Bottlehead Forum
Other Gear => Speakers => Topic started by: Doc B. on July 02, 2011, 07:10:52 AM
-
Just spent a very nice evening with Clark Blumenstein of Blumenstein Ultra Fi, and his lovely fiance Molly. Clark brought over some of his Naga speakers as well as a pair of Orcas. They are both based on the Fostex FF85K 3" driver. The Naga is a very slender and relatively deep labyrinth style cabinet that is absolutely gorgeous, in bamboo with a contrasting speaker baffle. The cabinet is small enough to be very unimposing and would fit very well in a small room. An equally petite metal cone subwoofer for each channel that is driven from a separate amp is the other half of the system.
(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.blumenstein-ultra-fi.com%2Fuploads%2Fimages%2FGallery%2Fnaga%2F1.jpg&hash=99e47bfad474c56d79ca2e30cef86ba772e05824)
The Orca is a bookshelf style ported box speaker, again in a beautifully crafted bamboo cabinet (though the photo is of an earlier birch plywood version). It too is happiest running with a sub woofer.
(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.blumenstein-ultra-fi.com%2Fuploads%2Fimages%2FGallery%2Fkiwi%2F1.jpg&hash=01a9c3c49fd8297ad5ae0b8a28b1b9a7f3fc8efb)
I listened to both speakers with a Stereomour amp at Clark's shop in SODO last week. Clark is an long time Bottlehead and has a SEX amp, Foreplay III and Paramours as part of his stable of amps used for evaluation. The sound was striking from the get go, and I really wanted to hear the speakers in our room at Bottleheadquarters to have a known point of reference from which to make judgements about their sound. So Clark braved massive road construction detours and huge holiday weekend lines at the ferry terminal to bring the speakers over for a listen.
Before I get into the sound I should mention that Clark did an apprenticeship with the late and great Terry Cain of Cain & Cain, while he was attending Whitman acquiring a degree in music. From there he spent time with the fanatics at Feastrex, participating in the manufacturing of some of the most obsessively designed drivers out there. So he has an impressive amount of experience in both driver and cabinet design, and a very good ear to boot. Sometimes I find my mind wandering when I talk to other manufacturers as they can tend to wander off into pet theories and moments of grandeur. But Clark is a very practically minded guy who isn't trying to bend physics to fit his universe or inflate it to fit his ego. And his designs show his thoughtful, careful, yet impassioned approach.
OK, to cut to the chase -
Yup a 3" driver is not what one would call sensitive, and it's not going to move a ton of air. But those little Fostex drivers can sound pretty great with just a few watts if you relieve them from excessive bass duties. I was really surprised at how well the Nagas could fill our 19 x 25 x 11 room with sound. The subs do a nice job of integration with the speakers and Clark's setup seemed to have enough adjustment range to compensate nicely for the peculiar bass characteristics of different rooms.
Those little 3" drivers really do amazing stuff on vocals, they are exceptionally natural and seem to have a very even frequency response. And being damn near point sources they image like gang busters. I usually expect to audition a speaker in my room for about 30 minutes and go back to my own system with the particular set of character flaws that my brain has become accustomed to. But I just kept wanting to try out different material to see how well the Nagas handled it, and suddenly I realized that we needed to end to session because it was late enough that the kids needed to catch one of the last boats back to Seattle. All in all a very impressive demo, and we never even got to roll tape through them!
For years I have wanted to be able to recommend a great sounding, reasonably priced, locally manufactured speaker. Well folks, the time has come. These are absolutely beautifully crafted, great sounding, compact, reasonably priced speakers. From Seattle!
Clark's got a few other tricks up his sleeve, like a special super budget speaker for the locals called the Thrasher, and some high end designs using an Altec 604 recreation and one that uses Feastrex drivers.
You gotta check out his web site - great stuff. I think we will have some of these speakers available for demo at Bottleheadquarters soon.
http://www.blumenstein-ultra-fi.com/ (http://www.blumenstein-ultra-fi.com/)
-
Dan, errata?
FF85K was a fantabulously silly good little driver, but has been discontinued by the manufacturer. IINM, the particular model shown in the Orca and Naga would be the FE83En - still current even after a major revision to the "budget" full-range line.
-
Dan, errata?
Very probably.
-
I have a pair of Orcas on order with Clark which I plan to use with my S.E.X. amp in a small library room with a single REL T5 subwoofer. By the way, the photos in Doc's post show the Orcas with the plywood finish. Clark also offers them in lovely natural bamboo wood.
-
Yes, the new bamboo Orcas are a really nice upgrade in terms of visual aesthetic and they sound better too. I like the bamboo look so much I have asked Clark to see if he can come up with matching bamboo bases for our kits.
-
I have a pair of Orcas on order with Clark which I plan to use with my S.E.X. amp in a small library room with a single REL T5 subwoofer. By the way, the photos in Doc's post show the Orcas with the plywood finish. Clark also offers them in lovely natural bamboo wood.
I had a chance to hear the little Orcas (natural BB ply version) a couple of weekends ago at a secret lab in Bothell, and they were delightfully musical. If there's any way to HP filter them on your SEX amp (say around 100Hz), when used with a powered sub, they'd acquit themselves more than quite nicely.
Having experienced the sonic difference between bamboo and BB ply in other speaker enclosures, they'd be well worth the extra few dollars.
-
Verrrrry interesting!
Wonder how they'd do in a 10.5' x 16.5' x 8' room with the stereomour?
-- Jim
-
I think they would work well. The little 3" drivers are not going to blow your hair back, but at normal comfortable listening levels they sound really nice with a Stereomour. Imaging freaks will really love them, as they do the holographic image thing really well. Clark has been taking his speakers around to compare with other speakers based generally upon similar ideas and he's been getting very favorable feedback.
-
Funny you should mention that, Doc. Clark is building a matching bamboo base for my S.E.X. amp! Should be a very nice match for the little Orcas.
Yes, the new bamboo Orcas are a really nice upgrade in terms of visual aesthetic and they sound better too. I like the bamboo look so much I have asked Clark to see if he can come up with matching bamboo bases for our kits.
-
my s.e.x. amp already has a bamboo ply base all ready to go. I'll probably give it a bit more sanding and another couple coats of finish before I call it done though.
-
I'd go for a set of used Herseys. I'm using a set of Forte's in a modestly larger room and they sound absolutely wonderful at pretty respectable sounds levels I may add. A used set of the small Herseys can be had for a reasonable price, and if you're into DIY'ing you can tinker with the crossovers to replace the old caps.....fun all around!
-
Japhy, I've had Hesys and currently have cornwalls (which are up for sale) Totally different animals from the BUFs, and IMO, if you want the best performance possible from the klipsch heritage series speakers with low power SET amps, the ALK crossovers are a must -- they are reactively balanced so the amp sees a very flat 6-8 ohm load with a reactive component that wanders no more than 10 degrees from purely resistive.
-- Jim
-
I've been exchanging emails wit Clark Blumenstein for a couple of weeks now but today I was able to have an extended phone conversation with him. First thing is that Clark is a really nice, polite, down-to-earth and practical kind of guy and who has great passion for music and it's reproduction.
I like the way this guy thinks and how he approaches his designs and I learned a good bit about the Nagas' history, design choices, and the evolution of the design to what it is today and all I can say is that I'm saving my pennies as quickly as possible to order the complete Naga system (with a couple of minor customizations). This will include the Nagas, the BUF subs, and the amps for the subs.
Clark was also extremely impressed with the Stereomour amp and it's sonics on his speakers, so I know that won't be an issue.
Clark, it also seems to me, takes an approach that starts with some physics and mathematics, which is where a lot of speaker designersstop, but then he builds, tweaks, rebuilds, etc. until he has things sounding just right, and in my world, this is the way to approach audioequipment design.
Only problem I see is that at some point I'm probably going to have to get a pair of Orcas as well, but that will have to wait until next year.
If you're even thinking about some new speakers to go with your BH amps, and these are in your budget, I'd suggest taking a very close look at these speakers and at Clark as a designer/builder/artist.
There are some things about his design that sound to me as if they will not have some of the problems I've had with other BLH designs, namely resonances and phasing problems in the lower registers.
And for anybody goingt to RMAF, he said he'll be there but not yet sure if his speakers will be featured in any of the rooms.
Anyway, if you're on the fence and these look even mildly interesting, I'd really suggest having another look and or contacting Clark directly with your questions.
-- Jim
-
Clark brought by the "premium" version of the Thrashers yesterday afternoon. These are FE166s in so-gnarly-as-to-be-cool ported tower size boxes made of OSB. The drivers are isolation mounted to the front baffle - something I believe in wholeheartedly - and Clark has come up with a simple adjustable port on the front so one can tune the cabinet to taste.
We hooked them up to a Stereomour and also to a S.E.X. amp. Either one had plenty of power for anything but dance club levels and both seemed a great match to the Fostex driver. Bass was surprisingly available in good quantity, the midrange didn't seem to get muddled when the bass got loud like I've heard in other ported Fostex setups and of course the single drivers imaged like crazy. Clark is offering these speakers assembled for around $500 the pair (check with him on the exact price, materials prices these days bounce around like solar atoms). The deal is you have to pick them up from the factory in SODO, as shipping assembled wood cabinets is getting ridiculously expensive.
If you are looking for a super bang for the buck system with high end sound, this is a great place to start!
Oh yeah, and if you stumbled across an old solid state receiver or integrated amp at a thrift store and need some really inexpensive speakers that you can hook up and boogie with, Clark does a version of the Thrasher using the Pioneer 8" full range driver, for $300 the pair!
-
Thanks Dan!
Yeah, after selling several "beta" sets, I'll be putting together the first "alpha" pairs of them for a local climbing gym in a few weeks. The middle of this week I'll be going on my honeymoon then by the end of the month I'll be back, in my new shop (already as of this week), and looking to crank out my orders along side everything else that I make like "gang-busters."
The Thrashers are a whopping 90 liters internal volume and are meant to be a no hold barred introduction to the large ported box designs that give my Oniyanmas and Josephines and such great sound. I've used this box type for years along side other cabinet styles as test cabinets for various drivers. A "Large Ported Box" (LPB) is a very old speaker design type, just like the SETs they were meant to be paired with back in the day (for the most part). LPBs have well known virtues and few but well understood compromises. There are many iterarions of them, some audio designers dedicate their lives to the tabulating and classification "taxonomy" of this living history, but in the end, its all about building, listening and adjusting what you've got. By keeping the port slightly mobile (user tunable), a variety of sound qualities can be achieved for different circumstances (for parties all the way to critical listening and also to be able to account for various room positionings).
The two versions are:
V.1 - Pioneer BoFu with a tweeter - OSB and a more minimal design to keep costs down These are meant for louder, bassier music in a typical younger person's living room or a shop or dance club environment. At 89db, a solid state receiver with 50-100wpc is perfect and the drivers are near impossible to blow. These are the true "Thrashers."
V. 2 - Fostex FE166En with the nicer "ACX" fir plywood and with a solid wood internal and external bracing lattice - something you just flat can't do unless the speaker looks weird and ugly but man does the bracing calm things down! (without the use of damping). They are 95db sensitive - opening up the ability for a truly affordable and truly HE speaker to be used with the lower power SET amps in larger living rooms. I use my pair of Thrashers at home with the same SEX amp that is just as happy to power Orcas in small-medium sized rooms or at my computer desk. The Thrashers' large, open, dynamic sound is a gas. They remind me alot of the C&C Abby, but with a slightly larger and more open sound (double the internal volume) however their design philosophy is totally different - Each speaker has a whole square foot that you can use to set your drink or potted plant down on without a care in the world!
They are ugly but with great personality. You might not be able to pinpoint exactly why, but you really want to spend alot of time listening to them speak...
For now, because the price is so cheap (~$500 or ~$300), and their size so large, they are direct sale, factory pick up only. For me to ship them is available, but at an understood "pretty penny" (probably 3-400 dollars within the states) and a bit of a wait - I have to build crates for them like my other large speakers.
I've had to do some rearranging of my shop and life this summer (esp. revolving around getting married). There is an update coming to my website in the next month or so detailing the developments that have taken place in the mean time. Like a 4000 watt, 4-15", 4-12" in OB and 2- supertweeter PA system I built last year for the Etsy.com headquarters. The new and gobstoppingly awesome BUF Subwoofer model. There are new wood offerings for the Nagas, Orcas, Subs, and cloth grills for the Orcas. Matching bases offered for Bottlehead amps. Discounts offered for feats of athleticism. New Oniyanma offerings, customization options and my new status as a retailer of the Feastrex drivers (a great honor). Oh, and the Thrashers being formally released. A lot of everything for everybody.
But first, I've got to go on my honeymoon clear headed - A happy wife is a happy life :)
Expect to see alot coming out of my shop in early Oct.
Best,
Clark
P.S. It would have been nice to be at the DIY fest at Dave's place this year but I was off getting hitched that weekend. So it will just have to be a sure thing next year...
-
Clark, with the Fostex-based version, are you giving any thought to a "just add plywood!" version of the speaker? I know I'd pay a reasonable amount for a speaker kit that was everything except the wood so I could just cut it, glue it up, and assemble the hardware you supply to be assured that I'll end up with something that sounds good. That would resolve the lion's share of the shipping cost.
-
Doc and I were talking about an eventual Flat Pack version which would ship much more easily - for the domestic customers who want to get in on the action. The cost of a Flat Pack would not be too much cheaper than the assembled Thrashers, but it would make a dent. The shipping costs would be way less, however, because the volume of the packages to be shipped would be so much less.
The drivers themselves are available from Madisound. You can get them there at the same price as you'd be able to get them from me.
The design is a mathematical optimization of a 4X8 sheet of plywood into 12 panels yielding two boxes with maximum internal volume (with minimal wood loss into saw dust). The dims are ~42", ~12", ~10.5". Cut a 7/8ths of driver surface area hole in the front of the cabinet, then tune it (cover it up incrimentally) by ear. If you've got the gear, (a good, safe panel saw system) then go for it!
-Clark
-
Ah, I assumed there'd be some internal baffling or stuffing, or passive electronics, or something that I'd be likely to mess up. If it's a simple ported box with no tube, then that's within my ability to handle.
-
Well, there's still plenty of subtlety in any good speaker build - often times especially so for the simpler kinds of cabinets (dotting the "i's" and "t's" of "simplicity"): methods of mechanical decoupling of the driver from the baffle, rounding over the ports (decreasing turbulence), a balanced aproach to the placement, amount, and kinds of bracing - all factors that need to be geared towards acheiving a balanced frequency and impulse response. In contrast to the rest of my products, the Thrashers' level of fit and finish is geared towards people who might want to take them places - the back yard, the back of your car, concert halls, and to not be bogged down with the necessity for "white glove" service.
-Clark
-
The thrasher sounds very interesting!
Any pictures of it?
Thx
Mike
-
Will be able to post some as soon as I'm back from NZ.
Cheers mate!
-Clark
-
Here are some pictures of the prototype Thrashers ("I" and "II" versions) as promised. New Zealand was absolutely amazing. Molly and I are still working on getting some good photos up online. probably the most stunning place was "pupu springs" which, despite the name, is the clearest, cleanest, most amazing looking water on the planet. Well worth the trip for that site alone. But there was so much more: Kiwi birds, Wekas, Tui birds. Such great people too.
I also had to "hermit in" for a week after the trip to get several customers' orders out: Joe now has a set of Bamboo Orcas and BUF Subs. Jim and I were REALLY pleased with his Bamboo Orcas and SEX amp with Bamboo base combo. Darren got some older Orcas and a Prototype model BUF Sub, and I've been putting together several sets of speakers for Tamara Murphy's Reading Room of the old Elliott Bay Cafe and her upcoming new restaurant "Terra Plata." http://terraplata.com/ So needless to say, a little busy since we've been back.
This week, I'm gonna start making a run of "alpha" Thrasher Is and IIs (again, just the prototypes shown in pics) along side some bamboo Nagas and BUF Subs that are in progress...Being able to effectively juggle so many projects, the new shop is so nice!
Cheers,
Clark
P.S. to all those I wished to see at RMAF this year, it does not look like I'll be making it afterall. Very busy catching up from our honeymoon, etc. I'll catch you next year!
-
Clark,
Good stuff! Hey, if any of you guys who have the Orca/BUF sub combo and are using either the stereomour or se.e.x. amp with them tell us how you likee your setup?
I'm really curious about this setup for our bedroom and maybe possibly for the living room (which is only 14 feet wide).
And if any of you guys have the Orcas stacked on a pair of BUF subs, that would be even more interesting to hear about.
Thanks,
Jim
-
Clark,
With my wood working skills/age your prototypes look better than anything I would cobble together. I do have a friend who might help me make something that looked good but I have to travel 3 hours to get to his house.
I would love to hear you speakers sometime! Anywhere around, Knoxville or Atlanta?
BTW, Doc's recommendation carries a lot of weight here. (Naturally!)
-
Thanks!
Grainger: I have made some sales of stuff over the years down south, but it might be a little hard to track people down. What I can offer is a guarantee that you won't be disappointed if you do get a pair. :)
The website is starting to finally take shape to include all the things I've been working on past, present and future. I've been very busy between the orders in the shop this week and moving our apartment into a house (finally!) Our house will have a nice demo space in some weeks as well, which will really facilitate introducing people to the sonic magic of these single driver designs and doc's amps. I'll also cobble together a home theater system as well in some time - we've have had a number of people put them together with the Orcas and be really pleased.
Cheers!
-Clark
-
Clark,
So... where are you? (I didn't look too far up the thread, I'm being lazy.) I get to the North West coast about every other year. Sometimes I get a side trip. I'm assuming you are near Dan.
-
I'm in Seattle, the lovely North Wet, and of course, you are welcome here any time.
-Clark
P.S. Beulah/thrasher will go back to being a "locals only" model for a little while...getting my production process speedy enough to handle those big mamas!
-
Had alot of fun at the Bottlehead meetup this weekend. So nice to meet everybody who came, Everyone had such interesting backgrounds.
I ended up bringing birch Orcas, caramelized bamboo Orcas and caramelized bamboo BUF Subs that we got to hear through the new SEX 2.1 which I have to say is a great acheivement. I've always loved the surprisingly stout, relaxed sound of my old SEX amp modded with Jensen PIO caps, alps pot and whatnot, but the 2.1 really ups the ante on resolution and bass response with the new transformers.
Jim Rebman's (really awesome) system that he was so kind to let us bring to the meet are these natural bamboo Nagas and natural bamboo BUF Subs that we got to power with a Stereomour. Jim actually sent me the Koa wood used for his front baffle plates. And woah! Amazingly gorgeous stuff that is just the right density for optimal sound with the Nagas. A new feature on his speakers is that they've got all brass, natural rubber, and gold plated hardware, standard on all models now. Even though the drivers only had 2 hours on them by the end of the night, they had a wonderful presentation already there. The combination had surprising upper volume capability, a bit stronger than my old paramours which is something I'm guessing is owed to the new transformers and other improvements. All in all, really great to hear some different combinations of things. I'm really falling in love with the Naga all over again with Jim's speakers. His have probably the best job I've done yet at properly destressing the cabinets during all the clamping procedures and it really shows in the final sound quality.
Also, a really nice guy (forgot his name) brought by some very intriguing 8" tangband widebanders - the ones with paper cones and neo magnets. He had them in a diy hinged open baffle and they were doing some intriguing things...
And of course, Dan's "Big Rig" speaker system was there running on all cylinders. Such awesome dynamics at high volumes.
Shawn got to help with a bunch of folks' amps, and there was some super nice master tapes being played through the Nagra rig - its the first time I've gotten to hear tape through my fostex designs. (got to hear plenty while at Feastrex though :). I have to say, after a bit of hanging out in various friend's mastering studios over the years, the tape project cuts have gotta be some of the best tape audio quality I've heard. Such an acheivement!
Well, this is getting to be a long post about the meetup and I should let other people chime in. I'm really looking forward to future meetups! For instance, Its looking like Dec. 10th Dan and I are going to be throwing a meet, greet, drink and listen party at the Two beers brewery behind my shop in Sodo. More details will follow on that in short order as the plans shape up.
Thanks for sharing such a wonderful time Dan, Eileen, and everyone who showed up!
-Clark
-
Thanks for the kind words and double thanks for the pics! My camera was at HQ yesterday but I seem to have short term memory loss when it comes to taking pics at these events.
At the end of the day we fired up the Nagas one more time and played with room position a bit. Clark found a spot where they really came to life. Just amazing how he gets that much good sound out of those teeny little drivers. After everyone was gone we took one last listen to the Orca/BUF sub setup in the lobby. The lobby still has very primitive treatment, but again, when the speakers were moved a little closer to the front wall and into a more realistic home listening position they really came to life.
I plan to get the lobby properly treated and we are hoping to have a set of Orcas, Nagas and BUF subs running at BHQ in the future. And we're going to set Clark up with a Stereomour and a S.E.X. 2.1 that he can demo with on the Seattle side. That way folks will have a couple of different places to hear how nice our gear plays together.
-
Thanks, Clark for the additional details on the Nagas, and also for the extra nice job it sounds like you have done on these. I'm really looking forward looking forward to how they're going to sound in my room.
Dan, great news on the BH/BUF gear swap, and one of these days there may be a place in Colorado where folks can also hear these combinations as well :-).
Just curious if the Nagas ever got a tur with the Paramounts and the new preamp. Of course I understand that things like this are a lot of work in the middle of a meet, so I'm guessing not, but would love to hear impressions of that setup someday too.
-- Jim
-
Unfortunately we just didn't have time for all of the combos we would liked to have tried. Along with the things already mentioned the guys who have been involved in the low impedance OTL preamp project at various times wanted to hear a few of the variants we had around to get a point of reference, so that was something else we squoze into the short time we had. The complexity of my multi amp setup makes it pretty daunting to reconfigure stuff to run a standard one-amp-per-channel setup, as everything is wired for different impedances and it takes a while just to figure how to disconnect and re-rig everything, and then a while to get it back together the right way. But I'm sure we will get a chance to try the Nagas with Paramounts in the near future.
-
Dan, That's what I figured, but thanks for the confirmation. Obviously there's no rush here.
-- Jim
-
Clark, since you're a Feastrex distributor, can you tell us more about these drivers? Specifically, since your Fostex designs have had such good reviews here, what do you get more with the Feastrexes? I'm referring to the "entry level" models both with permanent magnets and field coils (I love field coils, you know?).
Also, do you think a small minimonitor/sub system such as that around your Orcas (or the Sexy speakers which seem to be of the same family not only because of the drivers but because of the philosophy as well) would be a good idea with these drivers?
thanks
-
Xcortes,
I'm so sorry I did not see your post until now. By some bizarre glitch in my browser cache it held an old page and I was wondering today if there had been any posts recently. Went out and then back into the forum and here was your post!
So indeed, the Feastrex drivers really are the cat's meow. The permendur field coils especially, Teramoto-san and Akiyama-san describe them jokingly, but effectively as "drugs without the delivery."
I'll mention up front, however, that I'm also not sure if they've ever truly shown well at audio shows in the US as nicely as I heard them in Japan. They can't be hurried. Often times, the drivers at the shows had only a few hours on them. (except for the Lotus group's "Granada" which received rave reviews).
My Oniyanma design is awesome, but I never got the chance to take it around the circuit of audio shows. One time I got the chance, family matters intervened. By now, I am ready to push the design (and envelope) further and am actually selling the original Oniyanma enclosures to help finance the next generation of RnD work to be done.
Over the course of my involvement with the drivers, I have heard Feastrexes in hundreds of settings and I've also heard (and built parts for) every model in their production line while I was an apprentice of theirs, including my own pair of drivers built from start to finish at the end of the apprenticeship. It was a true honor to work with those guys.
There are some idiosyncracies to the way one designs for these drivers, however. In some manners, they sound better in a cardboard box than a back loaded horn, (in my opinion). They have so much energy that to try to contain it is foolish. They'll make you hear deeper into the inner purities or impurities of the cabinet materials, to a degree no other driver has for me. (I've even owned a pair of the FE208ES-R). Feastrex, by comparison, makes deep excitation of the cabinet. It also "leaps" its sound into the room like none other. And so this is why it is a bad idea to tune them very low (and into the higher energy domain of cabinet wall excitation). Mr. Teramoto used to say that "If I was so interested in getting bass out of them, then concrete is a good option. Silly Americans..." But I (and Feastrex) like the tonality of wood, and especially the way that the Feastrex drivers positively interact with it when everything is truly done well.
I've never used the Oniyanmas with subs, but the next generation I will most likely explore some subwoofer options. Getting their best requires a similar approach to the way I tune my Orcas (to not stress out the full range driver by tuning it too low). Basically, in light of them not being advisable to be tuned super low, then indeed, some subs (20-60hz) would be awesome. Rythmik servos would be good, as would some nice field coil or alnico 15" woofers. GPA, Kilimanjaro, Goto, options as well.
