramounts, and looking forward to the 300B pre amp. I have to also slow up on the purchasing of Photo. equipment, so that I can finance more Audio stuff.
Bernie.
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Doc,
Sounds like a lot to look forward to. About those transformers -- if I wanted to build my s.e.x. 2.1 as a dedicated headphone amp, would those be available for such a project?
Thanks,
Jim
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Yes the OT-3 will fit in a S.E.X. 2.1 in place if the OT-2. I will have to check on pricing.
But the question is, would it be an improvement over the OT-2? They are basically the same magnetic circuit, there are just some differences in the way the coils are connected to create the higher impedance taps. At 2 watts output power S.E.X. puts out so much more power than a headphone needs that the higher impedance taps aren't really that much of an advantage. By comparison the Smack circuit puts out 300mW, more than ample for headphones when those higher impedance taps are employed.
One concern I had was that the higher taps might allow more noise through from the S.E.X. circuit. We have tried it and that doesn't seem to be an issue. But I'm still not completely sold on the idea that the S.E.X. amp needs that output transformer. My HD800s sound awfully good on the S.E.X. 32 ohm tap.
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Dan,
Ok, thanks for the explanation -- I'm not going to worry about it then as my only real concern was the 3 or so 300 ohm cans I have, and if the 32 ohm tap works fine with those, no need to introduce potential noise problems, even if it is not a realproblem by your testing. Think I'd rather have the C4S :D.
-- Jim
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Where do I sign up for the first run of Pre's?
John
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Give me a little time to get the final pricing for the 300BeePre figured out and then we will start to take pre-orders. And thanks for the enthusiasm! I'm pretty proud of this one.
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Dan,
Is that the official name or do you have to come up with a new one?
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This preamp is a very special one. I feel is a substantial step up in sonics from the very good sounding Foreplay III and a much better match to the resolution and dynamic qualities of the Paramount. I guess what I'm saying is I feel the combo is going to be some of the best sounding gear out there.
Doc, I just started building my Foreplay III a while back to go with the Paramounts I just finished (I am meticulously slow.) I have made a few mods, one of which is to replace the stock shielded wiring with much higher quality stuff. Will there be any suggested mods or add-ons from BH that those of us with the FP III can use to try and approach the sonic quality of the new Foreplay? Kind of reminds me of my first iMac...bought it, and a month later they came out with a new model.
I am sure that I will have a kick-ass system as it is now, but you know how it is to always be reaching for the stars...
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In the research that led up to the 300B preamp, there were several steps done with FPIII chassis and power supplies. We talked for a long time about going with each of them before finding the next step. So once the dust settles, I imagine either one of them may appear as a product, or there will be some information on doing it yourself. After all you already have the inputs, level controls, switching, and power supply - changing the active circuitry is a relatively small step. Just for an example, there's the Smack circuit.
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Just a few pennies from the peanut gallery on the upcoming 300BeePre (if thats the name). As Dan had previously stated, the Quickie really deserves a second look for those that are on the fence about the $1.2-$1.5K proposed outlay for the 300B. IMO, the Quickie is a must build for the Bottlehead faithful, at least from the line level preamp category starting point. Headphone pre's being a separate category with its own special requirements. Given the ease (and relatively low risk) of modification to the Quickie, I agree with Dan, that there should really be no complaints about the price of the 300B. Get the Quickie first - mod it to your hearts content. Then look toward the 300B if there is that last bit of tube preamp panache that you yen for.
Lately I have been toying with the idea about a DAC upgrade, but I am reconsidering and waiting for the 300BeePre. I just believe so strongly that the pre is the key. If done wrong a preamp will ruin the rest of the sound. I believe tubes can do it right, whether its SS or tubes on power amp side. I believe that the new preamp will be SOTA. Time will tell. In the mean time, dust off that Quickie and play with some caps etc. I think you will be surprised, and also get a good feel for some component 'house sound'. ;)
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Just a few pennies from the peanut gallery on the upcoming 300BeePre (if thats the name). As Dan had previously stated, the Quickie really deserves a second look for those that are on the fence about the $1.2-$1.5K proposed outlay for the 300B.
