Bottlehead Forum
Bottlehead Kits => Crack => Topic started by: Bimbleton on November 14, 2013, 01:59:48 PM
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Hi,
First-time builder. Every time I solder, the solder balls up on the remaining solder line and doesn't stick to the wire. Furthermore, the solder does not melt if I hold the soldering-tip to the wire -- it only melts if I directly stick the solder onto the tip. I have soldered the first four joints by much trial and error, but I am not happy with them (they don't look flat, but lumpy and shiny). I'm using a cheapo Stahl Soldering station with temperature set to maximum (500 degrees); for solder using Kester 60/40 tin-lead.
-I have tried cleaning the tip.
-I have tried tinning the tip.
-I have tried yelling at the tip.
-I have watched the InnerFidelity video on soldering.
Please, please someone help! And if anyone has a moment, could someone post a close-up shot of what a properly soldered connection should look like?
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If that is 500 degrees F the iron is not hot enough. If 500 degrees C that is more than enough, but it may just be that the iron is too small and can't pump enough heat into the material you are trying to solder. We recommend at least a 30W iron and preferably 40W.
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It is 500 degrees Celsius. I'm going to try setting the temperature lower, somewhere around 350 Celsius, see if that works.
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If the iron isn't getting the joint hot enough lowering the tip temp is not going to help, it's going to be worse. What is the wattage rating of the iron?
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5-40W.
Also, here is another issue! My transformer thing has a sticker that reads "240V Bottlehead PT-3". Does that mean it's a 240V transformer and shouldn't be used in the US?
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That Stahl is a piece of crap. I know, I bought one. Throw it inna trash and buy a Weller WLC100, the item it attempts to copy but fails misarably at.
I still can't believe how bad it is. They really cheaped out. Low heat, crappy tips, junk. That's why it's so cheap. A soldering station for $17? There is a reason for that.
Garbage.
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240 v is not for use in the US. I'm gonna take a shot in the dark and guess you bought your Crack from Massdrop. True?
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Goddammit. Well at least I stopped after soldering just a couple of joints.
Doc, what do I do if I've got the wrong part? Can I send in the old one and get it replaced?
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Yes, contact Eileen at queen at bottlehead dot com or call her at 206-451-4275 and she can help you get the transformer exchanged. We are sorry about the mix up. The shipping boxes were very clearly marked with the power transformer designation when they left here, as we were nervous about their shipment to end users being handled by a middle man. Apparently that was not 100% effective, and we will be sticking to direct sales in the future.
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Regarding the soldering iron and related issues, one of the best smartest things you could do for yourself and your enjoyment level would be to buy a good soldering iron/station. I went through 3 el-cheapos (TM) before I finally listened to the recommendations of others on this forum and I can't tell you how happy it made me to stop having the exact issues you describe on soldering. I bought a Hakko FX888D, but I suspect there are many others just as good or better But I no longer have that issue where I feel like I'm in a magic shop and it's "fake solder" that someone slipped me as a joke.
Good luck.
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Goshdarnit I know it all sucks, but Mike is of course spot on.. You just cannot scrimp on your kit building materials.. especially the iron, the most important thing.. It always costs you more in the long run and makes your experience an absolute PITA "one off, never doing it again type thing"... or with the proper equipment, it can be a real joy and now you have the equipment to do more kits etc...
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I've been using Radio Shack 30 and 40 watt irons. They're around $8 and have replaceable tips. Yeah, they're not the best but they get the job done if you know what you're doing. I use the 30 watt iron for pcbs and the 40 watt for pretty much everything else. I tend to replace the 40 watt irons every couple of years.
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I've been using Radio Shack 30 and 40 watt irons. They're around $8 and have replaceable tips. Yeah, they're not the best but they get the job done if you know what you're doing.
I used these for years before snagging a station. They aren't awesome, but they are totally adequate.
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I can't say that I think much of the RS irons but they will get the job done. Unless they have changed since I last used one, figure on replacing the tip after each project.
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figure on replacing the tip after each project.
That's a good point, when I used them, I'd generally just buy a whole new iron each time. (The iron was $1 more than just the tip IIRC)
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Regarding the soldering iron and related issues, one of the best smartest things you could do for yourself and your enjoyment level would be to buy a good soldering iron/station. I went through 3 el-cheapos (TM) before I finally listened to the recommendations of others on this forum and I can't tell you how happy it made me to stop having the exact issues you describe on soldering. I bought a Hakko FX888D, but I suspect there are many others just as good or better But I no longer have that issue where I feel like I'm in a magic shop and it's "fake solder" that someone slipped me as a joke.
Good luck.
+1 for the FX-888D it made the project very enjoyable for me.