Also, it is important especially to cut, clamp and assemble the cabinet with utmost respect to acheive a destressed cabinet environment. To do so requires prolonged processes on the tooling, run carefully, slowly, and "dead nuts on" (which among cabinet makers is a technical term ;) But yeah, definitely respectful to the requirements of every step to achieve good sound. To do any less is to blatantly disrespect the effort put into the drivers themselves.
In regards to the next generation of Feastrex cabinets being released, I'll mention that I do have something pretty exciting planned, but it will be into the new year before it is formally released...
Best,
Clark
-
Thanks Clark.
Sounds awesome (no pun intended)!
Keep us posted on your developments. I've done some crazy and financially-devastating audio "investments" during the past months but I'll keep an eye on these speakers for the future.
-
Hi all,
I've been meaning to put up photos from the party Dan and I threw a few weeks back. It was a blast.
However, until my camera battery is charged and I get some time out of the shop finishing orders, I only had time to put up a few teasers on my website's home page...Happy 2012!
-Clark
-
I put up some party pics on the Bottlehead Facebook page:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Bottlehead-Corp/112709328764825 (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Bottlehead-Corp/112709328764825)
(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fa5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-ak-snc7%2F389856_289056531130103_112709328764825_812283_1283051187_n.jpg&hash=727907556ee33dd3138f03aa96ce9efce2e4696a)
-
Time for a long overdue update on my Nagas...
Well, today, for the first time in my home, the Nagas came to life in a system that was about as new as one can get -- basically everything from the circuit breaker in the electrical panel to the speakers was brand new except that the speakers have had some time on them before they were shipped to me, and my Virtue Piano CDP has plenty of time on it -- everything else, amp, cabling, rack, was all new and thus my expectations were fairly low...
Man was I wrong! even though the Nagas are running at their full range (rolling off below 150 hz) and no subs connected yet, I heard some of the most satisfying and incridible music I've ever heard. Folks, these are some beautiful speakers -- and don't let those 3" drivers fool you into thinking these are shrill, honky, thin speakers -- they are not. They are warm, full, detailed, sound superb on all those difficult things such as pianos, female vocals, mass strings, etc. -- no trace of glare, nasties, resonances or shout anywhere and even without the subs, a very listenable and satisfying bass register.
Even quick and dirty first guess placement got me a huge coherent wall of sound in which I could not locate the drivers -- that in itself is amazing as it can usually take me weeks or months offine adjustments to get previous systems to that state.
Now as I bring the better sources online and things get more time on them, I'm sure this system is going to easily be the best I've ever had and right up there with the best I've heard.d and one of the best I've heard anywhere from a musical enjoyment perspective.
No regrets here and to prove it, there are a pair of Orcas en route to me now, and I just sent in payment for a second set of BUF subs -- this for my living room system.
Fan-tastic!
More as things progress...
-- Jim
-
Wow, what a great treat for your first listen, Jim! Congrats on the new system....
John
-
That's great to hear! As the guy who talked you into them I was concerned since everyone has different taste in speakers. I agree with your description. The imaging from those "virtual point sources" is really impressive. They make my big old multiway system sound a little vague by comparison. I think vocals sound very real out of the Nagas too.
Clark has recently updated the Orcas after we talked a bit about the differences in sound between the two speakers and he says that they are now very close to the Nagas sonically. We're rearranging things at BHQ in conjunction with our flood recovery (which is taking forf***ingever, still bare sheetrock and no carpet in the hallway). Eileen has moved to the lobby area and the headphone listening station will be in the corner office with me. We will have a rig with some of Clark's speakers and a Stereomour playing in Eileen's room.
-
John,
Thanks much, and also for that introduction to Mike -- sent the deposit into him and in a few weeks there will be some nice Sappele platforms for the speakers and subs on the way.
Dan, well, I do trust your ears :-).
Yes, my Orcas are the new design and in caramelized 'boo too and after hearing the Nagas, I can't wait to give the little guys a listen too. And if the Nagas sans subs sound as good as they do, the Orcas on their own are probably going to be very satisfying as well.
Now where's that dac? :-) JK, I know it's coming.
Thanks again for publishing your thoughts on the first listen at your place -- I had just started my search for some new speakers and the timing and your comments were in the right place at the right time and after checking out Clark's web site and emailing and talking with him, the deal was done... and they came in right at what I had intended to spend on new speakers, so everything just came together so perfectly.
Thanks again,
Jim
-
Wow, Jim. I'm so deeply honored by your comments! It is great to own a woodshop in America, great to be building speakers, but oh how entirely those niceties are dwarfed by knowing of your whole hearted satisfaction and reaffirming that from the bottom of our hearts, we are proliferating beauty.
More to come soon, still slammin' to get the shop caught up after my move.
Cheers!
-Clark
-
Clark,
I only tell it as I "see it" :-). Beauty is far more than skin deep with these speakers.
Ok, another brief status update -- sometimes one gets caught up in the excitement of the moment and can tend to blow things out of proportion when it comes to first impressions, however...
I had a couple of busy days in which I had zero time to listen, and then last night it was driving me a bit nuts wondering if my first impressions were, let's say, a bit over the top? Well, I only had a short time -- about 30 minutes to listen again, and I'm glad to report that if anything I may have understated some of the magic of this setup.
There have been many, many times when I've gone back for a second listen a day or two after my first listen to a new piece of gear/speakers, tubes, etc., and havve been taken somewhat aback and felt a little let down with the reality of the situation -- not at all with these speakers.
Anyway, in another update, the Orcas arrived today and I just unpacked them -- again, exceptionally beautiful to look at and feel, nice clean lines, and what I think 8is a new finish that is very smooth -- moreso than the Nagas -- but it could just be my imagination -- I'll have to get them side by side to confirm that. Linda gave an immediate two thumbs up and said they were stunningly beautiful. Unfortunately, I just don't have the energy to take them down to the basement and hook them up in place of the Nagas today, but hopefully tomorrow, so no listening impressions right now. I'm looking forward to it, I can tell you that much!
-- Jim
-
Clark and Molly came over last night, and brought the latest version of the Orcas, in carmelized bamboo. These have a front mounted driver like the Naga. This smooths out a wee bit of midrange prominence that the previous behind the baffle driver mount version had. We hooked them up to the server via the 300B preamp, and drove them with a S.E.X. amp.
I continue to be amazed by what these tiny little speakers can do. The soundstage they present is amazing and the lower midrange of the 300B preamp came through beautifully.
-
Dan,
Yes, got mine hooked up in the listening room for a couple hours on Sunday and again, very impressive -- though it is clear they need more time on them to open up fully to where the Nagas are.
Of course I didn't know the old version had the drivers behind the baffle so I thought that's just how they were. I did notice the back is not removable now -- just the terminal cup.
Even as they are, they really dont do any of the nasties so many other SD speakers I've owned have when new, so that in itself is a good sign of what's to come.
I just sold the old speakers in the living room system, so now when the buf subs arrive, we'll be good to go.
-- Jim
-
Yeah Dan, thanks so much for having us over. It was so much fun!
Jim - Indeed, it is the new finish that was the surprise. You were the first to be in possession of the new Tried and True linseed oil/varnish over 600 grit sanding, which is now the "standard model T finish" for everything that goes out. So perhaps even the skin deep beauty has grown in depth a bit? Anyways, that comment of yours in an email some weeks ago really helped urge me to try it (again), so I took my butt down to woodcraft and picked up a can.
I mention "again" because it was first by Terry Cain's urgings several years ago that I tried out several non toxic finishes. After doing my homework on them, I did the first 40 pairs or so in Tried and True. But eventually, I meandered over to the Osmo because the Birch seemed to take to it just a bit more consistently. But it hadn't occurred to me till you'd mentioned it recently that now that all my stuff is made of bamboo, that the Tried and True might be an even better match, and oh - how it is!
Of course, - just keeping making sure to dump the used rags in a wet air tight bucket, which is a normal precaution with any hand rubbed oil finish (!)
But oh - The smell of it is so sweet! It looks like honey. I've even been able to convince Molly to come and hang out in the shop with me while I'm finishing with this stuff. I have to be a little more careful than with the Osmo to keep from smudging it after the final wipe down between coats but other than that its pretty straightforward for me to work with. As you mentioned, Its probably the nicest wood finish available. I think as peoples' awareness of it grows, so will the company that makes it. And I swear that it helps the sound just a fraction of a percent...
Cheers,
Clark
-
Hey Clark,
Yup, it is a fantastic finish, but I can't take any credit for anything other than being a middleman -- Lee Hankins on this forum is the guy who pointed me to it in the first place.
Given his description of it and the general description of the finish you used (before I knew it was the Osmo) I just wondered if it was the T&T stuff you were using. Funny how things happen sometimes.
The end result is spectacular though! And from my perspective, it feels and smells wonderful.
Should have the new dac and file server back up in the next couple of days, and then I'm expecting even better things, and then it will be the vinyl rig. Still much to do to get everything online, broken-in and properly setup, but if it gets any better, which it will undoubtedly do, I may have reached the goal for this system -- one I can more or less leave alone and just enjoy.
-- Jim
-
I admit, this thread is making me want a pair of these just because. You have said all the things that make me want to hear them, own them.
But if I read the information right they have to be picked up. I'm in Knoxville. I get to the Pacific NW once every two or three years.
Can the Orcas be shipped? It will be a while before I can make a purchase that large, I'll have to sell some equipment that isn't being used, but I am interested.
-
Grainger,
Yes, the Orcas and BUF subs can be shipped. I certainly didn't drive up to Seattle to pick up my Nagas and Subs or my Orcas. It was the Thrashers that Clark didn't want to ship.
And the Orcas came in an approximately 14" cube box.
HTH,
Jim
-
Jim,
Thanks, I can start scheming for a way to get them.
-
I have a question for those of you using the Blumenstein Orca's. Are you using a sub? One or two? None?
I'm thinking about picking up a pair of orcas (natural bamboo) to start and then as finances allow pick up the subs at a later date. I dont listen to head banging rock anymore. In fact I gave that up a decade or two ago. I do enjoy some classic rock, blues and jazz. And occasionally I'll put on some classical music to listen in the background. Big bass is not a big deal to me really.
I have two options for powering the Orca's. An enhanced SEX amp or FPIII > Paramour II 2A3 (may wind up being a 45 amp one day). Your thoughts and impressions are appreciated.
PS: My listening room is approx 16' X 14'.
-
I'll take a shot at answering this, but as of yet I have not tried my Orcas with anything but my class A PP 6v6 amp so I can't comment on the s.e.x. or the 2a3, though my plan is to use mine with the stereomour when I get it done.
I have done most of my listening so far with just the Orcas bythemselves and no subs and found them quite acceptable for a lot of musics, but for the full spectrum and a fuller sound, even one sub will do it -- you'll be surprised how full this sounds at low listening levels. My impression is that without the subs you get a "usable response to around 50 hz, give or take -- which means you can hear it but it is not as full as you might like -- I really can't predict that for you, you'd have to listen for yourself to know if that willl work for you. With the sub there is just more body there, more substance, a fuller presentation, though it's not like you just added a wall of 15" subs -- it just completes the musical picture very nicely. I don't even really like to think of these as subs, but as bass extenders/ bass modules for the Orcas.
You should give the system 400 hours of playtime to make up your mind though as things will fill in, even out, and paint a more consistent sonic picture with time.
As for my setup, I have two buf subs on order for these Orcas because the room is fairly large (open floor plan and the inter main floor of our home) and because I want to use them as stands for the most compact, uncluttered look I can get.
Given your moniker, I'm pretty sure you will love these speakers with either of your amps, but keep an open mind about the sub, and I'd say that it would be easy to use just one for a great system.
I'm already thinking about a second pair of Orcas for my office desk/computer speakers -- to be used with my original s.e.x. 2.0 and my HRT MS II+ dac
Hope this helps,
Jim
-
Thanks Jim. I sure wish that Clark had a location closer to me. I typically like to hear speakers before I buy them. I might be in Portland OR this summer. Seattle is only about a three hour drive from there. Maybe I'll wait till then before taking the plunge.
-
Thanks Jim!
Reading that I just came up with this situation:
Single Sub: "Plug and Play"
Dual Sub: "Patience Prevails"
Yeah, I have to echo Jim and say that for those on a budget, a single sub is a fantastic option. I have set up my house system as such several weeks ago for a demonstration and have been finding further levels of refinement in the setup as I've ben honing in on the optimal range of values for the crossovers to be able to provide for my customers.
As the tag line would suggest, a benefit to the single sub option is that they are easier to tune for most people - you don't need to match the knobs between two sub amps. And the subs as a design in and of themselves sound just so "easy" that one is nice, two is nice. Much of the choice depends on your level of dedication to getting perfect stereo and the twitch of added dynamics of two subs versus one.
I've been coming up with a good design for Floorstanding and Desktop stands for the Orcas as well, which will help optimize the sound quality of the Orcas when used alone or with a single sub.
Also, I've started offering a 30 day money back guarantee on the Orcas and Subs (except shipping). Should really help out the folks who can't make it out to Seattle. (Though as always, we'd love to have you!) - Its been a really unexpected benefit of being in the stereo biz for several years now - in addition to friendships, I've gotten to hear so many peoples' favorite music from diverse walks of life.
Gotta run for now, but there will be some cool tidbits of news soon.
Cheers!
-Clark
-
Clark, Any updates on the Orca stands? I'd like to see a picture if possible. Thanks, -Tom
-
I'll get some good ones tomorrow and post 'em up. They are real doozies!
-
Hi Clark,
On your website you posted that you had been using a pair of Line Magnetic 755ex drivers in Beulahs. How did this combo turn out?
I'm interested in a full range driver with augmented sub system and am open to field coil drivers. The mid and higher ranged Feastrex are out of my price range but there are others out there and I'm glad you are experimenting with them. Do you plan on offering speakers in the middle of the line between your Fostex and Feastrex systems? Also how about large coax designs such as the GPA 604 or Kilaminjaro version?
I've to add on a personal note that I've not had a good experience with Fostex drivers with wizzer cones (I didn't mind the 165 dome cone though) and I lean toward a larger driver in personal listening experiences (8" and greater).
Regards,
Aaron
-
Ok well, guess it had to happen (again) sooner or later, so this time I'll soon be adding a pair of Orcas in natural bamboo, on stands and for use in the bedroom and paired with the s.ee.x. 2.1, and Clark will also be building a matching base for the amp. No plans for a sub with this system -- not really enough room, want to keep things simple, and really I'm finding that the Orcas by themselves will be just fine without subs in this situation.
So, what's next? :-) Not sure, but I am occasionally glancing at my stationary bike (a heavy duty, commercial gym suitable unit) and considering if I could weld up a bracket to hold a pair of Orcas in a close, near field configuration. Certainly more appealing than wearing a sweaty pair of headphones or IEMs. Yeah, this is going to get some more thought over the next couple of month...
And FYI, there was no need for a hard sell to my wife for the bedroom pair -- she loves how these look and how they sound.
-- Jim
s
-
Are the stands available yet? Any pictures of the stands yet?
Thinking about a pair of Orca's with floor stands.
Debra
-
I don't have any pictures, but I'm pretty sure Clark said he had made up several pairs of stands a while ago.
-
Talked to Clark last week, the stands are now available. I ordered a set of Orca's with stands and subs with bases. Be here in two weeks. Can't wait !!
Pat
-
Not to take anything away from Clark, but how tall are the stands? I'm aiming at having the speakers at the height of my old and ailing ears.
-
I honestly did not ask. If the drawings on his web site are to scale, the stands should be in the neighborhood of 30". Maybe Clark or Doc or someone who saw them at the last BH BSF gig can step in here.
Pat
-
Here's a link to a video of the presentation that Clark and I gave a few weeks ago. You can see the Orcas on the stands:
http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fyoutu.be%2F9Odr1w80I7k&h=4AQFalDEJAQFS71gt9DpAXG6XL2bUYC2G8Y6vvQJBQfRMTw (http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fyoutu.be%2F9Odr1w80I7k&h=4AQFalDEJAQFS71gt9DpAXG6XL2bUYC2G8Y6vvQJBQfRMTw)
-
Hi Y'all, sorry for the delay there. Have been very busy in the shop catching up after some minor foot surgery last week (so happy to have a full recovery!) and Molly has been putting together a major website update which will give the stands their own page and own photo set. Furthermore, I loaned out my Orcas on stands before I had a chance to get some photos of them a few weeks ago and I'm just now getting them back today. Will have some shots tonight.
The stands we're making are 25" tall with the Orcas sitting on top of that. This puts the driver height at 32" high. These are $400/pr. I know, not a cheap stand, but we realized during prototyping that the Orcas really needed to be done proper justice with our own stand model or we should just not make one at all.
The stands are a mass loading type - a several layer thick chunk of in house laminated bamboo panels - edge grain matched - something that we can easily offer because of our unique machining processes. This hunka burnin love is much heavier than it looks, but not grossly overdone. They are polished to the same 600 grit as the Orca. The bases and tops of the stands are detachable and they physically screw into the bottom of the Orcas (also detachable if need be). I tried alot of methods here, and as it turns out, a physical coupling gave the Orcas the best sound, and took the stand's sound out of the picture. They can also be fitted to existing Orcas via a drill bit, marking template, and instructions that we can include at no extra charge. I can't wait to get some good pictures of them.
Some more details to come soon (hopefully as soon as tonight), and thanks so much for everyone's support and patience! It means so much to Molly and I that we are actually able to be kept just that little bit "beyond" busy in our woodshop :) Its been really fun lately making so much dust.
-Clark
-
FYI...picture of Orcas on stands now on the Blumenstain website.
http://blumensteinultrafi.bigcartel.com/product/stands-for-orcas (http://blumensteinultrafi.bigcartel.com/product/stands-for-orcas)
-
btw... they look GREAT! Congrats Molly (and Clark too)!!!
-
FYI...picture of Orcas on stands now on the Blumenstain website.
http://blumensteinultrafi.bigcartel.com/product/stands-for-orcas (http://blumensteinultrafi.bigcartel.com/product/stands-for-orcas)
Very nice, thanks for the link. I notice that the "complete systems" page has been stripped down though.
-
Tom,
I think there is just some shuffling and web page redesign going on, plus now with the stands there may be another full system option -- thinking something along the lines of 1 sub and 2 orcas on stands, and probably more that I don't even know about.
It really is just Clark and now Molly too, and things have got pretty busy lately.
-- Jim
-
Not to take anything away from Clark, but how tall are the stands? I'm aiming at having the tweeters at the height of my old and ailing ears.
Grainger, The Orca driver sits 32" of the ground which should generally do it for most people while they are relaxing back, eyes shut on most couches. The Orcas also have excellent high frequency and bass dispersion characteristics, so they are not nearly as sensitive to room placement as is typical for full rangers. It all works out well too because we are able to get 2 pair of them per cutting sequence with our saw method. They are edge grain matched making it not a totally straightforward task to cut and align the 5 layers of the plywood, but we like the look alot and it lets us flex our muscle a bit with the capabilities of our equipment. Its actually alot of bamboo that goes into them, and the stuff ain't cheap so we have made them just as big as they need to be without getting to a point of diminishing returns for unnecessary added weight/height.
Will have some photos of a natural set soon as Jim Rebman's get glued up today.
Cheers man!
-Clark
-
Not to take anything away from Clark, but how tall are the stands? I'm aiming at having the tweeters at the height of my old and ailing ears.
Grainger, With the stand height of 25 inches, the Orca driver sits 32" of the ground which should do it for most people while they are relaxing back, eyes shut on most couches. Of course there is some variance between different heights of people on their different couches... But I'm going for a middle of the road/balanced out approach. Another factor at play is that the Orcas have excellent high frequency and bass dispersion characteristics, so they are not nearly as sensitive to room placement as is typical for full rangers. Meaning that a few inches up or down from driver at ear level doesn't make a huge difference sonically like the "High Frequency Laser Beam" drivers.
This height works out well for us too because we are able to get 2 pair of the stands per cutting sequence with our saw method. The edge grain matched rips make it not a totally straightforward task to cut and align the 5 layers of the plywood as well, but we like this look alot and so it lets us flex our muscle a bit with the capabilities of our equipment. Its actually alot of bamboo that goes into them, more than is in the Orcas, actually and the stuff ain't cheap. so we made them just as big as they need to be without getting to a point of diminishing returns for unnecessary added weight/height.
Will have some photos of a natural set soon as Jim Rebman's get glued up today.
Cheers man!
-Clark
-
Grainger, The Orca driver sits 32" of the ground which should generally do it for most people while they are relaxing back, eyes shut on most couches. The Orcas also have excellent high frequency and bass dispersion characteristics, so they are not nearly as sensitive to room placement as is typical for full rangers. It all works out well too because we are able to get 2 pair of them per cutting sequence with our saw method. They are edge grain matched making it not a totally straightforward task to cut and align the 5 layers of the plywood, but we like the look a lot and it lets us flex our muscle a bit with the capabilities of our equipment. Its actually a lot of bamboo that goes into them, and the stuff ain't cheap so we have made them just as big as they need to be without getting to a point of diminishing returns for unnecessary added weight/height.
Will have some photos of a natural set soon as Jim Rebman's get glued up today.
Cheers man!
-Clark
Clark,
Thanks for the detailed reply. In my "Maxell Man" position in my La-Z-Boy recliner, reclined, my ears are about 38" above the floor. That is, just evenly spaced between the tweeter in my Zerius speakers and the super tweeter augmenting my hearing loss sitting on top of the Zerius speakers.
And this is, of course, the reason for asking. I would need a 6" booster seat, I think.
BTW, since I have been accused of it so often the Maxell Man poster is framed on my listening room wall.
-
Grainger, I'm also a big fan of the "Maxell Man". I have the same poster framed above my bottlehead gear in my listening room. That iconic poster has been the symbol for serious listening for as long as I can remember. To me, it is not only nostalgic, but is sums up what the room is all about very nicely.
One of the best and most memorable ads I can think of and they didn't even place the product in the picture. Instead, they placed the picture on the product. I have several sealed Maxell cassette tapes that have the image prominently placed on the packaging.
I haven't yet been accused of actually being the Maxell man but it's probably just a matter of time.
You have great taste, Grainger.
-
Curious, What configuration are the stereomour/orca users using for the stereomour - 2a3 or 45?
The speakers look beautiful, bamboo is such a great choice - I was going to veneer some DIY PI-2 Towers in bamboo - a friend helping me build them had suggested a natural bamboo with a caramelized stripe, If i ever finish I'll post pictures . . . based on the reviews around here and their beautiful aesthetic, i might just pick these up instead ;D The fiance might agree to have these just sitting out in the living room as oppose to the small coffins I'm currently building.
-
Randall,
Thanks, from one Maxell man to another.
-
Hi Sean,
I think most would opt to use the 2a3 -- that is what I'm doing with mine (stereomour still under construction), but in a small space the 45 could work too as it has approxcimately the same output power as the s.e.x. amp -- though that isn't all there is to take under consideration).
I've got a new 3 watt single ended el84 amp arriving on Friday and you can bet that that will get connected to my Orcas with dual subs very shortly after it arrives.
As for the speakers, bamboo does look nice )at least I'm pretty partial to it), but in the Orca, it plays a far more significant role than just appearance and I assure you that a veneered MDF Orca could never sound anything like a bamboo ply one. The material of the cabinet, as well as paints, coatings, and veneers can all effect sound pretty significantly. Even people who have heard the older, baltic birch ply version of the Orca and the bamboo version say the bamboo is a real step up. Of course, if you've followed this thread, Clark has made some changes to his original design or the Orca and now uses a different finishing product and I got the first of these new models with the new finish, and I have to say that they sound simply amazing regardless of their size. Again, I think you will be pleasantly surprised.
Evrybody I've recommended them to now who has gone ahead and bought a pair is amazed and elated with their performance, and none of these folks has anywhere near full break-in time on them. Being a veteran of breaking in many, many fostex drivers I can also say that it is no exaggeration that something very special happens after 400 hours of break-in time and when you get there you will absolutely know it.
Good luck,
Jim
-
I am seriously considering ordering a pair of these soon.
Has anyone one heard a difference between the two finishes? I read that the caramelized bamboo is harder than the natural, and can have an impact on sound.
Debra
-
Deborah,
Yes, that is true that the caramelized is a bit harder than the natural but I can't yet tell you how significant the sonic difference is, but the natural is a bi8t warmer and may have a bit more depth of tone and the caramelized a bit more dynamic and neutral -- but we're not tlaking huge differences here.
My Nagas are natural and my orcas caramelized but the Nagas have much more time on them and are in a completely different system and a treated room, so it is not a good comparison. My new Orcas that are coming will be Natural and after I get enough time on both sets of Orcas it will be easy to compare them, though in all honesty I expect the differences to be pretty subtle.
I think most people are simply choosing the look they like more than anything as the room and front end gear are likely to have a much greater influence on the sound.
HTH,
Jim
-
Grainger, So glad you chimed in with the Maxell man reference! That's one of my favorite pieces of HiFi art. Particularly impressionable to me when I was a little kid making beastie boys and Jane's Addiction mix tapes (sure shows my age, I know!)
