Bottlehead Forum
Bottlehead Kits => Legacy Kit Products => Stereomour => Topic started by: InfernoSTi on June 29, 2010, 06:00:32 PM
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Hi guys!
I'm new to the forum and thought I ought to make a first post.
A little background, I have a small number of little tube amps: an original MiniWatt, a Jolida FX-10, and a 6CL6 SPUD I built from Jerry's kit over at Hawthorne Audio. I wanted to try out a Bottlehead kit and felt the next obvious step would be an 2A3/45 SE amp. Since I enjoyed the process of building my SPUD very much, I figured the Stereomour would fit the bill perfectly!
I'm used to small watt amps, so power isn't really a concern to me (I listen in a small room with 96 db speakers). My question is are there any recommendations on going with the 2A3 verses the 45 tubes? I'm fairly novice to the tube world but have read good things about the 45's, so my uneducated leaning is that direction at the moment. Anyone care to reinforce that idea or steer me in the 2A3 direction instead? The WHY you recommend one over the other is of interest.
Great forum, by the way!
Thanks, John
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This isn't meant to sound snarky, try it yourself and tell us! I read tons and tons when trying to decide whether I should order the Paramount 2a3 or 300B version. Agonized over it for some unknown reason. I went 300B. But I picked up some old 2a3 and had to try them out along with the Shuguang 2a3c. I now believe for me that the difference between the two isn't that big of a deal so I stick with the 300B, might as well have the extra power. But the smart bet would be on me switching back sometime just because I can. You may decide otherwise as it regards 2a3 or 45 but you will never know for sure until you hear it for yourself. And since you are getting an amplifier that does both and are officially a Bottlehead, you are required by the bylaws to experiment and report back. ;) Have fun whatever you decide. Sorry I can't answer your question directly but if I was in your shoes I would build the 2a3 first and listen. Buy a pair of old stock 2a3 (or the Shuguang 2a3c) and then listen to those. Pick up a pair of 45s when you can and then give them a listen and just see what you think and also pay attention to how well the 45s drive your 96db speakers given the music you prefer. Then you will know.
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By the way, is ordering it with 45 tubes even an option? I don't think it is. So from my perspective all the more incentive to just go ahead and build it for 2a3 first since you will have those tube anyway and then start your experimentation.
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I think you get a set of 2A3
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I have only heard a few 45 amps. And I heard them on speakers that were happy with that power. They are addictive. If you think you will do well with a 45 output tube go for it ! ! ! ! !
Upgrading the iron with the 45 in mind will make a substantial difference too.
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Guys, you make excellent points...and the logic of "it comes with 2A3s so try that first" is self-evident. I'm glad to hear of success using the HAs with a 45 amp. Thank you for all the quick and thoughtful responses! I feel welcomed to the Bottlehead community indeed. John
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When you get the Stereomour, read over the instructions for switching tubes. There are four large power resistors that are disconnected for use with 45s - you might want to install them in a way that allows disconnecting and re-connecting easily. If you settle on the 45 permanently, you can just clip the leads and remove those resistors.
While you are experimenting, remember you can plug a 2A3 into a Stereomour that is set up for 45s. Performance (power, mostly) is in between but closer to the 45. It's a third option. The reduced plate dissipation will extend the life of a 2A3 somewhat.
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Paul,
That is great advice on doing some selective "pre-switching" planning. And I am interested in the idea of running the 2A3s in the 45 configuration. You say the power is the main issue? What sonic compromises would you anticipate? If they are truly minimal, that might be a great alternative for those of us who aren't needed the extra (I'm laughing as I write "extra" meaning 3.5 watts instead of 1.75 watts) power. The ease of swapping from one to the other would be a great convenience (pending no significant sonic issues)!
John
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And PJ, to add to that last question, what changes may be recommended to the PF cap? Leave it in the middle at 3.3, or shoot for something closer to 5 uF? Would you also change the plate choke?
Thanks,
Jim
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And another question (this may be answered somewhere on the boards already, so I apologize for a double post if that is the case):
Is there any worry about using the EML 2A3 tubes in the Stereomour? I assume not, but wanted to ask to be sure. From what I'm reading, there are some very nice 2A3 tubes that folks are comparing to 300B and Type 45 tubes (generally speaking), and one of those is the EML 2A3-S solid plate. However, some of the other amps are requiring a soft start board for those particular tubes.
Thanks, John
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John,
The EMLs should be fine in this design as it is cap coupled, and not direct couped like the Paramounts.
I've not heard the EMLs yet myself, but I will say that the Shuguang Treasure 2A3zs in my Fi monos are outstanding. They do take forever and a day to reach their best sound, but when they get there...
Don't poo-poo the Sovteks either, they are actually quite decent, and the Sophia Premium 2a3 balloons and JJ 2a3-40s can also be really nice in the right system.
-- Jim
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Thank you, Jim. I will look up these tubes...that will give me something to do while we wait! I am still at the deciding to go 2A3 or 45 route thought process...after reading up on some of the 2A3s, I may be sticking with that tube for a while! I will take a look at the Shuguang Treasures. John
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John,
On the Treasures make sure you lookfor and get the Premium Grade A varety, and don't buy them on ebay or overseas.
Should have specified the mesh plates for the Sophias.
I've heard both 45s and 2a3s, and I think the 2a3s just give a slightly more harmonically rich tone -- to me, instruments just sound more like real wood, brass, etc. There are others who will say the same of the 45 too, so you're just going to have to experiment. Those Hawthornes are tone monsters, so the 45 may indeed end up being the better choice.
-- Jim
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I've been out of town for the Fourth (yes, the cabin is still standing!) so I'll try to answer several questions.
Running a 2A3 in a Stereomour set up for the 45 will run the tubes at very close to the same operating point - 35mA and 275v plate to cathode. The lower plate resistance of the 2A3 would normally make me want a slightly higher load impedance; the 4K standard is 0.8 times my target. But my choice of load impedance is pretty conservative; many commercially-available amps use an even lower impedance. In fact, the Paramour II upgrade runs at 0.75 of my target. In both cases, the large plate choke inductance minimizes tube distortion at the lowest frequencies, compensating for the slight distortion increase of the low impedance. Then lower impedance will also raise the efficiency. I have not done a full set of measurements yet, so I will only guess at 2 to 2.5 watts for the 2A3 in 45 mode. At a guess, the power and distortion differences will be no more and possibly less audible than the intrinsic differences between the tubes.
Calculated uptimum values for the parafeed cap are 2.5uF for 2A3, 5uF for 45 or 2A3 in 45 mode. The range from half to twice the optimum is considered suitable, which is why the stock 3.3uF is used for either tube. A further consideration is that the smaller capacitor protects the tube from distorting due to low load impedance at infrasonic frequencies, which is of course more likely to be triggered with a lower-powered amp - hence a slightly small parafeed cap with the 45 is part of the plan. Experimentation with these values is quite reasonable, because of the interactions possible with real-world speakers.
(Parenthetically, I have posted a different but similarly exotic reason for the 3.3uF in Paramour I and II where that value is larger than the theoretical optimum. The cynical will have noted that all these ideas lead in the end to the same cap value of 3.3uF :^) I maintain nevertheless that this is just a fortunate coincidence. Really and honestly, I do.)
