Bottlehead Forum
Bottlehead Kits => Crack => Topic started by: mSummers on August 18, 2013, 03:47:54 PM
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I noticed several build threads that mentioned using Teflon sockets in place of the stock ceramic sockets. I also read that Teflon used to have a tendency to deform over time which creates poor connections. Is that still a problem? Would Bakelite be a better choice?
I was looking at these Teflon: http://www.partsconnexion.com/socket_connex_teflon.html or these Bakelite: http://www.partsconnexion.com/socket_bakelite.html
Thoughts?
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Use the stock socket and save the cash for trinkets that actually have an affect on the overall sound. Fancy tube sockets are kin to audio jewelry. Good solder joints and strong mechanical connections are the true magic behind a tube socket.
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Sorry, I should have mentioned that I was looking at upgrading the sockets because they make the connection with the pins over a larger surface area compared to the stock sockets. I assumed that constituted a better connection than the stock sockets that only touch the pins on 2 sides.
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Everything makes a difference. Unfortunately, the masters of the craft are long gone, and those of us who are left with tubes and their sockets don't even know what we don't know.
Example - to work reliably, the socket connector material must be have enough of a linear bending range to accommodate repeated tube swapping without losing its grip. Sixty years ago socket makers understood what alloys and annealings would serve this function best and/or most cost-effectively. Their sockets frequently used Bakelite, so now we think that Bakelite is a good socket material. Today, we have tubes with metric approximations of the standard dimensions - so the demands on the metallurgy are more extreme - but the third-world socket factories do not have access to the metallurgical knowledge and often don't even use the traditional materials. And we users are too ignorant to realize this. There are no big (RCA etc.) factories using billions of sockets with research departments checking up on the factories.
So now we have teflon, which handles heat very well and has an admirable dielectric constant. That's important in capacitors but much, much less so in a tube socket. We are entering the second generation of teflon sockets and a few manufacturers are addressing the problems that appeared in the first generation; naturally it will be ten years before we know whether these changes will extend the socket's life to ten years.
Just sayin' ...
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Paul,
I'm not surprised about the situation. RCA jacks however, may have benefit from some manufacturers caring about fit and quality, but sadly, it is still a trial and error process to find what works best for you. it seems that other connectors in our systems are suspect as well. I refer to the IEC power inlet on most equipment. There have been a few cases where I have resorted to using a 20 amp inlet, just to help insure the tight fit that I was expecting.
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Good sockets must have and maintain good contact with the pins. That is the foremost requirement. Materials are a secondary consideration. I have had good luck with the Teflon and ceramic Asian sockets with the milled sockets.
I agree with Paul, old stock sockets are really much better than the currently manufactured "typical" gold pin ceramic sockets. I really hate the typical Chinese octal sockets with the two "cinch fingers".
Cheers,
Geary
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Interesting discussion. I didn't even think about the possibility that today's socket manufacturer's don't know how they were made originally. I'll probably go with the Connex Teflon sockets since they have phosphor bronze contacts which is supposed to have good resistance to fatigue.
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I agree. Heat changes everything.
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I think Paul's point was, in part, that the choice of materials impacts the reliability and durability of the pin contact. It isn't just a matter of socket design/shape.
Best regards,
Adam
Sorry, but that statement makes absolutely no sense to me, especially in reference to PJ's post. A bad design with perfect materials is still pretty much bad. A good design with somewhat compromised materials is still a better choice. Of course, as in all things, YMMV.
Cheers,
Geary
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Easy big fellas. It's just a hobby.
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Wow! Sorry! :o
Cheers,
Geary
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What I got from Paul Joppa's post was that it will take 10 years to see how well current day manufacturers have done.
I went with the Connex Teflon "Composite" (whatever that means) chassis mount Silver plated (because silver tarnish is a great conductor) for my 3 signal tubes in the Eros. A whopping $6 each.
I may never live to know how well they do long term. I'm already past the expiration date.
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I generally prefer good ceramic sockets to bakelite or teflon sockets.
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I use Belton-branded sockets in my non-BH builds. I think they are of high quality and really grip the pins very tight.
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There are definitely a lot of different opinions out there regarding the tube sockets. I've used the China/Taiwan sourced ceramic, Teflon, Teflon-composite, vintage phenolic U.S. sockets, new production plastic U.S. sockets, all in silver and gold plate and I've never had a problem with any of them ::knock on wood::
When it comes to my personal preference, which is worth about a hill of beans ;) , I tend to like the Teflon gold plated beryllium copper sockets from Taiwan; They grip the pins tightly, I can use a PCB underneath so I have plenty of room for soldering, the Teflon provides a modicum of vibration damping, and the metal is highly conductive. The Teflon sockets I have have been in use for nearly 4 years, they're holding up so far.