Bottlehead Forum
Bottlehead Kits => Crack => Topic started by: antoineestephan on October 19, 2013, 02:27:14 AM
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Hi
I got the kit when it was on sale on July 14th, it took about 1 1/2 months to get here to Lebanon and clear customs, then kept it for about a month in my closet, I was too overwhelmed with the idea of building and soldering, I'm all thumbs!!
Eventually I did it in a couple of nights, and WOW, what a joy it was. The whole process was event less, just a couple of glitches though:
1- I have forgotten to install a resistor, did that no problem.
2- I found the hole for the A4 pin was full with solder and couldn't get the 12AU7 in, it eventually worked.
And OMG, the resistance and the voltage checks were alright
Only the voltage on the headphone TRS jack rose to about 12V before returning to 0.
So I started to listen, my PC was running JRiver, outputting to HRT Music Streamer HD, to the crack, to my HD650, what a Bliss, the only trouble was those sleepless nights.
At first I decided I'd use it for a couple of months without upgrading, but what do you know, I started to itch.
Ok I'll just assemble the modules and will not install them, I put them in the closet for a couple of days, and guess what, the itch again.
Yeah you guessed I installed them yesterday, and came the time for the voltage check, even though everything seemed in order, when checking the voltage of the 9 pin socket I noticed that one of the two LEDs was on and off, then it went completely off.
And so I've lost the right channel.
Here is my voltage check:
T1. 150???? A1. 99???
T2. 154. A2. 0
T3. 0. A3. 1.54
T4. 154. A4. 0
T5. 95?? A5. 0
T6. 0. A6. 160????
T7. 148??? A7. 0
T8. 0. A8. 13.7????
T9. 113. A9. 0
T10-11-12. 0-0-0
T13. 154. B1. 150????
T14. 0. B2. 154
T15. 172. B3. 148?????
T19. 67. B4. 98?
T20. 0. B5. 154
B6. 113
B7-B8. 0-0
So guys, I obviously need help, please, I'd be much obliged.
Good day to you all.
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Make sure the original connections on Terminals T1-T5 and T6-10 are intact. Those could get damanged when you removed the big resistors. Also, since this issue just started after the Speedball, make sure everything is correct. Check transistors are in right place and orientation. Check resistors are correct value. LEDs in correct orientation, small boards to the silver band on right side, big board silver band facing outside. Check all the wires, make sure they are in correct place, I had one in wrong location and it gave me similar symptoms.
Hope you find the cause of your issues.
Steph
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Do both the LED's glow on the 9 pin socket?
Your high voltage at T1 tells us that one of the smaller green PC boards is not functioning properly. If both LED's glow on the 9 pin socket, that will be a helpful clue as to what might be happening.
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Make sure the original connections on Terminals T1-T5 and T6-10 are intact. Those could get damanged when you removed the big resistors. Also, since this issue just started after the Speedball, make sure everything is correct. Check transistors are in right place and orientation. Check resistors are correct value. LEDs in correct orientation, small boards to the silver band on right side, big board silver band facing outside. Check all the wires, make sure they are in correct place, I had one in wrong location and it gave me similar symptoms.
Hope you find the cause of your issues.
Steph
Thank you Steph will do that as soon as I get home this evening, I doubt because I think I did check, any way I'll double check. Thanks for responding.
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Do both the LED's glow on the 9 pin socket?
Your high voltage at T1 tells us that one of the smaller green PC boards is not functioning properly. If both LED's glow on the 9 pin socket, that will be a helpful clue as to what might be happening.
Thank you PB, but not both LEDs on the 9 pin socket are glowing, actually one of them went out when I was doing the voltage check, but my readings were already off. No sound is coming off the right channel. I will recheck and report.
Actually the LEDs on the three boards are glowing, the big one is shinier, the small ones are dimmer, even though all three are dimmer than those on the 9 pin socket.
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If A8 is indeed 13.7V, then the PC board feeding T5 isn't really letting any current through. I would remove it, double check that it has 2N2907 and MJE350 transistors, then resolder all the joints.
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I double checked the PC board and everything looks in order, but the led attached to A8 is not lighting. And one more thing I have T19 : 65V instead of 0, and T20: 0V instead of 206.
Does the installation of the speedball change the values of T19 and T20? Would change the values of the power supply? I'm almost ignorant you know, so please be patient.
Because if you check the Crack manual 0V and 206V should be the values of T20 and T21, not those of T19 and T20!
