Bottlehead Forum
Bottlehead Kits => Crack => Topic started by: squirreldude on December 09, 2013, 01:35:21 PM
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Hello all,
I just finished a lot of troubleshooting and got my crack powered up for the first time! I was admiring it for nearly 20 seconds before the pretty, orange glow of the power tube turned into a bright blast. Something in the tube popped and I unplugged the thing before there was too much damage. The fuse is fine but I'm not sure how I should proceed. Should I scrap the tube now? Does this qualify for a replacement? How could I go about testing the 6080 with my multimeter to see if it really is toast? I don't have any other tubes, so I'm dead in the water for now.
Thanks,
Karl
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We don't know yet if the tube was bad or something was miswired that caused the tube to arc. We can send another tube ([email protected]), but go back and do your resistance measurements again to see if anything else was damaged before you plug another tube in.
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Wow, Doc I shouldn't be surprised but you called it. I ran the resistance checks again and discovered there is something else going on in addition to the blown tube. The unit checked out fine before I powered up, but now I'm not reading anything at terminals 1, 2, 4, and 5. I'll attach the full resistance check below and a picture of the setup. What do you figure it could be? I'll have to add it to my replacement parts order before that ships.
Note that I have installed the headphone jack mod in the sticky of this crack forum. I also have jumpers between terminals 22, 17, and 11 so all these spots are properly grounded (due to powder coating). Correct me if this is a mistake, but I thought they should all be connected by the bare transformer bell if it weren't powder coated.
Terminal Manual Mine
1 * N/A
2 * N/A
3 0 ohms 0.1 ohms
4 * N/A
5 * N/A
6 2.4K ohms 0.1 ohms
7 2.9K ohms 2.93K ohms
8 0 ohms 0.1 ohms
9 2.9K ohms 2.925K ohms
10 2.4K ohms 0.1 ohms
12 0 ohms 0.0 ohms
13 * ~270K last read at 280K ohms and falling
14 0 ohms 0.1 ohms
20 0 ohms 0.2 ohms
22 0 ohms 0.4 ohms
B3 2.9K ohms 2.93K ohms
B6 2.9K ohms 2.926K ohms
RCA 0 ohms 0.1 ohms
Center Pins 90k-100k 102K ohms and 97K ohms
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Can you run the Crack without the 6080 and do voltage checks? (Just terminals 1-5)
I don't see anything alarming in the resistance checks.
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I just tried some voltage checks without the tube and didn't read anything at all for terminals 1-5.
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Perhaps the fuse popped?
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Nope, the fuse was fine. When I powered up for the voltage check, the input tube up front was glowing. I also tested the terminals on the transformer just to make sure it was really taking power.
I checked it again tonight and noticed some different behavior. I'm reading the proper resistances at terminals 1-5 now and I have some new voltages to report. Remember, these are without the power tube plugged in.
T1: 92.6V
T2: 224.5V
T3: 0
T4: 224.0V
T5: 95.0V
I am wondering if it was just operator error the first time around. Do these look normal? I believe T2 and T3 are unusually high, but does that have something to do with the power tube being unplugged? Let me know if there are some other voltages/resistances you think will be helpful in tracking this issue down.
Thanks
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Well, this is good news! Your power supply is working, and your 12AU7 is working properly.
Yes, your voltages are a little high because the 6080 isn't in there hogging all the current like it normally does.
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Well if that seems right, I'll just hang tight until the fine folk at BH support can get me a tube in the mail. What a bummer, but I hope the tube really was the only problem. I'll report back later.
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Solved the problem. It was the power tube.
I sent an email to bottlehead replacement parts on Monday and haven't heard anything back yet. Should I expect confirmation that they got my request for replacement parts? Luckily, I received an order of other tubes today and they are working so far. There was no arc this time and the voltage checks went fine. I was hearing a lot of static after the amp was on for ~1 minute, but swapping the input tube for another has fixed that issue as well. It might need to be cleaned or broken in, but I'm kind of surprised that both of my stock tubes caused me problems. Oh well, at least it works now!
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A little bit of static can be from a tube with oxidized pins, or a tube that just needs to run for a few hours.
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Solved the problem. It was the power tube.
I sent an email to bottlehead replacement parts on Monday and haven't heard anything back yet. Should I expect confirmation that they got my request for replacement parts? Luckily, I received an order of other tubes today and they are working so far. There was no arc this time and the voltage checks went fine. I was hearing a lot of static after the amp was on for ~1 minute, but swapping the input tube for another has fixed that issue as well. It might need to be cleaned or broken in, but I'm kind of surprised that both of my stock tubes caused me problems. Oh well, at least it works now!
Had the same problem Squirreldude. Nothing when I first powered up, then the power tube powered up but no sound; then the tube blew. Tube looked bad when the kit arrived so I had already ordered a replacement on ebay. Put in a new tube and have been rocking all week. Sent an e--mail to BBC like you but it has been a week with no reply. Looking forward to the Speedball arrival.
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I think I need to correct my previous post. My second input tube started out fine, but has been giving me the same static sound after a few hours of listening. It sounds more like a record scratching than white noise. I've heard it with two sets of RCA cables, different sources, and different headphones too. Should I let the tube run for a while or does it sound like a grounding issue?
Sent an e--mail to BBC like you but it has been a week with no reply. Looking forward to the Speedball arrival.
Glad to see I didn't fall through the cracks alone or something. I have the Speedball sitting on my workbench now but I want to make sure the stock build is in 100% working order before installing the upgrade.
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If two tubes are giving you the same issue, and it happens after the amp has been on some time, this is very likely thermally related, and it would be a good idea to go through and reflow all your solder joints.
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A little bit of static can be from a tube with oxidized pins, or a tube that just needs to run for a few hours.
