Bottlehead Forum
Bottlehead Kits => Legacy Kit Products => Stereomour => Topic started by: rockdrummer on November 29, 2012, 06:58:01 AM
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;D
Okay, so i am a total newbie but a diy-coholic. I built a pair of gr research monitors for my parents. I am onto a sub and monitors for my brother and talked my wife into a stereomour earlier than i thought i would!!! It is presently on order. However, i dont have the right speakers for them yet. Going to build a pair of gr research super v speakers. Anyway....
I am also, like other newbie posters, nervous but excited to get started. I have minimal soldering skills and am working to practice that too. I have a weller 100 watt soldering gun with who knows what kind of tips. Will order solder and possibly some other things to assist as i plan. Anyway, i have already felt welcome and know whatever help i need will be abundant with this great online community. Thanks and more to come.
Ben Young
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Hi Ben and welcome. My advice is to save the solder gun for big stuff like speaker terminals and get a real solder station for amp kit building. It does not have to be a really expensive one and it could make the difference between a frustrating build and a very pleasant one. You might have a look at the tech tools section of this forum for recommendations.
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Doc, that was just what Grainger mentioned. I will plan on that as my next purchase. I was very sad ehen i was done soldering the speakers i built and i think the same will go with this build. I will go very slow and enjoy every minute of it. With the right tools that is!
Ben
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Hi Ben,
Soldering IRONs are really cheap. I like the 40w. The main thing with soldering electronics is to clean the tip frequently with a wet sponge before you solder, and use leaded 60/40 solder. It melts really quick, that way each solder takes 1-2 seconds max.
cheers - Eric
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I wanted to double-check the solder purchase. I was under the impression silver solder was best. If I get 60/40 -- tin/lead solder, is that just fine?
Will practice some soldering this week when my concerts are done. Elementary music teacher and Music Liturgist wife. Busy time of year for us, and pretty much everybody.
Happy Holidays everyone.
Thanks,
Ben
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Lead/tin is a good way to go. Just go to Radio Shack, Fry's or whatever and get their electronic solder, I think the thin stuff is easier to use...John
PS. anyone know how to make the italics stop when you're done with it?
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[ i ] starts italics, [ / i ] stops the italics (with the spaces removed)
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My amp has left and has probably moved across Montana towards MN by now!!! Yippee! I'm very excited.
i also will be ordering my new speaker kit this week. Don't know how I talked my wife into that, but she is getting to choose yet another Disney vacation. Not that they aren't fun. But I digress....
The bulk of the work the stereomour is going to do will be run the coax drivers. I want to say they are crossed over to the sub amp at 200hz. Will it be worth putting a high pass filter in the line to take the 200hz and below out of the mix even if the coax aren't going to run it? I know the bottlehead can take it, I just hear things about making the amp load even easier. Would it matter?
Thanks,
Ben
PS CAN'T WAIT!
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The bulk of the work the stereomour is going to do will be run the coax drivers. I want to say they are crossed over to the sub amp at 200hz. Will it be worth putting a high pass filter in the line to take the 200hz and below out of the mix even if the coax aren't going to run it? I know the bottlehead can take it, I just hear things about making the amp load even easier. Would it matter?
Is the sub amp taking the speaker level inputs, or will you wire a line level out from the Stereomour?
The Stereomour has two easy places to implement a high pass filter - in the 0.1uF coupling cap, and the parallel feed cap.
Paul Joppa generally recommends downsizing the parallel feed cap, and I think he prefers this because doing so can drop the physical size and cost of the cap (so you can use a nicer part) and it will kick out some of the 60Hz hum from the DHT filament. (I haven't asked PJ about this specifically, these are my assumptions).
I don't see why you couldn't also lower the value of the 0.1uF coupling cap (or lower the value of the 249K grid leak resistor) in accordance with shrinking the parallel feed capacitors for an even steeper rolloff (if you want it).
Still, I'd build it bone stock first, then mess around with these things.
-PB
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I must have mis-communicated - for crossovers, I prefer to put the filter as early in the chain as possible.
Putting it at the amp input means an additional capacitor, so that's a tradeoff.
Putting it between the driver and output (the 0.1uF coupling cap) relieves the power tube of bass duties, but does not relieve the driver. The driver (in my designs anyhow) has some headroom, but not a lot. For crossovers below 100Hz it's not unreasonable.