Regards
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Does the installation of the speedball change the values of T19 and T20? Would change the values of the power supply? I'm almost ignorant you know, so please be patient.
Regards
No, it doesn't, and the information you initially posted was enough for us to know that your power supply is functioning perfectly. I'd focus on getting the voltage at T5 to be correct.
The manual states that T20 is supposed to be 0V. The manual does not give a voltage value for T19.
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Hi
I just got back from work I took out all the speedball boards and put back the resistors, the led connecting to A8 is done, it's not lighting at all, and again no right channel!!!
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Is it possible you shorted it out while doing voltage check? It happens to a lot of people.
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No, please do not look at an LED that doesn't light and just pronounce it dead. When one of our LED's dies, it will be very obvious.
Can you try swapping the two small PC boards to see if the high voltage changes terminals?
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Can you try swapping the two small PC boards to see if the high voltage changes terminals?
Really sorry for the trouble, but I do need help!
As I said earlier I took off the speedball boards and wires, I reinstalled the old resistors, the A8 led didn't glow and I did the readings, the voltages were off in the same problem spots, but I didn't write down the results, and no right channel.
Then I reinstalled the little PC boards, and swapped the right one to the left and vice versa, and installed the big board, all that after taking out the old speedball wires, and put new wires in their place. Still A8 led no light.
I then did the voltage readings, they are still the same, give or take a few % below or above what I had earlier! the problem spots remained the same.
Really hope I'm not giving you a headache.
Let me repeat that when taking the readings, after the first time I installed the speedball, I saw the A8 led go off then on several times then it went completely off. That's why I'm suspecting the A8 led is gone.
Sorry for the trouble
Antoine
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Are both halves of the tube glowing? How is the joint at A7? A6?
The LED won't light if no current is drawn through it, which is potentially from a damaged lead, but can have a myriad of other (more likely) sources.
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You haven't mentioned if you tried reflowing the solder connections on the A8 LED. That would be the most obvious thing to try at this point.
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Stupid me
I already did wet the solder of both LEDs in the 9 pin socket, but I said I may try once more, no luck.
So the genius struck, how about I swap the LEDs and see if it was the LED that's the culprit or was it not getting electrical current.
First I tried with the bad one, I got one leg out OK, then trying to get the other one out, I broke it..
I didn't stop at this point, no, I'll be extra careful and take out the good LED from A3 and put it in A8 and see what happens, now with being extra careful I broke the other LED.
I'm sad very sad, I'll have to go to work now, and contemplate how silly I've been
By the way PB, I read somewhere on this forum you advising someone who changed one tube to "6SN7" I think, to replace those little LEDs with resistors, to change the bias for the tube, can you please advise me of some resistors that I can put in place of the LEDs, even if not with optimal results, so I can continue troubleshooting and then listening to my crack.
You may be laughing at me now, but I'm almost crying.
Good day you all, you're a marvelous community.
Antoine
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Hi again
Please don't give up on me guys, I need help
I went and bought some ordinary red LEDs and replaced my dead ones, and guess what, both my LEDs lit up.
I started with voltage readings, T1 was 88V T5 was in the 90s, I didn't write it down but when I touched the LED at A8 it went off immediately.
So I started retracing every wire in my crack, and I noticed that I had contact between A7 (red wire) and the ground, which struck me as odd, even though I have exactly followed the manual, I double checked.
I retraced backwards steps and found that the red wire from B8 and A7 is connected to terminal 4 on the transformer which is the 0V, and this same terminal is connected to T14 (ground), which sounded odd to me, red wire and black wire on the same terminal.
Need help please
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You can't replace the LEDs with just normal ones.
The LEDS are HLPM 6000. At least it seems you probably found your issue. Get some replacement LEDs (assuming they are in fact dead), fix the A7 connection and try again.
I don't have the manual with me but from memory T14 does have a red and a black wire connected to it. I inquired about it and basically it is black because they don't have teflon white wires so they chose black over red.
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Now my readings are as follows
T1. 88, T2. 149, T3. 0, T4. 152, t5. 94, T6. 0, t7. 106, t8. 0, t9. 110, t10. 0, t11. 0, t12. 0, t13. 155, t14. 0, t15. 173, t20 0, t21. 192
A1. 93, A2. 0, A3. 1.65, A4&A5. 0, A6. 87, A7. 0, A8. 1.65, A9. 0
B1. 87, B2. 152, B3. 104, B4. 93, B5. 154, B6. 109, B7. 0, B8. 0.
