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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Natural Sound on February 18, 2013, 11:42:01 AM

Title: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: Natural Sound on February 18, 2013, 11:42:01 AM
Fist off I'm going on 52 years young and in excellent health. But I have on occasion abused my hearing. Most of this occurred when I was a lot younger and living in NY. There was never a shortage of music venues when I was in my late teens and early twenties. Hanging out with friends and listening to loud music, mostly rock, was the norm.

My hearing is still very good despite the abuses I've put on my auditory system over the years. When I got into my thirties I backed WAY off the volume control. I want to preserve my hearing as best as possible so that I can enjoy music well into my golden years.

Lately I've been wondering what kind of sound pressure levels I have been subjecting my ears to. Then it dawned on me. I have a sound level meter in the closet. Its not the best instrument in the world but it should give me a good idea. It turned out that the dB levels were lower than I expected, which is good.

The meter I'm using is an el cheapo RadioShack 33-2050. I bought it to balance out my 5.1 home theater system. When used with a calibration disc it works pretty well.

I know there are a lot of ways to measure this but I decided to keep it simple. I set the meter response switch to slow and the weighting is set to C so that I measure across the complete frequency range. Then I simply place the meter near my
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: Doc B. on February 18, 2013, 11:51:02 AM
FWIW a favorite "standard" level used when making comparisons in the studio averages around 82dB.
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: Jim R. on February 18, 2013, 11:59:42 AM
Tom,

I'm only a couple years older than you and your measurments come out to be the same as mine -- I consider 85 dB at the listening chair to be quite loud, and I too am always, or at least used to be, a bit surprised by how low the levels typically are when measured.  I was also able to verify this once with a real pro SPL meter and the differences were negligible.  I find I like listening at for lack of a better term, a "correct" level in which all sounds feel in proper proportion to me -- where I can hear everything but nothing is over or underdone.

Man are you going to love your Orcas :-).

-- Jim
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: 4krow on February 18, 2013, 12:14:47 PM
Hmmm thought I was the only one who didn't need the loudness that I used to. I use ear plugs more than most people, yet my hearing is not exceptional anymore.
   I remember taking an SPL meter to the airport to measure sound levels during a flight. Yah I was REAL popular at the security check. Almost made me late for my flight.
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: jimiclow on February 18, 2013, 12:43:59 PM
I have a free iphone app (Ultimate ears SPL) and I think it's pretty accurate. It can measure A or C weighing. The inside of the plane IIRC measured around 90+. I always bring my Ety ER4 on long flights.
Anyway, at my listening area, I get around 80-85db coming from 1.5WPC Stereomour.
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: Paul Joppa on February 18, 2013, 01:15:08 PM
For what it's worth, a sound level meter (like studio VU meters) measures a short-term average, a few hundred milliseconds. The instantaneous peaks on well-recorded analog live music are normally taken to be 14dB louder; a few audiophile recordings can get to 20dB. (The lowest grade of commercial pop music is so compressed, the peaks may be less than a dB louder).
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: Grainger49 on February 18, 2013, 02:37:02 PM
My meter says I listen in the mid 60dBA range peaking to the low 70s.  It is a nice comfortable listening range for me.
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: Doc B. on February 18, 2013, 03:51:28 PM
Man, that's background music levels around here.
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: xcortes on February 18, 2013, 03:58:25 PM
Hey Grainger,

Maybe your spl meter needs new batteries!

Saludos
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: 2wo on February 18, 2013, 04:07:06 PM
A quick and dirty check is mid 80s...John
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: earwaxxer on February 18, 2013, 04:09:34 PM
I have found that not all sound is good sound for the ears, even at a given sound pressure. Distortion is the key. Even moderate levels are fatiguing if the sound is crap. If the tweeter/amp etc. is straining then your hearing is getting destroyed. There is, of course, the consequences of hearing damage at high sound pressures, no matter the 'quality'. At this point in my life, I want to enjoy my hobbie, if that means some hearing loss, so be it. I use my cost benefit algorithm in my head to determine the 'right' volume at a given time/song etc. I'm not too vain to get a hearing aid in the future if i need one.
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: Grainger49 on February 19, 2013, 12:29:05 AM
Man, that's background music levels around here.