I still do not know what to say about the EML tubes. They do not like certain kinds of startup transients - EML is quite straightforward about this on their web site, and they have been helpful in identifying and diagnosing problems. In most cases, a cap-coupled circuit such as Stereomour is considered safe with those tubes, as long as the time constant is short enough. Many people with many different cap-coupled amps are very happy with these tubes. Our time constant is 25mSec. I would say that is "normal" while a few more exotic amps have longer time constants, up to 5 times as long. I do not have enough detailed information to do a design that is "known to be safe" - I kind of suspect nobody does. That critical time constant probably depends on several other variables, which is probably why nobody will specify a specific universal safe value. I am not going to purchase ten pairs of EML tubes in order to do destructive testing to discover those limits! So, while I think it very unlikely there will be any problems, I won't make any promises and Bottlehead won't cover your expenses.
The PC board in Stereomour will be the same, and can be configured for, a startup time delay - but the parts are not included and I still have some cautions about the EML tubes with those boards. Even with the startup delay, the amp needs to stay off for a long time once turned off - I am saying 30 minutes at this point - in order for the slow start to re-arm itself.
Hope all that is helpful.
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Thanks, Paul. I've got some decent but cheaper caps to play woith for the PF, but when the right value is found, if it happens to be any different than 3.3 uF, then I'll probably want to put some jupiters in there.
I've also been toying with the idea of a 12 sn or sl7 as a driver, but of course I want to hear the stock design first. One thing that is potentially interesting about the 12sl7 is it's low heater current -- 150 mA -- and the possibility for a DC filament. Looks like it will be close, butmay work.
-- Jim
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The 12.6 volt winding should be good for 0.5 amps, so a DC heater would be practical. Note that the winding also serves as a shield and should be grounded. In the stock design, the 12AT7 filament center tap is used to ground that winding.
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Well, upon lots of consideration, I intend to stick with the 2A3 design.
That being the case, I was able to pick up a set of four RCA 2A3 tubes dating from the early 1940s to compare to the Sovteks that come with the amp. I also picked up a Mullard CV4024 (military type 12AT7) that should match well with the RCAs. Since we all love the A/B comparisons, I figure this will be a good place to start!
In the meantime, I am building some DIY room treatments and have a 3 pack of Owens Corning 703 4" rigid insulation and some nice natural color burlap coming in. Gotta keep busy with a project!
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Very good choices, almost too good. To get any better you are going to be searching for Telefunken 12at7 and single plate 2a3... But seriously, you have some good stuff there and you are definitely going to enjoy it.
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Thanks, Paully, I appreciate the vote of confidence. Now I know what to keep my eye out for, too! I appreciate the tips! Just got lucky getting these from a guy who was selling his 2A3 amp and had his "stash" to get rid of. Funny how that works out just right sometimes.
John
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Calculated uptimum values for the parafeed cap are 2.5uF for 2A3, 5uF for 45 or 2A3 in 45 mode. The range from half to twice the optimum is considered suitable, which is why the stock 3.3uF is used for either tube. A further consideration is that the smaller capacitor protects the tube from distorting due to low load impedance at infrasonic frequencies, which is of course more likely to be triggered with a lower-powered amp - hence a slightly small parafeed cap with the 45 is part of the plan. Experimentation with these values is quite reasonable, because of the interactions possible with real-world speakers.
(Parenthetically, I have posted a different but similarly exotic reason for the 3.3uF in Paramour I and II where that value is larger than the theoretical optimum. The cynical will have noted that all these ideas lead in the end to the same cap value of 3.3uF :^) I maintain nevertheless that this is just a fortunate coincidence. Really and honestly, I do.)
Hi Paul,
From the picture on the bottlehead site it appears these caps are Solen. Given what you say above and given that I am building the 2A3 circuit would it be advantagous to use a 2.5 or 2.7 uF value in an upgraded cap such as the Mundorf silver/oil? Pardon me for being a nub. FWIW, I will be driing a Lowther DX4 in a horn cab.
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Within the range I talked of (half to twice the "theoretical" value) it's hard to predict what value will work best in a given system. The reason is the interaction of the cap and plate choke with the speaker's impedance, which in most cases fluctuates quite a lot in the deep bass. I can generalize - tighter, cleaner, but not as deep bass with the smaller cap - but I can't be confident that's what you'll hear in your room with your speakers.
As usual, I recommend you build it stock first, then experiment with different caps if you are interested. The difference between 2.5uF and 3.3uF will be small; the difference between a Solen and a Mundorf may well be larger, subjectively at least.
Here's what I'd do if I wanted to get a lot of information: I'd build it stock, and give it at least 100 hours of music to be sure the cap is broken in and my ears have become accustomed to the sound of this amp. Then I'd swap in the Mundorf, again for at least 100 hours. Then I'd add the Solens back, in parallel with the Mundorf, and try to hear the effect of the larger capacitance. The capacitance effects will be mostly in the deep bass, while the capacitor sonic differences would likely be throughout the audio band and especially in the treble. Based on the results of those trials, I'd choose the one I liked the best, or decide what other things to try.
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I would make the suggestion that you experiment with cheaper caps of different values first. Then when you zero in on the value that reaponds best invest in the high dollar caps. I'm a fan of Obbligato Film and Oil caps, their cheapest. You could use a hand full of those to decide on the value then go to the Mundorfs.
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Thanks Paul and Grainger49 for the excellent advice on the caps.
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Well, I want to give a big "THANK YOU" to Bottlehead for their Stereomour kit!
Excellent instructions, an easy build, and 30 feet of wire! I put mine together after work Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and quite a bit on Saturday and Sunday.
My resistance checks were all spot on and my voltage checks were tolerable (but not as close as I would have liked...more on this in a bit). Since everything was within 15% and there wasn't any "magic smoke" released, so I plugged in my OB Hawthorne Duets and oh WOW!!!
Rich, smooth, music with amazing detail, special placement/soundstage, silky highs, and buttery mids. Everything I want in a tube amp!!! And I can't wait until it breaks in a bit (I'm typing after about 30 minutes of operation on the stock tubes). My hum is only 0.28 mA on the right channel and 0.33 mA on the left channel.
So my only worry is that a four of my readings are right on the edge of acceptable (the vast majority of reading are either spot on or within 6-7%). However, I have a handful that are 10-15%, so I figure I'd ask folk's opinions to see if I should worry (or just grab an adult beverage and listen to some music and stop nit picking!). I need to mention that my mains VAC measures 123 VAC (not the test 119VAC).
Here are the handful of high readings (just the big ones, not the 6-7% readings):
Terminal Expected Actual Variance %
T2 230 207 -10%
T14 230 194 -15%
OA 230 207 -10%
OB 230 194 -15%
Should I worry? It is on the ragged edge but everything sounds WONDERFUL!!!!
Thanks a bunch!
John
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You got NO PROBLEM.
It's a good illustration of the complexity of making good tests. The points you identify are the driver plate voltage. Because the driver is running under fixed bias, this point will vary more like 20% or even 30% - 2 or 3 times the variation expected at more stable points. This is because of variations in individual tubes. It's just too confusing to try to say this in the manual.
