Bottlehead Forum

Bottlehead Kits => Crack => Topic started by: jflorek on June 06, 2015, 09:48:05 AM

Title: Need some help, fuse blows
Post by: jflorek on June 06, 2015, 09:48:05 AM
I put my amp together, checked by BSEE, found some mistakes and corrected them but I am blowing fuses EVERYTIME i power up.  Cant find the short!  Seems I did some damage but just not sure where or how to find it.

Suggestions appreciated!!
Title: Re: Need some help, fuse blows
Post by: Natural Sound on June 06, 2015, 10:25:32 AM
John, you did not specify which amp you have. Since this is posted in the General category more information is needed.

Have you done the resistance checks? What were the results?
Title: Re: Need some help, fuse blows
Post by: jflorek on June 06, 2015, 07:04:57 PM
Apologies.  i have a stock crack.  all resistaces check out perfectly.

thanks
Title: Re: Need some help, fuse blows
Post by: Grainger49 on June 07, 2015, 01:53:51 AM
Then you should start by posting pictures of your power supply.  We will want to check the orientation of the diodes and capacitors.  Also the transformer wires should be visible.
Title: Re: Need some help, fuse blows
Post by: Chris65 on June 07, 2015, 04:11:17 AM
But before that, make sure you are using the correct fuse. What is the rating of the fuse & is it fast-blow or slow-blow? (Should be 1A slow-blow.) And what is your mains voltage?

To quote from PB:
Blowing fuses generally means that something is in backwards, or two things are touching which shouldn't be.  Your diodes and capacitors are correctly oriented, but you should carefully inspect the power supply built on the two 6 lug terminal strips.  Look for adjacent terminals that have untrimmed component leads that might be touching.

And yes, photos help!
Title: Re: Need some help, fuse blows
Post by: Adrian on June 07, 2015, 10:08:40 AM
More fuse info:
http://bottlehead.com/smf/index.php?topic=7082.msg68589#msg68589 (http://bottlehead.com/smf/index.php?topic=7082.msg68589#msg68589)
Title: Re: Need some help, fuse blows
Post by: jflorek on June 08, 2015, 05:16:02 PM
I'm using 500mA fuses.  Blew the one that came with the kit and replaced at the local electronics store.  Pics as requested by Grainger.

Thanks all.
Title: Re: Need some help, fuse blows
Post by: Paul Birkeland on June 08, 2015, 06:39:31 PM
If these two bare diode leads touch, you'll blow fuses all day.

Then there's the blue elephant in the room...
Title: Re: Need some help, fuse blows
Post by: jflorek on June 13, 2015, 11:26:30 AM
Apologies for the long interval.  I work out of state so the only time I have to complete this is weekends.  Thanks for the advice!

I still have the short.  The diode leads do not touch so that's not it.  I changed the cap (yes same voltage and micro farad designation).   This was one of my mistakes but has been corrected AFTER I overheated and (possibly) fused the cap.

So I believe things are installed correctly at this point.  The question is, what could I
have blown when I fused the cap?  Is there some other damage that I might have done?

I'm stumped. 
Title: Re: Need some help, fuse blows
Post by: Paul Birkeland on July 13, 2015, 01:26:49 PM
Try removing the single red wire at power transformer terminal 9 on one end, then leave it poking up in the air.

Next, try turning the amp on with no tubes in the amp.  Does the fuse blow?

Next, try turning the amp on with the tubes in the amp.  Do they glow? Does the fuse blow?
Title: Re: Need some help, fuse blows
Post by: jflorek on July 18, 2015, 01:57:20 PM
Thanks PB.  I took the red wires off spade 9.  The 1A fuse doesnt blow but the voltages are less than half the expected values.  When I put the tubes in, they do not glow.  Voltages are WAY OFF.

My outputs as follows:

1=53v
2=.3v
4=4v
5=5v
7=0v
9=2v
etc.

Any thoughts?  The problem seems to be on the power side.  Thanks again for the help.
Title: Re: Need some help, fuse blows
Post by: Strikkflypilot on July 18, 2015, 08:12:49 PM
You have the correct transformer.? Live in US? Europe?
Title: Re: Need some help, fuse blows
Post by: jflorek on July 19, 2015, 02:25:09 AM
I live i the US.  Using the correct transformer, as described in the literature with the kit.  I don't  know but I'm looking at DC voltages from the outputs and they are below expected values.


