Bottlehead Forum

Bottlehead Kits => Crack => Topic started by: mipheres on July 31, 2016, 02:27:03 AM

Title: CRACK OTL - Issues After First POWER ON [resolved]
Post by: mipheres on July 31, 2016, 02:27:03 AM
Hi,

Just finished building my CRACK OTL for HD650.
All "Resistance check" went OK
But almost all "Voltage Check" FAILED.
6080/6AS7 tube filaments glow weakly.
All B terminals are checked with 0V, same with As

I suspect the POWER TRANSFORMER.
Also how can the tube glow if all B inputs measure 0V?
maybe the volt-meter  is off?

Please assist.

Best Regards
YM.

Title: Re: CRACK OTL - Issues After First POWER ON
Post by: fullheadofnothing on August 01, 2016, 06:54:27 AM
Are you measuring AC or DC?

Is your meter auto-ranging? If not, what range are you using?
Title: Re: CRACK OTL - Issues After First POWER ON
Post by: Paul Birkeland on August 01, 2016, 08:44:22 AM
Where you are measuring "0V" are the terminals that make the tubes glow, so this is very likely a measuring issue. 

Try measuring the DC voltage of a 9V battery with your meter, just to get a feel for it.

-PB
Title: Re: CRACK OTL - Issues After First POWER ON
Post by: mipheres on August 01, 2016, 09:30:13 PM
Hi,

I set voltometer to VDC 20 and measure 1.6v from a new SIZE AA BATTERY---> meter works ok.
meter set to VDC 600 - power transformer terminal 6,7,9,10 -measure 074
meter set to VDC 20- power transformer terminal 4,5 -measure 0.00

meter set to VAC 600 - power transformer terminal 6,7,9,10 -measure 160
meter set to VAC 200- power transformer terminal 5 -measure 5.00
meter set to VAC 200- power transformer terminal 4 -measure 0.00
meter set to VAC 200- power transformer terminal 5 -measure 5.00
meter set to VAC 600- power transformer terminal 2 -measure 223
meter set to VAC 600- power transformer terminal 1 -measure 0


Title: Re: CRACK OTL - Issues After First POWER ON
Post by: Paul Birkeland on August 02, 2016, 11:40:44 AM
These measurements show that your power transformer is working perfectly.

Set to DC volts/200, can you let us know what voltages you have in your amplifier that don't match those in the manual?
Title: Re: CRACK OTL - Issues After First POWER ON
Post by: mipheres on August 02, 2016, 08:11:29 PM
Voltage Check
meter on 200VDC
terminal,recommended,measurement
1 ,75-90   ,-00.5
2 ,170      ,-00.5
3 ,0          , 0
4 ,170      ,-00.5
5 ,75-90   ,-00.5
6 ,0          ,0
7 ,100      ,0
8 ,0          ,0
9 ,100      ,0
10, 0        ,0
11, 0        ,0
12, 0        ,0
13, 170    ,-00.5
14, 0        ,0
15, 185    ,-00.5
20, 0        ,0
21, 206    ,218
A1, 90      ,-00.5
A2, 0       ,0
A4, 0       ,0
A5, 0       ,0
A6, 90     ,-00.5
A7, 0       ,0
A9, 0       ,0
B1, 90     ,-00.5
B2, 170   ,-00.5
B3, 100   ,0
B4, 90     ,-00.5
B5, 170   ,-00.5
B6, 100   ,0
B7, 0       ,0
B8, 0       ,0

Title: Re: CRACK OTL - Issues After First POWER ON
Post by: fullheadofnothing on August 03, 2016, 04:58:09 AM
The capacitor that is supposed to be on 14 and 15 is on 15 and 16.
Title: Re: CRACK OTL - Issues After First POWER ON
Post by: Paul Birkeland on August 03, 2016, 07:47:36 AM
15, 185    ,-00.5
21, 206    ,218


There's a 270 Ohm resistor that goes from 21 to 15.  Yours is not properly connected.
Title: Re: CRACK OTL - Issues After First POWER ON
Post by: mipheres on August 20, 2016, 10:21:23 PM
@fullheadofnothing
I moved the CAP to 14-15, see picture
@Caucasian Blackplate
the resistor seems connected ok , 15-21

the result is the same.
Can the 270Ohm capacitor be damaged?

Thanks guys...
Title: Re: CRACK OTL - Issues After First POWER ON
Post by: Paul Birkeland on August 24, 2016, 05:56:07 AM
The capacitor that you had improperly mounted may well be quite damaged.