If you look at the schematic, you'll see that my theoretical values for these points were 200 volts. The actual first production unit measurements were 230 volts, so that's what is in the manual - we use real measurements rather than theory. Your measurements are much closer to the theoretical value, which is based on the published tube curves, so I think you have just validated my theoretical calculations - thanks!
:^)
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You got NO PROBLEM.
Thank you for the quick reply, Paul. And your answer is music to my ears! I didn't think the Stereomour could sound this good and have a problem!
It's a good illustration of the complexity of making good tests. The points you identify are the driver plate voltage. Because the driver is running under fixed bias, this point will vary more like 20% or even 30% - 2 or 3 times the variation expected at more stable points. This is because of variations in individual tubes. It's just too confusing to try to say this in the manual.
If you look at the schematic, you'll see that my theoretical values for these points were 200 volts. The actual first production unit measurements were 230 volts, so that's what is in the manual - we use real measurements rather than theory.
I appreciate the detailed background, and I'm certain others will too. This starts to help me understand the what and the why (and gives me a place to start looking for more info on the topic).
Your measurements are much closer to the theoretical value, which is based on the published tube curves, so I think you have just validated my theoretical calculations - thanks!
That's what we are here for, Paul. You just keep dreaming up great designs and we will keep proving them up in practice!
Cheers! John
(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hawthorneaudio.com%2Fphotos%2Falbums%2Fuserpics%2F11473%2Fphoto-201.JPG&hash=b996496ffbb1eed48e36795f4696cbc6dd453587) (https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hawthorneaudio.com%2Fphotos%2Falbums%2Fuserpics%2F11473%2Fphoto-202.JPG&hash=ec8cba2ec0b36393fdf55500e298909b66c0c7e1)
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I have about 60+ hours on the Stereomour now and I wanted to post what I believe will become a very familiar posting as more folks build the Stereomour: the first few hours were really sweet but then I hit about 40 hours of "tightness" in the music. At about 50+ hours, the sweetness started coming back and in a serious way!
The bloom on this amp is distinctively noticeable. However, I don't feel there was only one area that was more notable; it is generally across the board. That being said, what caught my attention first were the cymbals; I had one of those "hey wow, that sounds really nice, I need to pay attention" moments.
I assume the burn-in can be noticeable for a few more hours, say 100+, but after that I assume it will settle into a nice, steady state where I can roll a few tubes and such and not worry that changes in sound are burn-in, rather than due to the changed tubes?
John
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John,
The labeling you did under the chassis will be good when you went to tweak. Not to mention it can help you find your way through the circuit. I'm experienced but label everything.
The Solen Parafeed caps will be 98% settled out in 100 hours. More expensive, and often better sounding, caps take longer. I am burning in Teflon caps for 3 weeks now to get rid of the hard and congested days.
I have the first generation Paramours, two little "mono blocks." And I am very happy with the sound. I am as sure as you that anyone with appropriate speakers will love the Stereomour.
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Grainger,
Thank you! It is great to hear that you still enjoy your Paramours...that is the real test of sound quality if you still have them!
The labeling felt a bit odd writing on a beautiful blank chassis but it was a great help while building. I hadn't thought about it, but it will help down the road, too.
Thanks for the info on the Solen's. I think I will be rolling different tubes over the weekend just because I can't wait any longer! I have to confess I have already swapped in a JJ 12AT7 and it was a really nice tube. It has a signature that is pleasing to my ear. I will be trying some old RCA 2A3s and JJ 2A3-40s, as well as some NOS 12AT7s (a few of the classics).
I have also ordered some Auricap 3.3uF caps to swap out with the Solen's at some point. Based on the postings, that seems like a popular swap for a (relatively) small price.
I can attest that Hawthorne Audio + Stereomour = Heavenly sounds!!! I am really loving the Stereomour's signature coming through the HA's!
John
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There is a thing I say, and often, about expensive caps. They are like seasoning. I might like cinnamon you might like nutmeg. At the cost of some caps, over $100 each, you can be horribly disappointed with the wrong ones.
To heap insult upon injury the more expensive the capacitor the longer it takes to get to the final sound it will produce. The more expensive Black Gates, Mundorfs, V-Caps and any Teflon cap can take weeks to come to rest as far as the sound goes. Less patient men may not get there.
Tell us more about the Hawthorne Audio Duets, I'm not familiar with them.
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Grainger,
I understand what you are saying about caps: I think I'll focus more on tube rolling than cap rolling for a while. I'm not certain you can really learn an amp until you have lived with it in a static state for some time. One needs to be comfortable that you can hear subtleties and that just takes time.
Thank you for asking about the Hawthorne's. These are an open baffle speaker that is purpose designed as such. The Hawthorne's are rated at 96db and are designed with low watt SET amps in mind. They are often set up with either a single driver/tweeter combo or as a "duet" with an additional bass augmenter speaker or even as a "trio" with two additional bass augmenters. Some recent experiments with five 10" bass augmenters has yielded very fast, detailed, and musical bass response for the handful of brave souls who have tried this set up. Everyone tries their own baffle design and configuration. Mine is a "1015 Duet" style. I use a narrow top of the baffle to keep a fast mid and upper range, while I have a wider bottom to aid in bass response (with OB, you can "tune" the sound by the baffle shape/size).
My current setup is a 1" compression driver center firing through the cone section of a 10" mid-woofer. This gives the benefits of both a crossover speaker (letting each driver handle the range it is good at) and the pinpoint detail of a full range speaker due to the unique configuration of the compression tweeter. I also have 15" bass augmenters that I am bi-amping in true stereo with two Rythmik plate amps with a special OB "shelf" design. I'm not an expert on the specifics but Rythmik worked hard to develop an OB version of their Servo plate amp. Having these in stereo really adds to the imaging, particularly on drums and such.
Front showing 10" and 15" drivers (CD tweeter center mounted in the cone of the 10"):
(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hawthorneaudio.com%2Fphotos%2Falbums%2Fuserpics%2F11473%2Fnormal_photo-211.JPG&hash=597c896dcea88bceaa39b8443dd32e79b64bde6f)
Back showing 10" and 15" drivers (CD tweeter center mounted in the cone of the 10") and remote crossover:
(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hawthorneaudio.com%2Fphotos%2Falbums%2Fuserpics%2F11473%2Fnormal_photo-212.JPG&hash=355a1e8f01a653cb475d73bc61845e6adab20be6)
in the left and right background, you can see the two plate amps:
(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hawthorneaudio.com%2Fphotos%2Falbums%2Fuserpics%2F11473%2Fnormal_photo-210.JPG&hash=0249f935d37252186381c3127af33ff34b489420)
Basically, I drive the compression tweeter and 10" mid-woofer with my SET amp and send a split signal via RCAs to each of my two Rythmik amps. The idea is to maximize each of the strengths of the components to have as few compromises as possible. There doesn't seem to be an end to how far folks can take this (and I'm just in the beginning of my OB journey). The sound is a very present, highly detailed quality with lots of 3D soundstage. Moving the speakers a bit can adjust the dipole delay to create more/less depth, which is really fun!
Here is a professional review of a set of Hawthorne "Duet" speakers:
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue31/hawthorne.htm (http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue31/hawthorne.htm)
Hope that helps!
