Bottlehead Forum
Bottlehead Kits => Crack => Topic started by: networkn on January 02, 2013, 12:08:17 AM
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Hi There!
I have some minor variance in the results, that I wanted to check please, before I head to voltage checking (Gulp!).
6) Says should be 2.4 K and is 2.5 K
7) Says should be 2.9 Kand is 2.944 K
9) Says should be 2.9 K and is 2.44 K
10) Says should be 2.4 K and is 2.5 K
13) Starts at 14 M counts slowly down then jumps to 50 K and climbs slowly UP????
B3) Says should be 2.9 K and is 2.944 K
B6) Says should be 2.9 K and is 2.44 K (I am wondering if this is a mistake in the manual and it should say should be 2.4 K) ? If it's really supposed to be 2.9 K Should I just resolder that joint?
Also I need to ask a particularly dumb question, how do I know whether the volume is all the way up or down?
Many thanks in advance.
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Hello Networkn,
Welcome to the forum!
Your resistance readings are all pretty close to the indicated values, so I wouldn't be concerned there. When looking at resistances, we are mostly concerned about not seeing zeroes where they aren't supposed to be (this would be a short).
A 2.5K vs. 2.4K reading is just meter to meter variation, I think when we got 2.4K we had a meter that would give many digits, and it was something around 2.49K in actuality.
The reading at 13 is erratic because of interactions with the capacitor, if you left your meter attached to this point for long enough, I bet it would slowly climb to 270K (though it's hard to say for how long, as different meters will charge up that cap at different rates).
With the chassis plate facing up, turn the volume knob all the way counter clockwise to turn the volume all the way down.
I think you're ready to move on to voltage checks.
-PB
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Hello Networkn,
Welcome to the forum!
Your resistance readings are all pretty close to the indicated values, so I wouldn't be concerned there. When looking at resistances, we are mostly concerned about not seeing zeroes where they aren't supposed to be (this would be a short).
A 2.5K vs. 2.4K reading is just meter to meter variation, I think when we got 2.4K we had a meter that would give many digits, and it was something around 2.49K in actuality.
The reading at 13 is erratic because of interactions with the capacitor, if you left your meter attached to this point for long enough, I bet it would slowly climb to 270K (though it's hard to say for how long, as different meters will charge up that cap at different rates).
With the chassis plate facing up, turn the volume knob all the way counter clockwise to turn the volume all the way down.
I think you're ready to move on to voltage checks.
-PB
Hi There!
So I have some follow up questions:
1) In the photo I have linked, is this volume down? (https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs8.postimage.org%2Flfhuc5e75%2F20130104_213429.jpg&hash=9fd3fe1057b56ad8645e56e57a5703e4ef28a498) (http://postimage.org/image/lfhuc5e75/)
2) How are you guys securing your rigs for the voltage checks? I can't find a stable way to do this? If I need to have in both of the tubes which are quite high, I can't rest it on the wood base (Which I haven't yet assembled) and I don't have a vice or anything.
3) I don't understand the instructions 5 and 6 on page 38. If I use the negative probe clip to connect to terminal 12, how can I connect the same lead to the ground buss?
4) How do I know which of my DMM settings is the 400V+ one? I have a V symbol which has a line and 3 dotted lines underneath and a V with a squigly line?
5) When it's on, is it safe to touch the bell metal top part of the transformer?
Sorry for the dumb questions, I thought it safer to check than risk getting it wrong, and me killed.
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1) In the photo I have linked, is this volume down? (https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs8.postimage.org%2Flfhuc5e75%2F20130104_213429.jpg&hash=9fd3fe1057b56ad8645e56e57a5703e4ef28a498) (http://postimage.org/image/lfhuc5e75/)
2) How are you guys securing your rigs for the voltage checks? I can't find a stable way to do this? If I need to have in both of the tubes which are quite high, I can't rest it on the wood base (Which I haven't yet assembled) and I don't have a vice or anything.
3) I don't understand the instructions 5 and 6 on page 38. If I use the negative probe clip to connect to terminal 12, how can I connect the same lead to the ground buss?
4) How do I know which of my DMM settings is the 400V+ one? I have a V symbol which has a line and 3 dotted lines underneath and a V with a squigly line?