Title: Re: Need some help, fuse blows
Post by: adydula on July 19, 2015, 04:47:44 AM
Hey,

If the fuse blows this means that something after the fuse is drawing too much current and the fuse blows etc...simple.

So this means that something after the fuse is most likely shorting something to "ground" when it should not.

Things that cause shorts to ground that draw excessive current are many.

They can be miswiring, parts in wrong, shorted resistors etc..

I would check all my wiring from the switches to the transformer, and beyond over again. Look for anything that might be grounding to the metal plate.

You can also leave power off, and look at the schematic. You can start unhooking things to see where the short might be. I would remove the diode bridge from the transformer and see if the fuse blows most likely not unless the transformer has a short to ground on the secondary side. If the fuse doesn't blow with the bridge rectifier removed then check all the diodes with the wires from the transformer secondary windings removed one at a time for resistance forward and backwards...if one of them is very low resistance in both directions you have found you culprit here. If all this checks out ok and the diodes are ok, you can put the bridge rectifiers back in and start looking at the sext step in the power circuit..the 220Uf caps....in correctly, remove and check for shorts. Also you can check at the B+ output for both channels to ground with an ohmmeter to see if there is a short here.

I would remove the tubes and check from the Plate of the tubes to ground...if there is a short here this could be an issue.

I don't know if u stated this but if you remove tubes and power on does the fuse blow?

Good Luck.
Alex
Title: Re: Need some help, fuse blows
Post by: Paul Birkeland on July 19, 2015, 06:29:29 AM
I live i the US.  Using the correct transformer, as described in the literature with the kit.  I don't  know but I'm looking at DC voltages from the outputs and they are below expected values.

Transformer measurements are AC voltages, and they have to be measured between pairs of lugs.

Try just having the 12AU7 in to see if that glows.

-PB
Title: Re: Need some help, fuse blows
Post by: jflorek on July 21, 2015, 04:37:03 PM
Tried it with the tubes installed.  Fuse (1A) does not blow.  Unfortunately, the tubes do not glow.
Title: Re: Need some help, fuse blows
Post by: Doc B. on July 21, 2015, 06:05:46 PM
I'm seeing something here that happens fairly frequently on the forum. PB asked you to try just the 12AU7 and you responded that you tried something different, both tubes installed. I guess it happens because we are sometimes not precise about what we are suggesting (this long distance troubleshooting stuff is without a doubt tricky) or maybe suggestions get read in a hurry. If you can go back and try what he suggested - just the 12AU7 tube installed - it may offer some useful info.
Title: Re: Need some help, fuse blows
Post by: jflorek on July 23, 2015, 11:44:45 PM
Thanks for the clarification.  You are correct.  I read more into the answer than was there.  I will try with just the 12AU7 tube istalled and let you know results tomorrow.  Thanks again for the support.   
Title: Re: Need some help, fuse blows
Post by: jflorek on July 24, 2015, 02:27:57 AM
Ok.  I tried with just the 12AU7.  No glow.  No voltage on the 6,7 and 9,10 pins/spades on the transformer.
Title: Re: Need some help, fuse blows
Post by: Paul Birkeland on July 31, 2015, 10:42:22 AM
Ok.  I tried with just the 12AU7.  No glow.  No voltage on the 6,7 and 9,10 pins/spades on the transformer.
Is the fuse still in-tact?
Title: Re: Need some help, fuse blows
Post by: jflorek on August 13, 2015, 12:55:30 AM
yes
Title: Re: Need some help, fuse blows
Post by: Paul Birkeland on August 13, 2015, 07:26:44 AM
Set your meter to AC voltage, then measure the AC voltage between power transformer terminals 1 and 2 with the amp plugged in and switched on.

-PB
Title: Re: Need some help, fuse blows
Post by: jflorek on August 18, 2015, 01:30:14 AM
Meter set to AC, reading across pins 1 and 2 about 107
Title: Re: Need some help, fuse blows
Post by: Paul Birkeland on August 18, 2015, 08:03:20 AM
Meter set to AC, reading across pins 1 and 2 about 107
Are you in Japan?

If you perform this same measurement and get no voltage between terminals 4 and 5 on the transformer, as well as terminals 9 and 10 on the transformer, then it's possible that you accidentally cut one of the wires that goes from terminals 1 or 2 on the transformer into the actual body of the transformer. 

This can be repaired with a scrap of wire and some solder if this is the case.