I'd only put a small cap in the parafeed position if it is necessary to protect the HF driver - I've done that in the Bottlehead Big System for the ribbon tweeter. But we have recently moved from the SR45 to a Paramount 300B to good effect, because there is not enough protection for the driver and power tubes with the cap there. I'd prefer to put another highpass filter before the amp, but at the moment that seems to be too much filtering for the crossover integration to work well.
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Merry Christmas to me!!! Just unpacked my stereomour kit. OMG I can't wait. I also ordered the top half of my GR Research Super V kit today.
I will have caps to use as a high pass filter, and will need to look into how to implement that. I am going to look at the manual and start salivating.
Packed wonderfully! Thanks Doc B and Queen Eileen.
Ben Young
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Hey Ben - Just curious, do you get some mints with the Stereomour? I thought that was a nice touch!
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I will need to look again, if they were there, i missed the chocolates.
Confession time. I knew the dangers or voltage before ordering, but the ample warnings in the manual have since made me nervous. Im still going forward but good job on the attention to safety. Also, the detail and specifics in the manual are awesome. Wonderfully done and simple. First i am going to sand and paint he bells. More soon.
Ben
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Hello everyone. It has been very cold here in Minnesota the last week. No work whatsoever out in the garage:(
I was reading speaker wire posts recently and read about some speakers/amps that don't sound good with braided cables. About a month ago I bought some Kimber Kable 4PR. It is their cheap braided bulk cable. I read it will be better than my monster cable stuff I have. Anyway, any experience with braided cables and Stereomour I should be concerned about? I did some searches and found some placement issues concerning power sources but didn't find any about the amp and cable being problematic together.
Thanks, and hope everyone up north here is staying warm!!
Ben
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Hey Ben - IMO Kimber makes good sounding wire. It will be better than anything Monster makes. In general, wire can be very tricky. Its hard to generalize. You have to experiment. I would try various low cost trusted names and see what sounds best in your system. Most of the high end companies seem to have a certain 'house sound'. I have been happy with the sound of JPS Labs wire. Put them on your short list. - cheers - Eric
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I'm with Eric, I have both Kimber speaker and interconnects. The Bottlehead power cord is twisted and braided. It improved the clarity in my system. My Paramours are mono versions of the Stereomour.
As I read recently on the internet, Abe Lincoln said, "Don't believe everything you read on the internet."
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Please do post a link to the braided vs. unbraided info for speaker cables, I'd be interested to read up a bit.
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If you are looking to experiment with solid core big gauge speaker cable for a good price, ck Audio Advisor, they run specials on their AudioQuest stuff. I have a pair of 'Granite' cables that I have used for over 10yrs, that were only recently replaced by my JPS Labs wire. Very good sounding wire, in fact, at first I was not sure the JPS Labs were an upgrade, but once they broke in, then I was happy with the switch.
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Hi everyone. I have most of what I need to start my stereomour build, maybe a different soldering iron unless practice starts to pay off!!
Can you builders with experience explain why a Fluke multimeter is really the way to go? I totally understand it really works better, or more consistently, and more accurately, but I am grappling with the added higher expense. Sure $80 isn't really that much more than the $30 ones, but it makes a difference in my "family" budget. If it is silly to buy anything less than the recommended tools?
Has anyone built a kit with a cheapo meter and have advice for me?
Thanks,
Ben
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Ben,
You can buy a cheap meter for $6-10. It will give reasonable readings measuring everything except the ones in the manual marked with a *. Those are hard to determine if they are right. Look in Grainger's Corner and read the question about meters in the FAQ Thread (http://bottlehead.com/smf/index.php/topic,2408.0.html) at the top. I try to explain the results of meter readings there. The days of getting a reasonable priced meter from Radio Shack passed a decade or two ago.
If you find this is a hobby you will continue with a better meter is in order. We have a few doctors here, one said that doctors don't use cheap stethoscopes. The meter is the second most important tool in kit building. The soldering iron is the most important.
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I really am not the kind of guy to question why the right tool has to work right. I guess i was just hoping to hear that it may take some extra time. Hahaha. If it was only so simple!
I think i need to really rethink those two important tools.
My first soldering iron, (grainger already helped me through this) was a five dollar thirty watt from menards. Wouldnt heat up enough and i wasnt good enough at soldering to make it work with the big crossover connections and binding posts in the gr research monitors i first built. Went out and got a weller 100/140 watt gun and that worked wonderfully. Now with computer boards and very fine intricate work i planned to try the cheap pencil iron with a conical tip i think.
I think i need to bite the bullet and not wimp out on the right meter and iron.