5) When it's on, is it safe to touch the bell metal top part of the transformer?
Sorry for the dumb questions, I thought it safer to check than risk getting it wrong, and me killed.
A photo of a knob can't determine if the pot is all the way down, you can loosen the screw and the knob can spin freely, so there is no way to know. With the knob secured, turn it all the way counterclockwise, then the volume will be all the way down.
For voltage checks, having the base handy is nice. You can use some wide blue painters' tape to hold it together temporarily, then flip the Crack over and place it in the base (the 6080 will be a little too tall, but not so much that it's a problem.
Your meter has two leads, clip the black one to the ground buss, take measurements with the red lead. Terminal 12 is part of the ground buss, so that is what is recommended in the manual. The suggestion in the manual is to use a test lead with alligator clips to make a more permanent connection between the black lead and terminal 12 (or the ground buss).
The V with the squiggly line is AC volts, the V with the solid and dashed lines is DC voltage. If your meter has multiple ranges, you might see 2, 20, 200 as options, for the Crack, you'd want 200. If your meter just has DC and 400 - then it is autoranging and you can leave it set there.
When the amp is on, the metal plate and transformer cover are connected to safety ground, so any shorts that would dump anything dangerous onto those parts will cause the fuse to blow, protecting you.
Here's kind of a sketchy video of how to use a meter http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ftc3EQGZowk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ftc3EQGZowk)
Feel free to write back if you have any additional questions, these are some important basics that can transfer to other facets of life.
-PB
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Hi There!
Ok Here are my voltage check results. Something seems a little off :)
I will post the recommended amount and actual after it.
1) 90 | 77.2
2) 170 | 144
3) 0 | 0.1
4) 170 | 144
5) 90 | 77
6) Wildly going all over the place around 30-60
7) 100 | 94.6
8) 0 | 1
9) 100 | 75
10) 0 | 90.1
11) 0 | 1.1
12) 0 | 0
13) 170 | 144
14) 0 | 0
15) 185 | 171
20) 0 | 0
21) 206 | 200
a1) 90 | 75.9
a2) 0 | 0
a3) 1.5 | 1.5
a4) 0 | 0
a5) 0 | 0
a6) 90 | 77
A7) 0 | 0
a8) 1.5 | 1.5
a9) 0 | 0
b1) 90 | 76
b2) 170 | 140
b3) 100 | 95
b4) 90 | 76
b5) 170 | 144
b6) 100 | 90
b7) 0 | 0
b8) 0 | 0
I guess the two I am most concerned about is 10 which is 90v over spec and 6
It does smell hot. I was concerned at first that it was something burning, but I could see no smoke per se. I am not sure if that's normal as the tubes heat for the first time or not.
Where should I start looking for causes?
Thanks once again.
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http://s13.postimage.org/jou9kl1uv/20130107_223037.jpg (http://s13.postimage.org/jou9kl1uv/20130107_223037.jpg)
This what those two terminals primarily connect to. I am wondering if one of those resistors partially fried as they should look the same and one looks burned a little. The bottom one is giving 2.49KOhm Resistance Check, the other 2.20Kohm
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Yes, don't plug headphones into this Crack until 10/6 are under control.
As the 6080 begins to conduct, charge accumulates on the positive side of each of those 160uF capacitors, and current is drawn through the 2.49K resistors to charge these caps.
Current is not drawing through the 2.49K resistors, as you have ~90V sitting there waiting to be drawn down.
This could happen if the black wire going to your headphone jack is not properly tied into your ground buss. The wiring on your jack looks OK to me, though that brown resistor makes me wonder about the 160uF caps, can you post a pic of the build in its entirety?
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Thanks for the reply...
(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs9.postimage.org%2Fgrqxmfb0f%2F20130108_085046.jpg&hash=24cfb502f7d53a5fae000fcbead4e1396077fc46) (http://postimage.org/)
upload pics (http://postimage.org/)
(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs8.postimage.org%2Fbf9cjaov9%2F20130108_085025.jpg&hash=7b18546b694ce68e36c532212aa6df874fd51eca) (http://postimage.org/)
photo sharing sites (http://postimage.org/)
Are you talking about the black wire that runs between the Pot and the HP Jack? Should be pretty straightforward to resolder, but if it wasn't connected would the resistance readings have been off?
