Bottlehead Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Doc B. on February 04, 2019, 09:50:37 AM
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Trying out the forum polling feature that we have kept dormant for the past few years. Which of these kit ideas floats to the top of your kit purchase wish list? Hopefully you might see more than one idea you like, but please just vote for the one kit that you would be most likely to buy.
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Is that 2500.00 per pair or a piece? I'm assuming that this is the "Big Betty" 50W mono. If it's per pair I'm going to vote, like, a hundred times.
Jamie
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Not Betty. PB came up with something recently that I liked better, and there may be other ideas, too. Do note that it says $2500+. I'm not setting a price, I'm assuring that people don't think we are making a 50W amp for $499.
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Excuse my ignorance but what is a DI Box?
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A direct input allows one to connect an electric guitar or bass directly to a PA system or a recording console without having to use an amp. Tube DIs are known for imparting some of the warm tone that a tube guitar amp adds.
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What is a modular tube mixer kit? Is this like a Dj kind of mixer or a studio mixer? How many channels would it have? Thanks
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A basic studio/PA mixer, that is, strips that one could add together for as many channels as you require. Modularity might mean include adding EQ, limiting and other things like that. It's not a fully developed idea at this point and I'm seeing if there is any interest at all because it would take quite a bit of effort to work out the details.
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I don't play but have friends / family that do.
Karl
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The 50W SE amp sounds really interesting. What are the output tube candidates for it? Can you list some of the design specs of the recent "something" PB has?
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This is a hard one for me Dan. I voted for a mic pre but am interested in others. Here is a short list with my reasons....
1. My number one item would be a mic preamp. There are plenty out there available, but this would translate well to a kit. I would want something that has a very clean user selected drive voltage and gain. I want something that sounds good, but could be used with a variety of mics. I'm not going to own the caliber that Jim works with any time soon, but the Shure KSM 32 and KSM 137 are on my short list as are other LCD and CD mics.
2. I really like the idea of a nice DI. The problem is that you have decent competition out there. A few of the requirements needed for me to even consider it would be:
a. user selectable voltage taps. I would need to switch between 100v, 120v, 220v depending on location of the gig.
b. Adjustable input impedance tap. My Line 6 POD HD has this and It's something I don't want to live without again.
c. Effects loops and pedal input (e.g. volume pedal, wah wah, etc.)
d. A broad EQ ability from clean to impressive over-driven distortion.
e. SE to Stereo output and stereo to stereo output ability with both SE and balanced output with low noise.
f. It must play will with mixers, direct to powered monitors and class D amps driving cabs.
This is a tall order for a user built item but the competition is impressive out there.
3. A HP amp would be a consideration, but it would need to sound at least as good as your Paramounts/Kaiju systems. If not, I would rather build a system to these amps vs. compensating for inefficient speakers.
4. A synth unit. Can you tell me what this would be???? I'm getting more and more into analog synth sound generation.
Thanks for taking it to the customer! Your products have defined how I enjoy a majority of music and I'm open to new areas.
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Thanks for the info Doc. Sounds like it potentially could be used to mix two turntable together...Anyways I unfortunately already voted on another idea but a mixer would get my vote as well.
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Is there an option for a improvement upon Mainline? The next step-up. If it's even possible?
Getting the DHT magic into headphones / DHT for a reasonable price (compared to the 845 amp).
I'm not thinking 845 tubes. I'm thinking a single stage parafeed DHT tube headphone amp with all the shunt regulator / C4S HV stuff and a fancy regulated filament supply.
There's DHT with a mu of 10-20 that i'm aware of (cough.. Russian.. think BH Smash), Beepre in front and ready to go?
PS: Yes, i'm aware i can buy the Stereomour II for this (for now i'm already saving up (Thanks Deke609! ^^)), but there's something magical about the Mainline (i personally think it has to do with the single gain stage, hence my question).
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DHT headphone amp is a cool idea, but I have a concern that we might get too many complaints about microphonics from the 4P1L. We'll talk about the idea a bit and see where it goes.
