Bottlehead Forum

Bottlehead Kits => Crack => Topic started by: sadkins on July 17, 2014, 09:24:20 AM

Title: Speedball upgrade problems - [solved]
Post by: sadkins on July 17, 2014, 09:24:20 AM
Having trouble with the speedball upgrade.

First off I'll say that I initially installed the MJE350 transistors backwards (didn't read forums and took the wrong guess as to which way to install the non-metal backed version).  Ordered a few of them as replacements from mouser, along with some of the tiny LEDS (removed a few as I thought that I may have installed backwards during initial build (I did not)).

Ok, so new MJE350's installed, checked out all of the LEDs, and wired it all up again.  I now have LED's lit for the A and B boards, but no LEDs lit on the large board.   Did a quick voltage test and I'm only seeing 3-5 volts on pins 1 & 2, so I just cut testing further short.

I can and have reverted the crack to stock and works fine, retested all voltages and they are right in manual spec.

Thoughts?  Might I have blown the other smaller transistors as well as those I plugged in backwards?
Title: Re: Speedball upgrade problems -
Post by: Paul Birkeland on July 17, 2014, 11:52:16 AM
Ok, so new MJE350's installed, checked out all of the LEDs, and wired it all up again.  I now have LED's lit for the A and B boards, but no LEDs lit on the large board.   Did a quick voltage test and I'm only seeing 3-5 volts on pins 1 & 2, so I just cut testing further short.

I can and have reverted the crack to stock and works fine, retested all voltages and they are right in manual spec.

Thoughts?  Might I have blown the other smaller transistors as well as those I plugged in backwards?
Pins 1 and 2 being terminals 1 and 2? 

Try the amp with just the 12AU7 (no 6080) and just the small boards installed.

-PB
Title: Re: Speedball upgrade problems -
Post by: sadkins on July 17, 2014, 01:10:17 PM
Sorry, yes terminal 1 and 2 I was referring to.

I tested without the 6080 installed and have results of the following -

- terminals 2 and 4 appear a bit high at 220v

- terminals 1 and 5 are at 80v.


Thanks for any help,
Title: Re: Speedball upgrade problems -
Post by: Paul Birkeland on July 17, 2014, 05:01:26 PM
Terminal 2, 4, B2, B5, and 13 are all wired together.

If you get different voltages at any of those terminals, you have a loose wire or funky connection.
Title: Re: Speedball upgrade problems -
Post by: sadkins on July 17, 2014, 05:12:57 PM
Nope all those are reading the same voltage.
Title: Re: Speedball upgrade problems -
Post by: Paul Birkeland on July 17, 2014, 05:30:26 PM
Does this happen immediately after turn on, or after a few minutes?

Did you use all of the hardware included to mount the TIP-50's? 
Title: Re: Speedball upgrade problems -
Post by: sadkins on July 17, 2014, 05:41:02 PM
right from the start.  I am using all of the hardware for the TIP50's with the exception of the clear thermal pads that sort of fell apart when putting together.  I had used a bit of heatsink compound paste in its place.  Would this cause a problem?
Title: Re: Speedball upgrade problems -
Post by: Paul Birkeland on July 17, 2014, 05:55:10 PM
Yes, that is absolutely your problem. 
Title: Re: Speedball upgrade problems -
Post by: sadkins on July 17, 2014, 06:00:04 PM
Ok, so its not actually supposed to contact the metal heatsink.  Is there anything I might be able to purchase locally in place of those brittle plastic pieces that came with the kit?
Title: Re: Speedball upgrade problems -
Post by: sadkins on July 17, 2014, 09:00:14 PM
I now have low volume on the left channel only, with some scratchy sounds also coming through.  Rechecked all solder joints.  Could I have possibly already damaged the transistors having them directly contacting the heatsink?

Amp was awesome prior to the attempted Speedball upgrade, struggling more than I'd have thought with this.
Title: Re: Speedball upgrade problems -
Post by: Paul Birkeland on July 18, 2014, 05:55:31 AM
You need TO-220 insulators.  The insulator is an electrical insulator to keep the metal tab of the TIP-50 from touching the heatsink.  The heatsink is grounded.  I made this choice because the Crack base is fairly compact, and it didn't seem tough to imagine fingers possibly making accidental contact with the heatsink accidentally.

