Bottlehead Forum
Other Gear => Digital => Topic started by: 2wo on July 21, 2020, 04:23:21 PM
-
The vast majority of my listening is digital, I have a kitten named Havoc, playing a lp can be very exciting.
I started out with the first few versions of Squeezbox, still use one for the workshop. I wanted to play with DAC's so I built a Vortexbox, a free Linux app that ran the same Slimserver I was used to. I was blown away by how easy it was to set up and get playing and it has been serving me brilliantly for, yikes maybe 13,14 or more years. So needless to say it is a bit long in the tooth, there are no updates and the hardware has got to be over a hundred in dog years. So I want to move on before a cap gives up and the music stops.
I have always wanted to play with the Raspberry Pi and have been doing a little research, can't say I have been keeping up with all that is out there. I was thinking a Pi and Pi core player and keep the same Silmserver or whatever they call it now.
I wanted to ask the community to see if there was a compelling reason to not try this or if they had a better option, easy is better ;)...John
-
I’ve been considering it, except most of my current playlists are in Apple Music, which doesn’t play well with anything not made by Apple. This is a pretty good primer, and has lots of people’s perspectives included:
https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/dummies-guide-to-pi2aes-throw-away-your-pc-or-laptop.8878/
-
John, I have no experience with those devices but, I noticed the other day a Raspberry Pi 4 music server, DIY sort of thing at Transcendent Sound. Just open the products page and it’s at the bottom. The claimed investment is 150 bucks. Sounds like it could be a bargain.
Jamie
-
For "easy", check allo dot com. I currently use their USBridge Sig, flashed with Ropiee as a Roon "bridge" between my music server (Intel NUC) and my DAC. They make all kinds of RPI-based audio products capable of running various apps, including Volumio which I think just needs a music storage device (no computer/server) and is compatible with AirPlay and lots of other stuff. Their stuff is pretty much plug and play.
Compared to many of their competitors, Allo's prices are fairly reasonable and even competitive with (or even cheaper than) diy. I believe they make and ship everything in/from India.
There's tons of discussion about their products online. This guy has some video reviews about them: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCR4tuhqPppVp-PD0q17sPEA (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCR4tuhqPppVp-PD0q17sPEA) -- and if you search his channel you can find lots of useful info about RPI-based audio systems. Also check out Audiophilestyle dot com - a forum for discussion of all kinds of "computer-based" audio systems.
cheers, Derek
-
Hi,
I am using 3 Pi's with Hifiberry Dac hats around the house to stream music to. Works flawlessly and you have multiple options of software to run on it. I use them as endpoints for my ROON setup using RoPieee. Never looked back.
Michael
-
Thanks folks, I've run down some of those links and have been doing some more research as time permits
My next question is Pi 3 or 4, I plan to feed my Bottlehead DAC which I currently use on USB. My understanding is that the Pi USB is not it's strong point. I have read that the 4 is better but maybe not that much so. I also I plan to use a USB drive for my music folder so either way I am looking at the Allo SPDIF hat. Any other good reason to pick one over the other....John
-
One vote for Pi 4.
-
I recently got a pi4 kit for $100 on amazon. Labist. All I wanted was a music player for all of the music I have on an external hard drive.
Despite lots of resources it was more challenging than I expected. I tried rune audio but it failed to work. Next I tried Volumio and while not perfect it got the job done.
If you never messed with a pi before then I have some tips for you:
For your 1st pi get a kit. It’ll come with everything you need to get started. If want to buy another pi then you only need the pi, a pi chassis, 32g sd cord for the OS, and 3A usb power supply. The 4th gen pi uses usb-c for power.
Once you have the os set up and the pi works like a computer then you can move on to the next step.
Using another computer you have to install Volumio onto the sd card that has the pi os. Reinsert the sd card into the pi, plug in your hd and usb dac, turn it on. Volumio essentially takes over the pi. You don’t need a keyboard, mouse, monitor at that point. I bought the $2 Volumio app and put it on my iPhone and iPad. That’s what I use to control Volumio.