If I resolder do I need to redo the resistance checks ?
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Ignore this if you have already done it. Measure the resistance of each of the resistors on the headphone jack. If one is burned it will be wrong. That channel did something to molest the resistor.
As mentioned above the last thing back in the circuit is the electrolytic output cap that is supposed to protect the resistor from DC. If that is bad, often but not always, a bad cap will have an end that bulges. Those are the black caps on the B tube socket.
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Ignore this if you have already done it. Measure the resistance of each of the resistors on the headphone jack. If one is burned it will be wrong. That channel did something to molest the resistor.
As mentioned above the last thing back in the circuit is the electrolytic output cap that is supposed to protect the resistor from DC. If that is bad, often but not always, a bad cap will have an end that bulges. Those are the black caps on the B tube socket.
Hi There!
The resistor that goes from top left bottom right on the headphone jack is reading 2.20 as opposed to 2.49 as the other one measures. I'll try and get a better shot of it, but it looks not quite right. It definately looked identical when I soldered it, has it fried? If so is there something wrong early in the circuit or did I cook it when I soldered it?
(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs2.postimage.org%2Friflxu2i1%2F20130108_111041.jpg&hash=83e7e36b9bc9398448e86c6531fb09d95d20754f) (http://postimage.org/)
host images (http://postimage.org/)
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Check that both of those are thousands of ohms. The resistors are 2.49k ohms. If one went bad and reads 2.2 ohms that is a problem. But if it is just 2.2k ohms it won't make a difference.
Then look at the capacitors.
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Check that both of those are thousands of ohms. The resistors are 2.49k ohms. If one went bad and reads 2.2 ohms that is a problem. But if it is just 2.2k ohms it won't make a difference.
Then look at the capacitors.
Hi There!
Both are Definitely K-Ohms. I know before I switched it on to voltage, both read 2.49KOhms exactly, and notice it's looking burned, I presume that isn't normal. I can't see any bulging of the caps.
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Can you check to which terminals the pair of red and white wires attach that run to the headphone jack? If those are miswired, you'd pass DC to the jack and heat up those resistors in a hurry.
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Can you check to which terminals the pair of red and white wires attach that run to the headphone jack? If those are miswired, you'd pass DC to the jack and heat up those resistors in a hurry.
Looking at the Jack with the pins facing you
White Cable Top Left to 10L (With a 249Kohm (Discoloured) Resistor connected to the Bottom Right.)
Red Cable Middle Left to 6L (With a 249Kohm (Normal looking) Resistor connect to the bottom right )
They seem very secure and well soldered.
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How about the wires that leave B3/B6?
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How about the wires that leave B3/B6?
:D Oops, B6 connected to 10U not 9U as it's supposed to be. I feel pretty stupid now.
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Good stuff, remeasure 6 and 10 after the correction and let us know if the voltages settle.
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:D Oops, B6 connected to 10U not 9U as it's supposed to be. I feel pretty stupid now.
Nope, not at all. Everyone makes mistakes. My philosophy is don't make a mistake, never learn s**t. And I have the track record (and enough metal parts in my body - somewhere around 20 or 21 not counting fillings and crowns) to prove that I practice what I preach! The only people who should feel stupid are the ones who have a problem with their kit assembly and don't ask for some support here. Congrats on sorting it out!
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:D Oops, B6 connected to 10U not 9U as it's supposed to be. I feel pretty stupid now.
Nope, not at all. Everyone makes mistakes. My philosophy is don't make a mistake, never learn s**t. And I have the track record (and enough metal parts in my body - somewhere around 20 or 21 not counting fillings and crowns) to prove that I practice what I preach! The only people who should feel stupid are the ones who have a problem with their kit assembly and don't ask for some support here. Congrats on sorting it out!
Thanks. Well everything was going swimmingly, the resistance checks were much closer to what I expected and I was all the way to A8 and that wasn't right, then I noticed there was no light from that LED (Connected to A8).
I think I must have shorted it accidentally perhaps?
6 and 10 are still giving me (identical) unexpected results. They should be Zero and they are ranging constantly between 30-40V by the looks.
Looking around I see a few people talking about accidentally shorting the A8 LED is that likely? Is there a way to test?
