Bottlehead Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: JosephDuffy on October 14, 2013, 04:52:10 AM
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Hi everyone,
I'm working on building a record setup and have nothing but some HD650s, which were (very kindly) gifted to me. I was hoping to buy a Crack, and found that Massdrop were doing a good deal on the Crack. I had since missed this deal, but they then posted a deal on the SEX.
I understand that the Crack should be better my headphone, but I was thinking that, some day, I would also buy/build some speakers. I understand that the SEX is good for speakers and ok for my headphones. The SEX will be a little more expensive ($620 w/ C4S and Output Impedance Switch Kit vs $470 w/ Speedball), but is it worth the extra money/slightly worse headphone performance? I don't think I'll be able to afford both any time soon so I'm a little lost.
I'm a little new to the audiophile world, never mind building my own amp, so please go easy! :)
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I don't think the dominant opinion is that Crack is better with HD650s. Both are good and Crack is less expensive. Though Crack and Speedball is close to the ultimate discounted Massdrop price for the S.E.X. Check out Loquah's detailed comparison on Head Fi.
https://www.head-fi.org/t/683012/bottlehead-amplifier-discussion-comparison-thread-crack-sex-mainline (https://www.head-fi.org/t/683012/bottlehead-amplifier-discussion-comparison-thread-crack-sex-mainline)
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I don't think the dominant opinion is that Crack is better with HD650s. Both are good and Crack is less expensive. Though Crack and Speedball is close to the ultimate discounted Massdrop price for the S.E.X. Check out Loquah's detailed comparison on Head Fi.
https://www.head-fi.org/t/683012/bottlehead-amplifier-discussion-comparison-thread-crack-sex-mainline (https://www.head-fi.org/t/683012/bottlehead-amplifier-discussion-comparison-thread-crack-sex-mainline)
From what I have read, I am finding that specifically for the HD650s that the Crack is better in the majority of cases, but it doesn't seem to be a huge difference, some do prefer the SEX, and the SEX can power speakers.
I think with a couple more SEX + HD650 owners I might be persuaded! :)
Plus,
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At some point I have to recuse myself from commenting on this comparison stuff because it will just be taken as a sales pitch. Hopefully one would find that the sonic quality follows the price. I'd like to think so. Perhaps you need to weigh just how important using the amp for both headphones and speakers is. It seems that is the feature that has created the question in the first place.
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Joseph, first of all, welcome to the obsession.
I have both and a pair of HD-600 (not 650). My SEX amp is the earlier 2.0 version. From what I hear the current 2.1 model is even better. Both amps sound awesome. But if there is a remote chance of running speakers in the future then your decision is simple. Get the SEX amp.
IMHO everyone should own a SEX amp. When my main system is down for repair or upgrades I put the SEX amp in its place. It never fails to amaze me how good it sounds driving headphones or speakers. The SEX amp is a very versatile piece of Bottlehead gear that everyone should own.
That's my two cents anyway.
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Hi Joseph,
I no longer have the HD650s but owned and listened to them for a long time before buying my current HP of choice (Beyer T1s). As I've discussed in the Head-Fi comparison thread (I'm called "Loquah" over there), the S.E.X. has a cleaner more detailed sound which I believe would lend itself beautifully to the HD650s.
As much as I loved the HD650s I always yearned for a little more top-end detail to pair with their glorious mids and bass. I think the S.E.X. is perfect for this purpose as it's slightly leaner in the bass (which won't hurt the HD650s due to their beautiful warm sound) and has incredible detail, texture and separation in the higher registers.
My 5c worth would be a strong recommendation for the versatility and performance of the S.E.X. Yes, the Crack is good, but the S.E.X. can do more and does what it does a little better in almost all areas (except bass warmth and quantity). The only reasons I would recommend the Crack would be for someone with limited budget (not an issue with the Massdrop deal) and / or someone who REALLY wants the more intimate (i.e. less spacious) presentation of the Crack compared to the S.E.X.
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FWIW, I just opted for and ordered the SEX instead of the crack. It seems to be the more versatile offer. In the longer term I think it is the better decision and well worth the additional $$. After my very positive experience with the Quickie I fully trust in BH's designs and look very much forward to the delivery :-)
Michael
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Thanks for all the replies everyone!
With everyone's opinions/feedback and more research I ended up opting for the S.E.X and I'm really looking forward to building it (it's my first project so it'll be a bit of challenge, but I think it'll be really fun!)
