Bottlehead Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: aragorn723 on November 20, 2014, 11:15:05 AM
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Hi,
Can someone explain why music sounds wierd sometimes when it is streamed over the internet? For instance, sometimes songs sound good on spotify, other times it sounds like the artist is playing music under water. Is there anything that can be done to make it sound better?
Dave
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I'll take a stab at this and make the assumption that the streaming service may vary the bit rate of the music to accommodate bandwidth limitations. They would do this so that instead of having the music pause to buffer, or skip sections in the case of live streaming, that the quality will be downgraded while there is insufficient bandwidth to stream at full quality.
As for what can be done to make this issue not occur, you would first have to diagnose the reason for the lack of bandwidth. It could be an issue with Spotify's servers, their uplink, your ISP, your cable / DSL modem, your router, your device's wifi signal level, some other performance issue on your device, a software issue.
When you are experiencing the issue you can run an internet speed test using the site speedtest.net. If your score is low you could consider switching ISPs.
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That may be true, but for me the hardest thing about developing a good sound system is finding the music to play on my oh so sweet BH gear. I my opinion most recorded music sucks. There is a huge deference in quality between albums and I would venture that the songs that sound good to you are simply better recorded albums. Other then that I don't know as I very rarely listen to streamed music. What is streamed music? MP3? Yuck!
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Just googled what format spotify uses for streaming / offline storage. Looks like they use OGG Vorbis, which is a technically better format than MP3. It is still a lossy format, but I would challenge anyone doing a blind listening test to tell the difference between lossless and an OGG rip of 160 kbps or higher. I suspect that last statement may set off some sort of flame war.
Albums are nice, but streaming music is capable of delivering high quality (given you have the necessary bandwidth and the particular streaming service offers high bitrate content), convenience, and a method of being introduced to new stuff.
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IMO Internet streams are great for background music but not for serious sit down listening. For example, we don't have any local Jazz radio stations here in my town. But I like jazz. So I listen to Jazz from KCSI in the Bay Area, WRTI out of Philadelphia and KPLU Jazz24 out of Seattle. I'd rate the music content as stellar but the audio quality as "better than nothing to good." That said, I listen to these stations frequently. And if I can I contribute a few bucks during their pledge drives. As always, YMMV.
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Hopefully streaming can help to keep artists making good music. What I mean is that the old model was "hear a good song on the radio, go and buy the record". Hopefully now it means "hear a good song on a streaming station, go and buy a higher res copy". I find a lot of the LPs and CDs I that buy these days by listening to Pandora in the car or with my iPhone.
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This definitely is a highly debatable topic ::) As far as speeds, here goes:
upload speed is 23.25 mbps
download speed is 6.07 mbps
Maybe its a function of the free service on spotify? My buddy at work has the premium service, and I don't remember it sounding bad in any way (but was hoping to stick with the free one lol). As far as quality, it is hard to beat the output of a decent dac playing lossless, i'd much rather listen to that than streaming!
Doc,
It's kind of funny how streaming has changed music.. There aren't too many new songs i've found by pandora and bought (maybe one comes to mind) but sometimes if you hear a new song a few times it just sticks and you wind up buying it.. Of course that's what they want :)
Dave
Dave
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I'm retired so I have the time at home to search for my music on the internet hi res web sites. HD Tracks, acoustic, etc. I read about what other people like and probably spend 2 hrs a day surfing the web. At $25 a pop I can spend weeks deciding on my next download. Im quite deaf, and for years stopped listening to music because it sounded like loud noise. I then discovered the secret to my pleasure was high end gear and well produced recording. Anything less is pain to my ears. After a few years with the Crack and HD 600's I just ordered a Stereomour and some Orca's. Hopefully they will work for me. So you can see why listening to streaming low quality files just won't work for me.
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Just to reinforce that, master violin makers with serious hearing loss seem to have greater skills at tuning the plate vibrations, well beyond the younger ones. I forget where I read about that but it was a reputable scientific source.
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Hi,
Can someone explain why music sounds wierd sometimes when it is streamed over the internet? For instance, sometimes songs sound good on spotify, other times it sounds like the artist is playing music under water. Is there anything that can be done to make it sound better?