Not sure if I can source that locally, confirming this is the model number? HLMP-6000
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If the LED on A8 isn't lighting up, how is the voltage at terminal 1? (It should be high)
Eileen can send you a replacement HLMP-6000 if you burned one, they tend not to short.
-PB
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If the LED on A8 isn't lighting up, how is the voltage at terminal 1? (It should be high)
Eileen can send you a replacement HLMP-6000 if you burned one, they tend not to short.
-PB
Yup Terminal 1 is now at 140v not the 90 it was earlier in my tests.
I'll see if I can source one locally.
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If your meter has a diode checker, you can check the LED. Sometimes the striped end doesn't solder all that well on the center lug of the 9 pin socket.
You won't find the HLMP-6000 in most hobby electronic stores, it is kind of an unusual LED.
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If your meter has a diode checker, you can check the LED. Sometimes the striped end doesn't solder all that well on the center lug of the 9 pin socket.
You won't find the HLMP-6000 in most hobby electronic stores, it is kind of an unusual LED.
Hmm pity! Is there a substitute I could consider that might be more easily sourced without the delay of shipping replacements from the US to NZ?
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If your meter has a diode checker, you can check the LED. Sometimes the striped end doesn't solder all that well on the center lug of the 9 pin socket.
You won't find the HLMP-6000 in most hobby electronic stores, it is kind of an unusual LED.
Hmm pity! Is there a substitute I could consider that might be more easily sourced without the delay of shipping replacements from the US to NZ?
Perhaps for an extra cost BH could sell a $10 kit that contains spares and recommend it to international buyers at the time of their initial purchase, of the most commonly damaged or faulty components (I broke this I believe so I am not suggesting otherwise).
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Perhaps for an extra cost BH could sell a $10 kit that contains spares and recommend it to international buyers at the time of their initial purchase, of the most commonly damaged or faulty components (I broke this I believe so I am not suggesting otherwise).
We think offering free replacements works a little better, most of the time these things hold up pretty well.
A 475 ohm 1/8 watt resistor will work in place of the HLMP-6000 in the Crack circuit. (470 Ohm is OK too)
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Perhaps for an extra cost BH could sell a $10 kit that contains spares and recommend it to international buyers at the time of their initial purchase, of the most commonly damaged or faulty components (I broke this I believe so I am not suggesting otherwise).
We think offering free replacements works a little better, most of the time these things hold up pretty well.
A 475 ohm 1/8 watt resistor will work in place of the HLMP-6000 in the Crack circuit. (470 Ohm is OK too)
Ok what about this?
http://newzealand.rs-online.com/web/p/visible-leds/1934746/
It was suggested by an electronics savvy friend of mine as a possible replacement. LED would suit me better than a resistor as it's nice to be able to see if it's actually working.
Also I can find locally a 470ohm 1/4 watt I presume that isn't close enough?
Also a diode stops current flowing the wrong way too I presume, is that a concern with a resistor in place?
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The HLMP-6000 is about the last "standard red" LED still in production. Modern red LEDs are brighter and not as deep a red, both of which cause it to drop (slightly) more voltage. You can certainly try another red LED - see if you can find one that is NOT "high-intensity". Monitor the terminal 1 voltage; if it's not too high then what you have will work. Even if it's a bit out of spec, it will work while the replacement wends its way across the ocean ...
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Well I have a resistor I'll solder tonight and hope like crazy that's the last of the issues.
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Well I have a resistor I'll solder tonight and hope like crazy that's the last of the issues.
Hi There!
I have posted my final voltage checks, I am really only wanting to check that 6 and 10 are ok being variable between 15-40mV
1) 90 | 84
2) 170 | 161
3) 0 | 0
4) 170 | 160
5) 90 | 82
6) Wildly going all over the place around 14-40MV
7) 100 | 103.9
0 | 0
9) 100 | 103.9
10) 0 | 14-40MV
11) 0 | 0
12) 0 | 0
13) 170 | 160
14) 0 | 0
15) 185 | 182
20) 0 | 0
21) 206 | 204
a1) 90 | 80
a2) 0 | 0
a3) 1.5 | 1.5
a4) 0 | 0
a5) 0 | 0
a6) 90 | 84
A7) 0 | 0
a8) 1.5 | 1.6
a9) 0 | 0
b1) 90 | 84
b2) 170 | 160
b3) 100 | 104
b4) 90 | 81
b5) 170 | 160
b6) 100 | 104
b7) 0 | 0
b8) 0 | 0
Thanks for all your help.