Not sure if you were addressing my post, so I will respond with my proposed plan. Currently, I am finishing a FP III with an Extended kit. For now this will be used to drive my two Paramounts. I will also have an Eros hooked-up to it. Since this system is going to become the "main" audio system--both analog and digital, then it will do until the next Foreplay comes out. The system in my bedroom is overkill and so I am thinking of purchasing a Stereomour and using my current FP III to drive it in the bedroom. If I remember correctly, there were a few comments complementing the compatibility of the FP III and the Stereomour. I hope to slap a BH DAC into my main BH system also, and will use my current tube DAC for the TV system. Seems like things will just get better with time.
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Yoder - it sounds like you have your hands full with all those systems! If I had that many systems I dont think I would have the 'time' to shower, and tend to other important activities of daily living!
I wasnt really responding to anyone in particular, though it did hit me when Dan (Doc) brought up the Quickie as possible drug of choice if one could not afford the 300B. Not to fear.
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Yoder - it sounds like you have your hands full with all those systems!
Initially, the audio builds were something for me to do with my new retirement. But...the last few days the building has taken on far more meaning and significance for me.
You know we had the Waldo Canyon fire this summer and it dislocated a lot of wildlife. Unfortunately, my best non-human buddy "Desmond" was killed by coyotes a few nights back. I actually saw the male coyote carry his limp body off. Des was a big cat and was fighting with another cat and I think he was on top. I could hear the sounds of the fight, and then all of a sudden it was quiet. I saw the one male cat haul butt out of there and then saw Des being hauled off. He was the smartest and most affectionate critter I have ever had. He would follow me around the house like a dog, "talk" to me in cool-cat talk, put his front legs around my neck and rub up against my face. Anyway, I was pretty devastated. Hell, I did not leave the house for three days for fear of breaking down in public. I am still trying to get the image of him being hauled off by the beasts out of my head. Heavy blow, but nobody ever said that "primal nature was nice."
This was Desmond
(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.co-bw.com%2FImages%2FDesmond_FaceEffects_sm_2.jpg&hash=6b5dce8b7c65544aacf2e2b034f5683a1965de28)
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Yoder - I am so sorry for your loss. I was just saying to my wife last night, that if our dog of 12yrs suddenly died I would have to get another one THAT DAY, same bread etc. for my teenage son's sake, but I think it would have to be for myself as well. We love our pets.
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My wife is partial to orange nosed cats, she thought your picture was one of our last two.
Des looks like a happy cat. Remember him that way.
Replacement therapy helps. That is why we have 2 four month old kittens now who drive our dog crazy.
Sam & Ella (Say it)
(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi244.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fgg7%2FGrainger49%2FFor%2520Posts%2520Private%2FSamnElla.jpg&hash=aa021312e902de167d37e6eedf2eb96d0e42fc81)
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Yoder,
It amazes me how much pets can affect one's life. I was always the guy who "liked" pets but would never own them. Upon hearing that, a friend commented, "you just don't realize how special pets can be". That was several years ago. I currently own two standard Poodle's that came into my life very unexpectedly. They are a tremendous amount of work to train, groom, and care for etc. I too am retired and for the first time in my life believe I'm beginning to understand what my friend meant. They are like children, I talk to them like they were human. Princess lays her head on my bed in the morning and stares at me until I wake, just content to watch. When she see's me stir she paws at me gently as if to say " get up lazy bones, it's time for my walk".
My heart goes out to you having lost Desmond. My sister has a cat named Angel that has taken to me. She loves to jump up on the counter and drink from the faucet. I think she actually talks to me when she meows. It's a beautiful sound, and one I believe is just between us. I hope you find another friend/pet that will talk to you and help you remember Desmond.
kind regards,
John
a pic of my 1 year old pups, Belle and Princess
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Well, I have decided. After considering my listening preferences, I have decided to go with... a Crack.
I think a well-built Crack will go well with my Seduction. I have the utmost appreciation for a nice Crack, as my lovely g/f will attest to. Ahem.
Anyway, I think this combination will suit my listening needs perfectly. I plan to do the base and top plate (I love the term "gravity attached") the same way I finished the Seduction, so the two will match.
Question, will this amp work well with my Grado SR-80's or is the impedance wrong?