John
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Wow, I got it now. I have heard several open baffle designs, not this one. Some were hits some misses. I like the idea of the concentric drivers. It would have to be a better arrangement, phase wise, than a design with all the drivers mounted to the front baffle.
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Wow, I got it now. I have heard several open baffle designs, not this one. Some were hits some misses. I like the idea of the concentric drivers. It would have to be a better arrangement, phase wise, than all mounted to the front baffle.
Everyone is trying to find that "just right" sound for what they enjoy. For me, these are the direction that "does it" for me. I get lost in the music in a way that I have never before.
Now about that Stereomour: tonight I put in the JJ 2A3-40s and JJ 12AT7. I think I'm going to have a hard time rolling tubes as these seem to have the signature I love! They are fast, detailed, and have crisp yet soft extended highs. This amp with these tubes is blowing me away listening to Dire Straits "Dire Straits" on the new Japanese SACD. I hate that I sound like a hyperbolist but I'm loving the Stereomour!
I have to give a plug to Eurotubes for their great price on the 2A3-40 ($210/matched pair)...thanks Bob!
https://ssl.eurotubes.com/cart/index.php?page=product_details&category_id=3&product_id=2A3-40-2 (https://ssl.eurotubes.com/cart/index.php?page=product_details&category_id=3&product_id=2A3-40-2)
John
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I just finished up a satin black case for my Stereomour. I had already painted the bell housing satin black. Normally I do a wood stain but I asked Jeanine what she thought might be nice and she thought it would look good in black...I think she was right!
John
(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hawthorneaudio.com%2Fphotos%2Falbums%2Fuserpics%2F11473%2Fphoto-221.JPG&hash=70c73c59233c9f315f471440f1223150c45d7382)
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I think she is right too. Pure classic...John
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Thanks, John, you are right, the Stereomour is well suited for a classic look.
I have been itching to do a cap upgrade and finally did one last night and I'm really pleased with the results. First, I took out the two 3.3uF Solen caps and replaced them with Auricaps in a "super cap" configuration consisting of the base 3.3uF Auricap bypassed with 0.33uF and 0.022uF Auricaps. Second, I bypassed the 0.1uF coupling caps with 0.022uF Auricap caps.
The improvements did have a very nice affect on the sound quality of the Stereomour 2A3: the overall clarity increased (i'm not sure if this is a tonal improvement or if the soundstage is being better handled, or perhaps both), the extension of the upper end was improved (cymbals have a longer "splash" decay), and the width and placement of the soundstage increased (minor improvements).
As I said, I'm very happy with the results which didn't change the overall sound of the amp as much as make things I liked about the amp a bit better!
This isn't the greatest photo as you can only see three of the four new caps, but it shows the general idea:
(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hawthorneaudio.com%2Fphotos%2Falbums%2Fuserpics%2F11473%2Fnormal_photo-222.JPG&hash=2f6379488e70ee7be9e2c07cd5b9eec16a9fccbd)
Thanks, John
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Just thought I'd post an update: I've recently hooked up my Rega P1 with an Ortofon Blue cartridge and play it through my 2A3 and my Hawthorne Audio OB speakers (to which I've added a second pair of 15" giving four 15" woofers total plus the two 10" mids and the two compression horns). Wow! What a great combo for the price...lots of midrange bloom and just enough upper end extension/decay to sound great...and the bass is effortless bi-amping with two Rythmik amps plus the Stereomour 2A3. Lovely with Dire Straits, Van Morrison, Dr. John, etc.
John
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I've recently switched out the Auricaps for Mundorf Silver/Oil caps in the parafeed and coupling cap spots.
(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hawthorneaudio.com%2Fphotos%2Falbums%2Fuserpics%2F11473%2Fphoto-288.jpg&hash=6adbb54cd55feeffaff1b2f4a7785a4e1ba74ece) (https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hawthorneaudio.com%2Fphotos%2Falbums%2Fuserpics%2F11473%2Fphoto-287.JPG&hash=45662a89ff911702dd20ac7f2f7cb6a9de106c8f)
I used the 2.7uF and 0.1uF caps, respectively. They are significantly larger than the Auricaps but locating them was easy with the 0.1uF going below and in front and the 2.7uF going above and centered (a "hanging" cap location).
The improvement is dramatic and well worth the $200 for the four caps. Silky smooth upper end, detail across the entire range (the texture of the instruments is much more present, as well as the sound stage being smoother while maintaining detailed separation of instruments). Finally, their is a more dynamic presence to the music (the bass sounds punchier and the horns have a more biting leading edge, for example). The tone, texture, and dynamic nature of these caps is really a treat. It makes listening very direct and creates a strong emotional connection to the music. I couldn't be happier!
I have to give credit to Ed (ebag4) for trying these out first and telling me how great they sounded to him....thank you, Ed!
John
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Hi John,
I am glad to hear you are enjoying the Mundorfs. I have to tell you that those cute little caps are not big, these are big:
(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hawthorneaudio.com%2Fphotos%2Falbums%2Fuserpics%2F10060%2FAmpOhm_Parafeed.JPG&hash=9e107742d21bb42c940a4588a29afd59a7a8c7f0)
And I thought you were from Texas?? ;-D
Best,
Ed
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John,
Glad to hear you're enjoying the sio caps. I can only imagine that setup you have sounds terrific.
Ed, are those the ampohm aluminum/poly/oil caps? I've got a pair of those in 3.9 uF size for my stereomour though I may end up going with those in my FPIII+ and use something a bit smaller in the stereomour seeing aas the bass with the v-2s isn't going to be an issue.
Of course they may not fit nicely in the foreplay, so who knows.
-- Jim
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Hi Jim,
Yes, I put the AmpOhm 2.2uF Alum/Poly/Oil caps in place of the Obbligato cluster I had in the Parafeed Ckt. I like the AmpOhms better than the Obbligatos in this circuit, they have given me a bit more "air" than I was getting with the Obbligatos.
Best,
Ed
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Hahaha, Ed, yes, THOSE are real caps indeed! :-) At first I thought you had photoshopped some beer cans into that photo.... I'm glad you are getting good results out of those monsters!
Jim, thank you...I didn't think the improvement would be so great...this is my first time with Mundorf silver/oil and I think I'm hooked! Thank you for sharing your use of the AmpOhms, too...it sounds like you and Ed are thinking along the same lines (great minds, right?!!!).
I am going through an upgrade cycle and needed to improve my amp to the standards that the other improvements are (hoped to) going to set. I am switching out the compression drivers on my speakers from the el-cheapo but very good sounding Eminence ASD1001 drivers and basic crossovers to a set of Radian 475PB drivers and upgraded crossovers (using Mundof caps and Alpha Core inductors, etc). These are the Hawthorne Audio "Sterling" series compression drivers/crossovers. I have already added a second set of 15" augmenter drivers so I have four 15" drivers handling everything under 100 Hz. They sound amazing even at low volume (lots of effortless air movement).
The cap upgrade to the Stereomour is spot on for the direction I am trying to go with the system. I wanted to get them installed and burned in before I made the switch to the Radians/Sterling crossovers so I could isolate each step rather than doing them all at once. I have to say the improvements from the Mundorf caps in the amp are very satisfying even with the entry grade Eminence drivers.