It seems that it's going to be better than adequate for my HD650s and I actually wouldn't mind some good speakers (another project to build?), so overall it's the best for my needs
Feel free to keep pitching in everyone, but I've made my decision for now :)
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Hi Joseph,
I built my S.E.X. kit as a group activity with 2 friends who also built a kit each. Neither of them had built anything before. That experience taught me that anyone can build the S.E.X. so long as they take their time and read the instructions carefully. 1 of us had some troubles, but it all came down to lack of attention, not skill.
Take your time and enjoy the process. You'll love the results!! Oh, and this is an awesome community if you get stuck anywhere - there's great knowledge and people answer really promptly and at all hours of the day and night.
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As many people have advised, I'll be taking my sweet time and watch as many videos as possible so that it goes as well as possible!
2 quick questions:
What solder does everyone recommend? My Dad has a soldering kit that I'm going to borrow next time I got home, but I still need some solder or anything "extra" that might help me out?
Have people tried a mains conditioner with the S.E.X.? I've been looking at a Tacima CS929 but I'm hearing mixed results, which seem to be based on the setup, although mainly the amp.
Thanks for everyone's replies! I'm loving the community already :)
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Any solder that says for electronics will be good. There are threads about solder in the Tech tools folder. Just stay away from solder with either copper or silver in it. Those take too much heat to become liquid for a starter.
When picking up your dad's soldering iron let him show you how to solder. Then try it yourself several times. You can buy some terminal strips and resistors at Radio shack. Just jump the resistor leads from one terminal to one two away. Make a J with the leads, crimp them on to the terminals and then solder. Your father should show you how much solder to use.
As for conditioning, I have tried Power Wedges (good) and a PS Audio Regenerator (best for me). If you search "power regeneration" in the General folder my post is the first hit.
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+1
Practicing your soldering is important. A friend of mine who hadn't soldered before struggled in the tight spaces towards the end of the S.E.X. build and left large globs of solder which actually fused 2 contacts together in a couple of places where those contacts should not be connected. Much solder-sucking later I am ready to rebuild it for him while he's off getting married overseas - consider it a wedding present I suppose :P
Long story short. Do some practice work and take your time on the output transformer soldering to really get the hang of it in the open, easy soldering opportunity they offer.
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Any solder that says for electronics will be good. There are threads about solder in the Tech tools folder. Just stay away from solder with either copper or silver in it. Those take too much heat to become liquid for a starter.
When picking up your dad's soldering iron let him show you how to solder. Then try it yourself several times. You can buy some terminal strips and resistors at Radio shack. Just jump the resistor leads from one terminal to one two away. Make a J with the leads, crimp them on to the terminals and then solder. Your father should show you how much solder to use.
As for conditioning, I have tried Power Wedges (good) and a PS Audio Regenerator (best for me). If you search "power regeneration" in the General folder my post is the first hit.
Can you recommend any solder? The only place I know in the UK that does this sort of thing is Maplin, but they don't seem to have a great search.
I did Engineering for 2 years, and that taught me to solder. I appreciate I won't be that good at it, and it was 3 years ago, but I will get some practice in whilst I'm waiting for my order :)
For now, I'll just stick with the cheaper Tacima Power Conditioner since I'm slightly over budget on the system now, and take a look at your recommended options at a later date. A preliminary look seems to show that I can't get everything in the UK, though, so it might be tricky!
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The best stuff is 63 Tin (Sn), 37 Lead (Pb). It is eutectic solder which means that it melts at the lowest temp and goes from liquid to solid at once avoiding phase transisition. 60-40 is fine though. Rosin core of course.
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The best stuff is 63 Tin (Sn), 37 Lead (Pb). It is eutectic solder which means that it melts at the lowest temp and goes from liquid to solid at once avoiding phase transisition. 60-40 is fine though. Rosin core of course.
So something like this would suffice? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/63-Tin-37-Lead-Rosin-Core-Solder-Soldering-Wire-Reel-0-3mm-/350657833849
Should I buy a couple of reels (37g each) to make sure I have some spare?
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Yeah, that will work. It's kinds thin though, would be great for PC boards, but you would be really feeding it into lugs.
You could go .5 to .7 mm
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One reel will let you know that you can do it. It should cover two kits easily.
What you linked is not eutectic, as Mike above mentions. Eutectic makes good solder joints easier.
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One reel will let you know that you can do it. It should cover two kits easily.
What you linked is not eutectic, as Mike above mentions. Eutectic makes good solder joints easier.
Thank you for all of your replies. I've done a bit of a google but I can't find why that's not eutectic? From my research 63/37 is eutectic? Is there's a specific property of the one I linked that makes it not eutectic?