If you need some added HF reinforcement then we could work a method to get them taller, but still mass loaded effectively as the stands do. We could either angle them a few degrees upwards for you (easy) Or, for some extra money to cover the bamboo, we could make them physically taller.
One note is that to toe them in pointed directly at your ears will get you the flattest, strongest HF presence in the mix. They kindof work like a stationary set of headphones in that case. I totally understand your listening requirements btw, everyone has their own set of ears to please to be sure. I actually got into HiFi originally (more than the quoted ten years ago) because of my interest and study of the mechanisms behind hearing loss after a brush with a month of solid tinitus after a rock concert when I was young. It went away, and I "never did THAT again..." but the concern over maintaining my hearing put it in my mind that I should start thinking about how I might help peoples' health with my engineering tendencies. And it turns out that a more "pleasant" set of overtones will cause less hearing loss than a more "ragged" sounding set, given the same volume level (I wish I remember where I found that article...). But in either case, it made me realize that I needed to start listening to higher fidelity equipment, because of all the music listening I was doing at the time.
And yes I really have to echo, Jim's comments that everything really does matter. Molly has been putting together an article about our approach to construction on the new website that should paint a much clearer picture of why it is that we build small speakers that you wouldn't know are small unless you opened your eyes to look at them.
I actually wore my TJ 45 tubes out during the development phase of the Orca and Jim is being really kind to be sending me some NOS ones to try out as well. Also, I'll be picking up a set of EL 45s to mess around with pretty soon here because they were also Terry Cain's reference tubes in his Electronluv monoblocks. And man, did those things sound good!
So suffice it to say that the 45 does work with the Orca, its just that I haven't heard them recently. Also, in time we'll be picking up a set of JJ 2A3s which are supposed to be very fine sounding as well.
And Sean, indeed, the Orca was designed as a crossover product in so many ways - they are well made and fun to listen to so they can serve as excellent "mean-time" speakers until a big project is finished up... but they also might find themselves assured living room residency in either case.
My stereo system before I met Molly was actually the PA system I was putting together last year before it sent off to our client, who at the time was the CEO and founder of Etsy.com. I was serious with this project. It took a year to conceive, build and fully tune, and I even rented a space in the industrial district that I could live in and test with loud music legally 24/7! To give you an idea, there were many hours spent adjusting and designing it while I was wearing hearing protection :) But funny enough though, besides an RTA, I was actually using a set of Orcas and subs as my reference speakers to tune this PA system's fully programmable phase, eq, and crossover slopes. It was really cool to be able to get the two totally different systems sounding so similar to each other, just that the big one got louder. So much louder...
But oh right! Back to my wife... When Molly and I married it was clear that, while she loved the sound of the PA system I was building she was not quite willing to take the leap to live in the industrial district of south downtown, Seattle with me so that another one could be built and tested. So we moved into her place in Belltown and brought the Orcas with us. Several larger speakers were given a shot as well. I should preface this by saying that Molly is a VERY patient and understanding woman, so she was even open to the idea of a pair of Thrashers with my FE166ES-R drivers in them (which sounded great, but didn't quite allow us to walk all the way around the room without loosing the high frequencies or be able to understand the lyrics while listening at background volume levels. But after a while, as more evenings were being spent with our eyes actually closed, sitting back and enjoying the music, she (and I) had to admit that we came to prefer the sound of the Orcas with or without the Sub to whatever else I was able to cook up. They just sounded better, so we kept them.
But back to the Maxell Man, gosh am I looking forward to being able to being "blown away" by 45 tubes again soon!
Cheers,
Clark
-
I just ordered a pair with stands in caramelized. Looking forward to listening to them Will try it first with my existing sub, may end up getting the sub in the future
Thanks
Debra
-
Debra,
Congrats -- excellent choice.
If I may offer a suggestion, listen to them for a good while without any sub so you can really appreciate all they can do on their own.
Shortly after getting mine setup and sitting on the subs, a buddy stopped in and stopped in his tracks and said "wow, those sound amazing". They were fairly new at the time and the subs weren't even connected so I told him to take a look behind and notice that all the sound he was hearing was coming from the two tiny boxes on the top, to which he replied, "That's *really* amazing!"
BTW, this guy has my old, very modified Horn Shoppe Horns and Cube sub, a Musical Paradise SE 6v6 amp and a Wavelength Proton dac, so he's used to some pretty decent sound.
-- Jim
-
Yes Deb, Congrats. Please give us a "review" a week or two after you get them setup. ENJOY... :)
-
Jim,
when do you expect to get your "natural" Orcas (and stands I believe)?
-
Glen,
I don't know -- whenever Clark finishes and ships them I guess :-).
Seriously, I'm recovering from pneumonia and have plenty on my plate at the moment, so I'm sure they'll arrive after the current batch ships. I know Clark and Molly are really busy getting these things built and shipped and I just keep forgetting to ask him where my new set stands in the queue.
-- Jim
-
Yeah, Clark and Molly are in the same boat as Eileen and I, pedaling as fast as possible. We touch base pretty regularly, and we keep putting off getting together 'cause we have too much catching up on orders to do.
-
But back to the Maxell Man, gosh am I looking forward to being able to being "blown away" by 45 tubes again soon!
Clark; At one of the early VSAC soir
-
I have been talking with Clark by email, and decided to add an Orca sub also. I am very impressed by his service and the speed he responds.
It is such a pleasure to find companies like Bottlehead and Blumenstein Ultra Fi
Thanks
Debra
-
Debra,
Another good move! :-)
Ok, to everybody, I got an email from a friend who is not a bottlehead and not on this forum, but who asked me about the Orcas sometime back afterwhich he subsequently bought a pair.
Last night I got an email from him that went something like this:
"Jim,
My Orcas are getting better every week now... I think these are my speakers for life!"
Just had to pass that along. (and BTW, he's using a 3 watt SE (non-dht) amp and no subs yet.
-- Jim
-
Hi all!
A quick update: we had to slow down a few orders to get everyone who's currently on the order board - on board with this initiative:
We've updated the Orca Sub Design to use a paper cone woofer. The old BUF Sub was very, very good, but we felt that it needed something else... a "je ne sais quoi." after many evenings philosophizing and measuring, we decided that it needed to possess the ability to really absolutely thunder in order to keep up with the newer Orca design. So - we gave it that ability, while simultaneously enhancing its integration with the Orcas' upper bass characteristics and a few other things. Oh - and a few more hertz extension on the bottom end.
We're really excited about this update ourselves and we've finally gotten them back in production again last week, shipping out the first batch as soon as tomorrow and then into next week. We don't have photos of the new sub on the website as of yet. Will have some as soon as the dust settles.
We also updated our website and business name:
http://www.blumensteinaudio.com/
This was primarily a project of Molly's that took her quite some time to complete because she slowly and surely felt out every option and to really meditated and collaborated with Josh and Andrew and I to try to convey the feeling of the speakers themselves - albiet in a virtual sense. She did not even know HTML before a few months ago. She was still working in Elliot Bay Book Co where she'd been at for many years. All I can say is that she's definitely keeping her new job :) But I've got to get to training her in the shop for a good stretch first here...Lots of sawdust to make!
Cheers!
-Clark and Molly
-
This is good to hear. Looking forward to getting the Orca's and sub in my system
Thanks
Debra
-
Debk,
You'll be amazed at the sound that comes from such a small speaker. I just got mine earlier this week and am really pleased with them. They look great as is, but went ahead and put a coat of Briwax Teak on them to give them an "amber glow". I'm really hooked on the glow...tubes, wood, etc. ::).
Joel in Tennessee
-
wow, they look great. Can't wait to get mine
Deb
-
Joel,
Didn't kknow you ordered a pair -- did you get a sub too? Stands?
As for how good they sound now... just wait!
-- Jim
-
No, I'm using my existing sub for now. It's a small 8" unit and seems to work well with the Orcas. Plus, the wood on the Orca match the cherry subwoofer cabinet now. ;)
I'm using some modified cherry Sonus stands I already had; again matching wood! Clark showed me how he attached to his stands, so I followed his advice.
I can already tell from only a few hours listening they are getting better and better.
Joel
-
Joel,
I don't know if this will happen with the drivers in the Orcas, but one an earlier pair of horn shoppe horns I had, the final change was rather dramatic -- these were fe-126 drivers though, so not sure if this will happen with the smaller ones or not.
Many people talked about "it" happening to their speakers -- meanint that one day they'd just walk past their system playing in the background and notice that they sounded different -- in fact, much different and much better than before. Well, I decided I was goiing to listen intently for all the hours necessary to see if I could hear a change that dramatic and what it was, and sure enough I did.
One day -- somewhere in the 400-420 hour mark I suddenly heard this sound of total confusion and distress coming from one speaker and that lasted for about 3 seconds. My instinct was to get up and turn off the amp as I thought it was a tube self-deestructing. As soon as I got up there was a sound, that I can only describe as similar to when your ears equalize after landing in an airplane and then the sound was far better -- cleaner, more dynamic, more transparent, none of the weirdnesses of the previous time the speakers had been playing -- essentially like a whole different driver was instantly swapped in for the old one.
After that it was clear that the one speaker sounded far better than the other one and naturally it started to bother me. I was patient and in about another 40 minutes or so, the other speaker did exactly the same thing, and from then on they were both far better than they had ever been.
I have no explanation for what I heard -- it almost sounded like the surround inverted itself, got stuck and then popped back in place and left me with a whole new driver. Only thing I could conclude is that this was "it" and that I had heard "it" happen in real time. The only changes from that time on were very subtle and gradual.
-- Jim
-
It sounds like you went through a time/sound continuum shift and survived. I can't wait!
Joel
-
I think the most common conjecture is that it has to do with the fiber structure in the cone softening a bit from flexing, letting some manufacturing-induced stress even out. It might be interesting to do laser interferometry or high speed video or some other method of observing the cone surface to see if there is some change in the way it flexes and recovers at various resonance modes when new and again after 400 hours. I wonder if anyone has done that and shared their findings? (I imagine there is plenty of proprietary data to that effect)
-
Joel,
I didn't realize that the natural speaker could be stained. What a beautiful outcome! Now I have to find something to sell.
-
Dan,
Yes, that would be really interesting to do and yes, the sound was something not unlike oil-canning. Whatever it was, it was pretty weird.
-- Jim
-
I used Briwax rubbing wax (Teak) over the finished carmalized bamboo to have them match the cherry stands and existing subwoofer I'm using. It's a gel that you apply and then buff off. It took me 3 trys to get the color I was looking for and also improved my upper body strength with all the buffing!
Warning: If anyone else tries this, don't wax over Clark's signature. I almost erased it! The wax uses toluene for a cleaner and will remove ink quick!
Joel
-
Debk,
You'll be amazed at the sound that comes from such a small speaker. I just got mine earlier this week and am really pleased with them. They look great as is, but went ahead and put a coat of Briwax Teak on them to give them an "amber glow". I'm really hooked on the glow...tubes, wood, etc. ::).
Joel in Tennessee
Your speaker look cool. That clock is bad ass!!!
Pfenning
-
Thanks, the clock came from Target a few years ago.
Joel
-
After reading all the info on break in periods for speakers, I've decided to take my new Orcas to our cabin this weekend and hook up to play 24/7 for the next couple weeks after we leave. That should get a good start on the recommended 400 hour break in . I've also got a pair of Fostex 166e's that need "loosening up" as well. I'll use my old Onkyo A-7 from college days that supports 2 pairs of speakers with a CD player set to repeat.
I believe Grainger recommended hooking one of the pair out of phase and face them towards each other. Is that correct?
Don't get me wrong, the Orcas sound great as is, I just want to get them as good as they can be.
Any music suggestions that the deer and racoons will like? ;D
Joel in Tennessee
-
Joel,
The out of phase trick cancels much of the sound but allows you to work the speakers in well.
I guess a pair of blaring speakers in your cabin would bother no one and work to ward off anyone thinking about breaking in.
Regardless, the speakers will break in, in phase or out of phase.
I think one of the "Bachelor's Den" CDs is a wild things theme.
-
Some Hank Williams Senior ought to make them Tennessee Deer and Racoon smile.
Pat
-
Aren't most of the dramatic changes from "break-in" ( i.e. lower Fs, "bass extension" weight and dynamics) really to do with "relaxing" of corrugated lower spider (presumably composed of sometime of fabric and thermo-formed resin) , and to lesser degree upper surrounds?
In the case of moderate to high sensitivity FR drivers, or those that aren't played at high SPLs, this can take a long time - one new model of paper coned FR driver by Mark Fenlon is reputed to need over 500hrs to fully open up. That's a long time to wait til you're sure about damping / BSC, EQ or other forms of correction.
bainjs - nice work on staining the bamboo
-
Any music with good full range and dynamic range is good for breakin. I try not to thrash them early on, but honestly, I don't actively set out to "break in" the Orcas before I listen to them critically. I have the luxury of knowledge of what their final character is and so I can enjoy the process of getting there. Its like the way that a road trip seems shorter on the way back, because you already know what your destination looks like.
Mr. Teramoto called the sound of a brand new set of Feastrex drivers "the crying of a baby." I feel that it is a really apt analogy. Feeling like a proud new father of the Orcas every time that I fire a new set up, I couldn't imagine cringing at the sound of my own baby's cry.
With the Orcas (and for most speakers), generally, its good to start them out a little soft for the first 10-20 minutes, gradually upping the volume over the first few hours until you are at a normal listening level. The Orcas' enclosures, driver to cabinet front tuning and etc. are designed with their final, broken in Fs and dynamic behavior in mind. They still do not need stuffing or damping, filtration, eq, or BSC to sound right. This aspect of their not needing any handicaps took quite a while to design. Once the final breakin character is reached, the benefits of their "lack of handicaps" are impossible to ignore.
However, the fact that their tuning keeps in mind their eventual sound does make them sound rather "small" and a little funny, slightly pinched (but not shouty) for the first several hours. Stretch their legs and patiently wait for them to open up, and they will keep stretching your mind to keep up with their calm, surprisingly large, yet fast sound.
The FE83En is a very stout driver, easy to listen to, however you can be rough on them if you need to, even bottom the cone out against the magnet occasionally (within reason). I've still yet to fry a pair.
With the Orcas, you are getting more than just a good driver or a good box - you are getting an entire speaker that works together as a cohesive design. The kinks have long since been weeded out, and even as much as we strongly believe in the kind of performance that the Orcas offer, we still offer a return policy that we actually honor. No matter how nice a sound is, no speakers' sound is for everybody, so our mission is to give everybody the chance to patiently break them in and try them out with open lines of direct communication with us along the way on how to optimize their Orca setups to their rooms and associated equipment.
Joel - Nice wax job, man! It makes me proud that you've treated them like a Sunday hot rod! I can try wax, but on a few conditions - no petroleum distillates (tolulene). Its probably cool for you a finish with volitile organic compounds (VOCs) occationally, but I just can't afford to get exposed to it every day. Late in life, Terry Cain urged me to stay away from any toxics as he thought them to be the root of his Lou Gherigs disease - spending 30+ years applying off the shelf finish products with petroleum distilates, even with adequate ventillation. The problem is, they accumulate in your body over time without your knowledge and probably never leave until they've already done too much damage to the central nervous system (or whatever your genetic "weak spot" may be).
Also, the application has got to be easy breezy. There are so many hours that get put into the Orcas already, it would be impossible for us to not raise the price substantially
for a "looks only" option. Generally, we consider ourselves to be a "sound only" company. Even the differences between bamboo colors are for sonic reasons primarily http://www.blumensteinaudio.com/faq/bamboo/natural-vs-caramelized.html (http://www.blumensteinaudio.com/faq/bamboo/natural-vs-caramelized.html). We'd offer other kinds of bamboo like the stranded if they worked well sonically, but we feel that the Natural and caramelized are the best tradeoffs.
The buffed linseed oil is the best finish - for the strength and the minimal weight on the wood - that we know of. Also, it is pretty unique in the audio world for us to be able to offer a truly non toxic finish (and glue, and wood filler, and inner plywood glue). You can touch them safely, even when brand new and enjoy the fragrance of the linseed oil/varnish instead of something like a "new car" smell that you get from most speakers when they are freshly unboxed. Last spring there was a cancer patient who purchased our speakers for music therapy purposes for instance. He purchased them in order to outperform his old pair of Micropure Kotaros (a $3500 pair of bookshelves designed and marketed before the recession began). And outperform they did.
Ok, well, that's it for now.
Take your Orcas outdoors and enjoy the summer!
(We're making alotsa sawdust, many orders shipping soon!)
-Clark
P.S. - Pics -
- "The Chair" Nearfield listening setup
- Chad W/new setup. Note the new sub amplifier, Matching Bottlehead Stereomour chassis and new sub driver. This setup had REALLY nice dynamics. This day in particular I was surprised at the Stereomour's power versus my Paramour setup.
-
I couldn't imagine cringing at the sound of my own baby's cry.
Spoken like a guy who hasn't had kids yet...
-
I couldn't imagine cringing at the sound of my own baby's cry.
Spoken like a guy who hasn't had kids yet...
Hahaha!!! Too true! The first cry is eureka. That they cry for so long can be trying.
-
Hi all, a quick update that we've been unexpectedly swamped with orders and then saw a few delays over the last few weeks but the production has progressed well and is now marching on sprightly.
The systems we are about to ship out over the coming two weeks are our very finest woodwork and sonic work yet. Its been evident at every stage in the shop. We are really excited for the way these systems will sound.
One quick note is that folks should please not remove the Orca driver. Removing it and putting it back on by an untrained hand/ear is sure to disturb the delicate manner in which the driver frame is actually tuned/decoupled from the Orca cabinet. The tolerances for this are quite literally down to a few human hairs. This tuning is CRITICAL to the sound quality of the Orcas as a proper tuning allows us to use zero damping material inside the cabinet. As mentioned before, the full benefits of zero damping become apparent after they've seen many hours of compassionate break in. We'll be putting a note in each Orca shipping container to that effect to accompany all these newbies shipping out.
If your curiousity burns to see what is inside, just use a dental mirror through the port. Or just ask and we are happy to share everything to satisfy your curiousity about our design process. Also, if you have ever removed your driver and aren't sure how to get it back on, just call us and we'll walk you through how to get it back on the right way.
Cheers!
-Clark
-
Assuming they are wood screws, could you put some clear nail polish or varnish on the screw where it contacts the speaker frame to prevent movement? Temperature changes will sometime loosen them.
30 hours play time and counting ... Sound seems to be "opening" up some.
Joel
-
Joel,
The screws are actually held under persistent tension by the associated mounting hardware for the drivers - the mechanical equivalent of a lock washer - Also, I've been using a drill bit that gives a very tight fit for the screw shaft/threads in its hole, so they are rather hard to turn. After many, many years all wood dries out and so does the screw threads loosen their grip a bit, but this should take quite some time. Also, the screws can be tightened back again by the end user with our personal instruction.
Indeed, the sound should just be beginning to open up a bit after 30 hours, Joel. Try playing them a little louder to get the driver moving around a bit. The bass will come in a good bit, then the final change is in the midrange gaining an immense amount of transient response. This gives the sense of proper "space" and even "slam" (I know, hard to believe from a 3"er but it is there!) in the presentation of music.
We've got a ton of orders shipping out this week and some really cool projects that are just getting finished up.
After many months of what seems like 8 day weeks, we've been fully settled into our new shop for a month(no benches or major tools, extension cords, or vacuum hoses have moved in a month! Woohoo!) This took an a bunch of unnecessary motions and inefficiencies out of our production. Getting things done quicker, brighter, and happier than expected these days. Hoping to have shrunk our wait time down to just 1-3 weeks by the middle of August - which is a HUGE and exciting step for us (wish us luck, its a TON of work!). Right now though, these next few weeks is a strong push to the finish line for this new initiative of the quicker turn around time on Made-To-Order Blumensteins.
Also, the sound quality of the Orcas, Stands, and Subs has really taken a step forward these last several months. Such satisfying breakthroughs.
Cheers to all, Keep enjoying your musical lives,
Clark
-
Clark and Molly combined a trip to her Aunt's home in Eugene, a delivery/set up session for my new Orcas/BUF Subs system and ongoing selections of my pottery for their table.
We got things playing happily by 8pm, settled down to a meal of Dutch Babies, and then they stayed overnight instead of hitting the road.
It was good to have the extra time to be sure they had time for picking the pottery, and then they were back on the road to Seattle and work work work!
I will report on the sound as they settle in to their new home and electronics(all Bottlehead Custom, of course!)
I did listen to Klaus Tennstedt's EMI recording of Mahler's Ninth..... Remarkable 'urgently alive' quality.
Cheers, Hank
-
Aw, thanks, Hank!
We had such a good time visiting, and your hospitality was an elixer to our spirits.
Yeah, your system was sounding really nice for such young drivers. As the subs break in, you'll notice yourself adjusting the gain on your sub amp a bit down once the subs fully "wake up." And also, I might suggest the fun experiment to make use of the solid state active cross you had on hand and bi-amping them with the Dynaco ST 70 you had (might be really cool!), or to just get a pair of our own sub amp boxes with the 12 DB/oct. crossover eventually. The 18 DB/oct on your Dayton APA150 sounded a twitch steep, but nonetheless good overall. Definitely sufficient for the first good while of breaking your system in.
Besides the crossover steepness being a factor, I've also found that the best bass integration can come from the full range speaker wire level input being used on sub amps - which assures that the bass character and "phaseyness" unique to each power triode that is used on the Orcas does also come through the sub drivers by extension. This has seemed to give the best blend in our experience, however all that experience mentioned, your frankly stunning Paul Birkland built amplifier system was making VERY well integrated bass by virtue of the total component and amplifier quality alone. The Nearfield was so holographic!
Really honored to be a part of your system considering all this and also especially considering your musical tastes.
Cheers,
Clark
-
It seems like EVERYONE is into Fostex these days! I kind of saw it as a 'fadish' kind of thing. I'm still listening to my Magnepans and I'm starting to feel like a looser! I can see going to a cone for bass and low mids, but I dont know! Cone tweeter? I'm still not convinced. My tweeter ribbon is almost five ft. long. No stress or strain. I'm trying, I really am, although I really dont want to be building a speaker project right now. At least that's what I keep telling myself. I will have to admit, that I sometimes fantasize about building a box speaker with ribbon tweets, mids.
-
Hmmm, Magnepans to Blumensteins, kind of like me going from a Krell KST 250S to Paramours (in two steps).
-
This is exactly the path I
-
Local folks might want to come by Bottleheadquarters Saturday evening. From 7-9 Clark will be demonstrating something non-Fostex - a pair of speakers using the very exotic Line Magnetics 755-EX full range field coil drivers. We'll be driving them with Paramount amps, our 300B preamp prototype and Tape Project tapes. This promises to be a pretty special opportunity, as these drivers are rather rare.
By the way, the festivities start around 2 on Saturday with a Head Fi meet. Come early, hear lots of different headphone rigs, grab a beer next door at 6 and come back at 7 for the speaker demo!
-
Rick,
I hear you and am doing much the same thing, plus taking money and complexity out of my digital rig and putting it into my analog side.
We hoped to be mostly moved in about two weeks or so now, and then shortly after the whole system will start to come together in it's new form -- Nagas, Orcas, subs and BH amplification all playing happily together (in two systems, that is.)
-- Jim
-
Hey Jim; You are going to have a wonderful time setting up your new speakers. Clark & Molly were here over the weekend and he set mine up in about two hours, juggling X-over points from the Orca to the Subs, levels to same, and eliminating smearing boundary effects. They are breaking in nicely, and in a hundred or so hours will be playing their best. So far, the Waterlily Acoustics recordings seem especially 'real' on them.
Good Luck with yours! Hank
-
Hey Clark,
Do the 755Ex cabinet requirements are the same as the 755As?
Saludos
-
Xavier, I think so. We build ours with a tunable port (pics coming soon). This allows for miniscule adjustments to the cabinet tuning (millimeters) as the driver breaks in or in the case of the field coil, differing field coil voltages.
Cheers,
Clark
-
Ported! That is interesting. I don't think I've ever seen a ported box for 755s. Maybe the Shindo.
-
I have to say the Ultra Fi system looks very nice. It's also very cool to see folks like the Blumenstein's enjoying their business. Their enthusiasm seems to come right through. The addition of the Line Magnetics 755-EX full range field coil drivers is also very enticing. I'll be living vicariously hoping for sonic impressions.
John
-
Recieved my Orca's and Sub's. Amazing simply Amazing. The finish is remarkable, they look very small when not on but grow to huge as soon as they are turned on. My brother was there as I unpacked and assembled them. The 1st hour they sounded small and flat and my brother said "I like the ZU Druids better, I can't listen to this and walked out. Four hours later after a noticeable jump in the sound quality he came back in and sat down and said holy cow these things sound amazing. I had to nod my head, my smile was to big to comment.
I still haven't figured out how to set up the second sub yet but we all should have such problems.