Thanks so much Grainger and all for your help and advice.
Ben
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The cheap meters can give off readings for both voltage and resistance. The * resistance readings are charging a capacitor and might not reach the high readings they call for in the manual. The zero readings will always be off by the resistance of the meter leads. So if the meter leads measure 0.3 ohms and you are looking for a grounded point you might get 0.7 ohms. In this case so will a Fluke.
All that is covered in the FAQ Thread (http://bottlehead.com/smf/index.php/topic,2408.0.html) I linked.
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I imagine you already bought some but I just got some Kimber 4tc and am very pleased with the purchase. I have tried a lot of the less expensive solutions and just swapped out Anti-cable's Magnet wire (with a loose twist). The Kimber is a nice change. You can buy the 4tc bulk and terminate it yourself to save money - recommend the Cable Company.
drew.
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Hi all! Buying my soldering station tonight and I'm going to (hopefully) start piecing together my Stereomour! YAY!
Am I correct that there are no differences, as far as construction is concerned, for using this as a power amp vs. integrated? I will always use a receiver to feed it. I know there are guidelines for start up order, and where to keep the volume, etc. but I'm not sure what they are yet.
I have a pair of sonicap platinum caps to eventually put in line somewhere, that will be used as a high pass filter for the tops of my gr research speakers which are in the works, but I know the stock build is the place to start.
Wish me luck, I'm goin' in!
Ben
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Ben,
Good luck but if you follow the manual carefully you don't need it.
It depends where on the receiver you are coming from as to what you do. If the recording outputs then you use the volume control as you would with a CD player. If from the "pre-out" then you could leave the Stereomour volume wide open. But I expect that will not give you the lowest noise. I would go with the recording outputs using the Stereomour volume control.
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Grainger, I hadn't even thought about using the recording outputs. Here is where I am a total noob. The signals into my receiver are digital coax, and optical. So I am going to have an issue when all is said and done. I don't think my receiver converts digital audio to analog. For the mean time, I will be living with this receiver which has no proper preouts. So I was going to try to go additional analog into the receiver that way the zone 2 would be my preout for the stereomour. Another story, but I found out my cable box doesn't have analog out:( Ick. SO, my integration of a nice two channel system into my existing home theater is not going to be ideal.
Why does this have to be so confusing????
CD/DVD to rec. is digital coax.
TV to rec. is optical.
XBOX, (mainly for netflix streaming) is to rec. is optical.
I wonder if I can go to stereomour with analog from DVD.
Skip tv since the receiver has a center.......
TO stereomour with analog from XBOX.
hmmmmmmmm.
I need a piece of paper, pencil, about 5 hours, a new receiver, and a big coors light with green olives. Then I'm good to go.
ben
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If your receiver doesn't do a D/A internally to the REC output you are going to have a problem. You have to use something to convert those signals to an analog output or you can't feed the Stereomour.
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Yeah i know there will have to be all analog in to get it out. But I'm going to need some thought according to what I actually do hook up.
What a mess.
ben
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Your CD/DVD player may have analog (RCA) outputs. That would work with the Stereomour's volume control...John
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I think i will do that, John. It will have to be 1 stereomour input using dvd/cd. I will figure something out for tv and xbox.
Thanks everyone.
Ben
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So...who is sick of me yet????
:-[
Well, I'm shuffling my feet to begin the grit of my build because I don't have a meter yet. I see on Ebay a used Fluke Model 83 for $90. I also see models 15B and the often recommended 87.
We all want a good deal, but I'm just confused when it comes to functions. If it reads volts, and millivolts, does that ensure it will do everything I need to check resistances and voltages on a bottlehead kit?
I see posts of people who have purchased a 115, a 117 and 87's etc. But I don't see any of those in my price range.
If I can order one this weekend, I'll be glad.
The "*" readings in the manual make sense to me, I just need to be confident that most fluke meters will read the high resistances I need.
Thanks for being patient with me.
Ben
I'm pretty sure I am making this more difficult than it needs to be. I apologize for that. Out of my comfort zone, I guess.
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If you are looking for a good dmm at a budget price, this article speaks very favorable of the Mastech MS8268 available at amazon for $38.50. I looked at the specs and it should do everything you need.
best multimeter reviews - http://www.bestcovery.com/best-multimeter-overall
Mastech MS8268 manual - http://www.histest.com/blog/files/2012/02/Mastech-MS8268-Digital-Multimeter-Users-Manual.pdf
Amazon link - http://www.amazon.com/Mastech-MS8268-Digital-Manual-Multimeter/dp/B0050LVFS0/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1364490225&sr=1-1&keywords=Mastech+MS8268
Hope this helps.