John
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I used the 2.7uF and 0.1uF caps, respectively. They are significantly larger than the Auricaps but locating them was easy with the 0.1uF going below and in front and the 2.7uF going above and centered (a "hanging" cap location). . .
John
Hi John,
I am glad to hear you are enjoying the Mundorfs. I have to tell you that those cute little caps are not big, these are big: . . .
And I thought you were from Texas?? ;-D
Best,
Ed
John, Ed! There is no use in arguing whose is/are bigger!
Sorry, I couldn't pass this up.
The higher the voltage rating and the larger the capacitance value the larger any design gets. I'm impressed that the 1200V Mundorfs are that small.
Still, I like pictures of big caps. Now it is your turn.
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John, Ed! There is no use in arguing whose is/are bigger!
Agreed. And it isn't the size of the cap, it's what you do with it, right? I've been practicing this line since high school and it STILL doesn't work! Hahaha!!!!
Still, I like pictures of big caps.
Some people like to look, Grainger. Quite natural and nothing to be ashamed of....
20 hours in and they sound great! I've got Steely Dan "Gaucho" in 24/96 playing and it sounds like a million dollars!
John
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John,
I'm sure you're going to be floored at the sound with the upgraded tweeters and crossovers.
I'm considering some 10" augies to put in an OB H-frame sub, though the temptation to go servo OB is pretty strong too. These would be to augment my lowthers and/or zigmahornets and I want to stick with natural fiber cones.
TThe SIOs will be even better at 50 hours and should be all the way there by 200, though it seems at 100 you'll be most of the way there.
Looking forward to the report on the whole thing, especially after the tweeter and crossover upgrades.
-- Jim
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I'm sure you're going to be floored at the sound with the upgraded tweeters and crossovers.
The SIOs will be even better at 50 hours and should be all the way there by 200, though it seems at 100 you'll be most of the way there.
Looking forward to the report on the whole thing, especially after the tweeter and crossover upgrades.
Jim,
Thank you for the insight. The SIOs seem a little tighter now than they did the first few hours...I'm pleased they will "bloom" around 50 hours because even a bit tight, they sound wonderful! The tweeter/crossover upgrade is one I have been wanting but there was no use in going there until I made some further improvements to my system (from source to amp upgrades to room treatments). I believe that it is best to bring the whole system up rather than going all in with one part of the system. Now that I have a solid foundation, I will be able to appreciate and enjoy the "Sterling" upgrade even more.
I'm considering some 10" augies to put in an OB H-frame sub, though the temptation to go servo OB is pretty strong too. These would be to augment my lowthers and/or zigmahornets and I want to stick with natural fiber cones.
I believe the Hawthorne Augies are one of the great bargains in audio today. I would think you would be happy with them. I'm using two Rythmik 370 plate amps in stereo and it is a real revelation in musical bass. I really can't help out with the choice between an H OB or a Servo OB...I've only used regular OB with mine.
I think one of the questions is the nature of the bass from a 10" Augie compared to the 15" Augie. They are faster and detailed yet don't reach so deep and don't move as much air per unit. Folks have had luck with a tower of 10's (four per side) where they gain both the extra speed and still move masses of air effortlessly.
There is also discussion that placing the OB Augies up in the air couples with the room differently and produces a much more accurate double bass and other acoustic bass. Others like myself go with two 15" Augies per side and really like the results. If you are looking for speed and musicality, the 10" is a good choice.
Regarding your choice of the main speakers, the Augies blend very well with many speakers, as you know. Here is a recent example of a project such as what you are thinking about, perhaps: http://www.hawthorneaudio.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4033 (http://www.hawthorneaudio.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4033)
Good luck with your project...I know you will enjoy the journey. And likewise, please post your results no matter what route you choose to follow!
John
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Hi John,
Took a quick look at that thread and see that it is Randy Rash, who I've corresponded with in the past, especially about his Type 10 amp from Greenvalve.
I still have to figure out which speaker is going to go where in my house before I make any decisions on subs. I generally don't like subs, but OB is another thing altogether. I recently convinced my wife to let me move the office part of my office into another room, which means I can dedicate the existing office to a listening room, however, e ven though the room is 10.5' x 16.5', I really only have a 10.5' square with which to work, so I'm not sure how well an O
bB will work in that setup. If it does, it will do so just barely and with the listening chair rght up against the back wall.
FYI, the GR-Research SA-1 plate amps also have the OB shelving filter and 20 hz HP filter and are intended for sealed or OB subs.
Danny is also now in production of the first run of his new 8" servo OB driver, alongwith a purpose designed amp from Brian Ding. That may be the only setup that has a prayer of keepin up with the Lowthers (dx-55s with aluminum VCs and high-ferric). I would probably also use a single enclosure with two drivers and place them between the mains, as I'm told this will not kill the soundstage as with other types of subs.
Anyway, getting a bit far O/T here, but I appreciate the links and I'll keep reading.
Wonder if anybody has ever built a full 10" trio -- seems like that would be really quick and articulate with decent enough bass for my small room. Oh well, then I'm back to the question of whether the OBs will work in this room at all... :-)
Thanks again,
Jim
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I used the 2.7uF and 0.1uF caps, respectively. They are significantly larger than the Auricaps but locating them was easy with the 0.1uF going below and in front and the 2.7uF going above and centered (a "hanging" cap location). . .
John
Hi John,
I am glad to hear you are enjoying the Mundorfs. I have to tell you that those cute little caps are not big, these are big: . . .
And I thought you were from Texas?? ;-D
Best,
Ed
John, Ed! There is no use in arguing whose is/are bigger!
Sorry, I couldn't pass this up.
The higher the voltage rating and the larger the capacitance value the larger any design gets. I'm impressed that the 1200V Mundorfs are that small.
Still, I like pictures of big caps. Now it is your turn.
That will teach me not to drink and post! ;-)
Very funny Grainger!
Best,
Ed
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Took a quick look at that thread and see that it is Randy Rash, who I've corresponded with in the past, especially about his Type 10 amp from Greenvalve.
It's a small world, this DIY audio hobby, thanks to the internet. Randy a great guy and very knowledgeable. I'm glad you know him....
I still have to figure out which speaker is going to go where in my house before I make any decisions on subs. I generally don't like subs, but OB is another thing altogether. I recently convinced my wife to let me move the office part of my office into another room, which means I can dedicate the existing office to a listening room, however, e ven though the room is 10.5' x 16.5', I really only have a 10.5' square with which to work, so I'm not sure how well an OB will work in that setup. If it does, it will do so just barely and with the listening chair rght up against the back wall.
I'm coming out of a 10'x13' listening room where I had to set up the short distance, too. I found that I could get what I wanted better with OB than box, but I had to add a bunch of room treatments. For me (and your milage may vary), I found a combination of diffusion and bass traps were necessary. I placed a rear wall diffusor behind me listening chair that helped a little but if I had the space, a poly diffusor behind the chair would have helped tremendously, I believe. I just didn't have the foot of depth needed to accomplish that. I also found that a single front wall poly diffusor was very beneficial to the imaging with OB.
Another item was pulling the speakers out much closer than I expected they would be. The issue here is balancing the the front wall first reflection with the direct sound...in a small space you can get some fuzziness and when you find the sweet spot, it is like everything comes into focus. I found equal distance between the listing chair and the front wall was needed in the 10' space.