Thanks Clark and Molly
Pat
-
Dear Pat, That's excellent that they are plugged in and warming up some!
We are in the process of making some specialized wiring harnesses for the subwoofer amplifier and will have them off to you as soon as possible. We've been trying to sort out what is the ideal connectors and such - but without breaking the bank sourcing custom connectors. Also, it looks like we forgot to send off the instructions about how to set up the sub and so we just uploaded them to the website.
http://www.blumensteinaudio.com/faq/orca-speakers/how-do-i-setup-the-orcas-with-the-orca-subwoofer.html
For a dual sub setup, just hook one channel of the main stereo amp into just one side of each sub amp's high level input. (and of course, we can always help by phone). You just match the levels between gain and crossover frequency between the two amps. They sit around 9:30-10:00 o clock for the gain, 10:00-11:00 for the crossover frequency. I mention a fairly wide range because it will depend somewhat on room placement. I try to just get the sub level perceptibly flat. This usually means starting a little higher in level and then working the gain lower and lower.
The new wiring harnesses we are sending off (NC) should help with the setup quite a bit, however, and it will change a bit of the way all of this looks and the speed with which it can be hooked up.
Oh man, I can't wait to see what you think of the dual sub setup... once it all breaks in it is positively the least subwooferey sound I have ever been able to acheive with any of the stereo systems I've built. And - it will slam you in the chest!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQjVN13dI10
Ok, well, just let me know how they continue to improve!
Cheers,
Clark
-
Hi Pat,
Excellent news! Does your brother believe in break-in now? :-) Just wait until they all have some good time on them and you simply won't believe your ears.
-- Jim
-
Yes Clark, a labor of love.
Jim I am looking forward to the break in. I retire next Friday and listening to music is going to be a large part of what I do.
Pat
-
What's the height of the main speaker when mounted atop one of the subs? That seems to me the ideal set-up, in part of course because it saves on having to get the stands.
Also, why the optional subwoofer base? What's its advantage?
I wonder how these babies would compare with my Klipsch...
-
Speakers on the subs works well. There is a bit of an advantage to the speakers being on separate stands in that you can then move the subs around the room until you find the place that gives the smoothest bass response - a place which might not be right under the speakers.
-
Hey Pat,
Congratulations on your retirement! You got yourself one absolutely perfect retirement gift. With the stellar amplification ahead of it you are simply going to be loving this setup for a long time to come.
Sam, there's only one way to find out :-).
-- Jim
-
Yeah, Pat,
Thanks again a million for taking the plunge on the "whole kit and kaboodle" system from us. I wish I could spend as much time in front of my own Orca system as you will be able to! Haha! At BHQ at last month's head fi meet Dan ran his Paramounts with tape through the Orcas and it was one of the best nearfiled experiences I've ever had. Crazy performance given the relatively diminutive price tag of the amps and everything else added up. I've heard a number of five figure systems that didn't even come close.
Jim was right on with the stand suggestion - in very small rooms the subs as stands are great because of the even smaller total system footprint. The speaker stands, however, do very effectively mass load the Orcas in order to solidify their sonic image, allow for independent subwoofer placement, and also as a new feature we take orders for the stands at custom height. Just send us the seated height from the floor to your ear and we'll take care of the rest.
So the breakdown between the dual subs as stands versus the single sub and column stands is:
-If you are looking for better deep bass resolution on a budget, and just "the most sound from the least space consumed," then the dual subs as stands are a good choice.
-If you are looking for slightly clearer mid bass (orca mass loading), and slightly improved imaging (Precise choice of driver height and also slightly more perfect point source), then the stands and single sub is the best approach.
Of course, either system (or even just a sole pair of orcas) can be added to incrimentally as budget, time allows.
The bases for the subs are offered to assure stability in whichever configuration they are intended to stand in - and that's pretty much it. I do not think that the bases affect the sonics in any particular way - though they do make it easier to use spikes or isolation pods or whathaveyou.
Cheers!
-Clark
-
Clark and Molly have been busy getting orders out! I also received my Orcas, stands, and subwoofer on Friday. Everything looks fantastic. Just the amount of care in packaging a shipment must stress a 2 person operation and take hours
-
Man, you guys are killing me! :D
If I were an obstreperous little kid I'd be jumping up and down, both feet at a time with my fists clenched screaming, "I want mine I want mine I want mine!". But I won't do that.
I'm so glad you guys are getting to experience this for yourselves -- there's reallly no good way to explain how such a small speaker can sound so big and so good.
This week I'll have my caramelized Orcas mounted on the living room wall (and btw, I found a great wall mount bracket that works great with the Orcas), so we'll have music soon, but it's the natural bamboo ones with the stands and the new papercone woofer I'm just itching to hear.
Enjoy the ride and the destination...
-- Jim
-
Hi Jim! Just joined the forum because I realized that I didn't have to keep tapping on Clark's shoulder ("You should mention this..." "Tell Jim that...") and that I should just hop on board!
Which wall brackets did you find to work well?
-Molly
p.s. obstreperous... good word.
-
Good golly, Miss Molly! Welcome aboard!
The brackets I got can be found on the following page:
http://www.bracketsandstands.com/Pinpoint_AM40_Side_Clamping_speaker_wall_mount_p/am40.htm
I'm not sure I'm going to use the side clamps or not, and I may drill a third hole in the bottom plate, but that may not be necessary. I also plan to use either some rubber or other damping polymer sheet under the speaker, and will use a similar method to mount the speakers to the brackets as the drivers are mounted to the cabinets. Might even get to that tonight if I can find the damping sheet.
Now... about that obstreperous kid... he wants his! :-)
-- Jim
-
Think I'll get me a pair of these with a single sub...caramelized finish...to go with my S.E.X. 2.1 I'm looking for speaker system for a small room (near field)...that will go well with my tube amps (bottlehead (of course)).
I struggled for a bit on 2 subs or 1... then I realized that I have no clue what I'm doing. So, 1 sub it is.
Basically, I listen mostly to late 60's early 70's classic rock. I do listen to modern stuff...but the majority is classic rock. I want to get more into classical...however, I have no clue what to get? I know I like strings...cello...violin...viola...etc... So, 1812 is the best I have gotten so far. I'm open to suggestions.
I don't intend on getting any stands. Just One matched pair of Orcas in Caramelized bamboo and a sub. They'll be sitting on an anthro cart bench...between a few (video) monitors. you know...all this stuff I'm piling on my "Desk"...I've not any room left for the serviceability of the desk. It's merely a "work bench" for audio stuff.
I'm not bothered by it. ;)
-
Just an update, thhough I sort of hesitate to post it because it mostly concerns the no longer available Nagas...
Anyway, Clark was able to spend a couple of nights and all day this past monday with us after RMAF. Hanging out with Clark is a treat in itself, but when we got down to business it was just great to see (hear?) him go to work. He and I have both known that there was an audible bump around 300 hz on the Nagas, so we took them apart, took out the old stuffing and replaced it with some better, more dense material and buttoned them back up again. Then Clark went about hooking the full system up to the little 3 watt single-ended el84 LM mini 218 amp and we gave it a listen -- the first time in many months since these speakers have had any use. Well, it sounded good, but it obviously needed a bit of loosening up after sitting so long, and one grateful dead album at a moderately high volume took care of that and they began to sound pretty good. Then we rolled some tubes and again, these were totally NOS and the driver tubes especially needed to calm down in the top end, and over the course of the day it did just that. BTW, it seemed that Clark and I both latched on to the changes as they happened and we were both very surprised how much these tubes changed in the few hours we had them playing. BTW, the source was a Virtue Audio Piano CDP -- decent, but certainly not reference quality. Anyway, the music coming out of these things was really quite good considering that the amp only had about 10 hours on it, the cables, tubes, and subs were all basically new, and we were using a hodge podge of random stock power cords. Bottom line is that these are really some very special speakers and I'm sure that when I move them into the dedicated listening room, swap out the aluminum cone woofers in the subs with paper cone ones, and get the BH front end, turntable and good dac/computer in the mix, they are going to be spectacular. But even as they are, I have to say they are simply the most enjoyable speakers I've ever had.
BTW Ken, these Nagas have their natural rolloff starting much higher than the Orcas, so two subs are mandatory with these, so don't take it to mean that two subs are mandatory with the Orcas.
Also, if anybody is looking for a caramelized sub, give me a shout -- after a lot of thought, there is just nowhere I can really put them in our living room system. Edit: sub has been claimed.
Thanks,
Jim
-
Jim,
"so long, and one grateful dead album at a moderately high volume took care of that" You cracked me up. What else to loosen up a stiff driver. Well, you know what I mean.
-
Grainger,
It was actually Clark's selection -- but on the other hand I didn't resist at all :-).
Now, when I get the Eros up and running, I'll probably want to feed it a bit of the new Fela Kuti box set of LPs -- nothing like some afrobeat to loosen things up!
-
Haha, Grainger! What a long, strange trip RMAF was!
-
Clark,
Thanks! That was my generation but not a band I followed. And I mean that literally as well. But I know a few Dead Heads who were born in 1949 too. That is the "49" part of my moniker.
-
Glad I'm not the only 49er old dude hanging out here ..... 5/1/49. Always knew us hippie geeks were special ......
-
First, Jim, I'm sorry I didn't have the chance to meet you last weekend. Clark and I just couldn't afford to have both of us out of the shop at that time. Good news is, I had a chance to put another coat of finish on some of your system!
As for the Nagas, we actually have one pair left, which has been in limbo during a couple of moves and shop and storage reorganization (my parents snatched up the second to last pair). This pair is currently missing the solid wood baffles, which need to be sanded and finished, and also the electronics, but we have plans to finish them as new speakers--the last of their kind. Really cool solid wood for the baffles: bookmatched curly black walnut from a wind-fallen tree of Walla Walla, WA. Having the Nagas to work on again, Clark and I really want to incorporate more solid wood into the cabinet options again, and our gears have been churning over some ways we can do this.
Stay tuned as we'll post when these Nagas are ready to go.
-
Molly,
Yes, we're really sorry you couldn't visit too, but next time for sure.
Yes, somebody should definitely pick this last pair up when they're ready -- a fantastic speaker and to my mind's eye, just one of the most attractive speakers I've ever encountered. Now I have to work on getting the sapele bases oiled and finished nicely and then when the Orcas arrive I can move these into the listening room.
Thanks also for all your hard work on my new Orcas as well!
Take care,
Jim
-
I just got the opportunity to hear the Orcas. They are amazing!
bainjs and his lovely wife drove 3 hours here for a visit and to let me audition them. After a nice lunch we put the Orcas in the same spot as my Triangle Zerius speakers have been for 7 years and started listening.
So now, I can say I want a pair of these. I'll have to sell something and order them.
Back to the sound, or beginning the sound, they are clean, clear, with amazing images, deeper soundstage than my Triangles (and they are really good at soundstage), impressive high frequencies, but a little light in the bass for Taiko drums without a sub. Just about any speaker at a reasonable price is light in the bass for Taiko drums without a sub.
Joel said that they only have about 100 hours on them. Unless they are going to extend down to 25 Hz with more break in I don't know what else they can do.
I was hearing good high frequency response with Bluegrass, so just to be sure, we put on Kind Of Blue (KOB). The cymbals were amazing! They had sizzle! The piano, saxophone, and of course trumpet sounded very real. I'm really amazed at the highs. The cymbals were as they should be. I admit to expecting the highs to be a little recessed. After all, my hearing in the highs is a little recessed. This was not at all the case.
On KOB the images were solid; the best I have ever heard the piano on this album. Walking back and fourth behind the listening chair I could see that the center image only moves about a foot off center in my room at the extreme right and left. What I mean is that to get it to do that I stood a foot or more to the right of the right speaker, etc. There is a really wide sweet spot. More than I have experienced before.
I could go on, and on, but it would just be repetitive. Clark, you have really done something magic here.
A big thanks to both Bains for this opportunity.
-
Hey Grainger,
Yup, don't listen to them unless you're prepared to buy a set :-). I don't know how much more the bass will fill in as much as become even better integrated into the whole, after the 400 hour mark, and then everything smoothes out and becomes more coherent from top to bottom, and I bet you'll even notice the highs being even cleaner at that point too.
Does Joel have the sub with the paper or aluminum cone? That as welll as the stands can also make a nice difference in bass impact and dynamics, so Clark tells me.
I'll find out soon enough -- my whole new set, Orcas, stands and sub will all arrive here next week sometime.
Did you use your paramours or did Joel bring his s.e.x. amp? I think that's what he uses at home but I could be remembering that wrong.
They truly are totally decieving in terms of what comes out of them vs their dimunitive appearance.
These and the Nagas are the speakers that finally made me decide to stick with flea power SET amps.
Glad you finally got a chance to hear them, and how great of Joel and his wife to make the trip.
-- Jim
-
Jim
Joel and I both have a non-Blumenstein sub. I didn't try to dial mine into the Orcas as it was pretty well set up for my speakers. I didn't want to get it all out of adjustment. Every time I played it, it mucked up the Orcas' midrange. So I didn't keep it on. It is crossed over too high for the Orca. (Edit: it was too loud for the Orcas) Maybe for mine as well. I'll have to see. It could be filling a hole in my speakers response.
Joel didn't bring his SEX amp. We used my Paramours with 76 drivers, MQ iron and all upgraded caps. We played then on Joel's stands that are a few inches short of the Orca stands, but close enough for me. They were screwed and glued together. A nice tight fit.
They just disappeared. Sounds didn't come from the speakers but behind and all around them. A top notch speaker disappearing act. I will be rummaging through my stuff to see what might garner me the price of admission from an auction.
I look forward to your impressions of the Full Meal Orca Deal. That is a reference to the deal on an everything FP 2.
Tomorrow I will put my speakers back on and see if I can listen to them after the Orcas. Maybe not.
-
I'm glad they passed the test! KOB?
-
Oops, edited.
-
Grainger,
I think you really have to look at the Orca sub compared to typical subs the same way you do the Orcas to other standmount monitors -- it's practially a crime to call them a sub -- they don't boom, they have real tone, and more importantly, tone that seamlessly integrates with the Orcas (or Nagas in my current case), plus they match in terms of dynamics, and Clark tells me that all of this will improve noticeably when I replace my aluminum cone drivers with the paper cone ones. Of course the new one will have the paper cone *sub*.
And yes, one will surely let you feel those Taiko drums, and 2 would probably let your neighbors feel it too :-).
My feeling is that the Orcas are quite usable on their own to approximately 50 hz, which is about all you get from most LPs anyway. On the other hand, there's no doubt that the Orca sub adds some weight and dynamic punch as well as some more extension on the bottom.
Man, I am just itching to get this system going! :-)
When Clark first walked into my listening room his first words were, "Oh, this is an Orca room for sure." Aside from that I'm getting used to the Nagas in the media room, though some more placement adjustments will surely help, as will the stereomour.
-- Jim
-
Jim,
My first sub was with the Servo-Statik I. It didn't have much boom. Since that sub is dead I'm using a Boston Acoustics sub I bought years ago. The BA has served in both my stereo and AV systems. It is more versatile than the Infinity sub ever was with crossover, level and phase adjustments.
I have a great appreciation for a sub having the same speed as the rest of the system. The Infinity sub never got there. Right now, the Orca's sub isn't economically feasible. At the moment neither are the Orcas.
-
Grainger,
Understood -- econommics being what it is for each individual, my only real point is that the Orca sub is the perfect pairing for a complete, full range system with seamless integration from the bottom up. And also being the size and weight it is (does not need a forklift to move like so many subs, you can get perfect phasing and best room response simply by moving it around, which I vastly prefer to the so-called variable phase controls.
The bottom line on all this is that if you can afford it, the complete system is well worth pursuing, even if it takes a while and a lot of scraping and saving to get there.
-- Jim
-
Dudes,
I agree with Jim. 130 hours break in on Orcas, Stands, and Subs. This stuff sounds really good. I took my BH Gear to a High End Dealer in S Fla and spent 8 hours with some famous speakers and this stuff sounds every bit as good and it's not broken in yet. The best buy I have made so far in my Audio journey. The Orca gear was a retirement gift to myself.
Pat
Forgot to mention that the Orca gear only cost 1/3 as much!
-
I understand. The Eros was my retirement gift to myself a year ago. That is when I started drawing some retirement funds.
-
I understand. The Eros was my retirement gift to myself a year ago. That is when I started drawing some retirement funds.
So, Granger, its been a year. How's retirement treating you? I'm actually in between jobs at the present. I think when I retire, I'm going to need a string of heavy duty projects to keep from going insane! I know, I may already be there, but I'm talking straight jacket stuff!
-
Big thanks to Joel for auditioning his Orcas. (If you ever want to get anything else from us in the future, Joel, just let us know and we will sweeten the deal for you ;) ). Thanks, also, to everyone else on here for the awesome feedback. Clark and I are feeling the love!
-
Molly,
I'd be interested in your sweet deal on a subwoofer, however, it would be a bit before I could buy one. I gotta pay for a knee replacement for my wife first!
Send me a PM when you have time.
Joel
-
Hey, I hope your wife's experience with replacement is as successful as mine. First one @ 54, second @ 60, now 74 and able to walk six miles even on uneven surfaces(right now, beaches and cliffs on the south coast of Crete). My surgeon, Craig Mohler of the Slocum Orthopedic Clinic in Eugene, said that I had the fastest recovery on the last one he had ever seen____ 1 mile without aids just ten days post-surgery!
Suggest that she tune up her immune system by de-toxing(sugar, red meat, caffeine, nicotine, and alcohol), and imagine on the gurney before lights out that she will wake up on the left bank in Paris! Worked for me, both times.
Cheers and good Luck, Hank in Eugene(actually south coast of Crete for another week)
-
by de-toxing(sugar, red meat, caffeine, nicotine, and alcohol)
I've tried all of those in combination but they don't seem to detoxify me.
-
ditdah, sir, as far as classical music: just about any mozart or debussy. don
-
Suggest that she tune up her immune system by de-toxing(sugar, red meat, caffeine, nicotine, and alcohol), and imagine on the gurney before lights out that she will wake up on the left bank in Paris! Worked for me, both times.
Cheers and good Luck, Hank in Eugene(actually south coast of Crete for another week)
I cut the carbs. Well, except for the alcohol... I do feel much better. Lost 10 lbs. I'm not interested in the 'gurney' and all that other crap. I'm allergic to Dr's and hospitals!
-
All my best to your wife, Joel! I hope she has a swift recovery. Running the shop a bit more I too have had to really focus on my health, what I eat and how much I excersize especially as it is a really physically demanding job. Luckily, music therapy is part of my routine at the end of each day :)
-
Sounds like my 20s. Music all day selling stereos and my music in the evening to relax. It was a daily routine.
-
I had this thought last night. So, getting back to Clark & Molly's speakers...
Many people have asked me how my system floats images so well. I often say that it, "gets out of the way of the music." I describe it that way because there are so very few passive and active devices in the signal path. I add that each of these active and passive parts impart less of a coloration or phase shift onto the music that is fed into the system.
The Blumensteins do just that. I believe their speakers get out of the way of the music and allow you to hear what was comes into the system to start with. I became aware of the mess a crossover can make of music sometime in the 70s. The Orcas having no crossover the phase relationships of the incoming signal are not affected at all. I'm of the opinion that soundstage has a lot to do with phase relationships between the two speakers and the music being played. Phase is time, which is position to our ears and brain.
-
Joel sent me Clark's email about price increases. I got my lovely wife to understand, I ordered a pair of Caramelized Orcas.
My head will explode with anticipation.
-
Good move, young man! :-)
-- Jim
-
Nothin like a new piece of kit to pick up your spirits!
-
Add me to those who just ordered a pair or Orcas - mine in plain bamboo. This will be interesting.
-
Wow thanks a ton Grainger and Glynn! Y'all are first in line for them once we've got our current backlog out in 3-4 weeks. Y'all are going to really enjoy these!
Re: Pat M., I missed your post earlier and just now saw it. It warms my heart so much to hear how much you are enjoying your complete system! What a helluva retirement gift to yourself! Rock on, man!
To all:
here's a link to our website's post about the coming price increase.
http://www.blumensteinaudio.com/news/2012/11/5/notification-of-price-increase-january-1-2013.html
As we mentioned in the blog post, Molly and I were really wracking our brains over the increase, as to us it is definitely unwelcome in terms of maintaining our business/ethics model. In the modern day, business and ethics are rarely terms used together in the same sentence to mean a good thing, but in our case it is indeed for the sake of the good kind of ethics that we do what we do.
With the Orca line (including the stands and subs), we are trying to distill prettymuch everything learned at Feastrex and Cain & Cain (and on our own) but to make it into as hollistically ass kicking as possible. Miniscule in terms of price and physical size per the punch, just the right amount of customizability, acoustic adjustability and room tailoring, and convenience. And then we discovered the unexpected added benefits of this entire approach in the final sound quality.
During this last year in the journey especially, I believe that we are onto some truly new technologies in terms of what is possible for the size, and price and blah blah blah... and then woah! We just weren't charging quite enough in order to grow the business gracefully and practically. And so it is in this way that many makers are reminded that they are actually businesses. Business plans get ammended, and then life goes on.
While we know that the new prices will still be more than competitive in the marketplace and will still afford us the ability to keep production here in the states in the coming years, our true mission, what is really behind the persistently low prices is that we simply wish (and still wish) to connect alot of people with honest to goodness great speaker designs and it is all too often that price of admission which is the barrier for alot of people into the realm of phenomenal sound quality. I am just not interested in merely "good" sound quality and neither should anyone else be. Its been almost a hundred years since the direct radiator was invented. Isn't it about time that there were truly phenomenal sound systems out there for ~$1500? (speaking of the Orcas and SEX here).
Certain business saavy friends and audiophiles have asked us over the last several years: "Don't they sound good enough already!?! They're only $600 bucks! Can anyone really hear the difference!?!" And these questions have sometimes gotten me to really quiz myself if we were really cut out to be in manufacturing, in possession of the all mighty ability to coldly consider our hand made goods and hard fought design innovations to be "widgets," to be bought and sold in mind numbing quantities on the free market, or were we to consider ourselves to be members of the art world, always trying to push the envelope and be "different," for the sake of amusement to the few people who will invariably cross paths with a small, albiet beautiful body of our life's work.
The truth is that we are a little bit of both, and while its not the textbook definition of a business, we don't see anything wrong with that. We've so much energy in our daily work to see where this mindset takes us in the long term. Where its gotten us so far is that we have a pretty respectable number of pleased customers, and we are still definitely counting alot of die hard "ultra fi" audiophiles as our friends and customers as well, even for a "lowly" $600 pair of speakers.
So in conclusion, thanks to everyone over all these past years for joining our community, making it even better!
Cheers,
Clark
-
My Orcas, stands and sub all arrived today and I just got done assembling them, so this is the first of the new design, and the stands that I'm *seeing* and feeling and you guys are in for a real treat. Still need a preamp to get the sr-45s to play through them, but I may just temporarily connect my LM Mini 218 SE el84 amp (which is now temporarily driving the Nagas) up to these guys and give them a first listen in the new room. That won't come until tomorrow at the earliest though.
These, if it was possible, seem even better in terms of finish than the last pair I got (now in our living room). Can't wait to hear them, but I also know it's still going to be a couple of weeks before the majority of my system is all together and playing smoothly.
And for those who were following, I worked out in my garage shop today and got things organized and the remainder of boxes from our move unpacked. And as Murphy would have predicted, all my soldering gear was in the very last box to be unpacked from the entire move... natch. :-)
I'm exhausted, so off to bed but I do hope to chime in with some initial sonic impressions tomorrow sometime.
-- Jim
-
Clark,
Good news for Glynn and me!
But I'm posting primarily to congratulate you on the proper use of "Y'all" in both instances. Are you a well spoken Southern boy, like a number of us? Or did we infect your use of English?
I think the response of the Bottlehead community, diverse as it is, should answer any questions that you have about whether or not you should be manufacturing musical instruments. We don't want to see you going down the path of Saul Marantz.
I hope you don't lose the cottage industry aspect that you have even if you have a troop of helpers working with you.
-
I have carmelized Orcas, and the cabinetry is just beautiful. People really like to touch them -- they are that nice.
-
I am of the opinion that fine wood finishes should be touched. My best friend my senior year was our foreign exchange student, Rolf. Rolf stayed with the Moulthrops. Mr. Moulthroup is known for large wooden bowls (Google Phillip Moulthrop). He says his works are as tactile as visual.
-
Grainger,
Haha! Yeah, I am a Seattle native, but partly grew up in Jacksonville, FL. Molly too, partly grew up in the south. I've got a ton of family all over tennessee, Florida and NC and also up here. Been back in the PNW since Whitman College days. So I've only got an accent that comes on if I've been drinking. Y'all is one of many useful Southern inventions. Otherwise the English language does not have a distinct second person plural.
Re: touching woodwork is so important. Hanging out with Jim Rebman and looking at one of his bottlehead bases a month ago showed that with woodwork, there are so many qualities to be appreciated from a primarily tactile standpoint that are the same exact qualities that can be appreciated from a visual standpoint. Spalting, quilting, grain density, you name it. Especially if you don't hide the features under a really thick finish.