You can purchase a pair of replacement heatsink kits from us by e-mailing replacementparts(at)bottlehead(dot)com.

You can just install the small boards to verify their functionality with the 12AU7.

If you continue to run the big PC board and 6080 without the insulators, you will continue to cause damage, and eventually you will need to replace the entire large PC board and its components.

-PB
Title: Re: Speedball upgrade problems -
Post by: sadkins on July 18, 2014, 07:17:33 AM
Thanks, will order some new insulator pads. 

I have ordered all replacement transistors from mouser to rebuild the boards again, if still no go after this will likely just scrap the speedball entirely and just settle on the already pretty great default crack sound (and come to live with my $150ish worth of failed speedball project parts.)
Title: Re: Speedball upgrade problems -
Post by: Paul Birkeland on July 18, 2014, 07:24:56 AM
It would be a good idea to start by verifying that the small PC boards work.  You can install them and use the 3K resistors, and the amp will be operational.

This will narrow down the issues to the big board only.

-PB
Title: Re: Speedball upgrade problems -
Post by: sadkins on July 18, 2014, 07:32:57 AM
I have reverted the amp several times and continues to work as stock.  I will try the small boards only with the resistors in place to see if I can rule those boards out for rebuilding.  Thanks,
Title: Re: Speedball upgrade problems -
Post by: sadkins on July 18, 2014, 07:50:43 AM
Ok, making some progress.  Removed large board.  Left the two small A & B boards and wired the 3k resistors back into place and amp appears to function normally. 

So at least now I can just focus on rebuilding the large board.  I have all the transistors coming to do a full rebuild and proper insulating kits for the TIP50's as well.

Thanks for the help.
Title: Re: Speedball upgrade problems - [solved]
Post by: sadkins on July 19, 2014, 02:03:39 PM
Just a last update - rebuilt large board with new TIP50' (and using non conductive/heat trasferring pads) and 22N222A's, and I am indeed rolling with my Crack in full speedball mode.  Thanks for the help.

Long story short - terrible idea to think you know better and use heatsink compound on the TIP50's.  :)
Title: Re: Speedball upgrade problems - [solved]
Post by: NightFlight on July 19, 2014, 05:32:32 PM
You learned something new a bout transistor packages. No harm in that.
Title: Re: Speedball upgrade problems - [solved]
Post by: sadkins on August 12, 2014, 08:43:14 AM
An update since my last -

Woke up to horrible sound coming out of the right driver of my HD650's.  Apparently some component on the big board of the speedball failed, and sent a nice blast of current down the line destroying a driver.

I verified it as far as being an issue on the big board, once again leaving the A & B boards in place and re-wiring in the large resistors in place of the large speedball board.

Prior to this the amp with speedball had been working well, sounded great.  A fluke bad transistor or ? 
Title: Re: Speedball upgrade problems - [solved]
Post by: Paul Birkeland on August 12, 2014, 09:07:19 AM
Did you measure any voltages when this happened?

There are capacitors at the output of the Crack that will prevent this from happening.  If terminals 6/7 or 9/10 are shorted together (by long, untrimmed component leads), then you may end up with the situation you are describing. 

It would be worthwhile to reinstall the large PC board, then measure voltages, as you may still have the same issue present.

-PB
Title: Re: Speedball upgrade problems - [solved]
Post by: sadkins on August 12, 2014, 09:18:53 AM
No, this happened as I was sitting listening to the amp.  Had put several hours on it prior to this from happening, and then the loud, raw voltage sound blaring out the right driver...

I have since taken out the speedball and have been living with it reverted to stock for a week or so with no other issues.  Cost me $50 for the replacement headphone driver, so I'm not too eager to go through all that again without understanding what might have happened to cause the issue. 
Title: Re: Speedball upgrade problems - [solved]
Post by: Doc B. on August 12, 2014, 09:22:08 AM
My guess would be a bad connection somewhere.