I used four 15" augies for a while in this room and it was wonderful. I had lots of bass traps, however. I had a bunch of Owens Corning 703 and a bunch of R-13 rolls in various configurations. Once I tamed the bass a bit with the traps, the four augies were effortless and detailed. Of course I was always playing at low levels given the room size (relatively speaking), so the added air movement really made an impact. Just something to consider.
FYI, the GR-Research SA-1 plate amps also have the OB shelving filter and 20 hz HP filter and are intended for sealed or OB subs.
Danny is also now in production of the first run of his new 8" servo OB driver, alongwith a purpose designed amp from Brian Ding. That may be the only setup that has a prayer of keepin up with the Lowthers (dx-55s with aluminum VCs and high-ferric). I would probably also use a single enclosure with two drivers and place them between the mains, as I'm told this will not kill the soundstage as with other types of subs.
Danny and Brian are good guys and very helpful/knowledgeable. I have other Danny designed speakers and of course the Rythmiks. I found that running my OB augies in stereo made a significant imaging difference, particularly with the drums, but also with other areas such as a double bass. I think with OB the idea that bass isn't directional is a wrong. I can A/B and always prefer the stereo set up. You may want to consider this idea, as well.
Wonder if anybody has ever built a full 10" trio -- seems like that would be really quick and articulate with decent enough bass for my small room. Oh well, then I'm back to the question of whether the OBs will work in this room at all... :-)
They current "best of class" with the 10" series is a Penta: four 10" augies per side with a 10" mid-woofer rounding out the five speakers. See below (Jim, I've attached photos for folks to look at but will link you to the thread to read the build which will give you a good idea of the product here: http://www.hawthorneaudio.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3709 (http://www.hawthorneaudio.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3709) ). I would think you would be very happy with 10" trios.
And yes, we are bit O/T....
John
(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hawthorneaudio.com%2Fphotos%2Falbums%2Fuserpics%2F10978%2Fdsc03331ss.jpg&hash=95215aa010a3502ac0a2edb66f9fa13ca915d14d)
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Those are my favorite Woodsage (Mike) build, I would love to hear them.
Best,
Ed
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John,, and they work really well in this room. When I've finished the lowthers and they're broken in, I'll compare them, and whoever wins, stays.
Now if I could only sell my cornwalls and upgrades I'd be a lot closer to being able to gt all this done.
Actually, your setup really does sound like it will be really pushing things as equidistant between front wall and listening position would put the left speaker in a really bad place. This is actually a good thing to have realized, and yesterday I just decided that I'm going to keep my Tonian speakers, fix the drivers a bit, rewire them and replace the series inductor on the mid/woofer (which is more of a full range than anything else). I love the sound of this speaker, especially with a 2a3
Also appreciate the info regarding stereo subs, so I'll definitely keep that in mind when and if that becomes necessary. The V-2s, stereomour, Piano CD player and AudioGD dac with audiophilleo2 and linux music server box should be an excellent system and that will work great in the living room. Nothing else to add -- subs are already part of the design as are the two sub amps.
All good stuff, and again, thanks for your advice and experience this has really helped me get on aclear path now.
-- Jim
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Well, someho tat last message got butchered, but the upshot is that I'm holding on to my Tonian Labs TL-D1s for the listening room. Then when I have the lowthers ready, then we'll see which pair stays.
Good stuff.
-- Jim
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I tried a bit of tube rolling with the 12AT7: I had picked up a set of Telefunken 12AT7 (ECC81) tubes August 2010 but never tried one out in the Stereomour. Now that I have 50+ hours on the Mundorf SIO caps (they have stopped their major fluctuations in sound and are settling in very nicely), it is time to roll a driver tube!
WOW!!!
That Telefunken is detailed, musical, light/airy, and quiet (no hum, whine, or microphonics). The emphasis with this tube is the upper mid-range and upper end. The result is a lot of detail...crisp yet warm is the sound I would say. If it were a color, I'd say silvery. The cymbals sound amazing, as do horns and pianos.
The Telefunken is really a nice driver tube: it was recommended by Paully before I got the Stereomour and on his comment, I picked a set up last summer on Audiogon. I am really pleased with how well it blends with the JJ/Tesla 2A3-40's and the Mundorf SIO caps. This is really a pleasure to listen to this evening.
John
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Very cool to hear John. I will be ordering the Pavane 12AT7 at the end of the week when the folks from Grant Fidelity return from the California show(s). I am anxious to hear what other driver tubes do in the Stereomour, and with it requiring only a single tube it makes it quite cost effective to try a few.
Enjoy!
Ed
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Very cool to hear John. I will be ordering the Pavane 12AT7 at the end of the week when the folks from Grant Fidelity return from the California show(s). I am anxious to hear what other driver tubes do in the Stereomour, and with it requiring only a single tube it makes it quite cost effective to try a few.
Enjoy!
Ed
Well, I have to give props to Ed. The Pavane 12AT7-T is better than my Telefunken. The first hour was very bright but after only 5+ hours, they are much more balanced, musical, and really, really extended (bass and upper end). Detail is more dynamic and everything sounds "richer" than before. I guess Ed knows what he is talking about after all.... (Just messing, Ed. I really appreciate the tip. This Stereomour just keeps getting better and better!)
EDIT: the tube is still "burning in" so it has gone through some nice times and also some times with a bit of glare/harshness. I'll report back after 50+ hours of use when I imagine the tube will have settled into whatever it's general character will be. And then I will try my Telefunken again to see what that sounds like "new" again.
John,
I'm sure you're going to be floored at the sound with the upgraded tweeters and crossovers.
I'm considering some 10" augies to put in an OB H-frame sub, though the temptation to go servo OB is pretty strong too. These would be to augment my lowthers and/or zigmahornets and I want to stick with natural fiber cones.
TThe SIOs will be even better at 50 hours and should be all the way there by 200, though it seems at 100 you'll be most of the way there.
Looking forward to the report on the whole thing, especially after the tweeter and crossover upgrades.
-- Jim
Jim,
I PM'ed you on another forum but thought I would post my new horns/crossovers information here. Things are sounding really, really good here in Texas thanks to Bottlehead, Hawthorne Audio, and all the tips on tubes and caps from the forum!
The Radians and new crossovers are stunning! It is as if I have a whole new stereo system and I can't stop listening...much more detail and much smoother. Now just about anything sounds good and well recorded/mastered tracks sound amazing. All "natural" sounding if that makes sense.
The upper end is now much flatter and more extended. The tones are natural but it took me a while to get used to a flatter response. The old horns had a big bump at 2K Hz that really gave a strong "clank" to the sound of cymbals...it is surprising what you get used to hearing. Now that I've had over a month on these, I couldn't imagine going back.
The bass is tighter and more musical. So good that I started to get into a new round of room treatments to see how much I could get out of the bass from the Stereomour and Hawthorne SSIs. Those four 15" Augies in stereo really sound nice with the hardwire connection from the crossovers. A big improvement in an unexpected place.
