Bottlehead Forum

Bottlehead Kits => Crack => Topic started by: Isak on May 26, 2014, 10:02:04 AM

Title: Fresh Crack - No sound from left channel.
Post by: Isak on May 26, 2014, 10:02:04 AM
I finished building my crack and seemed to pass both resistance and voltage checks (I think). Plugged in my headphones and only got sound from the Right channel. If I unplug the right RCA cable and leave the left one in, I can hear very low music in the right ear, but not the left.

I tried searching for related topics but didn't find anything with my exact problem, but I did try some of the advice given.
I just redid my resistance checks, and everything matched except T13. It never rose until it hit the 270k peak, it kind of fluctuated up and down on my multimeter.
I measured the center pin of the RCA jacks and they were both about 100k ohm.
I measured the tip and ring terminal on the headphone jack and they were 2.46k and 2.47k.
I tried re-doing the soldering on the left center pin, the two white wires on the volume control unit and the white wire on A2.
Both LEDs light up.
I checked the RCA cables, they work. The headphones work when I plug them directly into my computer. (Brand new HD650)

I re-did my voltage checks and the numbers seemed a bit off.

1   79
2   154
3   0
4   154
5   82
6   0
7   99
8   0
9   153
10   0
11   0
12   0
13   153
14   0
15   178
20   0
21   203

A1   82   
A2   0
A4   0
A5   0
A6   79
A7   0
A9   0

B1   79
B2   153
B3   99
B4   82
B5   153
B6   153
B7   0
B8   0

I can take pictures of anything specific if that would help. I appreciate the help!
Title: Re: Fresh Crack - No sound from left channel.
Post by: Paul Birkeland on May 26, 2014, 11:34:16 AM
Your voltage at 9 is way off, is the 3K resistor well connected there? (Maybe you have it connected to 10 by accident?)
Title: Re: Fresh Crack - No sound from left channel.
Post by: Isak on May 26, 2014, 11:51:44 AM
Your voltage at 9 is way off, is the 3K resistor well connected there? (Maybe you have it connected to 10 by accident?)
http://imgur.com/h12GZVk (http://imgur.com/h12GZVk)
It is connected at 9L, I might try to re-solder 9L if that might fix the voltages.
Title: Re: Fresh Crack - No sound from left channel.
Post by: Isak on May 26, 2014, 12:06:57 PM
uhh, I tried re-soldering 9L, and now the top of T9 is reading 175v  :-[
Title: Re: Fresh Crack - No sound from left channel.
Post by: Paul Birkeland on May 26, 2014, 02:11:16 PM
If the white wire going to B4 is connected to T4 instead of T5, I could also imagine something like this happening, but your voltages don't support that idea.

Can you confirm that you're seeing 3K from terminal 9 to ground?
Title: Re: Fresh Crack - No sound from left channel.
Post by: Isak on May 27, 2014, 05:16:12 AM
Sorry for the late reply. I'm in Europe (GMT).

Terminal 9 measures 2.91k ohm, T7 is 2.94
Title: Re: Fresh Crack - No sound from left channel.
Post by: Paul Birkeland on May 27, 2014, 08:34:01 AM
It's slightly possible that the 6080 didn't travel well, and that there may be an internal short in the tube.  If you can find a different 6080 or 6AS7 to plug into the amp, that would at least eliminate the 6080 tube as the issue.   
Title: Re: Fresh Crack - No sound from left channel.
Post by: Isak on May 27, 2014, 08:42:27 AM
I'm not even sure where to start looking for another tube locally.  :-[  the 6080 does seem to glow from top to bottom, if that makes any difference. The 12AU7 on the other hand only seems to have a faint glow at the top. Not sure if that's intended or not.

The tubes were quite well packaged imo. However, 2 of the terminal strips were broken in half, but I just superglued them back together. (I assume that shouldn't cause a problem.)
Title: Re: Fresh Crack - No sound from left channel.
Post by: Paul Birkeland on May 27, 2014, 08:46:37 AM
Yeah, the terminal strips shouldn't be an issue.  Your 12AU7 is working quite well by the indicated measurements.