Yeah, I totally hear you on the growth of the business. We are going to keep really focusing on our production (and therefore sound) quality. In regards to employees, we are hoping to attract folks who are even more physically/mentally capable than we are into the future.
Its so easy to keep making musical instrument speakers when we have such fine bottlehead musical instrument amplifiers to pair them with!
We've been jamming so hard in the shop these past weeks, weekends, and into this week non stop 14+ hour days. Barely winded. Super excited about everyone who's going to be getting their speakers soon!
-Clark
-
Y'all is one of many useful Southern inventions. Otherwise the English language does not have a distinct second person plural.
-Clark
Plural, wouldn't that be all y'all?
-
Plural, wouldn't that be all y'all?
Plural, wouldn't that be all y'all?
[/quote]
Hmm... I'll have to defer to Molly on this one.
-
Just took the plunge (thanks to this thread - theres too many people whose ears have similar tastes as mine that like these speakers not to give them a chance) and scored a pair of lightly used orcas in natural bamboo. Looking forward to them! I think i remember seeing them at vsac 2008 in their iteration at that time. I didnt pay much attention to them because of the small size and driver but the one thing i discovered at vsac was how much i liked the zigmahornets despite thier small driver. (I bought those drivers but couldn't find an easy way to build the cabinets as my woodwork skills are not good and ended up with a used pair of abbys - the drivers are currently for sale) So it will be fun to compare it to my 8" fostex bookshelf speakers too...
-
Terran,
I've had and heard the zigmahornets, and I liked them too, but the Orcas are far more refined sound with probably a good bit more bass than the ziggies, but also at least as good in the imaging/soundstaging aspects as well.
I'm pretty confident you'll really like them.
-- Jim
-
On the "all y'all" usage, this, from the Wiktionary, seems to square with what I've heard and observed over the years as a transplanted southerner:
All y'all is used in the Southern United States when a speaker wishes to include everyone being addressed. Y'all may refer to an indefinite set of members of a group, but all y'all definitively includes everyone in the group.
I recently attended a conference where the speaker, a PNW native who had recently relocated to the South, was recounting what he'd learned as a newcomer to Atlanta.
He said he was feeling especially welcomed, since everyone seemed to be so nice. Remarking to his wife, a native Southerner, he mentioned that when he had a question, say, at the supermarket, people would often start out with some kind of sympathetic words, such as "Well, bless your heart..." which he found warm and welcoming - at least until she pointed out that translated loosely to "Hey, Dumba$$," or "OMG, what a moron"
-
I'm really interested in getting the Orcas to pair with my upcoming SEX build.
Don't get me wrong but it seems like Clark comes up with a "new and improved" version every year.
I believe in designing something ang getting it right the first time.
-
So, you built your stereomour perfectly, just as you wanted it to sound, right from the beginning?
Speaker design, especially when so deceptively simple a design as the Orca, is a process and *nobody* gets it right the first time. You learn, you listen, you ask for and get feedback, you experiment, and when something offers a consistent improvement, even if ncremental, you incorporate it. Guarantee if you buy the Orcas and stands that Clark is making right now you'll be more than happy. Just like all those who bought older versions and still think they're great.
I for one very much appreciate people that strive for that last ounce of perfection -- IMO way too many audio companies call it good enough before it is truly optimized, and then many owners will tweak from there.
These are artisan pieces, made with care and constantly striving for best quality, not injection-molded plastic assembly line pieces.
-- Jim
-
Thanks Jim.
My Stereomour already sounded perfectly from the start. I only lowered the B+ voltage so those used 45's I got from ebay will last longer.
I presume you just got '13 model. What is the difference compared to the '12 model? I have until the end of December to decide.
-
Jimi,
Apologies if I seemed snarky -- that was not my intent. I'm just grumpy today after pinching my sciatic nerve this morning.
I was just trying to make the point that these are fine speakers, even the much older design caramelized Orcas I have, and the ones long before that as well. You just havve to remember that these have all sold mostly by word of mouth, so even the old birch ply ones were apparently impressive enough to get people to keep buying them.
Honestly, right now I don't see how they can get any better, but that doesn't mean that I'm not going to experiment with some different mountings and speaker cabling, and if I find something interesting, I'll surely tell Clark about it. That doesn't mean it will make it into production as he always builds and tests new things himself and does a lot of critical listening before incorporating the changes. However, they also have to be reasonable to produce, resonable in cost, etc. -- much like many of us will tweak capacitors and such, and roll tubes until we find just what we like from our BH amps, though rarely do those kind of changes get incorporated.
Also, with the Orcas being pretty much built on demand, it's much easier to incorporate minor changes without scrapping a whole production run.
Clark has really good ears and makes sure any changes don't compromise any of the existing sound, only enhance it, if even a little bit, and considering how many of these he's built in the last 6+ years, It is really hard to imagine any real earth-shattering changes at this point.
Anyway you slice it, this is a great speaker and far more than it's size and scale would everhint at. And they're just absolutely beautiful to look at and touch. I of course can't see them, but I can get a very good picture in my mind's eye of how they must look and I just happen to think the Orcas and the Nagas are some of the most beautifully proportioned, reasonable sized speakers I've ever experienced, and I never fail to get lots of "Wow! What are those?!" comments when friends see them.
S.e.x. 2.1, Orcas and a decent source and you have a system that would be nearly impossible to top for the money.
-- Jim
-
No problem Jim.
Thank you for sharing your experience with the Orcas.
I'm more inclined to buy a pair now. The SEX kit is still in transit but it should be operational by the end of the month.
Good luck on your SEX build!
-
Well, I set up my pottery in the Glen Richards/Honeychurch gallery for their Mingei Show, and waited until the thousand or so folks showed up between 4 and 8pm Saturday for the opening. Afterwards, stimulated but exhausted, I spent the night with Paul and Ashley Birkeland at their lovely new home south of Lake Washington. Sunday morning after breakfast Paul and I drove over to Clark & Molly Blumensteins' home to audition the latest version of the Orca+Subs on their BH gear, mostly listening to Vinyl. Hey Jimiclow, don't fear to buy this season before the needed and modest price increase goes into place. I have been listening to my Blumensteins now for more than eight months and they are the Bomb! They just get better each passing month____ and Clark can make most of his upgrades available to you at very nominal cost as they are evaluated and approved by Clark & Molly's ears. Then we piled into Paul's pretty Hyundai to visit the Growers' market in West Seattle, and motored over to Phinney Ridge to share a fine Thai meal at the Royal Palm there.
Satisfied, we went to nearby Hawthorne Audio to look at turntables, and Paul found that the one he was thinking about had not been purchased by anyone, and I found a 'mint' VPI table that Matthew was willing to sell to me sans cartridge and Arm, as Paul offered to give me his Rega 301 arm, and Andy of Cartridge repair in Issaquah had rebuilt my BPS EVO lll while I was in Turkey and Crete this Fall. So now I have a superb table to go with the BH Customs Eros phono-stage that Paul built for me a year ago. I have a large(1200) collection of mint vinyl going back to 1960, that I have not been able to listen to for 20+ years, so I am especially excited to re-visit these treasures played through a complete Bottlehead/Blumenstein system___ my 'final music system'(sure!), so long-deferred. Clark & Molly, Paul Birkeland, Paul Joppa, & Dan & Eileen have created something very special and apart from the mainstream audio world, and have made it available to all of us at modest cost. Bravo All!
Cheers! Hank Murrow
-
Hank,
Did you notice any difference between what you have in your home and what Molly & Clark are running at their home/showroom? That is, is there any build/spec difference between what you have and what is currently being offered?
Just wondering
Stephen
-
Dear Wormwood; No, I did not hear any differences that were integral to the system. The differences I heard were largely ascribed to differences in our respective rooms. Of course, my cat Shino does not run across the turntable when vinyl is running! Just kidding, Clark. Shino knocked over one of the Orcas just minutes ago, so I will be thinking about the bases for them soon. BTW, my amps produce about 3.5 watts, and I can use about 1/2 of the 28 steps of the TVC attenuators before ear protection becomes necessary. I love them.
Cheers, Hank
-
Spent the night evaluating speakers. Started out just playing and enjoying the orcas then added the hawthorne open baffle subs in and that really filled it out. My friend was here who has listened to the abbys a lot and was doing stuff and the music was playing. i asked him what he thought and he didnt even realize the abbys werent the source. He had a hard time believing it was coming from the orcas!
Anyways i added a pair of omega ts1 speakers (8" fostex based dual ported) and my own 8" fostex modded in a parts express box with a passive radiator (the holy grail design from fullrangedriver.com). the omegas have the strongest bass and the most forceful presentation. The orcas are the more laid back presentation and expansive soundstage of the 3 pairs. I listened to a bunch of types of music with the sub on and off. The sub is set to blend with the abbys and i didnt really get it to blend well with the orcas. I think i need to hear the orcas mated with their subs. I actually enjoyed all 3 sets of speakers. The omegas i will sell and didnt seem to come out in The comparisons that well because they are so forward in their presentation but i would lose myself in the music with them more than the others. They had the strongest bass but not as toneful as the holy grail. But when i plugged the abbys back in it made me appreciate them more too.
The orcas are beautiful and well made and do remind me of a musical instrument. They have a more delicate sound quality to them like a nickel transformer does. I look forward to hearing them with the subs if the finances permit!
Picture of the test kitchen:
-
Thanks a bunch for the review, Taran!
I'm really honored that they situate themselves in good posture among your other rather tall and burly speaker designs (they are assuredly the Napoleon of the bunch!)
The Abby's, I am especially encouraged in the sound comparison because I hold them in pretty high regard, having had them in my life since 2003 or so when I first met Terry - and promptly picked up a pair of Cain and Cain's shortly thereafter! You might say that the Abby's, and then the SEX amp I eventually built for them are what got me hooked on Single Driver/Single Ended Triode speaker/amp configs as opposed to being a "solid state into headphones" audiophile as I was previously to meeting Terry.
I'll mention this in part to answer everyone's questions regarding the evolution of the Orca's sound quality: the serial numbers of the used pair you picked up put them as having been produced around 10 months ago. They should be pretty well broken in at this point if the original owner gave them much play. But if they didn't get much play (which would be very unfortunate!), then you can expect them to open up even a bit more over the next few days/weeks/months.
As you might imagine, with a speaker this small, we are really pushing the envelope in order to keep up with the massive scale of the other competing speaker options out there (literally, in a sense - every other good sounding single driver design out there just dwarfs the Orcas in physical size - Even the Feastrex designs that I am playing with).
But I'd offer the notion that it is because we've been pushing the envelope all along and will continue to do so that every Orca owner has something special - and is part of a unique journey towards genuine discovery - into how good these speakers can possibly sound?
We consistently ask ourselves this question and so the Orcas are consistently good.
Cheers,
Clark
-
Hi All, Happy thanksgiving! Molly and I are thankful for, well, each other(!)
...and we are also so very thankful to the truly wonderful and supportive community of friends we've met through this forum, actually. Getting a little more active in the audio scene this past year myself, and introducing Molly to it as well, has really enriched both the music listening aspect, and just general life enjoyment as well. So many good times!
As a quick update, I realized this morning that I might have been a little vague in my last post about our product development plans/methods.
Firstly, I have to make this clear - There is no "new" version of the Orcas or Orca subs coming out any time soon. As many are suspecting, the Orcas and Orca subs are at a point now where things have profoundly slowed down in the realm of getting them to sound any better (which is a good thing, because they are at a really good place right now and have been for some time.)
It's like when an athlete plateaus. It might take years for another "leap" to come to the design, because there are just not a whole lot more incremental improvements to make. That's not to say that we don't have our eyes or ears open to any possible ways to improve, It's just that now we are shifting our focus to consistently and quickly deliver the level of performance that has come to be expected.
We do, however, have a few really exciting add-ons coming to the product range - a center channel in the wings, terminated speaker wires that we just released, a new/cool way for the Orcas/Orca subs to be mated together as floorstanders, a small tweak to the Orca stands.
Currently, I'm working on updating our own home stereo system from the ground up, actually. All new sources -digital and analogue, and some new amps...and even a huge new audio rack to put everything on. SUPER EXCITED!
But still...Are there any NEW fullrange designs coming out?
Often we get asked (by people who have yet to hear the Orca) if we make anything "slightly" bigger than the Orca. The answer is that yes we would definitely be making a slightly bigger speaker if we weren't getting this good of sound from such a small one.
So instead, we are looking to make a speaker that is much bigger. Feastrex drivers that are substantially more expensive than the Orcas, yet they do actually get louder without distorting - and especially importantly and a little bit more intangibly - without compromising the agility or beauty in the way the music is reproduced.
The extra volume capability of the Feastrexes certainly costs, and anyone who is familiar with the ultra high end scene knows that the prices and sizes of speakers in this realm can get really out of whack. And so, In our design efforts with Feastrex, I hope to make a Feastrex design that will become the "Orca" of the high end scene in a sense. Something that is reasonably sized, reasonably priced, unreasonably good.
Ok, well I hope everyone enjoys their families and friends this holiday, and into the next!
Cheers!
-Clark
-
Dear Wormwood; No, I did not hear any differences that were integral to the system. The differences I heard were largely ascribed to differences in our respective rooms. Of course, my cat Shino does not run across the turntable when vinyl is running! Just kidding, Clark. Shino knocked over one of the Orcas just minutes ago, so I will be thinking about the bases for them soon. BTW, my amps produce about 3.5 watts, and I can use about 1/2 of the 28 steps of the TVC attenuators before ear protection becomes necessary. I love them.
Cheers, Hank
Hank, I just noticed something from the photo you posted. It looks like your sub cones both face the same way. Is there a reason for that?
-
Yes Wormwood; Clark got confused in the harried run-up to delivering my Orcas and Subs, packing two identical subs instead of a mirrored pair. In January, I will return to Seattle to let Clark remove my wonderfully broken-in drivers and install them in new cabinets which will be mirror-imaged, and I will return to Eugene with the 'new' pair. He and Molly are fastidious in their customer service, and so they pair beautifully with Bottlehead and Eileen's devotion to the same ethic.
The curious thing is that when brought out around 35" into the room they sound just fine, but having them as designed will make them easier to place.
Cheers, Hank
-
I have some Orcas on the way, and will have my extra sexy S.E.X. 2.1 completed soon. I do have a question regarding the impedance switches which my amp will have installed. Would my Orcas be able to take advantage of the Balanced output capabilities when I flip that switch? What setting would be most appropriate for use with these speakers?
Thanks, and I'm very much looking forward to getting some listening time done!
-
Dogz,
The setting should be 8 ohms and as for the balanced mode switch, it won't hurt, but not sure how much difference you will hear as it apparently is most audible in the lower bass. Only thing to do is try and report back :-).
-- Jim
-
Right on, Jim. Thanks!
Dogz,
My Sex 2.1 amp's only modification is that I took out the headphone jack and soldered short lengths of BJC Ten White straight from the trannies to the banana posts. Is this similar to a balanced mode? I am not sure, but it did seem just a little bassier. I am also using a quickie pre amp to really good effect. (I didn't mod anything on the SEX amp's volume POT - just twist it to the "max" position). This is such an unbelievably killer system for nearfield/small rooms/low to medium volumes with the Orcas. So much musical honesty for so little money.
We've now got our own Natural bamboo Orcas on stands and double subs in the living room demo system. The double subs are just begging us to give the entire system a little more oomph and upper volume levels with loud rock and roll so the recent arrival of our new Stereomour kit is well timed. We'll probably get started on it once the holidaze are over. We are so excited!
Hank - can't wait to have you out again in Jan. It'll be fun to go tour around town a bit as well. Hopefully the Nakashima exhibit at the Wing Luke museum is still open as well. Molly and I took Paul and Ashley out there this Sunday after visiting the gallery with your pottery (which was great!). Nakashima's work had a tremendous and unexpected effect on me - very deep down. Even though I've read about him a bit and admired his work and philosophy for years now, its probably going to take me years to fully process the inspiration I got from his work that day. Looking for every excuse to go back before the exhibit moves on. I mention this visit on the forum because I can only hope to synthesize some of Nakashima's inspiration - and the inspiration in your pottery into our upcoming Feastrex project.
Molly's got everyone who's currently on order on the weekly shop update emails, but if anyone has missed any of the emails, production is marching along very well. Almost right on target, time wise. This is much more smoothly than in months previous - even though we are dealing with alot higher volume of sales than we have ever had before. Still yet, we will be shipping out a vast majority of our orders in the coming week and into the following. This represents a huge improvement to our shop's systems in terms of order flow all the while keeping production quality very high.
On a separate note,
REMEMBER THE PRICE INCREASE IS COMING JAN 1ST!!!
Best,
Clark
-
Hi Clark,
Will the price increase affect only the Orcas, or will the price of the subs go up as well?
Thanks,
Falko
-
Clark,
I had no idea you were a fan of Nakashima (but then again, I suppose I should have known). His shop and gallery were in New Hope, PA, only about a 30 minute drive from where I grew up and lived a good part of my life. Absolutely amazing woodworking! Never could afford any of it though :-).
BTW, tried some quick experiments and I will be setting up the Nagas in the listening room after all (moving the rack off to the side of the couch) and the Orcas and sub will still be with the stereomour in the media room (where we did all the listening when you were here.)
-- Jim
-
Hi Clark,
Will the price increase affect only the Orcas, or will the price of the subs go up as well?
Thanks,
Falko
Falko, Yes, the price increase is across the board. Approximately 25% to 33% increase overall (except desktop stands, which will be getting a little cheaper to encourage sales). Considering that this is the biggest price increase we've ever implimented, and with the longest notice we've ever given, we are really hoping to be able to give everyone who's been following us a chance to hop on board.
-Clark
P.S. Thank you for your order!!!
-
Clark,
I sent you an email. Did it go through?
Regards,
Aaron
-
Oh-yes. I was running around like a chicken with my head cut off yesterday, I'll get back to you re: Feastrex tonight here, along with a few other folks needing sub setup advice. I'm having to answer emails during one sitting every day or two as we've been running the woodshop full steam this week. Thanks for bearing with us!
-
Hi All:
I'm sure the Orcas rock but I just want to mention that the bamboo bases for BH components do too! I received my pair for Paramounts about two weeks ago and I'm very happy I pulled the trigger. Attached below are "before" and "after" photos plus a close-up.
Good job Clark & Molly!
Gerry
-
Thanks for the shout out, Gerry! Really glad to hear you are enjoying them! Those are SUCH AWESOME PARAMOUNTS you built! The silk screening is so cool. What kind of OB speakers are those?
I love building the Bottlehead bases. They really dress things up. We built and entire set of them for all our demo amps - will have photos up really soon. I like the tall profile as well, which makes ample space for upgrade caps and as a thermal mass of air for cooling. Soon we'll be selling clear acrylic plates with holes in them as an add on. Not sure on the price yet, but of course - its not gonna break the piggy bank. The shipping on those alone should be really cheap to those who already own the bases.
Cheers!
-Clark
-
I had the top plate of my S.E.X. amp anodized black and bead blasted to a smooth finish. I think that plus my caramelized bamboo Orcas + Base will look very slick. I also had a Apls Blue Velvet and black aluminum knob added to finish it off!
-
Hey Clark & Molly___ I just got my 'new' VPI turntable back with the Blue Point Special EVO lll cartridge dialed in, and I am listening to the Reference Recordings pressing of Eileen Farrell "Sings Torch Songs" through my Bottlehead Customs 'final music system' with custom Eros phonostage. Your Orca+BUF Subs have never been asked to convey so much, nor have they failed in even a tiny way. I am enthralled, and only into this disc halfway through the first side. "Round Midnight" is just starting, and I had to post this to tell everyone they owe your speakers a listen____ even if one can't come up with the scratch, they seem like a 'reference experience' while working toward a pair. I played the Telarc pressing of the Holst Wind Band Suites, and let me say that the subs come very close to the tactile experience I enjoyed with my big 10" transmission-line subs when those tympani thwacks jumped out of them. Set the hanging prints to vibrating on the walls. This vinyl setup is dead quiet, and reveals the limitations of those little discs I've been listening to. So much air around everything, and truth being told. You two have to come down and hear this sometime when you get caught up on orders. 1200 mint records to fall in love with all over again____thanks so much to both of the Blumensteins!
Cheers, Hank
-
Aw, thanks so much for this Hank! We'll definitely take you up on your offer to dig through that vinyl collection sometime. I too have recently fallen even more in love with the Orcas now that we have a pair of Orca Subs going in our living room setup with a Stereomour (on loan from PB until we get a chance to build our own). The S.E.X. is great down in the desktop/office setup in the shop, but the extra power from the Stereomour into our living room setup reveals new parts and experiences in albums that I thought I knew. Swoon!
I'm also wanting to point out to all on the thread that we got a chance to sit down and update the information on our website about the subwoofer and sub amp. New photos of the sub amp and diagrams on how to set everything up are on there now. Here's a link: http://www.blumensteinaudio.com/orca-subwoofer-amplifier/ (http://www.blumensteinaudio.com/orca-subwoofer-amplifier/)
There is a new subwoofer amp on offer, which is a 250 watt plate amp. The big reason we added this is because it allows for international voltage. Both models are getting added sets of binding posts now too, which--while they don't effect the sound in any way--are just meant to help with hookup/ease of use. If anyone is interested in having their sub amps retrofitted, just send me an email.
Molly
-
Thanks for the shout out, Gerry! Really glad to hear you are enjoying them! Those are SUCH AWESOME PARAMOUNTS you built! The silk screening is so cool. What kind of OB speakers are those?
I love building the Bottlehead bases. They really dress things up. We built and entire set of them for all our demo amps - will have photos up really soon. I like the tall profile as well, which makes ample space for upgrade caps and as a thermal mass of air for cooling. Soon we'll be selling clear acrylic plates with holes in them as an add on. Not sure on the price yet, but of course - its not gonna break the piggy bank. The shipping on those alone should be really cheap to those who already own the bases.
Cheers!
-Clark
I wish I could take credit Clark but I purchased my Paramounts already built. The silk screening is cool but since I had the V1.1 upgrade installed, the 12AT7 designation is no longer correct (that's an early WE 396A in there). I'm glad you mentioned the "tall profile" of your bases because that's one of my favorite attributes of them too (besides the overall look). Will the acrylic plates be replacements for the back panel or a bottom plate? The reason I ask is that since I have them sitting on a flat surface the underside is completely enclosed. I'm thinking of adding rubber feet for air-flow.
My speakers are JE Labs style OBs with added 12" bases (the latter was my idea). Drivers are vintage Jensen RP-302 tweeters and Altec 756B bass/mid-range drivers. IMO the 10" 756B is 10 times better than the much more famous Altec/WE 755A (I had both at the same time on identical baffles) but that's another story. The 756Bs run full-range and there's a single cap on the tweeters. See the attached photo below - it's taken from behind the speakers.
BTW, Do you do custom work? I'm thinking of getting my LDR-based passive preamp, the black box sitting on top of my CD player, encased in the same bamboo wood as the bases.
Gerry
P.S.
-
I had the top plate of my S.E.X. amp anodized black and bead blasted to a smooth finish. I think that plus my caramelized bamboo Orcas + Base will look very slick. I also had a Apls Blue Velvet and black aluminum knob added to finish it off!
That sure looks great! Who did the work on it?
-
I had my buddy up in Seattle do most of the work on it since he has access to high grade tools and a profession anodization machine.
-
Greetings, all
I found this great thread/community through research on Blumenstein Orcas. With so few reviews online, this thread is about as good a resource as I could find on BUF products. Thanks to all of you who took the time to share your experiences. After admiring Clark's work for years, the glowing reviews here pushed me over the edge and I purchased a pair of BB Orcas with matching sub a few weeks ago. They should be shipping in the next couple of days, which may get them here by the 25th. Merry Christmas to me!
My existing amplification consists of an AES AE-3 preamp and Bedini 150/150 MkII. It is a fine combination for the old acoustic suspension speakers I've used in the past, but seems a bit much for the Orcas. I've long been interested in checking out SETs, and everyone here (including/especially Clark himself) speak so highly of the synergy between them and the Orcas, that I hope to find some Bottleheads in the DC area willing to let me have a listen. There is a Mid-Atlantic meetup thread in the General forum so I'll post up there. Hopefully one of those folks wants to hear a pair of Orcas on his/her system.
I'll keep you posted on my experiences, and let you know if/when I pull the trigger on a Stereomour kit.
Cheers
Mike
-
Did anyone who received their Orca's get a tracking number once they shipped? I'm hoping I can get one so I can plan for their arrival.
-
Tdogz, can you give/message me your name? Chances are we haven't shipped yours yet if you haven't received a tracking number, but I can give you an estimated ship date.
We received a lot more orders than we thought we would this season but luckily our shop has been able to handle it with only minor delays. We've changed our initial focus, which was to have everyone delivered before Christmas, to shipping before and after Christmas depending on when orders were placed. The good news is that we've shipped over 17 pairs out in the last week and we'll be shipping out even more this week. So...back to sanding!