You can remove it from the amplifier, then retest your voltages.  If the cap is the only issue, the amplifier will function properly but be too noisy to use (just replace the 220uf/250V cap with a new one if this is the case).

-PB
Title: Re: CRACK OTL - Issues After First POWER ON
Post by: mipheres on August 24, 2016, 09:59:54 PM
@Caucasian Blackplate
removed the suspected capacitor, same result.

measured the 270ohm resistor (15-21) and it looks off (see picture attached)
measuring the other 270ohm provided good result, also the 3k capacitor works ok.
I can remove the suspected resistor and measure it without other parts attached , if suggested.

Thanks.

Title: Re: CRACK OTL - Issues After First POWER ON
Post by: Paul Birkeland on August 26, 2016, 06:48:59 AM
Yeah, that resistor has opened up, most likely due to the placement of that 220uF capacitor.  Both the capacitor and that resistor need to be replaced before performing any additional tests. 

You will also want to carefully use a piece of insulated wire to short the leads on each side of that defective resistor for a while to bleed off any residual high voltage.

-PB
Title: Re: CRACK OTL - Issues After First POWER ON
Post by: mipheres on August 27, 2016, 09:48:37 PM
thanks, Caucasian Blackplate.

I guess the capacitor is an easy one to get but what about 270ohm resistor, Should I ask Bottlehead for those extra parts?

Title: Re: CRACK OTL - Issues After First POWER ON
Post by: Paul Birkeland on August 28, 2016, 09:39:46 AM
A 250 Ohm 10 Watt resistor should be easy to find, inexpensive, and will work just fine.  A 250 Ohm 5 Watt resistor will also work, but finding one with long enough leads may be difficult. 

-PB
Title: Re: CRACK OTL - Issues After First POWER ON
Post by: mipheres on September 28, 2016, 08:25:45 PM
Hi.

Got and installed new 250ohm resistor with 220uf capacitor.
started the voltage test and got OFF reading on first check.

Terminal_1 is reading 140V instead of
Also 3k-Ohm resistor is running very hot , so I switched off.
Did not continue testing the rest.

what do you suggest to do next ?

...

Title: Re: CRACK OTL - Issues After First POWER ON
Post by: Paul Birkeland on September 28, 2016, 08:26:59 PM
Check your solder joint that connects A4 and A5.
Title: Re: CRACK OTL - Issues After First POWER ON
Post by: mipheres on October 01, 2016, 10:14:34 PM
Hi,

As you can see A4-A5 are ok.

the reading from Terminals:
1-140v
2-160v
3-0
4-160v
5-80v

Also, the second led does not glow.

Title: Re: CRACK OTL - Issues After First POWER ON
Post by: Paul Birkeland on October 02, 2016, 06:32:48 AM
Inside the 12AU7 are two vertical plate structures.  Can you see little glowing dots and the top and/or bottom of each of these structures while the amp is running?
Title: Re: CRACK OTL - Issues After First POWER ON
Post by: mipheres on October 06, 2016, 04:36:49 AM
no , I dont see the small tube glow.
The bigger tube is working.
Title: Re: CRACK OTL - Issues After First POWER ON
Post by: Deluk on October 07, 2016, 01:40:19 AM
Make sure the unlit led is soldered to the central pin. It looks a bit suspect there. Small tube glow varies. Some hardly glow at all and only show when its dark.
Title: Re: CRACK OTL - Issues After First POWER ON
Post by: mipheres on October 18, 2016, 08:11:12 PM
Hi I made sure the led is soldered ok.

Still same result,
the voltage measurements are off
small tube does not glow
one of the leds does not lit.

Title: Re: CRACK OTL - Issues After First POWER ON
Post by: Deluk on October 19, 2016, 01:53:49 AM
Looks as if you have a link between A1 and A2. This shouldn't be there.
Title: Re: CRACK OTL - Issues After First POWER ON
Post by: mipheres on October 30, 2016, 09:51:22 PM
triple checked A1-A2 connection, Nothing there: A1 is not connected to A2.

What should I check next?
Title: Re: CRACK OTL - Issues After First POWER ON
Post by: Deluk on October 31, 2016, 02:30:52 AM
triple checked A1-A2 connection, Nothing there: A1 is not connected to A2.

Just looked at your picture again and have to say that I'm very surprised at that. What do others think?