1/2 of the 6080 is also working as specified, and the other half has the correct bias being applied to get the results we expect, but is drawing too much current.  This is confirmed by the shared power supply voltages from both channels, which indicate that about 30mA extra is being drawn.  This could be explained by a short inside the 6080 from plate to cathode, which is very, very rare. 
Title: Re: Fresh Crack - No sound from left channel.
Post by: Isak on May 27, 2014, 08:55:51 AM
Well, if it can happen, then it can happen I guess.

Do you have any other ideas on what might be the issue? It's my first soldering project so I just figured that I messed something up, although I never went to the next step without triple checking what went where.

On page 19 in the manual, I connected the power transformer terminal 4 to 14U instead of 22L as suggested. Just something I thought to mention

EDIT: Looking at the 6080 socket, the soldering doesn't look very shiny, is it possible that there is some sort of interference, although I did manage to get voltage readings off the B sockets? Here's a picture of the socket http://imgur.com/Lcp3nnt
Title: Re: Fresh Crack - No sound from left channel.
Post by: Paul Birkeland on May 27, 2014, 09:11:23 AM
Well yes, actually, I hadn't thought of this before, but I do have something you can check.

With the amp powered down and the power supply reading 0V, measure the resistance between B5 and B6.  Also triple check that there isn't any conducting debris between those pins.
Title: Re: Fresh Crack - No sound from left channel.
Post by: Isak on May 27, 2014, 09:22:55 AM
with the power cable unplugged (been that way since yesterday) it seems to read 00.7 when I measure between B5 and B6, with the multimeter set to 200 (not 200k). Not sure if that reads as  7 ohm or 0.7 .

And there is nothing that can conduct between B5 and B6 (you can see B5 and B6 in the picture I posted above)
Title: Re: Fresh Crack - No sound from left channel.
Post by: Paul Birkeland on May 27, 2014, 09:34:13 AM
Yeah, 7 or 0.7 are both equally bad.  This means that the plate and cathode are somehow touching, but without touching the grid.  I've seen similar things happen when the welds fail that connect the tube pins to the tube guts.  To absolutely rule out debris, you can yank the tube and measure the pins themselves.

-PB
Title: Re: Fresh Crack - No sound from left channel.
Post by: Isak on May 27, 2014, 09:47:12 AM
I'm not 100% sure what you just said, but I pulled the 6080 out and measured B5 and B6 again, but didn't seem to be able to get a reading. Just, nothing came up.
Title: Re: Fresh Crack - No sound from left channel.
Post by: Paul Birkeland on May 27, 2014, 09:49:12 AM
I mean to measure the tube pins themselves, with the tube out of the socket.
Title: Re: Fresh Crack - No sound from left channel.
Post by: Isak on May 27, 2014, 09:57:01 AM
Ah, ok. Sorry  :D

Measuring between 5 and 6 on the tube, it seems to jump all over the place. Never really decides on a number.

EDIT: Sometimes it stays around the 0.9-2.0 mark, jumpes up to 20-50 for a few seconds, then back down to the 1-4 mark. What kind of number am I looking for?
Title: Re: Fresh Crack - No sound from left channel.
Post by: Paul Birkeland on May 27, 2014, 07:45:06 PM
What kind of number am I looking for?

You're mostly just looking to replicate the readings you get with the tube plugged into the socket. They may jump a little bit when you are measuring the tube pins because of a fair amount of oxidation and crust that builds up while 6080's are in storage. 

Title: Re: Fresh Crack - No sound from left channel.
Post by: Isak on May 27, 2014, 11:42:56 PM
Isak,

Did you switch back to AC Volts?  The heaters are AC.


What was I supposed to measure with AC? I did all the measurements in DC I think. (the symbol on the multimeter is V -... (the dots go under the dash.))