Here are the crossovers with Alpha Core foil inductors and Mundorf Silver In Oil caps (BIG-UNS!!!):
(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hawthorneaudio.com%2Fphotos%2Falbums%2Fuserpics%2F10003%2FP5260050.jpg&hash=d22e422a6054f6a261e2c2fbb880255865b36336) (https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hawthorneaudio.com%2Fphotos%2Falbums%2Fuserpics%2F10003%2FP5260051.jpg&hash=4054b1975d4f08b22bbbeb5aef1d34838655a502)
Cheers,
John
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I guess Ed knows what he is talking about after all....
Let's not jump the gun John! ;-)
I am glad you are enjoying the Pavane. I didn't have much to compare it to so I am happy to hear that it bests the Tele..
Best,
Ed
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My latest move is to do the opposite of what Ed is doing, this time! While Ed just installed his volume pot, I just bypassed my volume pot and used high quality 100K Kiwame resistors in it's place (the cool looking light green carbon ones). I placed them at the RCA inputs.
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It sounds really nice to me...a little more dynamic and a little more clear, the combination of both means I'm enjoy music very much right now and even heard some new things I've never heard before in the background of my Cowboy Junkies "Long Journey Home Live." Now I'm enjoying Bill Evans Trio "Waltz for Debby" in 96/24.
This is a nice little tweak that cost me a short evening of fun and a couple of bucks in parts. Well recommended if you have the ability to use a different volume control. I'm going to be trying the Warpspeed Optocoupler (info on DIYAudio and AudioCircle) which is why I needed to make this quick mod. Even without the new passive pre, I'm liking the mod. Those Kiwame's match up nicely with the Mundorf Silver/Oil: my BH Stereomour is sounding soft/refined yet detailed/dynamic.
Cheers,
John
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Hi John,
Initially I didn't think I heard much of a trade off when I removed my 100K Caddocks and replaced them with the Alps pot. After more listening I determined that I did loose a bit of clarity. Unfortunately I don't have another volume control right now (I built an LDR but can't get rid of a hum issue so I don't use it). I am considering getting a high quality ladder type volume control and see how that works out.
I thought I might be able to adjust my resistor value and simply use the digital control in MPD for small changes but what I have found is that there is too much variance in the sound levels of of different albums, this means I require some level of adjust-ability in the analog domain so that I can limit the amount of digital adjustment used (less digital adjustment=better sound quality).
I will be interested to read your impressions of the Warpspeed.
Best,
Ed
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Hi John,
Initially I didn't think I heard much of a trade off when I removed my 100K Caddocks and replaced them with the Alps pot. After more listening I determined that I did loose a bit of clarity. Unfortunately I don't have another volume control right now (I built an LDR but can't get rid of a hum issue so I don't use it). I am considering getting a high quality ladder type volume control and see how that works out.
I thought I might be able to adjust my resistor value and simply use the digital control in MPD for small changes but what I have found is that there is too much variance in the sound levels of of different albums, this means I require some level of adjust-ability in the analog domain so that I can limit the amount of digital adjustment used (less digital adjustment=better sound quality).
I will be interested to read your impressions of the Warpspeed.
Best,
Ed
Ed,
I'm very happy with my initial impressions of volume pot bypassing with the Kiwame's. My solution with the adjustable volume on the DAC is good but I hope I prefer the Warpspeed. That being said, I'm sure there are many ways to skin the cat.
One avenue to explore may be "floating point" control of your DAC. I could be wrong, but recall it addresses the issue you identify. I will try to find a link and edit that in if I can. I will keep looking, but initially this is a brief description of what I am trying (poorly) to reference:
If Decibel's Exclusive Access Mode is enabled and the DAC supports integer input (footnote 2), Decibel will now send audio to the DAC as integers. Although audio files are stored as integers (whole numbers), a Mac internally converts audio data to 32-bit floating-point data, which allows mathematical processing (such as volume control and equalization). The floating-point data are reconverted to16- or 24-bit integer, as appropriate, before being sent to an audio device. Decibel's Integer Mode sends the unprocessed data straight to the device.
Another is to use a stepped attenuator rather than a volume pot. This will have a more direct signal path (again, if I recall correctly...there has been a lot of discussion on this Forum about that topic).
The Warpspeed has received two positive reviews from fellow Hawthorne Audio users on AudioCircle (Gooberdude and Johnnycopy). Perhaps I will have comments for you as early as November.
Cheers,
John
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Hey John and Ed,
Thanks for keeping us in the loop on your experiments -- all sounds good and especially in the aftermath of RMAF, I'm really anxious to get back on this project, so... soon, very soon. Got a few more bits to do in te shop and then the rest should just be wiring and mechanical assembly (as opposed to the woodwork, top plate prep, plating, painting, etc.
Ed, you may want to look into the goldpoint mini-v stepped attenuator -- it's not a ladder type, but the resistors it uses are very, very nice, as are the sealed Elma, swiss made hard gold switch contacts, all of which adds up to something that should be really, really close to a ladder type. Certainly a lot cheaper than a DACT too.
I recently found a pair of what so far has been my favorite 12at7 -- the 1950s Raytheon triple mica black plate types, so I've added those to my collection, including some teles and others, though another buddy of mine has had remarkable results with the psvanes in his gear, so I may jus have to try those too.
And Ed, your new dac definitely supports integer mode with PureMusic, but since you're running the linux box, I'm pretty sure MPD doesn't have integer mode capability, at least as of yet.
My Mac Mini is now off getting it's final frontier mod -- conversion to DC power, and will run off a sealed lead acid type battery with the Pi battery buss, which will also power the external firewire drive. That should be interesting indeed.
-- Jim
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Jim/John, thanks for the replies. My system is sounding pretty great now so I am in a holding pattern until I can build up additional funds in my audio piggy bank.
I will look into the Goldpoint unit. I still want to read more from John on the Warpspeed and Jim on the Final Frontier mod for your Tranquility SE. I am loving my SE BTW.
Jim, you are correct, MPD won't support integer mode, I do wonder what I am missing out on by using the Alix/MPD vs the Mac and Pure Music, but when I listen to the setup as it stands it sounds good enough I don't loose any sleep.
Best,
Ed
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Ed,
No, no, you've got this all wron -- you must continue t upgrade and tweak :-).
Well, while not the alix per se, I'm getting an Auraliti PK-100 for the living room system and to be used directly into the spdif connection on the AudioGD NFB-2 (which I just ordered the WM-8805 receiver chip upgrade for so I can go true 24/192. I wanted something that would be as close to plug and play as possible, which has no user interface per se, and if Linda has trouble with it when I'm not around, she can just reboot it and relaunch the client app and she should be back in business. It turns out to be about the same cost as a mini with the extra ram and SSD that sI feel is critical to maximizing the sonics, but without the setup and configuration hassles that even the mac can have.
You should seriously consider sending your SE to Dave at Pi so he can do some minortweaks and dunk the thing in the cryo tank -- a very nice upgrade for not much money, and the new output devices (free upgrade for the SE) are supposed to be a really sweet upgrade and will only cost shipping.
I should hear more about the status of my Nagas tonight, my rack should ship anyday now, and my SE, battery buss, and DC converted mini should be back later this week or early next, and then we'll be ready to rock and roll. BTW, the cornwalls will be going away this weekend -- not sold, just going to Ruben's for crating and short-term storage. Slowly, slowly it comes together.