It sounds better than using my Mac mini although the interface can be a little clunky if you try to do do many things too quickly. I use a Schiit Audio Modius as my usb DAC. The pi also has Bluetooth so if someone wants to play something from their phone they just have to connect to Volumio Via Bluetooth. Pretty easy. There’s other ways you can set it up too if you want to set up multiple pis around the house.
-
Thanks for all the tips. I went ahead and ordered a Pi 4,digiboard and case from Hifiberry for about $125 to play with. I am going to start with the Pi core player as I have been using LMS for years. I definitely plan to try Volumio as well. I will be away so it will be awhile before I can give it a go, but I will report back...John
-
Thanks for all the tips. I went ahead and ordered a Pi 4,digiboard and case from Hifiberry for about $125 to play with. I am going to start with the Pi core player as I have been using LMS for years. I definitely plan to try Volumio as well. I will be away so it will be awhile before I can give it a go, but I will report back...John
Hi John, How did the HiFiBerry DigiBoard work out with with the Bottlehead DAC? I'm thinking about feeding my Bottlehead DAC with an Allo DigiOne Signature. I'm super impressed with the Allo BOSS I2S DAC running in my home office. It's been a godsend during this COVID fiasco.
I had been using my trusty PC Engines ALIX computer that Doc B. sold me ages ago to drive the BH DAC. Sadly Voyage Linux MPD is no longer supported and drastically out of date. I have security concerns about having such an old OS on my network. The Allo DigiOne Signature looks like a suitable replacement. I've tried a bunch of the Pi Music Server software offerings and settled on MoOde Audio. To my ears and in my system it sounds a bit better.
-
+1 for MoOde, it sounds better than the Bluesound Node it replaced in my system.
-
I switched to a Pi2AES running Volumio and I like it so far. It feeds my Schiit Bifrost. Easy to set up and sounds good. Not too terribly expensive either.
-
I have the pi setup with a hifiberry Digi+ pro feeding a Music Fidelity V90 DAC with Volumio and it works and sounds great.
Tim
-
I got it up and running with the basic dig board and Pi core player but I need to get a hard drive and move my library to it. I have only listened to streaming and a few songs on a USB stick and it sounds pretty good but not a lot of Critical listening
Unfortunately my work is Covid related and I have been constantly on the road, not sure when I will be able to play with it...John
-
Anyone with a SET amp that sounds a little bass anemic with a digital source may want to consider the Allo Boss route. There are several design explanations for this. Specifically there are three separate power rails. One for the audio section, clock and DAC chip. Accompanied by film caps in the audio section and a super cap for extra instantaneous current kick when needed. It really is a "bang for the buck" item at $65 U.S.
-
Anyone with a SET amp that sounds a little bass anemic with a digital source may want to consider the Allo Boss route. There are several design explanations for this. Specifically there are three separate power rails. One for the audio section, clock and DAC chip. Accompanied by film caps in the audio section and a super cap for extra instantaneous current kick when needed. It really is a "bang for the buck" item at $65 U.S.
It's been another week with the Allo BOSS. I've listened to it every day with my Crack-Speedball/HD600 combo doing my work from home routine. This little DAC is amazing. It easily competes with other high end (high dollar) DAC's that I have in my collection.
-
OK Guys and Gals one more comment before I succumb to the silence as being a sign of me being boring as f*%k. Up to this point I have been powering the Pi and BOSS from a single supply with amazing results given this price point. I've powered this combo with a standard switching PS ($10), an iFi PS ($50) that does an adequate job of filtering out noise in the audible 20-20kHz range. The third supply I tried is another great value from the fine folks at Allo (Shanti Dual Linear @ $159).
I'm rather smitten with this setup lately as I've spent many hours listening and critiquing and I've been super happy so far. This evening I decided to try something a little different. The Sahanti LPS is a dual output isolated PS. The Allo BOSS has the capability of being decoupled from the computer supply via a jumper on the circuit board and powered separately. I decided to give this option a try and I'm really glad I did. The result wasn't subtle at all. It transformed an already fantastic low cost DAC to levels far exceeding my expectations.