Title: Re: Fresh Crack - No sound from left channel.
Post by: Grainger49 on May 28, 2014, 02:39:14 AM
Isac,

Wrong thread.  I deleted my post.  You were measuring resistance.  Your meter should be set on the lowest range if you have ranges.
Title: Re: Fresh Crack - No sound from left channel.
Post by: Isak on May 29, 2014, 03:30:17 AM
I decided to run resistance tests again, just to provide you with more data since that's about the only way I can contribute to the problem :-[

All readings were taken with both tubes PLUGGED IN (with unplugged readings in brackets if they were any different)

1   25k   (100k and rising)
2   2.9k   (100k and rising)
3    0.6
4    2.9k   (100k and rising)
5    25k   (100k and rising)
6    2.49k
7    2.94k
8    0
9   2.9k
10    2.49k
12    0
13    2.9k   - steady for about 30 sec. (100k and rising)
14    0
15   3.17k   - Added it in just for more data (150k+ and rising)
20    0
22    0
B3    2.94k
B6    2.91k

RCA jacks:

   Ground lug 0
   Center pin R 101.8k L 102.2k

Headphone jack:

   Tip   2.49k
   Ring   2.49k
   Sleeve   0

Volume control:

   Inboard terminal top & bottom   0
   Center terminal top & bottom   0 (volume down) 101-102k (volume up)
   Outboard terminal top & bottom   101-102k

6080 tube:

   With the tube unplugged, touching 5 with red and 6 with black, it starts about 50 ohm and rises steadily, sometimes jumping up to 150-300 ohm and then back down to 50-ish and rises again.
Title: Re: Fresh Crack - No sound from left channel.
Post by: Isak on May 29, 2014, 06:31:44 AM
Update:

I am now getting a 27.4 ohm reading between B5 and B6 with the 6080 plugged into the socket.

On another note: When measuring voltages, I'm supposed to use the V-... symbol on the multimeter, right? as opposed to the V~
Title: Re: Fresh Crack - No sound from left channel.
Post by: Grainger49 on May 29, 2014, 06:39:12 AM
The V-- setting is DC Volts. The V~ setting is AC Volts.

Read carefully, the heaters are AC and the high voltages are all DC.
Title: Re: Fresh Crack - No sound from left channel.
Post by: Isak on May 29, 2014, 06:50:10 AM
Sorry for sounding dumb, I just want to make sure I'm doing it right :)

The manual says that all the voltage readings in the voltage checks are VDC (so, dc) unless otherwise specified. And it never mentions otherwise, so I guess they are all supposed to be DC. <- if i'm reading correctly.

Title: Re: Fresh Crack - No sound from left channel.
Post by: Grainger49 on May 29, 2014, 07:09:39 AM
Yup, you are right.  The voltage readings don't instruct you to go to AC when reading A9 and B7 which should both be 6.3V AC.  The list says 0V DC.  That is also true.
Title: Re: Fresh Crack - No sound from left channel.
Post by: Isak on May 29, 2014, 08:03:25 AM
I decided to re-do the voltage check as well, and now it's showing a new problem.

All voltages were well within limits except:

7   0
B3   0
B6   173

Terminal 13 gave off a big flash when I touched it with the multimeter. Tried it again and it went fine.

EDIT: And it appears as the 6080 doesn't light up anymore. :(
Title: Re: Fresh Crack - No sound from left channel.
Post by: Paul Birkeland on May 29, 2014, 09:43:26 AM
Isak,

We can provide you with a fresh 6080 tube, just send an e-mail to replacementparts(at)bottlehead(dot)com.

-PB
Title: Re: Fresh Crack - No sound from left channel.
Post by: Isak on May 29, 2014, 09:54:58 AM
Do you reckon that the 6080 was causing the problems then? Or will I just ruin another tube by putting it in my amp? I did notice a glow when I first put it in.

I just want to say that I truly appreciate your help. I do feel kind of shitty for not knowing what I'm doing and making you fix up my mess.
Title: Re: Fresh Crack - No sound from left channel.
Post by: Paul Birkeland on May 29, 2014, 12:29:40 PM
Yeah, the short may have cooked out of the tube, so now that half of the tube just isn't conducting.  I'd imagine a different 6080 might end up working just fine.

-PB