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There's DHT with a mu of 10-20 that i'm aware of (cough.. Russian.. think BH Smash), Beepre in front and ready to go?
That seems to be just not quite enough gain for a single stage transformer coupled headphone amp unfortunately.
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For myself the big amp would be cool for a less efficient speaker. But for Bottlehead's business, the synth would be a natural expansion path. Everyone is crazy about analog synths and those are all SS! How many tubed synths exist in the world?
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There is one tube synth that I know of. It's very expensive, but it sounds great and looks great.
Yep, you are right the old school synths are SS.
I think it's great this is not off topic on the Bottlehead board.
Here's a photo of my old school synth, can you image if this was tube based?
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Man I'm old. I learned about synths on one of these -
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Dan, I would love an analog synth! A Moog Mini new or used is silly expensive and I can't imagine something like this would be cheap even as a kit. What are you thinking? I still am unsure of what you would offer as a synth?
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I vote for synth modules. Back in the late 70’s a company called PAIA electronics put out SS synth modules, lots of fun to build, and play with, I built a number of them. But the down side for those was monophonic only. Polyphonic capability would be advantageous.
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I'd be super-keen for a 300b tube buffer.
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I vote for synth modules. ... PAIA electronics put out SS synth modules, lots of fun to build, and play with, I built a number of them.
PAIA is still in business.
I think providing mono modules, that you could build one at a time, and then add, maybe up to 8 voices would be nice.
My Oberheim Dual Manual (pictured above) is an 8 voice, and that's always been enough for me. I usually split the voices 2 and 6 between the keyboard.
The analog module would likely be CV/Gate control I would think. A MIDI to CV/Gate converter, is an easy thing to buy. Using it without a controller for sound effects would be nice.
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Dan, that is a good one to learn on. Really allows getting the basics down
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I voted for a mic preamp kit, I bet you guys could build something killer. Given the chance to vote for more than one, a tube DI would be cool, the idea of a modular mixer that I could add onto as needed is very interesting, and a ribbon mic would be cool too. I also love the thought of a 50 watt amp, but my pockets are way too shallow.
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I'd be super-keen for a 300b tube buffer.
We have one, called the BeePre.
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Definitely the 50+ SE amp. But, if that is the price each for a mono amp then it will be priced out of my reach. Ideally for me, it would be an integrated amp with selector switch and volume control like my Stereomour. And 60 watts would be even better!
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Have you guys ever thought of selling Bottlehead-approved component upgrade kits for your current products? Like a base Stereomour II, but then a Stereomour II+ with better trannies, capacitors, resistors, tubes, etc. Of course many of us do this on our own, but to have the designer(s) offer a package that adds sonic benefits, albeit at extra cost, would be a way to keep the price competitive on the base kit, but also allow better performance for those willing to spend more.
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I get what you're saying here, and I'll offer that where "better" is in terms of parts swapping is quite personal. IMO boutique caps and the like are pretty easy for anyone to do on their own. That is why we have always focused on actual circuit design changes that are more difficult for the end user to do on their own, like the shunt regulator, DC filament supply and stepped attenuator upgrades we offer for Stereomour II.
I am really digging all of the input we are getting with this poll. This really gets into a whole different subject of the basic premise behind basic kits and upgrades and what we consider to be improvements. I think maybe these kinds of ideas might be better presented in a separate thread so we can keep the focus here on the original topic.
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The choices in the poll span markets.
For the commercial hi-fi market, I think the preamp with integrated phono stage has the most potential. What would be great is to offer an option for a small Class D module to be integrated into the build. Something like a B&O ICEPower 125ASX2. Heresy, I know, but that is exactly what I’m planning to do with an old Foreplay kit that I’m building. There are so many user applications where a one-box solution makes sense. My own family room the adjoins our kitchen is a good example. It’s where we mostly hang out, but there is just enough room for a single Bottlehead chassis, and a turntable. And also, apart from the Jaegers, the speaker choices that are efficient enough to work well with single ended amps are few, esoteric and costly. It would be very nice to have a hybrid Bottlehead integrated that had the power to drive the inefficient speakers you see everywhere. I’d be surprised if such a thing didn’t become Bottlehead’s best seller.