Now these are much better readings, especially since they were not done with the regular LEDs, the worst readings I got now probably are T5 94V instead of 75, and B4 93V instead of 75.
Any thoughts.
And please chip in don't give up on me, I'm getting better.
Nice day all!
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You can't replace the LEDs with just normal ones.
The LEDS are HLPM 6000. At least it seems you probably found your issue. Get some replacement LEDs (assuming they are in fact dead), fix the A7 connection and try again.
I don't have the manual with me but from memory T14 does have a red and a black wire connected to it. I inquired about it and basically it is black because they don't have teflon white wires so they chose black over red.
Thanks, I know that but I couldn't find any, and I found a post where PB said that "he thought any red LED would work, although he wasn't sure how much impact on sound quality it would have"
And since I live in Lebanon and I have to order from USA, that means also about a month to wait, so I had to try.
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Grab some generic Red LEDs to troubleshoot. Then order some HLMP 6000s to finish the project. Be certain not to button up anything you will need to pull out when you get your HLMP 6000s. The trick with them is the steady voltage drop with differing voltages across them.
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That's exactly what I did, now my crack is working wonderful, if the original LEDs would be an improvement in sound quality, oh! wow how sweet can it get?
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The LED's on the 9 pin socket can be changed to resistors for troubleshooting. This is not the case for any other LED's in the amp, if you use resistors on the PC boards in place of the LED's, the boards will not work.
470 Ohm resistors can be used for the 9 pin socket LED's. If you find a value in the range of 450-500 Ohms, you'll be OK. Wattage isn't exactly important, 2/100 of a Watt is sufficient.
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The LED's on the 9 pin socket can be changed to resistors for troubleshooting. This is not the case for any other LED's in the amp, if you use resistors on the PC boards in place of the LED's, the boards will not work.
470 Ohm resistors can be used for the 9 pin socket LED's. If you find a value in the range of 450-500 Ohms, you'll be OK. Wattage isn't exactly important, 2/100 of a Watt is sufficient.
Hi,
I just replaced my broken LEDs with ordinary generic red LEDs, now my crack with speedball is actually working, very good, and the sound quality is there, if replacing the generic LEDs with HLMP6000s would still improve the sound quality I'd be even happier.
Just do you think that I could harm my amp running it like this?
Thanks
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I would at least get some 470ohm resistors, they should be easy to find.
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If it works, don't fix it.
Get the proper parts and fix it the right way.
Measure the voltage, if it's near 1.5 it's fine.
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It's actually working ok I only hear the slightest hiss when listening at really low low levels. Something like the hiss you would hear on tape players, the hiss doesn't go higher with more volume, other than that everything is fine.
The voltages I got are 1.65V at both A3 and A8, both well within the 15% rule, so I think I'm ok for now.
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1.65V is a little high. The actual voltage across the HLMP-6000 is very, very close to 1.57V (which is a big part of why we use them). Having 1.65V there won't hurt if your T1/T5 voltages are OK. If you used those on the Speedball PC boards, however, things would get a little out of whack.
-PB
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Order up the correct parts and solder them in at your leisure. When you are nice and relaxed and not thinking about 10 zillion other things. Those cathode diodes are the hardest part of the kit. Getting those tiny parts into that tiny space between the center and the outer pins.
Take your time and do it right. Those teensy-weensy parts are hardest parts I have dealt with yet. One sprung out on me when I was building mine and hit the floor. I thought I'd be ordering another because I couldn't find it. Looked just like all the other itty-bitty bits of insulation laying there too. Finally found it. Un-crushed by the chair wheels or my shoes - :)
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1.65V is a little high. The actual voltage across the HLMP-6000 is very, very close to 1.57V (which is a big part of why we use them). Having 1.65V there won't hurt if your T1/T5 voltages are OK. If you used those on the Speedball PC boards, however, things would get a little out of whack.
-PB
My T1 reads 88V, and T5 94V, so they seem to be on the high side.
But I'm using my crack with speedball and it's sounding great with the Westinghouse 12AU7 that came with it. But I'm hearing an audible low level hiss with a newly bought russian Genalex, that was supposed to be an upgrade, it's like the hiss that you could hear on cassette tarp decks, for those who remember them.
Anyway would I harm anything inside my crack if I continue to use it this way, should I stop using it until I replace my LEDs?
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88V and 94V isn't too far off, I'd say you're OK.