Are you listening to Bluegrass?  An acoustic guitar, mandolin, banjo and bass should be only so loud.

I'll put on Chicago later and make a check.  I'm headed out to Habitat in a few minutes.
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: bainjs on February 19, 2013, 06:07:00 AM
I've been to Grainger's house and I can assure you he isn't listening at those levels... ;).  I use a free app called Decibel 10th on my iPad that says I am in the 75 to 80db range typically. Anything over that I worry I'm disturbing the neighbors. It's a pretty slick program for free and will also allow you to capture and email it's findings.

Joel
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: corndog71 on February 19, 2013, 06:38:31 AM
My night time listening is typically around 66dB but during the day I might bump it up as high as 85dB.  I rarely crank it higher unless I'm demoing my system for my latest victim. ;D
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: Grainger49 on February 19, 2013, 09:37:11 AM
Joel's post gave me a kick in the ass.  I let visitors choose a comfortable volume.  I hate it when someone listens so loud I can't enjoy the music.

I checked with Chicago Transit Authority, the first album.  It might have gone 3-5dB louder, as loud as I will listen to rock, or any music.  But as I listen the volume control goes from the 10:00-11:00 position to the 1:00 over the first half hour.  Jerry Douglas sounds better at a lower volume, so does the Wailin' Jennys.
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: ironbut on February 19, 2013, 09:59:35 AM
CTA is kinda famous for having some unusually high peaks on the horn section. So, their albums probably aren't the best for testing average levels.

What I've always heard was what Doc mentioned in his first post. 82dB is the "loud" reference level for my nearfield monitors. And being able to carry on a conversation at normal speaking levels is a quick and dirty way to be sure that the monitor level isn't higher than that.
I do tend to listen to headphones at higher levels though. I often have to turn the volume down a few dB's if I expect my perception of high frequencies to last for hours on end (particularly +12kHz).
I'm 59 years old and while I can still hear 5 or 6 dB changes in frequencies above 14kHz, I have to be pretty focused on those "air" frequencies to hear changes at 16kHz and above (plus, there just ain't that much energy happening in that freq range on most recordings).

So, if you listen to headphones a lot, my advice is to train yourself to keep the levels reasonable. It's tempting to try and get that pant leg flapping bass on headphones by cranking up the volume, but it's just not good for your hearing to do that all the time.
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: earwaxxer on February 19, 2013, 01:13:38 PM
Hey Steve - I know what you are saying about headphones. They require discipline. The sound can be so good you loose track of the db's. Thats why I dont listen with headphones! Discipline is not something I exercise with my audio hobby.

It funny that several have mentioned CTA as a reference. I have been using that album as a reference when making changes to my system. It seems to be a recording that is particularly difficult to get to sound 'right'. Not sure why. It might be because the horns and the piano are hard to reproduce just right, not sure. Its a favorite album of mine, and it is pure nirvana when it sounds right. I think it can tend to be bright. That may be part of it. Great album though, and a great piece of pure 60's Americana. I remember my friends sister turned us on to it, as well as Iron Butterfly.
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: tsingle999 on February 19, 2013, 06:38:14 PM
I measured tonight using the ipad app suggested in the thread and averaged 93/94. What? I cant hear you...
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: Grainger49 on February 20, 2013, 01:41:37 AM
Reminds me of the Allman Brothers concert where we were in front of a 20' stack of speakers.  We were pummeled!!

We should have taken this offline.  We are way off topic.
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: earwaxxer on February 20, 2013, 03:15:34 AM
wow - Allman Brothers in concert. That must have been one to remember! Those audio systems sounded fantastic back in the day. At least thats the way I remember them.
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: Grainger49 on February 20, 2013, 03:56:43 AM
My first was 1969, the Allman Brothers were warm up for Santana.  The most recent is the one where we sat in front of the speakers.  It was 2001-2004 sometime.  Those seats should not have been sold even to someone who is deaf. 
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: Natural Sound on February 20, 2013, 04:36:50 AM
Who remembers, "The Wall of Sound."