I will, however, find some thicker solder, since I thought it might be too thin, and that was confirmed :)
Thanks again for all your help!
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It is the ratio 63/37, that makes it the eutectic alloy. BTW its personal preference but I like thin solder for electronic work...John
edit, the stuff you posted IS thin, the stuff I like is .7mm
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It is the ratio 63/37, that makes it the eutectic alloy. BTW its personal preference but I like thin solder for electronic work...John
edit, the stuff you posted IS thin, the stuff I like is .7mm
So, the linked solder is eutectic? I might buy a few different thicknesses and see what I prefer :) Some might come in useful is different part so the build?
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Joseph,
I was going by the auction. Usually if it is eutectic it says so. I have seen a link which calls out all the solder percentages that are eutectic. I couldn't find it. So let's assume it is.
As I said, Eutectic makes good solder joints easier. It doesn't in any way mean a non-euctectic solder makes bad solder joints.
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Yes, its the alloy, and yes get a few sizes. Here is one for less then, 2 lb (sorry don't have the symbol handy)...John
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/63-37-Tin-Lead-0-8mm-Rosin-Core-Flux-Solder-Soldering-Wire-Reel/400490999447?rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D18216%26meid%3D2130945952500350899%26pid%3D100005%26prg%3D8342%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D5%26sd%3D350657833849%26
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Sorry to resurrect an old thread. I just thought I'd run over my shopping list since my order has been dispatched and should be here soon!
It turned out my Dad's Soldering Iron wasn't suitable, so I also have to buy one now.
15W Solder w/ stand (http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/soldering-iron-kits/7683573/)
63/37 0.8mm Solder (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/63-37-Tin-Lead-0-8mm-Rosin-Core-Flux-Solder-Soldering-Wire-Reel/400490999447?rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D18216%26meid%3D2130945952500350899%26pid%3D100005%26prg%3D8342%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D5%26sd%3D350657833849%26)
Desoldering Wick (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2mm-Solder-wick-Desoldering-braid-rosin-flux-coated-/140899921131)
I'm also hoping to pick up a test PCB board (with just a bunch of holes in) and some resistors/capacitors and practice a bit of soldering before I start on the S.E.X., along with some other width solder, just to see if I prefer one size over the other.
Any last advice before I stop bothering you guys?
Thanks for all the advice and help, everyone!
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15 Watts is kind of low. You would have to leave the iron terminals, tube pins and circuit board traces for quite a while to get a good solder joint. You want to melt the solder, count to three after it melts to let the two pieces of metal bond to the solder and then remove the iron.
Maybe something like this where you can adjust the heat? $39.99 on sale:
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/WELLER-WLC100-/21-3475
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Forty bucks for a WLC100?
Buy it - :)
I have been using mine for 10 years now and paid $60 for it. It's adjustable for low heat for PC boards and if you crank it all the way up you have enough heat to solder ground lugs screwed to the aluminum chassis plate.
Great tool!
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15 Watts is kind of low. You would have to leave the iron terminals, tube pins and circuit board traces for quite a while to get a good solder joint. You want to melt the solder, count to three after it melts to let the two pieces of metal bond to the solder and then remove the iron.
Maybe something like this where you can adjust the heat? $39.99 on sale:
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/WELLER-WLC100-/21-3475
As great of a deal (and a great piece of kit), I'm in the UK, and I can't even find that for sale over here. There's on on eBay, but it's about $85 when you add on shipping/import taxes.
I was worried about the low wattage, though, so thanks for pointing that out!
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I looked at your link. Then searched the site for a more powerful iron. None of them come out and say what power they are.
I suspect that the Weller From MCM would be really expensive delivered to the UK. But it would be worth your time to check. The exchange rate should help.
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Really cheap option is one of these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Variable-Temperature-Soldering-Station-Iron-Kit-NEW-/120730956097?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item1c1c203141 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Variable-Temperature-Soldering-Station-Iron-Kit-NEW-/120730956097?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item1c1c203141) i bought one recently and really cant fault it. Will produce more heat than you know what to do with (50w), i've used it for everything from SMD circuit boards to unsoldering transformers/inductors from PCB's with 1/4" thick solder tracks. It also uses removable tips which are cheap should you need to replace them. With a large wedge tip it would be perfect for assembling a Crack IMO.
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I did look at MCM, but they don't seem to ship the UK. It seems hard to find these sorts of supplies over here. Maybe there's some secret store in unaware of, but either way, I'm not having too much luck.