Dave
Your download speed at 6.07 mbps could be the root of your problem, (besides the different bit rates broadcast) that is somewhat slow.
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Just to reinforce that, master violin makers with serious hearing loss seem to have greater skills at tuning the plate vibrations, well beyond the younger ones. I forget where I read about that but it was a reputable scientific source.
Its strange Paul, I seem to be able to pick out a cd in a heart beat, and I think "I'm deaf, how can I tell the difference between recordings".
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upload speed is 23.25 mbps
download speed is 6.07 mbps
Are you sure that's not the other way round? I'm in the UK and my download is a bit over 8mbps, fairly slow now days, with an upload of just under 1mbps. That's more than enough to stream music at the highest bit rates. Now video, that's a different matter.
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If you have the bandwidth and an extra $20 per month, you might want to consider a high quality streaming service like Tidal Audio. I just started using Tidal after reading about it in the annual Chelsea Audio catalog. What's cool is that I can listen to exactly what I want at 96/24 resolution. I think it supports 192/24 as well buy my current set up only recognizes 96/24.
The big challenge for me is just getting the right DAC set up without dropping big $$. I'm now thinking I need a Bottlehead DAC and a S.E.X. 2.1 for my home office.
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I'm trying this service - looking for new source material for my BH DAC.
I really like the service - I'm using the chrome web app. My audio chain is
2008 Mac Pro -> USB to emu 404 USB DAC -> beePre -> paramounts 2A3 with magnaquest
full Nickel iron and soft start upgrades -> vintage Klipsch LaScalas.
The reason I mention all of this is that I was humbled by the hifi Vs compressed test
(1,411 kbit/s (CD) vs 320 kbit/s, I'm guessing). I could not tell the difference! I'm assuming
that the switching was happening mid-track, but I'm not sure.
Now I'm left wondering what the weak link is? Old speakers with no upgrades/maintenance?
No power conditioning? The DAC? Me - my hearing?
Anyway, I'm totally enjoying the 44.1khz streaming, even if I can't tell the difference ;-)
-Dave
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I have been around the block with most of the services. I would heartily recommend Tidal streaming. The "HiFi" setting is indistiguishable from a good cd player, even off my phone (I have a really nice Mini-Rca cable). The other option is from a desktop machine into a nice dac...
Clark
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Download speed should always be bigger than upload.
I've listened to spotiify and found it kinda lifeless but that was just one listening session. Streaming music is a great idea but streaming compressed music is just asking for trouble in my opinion. Then again I've listened to itunes radio which is also compressed and it sounded fine.
The variable recording quality is and always will be a factor. So too it seems with the playback delivery systems.
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Hi All,
It worth noting that you need to turn on the high quality audio setting on spotify, its off by default; the same goes for deezer. To my ears I can't hear a difference between the streaming services and cd, I did a comparison to deezer before putting my cds in the loft :)
I used to say I preferred the sound of deezer to spotify, but a recent back to back comparison think the difference has closed.
I hadn't heard of Tidal before you mentioned it, just signing up for the 7 day trial now 8)
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Just been having a listen to a few tracks on Tidal and comparing them with deezer.
It seems to depend on the album, but there is a bit of an improvement listening on Tidal, especially with some newer albums, for example I can't tell a lot of a difference with Radioheads creep, or Van Morrison's Moondance, but can hear it a little diference on Nathaniel Rateliff, Once In A Great While.
It also occurred to me I put my cds away before I had my HD600s and Crack; I am going to have to get them back out again I think :)
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A number of friends were posting about Tidal on FB. I got to their site and asked what resolution they used. It is 44.1/16. Or CD quality.
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I don't know Pnooud, When I got my HD600 and build my modded Crack. my CD's started to sound terrible compared to some ressed up downloads from the internet. Every once in a while I find a 44.,16 file that sounds good but mostly everything is 96 or more. I still buy CD's of music not available elsewhere but am always wishing I had a clearer sound.
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Wow thanks to this thread i saved a lot of money! Its amazing what you can learn on this forum. I can use my old squeezebox that i love so much with tidal and mac mini and the new DAC!