(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.audioheritage.org%2Fimages%2Fjbl%2Fphotos%2Fpro-speakers%2Fgrateful.jpg&hash=b862a349179d2c2d2e4a22fb6f93cef67dd29e7a)
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: 4krow on February 20, 2013, 05:16:01 AM
And WE worry about speaker placement. umm what cables are they using? umm, what kind of connector enhancer do they like?
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: bainjs on February 20, 2013, 06:07:03 AM
I remember reading somewhere when the group Blue Cheer (who remembers them?) played a concert, maintenance crews had to go through afterwards and re-tighten the screws in the seats because of the volume level.  That's LOUD!
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: corndog71 on February 20, 2013, 09:58:20 AM
And WE worry about speaker placement. umm what cables are they using? umm, what kind of connector enhancer do they like?

They have the benefit of physics to overcome minor details such as these.
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: 4krow on February 20, 2013, 10:57:16 AM
I dont believe you.
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: manis on March 23, 2013, 12:23:56 PM
My fiance just downloaded an app on her iGadget (Decibel 10th, the same as Joel up in this thread used) to measure sound pressure levels. The living room where I also do my listening measures at 36-37 dB when nobody is talking. Based on the readings, I listen to my music between 65 and 75 dB on average, with occasional dynamic peaks shooting up to around 80 dB. Measurements taken in the evening past 10 o' clock.

If I go above 75-80 dB average, I start to get fatigued and uncomfortable quickly, which is probably a side effect of several things:
- crappy, rather plasticky speakers I'm using at the moment ($50 Pyle PDMN48 (http://www.amazon.com/Pyle-PDMN48-5-Inch-Reflex-Mini-Monitor/dp/B000GA73BS) anyone? :P)
- wall behind speakers and wall behind listening spot less than 2.5m apart
- simple DAC that does a decent job for the price but just sounds too digital to my taste
- no acoustic treatment

I'm waiting for my Orcas to arrive, fingers crossed. They should represent a more than decent remedy against listening fatigue if I may believe the general consensus. And I should also look into hanging some sort of absorbing panels behind the speakers... I guess this is why it's called a hobby.. it never ends :)
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: chard on March 23, 2013, 02:31:57 PM
 Classical music is very dynamic in an instant it goes from being so quiet that I have to strain my ears to hear all the musical details to being so loud I find myself suddenly upright in my chair and all my muscles taut. In order to enjoy the soft passages my amp has to be set at a volume level that makes the loud passages very loud. I enjoy the loud passages and they don't last very long. Maybe this is why Beethoven became deaf.   
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: manis on March 23, 2013, 09:42:24 PM
 
Classical music is very dynamic in an instant it goes from being so quiet that I have to strain my ears to hear all the musical details to being so loud I find myself suddenly upright in my chair and all my muscles taut. In order to enjoy the soft passages my amp has to be set at a volume level that makes the loud passages very loud. I enjoy the loud passages and they don't last very long. Maybe this is why Beethoven became deaf.   

If there is too much "dynamic swing" in a recording, mostly classical, I find it very difficult to use headphones especially... The loud passages are just too loud to be bearable! Probably 100 dB easily.
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: RayP on March 24, 2013, 03:04:15 AM
I doubt that Beethoven went deaf from too much noise. The Wiki article below has a section on his deafness.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_van_Beethoven (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_van_Beethoven)

However over twenty years ago I went to a concert at the Peabody Institute in Baltimore where the students played all 32 Beethoven piano sonatas. This monster concert started at 10 am and finished after midnight with a few breaks. The hall was quite lively and I have to say that at the end of the concert, my ears hurt. But I did get a new understanding of Beethoven.

The loudest piece I have heard in a concert hall was Messiaen's Turangalila. When the ondes martenot gets going it can get very loud. Which leads into the studies about orchestral musicians suffering from hearing loss.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21173486

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20721657

http://www.artsjournal.com/slippeddisc/2012/12/shock-data-60-percent-of-musicians-are-losing-their-hearing.html

I have seen some musicians sitting in front of the brass with plastic shields behind them for protection.