Really cheap option is one of these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Variable-Temperature-Soldering-Station-Iron-Kit-NEW-/120730956097?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item1c1c203141 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Variable-Temperature-Soldering-Station-Iron-Kit-NEW-/120730956097?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item1c1c203141) i bought one recently and really cant fault it. Will produce more heat than you know what to do with (50w), i've used it for everything from SMD circuit boards to unsoldering transformers/inductors from PCB's with 1/4" thick solder tracks. It also uses removable tips which are cheap should you need to replace them. With a large wedge tip it would be perfect for assembling a Crack IMO.
This, especially for the price, looks really good. I think it might worth ordering that, the other pieces I linked above, and then just having a go with it to see how it is.
Again, thank you everyone for your help. No one has yet made me feel stupid or been unhelpful. Such an amazing community.
Quick edit: Is it worth me a getting a multimeter for the sake of testing?
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Joseph,
There were, back a decade ago when I joined, a few Bottleheads in and around London. One, Gaspode, lived in Windsor.
I don't know if there are any Bottleheads active now in that area. Maybe you could post in the General folder asking for Bottleheads near you, or just in the 240V/50 Hz areas who can help you.
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I live in Switzerland. DIY is not that much in fashion, so I order a lot here: http://www.hificollective.co.uk/
Michael
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Only proper supplier we have in Ireland is Radionics radionics.rs-online.com (http://radionics.rs-online.com) , but for a majority of items they dont list i use Mouser and pay the $40 shipping charge. You do get free shipping if you buy over $40 worth of parts so i tend to build up a big list of parts i need and order in batches. Its a dangerous site to browse as you can easily end up with basket bloat.
I have also used Hificollective for audio bits and bobs http://www.hificollective.co.uk/ (http://www.hificollective.co.uk/) ,
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I've taken a look over the various sites, but ended up finding something on Amazon through one the "recommended" sections.
If I don't get the cheaper one (from above: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Variable-Temperature-Soldering-Station-Iron-Kit-NEW-/120730956097?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item1c1c203141), I might get this (more expensive) one on Amazon: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B004X25LW8/ref=s9_simh_gw_p60_d2_i3?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=1PZ994K76YKDAKCQCP2R&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=430153987&pf_rd_i=468294#productDetails
I've ordered the solder and the desoldering wick for now.
Again, on the multimeter, how's this? http://www.amazon.co.uk/Compact-Digital-Multitester-With-Diode/dp/B000L0RINQ/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1383599535&sr=8-2&keywords=multimeter It looks the same to the one I used in Physics, and should be useful for debugging?
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The upscale soldering station looks impressive. I would lean toward that one.
The meter should do you. A meter is a must for checking out the kit before turning it on. Then you need voltage measurements when you turn it on. So, you really can't do without one.
If you decide to go further with this hobby I always recommend a used Fluke meter. If it is being sold for parts, you don't want it. If it says working it is a good one. But first you need to decide if this is for you. Most guys catch the bug.
Good luck!
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How about Maplin, I know they are a big parts suppler to the U.K. Don't know if they sell tools though...John
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Right, I'll order the cheaper multimeter, the more expensive soldering iron (I'll hold off a day or 2, just in case).
Thanks for the multimeter recommendation. They're a little expensive, but I'm sure I'll get in to it more soon so I'll keep an eye out :)
I originally looked at Maplin, but their website is crap (as are most, by the looks of it), so I kind of gave up.
On the original topic: the S.E.X. Is there a way I can have 2 phono inputs to the S.E.X.? I'd like to have the options of having my PC soundcard and my turntable. No worries if not; it's just a convenience thing.
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That solder station looks like a bargain, just be sure to pick up some spare tips, i tend to use a 2mm wedge tip for almost everything.
I was never a fan of Maplin, never have a great stock and the prices are always over inflated. Amazon or ebay are usually a better option.
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That solder station looks like a bargain, just be sure to pick up some spare tips, i tend to use a 2mm wedge tip for almost everything.
I was never a fan of Maplin, never have a great stock and the prices are always over inflated. Amazon or ebay are usually a better option.
Yeh, the more I look, the better that deal looks. I was looking at extra tips, but I'm not 100% which to buy that will fit, so I'm going to either wait until I get it and measure/whatever to figure it out, or do a little research.
I'm also not much of a fan of Maplin for the same reasons. Ironically, this is sold by Maplin, on Amazon. Generally, yes, it seems Amazon or eBay are the best over in the UK.
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I just have to say that I've always had very good service from hificollective, especially for a guy on the other side of the pond.
Also in the UK you can find a brand of soldering station called Soloman (spellig?) that is very good. I had one for the longest time and really liked it.