For the pro market, no doubt that a tube mic pre would generate a lot of interest, particularly if the kit had some interesting build options, for example:
— For condensers, ~1.5k input impedance and P48
— For passive ribbons, ~65k input impedance with 70dB+ gain.
It would be nice to just have some sort of “ribbon mode†switch that would disable P48 and raise the input impedance. Bonus if it could have a variable input impedance control. Also, I would suggest that it should be in a 3U steel rack-mount chassis.
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I'll add my two cents (really 1.5 cents in CND currency).... how about a really nice (gasp) push pull amp or perhaps differential topology? .. say approx 20W or there abouts?? ....a DHT headphone amp would be cool..... the 2p29l might fit the bill...
Cheers
FM
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Man I'm old. I learned about synths on one of these -
Are you Keith Emerson? Wait, never-mind.
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Are you Keith Emerson? Wait, never-mind.
I saw Emerson play that modular Moog at a concert on the early seventies. He sure does have some chops.
Off topic: Natural, would you ping me please, I might be able to help you with something from an old post of yours.
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Not Keith Emerson, but I'm old enough that the one I played with was being used at the time by Herbie Hancock to make Headhunters. Here's a pic of him, but I'm not sure what the synth in the picture is. The studio was Different Fur in San Francisco, the other guy in the pic is Patrick Gleeson. I recall they had a Moog 3c and were renting a second one to make some of the patches they wanted. The rig was about the size of the one in the picture, but that doesn't appear to be a 3c. But it was a looong time ago (I was a teenager) and they had several synths. The guy teaching the classes I took was David Litwin, who was working at Different Fur at the time. I recall him playing a tape of an electronic music soundtrack he did for a porno flick in one class, maybe a Mitchell Bros film? Interesting to think back about something like that and how I had no concept of it being music history in the making. It was soooo futuristic.
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50 watt single ended, yikes. Would be looking at something like 3 parallel KT120/KT150 per channel or some other BIG tube...
Would be great though!
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Thanks so much to those who participated here. It helps to give us some guidance in what to focus on. Watch for more polls in the future.
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Hi,
Maybe I am too late, but I am partial for a Foreplay II with flexible paths for upgrades. I know I am not very clear, neophyte as I am, but it would be great to have something that really has potential for experimentation/expansion.
I have a SEX from 2006 that is still the hub of my everything. I wish I had a nicer preamp (I have an Antique SoundLab PhonoDT I got for $35) but it is not something I built...
I do have a CRACK as well as a Reduction, all of those giving joy and brighten my days more even on sunny ones.
I missed the opportunity to acquire a SMASH but it always felt as less open for experimentation even though the proposition for a quality product seemed obvious.
There is something dirty and yet, attracting about the innards of Bottlehead products. I guess that is what I am trying to say.
And instead of 'Foreplay', it could be called 'Taboo'...
;o)
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OK. I'll go for something different. How about a hybrid tube/solid state amp? Would be nice to still get some of the triode sonics we love with 50W or so of good old class A power, without the internal high voltages of an 845 or 211 push-pull amp.
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Hi,
Maybe I am too late, but I am partial for a Foreplay II with flexible paths for upgrades. I know I am not very clear, neophyte as I am, but it would be great to have something that really has potential for experimentation/expansion.
I have a SEX from 2006 that is still the hub of my everything. I wish I had a nicer preamp (I have an Antique SoundLab PhonoDT I got for $35) but it is not something I built...
I do have a CRACK as well as a Reduction, all of those giving joy and brighten my days more even on sunny ones.
I missed the opportunity to acquire a SMASH but it always felt as less open for experimentation even though the proposition for a quality product seemed obvious.