But now to a question. I measured my listening room and it appears to average about 32 db. Some peaks when music is playing come about mid eighties. If somehow I could reduce the background noise to 25 db by throwing out the refrigerator in the next room, could I reduce the volume I play the music and still get the same effect of dynamics?

ray


Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: 4krow on March 24, 2013, 05:29:49 AM
The mention of piano performances reminded me of a recital that I attended. Maybe to make a fresh impression of her interpretation of Chopin, was to ATTACK the keys with all her might. Load and annoying, I left after a short while. I stayed as long as I did hoping that this student might have a change in character towards her performance, but no. My hearing is worth more than violent interpretation.
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: manis on March 24, 2013, 07:20:22 AM
If somehow I could reduce the background noise to 25 db by throwing out the refrigerator in the next room, could I reduce the volume I play the music and still get the same effect of dynamics?

I think the only way to actually check that is to go empirical. However, I do not think unplugging a typical fridge will render a sound pressure drop of 7 dB. To give you an idea, when I switched off mine, which is in the same room as where I listen to music, I only saw a 1-1.5 dB decrease. I could be completely wrong, of course, since I don't know your situation :)

Please do tell us your empirical findings.
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: Grainger49 on March 24, 2013, 07:21:24 AM
I can attest that lowering the noise floor sounds like turning up the volume.  I found that back in the 90s with a Power Wedge that eliminated power line noise. 
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: fishboat on March 24, 2013, 08:22:06 AM
This has piqued my interest..I have a radioshack meter around here somewhere.  I'll need to spin up a couple cds and see where average listening is for me.  I too remember (sort of) a Frank Zappa concert in Chicago many years ago where we had seats about 25 feet out in front of the left speaker bank..yeow..  No lasting damage though as my hearing has been tested a number of times since and has been 'excellent'.

I'm on the leading edge (as in I haven't started yet) of building a pair of 97dB speakers and powering them with a yet to be assembled Stereomour..I haven't experienced SET power and high sensitivity speakers, but, from this thread, it sounds like I'll have more than enough power (room 13 x ~16).

As as interesting aside..I read recently that all frequent motorcycle riders that don't protect their hearing tend to have hearing damage due to wind noise.  I don't ride, but that took me a bit by surprise.   
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: fishboat on March 24, 2013, 01:30:07 PM
Just listened to Dizzy Gillespie, Cool World. 

Low 80's dB is plenty loud.  When Diz really hit it I'd get peaks of 90dB.  Piano would push it to peaks of 86-88dB. 
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: drewh1 on March 24, 2013, 03:54:59 PM
I find my normal listening level is about 79 - 85 dB, sometimes higher when things are rocking, lower late at night.
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: Paul Joppa on March 24, 2013, 06:06:11 PM
No.

The "frequency response" (for want of a more accurate term) of the ear is level dependent, so it only sounds right when the level is appropriate. The audiophile magic words are Fletcher-Munson Equal Loudness Contours, though there has been a much more modern and accurate ISO standard for the last few decades.

Old-style preamps had a "loudness contour" control or switch which would boost the lows and some of the highs to make an approximate correction and allow for a lower listening level. Most of those are based on the F-M curves, though I think I've seen one published that was closer to the more recent data. But the correction and lower levels have gone out of fashion, so neither approach is at all common these days.

Nevertheless, most studio engineers listen at a level of around 82dB, defined as the moderate-term average (time constant about 300mS) of musical peaks, as measured by a VU meter. A typical SPL meter will have similar characteristics to the VU meter, though not identical.

Note that quality recordings will have instantaneous peaks typically 5 time higher (+14dB), with studio compression. This is well below symphony orchestra levels in the closer seats, which may run more like 90-95dB if I recall correctly, and for a few instruments can have instantaneous peaks some 30dB greater. The real-world peaks are essentially never available in recordings, so that's an interesting but irrelevant piece of data. Clipping of these instantaneous peaks is usually an audible degradation, though it is much more subtle with the soft clipping of zero-feedback SET amps compared to high feedback amps. It's my belief that this effect is responsible for the reputation that SET watts are bigger than solid state watts.
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: Chris on March 26, 2013, 09:16:35 AM
That makes alot of sense about the perception of SET watts...
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: 4krow on March 26, 2013, 11:29:59 AM
Paul,