This is how I'll be powering my BOSS from now on. Or at least until I get another harebrained idea in my head anyway. ;)
-
I use the Shanti as well. It powers my Allo USBridge Sig that sits between my Roon Core (Intel NUC) and my DAC. Before getting the USBridge Sig, I was using the original USBridge (non-Sig) powered by a more expensive linear power supply made by Uptone Audio. I needed a new power supply b/c the Sig required more current than the Uptone Audio could put out. Result: to my ears the the combo of Sig and Shanti was a little cleaner in the highs than the previous set up, and cost less.
I'm pretty impressed with the value proposition of Allo.
cheers, Derek
-
I have not played with Raspberry Pi, but I know a lot of people who have and really love them. I do use a computer as a source for digital music along with external DACs. For me anyway, a DAC that had power from the computer as its only option would be a non-starter. Inside a computer is a very harsh and noisy environment electrically. Especially when things like fans, GPUs, hard drive motors, etc, come on. Now, this has no effect in the digital domain or the computers would not work at all. This is primarily because the concept of time has no bearing on a binary digital signal. However, when a DAC converts that signal to analogue time and electrical noise affect it greatly. So I am not at all surprised you heard such an obvious improvement when you switched your DAC to a power supply separate from the Pi.
Keep the experiments and observations coming!
-
Come again, what are you trying to say? You can't possibly be serious.
"This is primarily because the concept of time has no bearing on a binary digital signal."
-
I use the Shanti as well. It powers my Allo USBridge Sig that sits between my Roon Core (Intel NUC) and my DAC. Before getting the USBridge Sig, I was using the original USBridge (non-Sig) powered by a more expensive linear power supply made by Uptone Audio. I needed a new power supply b/c the Sig required more current than the Uptone Audio could put out. Result: to my ears the the combo of Sig and Shanti was a little cleaner in the highs than the previous set up, and cost less.
I'm pretty impressed with the value proposition of Allo.
cheers, Derek
I'm going to pick up a DigiOne Signature and another Shanti as soon as the U.S. distributor gets his shipment. This will feed the Bottlehead DAC in my main system. The BOSS / Shanti combo is being used in my home office.
I agree, Allo is an exceptional value.
-
Come again, what are you trying to say? You can't possibly be serious.
OK, I will try to explain. But I am not going to hijack this thread which is about the Raspberry Pi.
To keep things as simple as possible lets talk about a single bit moving from a hard drive to memory. First of all, the digital domain is a binary world. The bit is either on or off (1 or 0) absolutely, there is no state other than those two. Let's say the bit is a 1 on the hard drive. When it is read from the hard drive it begins a long journey through the CPU to be written into memory. Along the way there is lots of error correction done to ensure the value stays a 1. If an error is detected and cannot be corrected along the way, the value is thrown away and the read from hard drive is done again. The end result is that the bit (value=1) is written into memory. The only thing that matters is the value of that bit in memory is 1. Time is not a factor in this outcome because time is irreverent in the digital domain. The correct value is written to memory no matter if it takes 1 microsecond or 1000 milliseconds. Slow computers drive us crazy, but in the end they always have the correct value. If that was not true computers would be useless, and we all know even a slow computer is better than no computer.
On the analogue side of a DAC time is extremely critical. The DAC chip relies on a constant stream of zeros and ones over a time period (sample rate) to construct as close an approximation of the smooth analogue signal as it can given the sample rate. If there are breaks in that data stream for any reason data is lost and if enough data is lost you will hear it. There is no data correction in analogue like there is in the digital computer. Data lost is lost forever. So power supply noise, RF interference, power supply fluctuations all affect this analogue world and will affect the quality of the music you hear.
In my opinion, that is the reason PB always asks headphone amp users with noise problems if they have a USB powered DAC. Then the question is can the DAC be powered externally and could they switch to an optical connection. The optical connection means no power to the DAC is coming from the noisy computer, and that solves the problem a lot of the time. Very long story short, I believe powering a DAC separately from a computer is always the best solution,
-
Your "explanation" documents that you really don't understand timing in digital circuits. Please explain to yourself why a computer will crash eventually when overclocked. Don't do it here because it will indeed hijack the thread, but realize that I have designed high speed digital circuits in my life, timing is everything because you are still dealing with the same physics. Also, no, error correction in digital systems is not always 100% successful.