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Some Flukes are notorious for the display panel getting flaky with time. I have one myself. With a really fresh battery it works pretty well. As soon as the battery starts to fade a little the display gets really flaky and you have to press on it a bit for the worn contact areas to conduct.
When it comes to buying older high end test gear, caveat emptor. If it works it's great, if it doesn't, it's not really making the job easier. We have had a love/hate relationship with my old Tek scope, which falls into this category. It's been pretty much completely recapped, and about 85% of the time it's really nice to use. The other 15% is not much fun.
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yes, you're making it harder on yourself. Flukes are great but for $20-40 you can a lot of very good meters that will do as good a job. Here is one from sears on sale for $20. You can go to the store and look at it. Lets see if it can figure out how to copy a link on this new iPad, if not I am sure you can find it ...John
http://www.sears.com/craftsman-multimeter-digital-with-8-functions-and-20/p-03482141000P?prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=G1
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I have two or three varieties of Radio Shack mid-range meters that I use all the time. My fancy Fluke is great for a few things, but overkill for kit-building - I don't use it that often, actually.
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The only feature on a DMM that is quite nice is auto-ranging. I think $10 extra is worth spending for a meter with auto-ranging.
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If you are looking for a good dmm at a budget price, this article speaks very favorable of the Mastech MS8268 available at amazon for $38.50. I looked at the specs and it should do everything you need.
best multimeter reviews - http://www.bestcovery.com/best-multimeter-overall
Mastech MS8268 manual - http://www.histest.com/blog/files/2012/02/Mastech-MS8268-Digital-Multimeter-Users-Manual.pdf
Amazon link - http://www.amazon.com/Mastech-MS8268-Digital-Manual-Multimeter/dp/B0050LVFS0/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1364490225&sr=1-1&keywords=Mastech+MS8268
Hope this helps.
Thanks for the tip Randy. I just ordered one as my old meter just broke. I am glad this meter uses 3 aaa batteries. My old meter used a D battery and didn't have extended battery connection leads so it was difficult to replace the battery.
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Hi everyone. I am going to whipe the bell and choke covers with acetone, sand with 320 paper, and prime and mask then paint. Can i just buy any primer and semi gloss or gloss spraypaint or is the heat an issue? I looked at several builds where people have done similat things i just need product suggestions. If there isnt any issues im going to just go this route. I want a black look and will probably paint the base black too.
Thanks, Ben
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Hi Ben,
Most of the standard spray paints are good to about 160 degrees F -- probably ok, but to play it safe, I generally use the rustoleum Ultra high heat spray for gas grilles -- comes in flat and semi gloss black. and with the 1000 degree rating, they are totally worry free.
HTH,
Jim
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Hi everybody. I attached the rectifiers and capacitors etc. to the power supply board last night. I haven't soldered anything yet. I was practicing with my weller 40 watt soldering iron. It says it heats up to 900 degrees. A bit high for the recommended setting. But anyway, before I do start, I have a very pointy conical pencil tip and a chisel tip. I was going to use the pencil tip and wanted to double check what other people do.
I read that some kit builders suggest the conical tip, but mine is different than I envisioned it looking like.
Also, I am aware of the timing and technic of soldering, not too long, etc. but I was wondering if I will know if I stay on too long? I read about a carbon resistor frying on a recent post and that seems obvious, but are the damages always obvious? Anyway, I know caution is important, and am practicing on stranded wire (which takes a long time to heat).
Trying to find something to practice that will simulate pc board + lead joint soldering.
Thanks for listening.
Ben
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I'm afraid I come across quite paranoied. :-\
Side note-I tested all the resistors. If I made a good connection with the leads and didn't move them, they all settled right around the labeled amount. And after actually assembling some, I wanted to take it apart and do it again. So much fun, and the manual is extremely easy to follow and well written.
Thanks again.
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You're thinking about it too much. :)
The best thing you can do is practice with it. Buy some cheap resistors and caps and some terminal strips, maybe a plain bread board from radio shack and practice.
Here's a video to help with technique.
http://youtu.be/cIDydYIVTqU
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The chisel tip will work well for all of the building except the smaller green PC board, and probably wiring to the 9-pin sockets. In those areas, the pointier tip will work nicely.
I wouldn't recommend pulling parts off the boards, they can be a bit fussy when being reworked.