  I think you hit the nail on the head. There is a right volume for many things. Sometimes it seems more important to me with some music than other music. Having said that, and with some experimentation, I won't go so far as to use fine/coarse mono controls for both channels, but I have found a pleasant medium with a main volume control and a fine tune control, one for each channel.
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: earwaxxer on March 26, 2013, 02:30:44 PM
Its funny, I was just thinking about what Greg was saying about the live piano recital that was a bit 'much'. I have experienced that with live symphony music that was quite loud and intense. My hearing was a bit 'overwhelmed', and if I was listening to that sound over speakers I would probably find some sort of faults with the system! How crazy is that! Like what am I going to 'blame' - the hall acoustics? - no, this hall was one of the best for acoustics in the state. What I can blame is my jack-ass 'audiophile' mentality.
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: Brent on March 26, 2013, 03:23:23 PM
Eric,

What can you do but laugh--I've had similar enlightening experiences with sounds that, if I heard them on a record, would have me cleaning the record or checking my stylus or fiddling alignment or. . ..you get the idea.  We're all somewhere on the audiophile jackass continuum, or we wouldn't be reading or participating in this conversation.  I will say that the BH/DIY (Seduction + SEX 2.0 + just about everything else at this point) experience has helped immensely with that 'problem'.

Back to the main topic, 75 to 80 dB here, when the wife and kids are out of the house.  And to respond to comments above, it's shocking how loud live acoustic instruments can be if you don't hear them on a regular basis.  I don't these days, BTW.   :) ::)

Brent
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: 4krow on March 26, 2013, 05:25:27 PM
Oh no, no, no. Let me clarify. That bitches' ass was jumpin off the saddle. Her feet weren't even touching the ground, she hit those keys like step children. The wicked witch of the West couldn't have scared me more....
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: earwaxxer on March 26, 2013, 05:35:52 PM
I know Greg... The medicine has been good for you since then, dont forget. We love you.
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: 4krow on March 26, 2013, 06:27:50 PM
I see that I haven't made myself clear. Let me try again. I knew something was wrong because when the pianist came out on stage, she was wearing boxing gloves. They said that by the end of the recital, she had key marks on her forehead. I became worried when she broke two of her finest clubs during the performance. There were 13 disturbing the peace complaints FROM the police station. After the recital she apologized on stage for her chain saw running out of gas.
 But you have to understand, she is from a small town. "HOW SMALL IS IT?" It's so small, the local prostitute is still a virgin. Birth control there is a felony. When the local folk are hoping for a good crop, they are NOT talking about the fields, THAT"S how small this town is.


                         Any Questions?
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: RayP on March 27, 2013, 03:16:50 AM
I would be curious to know what piece the Chopin pianist was playing. He was reputed to play very quietly and there is a famous quote by Thalberg down the page in the following link.

http://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=41729.0 (http://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=41729.0)

Some years ago I went to the International Piano Archives at the University of Maryland.

http://www.lib.umd.edu/ipam (http://www.lib.umd.edu/ipam)

The curator took me on a tour and kindly found time to fire up the old Ampico player piano. I had asked to hear the Liszt Campanella with Joseph Lhevinne and when it was playing it was fascinating to stand at the keyboard and you could tell he probably was a small man just by the way the keys went up and down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5D6VrcW4Sgw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5D6VrcW4Sgw)

We then followed up with Rachmaninov playing one of his preludes and you could tell that this was a much bigger and more powerful man playing who had at least fifteen fingers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXGSfJn3nKQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXGSfJn3nKQ)

I love it when a big pianist comes on stage and it looks like he could wreck the piano if necessary. Oddly enough they are usually good enough pianists to play really softly if necessary. It's a bit like loudspeakers, some can play low and loud better than others.

ray
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: 4krow on March 27, 2013, 06:13:43 AM
And THAT is where interpretation comes in. In her case, there was little in the way of dynamics, it was mostly forte' or more. The town that I lived in at the time was known for being different in every way they could manage. I loved and hated some of the stuff that went on there. Point being a lot of their antics were for effect only.
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: Brent on March 27, 2013, 09:25:36 AM
Quote
I see that I haven't made myself clear. Let me try again. I knew something was wrong because when the pianist came out on stage, she was wearing boxing gloves. They said that by the end of the recital, she had key marks on her forehead. I became worried when she broke two of her finest clubs during the performance. There were 13 disturbing the peace complaints FROM the police station. After the recital she apologized on stage for her chain saw running out of gas.