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I went through 3 crappy Chinese soldering stations before also moving to a legit Hakko FX888D (watch out for fakes that look very similar). The Hakko's worth every cent, don't hesitate and needlessly create frustration by using the wrong tools for the job. :)
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I just finished a Crack kit with a Wahl rechargeable and I like it a lot. It heats up quickly and so forth but the main reason is because the distance from tip to handle is much less and for old guys like me with less than rock steady hands it works much better...my two $.01..
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I used those Radio Shack irons. They do indeed get the job done. But I bought a used Weller off of ebay that looked like it had been used for years before I got it. Still going strong and a wonderful soldering iron and just works well. I don't know about Hakko, but Grainger and I have been using Weller (he for a lot longer) and they are just top notch and worth the expense.
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It looks like a lot of people can get by with the Radioshack soldering iron, which makes me sad because my 40W Stahl soldering station should be just as good, if not better! As a grad student, I wanted to build my crack on a low budget. It's frustrating... Could it be that I'm soldering incorrectly? Is there some cleaning issue that makes the solder "ball up"?
On the plus side, customer service at Bottlehead couldn't be better. Already got a 120V PT on the way, should be arriving soon. Thanks Doc and Queen Eileen!
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We used the cheapo Stahl SSVT under a different guise for a S.E.X. kit building class ten year ago, one for each student. They were pretty bad, as I recall I had to pull out one of my bigass Wellers to help the guys solder some of the bigger stuff like binding posts.
Not that this is much help but I had the impression that a lot of the problem was that the tip just didn't transfer heat very well. I don't know if there are any aftermarket tips for that iron that might be better.
Oh yeah, I seem to recall that the black plastic ring around the iron holder is held against a spring and will probably fly off at some point. Seems like we had 'em popping off a lot of the stations over towards the end of the class.
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Search for "weller" on Amazon and pick. my first iron was for this project and I got the WES51. I couldn't be happier and I'm hooked on soldering.
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Right, and how much did it cost you?? a thousand dollars??
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This is a good iron, has adjustable heat and on sale for thiry-five bucks. I've been using mine now for 7 years.
http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/weller/solder/wlc100.htm?ref=gbase&gclid=CN2A8ZX2_boCFQpgMgodYV8ANg
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Exactly... thank you Mike... For the sake of being flamed by whoever wants to.... GUYS.... we are talking about LITTLE money here...WHY would you NOT want to spend just a little more money on quality ($30 more) and have an awesome experience... ??? And , yes, I was in college (7 years, driving a white pinto wagon dubbed :"the urban assault vehicle" because a guy hit me, "his fault", and I spent the insurance money on books instead of fixing the car).. BUT I still would have bought a proper Soldering station to do my Bottlehead kits if they would have existed at the time... BECAUSE??? I want a good experience and not a pain in the ass load of BS that I would get with a what?? 10? 15? dollar product?? I only say this because I care about your happiness.... sorry
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This is an interesting philosophical point. Because we put out inexpensive kits there can be a hope that you can get what you want from them for only the price of the kit. But that's not realistic. You do have to budget for tools too. Buying tools for that first kit that can seem to throw the budget out of kilter, and it's hard to know if one will like the process enough to keep building kits.
The problem is just as we are finding here. If the tools aren't good enough the experience can become somewhat frustrating. So my advice is if you can't borrow a good solder station buy a good iron with the idea that being a good one it will be easy to sell if you decide kit building isn't your thang. That way it won't be the frustration of using crappy tools that influences your decision about whether kit building is fun or not.
For anyone local starting on their first kit (I know this is just a small fraction of our customers) we would be happy to have you stop by for a free soldering lesson.
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Perfectly said, Inexpensive kits BUT with MAXIMUM value....... I am NOT being condescending nor am I a know it all.. But, I will bet that audiophiles will spend MORE on caps and cables, isolation feet etc... than a GREAT quality soldering station which is the FIRST line of quality sound assurance... DOC himself already posted a sticky regarding the importance of QUALITY solder joints in the assurance of the BEST sound reproduction possible... PJ painstakingly designed the circuits for maximum sound quality and we are going to "buzz" them up with a 10 buck POS?..... OR spend maybe 35 to 50 dollars (only) on a superb bit of iron ensuring we get the MAXIMUM value out of PJ and DOC"S designs for YOUR listening pleasure????.... I dont know, to me , it is a no brainer.... And I, of course, mean NO disrespect to ANY of you who , in the beginning, went the cheap route.. not in the least.. I have done so myself in the past....and have learned the error of my ways...
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Following Docs advice made all the difference in the world for me. I didn't know how to solder and certainly didn't have the tools. Pairing up with Grainger, an experienced electrical engineer (though that depth of experience certainly isn't necessary) who has the patience of a saint and a really cool and well stocked workroom made my first build a lot of fun and got me hooked.