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You're good to go.
14-40mV is 0.014-0.040V, which is nice and low.
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You're good to go.
14-40mV is 0.014-0.040V, which is nice and low.
Excellent thanks. Kicking myself as there were LED's in the Speedball kit I could have used instead of a resistor until my replacement arrives, however....
I do have a spare 10W10OhmJ Cement Resistor but I can't find any reference to it in the instructions nor parts list unless I am missing something?
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That must have snuck in the bag on accident, it is not used in the kit.
-PB
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Hmm well I was very excited to have my first chance to listen today, after nearly 10 days since I completely finished!
Unfortunately something is very not right.
I can only hear from my left channel with my HD650's and there is a horrible buzz in that ear.
Also it appears that my volume was around the wrong way so my measurements were all taken with the device at full tilt, not sure if that should be of concern?
Not even sure where to start looking at this stage. I must admit I thought that when all the voltages were correct and resistance, that meant it was ready!
I am connecting from my PC via USB to an ODAC to the Crack via a 3.5mm to red and white rca and my HD650s are into the 6.5mm jack.
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Ok well the plot thickens....
With the headphone fully inserted into the jack I can only hear one channel, and it sounds HORRIBLE, pull it out a little I can hear both channels but they aren't anywhere near as good as I imagined, something isn't right I am sure.
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If you pull the plug out slightly, you sum the channels and present the headphones with a mono signal.
Not having signal in one channel will likely present incorrect voltages, I'd remeasure and double check.
Otherwise, it's a missed solder joint, or a cooked headphone jack.
You can always post pics too, sometimes a miswire is easily spotted.
-PB
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Hi There!
Startingly this weekend I have finally managed to get back to my crack. I have replied in this thread for historical reference, but if people prefer I can start a new thread.
I haven't touched it since MY last reply, but today I have powered it up to test it again and it's pretty much working fine, EXCEPT now there is a whine in the right hand cup of both my HE-500 and the HD-650's. It's not affected by the following:
1) Removing the Inputs from my DAC, or moving the cables around (twirling them in place)
2) Adjusting Volume.
It's relatively minor, but annoying nonetheless, there is also slight hiss, but I am not certain it's not the source. What is interesting is, that it's not always present.
Where do I start with troubleshooting the whine?
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Hi There!
Startingly this weekend I have finally managed to get back to my crack. I have replied in this thread for historical reference, but if people prefer I can start a new thread.
I haven't touched it since MY last reply, but today I have powered it up to test it again and it's pretty much working fine, EXCEPT now there is a whine in the right hand cup of both my HE-500 and the HD-650's. It's not affected by the following:
1) Removing the Inputs from my DAC, or moving the cables around (twirling them in place)
2) Adjusting Volume.
It's relatively minor, but annoying nonetheless, there is also slight hiss, but I am not certain it's not the source. What is interesting is, that it's not always present.
Where do I start with troubleshooting the whine?
Interesting. Turned off the Amp and back on again, the HE-500's are fine. Unplugged the He-500 for the HD650's and now instead of a Whine both sides have a significant buzz. Can you not switch headphones like that?
Does it help locate the issue?
Also I am not sure if this is normal but the big Tube is HOT. The metal plate is warmish. My Infrared thermometer says it's 202 degrees Celcius (400F) which seems very hot. The little one shows at 66c (150F).
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Interesting. Turned off the Amp and back on again, the HE-500's are fine. Unplugged the He-500 for the HD650's and now instead of a Whine both sides have a significant buzz. Can you not switch headphones like that?
Does it help locate the issue?
Also I am not sure if this is normal but the big Tube is HOT. The metal plate is warmish. My Infrared thermometer says it's 202 degrees Celcius (400F) which seems very hot. The little one shows at 66c (150F).
This sure sounds like a loose connection or a bad solder joint that gets jostled around when you plug/unplug headphones.
Tubes do get hot. If the metal plates on the inside glow red/orange hot, then there's an issue, but otherwise not.