Well when you put it like that. . . I wish I could have seen it.  On TV.  Or maybe live, if the pianist was in a cage for the audience's protection (was she in a cage for the audience's protection?).

Incidentally, I wasn't doubting your assessment of the performance.  I thought I'd seen more than one post about loud live acoustic music, but I was (am) too lazy to actually look back and see.  Hence the reference to unspecified "comments above".
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: 4krow on March 27, 2013, 11:29:34 AM
F-I-N-AL-LY, someone gets it. congrats.


 Eric, pay attention, or suffer the consequences.
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: 2wo on March 27, 2013, 11:58:21 AM
"she hit those keys like step children"  ;D...John
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: earwaxxer on March 27, 2013, 02:14:13 PM
F-I-N-AL-LY, someone gets it. congrats.


 Eric, pay attention, or suffer the consequences.

I would be willing to bet that the 'small town' you are referring to was Flagstaff, AZ. It seems to fit the descriptions.
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: 4krow on March 27, 2013, 03:34:08 PM
So close dude. Right state. The town was Bisbee Az, where I lived for 4 years. A dream it was living in that place, 8 miles from the border. Everybody bitched about the government but no one was late picking up their welfare check. Aside from that, it was a VERY cool town to live in, if you didn't mind the gunplay. No, I'm not joking. I lived on Brewery Gulch, and if the gunshots didn't get ya, the ricochets might.
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: earwaxxer on March 27, 2013, 03:43:43 PM
wow Bisbee! - that town is in a whole nother universe! The wife and I like to go there for something different than the usual Tucson thing. Its like Alice in Wonderland.
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: 4krow on March 28, 2013, 04:12:11 AM
No, no, Alice in Mardi-gra. Aside from that, the town is alive with voices from the past. I also lived in Tucson for 17 years, and yup, Bisbee was a getaway for me too. BTW, is Wilson Audio still in business in Tucson?
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: earwaxxer on March 28, 2013, 04:16:33 AM
Yep - same owners - strange as always!
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: 4krow on March 28, 2013, 04:25:00 AM
LOL yep, that's the place. How 'bout Jerrys? Still rippin people off?
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: Natural Sound on April 16, 2013, 11:46:50 AM
I just took my FPIII and paramour II's out of service for some upgrades. In their place went my S.E.X. 2.0 with some magnificent Magnequest pinstripe iron and other goodies in them. This amp has been in a box in my closet for a year or so. Not for any reason other than my obsession with 45 tubes lately. Anyway, I recall that when this was my mainstay amp I would run them around half volume for most material. It turns out that this is right around the "recommended" 82 dB level. I forgot how damn good this amp sounded!
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: earwaxxer on April 16, 2013, 04:06:55 PM
Ok back to the subject about how loud do I listen to music. I dont know if I said this before in this forum, but, my perception of 'loudness', and the actual sound pressure level are dependent on the 'quality' of said audio reproduction.

Case in point - today I was listening at what I would estimate, to be some fairly high sound pressure levels. I was 'auditioning' my new battery pack power supply for the uLink. IMO, high volume is were the 'warts' in the system show themselves more clearly. For the record I do think the battery sounds better than the USB power from the laptop. - Anyway - I was more 'comfortable' than usual at that volume level due to the sound being more focused and less 'noisy'. I also have less ear ringing after the session.

Greg - fascinating AZ experiences and perceptions! - I love and hate this state at the same time. 
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: manis on April 19, 2013, 09:07:52 AM
Anyway, I recall that when this was my mainstay amp I would run them around half volume for most material. It turns out that this is right around the "recommended" 82 dB level. I forgot how damn good this amp sounded!

So the S.E.X. 2.0 with Orcas produce about 82 dB with the pot half way? Is that 12 o' clock? And how were they wired with regards to impedance?
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: Doc B. on April 19, 2013, 10:14:50 AM
Anyway, I recall that when this was my mainstay amp I would run them around half volume for most material. It turns out that this is right around the "recommended" 82 dB level. I forgot how damn good this amp sounded!

So the S.E.X. 2.0 with Orcas produce about 82 dB with the pot half way? Is that 12 o' clock? And how were they wired with regards to impedance?