There is something dirty and yet, attracting about the innards of Bottlehead products. I guess that is what I am trying to say.
And instead of 'Foreplay', it could be called 'Taboo'...
;o)
I was really talking about doing a run of the original Foreplay II as more of a nostalgia thing. I would suggest that what you are describing might be more of what I am thinking of regarding a full preamp kit. I will be posting another poll about what features builders might like to see in that kit.
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OK. I'll go for something different. How about a hybrid tube/solid state amp? Would be nice to still get some of the triode sonics we love with 50W or so of good old class A power, without the internal high voltages of an 845 or 211 push-pull amp.
My thought is that a tube preamp with the SS power amp of your choice will get you want you want. I've spent an awful lot of years trying to make something that sounds better to me than a SS amp, so I may not be the right guy to tackle that project. For a 50W amp design we are not looking at PP. We have a couple of SE design prototypes that use other tubes besides 845 and 211 and do not go over 500 or so volts.
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That sounds encouraging! I'll keep checking back.
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My thought is that a tube preamp with the SS power amp of your choice will get you want you want. I've spent an awful lot of years trying to make something that sounds better to me than a SS amp, so I may not be the right guy to tackle that project. For a 50W amp design we are not looking at PP. We have a couple of SE design prototypes that use other tubes besides 845 and 211 and do not go over 500 or so volts.
Hi Doc! I was wondering if your preliminary design work might be far enough along that you could give us a few more details about this potential product? For example, has it been decided that this will be a product? And any other details you are comfortable sharing would be appreciated.
Dave
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PJ and PB were over yesterday for a design meeting and we did touch on this subject. The two of them have a tentative meeting set for next week to work a little more on one of the 50w amp design ideas. I think everyone came away feeling like it is something that could happen in the future.
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PAIA is still in business.
I think providing mono modules, that you could build one at a time, and then add, maybe up to 8 voices would be nice.
My Oberheim Dual Manual (pictured above) is an 8 voice, and that's always been enough for me. I usually split the voices 2 and 6 between the keyboard.
The analog module would likely be CV/Gate control I would think. A MIDI to CV/Gate converter, is an easy thing to buy. Using it without a controller for sound effects would be nice.
Hi Craig, trying to get ahold of you to talk about Dual Manuals! if you see this, please PM me. thanks.
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How about a 6V6 amplifier?
Cary
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Would you guys ever consider selling a DAC again? I’ve seen some older pics of the Bottlehead DAC. I would totally purchase one of those.
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We made the EL84 Seductor and it didn't sell all that well. We could certainly explore 6V6 push-pull, but the availability of inexpensive 6V6 console amps for less than $200 makes that tough to justify.
The DAC was an excellent sounding piece of kit, but the Apple OS update that caused all the DACs running on Apple machines to stop working was way too much drama (that has since been resolved by Apple, there never was anything we could do to resolve that on our end).
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Thanks PB! If you all ever bring it back you can count me in as a buyer.
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You'll have my vote for a resurrection of the Seductor! :)
Or for just about any affordable tube power amp that uses tubes that are easy to find and won't require you take out a loan... ;)
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Would you guys ever consider selling a DAC again? I’ve seen some older pics of the Bottlehead DAC. I would totally purchase one of those.
Nope.
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Take this more as thinking out loud than a specific suggestion. Appreciate the history the staff is giving on products that were tried and didn't take off.
Some sort of EL34 or similar tube based amp/integrated? A little more power (10-20 watts per channel is plenty), wide range of tube options for rolling enjoyment, keep it cost-effective (OK to still be a grand, give or take). Something that might be a better match with less-sensitive speakers (is it mean to say insensitive speakers, ha!) or allow more grunt with sensitive speakers.
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You guys know this thread is two years old, right? Best to start a new thread for a specific product request. If you really have a Jones for a particular product we don't make PB can usually custom build something for you.
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Opps.....
Blaming the person who bumped it (granted, for a good reason)
;D