Title: Re: CRACK OTL - Issues After First POWER ON
Post by: kgoss on October 31, 2016, 03:25:27 AM
The picture looks like maybe a resistor lead that you clipped is shorting the pins?  The wire looks a lot smaller than the coated wire.
Title: Re: CRACK OTL - Issues After First POWER ON
Post by: ALL212 on October 31, 2016, 11:02:42 AM
I think there's something seriously wrong with that LED...take a real close look...

(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi905.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fac253%2Fall212212%2Fledshort_zpsddxqhwoe.jpg&hash=8dd6bf11675f866e188534422d6a93ea699cee6f) (http://s905.photobucket.com/user/all212212/media/ledshort_zpsddxqhwoe.jpg.html)
Title: Re: CRACK OTL - Issues After First POWER ON
Post by: Doc B. on October 31, 2016, 11:23:12 AM
Witch LED are you referring too?
Title: Re: CRACK OTL - Issues After First POWER ON
Post by: borism on October 31, 2016, 12:44:27 PM
Of the WEST!
Title: Re: CRACK OTL - Issues After First POWER ON
Post by: ALL212 on November 01, 2016, 01:23:37 PM
Since I'm feeling guilty about derailing this a bit...

I've blown boards and "other" with cutoffs falling into places you really don't want them to fall.  Based on the picture you may have a cutoff that has dropped into the socket area.  Toothbrush works good for sweeping in areas like that.  I have to use a magnifying glass to get in that close but it works.
Title: Re: CRACK OTL - Issues After First POWER ON
Post by: mipheres on November 02, 2016, 09:07:38 PM
you are right about the clipping, but when I wrote "triple check", this was after  I cleared the metal and checked for a short with a tester.

witch way to go now? "go west"? ;D
Title: Re: CRACK OTL - Issues After First POWER ON
Post by: Paul Birkeland on November 03, 2016, 06:12:18 AM
Based on your voltages, at least half of the 12AU7 is glowing.  It can't be that both halves don't glow.  Please recheck with the light off in the room.

Also, can you measure (carefully) the DC voltage at A7?
Title: Re: CRACK OTL - Issues After First POWER ON
Post by: mipheres on November 10, 2016, 03:56:05 AM
Hi,

DC Voltage on A7 is 0 - zero.
Title: Re: CRACK OTL - Issues After First POWER ON
Post by: Paul Birkeland on November 10, 2016, 04:30:51 AM
Based on your voltages, at least half of the 12AU7 is glowing.  It can't be that both halves don't glow.  Please recheck with the lights off in the room.
Title: Re: CRACK OTL - Issues After First POWER ON
Post by: mipheres on November 14, 2016, 08:17:19 AM
yes, looks like both halves glow.
see attached
Title: Re: CRACK OTL - Issues After First POWER ON
Post by: Paul Birkeland on November 18, 2016, 06:39:19 AM
Carefully check the voltage at A8.
Title: Re: CRACK OTL - Issues After First POWER ON
Post by: mipheres on November 19, 2016, 08:19:25 PM
A8 measures 11.3V
Title: Re: CRACK OTL - Issues After First POWER ON
Post by: mipheres on November 25, 2016, 10:35:39 PM
Bump
Title: Re: CRACK OTL - Issues After First POWER ON
Post by: Paul Birkeland on November 26, 2016, 11:00:56 AM
You can replace the LED or wire in a jumper from A3 to A8.  (The LED has likely taken too much heat and has fractured)
Title: Re: CRACK OTL - Issues After First POWER ON
Post by: mipheres on November 26, 2016, 09:04:20 PM
sorry I dont know what to do exactly. can you write a more detailed explanation?
Thanks

Title: Re: CRACK OTL - Issues After First POWER ON
Post by: Paul Birkeland on December 01, 2016, 01:14:34 PM
sorry I dont know what to do exactly. can you write a more detailed explanation?
Thanks
Connect A3 and A8 with a piece of wire.
Title: Re: CRACK OTL - Issues After First POWER ON
Post by: mipheres on December 04, 2016, 08:04:00 PM
Hi,

Looks much better now.
all measurements are around the documentation values:
where it says 90V in the document I measured 82V
where it says 170V in the document I measured 162V

Also at the TRS Peak test, I measured 10V and the decline was to 0V.

Do you think I can connect the HD650?

Best regards,
YM
Title: Re: CRACK OTL - Issues After First POWER ON
Post by: Paul Birkeland on December 08, 2016, 10:52:34 AM
Yes, I think you're ready to go.

-PB