Bottlehead Forum
Bottlehead Kits => Legacy Kit Products => Quickie => Topic started by: boulos on April 14, 2015, 05:40:10 AM
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Hi,
Would this AC/DC converter be suitable for the quickie, assuming I still want to run the filaments on batteries (these last a long time):
http://www.us.tdk-lambda.com/ftp/Specs/zms100.pdf
There are 36V and 48VDC output versions.
Thanks
Boulos
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These are basically the guts that you might find inside your average laptop power brick. They prioritize high power and high efficiency (to keep the heat down). On the negative side, these little switching supplies are super noisy, and may not have such great regulation at low currents (though this datasheet says otherwise).
You could give it a try, but the batteries will almost certainly sound remarkably better.
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I see. They tout it as this super awesome supply. Maybe it is, but I guess not for our purposes. Thanks for looking at it.
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Yeah, for the type of power supply that it is, it is super awesome! It's reasonably low ripple, and regulation is much better than what you normally get, but it's still a switching supply.
-PB
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Batteries are very low noise, good ones are very, very low noise. Is there a reason you need an AC sourced power supply or are you just wanting build one for fun?
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The main reason is that the 9V batteries I have run out very quickly, discharging even when the Quickie is off. I've only used Duracell and I'm quite disappointed with them (though the D-cells are great). I should just try other brands before judging. Any recommendations?
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I remember your thread now. It seems that there would have been a problem found.
I know of a DIY power supply but it only goes to 30V. Two could be adjusted for 36V. Maybe with different regulator chips one would go to 36V.
Are you interested?
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I had stopped using the Quickie, so shelved this issue. Now I want to use it again, and I'm running into the same problem. I can either try the rechargeables recommended to me earlier, or try a different brand of Alkaline batteries. Still, I would greatly appreciate a pointer to the DIY power supply.
Thanks!
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Boulos, you should not be seeing that behavior - something is wrong. It might be the build, or an unexpected problem in the design. Is this the 1.1 version or the original?
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Hi Paul, this is the Quickie 1.1 with PJCCS, all stock except for the output caps.
I can check voltages again and post the results and pictures of the build later tonight when I'm back from the office.
Thanks!
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It may just be bad battery's. I've had a bad batch of Duracell 9v's that all discharged and blew their end caps out in a very short time. Replaced them with cheap rechargeables from eBay that would discharge in three days sitting on a shelf. But they aren't all like that, i have a set of energizer's that have lasted forever.
If you really want to go AC powered check out my Project Babybottle thread in the gallery section.
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Apologies I couldn't get this done last night as promised.
All the resistance and voltage checks measured OK except for two possibly peculiar measurements:
Resistance (no batteries): Terminals 1,4 on the rotary switch measured 100kOhm (not "infinity")
Voltage: Terminals A6 and B6 measured 26.88 and 24.72 (not between 19 and 21 as the PJCCS manual specifies).
Also, when the batteries are installed, but the Quickie is off, I noticed that terminals 4 and 9 measure 0.26V (similarly for Kreg and -reg).
Attached are a couple of pictures of the build.
Thanks for all the help!
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Well, you have found the problem - the T4/T9 measurement indicates current being drawn. It's very late here so I have not yet tried to figure out why, but PB will probably nail it in the morning.
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How're your battery voltages?
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How're your battery voltages?
They seem to be OK:
9V: 9.3, 9.3, 9.3, 7.6 (didn't have a 4th new battery)
D: 1.57, 1.57
Boulos
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There's definitely a leak somewhere. The batteries are already 9.27V (they were 9.31 earlier and the instrument I'm using is a BK 2709B). Here's a picture of the bottom of the PJCCS board if that helps.
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Is that connection at bA loose?
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It appears so in the picture, but it's actually good. I also just verified continuity from two other terminals connected to it.
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Pull the tubes and recheck your "off" voltages.
-PB
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T4, T9 and -reg are still 0.26V without the tubes. Kreg went to 0V.
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More measurements while off with no tubes:
Voltage on one side of R2 is 34.7 and 5.57 on the other.
Voltage on one side of R3 is 5.57 and 0.26 on the other.
Q2 ECB voltages are 35.3, 35.3 and 34.7 respectively.
431 KAR voltages are 0.05, 0, and 5.57 respectively.
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I've spent some time tracing the circuit and voltages. I can trace a direct path (of decreasing potential while the Quickie is off) from IB to ground. Specifically:
IB -> D1 -> R @D2 -> R2 -> R3 -> R between T9 and Ground
The voltages along this path are:
35.14 -> 34.71 -> 34.45 -> 5.54 -> 0.26 -> 0
This means that current is flowing along this path and the batteries drain slowly over time.