-
Are these Orca's being signed by both you and Clark?
Stephen
-
Finally... got my new Orcas playing today! They sounded like sleeping speakers always sound, but after about 15 minutes of low to moderate play of some live music (Martin Sexton) they started waking up, filling out and sounding amazingly good for having so little time on them. Very transparent, decent dynamics and super evenly balanced and smooth. No sub yet -- I want to listen to these during the break-in process up to about 20 hours before I bring the sub in. The bass, as is to be expected at this point isn't exactly gut punching, but it seems to fill out, deepen, and increase in dynamic response with every CD played through it. I'm also not sure how much of this is the MyDac, but today I found the lost digital cable so was able to hook things up with the dac feeding the LM mini amp and the cdp being used only as a transport, and again, very impressive as a system.
My only issue is that the Orcas are too tall for this room and the seating we have, so they'll likely go back to the listening room as the seating is another 4 or 5 inches higher in there and everything should line up nicely in there. The Nagas seem to be happy no matter wher they are but that's also just a quick first impression.
I can definitely tell that when all this is dialed in and broken-in that these two systems are easily going to meet and exceed what I was hoping for -- and I'm a pretty picky customer when it comes to my audio.
I honestly can't even begin to imagine what these are going to sound like with something like the sr-45 amps.
Great going Clark and Molly! For those of you who are in the queue, you will be rewarded :-).
-- Jiim
-
I can testify to how busy Clark and Molly have been. I have been in and out of their shop (mostly invited) as we work jointly on a few special productions, and they have been cranking out Orcas at all waking hours for weeks. I hope they can take a day or two off for the holidays to catch their breaths!
-
Jim, exciting news to hear! Congrats on getting them setup and warming up. Yeah, I can't wait to hear what you think of the solid back version of the Orca. The pair you already have had was early 2012 that was some of the few ones we made with the terminal cups right? Dan's system still has the terminal cup versions at BHQ as well. He's getting his new solid back version soon here and it will be great to hear what you both think of the systems as they'll be breaking in at about the same time. Once broken in, their disappearing act should be pretty much spot on. BTW, we are getting your Bottlehead SEX and Seduction bases made over the next week as well and will have those out to you soon here. Also, those little chuncks of scrap wood you wanted finally got freed up. And if you ever decide that you'd like shorter stand columns we'd be happy to accomidate you.
I can testify to how busy Clark and Molly have been. I have been in and out of their shop (mostly invited) as we work jointly on a few special productions, and they have been cranking out Orcas at all waking hours for weeks. I hope they can take a day or two off for the holidays to catch their breaths!
Yeah Paul, we've worked for so many years learning how to become being productive and well trained craftspeople and so now's the time to put the pedal to the metal and really show everyone what we are capable of. Watch out! We even just picked up a second electric sander so that Molly and I can team sand and learn techniques from each other.
As well, with our recently discovered production chops we are shooting to shrink our lead time down to the point that by the end of this month Orca Fullrangers can ship in either finish in well under a month from the time that an order is placed.
I know - compared to the way so many companies work this is still a long wait time, but for us it is a herculean effort considering that we are unwilling to reduce the level of woodwork and finish quality. Its taken all my problem solving and sweat that I can muster these last several months to get so far caught up as we are now. But this is really cheerful effort. I want to make it alot easier for people to be able to purchase and enjoy them till the end of time.
Clark
-
Clark,
Yes, the other pair is the caramelized with the binding post cups. Those are going to be just fine where they are too.
Everybody who sees these just ooohs and aaahs over them and just, like me, can't help but run their hands over them.
I think the only way I'd change the stand height is if for some reason there was some distinct benefit of having the Nagas in the listening room and the Orcas had to be in the media room, or if I got a different listening chair that was significantly lower to the ground.
If I do end up with the Orcas in the listening room I'm sure I'm going to be very tempted to add a second sub, but that's a bit premature at this point.
Looking forward to the bits...
-- Jim
-
You got it, Jim.
I found a hilarious photo from the archives.
holiday production, 2007.
-
Hi Molly and Clark - is the Blumenstein HQ going to be open to demonstration visits over the next two weeks? I was thinking of stopping by to check out the Orcas I've read so much about here on the BH forum to compare with the speakers I currently have. Sounds like things are pretty busy however and I wouldn't want showing up to be a hassle - if it would be inconvenient I could try to find an open Saturday in the months to come.
-
I know that things are not supposed to sound this good so early in the break-in process, but I just had an amazing listening experience with the Orcas. I put the XRCD of John Coltrane's "Settin' the Pace" in the player and hit play and after a short intro by the rythm section, Coltrane's sax cut into the mix and nearly knocked me over! This is absolutely the best sax I've ever head -- big, no, huge, reedy, brassy, clean, meaty and so very real. I've listened to this album many times on my old system with the tranquility SE dac, Fi 2a3 monos and my tonian tl-d1s and I thought it was really quite good then (and that was using a fully optimized computer as a source for the Tranquility.) This easily bested it in every way. And for those following the MyDac thread, yes, this is still the MyDac in the system.
Great stuff!
-- Jim
-
Hi Kerry,
Send me an email ([email protected]) and we'll come up with a time for you to stop by. No inconvenience at all! We'd be happy to have you by.
-
Say, how do the Orcas do at low volumes? Do they need to really be "cranked" to sound fleshed-out? I now am running a Stereomour with 2A3 tubes, but in a much smaller, urban condo with wood floors (bamboo, coincidentally) where I can't really crank anything up too loud.
-
The Orcas sound really good at lower volume levels.
-
I just got an email from a customer in Australia who is really happy with his Orca/Stereomour setup. He said I could share his impressions:
"The stereomour is a very good amp, especially for the price. The 3.5 watts a side go a long way with the orcas. I recently compared it to a Bakoon amp. This particular bakoon amp retails for $4k, has 15 watts a side and is a solid state design that has converted set amp enthusiasts to solid state, sort of like the Nelson pass designs. The bakoon is a very good sounding amp, but the stereomour had more drive and overall, to my ears, the stereomour just sounded better. I actually did not realise the full extent of how good the stereomour was until I compared it to the bakoon. I have also compared it to a few other tube amps and the stereomour keeps coming out on top.
Due to my geographical location I don't get the chance to listen to a huge amount of gear like some 'Audiophiles' but I am completely happy with Bottlehead and Blumenstein gear. It's a sound I have been looking for for the past 3 or so years."
-
Molly,
Was that with sub or without?
Thanks for the read.
Stephen
-
Stephen, this customer is without subs right now.
-
I will suggest to everyone to add a BUF sub or two. As amazing as the Orcas are, it's even better with subs! We're going to have a near field setup with a sub in the lobby here at BHQ next year.
-
I second that, Doc. I was playing the First Impressions disc of "Cantate Domino" yesterday, and those low organ pipes sounded just like they do in the organ loft. Most of my collection does not go so low, but it is real nice to hear the subs when the music does reach for the bottom octave. Hope to see you on Friday the fourth for some listening.
Cheers to all Bottleheads! Hank in Eugene
-
I second that, Doc. I was playing the First Impressions disc of "Cantate Domino" yesterday, and those low organ pipes sounded just like they do in the organ loft. Most of my collection does not go so low, but it is real nice to hear the subs when the music does reach for the bottom octave. Hope to see you on Friday the fourth for some listening.
Cheers to all Bottleheads! Hank in Eugene
I plan on ordering a set of Orca's with a single sub. I think that will be better in my small listening room. Hopefully that will be enough.
-
I figured the Sub was a necessity for me due to the variety of music genres I listen to. I dont think Metal or Trance would quite satisfactory when listening through only the Orcas. Do the current subwoofers use a black or sliver driver? I've seen pictures of both on the Blumenstein site but I was not sure which was the current iteration.
-
dogz,
The current subs use the black woofers -- these are the paper cone ones.
-- Jim
-
This may be blasphemy, but what about using a sub other than an Orca.
My problem is that I just do not have the space for an Orca sub in my planned listening area.
I really would prefer an Orca sub (if I even need a sub), but the physical size is just not practical.
I wasn't going to bring this up until I actually had a chance to hear the Orca's in my environment, but since the subject came up.........
Don
-
This may be blasphemy, but what about using a sub other than an Orca.
I thought about this as well. For me it was more of a budget problem than a space thing. I already have two subs from my SEXy project.
I don't see why it wouldn't work. You would just have to figure out where to set the crossover point. That should be easy enough with a little experimentation. Even then it may not be as good as Clark's offering. But it could be a stepping stone for someone until they can dig up some more funds or clear some room for the sub.
-
Folks,
Realize that you can place the orca subs on the side or back as well and they aren't super heavy. When you can upgrade, it will be well worth it -- they really are tuned to match the Orcas perfectly -- in tone, covered range, and dynamics.
Hope this helps,
Jim
-
This may be blasphemy, but what about using a sub other than an Orca.
My problem is that I just do not have the space for an Orca sub in my planned listening area.
I really would prefer an Orca sub (if I even need a sub), but the physical size is just not practical.
I wasn't going to bring this up until I actually had a chance to hear the Orca's in my environment, but since the subject came up.........
Don
I do have to nod my head to anyone who is willing to just experiment with the subs they've got around and see how well the Orcas work with them. I did this for years before coming to the Orca Sub. That Dayton sub that goes with the Sexy project should get you down the road a stretch. I've got a few customers who use them.
However, Jim Rebman's comments on the Orca Sub echo mine as well. I have never heard a sub blend like the Orca sub unless is was really expen$ive! We've been shipping Orca Subs with the black paper cones since this summer, but our photography is not all up to date. Hopefully when things wind down after we've shipped everyone's order in January we'll have time to go in and add some new content to the website.
This is really important to understand for those who are serious with their Orcas: The crossover style and overall Orca/Sub system design was modeled more along the lines of much higher end speakers: separate cabinets for the drivers, each with its internal bracing optimized for the demands of each respective frequency range. Separate subs from sub amps/crossovers makes a big difference in terms of vibration transmision, and ours just happen to be inexpensive to our customers because we opted to not get a custom aluminum blah blah blah machined to house the conventional amplifier components. We are just using a modified Dayton to get it all biamped because that's all you really need.
But - acoustically speaking, they benefit from many of the same considerations that really high end speakers do in their setup, distances from surrounding objects, and room treatment, component tuning, and break-in. Yet, they will also sound just fine thank you very much if they are pointed all cattywonkus - one trying to fill the dining room and one pointed to the attached living room or etc.
Yet I am starting to realize that because most speakers in the Orcas' price range are too "blunted" to reap the same benefits from the same tweaking, all this talk of the Orcas' huge performance potential can be a little confusing to newcomers who might just be looking for cool bookshelf speakers or something and don't know about their back story or pedigree.
And so: The answer I must resoundingly give is that they will work really and truly well in both high brow and low brow applications... its all in the way they are setup and amplified. We can offer you our pertinent expertise whichever application you can dream up to be considered.
Merry belated Christmas, or reasonably co-incident holidays everyone! Hope all was enjoyed.
Best,
Clark
-
I will suggest to everyone to add a BUF sub or two. As amazing as the Orcas are, it's even better with subs! We're going to have a near field setup with a sub in the lobby here at BHQ next year.
Dan, here's one of the things we are making you:
http://www.blumensteinaudio.com/orca-floorstanders/
This is my personal favorite Orca setup so far. I suggest feeding it with either Stereomour or Beepree feeding Paramounts, depending upon the size of your room (mostly). This new model was designed to get essentially the same performance as Orcas on Floorstands and a pair of Orca Subs sat beside. Yet this "Orca/Sub Floorstander" saves livingroom space and helps to ease the speakers' setup; i.e. to make the setup much more similar to a typical audiophile two way floorstander - that's meant to be out into the room.
-
But yet, for the folks thinking on a tighter budget, I need to bring attention to this other photo, bottom right of this page: http://www.blumensteinaudio.com/orca-sub/)
The Orcas are a totally modular system: you can initially use no subs, just one sub, or put the Orcas/Subs in many possible arrangements until the room frees up a bit to allow for our traditional audiophile floorstander type speaker, or whichever direction your system should choose to take itself.
The pertinence of our upcoming price increase to this discussion is that people on a budget can purchase some of their bigger and more important components (like the speaker cabinets) pre-price increase, and then add accessories, sub amps, stands and things that won't be going up as much in price down the road.
We will have some really fun new content going up on the website after Jan 1st. It should help people understand our system setup recommendations a lot better.
-
But yet, for the folks thinking on a tighter budget, I need to bring attention to this other photo, bottom right of this page: http://www.blumensteinaudio.com/orca-sub/)
Clark, How important is it to have the sub in the center like that? Can it be off to the left or right as well? -Tom
-
But yet, for the folks thinking on a tighter budget, I need to bring attention to this other photo, bottom right of this page: http://www.blumensteinaudio.com/orca-sub/)
Clark, How important is it to have the sub in the center like that? Can it be off to the left or right as well? -Tom
Tom, In short, just place a single sub wherever it fits in the room and is reasonably close to the fullrangers.
In general, the sub being in between the speakers is less of a factor until the Orcas are pretty far apart or there are other room factors that would come into play like corners you would either want or not want to use as boundary reinforcement for the subwoofer's output (depending upon how well your room would deal with boundary reinforcement)
And so the big factor in the way that our sub gets placed is that you can choose the placement of its port/driver/binding posts and that these options allow a level of tailoring the sub's cabinet to be able to fit into cramped spaces without getting the "wrong kind" of boundary reinforcement. Basically I'd say try not to point the driver or port towards anything that is less than 6-12" away, and you are prettymuch good to go.
For instance, the subs can be laid down on their backs underneath a coffee table or placed directly against a wall.
Thanks for the questions!
-Clark
-
I do have to nod my head to anyone who is willing to just experiment with the subs they've got around and see how well the Orcas work with them. I did this for years before coming to the Orca Sub. That Dayton sub that goes with the Sexy project should get you down the road a stretch. I've got a few customers who use them.
snip...........
Yet I am starting to realize that because most speakers in the Orcas' price range are too "blunted" to reap the same benefits from the same tweaking, all this talk of the Orcas' huge performance potential can be a little confusing to newcomers who might just be looking for cool bookshelf speakers or something and don't know about their back story or pedigree.
And so: The answer I must resoundingly give is that they will work really and truly well in both high brow and low brow applications... its all in the way they are setup and amplified. We can offer you our pertinent expertise whichever application you can dream up to be considered.
Merry belated Christmas, or reasonably co-incident holidays everyone! Hope all was enjoyed.
Best,
Clark
Clark,
Thanks for your commentary which helped me come down to earth so to speak and remind myself just what the goals are for this system I'm putting together.
Don
-
Tried to post this earlier, unsuccessfully. I have been experimenting with the Orcas and BUF Subs(black cones). No sub, one sub, and both subs in a 19x15x8 room. Without the subs, the Orcas are volume limited, yet very articulate. With one sub, the volume limitation largely goes away, and with two subs the hall ambiance is stronger with a better sense of the original venue. Everything seems more effortless. Using both Stereophile test CD's, I measured the response in my room with a Ratshack meter and all is pretty even down to 50 Hz, where there is a six Db suckout, the response back strong at 40Hz and 31.5Hz, falling off to -6Db at 25Hz, and -12Db at 20Hz.
Following the testing, I listened to the Telarc vinyl pressing of Saint-Se
-
I had a super fun demo at Blumenstein Audio HQ yesterday. Clark swapped between components and we had a small pre/amp shootout. Up and running at the shop was a Seduction, Quickie, Sex w/ c4s, and a 2a3 Stereomour. I contributed my own FP-III Ext., Seduction w/ c4s and 0C3, and 45 Paramounts.
Funny, the first time my components were hooked up and played everything sounded muffled. Huh? Was it my L-pad on the Paramounts input? I thought of my questionably crappy soldering. Then from some deep crevice in my brain i rememebered - OH! My cartridge at home is a HOMC and I have like 1 or 2k on my seduction inputs! So back went the in house Seduction and much better. The Sex and 2a3 Stereomour amps were very nice sounding - but I really liked the highly textured sound of the 45's. Clark was also kind enough to try some EML 45's in my Paramounts. (Well... I DO have the soft start upgrade. Sure! haha.) Oh my - I do like my Philco's but the EML was somethin' else for sure. Maybe Clark wants to chime in on the differences because he has a much more trained ear than I.
The pair of Orcas & Subs they had were brand spankin' new - no burn in time. They are literally flying off the shelves according to Clark & Molly. That was just fine for me - even for not being broken in I could tell how great they sound. I could really hear how much flatter over the spectrum these were over the speakers I use currently. Also, what really sealed the deal for me was the way they had so much more more clarity during fast / complicated pieces of music which was just astounding to me. And hey - if this is how they sound when new then I can ONLY IMAGINE for now what I will be listening to after I get my pair. Yup - I ordered some right there on the spot! I am very pleased that I found just the speaker solution that I was looking for - affordable, high performing, and made by super nice people!
-
I just joined the Orca club!!! Decided to go for the full meal deal, supersized.
1 pair of Natural Bamboo Orcas
1 pair of Natural Orca Passive Subwoofers, mirrored with stabilization bases.
1 pair of 250 Watt Subwoofer Amplifiers in Bamboo Boxs
1 pair of Floor Stands for Orcas
I wanted to get a pair of bamboo boxes for my Paramour's but I blew my budget all to hell. Oh well. There is always next year. ;)
These will be mated to a pair of Paramour II mono-blocks running 45's. A Foreplay III will be up front doing the line-stage duties.
Needless to say I'm very excited.
-
On the last second I decided to grab a pair.... or is that buy a pair....
Umm...
Well I order a set of Orca Natural. I really couldn't justify the sub and sub amp which when shipping applied really threw a curve ball into the total. Maybe later in the year or something.
Stephen
-
Busy day for the Blumensteins yesterday........I also placed my order for a pair of caramelized Orcas. It will then have to travel all the way to Jakarta, Indonesia :)
-
Yes, it was so nice to have you over Kerry! And sorry we didn't even have a pair hooked up for you when you got here, bad memory on our end that we had shipped out literally everything that was completed before we took off to hang with the fam last week. We hooked up the pair we listened to so fast, that after you left we had to go back, unmount them from the Orca/Sub floorstanders, and put a few more coats of finish on them and tidy them up a bit.
Your amps were really really nicely executed, and the shootout was alot of food for thought in regards to what the Orcas like. As I've been tending to a little higher power of the Stereomour and eventually the 300B paramounts, your amps reminded me again that appearances can be deceiving - I keep finding this time and again in the world of SET amps that the rated power output is only a fraction of the whole picture in regards to the true driving capability. The big kahuna BH transformers in your paramounts make them one hell of a 45 amp. Much more stout, resolved, and louder, and "rock-out-able" than my paramour II's (with speco's) converted to 45 use, for instance. Also, your extended foreplay has got to be the finest example of a foreplay that I've heard to date.
Now that we are back to our home system, we are still running the Seduction w/C4S, Quickie w/PJCCS, and Stereomour 2A3 for the last several weeks. We've been able to get some really respectable volumes and dynamics out of them the last few days with the Orca/Sub Floorstanders.
In regards to break in, you are going to really like your system if you liked the sound coming from them that night! The last few days, Molly and I have burnt them in and so much has changed in the sound (subtly)!
So I am just jumping out of my seat to get everyone shipped out asap so that they can hear this magic too.
Cheers,
Clark
-
Hi folks,
We received some emails from people who'd tried to get orders in to beat the price increase but had trouble with our online store. Since Clark and I were out of contact last night for New Years Eve, we weren't able to arrange payment. Given all that, we wanted to extend the old prices for one more day to lighten the pressure for any last-minute types (and also lighten the administrative load on our end ;) ).
New prices will become active in the store January 2, 9:00 am PST. We are arranging payment directly with the folks who had problems; if you too need assistance, just email me directly to place an order.
All the best to everyone in the new year! Thanks many times over for all the orders and support we've been given this past year!
Molly
-
Hi all, I come bearing even more news of technical difficulties. We just discovered that our email has been down since midnight, January 1. If you placed an order or tried to reach us by email after that time, or would like to reach us in the meantime, please contact us at this temporary email address:
[email protected]
We should have our email back online by Friday at the latest I'm told, but hopefully much sooner than that. Our phone numbers are also posted on the 'Find Us' page of our website.
-Molly
-
We are back online and our email addresses have resumed working. Hooray!
[email protected]
[email protected]
Molly
-
I received my speakers two weeks ago last Friday. I had Christmas shopping to do so I put them on the floor facing each other, out of phase, in mono, and started burn in.
Three hours later I returned for my first listen. They are a beautiful piece of audio jewelry!
-
Howdy.
I'm a new forum member who is [very] anxiously looking forward to receiving my paramount 300B kits in ~3weeks.
The Orcas are also super intriguing to me (especially given all the positive words from you folks). My listening space is not large (essentially a sitting area off of our master bedroom)...it's a turn of the century home so the space was probably a sleeping porch originally. I.e. they'd be used primarily for near-field listening most of the time... As it stands today, my listening is via headphone (re-cabled Senn 600s)
The Paramounts will be paired with a VPI traveler turntable and Coffman Labs G1a pre-amp/ phono stage (also serves as my headphone amp). I may add a digital source at some point down the road.
At the risk of asking a presumptuous question, is there anybody in the Portland, Or area with Orcas in their setup that might be amenable to me having a listen?
Many thanks in advance, and I genuinely can't wait to start building the Paramounts. Really impressed by the demeanor and expertise of folks on this board as I've been reading through threads in a blind attempt to make myself a little smarter :)
cheers
Bryan
-
I am in Eugene OR, and you would be very welcome to come for a listen. The rest of the system is all tube MQ/Bottlehead Customs, with an Oppo DVP-95 player and a VPI 19 table with BPS Evo lll cartridge. Mine are set up in a quasi-near field(7' x 7' x 7') with Clark's Subs(they can be silenced).
Cheers, Hank (541-285-4222)
-
Hank,
that's really kind of you. Thanks!
I'll see what my schedule allows in coming week ( I may be travelling for work) and give you a ring to coordinate a covenient time/ date if it looks like I could make the drive to Eugene.
best regards,
Bryan
-
Here is how the Orcas look in my listening room. It is 21' X 13.5'.
(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi244.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fgg7%2FGrainger49%2FBottlehead%2520Equipment%2FIMG_14551_zps3b8829c9.jpg&hash=84db7af2cc477c19a283b9d0302ed86624d150d9)
The room could have been neater. My fat feet are not in the way of the drivers, the Paramours are between the Orcas, FP 2 and Eros behind in the bottom of the cabinet. My VPI table is covered with the cloth to keep the two kittens off of it. It also keeps off a lot of dust dog and cat hair.
The sub in the right rear corner is not playing. It is a Brazilian rosewood (from the 70s no embargo then) Infinity sub. It isn't on. The Boston Acoustics sub behind my right foot is playing. The Full Sail Ale beer sign should have been on, it is the serious listening light.
-
Nothing goes better with Jimmey Buffett than an all tube rig ...... trust me, I know ....
-
Had another audio buddy here this weekend. He drove up from Atlanta, 4 hours, to hear the Orcas. He agrees that they seem to defy the laws of physics. His jaw was on the ground.
-
My 2 cents about the Orca's after about only 20 hours:
Imaging better than my MMG's, tone to die for, and a reach (resolution) further into the music. Listening to Fleet Foxes 'Helplessness Blues' 24/96 HD Tracks album download through the Halide DAC HD and the Orca's was a revelation. A great match for the 2A3 Stereomour (stock except for ALPs Blue Velvet control).
Kudos to Clark & Molly. I had worried that jumping from my old amp and MMG's was another impulsive twitch. Thanks for saving me the cost of another hair shirt.
-
I disagree with the notion that the Orcas defy physics. In fact they show that Clarko has a pretty damned good grip on the physics. Use them wrong, and you will never appreciate their capabilities. Use them as designed and they are truly wonderful. Please don't take that as damning with faint praise, because they can definitely outdo my bigass 6 driver and 7 amps per side setup on imaging. You will not recreate the impact of exploding C4 when they breach the doors in Zero Dark Thirty (great flic, saw it last night) with Orcas. But when listening to music you will hear vocals at live room levels that will make you open your eyes and look to see if the artist is really in front of you.
-
AMEN, Brother. Can I hear a Gawd Bomb?!?
-
I myself wouldn't call it defying physics either but I do think in terms of the physics it is far more optimized than any other speaker I've experienced. I do think that that as one listens though, a bit of cognitive dissonance does set in as I think most or all of us simply aren't used to hearing so much, with so few flaws from such a small speaker.
I'm so glad to seeso many people trying these and really enjoying them. I'm not at all comfortable being a fan-boy, especially of things audio knowing how different we all hear and perceive music and sound, the effects of room and gear, etc. but they really seem to just make music so well for so many, and as Clark said, high-brow or low-brow, they're right at home in a wide range of systems.