Talk to you soon,
Jim
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Jim and Ed,
It is pretty amazing that the Bottlehead Stereomour can stand up to just about everything that I've thrown at it. With the tweaks, it certainly isn't the weak link yet (by a long shot).
That being said, the other things that seem to have made a big difference are my converting to a Mac Mini. I know I'm not all the way there like you, Jim, but the extra effort has been pretty easy to get to where I am.
Ed, I'm pretty excited about the Warpspeed. I should have that sometime in the next two weeks or so. I just confirmed which feet it will have (low or high profile...a pretty big choice!), so I know it's getting close to complete. At this point, I'd find it hard to beat just the two resistors and the DAC volume control, but you never know.
I've got another item coming in over the next week or two: a Prime 37 diffusor panel for my front wall. It's 4 feet tall and 6 feet wide!!! I had it made with a custom base that let's me avoid wall mounting it...I can move it from here to there pretty easy, I think. I will post a couple of comments once it arrives.
Also, I'm running full dipole based on converting my compression drivers to an open back configuration. I've got a "forum friend" making a set of hardwood "extenders" for the Radian compression drivers. This should help load the driver and avoid any magnetic flux from the mid-woofer. So pretty much fully custom Radians in a few weeks!
Jim, I agree, Ed needs to keep tweaking or it makes the rest of us look bad!
Also, I know I've read it a thousand times that AIFF sounds better than Apple Lossless. Well, I started converting my files with Max for Mac and I have to say how startling better AIFF is than Apple Lossless. I wish I had done that a long time ago!
Cheers,
John
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Just a quick update: I switched out my 100K resistors on the RCA input jacks to red bodied PRP resistors (Precsion Resistive Products 9372 audio series). These are a little more "clear" and a little less "soft" but who can really say with this kind of tweak! I just wanted to try out a second high quality resistor to see what I thought. I can recommend the Kiwame "greens" if you like a smooth, groovy kind of sound and the PRP "reds" if you like a clean, precise kind of sound. Both sound great, by the way...they just lean in different directions to my ear.
John
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Today is my Stereomour's one year birthday!!!! I love it more today than I did the first day but for all the same reasons only more so!!!! Thank you Doc and Paul for bringing this wonderful amp to my life. It's been a joy!
John
Well, I want to give a big "THANK YOU" to Bottlehead for their Stereomour kit!
Excellent instructions, an easy build, and 30 feet of wire! I put mine together after work Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and quite a bit on Saturday and Sunday.
My resistance checks were all spot on and my voltage checks were tolerable (but not as close as I would have liked...more on this in a bit). Since everything was within 15% and there wasn't any "magic smoke" released, so I plugged in my OB Hawthorne Duets and oh WOW!!!
Rich, smooth, music with amazing detail, special placement/soundstage, silky highs, and buttery mids. Everything I want in a tube amp!!! And I can't wait until it breaks in a bit (I'm typing after about 30 minutes of operation on the stock tubes). My hum is only 0.28 mA on the right channel and 0.33 mA on the left channel.
So my only worry is that a four of my readings are right on the edge of acceptable (the vast majority of reading are either spot on or within 6-7%). However, I have a handful that are 10-15%, so I figure I'd ask folk's opinions to see if I should worry (or just grab an adult beverage and listen to some music and stop nit picking!). I need to mention that my mains VAC measures 123 VAC (not the test 119VAC).
Here are the handful of high readings (just the big ones, not the 6-7% readings):
Terminal Expected Actual Variance %
T2 230 207 -10%
T14 230 194 -15%
OA 230 207 -10%
OB 230 194 -15%
Should I worry? It is on the ragged edge but everything sounds WONDERFUL!!!!
Thanks a bunch!
John
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John,
Congratulations! It's a very good sign when you like the amp even better after a year -- very few amps have lasted that long in my house :-).
Anybody who's on the fence about BH gear should see this.
-- Jim
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Congratulations John, I am glad to hear that you are still happy with the BH amp. I know I am very glad you and Jim Rebman pointed me in this direction, I am loving mine.
Best,
Ed
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My new speakers are almost ready to ship! Hawthorne Audio References (yes, those are eight 15" drivers and two 16" AMT horns. I can't wait to hear my Stereomour with these beauties:
(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hawthorneaudio.us%2Fforums%2Fdownload%2Ffile.php%3Fid%3D1066%26amp%3Bmode%3Dview&hash=0467bce9eb5cd03c645975057d15918875a24b67)
John
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John, just incredible. Mike does beautiful work, audio art. I can't wait to read your impressions.
Best,
Ed
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Well, the shorter baffles that hold the four 15" Augie woofers have been here for a while and they are really everything and a bag of chips! The main baffles have been at Bound For Sound being professionally reviewed...look for that in an upcoming issue! They should ship in May so it will be a great summer with the Stereomour and the Hawthorne References.
On an odd note, my system started sounding harsh last week and kept getting worse and worse...I finally asked for a second opinion which was that it really didn't sound clear (grungy, muddy, harsh, rolled off, missing the music, etc were the comments). So I swapped out my JJ Tesla 2A3-40 tubes just to try to isolate the issue (in go my old Sovteks with 250 hours on them) and bingo...the magic is back! So when the Sovteks sound WAY better than the 2A3-40s, I know I need new tubes. But it has only been 1 1/2 years...albeit I listen for hours and hours and hours and there has been way too much moving and turning things on/off etc. But I figured I'd get 3+ years at least from the JJ Tesla 2A3-40s. Anyway, I've order new ones and am enjoying the Sovteks very much...they sound so much better than the bad tubes (all things are relative).
Best,
John
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That is distressing about the 2A3-40s. Were they equally tired - not just one of them?
I too would have expected a long life from a 40-watt, 100mA tube operated at 15 watts and 50mA. Have you checked your power line voltage? That would affect the filament voltage, and too much filament voltage can shorten tube life - though I'd expect a blown filament in that case, not a worn cathode.
An anecdote is not a statistic, but I'm going to keep my ears open on this question for a while.
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Paul,
Thanks for the note. Turns out I'm simply a dumb dumb noggin with a "hashy" selector switch on my Eastern Electric DAC and, by simple coincidence, "tested" my A/B with tubes by "bumping" a dirty switch. When the switch isn't aligned right, I get a fuzzy, hashy glaze that I mistook for a tube issue. Figured it out when I switched over to a different input to listen to a SACD and had the "issue" with my RCA tubes. I was like, "whiskey tango foxtrot" what's going on?" Then I figured it out. So now I have a pair of back up JJ 2A3-40's that I won't be using for probably 10 years, as well as a really nice set of 1940s RCAs that sound great! And I need to clean my selector switch in my DAC.
Sometimes I don't mind being dumb...when it means I figure out that my Stereomour isn't eating robust tubes!
Best,
John
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Oh, man, that's a relief! :^)
1940s RCAs - sweet! I had a bunch of them when I was a kid (back when the crust of the earth was still cooling...) - pulls from the force balance in the UW wind tunnel (long story). They went to someone else when I went to college, and it was several decades before I realized what I'd lost. Also lost the big power transformers with 2.5v windings - when the tunnel replaced the tubed DC amplifiers.
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Hi John,
What Paul said! So glad you figured this out and that it isn't the tubes.
Guess you should be getting the other part of your speakers soon, eh?
Hope you're well,
Jim