HTH,
Jim
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I just have to say that I've always had very good service from hificollective, especially for a guy on the other side of the pond.
Also in the UK you can find a brand of soldering station called Soloman (spellig?) that is very good. I had one for the longest time and really liked it.
HTH,
Jim
I took a look at Solomon, but I can't find where to buy these easily in the UK, so for now, I'll go with the station linked above.
Another thing I've thought of (it's starting to build up now!): Will I need a wirestripper? I've not added that to my shopping list yet
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Hi JosephDuffy,
A wire stripper is very handy, and I'd guess I'm not the only one here that has a few styles in their tool kit. I have the automatic type (see link: http://www.datacomtools.com/store/45-292.html) which is handy for a lot of applications, plus a couple of lower tech versions (kind of like this one - notched jaws w/ some kind of diameter adjustment - http://www.datacomtools.com/images4/ideal/larger/45-101.jpg).
Some types work better with certain types of wire than others, though I do as much as I can with the automatic type.
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I've bought a couple of different wire strippers and found most of them fairly useless for anything but heavy duty mains cable. They either mess up the insulation, or they break strands on multicore cable. A simple box cutter blade has proved far more reliable for me, and creates a cleaner cut. Unless your doing large quantitys of the same cable type and buying a decent quality tool they are not worth the effort imo.
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Joseph,
Look in the Tech Tools folder. The second sticky down is a list of necessary tools for building a new kit. Then it is followed by fun tools to have that are also useful.
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Hi all,
Late to the party here, but I have a question to clarify amp/headphone pairing before buying my step-up kit. I built my first kit, the Crack with Speedball, 6 weeks ago. I love it so much, that I now also want to drive loudspeakers with a tube amp. I'm trying to decide whether I should sell my Crack to a friend so I can upgrade to an S.E.X. 2.1, or complicate my home setup with two amps, the Crack plus a dedicated loudspeaker amp.
I use Sennheiser HD600s. It's clear to me that the Crack is designed for high-impedance cans, whereas the S.E.X. is always described as "versatile." What's not clear to me is: will the S.E.X. be versatile enough to drive my HD600s, or do I need to get lower-impedance headphones?
(Note, I've scanned the forums, and I really got a lot out of Loquah's detailed comparison on Head Fi! Thanks to this community for being so helpful and inclusive!)
Derek
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I worked with HD600s to determine the headphone playback character of the S.E.X. just like I used HD600s to judge the Crack's performance. Loquah's impressions match mine regarding the differences between the amps. S.E.X.2.1 is a very good headphone amp. I am using one at my desk with AKG K1000s.
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Hi all,
Late to the party here, but I have a question to clarify amp/headphone pairing before buying my step-up kit. I built my first kit, the Crack with Speedball, 6 weeks ago. I love it so much, that I now also want to drive loudspeakers with a tube amp. I'm trying to decide whether I should sell my Crack to a friend so I can upgrade to an S.E.X. 2.1, or complicate my home setup with two amps, the Crack plus a dedicated loudspeaker amp.
I use Sennheiser HD600s. It's clear to me that the Crack is designed for high-impedance cans, whereas the S.E.X. is always described as "versatile." What's not clear to me is: will the S.E.X. be versatile enough to drive my HD600s, or do I need to get lower-impedance headphones?
(Note, I've scanned the forums, and I really got a lot out of Loquah's detailed comparison on Head Fi! Thanks to this community for being so helpful and inclusive!)
Derek
Been away for a while, but just saw this...
The S.E.X. will be a great match with the HD600s. It's a brighter, more spacious presentation than the Crack so don't expect as much of a seductive, lush sound as people talk about from the Crack, but it will also drive basically any normal headphone (including most orthos) you can throw at it. FWIW the S.E.X. is still with me, but the Crack has officially been replaced by the Mainline - the S.E.X. is just too good to part with, even with the Mainline in house.
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Oh man, that makes things complicated! :-)
I had just decided to build a Steremour and stick with the Crack + Speedball as my headphone amp: two amps is always better than one, right? One great loudspeaker amp and one great headphone amp.
On the other hand, I think this is just an intermediate step, with a Mainline project in my future, maybe a year from now...
Derek
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I haven't tried the Steremour because I have active B&O speakers, but I would imaging the Steremour + Mainline combo would be the ultimate combination for both speaker and headphone listening. As good as the S.E.X. is, the Mainline is better.
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Agreed! My Steremour shipped today, so I'll be enjoying that plus my Crack for now. Some day in the future that Mainline will be entering my household I'm sure!