It's really fun to see how many people's system profiles in their signatures that have been static c for so long (a thing I admire and aspire to myself), now list Orcas in place of their long-standing reference speakers. And it's really gratifying to me personally, if I've helped at all to spread the musical love a bit. I do it completely for my fellow audio geeks and nothing more.
-- Jim
-
Dan,
I should have said they defied the speaker technology of the old days (60s-70s) when I sold audio gear. A 3" speaker was a tweeter, midranges were often 5" and woofers started at 8". But not everybody would understand the 60s and 70s. Much of that time I had a servo driven 18" sub. It sits silent in the front right corner of my listening room today.
But I did say, "seem...."
We listened for a long time with my current sub turned off. We were very impressed with the bass with the Orcas far from any reflecting and reinforcing walls. This isn't what anyone could do with a 3" driver back in the dark days when I was selling audio gear.
Yes, Jim, cognitive dissonance. The full range driver has a coherence I have never heard before. I'm convinced that accounts for the clarity of the imaging and soundstage.
-
"Extraordinary, adj.,a : going beyond what is usual, regular, or customary <extraordinary powers>
Someone should defend Grainger's use of a figure of speech here (defying the laws of physics). The Orca's are damned-well and gloriously extraordinary. They do the unexpected. Unexpected, as in seemingly defying what we take for granted, stuff like Newtonian physics. I'm sure that physics properly understood, with a Japanese accent, explains what these tiny boxes do, but it damn sure seems to defy some kind of law to me. Can I get a hallelujah!?! Can I get an amen?!?
I thing Grainger got it right. He didn't say his jaw dropped did he? Oops. :-[
-
270 hours in with Orca's, stands, Subs and 100w amps and the sound is Superb! The Orcas are really starting to hold there own and fill the room with sound. I agree that they SEEM to defy physics.
Thankyou Thankyou Thankyou Clark and Molly.
Pat
-
Looking forward to getting my own pair of Orca's in on Monday! I have a S.E.X. 2.1 due to arrive next week so I'll be stuck powering my my Orca's with my FirstWatt F5 in the mean time. It will be nice to hear these speakers on two different styles of amplifier.
-
My Orcas arrived this past Thursday and I cannot find enough time to listen to them. They are so natural sounding and just tickle the ears. I haven't been able to listen to must sax music on my Audio Nirvanas because of the blare. With the Orcas you can just hear the reed vibrating so sweetly. When listening to a vibraphone every nuance of the vibrato and decay is vivid. It is hard to believe the sounds that come out of such a small package. The Orca subs will be next. Thanks for all of the good reviews on this forum. It convinced me to give the Orcas a try. If anyone is kind of waffling about them take the plunge. You will be glad you did.
-
"Decay" That is something that I noticed too. Even the fade out of familiar songs seems to go on forever. Notes that hang in the soundstage will fade very naturally.
It is hard for me to imagine someone not enjoying the sound of the Orcas but everyone listens for different things in music so there are going to be folks out there who the Orcas just don't appeal to.
-
Letting my Orca's burn in and getting high off their natural varnish, or maybe its just from the sweet sound emanating from those small white cones. I have a few options as to the placement of the speakers but for now I'm enjoying them from my desk. The sound really does seem to come from an invisible source several feet from where the actual speaker is sitting. They are wonderful for acoustic/live genres where there is more emphasis on the midrange and treble. Rock, Metal and Electronica are good but need the extra punch of a sub for the full experience. For now I am extremely content just playing some Ludovico Einaudi and sitting back with my tumbler of W. L. Weller Bourbon.
-Tom
-
Looks like Scotch or Bourbon and water aids your listening as it does mine. (well, Bourbon for me, not Scotch)
I took the fast way out. I put my Orcas on a 120WPC SS amp and played my music loudly for over 400 hours; listening once a day to the progress. Of course it helps having a "dedicated listening room (~2200 Cu Ft)" in the house. This is the bonus room (not above the garage without the walls that slant in) that is not legally a bedroom. If I turn the storage space above the garage to a closet I can legally call it a bedroom.
Today I was listening to my VSAC 2003 Demo disk. It is my most eclectic collection of music1. The Taiko drums from the Sheffield Kodo album were amazing. One Winter's Night is absolutely stunning with the instruments floating in space. This is an album anyone interested in acoustic music should own, Strength In Numbers/Telluride Sessions. You won't believe the artists in this group.
1This disk includes all acoustic, Triad (written by D. Crosby), from Jefferson Airplane, Taiko drums, Festival Sketch by MJQ, San Miguel by The Kingston Trio, an R&B cover by Alison Krauss, and a jazz song (Clear) by Spirit. A tribute to my eclectic taste in music as one retailer I know described it.
Addition: Listening today to the whole of Strength In Numbers, Telluride Sessions, there are fades I never knew were there. I have to reiterate DECAY in all caps! The dynamics are shocking me. This is a very familiar album. I know every note on it but what I am hearing today is a clarity that wasn't there before. As I had noted before, the side men, in this case Be'la Fleck, Jerry Douglas and Sam Bush are in a straight line, not in a semi circle. Mark O'Connor and Edgar Meyer are dead center. This is a revelation!
I'm still screwing with the sub's crossover. I turned it all the way up to 100 Hz but can't decide. I don't seem to hear any trouble at this frequency and I had assumed I would.
-
I'll need to orient my orca subs with the speaker cones forward. Is it better for the ports to be faced in a certain direction? I.E. towards each other or away? The subs will be around 5+ feet or so apart.
-
Tom,
Probably room dependent and how far the sides of the subs are to the side walls. My guess and experience is that 5 feet is ok but you should try it both ways. These don't require forklifts to move around like a lot of subs out there.
In my setup I had the cones facing each other (with the rack of gear inbetween noless) and they were 5 feet apart or less.
HTH,
Jim
-
In my setup I had the cones facing each other (with the rack of gear inbetween noless) and they were 5 feet apart or less.
I was originally going to set mine up like that. But I was forced into a compromised listening space for now. Therefore I'm unable to bring the subs away from the wall enough. We shall see. With a little experimentation I'm sure I'll be able to figure out an acceptable positioning arrangement. Thanks Jim.
BTW did you see my comments regarding the MyDac and ALIX music server?
-
Hi Tom,
Yes, sure did see the comments about the Alix and mydac. I'll be staying tuned to that for sure.
BTW, not to get too far astray here, but I finally got my iPad Mini and the Zag mini-9 keyboard all setup and was playing with MOG last night and was very pleasantly surprised at how good the streaming 320 kbps files sounded with my Sennheiser PX-100 IIi headphones directly plugged into the headphone jack on the iPad. Not top tier sound for sure, but really quite decent. Also, my iFi usb power box, headamp and dac all shipped today, so soon I can use the iPad mini directly into that setup through the camera connection kit and I expect the sound quality to take a big leap. AND if folks have not checked out MOG yet, I strongly suggest taking it for a test run -- best streaming service I've ever encountered and by a country mile, no contest.
Now back to speakers...
Hey Doc, can Blumnenstein get their own sub forum like MQ?
-- Jim
-
Tom,
Probably room dependent and how far the sides of the subs are to the side walls. My guess and experience is that 5 feet is ok but you should try it both ways. These don't require forklifts to move around like a lot of subs out there.
In my setup I had the cones facing each other (with the rack of gear inbetween noless) and they were 5 feet apart or less.
Dear Jim; I tried that, but thought the subs were interacting with the tubes on my amp, so I fired the subs away from each other as there are no walls close by and they sound terrific now. I am lucky that there is an open doorway for the right channel to fire into and no bad first reflection points to muddy the image. Check the photo....
Cheers, Hank in Eugene
-
Hey Hank,
Yes, I'm planning on the subs facing out (with the Nagas) in the listening room even though I still haven't decided if I'm going to leave the rack between the speakers or move it over closer to the listening chair.
If I could see the pic, I'd be happy to look at it :-) (I'm totally blind.)
-- Jim
-
Hey Jim, I forgot who I was talking with. Sometimes I wish I had a remote volume control, but it is only a few steps to the preamp. Anyway, I am sure you have a strong mental image of your system, as I have for mine. If we ever get together in my room, you can fondle all you like, and PB created many felicitous details to fondle!
Cheers, Hank in Eugene
-
Has anyone tried an Orca sub for home theater duties? I am concerned that it appears to use a 6" woofer (could be wrong about this) instead of a more traditional larger subwoofer driver. I have no concerns about its musical ability, but what about explosions, etc. you get in movies?
I am exchanging emails with Clark. Just looking for others feedback before spending not insignificant sums of money.
I currently use Orcas for L/R/C channels with a pretty good Dayton titanic subwoofer. I will be using it with Audyssey room correction.
-
I can't control myself this morning. This is not a direct answer to your question.
Considering what an under 3" diaphragm (3" nominal) does in the Orca, the 6" sub will do fine. I am looking at dual subs and dual amps. (If the funding comes through)
My Boston Acoustics sub, my second sub, has been used for both my "Big Rig" and the A/V system throughout the years I have had it. The advantage of a smaller, and similar cone being used for the sub is that the transient response will more closely match.
Trust me, I started with an 18" sub, with a 16" piston capable of an acoustic watt. That is kick you in the pants volume. The problem is that this big a woofer didn't match the transients of full range electrostatic speakers it was matched to. There was always a discontinuity in the music. Kick, yes! Coherence of the Orca, never.
-
I tried asking this to Clark and Molly, but got no reply, busy sanding??
I ordered a pair of the Orcas in late December but did not order the stands due to the high shipping cost of it, the same with the subwoofers. My questions were, the height of the stand and a recommendation of subwoofer designs.
As for the stand height, should we have the tweeter at the exact height or is slightly below better than slightly higher ot it doesn't really matter?
There are so many DIY subwoofer design out there, are there designs that most likely will be a good companion for the Orca? Or even ready made subs that you guys that have used it with Orcas and feel it's a good match?
Thanks.
-
The problem is that this big a woofer didn't match the transients of full range electrostatic speakers it was matched to. There was always a discontinuity in the music. Kick, yes! Coherence of the Orca, never.
Hey Granger - I have had that experience with my planars as well. My solution was to move the sub close to the listening position and play with the phase until it was 'right'. Of course, good quick power to the sub is essential. I use class D. Very good for bass IMO.
-
I had the Orcas standing on top of the BUF Subs for some months, but after a visit to BHeadquarters and an extended listening session to the big system there I decided that a little below ear height of the Orcas in my room yielded a 'lower balcony' presentation. Since I wanted an 'orchestra floor' presentation, I asked Clark & Molly to make me a pair of risers to elevate the Orcas five inches. Soon I will find out if that creates the presentation I am looking for; and I will post a followup after listening. Audio, like Life, is made up of continuous adjustments___ accompanied by the hope that they are graceful. Cheers, Hank
-
Hank, that's interesting. Please keep us posted with the outcome. I still have time to build my own stands, there is a delay in delivery according to the latest email from Molly.
-
I had intended to eventually get the Orcas at ear height. Right now I approximate that with a lower stand and tilting them backward so they fire at my ears.
The Orcas are the first speaker that have given me distinct heights in music. One piece of rock portrayed the drum set low as it should be. The guitars were higher than I usually hear them and the voice a distinct 2 feet higher. Very interesting. With the front to back and side to side clarity they bring to me they are adding the final dimension.
-
Grainger,
I really wanted to try the Orcas on the Mapleshade Bedrock stands myself, but I just don't have room for another system, and the pair of Orcas in the living room would have been a good candidate, but they had to go on wall brackets there as it was the only practical way to mount them in that space.
I still may try the bedrocks someday, especially since mapleshade has their 30-day return policy. Just too many other priorities right now -- like, ahem, getting the system playing with the SR-45s.
-- Jim
-
Grainger, what subs have you ever paired with the Orca and which do you like most?
-
I am using a Boston Acoustics VR2000 sub that I bought in the 90s. It has served in my stereo, A/V and back to my stereo with the Triangles.
So only one sub.
My 4000th post.
-
Demsy,
I've had my Orcas for about a week now. I'm using them in my office at my computer workstation in a low volume, near field application. I've got them sitting on a pair of 6" stands that I made myself out of red oak, and finished with spar varnish. This puts the drivers near ear level.
Since this is a low volume application, and just need a touch of extra fill in on the bottom end, I decided to try a Dayton Audio 8" powered sub from Parts Express. It is working out extremely well in this environment. I've got the crossover set to about 90 Hz, and the gain at about 1:00 on the dial. Sitting in a corner next to my work table, it blends in nicely.
A S.E.X 2.1 is driving the sub and speakers. This setup has given me a new reason to want to go to work just so I can listen to the system.
Hope this helps.
Don
-
Hi all!
Thanks for the questions and enthusiasm! Molly and I have been in the final stages of three moves these last few weeks so we've had a few emails slip through the cracks (moving out of a 10* 20 storage unit that was FULL of live edge slabs and audio equipment... will be having a yard sale very soon here!!!!!!, moving ourselves into a home that is separate from the shop, and moving many things around the the shop to make it even bigger and more capable...
All totaled around 15000 pounds hitched a ride on our backs so we've been pretty wiped this last week especially). The good news is that the demo room has gotten alot bigger and better set up, the shop is even better lubricated, better set up, and we now have a dedicated office for our computers (and us) to sit in undisturbed in concentration from either the shop or the demo space.... starting.... tomorrow! Today is the last day of dedicated moving of things and setting things back up.
We worked our backlog down from what was nearly 2.5 months as of the first week of January down to ~5 weeks as of the end of this month. We are really proud of this fact. It was a herculean effort considering the planning for, and then the moves that took place amidst all this production.
There are many pairs of Orca fullrangers that are to be wired up and shipped out this next week, and we are simultaneously running through several more pairs of Orcas, and finally Orca subs through the saw this weekend. Bottlehead bases are shipping out early next week as well.
I am budgeting some serious time to work on a comprehensive "subwoofer hookup" article that will go into our FAQ section that deals with all manner of crossing over your Orcas to your Orca Subs (or any other brand of subwoofer). As it turns out, there are several different perfectly plausible and good sounding ways to cross over your speakers, there are also many good commercial subwoofers out there. It is my goal to not just present "the one" way we like to do it so much as to inform folks as to the tradeoffs of each different kind of hookup style or subwoofer arrangement.
Hopefully this should really help.
Thanks to everyone for bearing with us! We are so friggin' excited to have more space in the shop now!!!
Cheers,
Clark
P.S. Seattle Met magazine did a cool write up of us in the February issue.
http://www.seattlemet.com/arts-and-entertainment/articles/blumenstein-audio-makes-some-of-the-best-speakers-you-ve-never-heard-february-2013
We had a blast doing the photo shoot and I've especially got to give a huge thanks to our freind Joe Gustav who got his article in there as a freelance writer... no easy feat! My only regret (though I sure tried!) is that there wasn't space for a shout out to Bottlehead because of the "annotated space" format of the article. However, I definitely let them know about our way cool ally over on Bainbridge...so lets see what happens in the coming months!
I'm such a believer in HiFi as a passtime, hobby, religion, artform, technology, obsession, or whatever becoming more of a part of our collective cultural consciousness and I am really encouraged about what an article like this means for the greater audio industry. Seattle Met usually runs articles mostly about food, entertainment, live music and etc. but then again, one of the businesses that advertises in Seattle Met, Terra Plata, has our speakers all through their restaurant. And so, fine food and fine music truly go together. And in Terra Plata's case, as an "earth" to "plate" restaurant, I think that there is alot of resemblance to our operation being a woodshop -> customer speaker company. Similar paths to a similar kind of quality.
-
Mirroring an email I sent to Demsy earlier in regards to stand height:
Of course the aim is to have the tweeter at the same level as your ear in the listening position, but it's worth noting that we've found that the Orcas have a far wider dispersion angle than most fullranges, so it is less critically sensitive to driver height than you might think/is worth sweating about. Between 'right at ear level' to 2 inches below is the ideal range though. Commonly, stands are ordered 26" to 28" tall.
Then again, there was a pair of Orcas sacrilegiously sitting on the carpeted floor of our house for a week and I was in bliss.
Anyone interested in DIYing their stands and planning on attaching their Orcas to them in the same way as the Orca Stands should check out the FAQ page on our site about how to assemble them: http://www.blumensteinaudio.com/faq/orca-stands/how-to-assemble-the-orca-floor-and-desktop-stands.html
There'll be a comprehensive shop update sent to everyone who has a current order in on Monday.
That's all for now!
Molly
-
Oh - one more thing - I've been meaning to update everyone about our progress on the new Feastrex project.
Admittably, not much has been done this month because of the move and the way we've had to upgrade and move around our shop so much. However, I have had our new NF5ex drivers and new FEX3DJr power supply breaking in in some ugly test cabinets this past month and the results are very promising. Teramoto-san is a true warrior. I absolutely can't believe it, but he has managed to improve these things alot further than I expected was possible. This has certainly upped the anty on what I am going to expect out of myself as a cabinet designer.
And so, there is still much that admittably remains up in the air in regards to my own cabinet design for them, including the power supply, and even the way that the cabinet might look.
Back in December the plan was to be building some new prototypes during the lull in orders typical to early Jan. But instead I am thinking that now that the shop is truly big enough (as of tomorrow), I'm gonna be able to work on both Orcas (during the day) and Feastrex (at night) during the months of February and March in the same shop without a big rub developing between the two projects, logistically speaking. As fun as the prospect of a production Feastrex model is, it is our main goal to reduce the lead time on orders for our Orca line before we add a new model to our product line. The progress we made on our backlog on Orcas during the month of January is very encouraging to us on this front.
Essentially, in order to be kind to myself as a designer/builder, I don't want to pigeon hole myself into "this" finalized design/specification or "that," by even posting a sketch publically. or even to give much of an idea of what the woodwork will be like until the measurements themselves are in from the concepts that I must first physically bring to life before there can be any further progress. All I am trying to do as a cabinet designer is to let these spectacular drivers do their very best and to stop exactly there. I want as little of my own "intent" as a form of coloration to make its way into the work as possible. I just want to be the limousine driver, in that sense.
So in conclusion, in light of January's opportunity for Feastrex prototyping being eaten up by other things, we are looking at the estimate I gave last summer of an early spring 2013 release as a tad optimistic now. Instead, it should be late spring 2013/early summer 2013 release. There should be some concrete photos and teasers to be posted in the coming months. Stay tuned!
Best,
Clark
-
Congrats with your 4000th post, Grainger!
Don, thanks for your input. It should be good to start with ear level position, as Molly also pointed out that the dispersion angle is wide enough.
Molly also mentioned that Clark is preparing for an article about subwoofers, I will wait until I've read it once posted in this forum before making any decision about it. I was actually thinking of using the B&W PV1D or the REL T5, but now I'll wait.
Also congratulations to Molly and Clark with the new home!
-
It's nice to see Bruce getting the press he deserves.
-
Clark,
New digs all around. I'm sending wishes for great success at home and at work to you both.
Enough of being the straight man, it is good that you two are young with all that moving. When I was in my 20s we moved one of our friends about once a month and drank beer on the other three weekends. We wondered why that moving made us so sore. Ignorance is bliss, as my mother used to say. I now appreciate that she was spot on. We were ignorant and young and strong.
I hope having a clean slate for your shop has enabled you to improve the flow of materials and work. I've seen first hand how more room for this improves production.
I can't imagine that your computers fared well with the bamboo sawdust. I expect it is like flower. It would get everywhere.
Molly,
Is there a template for drilling the mounting holes in the Orcas somewhere to download?
Demsy,
Thanks!
-
I've been doing alot of thinking about some interesting concepts for speaker cabinets which are would be spherical in shape. You can create the same internal volume as your typical rectilinear cabinet but I would think a sphere would do a better job at minimizing reflections.
I've also been curious about using stiffened felt as the primary material for an enclosure. There are some really cool products being made from felt molded into a form, much like plastic and plywood forms. Resin impregnated fabrics will yield high stiffness to weight ratios. Being a product designer for a large Design Firm in SF, I've done some research into all the new materials on the market for application in furniture and other products.
As far as wood products go, Plyboo is a great option for its stiffness and aesthetics which is clear when you see/hear the Orcas. It would be important to isolate what mechanical/physical properties are most important for the cabinet and look at what other materials can achieve the same or better results.
Regarding Bottlehead, I think an amp/pre amp developed to work in unison with the new feastrex driver would be really great. Might be as simple as tweaking an existing amp design to achieve best results when mated to that particular load or something new! A cohesive sound system built to work together from conception would be great for people wanting the best sound without having to worry about the synergy of all the individual components, basically the philosophy used by Apple.
Anyway I'm looking forward to a new year and more sweet sounding music!
P.S. My Orca's have been burning in quite nicely and I'm loving their lucid and resolved sound. Mated with my SEX 2.1 its a pairing which really puts energy and life into the music I listen to!
-
Regarding Bottlehead, I think an amp/pre amp developed to work in unison with the new feastrex driver would be really great.
I was thinking a Feastrex driver developed to work in unison with a Bottlehead amp would be great.
-
^Very true Doc. Coordination among the various parties is certainly ideal!
-
tdogzthmn, how about some spheres of carbon fiber sandwitched around a nomex or aluminum honeycomb done like a modern racing sailboat? I know a guy, he would probably be happy to make a pair for about $50k-$100k. :) That stiffened felt sounds like an interesting material actually. Do you know what type of resin that stuff uses - like vinyl ester or epoxy?
I like the bamboo of the Orcas - it's a sustainable material and I would imagine it's quite stiff because of it's many plied construction. Can't wait till its time to get mine!
-
Kerry,
IIRC Bamboo is the fastest growing plant/tree on earth. Maybe just a little faster than Kudzu?
-
Regarding Bottlehead, I think an amp/pre amp developed to work in unison with the new feastrex driver would be really great.
I was thinking a Feastrex driver developed to work in unison with a Bottlehead amp would be great.
Indeed, Doc. I agree. But I'd offer that the profound amount of development work that's already in the Feastrex drivers calls us to just do our best. So the best I can do at this stage as a dealer for the Feastrex drivers is to design the cabinet. And I think I'll be able to do quite a bit. That is, until a huge pile of cash miraculously falls into my lap. Then we'll talk Blumenstein driver production ;)
Re: Thomas,
In regards to the spherical speaker suggestion, in my opinion, while very stiff, actually results in a speaker with exactly one profound resonance as all radii are the same.
The alternative solution I've found to work over time is to break up resonances in an enclosure by using varying dimensions/facets. In rectangular box design, I try to stay to somewhere around the golden ratio (which is no secret in the world of speaker design). It breaks up the resonances fairly effectively.
Also, in the case of the Orca, the inside does not look the same as the outside... However, I find that bizarrely/randomly faceted enclosures tend to sound a little weird too. So! - everything in moderation - including moderation.
It is worth noting above all else that the Orca cabinet has been designed with just a saw applied many hundreds of times, and many hundreds of sets of ears, and that the same process has been/will be applied to the Feastrexes. That is, cut, try, listen to peoples' feedback, and the sound of the Orcas has improved very gradually but assuredly.
There are many trappings in the design process, but no true short cuts, otherwise after almost 10 years in the audio industry, believe me, I would still be using them.
I don't see myself as merely a proponent of tradition, but rather a cog in the big wheel that keeps on turning slowly - that somehow, strangely took a turn and snowballed me up into it somewhere along the way back when I met Terry Cain, Doc B, and Teramoto-san, and many other inspirational builders of audio gear. but most importantly, and most profoundly, I was snowballed up the day I met myself in the work somewhere along the line.
There are many "cutting edge" objects that are still made in absolute adherence to tradition. Samurai swords are one of them. Feastrex drivers, which have design lineage back to the 1940's (the work of Mr. Sano passed on to Mr. Teramoto), are another.
Feastrex's shop is actually in a region of Japan where traditional apprenticeship to Samurai sword makers is still alive and well.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/ancient/secrets-samurai-sword.html
So the real challenge to me in the design process of a Feastrex speaker is to understand its nature as a human challenge - how can I bring MY best to the work, MY heart, to be the clearest window into the hearts of others who are involved in the project as well.
Peace,
Clark
-
I was merely responding to the comment that sometimes crops up that our stuff needs to be changed to work with something else. I'm not saying that about you at all Clarko! I think we have one of the coolest business relationships going, and our stuff seems a match made in heaven.
-
" . . . the day I met myself in the work somewhere along the line."
Beautiful. Thank you.
-
I was merely responding to the comment that sometimes crops up that our stuff needs to be changed to work with something else. I'm not saying that about you at all Clarko! I think we have one of the coolest business relationships going, and our stuff seems a match made in heaven.
Oh totally man!
I know what you mean about being caught in the middle of the design process though. Amps and speaker cabinets always have to give up ground. How about those lazy tube makers and fullrange driver makers get off their butts some time and do something that WASN'T already done in the 1930's, huh!?! But on many levels, I think that being at the parts of the process that ask us to be really adaptable suits you and I well in terms of our personalities.