That's not enough info. You have to know what the output level of the source feeding the S.E.X. amp is.
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: 4krow on April 19, 2013, 10:15:34 AM
is that 7A.M. and 5 P.M.? Or 5A.M. and 7A.M.heh heh sorry, couldn't resist.
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: earwaxxer on April 19, 2013, 10:31:31 AM
I think its 5am - Bisbee time....
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: Natural Sound on April 19, 2013, 12:20:42 PM
Anyway, I recall that when this was my mainstay amp I would run them around half volume for most material. It turns out that this is right around the "recommended" 82 dB level. I forgot how damn good this amp sounded!

So the S.E.X. 2.0 with Orcas produce about 82 dB with the pot half way? Is that 12 o' clock? And how were they wired with regards to impedance?

Actually thats with my SEXy speakers. My Orcas and subs haven't arrived yet. I've been waiting 110 days so far, and still no signs of them. But that's another story.

The stops are set at 7:00 and 5:00 as Grainger indicated. I'm using a MyDAC to feed the S.E.X. amp which is rated at 2V rms output but I haven't actually measured it.
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: manis on April 19, 2013, 08:06:37 PM
That's not enough info. You have to know what the output level of the source feeding the S.E.X. amp is.

I was quite sure I was missing something :)

FWIW, on the Stereophile website I found some data regarding the HRT Music Streamer II that's my source at the moment:

"It locked to data with sample rates of 44.1 and 48kHz and had a maximum output level at 1kHz of 2.16V. The signal was absolute polarity-correct and was sourced from the same impedance as the Streamer+, 246 ohms, at low and middle frequencies, this dropping slightly at 20kHz, to 226 ohms."


Is this the relevant information? Anyway, I guess I'll just find out first hand how loud they'll go at which setting.

My Orcas and subs haven't arrived yet. I've been waiting 110 days so far, and still no signs of them. But that's another story.

Wow, and I thought waiting 17 days (so far) was nail biting agony. What's the hold up?
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: Natural Sound on April 21, 2013, 06:06:37 AM


My Orcas and subs haven't arrived yet. I've been waiting 110 days so far, and still no signs of them. But that's another story.

Wow, and I thought waiting 17 days (so far) was nail biting agony. What's the hold up?

That's an excellent question. One that I don
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: Molly B on April 21, 2013, 10:51:53 AM


My Orcas and subs haven't arrived yet. I've been waiting 110 days so far, and still no signs of them. But that's another story.

Wow, and I thought waiting 17 days (so far) was nail biting agony. What's the hold up?

That's an excellent question. One that I don
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: Natural Sound on April 21, 2013, 01:18:09 PM
Molly, I sent you a reply offline via e-mail.
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: earwaxxer on April 21, 2013, 02:42:03 PM
Just a reminder... there are other very good options out there for American made speakers at very good prices. Ex. Magnepan MMG's - $600/pair. Just saying. I'm not saying they are the best buy out there, but they must be very damn close.

Peace - Eric
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: Natural Sound on April 21, 2013, 03:44:18 PM
Just a reminder... there are other very good options out there for American made speakers at very good prices. Ex. Magnepan MMG's - $600/pair. Just saying. I'm not saying they are the best buy out there, but they must be very damn close.

Peace - Eric
Nice speakers but not SET friendly. They need lots of power to get them going.
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: earwaxxer on April 21, 2013, 04:52:15 PM
True, not SET power amp friendly. But certainly tube pre amps fit the bill quite nicely.
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: 4krow on April 21, 2013, 05:29:27 PM
Wow Earic(heh heh, I just like that spelling better), I bought a set of MMG's many years ago and the price then was $500. Pretty decent that only a $100 up in so many years.
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: earwaxxer on April 22, 2013, 09:07:26 AM
Hey Greg - The Magnepan folks live by the adage 'If it aint broken, dont fix it'. Those MMG's have remained the same in construction and price for many years. They just recently upgraded the crossover, then went to a full 'pseudo ribbon' design. In my experience, they continue to sound better and better with other upgrades in my system. The speed of the ribbon is fantastic.
cheers - Eairdick.
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: Mike B on July 12, 2013, 12:52:01 PM
My usual level is ~65 dB.  That's for serious listening - :)  I set it under 60 if I'm reading a book.