Paul means to insert and extract the driver tube 10 times. This cleans the tube pins and the socket at the same time.
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Thanks guys, I think we got it. I really didn't want to reheat all of my joints but that's what it took to get rid of the static. I've been listening for almost an hour now and haven't heard it again yet... fingers are crossed hoping it doesn't come back.
I hope the Speedball gives me less trouble now that I've learned better soldering techniques :)
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Unfortunately, I have returned to the crack forum with the same problem as before. Since my last post, I have installed the speedball upgrade, received my replacement 6080 power tube from BH support, and had been functioning well for quite some time. Just today, I started hearing the scratching vinyl sound again. It actually blends in quite well with the distorted, electronic music I listen to. I cannot reproduce the problem, but noticed that when it does happen, the sound is affected by tapping or pushing on the top plate. I hadn't actually tried the replacement power tube up to this point, so I thought I'd roll it in just to see what happens. This tube blew just like the first one. I have popped two 6080 power tubes from BH now, but my new Winged "C" 6AS7G has been working fine for weeks.
I am totally at a loss. I'm pretty sure it's in the power circuit somewhere and it seems like I should check and reheat all my joints. However, I have tried this a couple of times with no success. Now that the speedball is in there, it will be even more of a PITA... Any ideas, or should I send this to someone and have it checked out?
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You can use our repair service and we can look it over for you.
"Blowing" a 6080 tube is pretty tough. They are incredibly rugged beasts that will take quite a beating. It is very odd that the Russian 6AS7G works properly and the others do not.
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Well, let me be more specific and perhaps reiterate my original post. I plugged in the power tube, flipped the on switch, and it slowly lit up for 10 or 20 seconds with no apparent issues. Then, the tube sparked with bright white/blue light and made an audible pop. It's not as dramatic a light bulb bursting, but it's certainly more than just warming up. As I said, it has happened the same way with two different tubes.
Who should I contact for repairs? I am working full time and taking graduate classes for the next few months, so I really don't have the time [or desire] to troubleshoot this further.
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Repair services are available here (http://www.bottlehead.com/store.php/products/repair-service-472).
Also, I just noticed the added black wires on the 6-lug terminal strips. I'd recommend cutting those off.
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Hey, Paul, can I have you clarify what is considered "stock configuration" as far as repairs go? Obviously some of the capacitor pr0n elsewhere in the forum would be exempt, but can I leave the speedball upgrade installed? I have one resistor attached to each RCA jack as well. Would these need to come out?
I hope to redo my voltage and resistances tomorrow after removing those added black wires on the terminal strips. I can't imagine that's the culprit, but it's worth a shot.
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Hey, Paul, can I have you clarify what is considered "stock configuration" as far as repairs go?
Yeah, cap porn gets pulled out. Chokes get pulled out, etc. The Speedball is still considered "Stock".
I hope to redo my voltage and resistances tomorrow after removing those added black wires on the terminal strips. I can't imagine that's the culprit, but it's worth a shot.
You're creating a shorted winding through part of the stack. This is actually kind of a horrible thing to do to a power transformer. (Like running your car on jet fuel)
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I hope to redo my voltage and resistances tomorrow after removing those added black wires on the terminal strips. I can't imagine that's the culprit, but it's worth a shot.
You're creating a shorted winding through part of the stack. This is actually kind of a horrible thing to do to a power transformer. (Like running your car on jet fuel)
Yikes! Well if it's analogous to running your car on jet fuel, it could explain why I keep getting sparks in the power tube. I pulled out the two wires connecting the ends of the terminal strips and did resistance/voltage checks. Everything looks the same as before; still up to spec. The only difference is that terminals 11, 17, and 22 are no longer part of the ground path. They do not give a resistance reading. Thus far, I haven't heard the dreadful noises either ;D. I'll give it a week or two of listening and see if it shows up sometime.
I've been thinking about why the "shorted winding" problem might not have appeared in the voltage checks I did before. Perhaps you can correct my understanding of tube amps and power transformers. My guess is that the voltage going into the tube was higher than it should have been, but my 6AS7G was working overtime to properly control the outgoing voltages. In contrast, the unusually high voltage was too much for the 6080s and they failed. I wonder why the voltages weren't too high upstream of the tube though. I'd be interested to hear some reasoning from the experts.
Finally, do you think these 6080 tubes are toast? If they are as "incredibly rugged" as you say, is there a chance they could still function?
Voltages
1 78.2
2 180.8
3 0
4 179.2
5 78.9
6 0
7 110.3
8 0
9 107.7
10 0
11 0
12 0
13 180.8
14 0
15 198.8
20 0
21 218
A1 78.4
A2 0
A3 1.5
A4 0
A5 0
A6 77.1
A7 0
A8 1.5
A9 0
B1 77.0
B2 178.5
B3 109.7
B4 78.3
B5 178.2
B6 107.4
B7 0
B8 0
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It looks like you now have a working amplifier.
(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsound.westhost.com%2Fxfmr11-3.gif&hash=c494640faf5c41b7d98bd18d5628bd04424597cb)
If you trace the paths made by your black wires, screws, and transformer cover, you'll discover that they make loops through the transformer stack.
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Just an update to this thread:
This Crack came in for repair, and we found that a little too much solder led to several cold solder joints, whose intermittent connections were causing this issue.
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To further this, often the solution to cold joints is not to add more solder but to pay close attention when you reheat what is already there. Make sure that the solder flows over both parts being soldered together and has a smooth and shiny finish with fillets (i.e. the solder draws into the space between the parts) instead of lumps. If you see a thin line or little blobs of rosin around the edge of the solder joint it might also be in between the wire and the solder, creating a cold joint. A little more heat will help it to reliquify and get the solder in direct contact with the metal.