I carefully checked all the solder joints and they looked OK. However, I can also trace this same path in the manual's pictures (page 22 makes that possible).
As far as I can tell from the PJCCS manual, this problem doesn't exist in the Original Quickie because IB input voltage is governed by the on/off switch, whereas in Quickie 1.1 IB is always connected.
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A little background information:
The design would have it where the voltage for the heaters turns on (causes flow through) the tube. The "high voltage" will not pass unless the heater is hot.
So, without terminal or tube pin numbers that means that the positive supply will stack up on the plate of each tube. It goes nowhere and there is no drain on the batteries. It is like "seeing" an open switch. The heaters are on the switch; in the off position they do see an open switch.
I would be pulling out the manual but my mind is too fuzzy this morning.
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Hi Grainger,
The positive supply is behaving as intended (and as you describe). However, it appears to be "leaking" via -reg to ground through the path I described in my earlier post (when the Quickie is off with and without tubes attached). I double and triple checked my work, and as far as I can tell, the same path exists in the manual. I am stumped at this point.
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I'll need to get out a PJCCS manual and look at it.
And there it is, on page 17 and 18 of the manual I have the high voltage (36V) is switched through the center contacts of the three pole double throw power toggle switch. There should be no leakage through the boards when the switch is off.
You can test this by measuring the center two lugs that are used of the power switch. Test for voltage when it is closed, should be zero V. Then test for voltage when open, should be the full voltage of your 9V battery string.
If it is not zero volts when off there is the leakage.
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Thanks Grainger! Yes, that's what I confirmed too in the Quickie 1.0 instructions. The instructions for the Quickie 1.1, which is what I have, start at page 20.
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Hi:
I have a vested interest in knowing what happened. Boulos had lent me his Quickie. I used it for a couple of days (side note - it sounded amazing, especially for the cost!) but then went back to my BeePre. It sat on my shelf for a couple of weeks before I returned it to Boulos.
Recently I found out that when I returned it to Boulos, the batteries were dead. My first thought was that I must have screwed up and left it on, though I'm usually pretty careful when it comes to things like that. Especially when it's not mine!
Boulos said no, that it was switched off when I returned it. That makes more sense and I felt better knowing that.
Gerry
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I would like to add that on one of my Quickie projects, I used double knife (think old fashioned double pole) switches. At the time, I didn't even think about it when I hooked up both sides of the 9 volt battery supply to these switches. To be clear, I had two double pole switches, so the 9 volt AND the D cells were controlled by them. Both sides of the 9 volt batteries (positive and negative), and maybe only one side of the D cells IIRC. I guess what I am driving at is I never had an issue that was battery related. On the other hand, this idea only masks any possible symptoms rather than solve them.
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Hi Greg, The switch indeed masks any issues, but effectively solves the problem. I would rather not add another switch though.
One way to verify I'm not crazy is: if someone has an unmodified Quickie 1.1 with PJCCS, and a precise voltmeter (I am using a BK Precision 2709B), then please measure -reg on the PJCCS when the Quickie is off and the batteries are installed (the newer the better to get a higher measurement). The measurement will be about 0.25V.
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It'll be great if someone from BH gets a chance to look at this. Shall I start a new thread?
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Bumping this thread up. Since I use the Quickie occasionally, solving this issue is important for me and preferable over taking out a 9V battery every time I'm done listening. Can anyone else with a stock Quickie 1.1 + PJCCS measure -reg when the Quickie is off. I'm getting ~0.25V which means the batteries are constantly draining?
Thanks
Boulos
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Measure from where to where. I use mine daily and get close to 100hrs. on battery's
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Hi,
If you use it daily, then the leakage when it's off will be irrelevant for you. It becomes relevant when you keep it off for a while (weeks at a time), then turn it on and find that the batteries have been drained enough that they're no longer usable.
Measure -reg (on the PJCCS board) to ground (with an instrument that can measure small voltages). I get 0.25V. From earlier in the thread, here's the path and list of measurements I took (all to ground):
IB -> D1 -> R @D2 -> R2 -> R3 -> R between T9 and Ground
The voltages along this path are:
35.14 -> 34.71 -> 34.45 -> 5.54 -> 0.26 -> 0
This means that current is flowing along this path and the batteries drain slowly over time.
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This is resolved now. It turns out there was an error in the PJCCS manual for the Quickie 1.1. Thanks to PB for the excellent support, for identifying the issue and sending me the fix. After updating the board based on the new instructions, there is no more parasitic current leak. As a test, I left the batteries in the Quickie for almost two months while it's off, and they measured the same as when I put them in. Attached are pics of the updated PJCCS board.
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Interesting, i'll have to reverse engineer the circuit to see what has changed as its a different layout from mine.