People ask me what I listen too, classic rock.

Huh?  Yeah, it amazes me too. 

I have a system in the garage I built with Eminance Beta 10's and Selenium compression drivers driven with a kilowatt not including the subwoofer and that can get to near concert level with the clip lights just blinking at the peaks.

But in the bedroom the 8 inch Tangbands feel the caress of the Stereomour and the soul of the music gets through even better and makes me shiver it's so good.

Really, ~65 dB at 3 meters in bed.  I got up and verified, it is ~71 at 1 meter.  With rat shack analog (needle) SPL meter.  I said "Hi" and the meter pegged.  Yup, well under normal speech.

That's what I love about the high efficiency single driver and the tubes, I get all the sound w/o all the volume.  It's on every night at bedtime.  I look forward to it.  Sometimes I wake up at midnight and find I forgot to turn it off.

Simply amazing and wonderful!
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: earwaxxer on July 12, 2013, 04:08:35 PM
Hey Mike - you know you're as serious phile when you have a system in every room of the house!
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: Mike B on July 12, 2013, 05:35:46 PM
Oh yeah.  I'm serious.  Demented even.

(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm5.static.flickr.com%2F4014%2F4674991455_34f99bdeb1_b.jpg&hash=a03daa86a84a8cb966c70824f74ed6e33c12306a)

Serious watts.

(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm4.static.flickr.com%2F3632%2F3579451385_6037371e58_o.jpg&hash=7b90feecf61bbfc27bfb20253ac222b2f35205ec)

Serious speaks.

All that stuff didn't cost as much as the flea powered tube amps I've bought recently.

Yup, 65 dB.  If I want to rock & roll and feel it hit my chest I can always go out to the garage and get 115 dB.  It actually sounds good there too.  I'm getting too old for that shit - :)
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: earwaxxer on July 12, 2013, 05:40:38 PM
Thats sick!
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: 4krow on July 12, 2013, 05:57:15 PM
   Good Lord Bro! an' ta think they just use ipods nowa days....they don't know what they are missing. Kinda like some of the little 4bangers driving makin noise.
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: earwaxxer on July 12, 2013, 06:15:18 PM
I would be kicked out of neighborhood if I had shit like that in my garage! As it is I have to make sure my windows are closed when I'm in a 'session'.
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: Mike B on July 12, 2013, 06:48:08 PM
 :)

I've been workin' on that for years now.  The Bellari "sonic exciter" was the end.  It's got a couple of 12AX7's in it and really helped the sound.  Before I would just get the clip lights blinking and then shut it down 'cause it just was loud.  With the Bellari I could do the same thing except it sounded so good I could just leave it there until the speaks melted.

It's a baby pro sound setup with some car audio stuff.  The 2 half kilowatt A500's feed the Beta 10's and the car amp sends 25 watts each to the co-axial compression drivers.  A quarter kilowatt plate amp powers the 12 inch 94 dB/watt sub.  Active XO separates the signals and the EQ notches out the resonant peak on the Betas.

But it's the Bellari that makes it sound like bliss.  It's that damn thing that got me into the tubes!

It can get really loud.  I've never had a problem with the neighbors though.  That's what's amazing.  I have cranked it to clipping with the big door open and when I walked out to the property line it wasn't that bad.  Oh yeah, you can still hear it, but the sound of a car driving by covers it up.  And it's not like I leave it cranked all the time.  I will "clip out" a song or 2 and then go back to backround level.  With the big door shut I don't think anybody would care as long as it wasn't dark outside.

And it takes up zero floor space - :)
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: Grainger49 on July 13, 2013, 01:16:22 AM
Mike, 65dBA is like a soft spoken conversation.  Are you sure you measured the sound level in the room?
Title: Re: How loud do you listen to music?
Post by: Mike B on July 13, 2013, 05:08:19 AM
Yup.

Amazing eh?  I think so too.  It sure sounds louder than that.  I think it's because of all the detail the system brings out.

I lay in bed with the mic of the meter pointed between the speaks about 3 meters away.

Like I said, this is a bedroom system and Pops is just down the hall.  Can't be keeping him awake - :)