And I am serious about making drivers some day though. But it would either take a pile of cash with no strings attached just falling into my lap or I'll just wait (work) until the BA sales can support such nonsense as buying cnc lathes and winders and etc in several years, and then waiting several more years until I've got anything that's worth listening to... Where are those multiple lifetimes when you need them, huh? Good thing I started young!
Cheers man,
Clark
-
I've also had the same thought about the development of new tubes. There's really no more main stream application for them so little incentive for any big companies but if the audio industry looks to be large enough a small company specializing in their production might work out. I'm sure there are some great new exotic materials out there which are waiting to be exploited in new designs!
Carbon nanotubes might make for a nice speaker cone material, being only one atom thick it would be extremely lightweight.
Does NASA have a hi-fi devision?
-
I've also had the same thought about the development of new tubes. There's really no more main stream application for them so little incentive for any big companies but if the audio industry looks to be large enough a small company specializing in their production might work out. I'm sure there are some great new exotic materials out there which are waiting to be exploited in new designs!
Carbon nanotubes might make for a nice speaker cone material, being only one atom thick it would be extremely lightweight.
Does NASA have a hi-fi devision?
I'd really like to see carbon nanotube ply...
I am not sure whether or not Nasa has a HiFi division in the traditional sense, but many fields within oceanography do. For instance, I hope to someday get a pair of Orcas in the hands of cetacean researchers as a tool to better (?) understand whale calls. Im sure listening fatigue sets in the homes of field researchers pouring through weeks of data as well as those of us who go about their work while listening to music as well.
-
I think that Magico is using some kind of nanotube technology in some of their driver cones. And speaking of listening to whales, when I got to ride on a nuclear sub many years ago (remember that I live about a mile from the third largest nuclear arsenal in the country - Naval Base Kitsap) I was impressed that the speakers used pretty much throughout the USS Ohio were some semi-high end brand. Wish I could remember which one - what a sweet contract that would be!
You don't even want to hear the stories of what kinds of vacuum tubes used to be on the old subs they were decommissioning at the Bremerton shipyard - they all go into a big grinder these days.
-
I think that Magico is using some kind of nanotube technology in some of their driver cones. And speaking of listening to whales, when I got to ride on a nuclear sub many years ago (remember that I live about a mile from the third largest nuclear arsenal in the country - Naval Base Kitsap) I was impressed that the speakers used pretty much throughout the USS Ohio were some semi-high end brand. Wish I could remember which one - what a sweet contract that would be!
You don't even want to hear the stories of what kinds of vacuum tubes used to be on the old subs they were decommissioning at the Bremerton shipyard - they all go into a big grinder these days.
My NIXIE clock uses cold cathode tubes that were used in old Russian subs.
-
I dont know about the fascination with new high tech materials for creating sound. I had some B&W's with the Kevlar cones. I was not impressed. I sold them. Most high end companies still use good old paper for their cones for a reason.
I admit that there are some innovations that make a difference, but there is a limit to what hype I will buy into.
-
Of course a person can make a bad sounding driver with any material. And if you are an end user, you are free to express a desire to stick with a certain driver that works for you. There are some phenomenally good paper drivers out there. I've watched Meyer Sound drivers being made like scientific apparatus, and I have been gobsmacked by the midrange of Feastrex drivers. But I happen to think that the guys who are experimenting with exotic materials are worth watching too, as I have heard some pretty amazing stuff from the likes of Magico and TAD who use materials like carbon fiber and beryllium. I also happen to like my ATD Hypergraph midrange drivers a lot.
My impression is that the sonic virtue of a speaker is more about understanding the capabilities and limitations of the material than whether the material itself is good or bad, and I feel that this kind of post is not the most useful type in to archive here.
-
I don't know exactly what this means. I'm listening to Rodrigo y Gabriella Live In Paris now. As I adjust the volume to suit me the balance between my BA sub and the Orcas changes.
At higher volumes the sub is too loud, IMHO. I'm thinking this has something to do with the sub's inertia and the Fletcher-Munson curves. (esoteric enough?)
-
Here is a pretty amazing new material that Fujifilm is playing with: http://www.technologyreview.com/view/510986/bending-your-ear-fujifilms-flexible-speakers/ (http://www.technologyreview.com/view/510986/bending-your-ear-fujifilms-flexible-speakers/)
Regarding the Kevlar B&W's, I have some CM 1's and I love them for classical music playback. They are not great for jazz or rock, but classical they smoke. I have read that one reason B&W's sound so good with classical is that most symphonies are recorded in the UK and they almost use B&W's exclusively in the studios over there. On the same note, my paper coned Fostex's smoke the Kevlar B&W's when it comes to jazz.
-
I think about the only thing I'd change on the Orcas (as well as Nagas) would be the driver. Now please don't take that to mean I don't like it -- I do and feel it is a remarkable little driver. I'm alsonot talking about a larger one either. I'm talking the same basic design but built with things like a cast bronze basket, a washi or hemp cone, possibly a razor thin slice of nomex honeycomb for a spider, a super thin leather surround, and an alnico or hah-hah, permandor magnet, or field coil? :-)
Clark, how about a little contest -- the first guy to get a pile of unattached cash land in their lap and get an exotic replacement driver out, wins :-).
As for exotic fibers, thermoplastics, etc., I just have to pick up or suspend a piece of the stuff, tap it with my fingernail, a soft mallet and scratch it like a chalkboard and if it doesn't sound like a musical instrument (synthesizers and ovation guitars excepted) then it's out, regardless of how desireable it's other characteristics may happen to be.
And it just so happens that plyboo has some wonderful engineering properties and yet still manage to have a nice, pleasing tone to it.
-
built with things like a cast bronze basket, a washi or hemp cone, possibly a razor thin slice of nomex honeycomb for a spider, a super thin leather surround, and an alnico or hah-hah, permandor magnet, or field coil?
So a $3,500 3" driver, sounds fun!
-
A screaming deal compared to the $70k top of the line Feastrex 9 inchers :-).
But seriously, there really is no real ultra driver for this size other than perhaps the Bandors, but they are too inefficient and have severe max spl limitations, and absolutely have to be used in a sealed enclosure, not to mention a fairly high rolloff. In the right cabinet on a desktop though, they sound great.
Again, really nothing to complain about with the current drivers, just talking what-if here.
-
My impression is that the sonic virtue of a speaker is more about understanding the capabilities and limitations of the material than whether the material itself is good or bad.
A screaming deal compared to the $70k top of the line Feastrex 9 inchers :-).
But seriously, there really is no real ultra driver for this size other than perhaps the Bandors, but they are too inefficient and have severe max spl limitations, and absolutely have to be used in a sealed enclosure, not to mention a fairly high rolloff. In the right cabinet on a desktop though, they sound great.
Again, really nothing to complain about with the current drivers, just talking what-if here.
Yeah, I've gotta say that my only real consideration as a designer/builder is still steadfast -
Whether or not a speaker can make music in a really and truly pleasing manner over the long term of ownership.
To me its about creating speakers that are meant to be part of an entire stereo system that serves as a true "hearth" in the home. A source of warmth and enjoyment that serves a distinct purpose in peoples' daily lives - for both genders - the uninhibited enjoyment of music portrayed in its full glory.
Single Drivers/Single Ended Triodes have been my own elixer for many years now and with the long hours put into the business every day, I feel like we are on a veritable crusade against listeners' fatigue with Bottlehead/Blumenstein systems.
I still only see more avenues to explore with the Single Driver/Single Ended Triode design paradigm. It can't really get any simpler in terms of deleting moving/amplifying parts... So its REALLY EASY to refine these systems sufficiently to make great music and to then just enjoy them every day...
After playing around with many of the new 3" models that come out these days, I am still sticking with the mighty little FE83En because it is really well musically balanced in our Orca enclosure. Their only strength that seems oddly out of balance is the depth and profundity of the musical experiences they dish out considering the price.
Even the Feastrex drivers are not meant to be the "absolute" in any sense of physical transducer performance. They are just meant to be very, extremely pleasing to listen to over the long haul and have more fireworks and upper volume capability than the Orcas have. Otherwise, the Blumenstein "family sound" is what we are designing after.
Now while I might seem so adamant about only having my hand in making speakers that make music - and nothing else... I'll be damned if we haven't experimented with and sought out just about every available technological resource and/or trial and error technique to get our speakers to this point.
So I'm definitely not anti technology...I am just pro-balance of technology in concert with music. After all, I make speakers not violins... And violin makers make violins - not replicas of ancient forms of guitars from ancient greece, and etc.
--- So that's it for now until I've unplugged myself from the cyborg cords emanating from all my sophisticated cutting edge power tools ;)
Peace,
-Clark
-
Clark,
Stop making so much sense! ;-) Of course you are right on the money with all of this. BTW, I love the hearth analogy! Now what we need is a chestnut roaster that sits atop the amps.
-- Jim
-
Here's an interesting driver material made from naturally produced Microbial cellulose. Might be worth thinking about.
https://www.head-fi.org/t/568694/biocellulose-and-its-use-in-headphones-earphones-referring-the-recent-iem-example-vsonic-gr-07-r07
-
Hi all,
Bringing the discussion around from microbial cellulose and cast bronze to....plastic. To those who have or are considering Bottlehead bases from our shop: we wanted to get an idea of how many people would be interested in a bottom plate for them. We currently cut a kerf so that it's an option to install one on your own, but we're looking into offering a clear acrylic plate to protect the bottom while still letting you show off your handiwork. We would drill holes for ventilation. The acrylic plate will also allow us to use a bit bigger feet than the current felt ones.
Respond to the thread or send us a pm or email to let us know if you're interested so we'll have a better idea of how many to get for our first run.
By the way, many orders went out this past week, with even more shipping out soon!
Thanks!
Molly
-
I just assembled my new base...beautiful! I would love the acrylic plate to be able to add some cool feet.
-
Hi Molly,
I've got a couple of bases, 1 Crack and 2 Stereomour. I'd be happy to get a couple of clear base covers. Just post the costs.
Alonzo
-
Hi Molly,Glad to see this taking shape, but right now I don't think I'll be needing any. Still want to try out my footer idea first and then if it works, then I can still use the bottom plates, I'll order them.
-- Jim
BTW, my new bases arrived this weekend
-
Hi Molly:
I'm glad to hear that this is still in the works. I would be interested in a pair for my Paramounts. Thanks!
Gerry
-
Nice amp Gerry! Very cool looking! What tube is in the 12at7 spot?
-
I'm interested. Are these just for amps, but also the newer BeePree and/or FPIII/Eros size? Seduction sized?
-
So i added the blue jeans speaker cables to the mix. I listen to the Orcas at work. Everyday i turn it on it surprises me how good it sounds! They are really nice speakers...
-
Well, there is your problem, your speakers are upside down. Sorry, I couldn't help myself. This kind of thing seems to happen to i-whatever users posting. I guess the rest of the world is upside down to them.
-
Maybe he lives down under 8)...John
-
Nice amp Gerry! Very cool looking! What tube is in the 12at7 spot?
Good observation, what is that mysterious 12AT7? The answer is that it's not a 12AT7 at all. The amp is a very early Paramount. After I acquired it, I had it upgraded to the V1.1 Soft Start, so the tube is an early (1952) WE 396A/2C51. I like this tube a lot but johnsonad posted on the Paramount forum that he likes 1950s GE 5670s even more. A GE tube beating out a WE tube (or any brand for that matter) would be a first for me but anything is possible.
Getting this back on topic: I did neither the original build nor the upgrade but I did put the Blumenstein Audio base together! :)
Gerry
-
I too would be interested in a bottom plate but it would need some cut-outs to allow for easy access to the impedance switches installed on my S.E.X. amp. I think a laser cutter would be able to make the additional cuts quickly enough and with little additional hassel.
-
I too would be interested in a bottom plate but it would need some cut-outs to allow for easy access to the impedance switches installed on my S.E.X. amp. I think a laser cutter would be able to make the additional cuts quickly enough and with little additional hassel.
Yup - this I can do for you. Would a finger sized hole below each OPTransformer work ok for you?
I'm interested. Are these just for amps, but also the newer BeePree and/or FPIII/Eros size? Seduction sized?
Caffinator - these bases are for all Bottlehead products actually - the 6*10, 8*10, 10*12, and soon we'll have a 12*12 model for the BeePree. In the drop down menu in this shopping cart, it gives you the different sizes - but it is simpler than this leads on to be as many models share the same base size. For instance, the one we make for the SEX, Eros, and Foreplay are all the same size, actually - the 8*10. http://www.blumensteinaudio.bigcartel.com/product/wooden-chassis-for-bottlehead-tube-amplifiers
So i added the blue jeans speaker cables to the mix. I listen to the Orcas at work. Everyday i turn it on it surprises me how good it sounds! They are really nice speakers...
What a serious amp you've got there! What is that thing? Looks like MQ trannies hanging on for dear life!
Do you do video editing as your work btw?
Hi Molly,
I've got a couple of bases, 1 Crack and 2 Stereomour. I'd be happy to get a couple of clear base covers. Just post the costs.
Alonzo
Alonzo, we are getting our first sets here over the next week. I'll get the vent/access hole drilling pattern down, then add up basic time and materials and post them up on the site! They should end up being very affordable like the BH bases themselves.
-
Clark, that is the Pomme de Terre de Gourmet amp designed by PB. After being built he helped me convert it to parafeed with the MQ trannies a bit overboard:)
Ya i edit hockey video. Seattle needs a team!
Looking forward to the base plates - the base looks really nice...
Taran
-
All Bottlehead bases on order have been sent out. We're currently working on finishing up Orca and Sub orders now.
We have some material to play around with for the bottom plate and I'll be emailing everyone who has expressed interest once we figure out costs.
Thanks!
Molly
-
Hi Molly,
Just FYI, the bases I recently got are sweeeet! So where's Clark hiding? Haven't heard from him in forever.
-- Jim
-
Good to hear, Jim!
Clark has been cooking up some exciting new stuff and we're still working to ship out everything currently on order within the next 2-3 weeks. We're also going to be putting Orcas in stock for the first time ever.
So short answer: he's in the shop. ;)
Molly
-
ok. that's enough. I'm ordering a par of orcas, a sub and a couple of bases for a sex and a fp3 for the office. ultra near field. the sub will be under the desk, i guess. molly or clark. in the past I've had trouble when importing things that have wood in them for lack of certain stupid certification. ever heard of that before?
-
Xavier! Good move! You're going to like this.
-- Jim
-
I recieved my Orca last week but they still live in the box they were shipped in - we are week four in putting in a new kitchen and there is still dust everywhere. That and I still haven't had a chance to give my SEX. the final test check since building back in Jan. So they sit still wrapped as they left their mamma & pappa loving hands.
Aiming to turn that around over the next two weeks.
Stephen
-
Had an awesome Teutonic meal (brats und kraut, what else would be served when Blumensteins entertain Schmalles?) with Clarko and Molly last night. Lots of great conversation about exciting new stuff, that I'm sure Clark will share as his plans develop a little further.
Eileen and I are squeezing in time where available to get our Bottlehead/Blumenstein demo system completed. I redid the lighting in the front room - what I thought would be a two hour job took two days. We have a killer listening chair, the speakers and a new Stereomour are breaking in and we just need to get a new equipment rack in, paint, and acoustically treat the front wall. Hopefully we will have it all up and running in the next two or three weeks, at which point we will have an open house.
-
Yeah, Dan, so much fun having you and Eileen over for dinner! You sure taught me how to drink/make martinis the right way, that's for sure! I forgot to tell you about so many ideas and developments we've had!
We are taking a bunch of systems over to TreeFort music fest in Boise ID in the next few weeks, as an old freind of mine is the organizer and he wants Blumensteins and Bottleheads in the headliners' hotel rooms. I am pretty sure I've already got enough amps to accomidate the multiple systems.
Also, I've really wanted to have people over to hear our West Seattle demo system more soon here as well. We did a really impromtu open house last Friday and Saturday and it was really fun! We are having another get together tomorrow (Saturday) evening, and then a few more over the next few weeks except next weekend (9th) and Treefort's weekend (23rd).
Anyone interested in coming by needs to email us to get the actual address of our secret hideout, however.
We've really wanted to make ourselves available to have more folks over to hear the system throughout the week, but with the shop schedule as it is, its tough to have more than one or two days a week that we are able to turn the tools off. (I can't be making a racket while our guests are trying to just sit back and enjoy their music... not to mention the profound draw from the line voltage which can really affect the sound. ) Some time soon though, we'll figure out a solution to this though so we can have people by more days of the week and on a more impromptu basis.
Our appointments are really fun though - and we encourage people to bring a solid selection of their own music and we'll let you chill here for a long time to enjoy it all. Our appointments are actually one of the favorite aspect of the business for me - to just meet our customers face to face, to chat, hear great stories, audio and otherwise. It gets pretty lonely just running the shop all the time admittably so its really great to have folks by to just chill, listen to music, and remember what this whole pursuit is about, afterall.
Its so awesome that BottleHQ and BlumenHQ are both getting such solid demo systems put together - I can't believe I haven't gotten a chance to update everyone about this yet, but with the generous help of Paul B, we've gotten our Paramounts hooked up last week and oh my! What fantastic music makers!
We also got my old paramour II's converted to SR-45s and woowee! Its really hard to choose which is my favorite amp between the Paramount and SR45, and even the Stereomour really holds it own and provides something totally unique to the mix... extremely well balanced in its capablilities and still very captivating. And then there's the SEX 2.1 for which I am not sure if there is a peer anywhere else in the desktop/small space amp category. All we use at home now is just our SEX 2.0 amp and some early birch Orcas and it fills our vaulted ceiling/carpeted living room space (and the rest of the house) just fine.
So...all I can say is that we are WELL taken care of in the amp dept. by all these trusty bottlehead steeds. The "big" amps of the Bottlehead lineup remind of a good design philosophy - to try to get the most profound performance to come from the smallest, most unassuming package as is possible. I've heard alot of physically "big" 300B amps that couldn't hold a candle to the Paramounts, especially in the bass dept. And then the SR45... a work of art. I had no idea that the 45 tube could sound so good. I'm running EML globes in there and the sound is friggin religiously good. I can't wait to break all of these amps in fully over the next several months and give a full report.
Cheers,
Clark
P.S. Xavier - you got it. We'll work out the details by email tomorrow for you. The bamboo shouldn't be a problem to get certified for international shipment. It is FSC, etc. It is also not wood, as its a grass so perhaps thats even one more loophole we can pursue if there are some special duties and taxes ? Its also our first shipment to Mexico... and I'm so excited to get you in front of a pair of these!
-
Yeah one mistake that is bad to make is to try to match Doc martini for martini. I train waaay too much, and I feel strongly that nobody else should do so.
Those birch orcas and the old sex were sounding great last night. Today I got our Orcas running with the Stereomour and I decided to do a "test hang" of the rugs I want to use for the front wall treatment, even though the wall isn't painted yet. The minute the rugs went up the room calmed down a bunch and I could start to hear just what we are in store for when the Orcas are fully broken in. I gave bookkeeper Deb the iPod that remotes the mini music server I set up and she was crankin sum serious blues all afternoon while she worked. Also have a bid in on a silk parachute to hang as a cloud, emulating the one in our main listening room. That one made a really big difference in taming the room harshness created by our metal ceiling.
We're planning to shoot the system next week and I suspect that in a couple of weeks we will have a well broken in, killer B&B rig.
BTW Clarko, I will try to get a tape deck to your HQ soon, so you can roll some TP demos.
-
Hey Clark/Molly
Did you just make some big changes to your website? I've been having problems all day all over the web since my tablet updated it's browser.
-
thanks clark. we can discuss by email the shipping and all that. i have a nice plate amp from marchand. that should work nicely. the idea is to use the orcas in my desktop at the office. the rest of the rig will be a tim de paravicini modified technics 1520 that sounds very nice, a sex with mq iron in m3 that is amazing and, of course, ironbut's dolby decoder. i have about 200 barclay crocker tapes at the office. and sometimes i take a tape project tape for lunch time. i've been using headphones but i think speakers will be a better idea for the office.
my current speaker stash includes the big edgar horns with rca field coils, of course triamped with six ultra hot rodded paramounts, a pair of western electic 755as, a pair of quads esl 57s, a pair of siemens klangfilm eurodyns and the sony mdr r10 headphones. the quads are work in progress in that i haven't found the perfect amplifier, but i keep trying 'cause they do some things amazingly. i am about to try an ss amp (i have 25 channels of bottlehead amplification not counting preamps so ss is a no no but i' m still trying with the damn quads). the eurodyns i don't know if i'll keep. they're pretty good but don't do anything better than the big rig. if i had a second house, but they're worth a few bucks so... what all these speakers and heaphones share is a rich and tasty midrange which not many speakers can deliver. i'm not a soundstage freak and i can't stand typical audiophile sound. i can count other people systems that i've liked in the past with my two hands fingers. doc's system at vsac is included as is tucker's from the same show. i have a couple of friends with pretty decent systems based on my friends sadurni horns. romy the cat's system is in the list too! i can't stand digital. i tried the best with a pacific microsonics and crazy server and got tired of it. i did some recording with expensive classic equipment just to understand being on the other side of the chain. so i'm not your typical audiophile by any standard. and i'm indeed excited about trying these little wonders everyone here talks about. if they make it they will be the speakers i listen to most of the time. until you come with a feastrex design with the same size (and i sell the eurodyns!).
saludos
-
I am very curious how these speakers compare to my Horn Shoppe Horns.
-
Xavier,
Nice systems! Holy cow!
The Orcas + Sex on a desktop are a fantastic match.
I've heard the Edgar horns in a friend's system in the tri cities - Bill Van Winkle. His system sounded very nice when I visited him back when he owned them. Come to think of it, I do recall that the midrange was very nice... The Sony R10's also are a gorgeous midrange. What is coming to mind is the DEPTH of the midrange - they had plenty of lower midrange presence and this was the foundation for the upper frequencies floating around in the mix rather than the upper frequencies "striking" you per se. In regards to the R10's I've heard (not owned) several pair at length and every time was really striking. I learned a lot from these 'phones. I am also a fan of the sennheiser orpheus and have heard a few pairs of those as well. It seemed that there was variance between the sounds of them pretty heavily depending upon how well they were taken care of during their lifetimes. One pair had outright distortion in the highs as a result (I think) of having been overdriven somewhere along the line. Made in ca. 1990 These rigs are getting along in years now and I hope someone, somewhere comes up with something that (truly) trumps the orpheus and r10's. I am so tired of performance promises of new models that, yes, do somewhat outperform these classics in one way or another only to fall short in the most important realm of all - musicality. However - from only a brief time with the HD800's, I felt that they had alot of potential - especially for the price.
RCA compression drivers? Only heard the alnico versions in Pete Riggle's Po' Boys system and gosh do those things make music! We visited him back in October for the yearly get together of the PNW audio weirdo society. We'll be picking up one of his woody tone arms for use in the big rig that we are putting together over the summer here.
I've also been pretty gobsmacked by a well dialed in Cogent horn system at an RMAF and IIRC these were somewhat based on the RCA's (?)
Horn systems are so hard to compare because they vary so widely in quality of implimentation. I've heard some fantastic horn systems and others using almost the exact same componentry that were just ho hum. I think it takes a long time to get one tuned to the room, amps, cables, and luckily, unlike in other branches of high end speakerdom, there is actually tangible benefit to adjusting all these factors and sorting everything out.
The Feastrex drivers (and especially the highest end ones) are the only direct radiators that come close to the resolution of good compression drivers - they are extremely resolute and you have to power them correctly to get the right kind of high/low frequency mix. They juxtapose that same "thick, heavy" sound right along side a "light airy" sound that can really boggle the mind. They'll also physically punch you, which is rare for a direct radiator unless its a PA system.
Small Feastrex? I'm not sure how small ours will be.... but they'll be very good!
Cheers,
Clark
P.S. We just got our BeePree kit in and I'll be making some cuts for Bottlehead Bases for it and also for Dan's BeePree today and tomorrow time allowing - if anyone is interested in tagging onto the short run of them.
Well, I can't make this lunch break take too long here - I gotta get back to the coal mines... We are shipping out -literally- a ton of speakers this week and the next. Its the final hump for us before we are able to quickly follow all these backlogged orders up with a production run of several pairs of speakers that we will be able to sell from inventory (for the first time ever!).
So - wish us luck on this initiative! True progress like this for a company our size doesn't come for free i can assure you!
-
The problem with compression drivers is that one can usually hear the metal of the diaphragm and that's harsh and after some time one gets tired. That's one of the beauties of the RCA MI 1443B (or it's low voltage brother 1428B), they have fabric diaphragms. I suspect that is part of their magic. I guess the field coil magnet and the complicated phase plugs have something to do as well. Indeed these are the drivers on which the Cogent's are based off. I only heard the Cogents once and didn't like the system they were in, would love to try them in my system if only to better assess them.
Haven't heard the Orpheus or the HE90 (the headphone only. Orpheus is the system including the amp). Would love to. The main problem is they require push pull amps and I'm a die hard SET'er. But nothing I've tried gets even close to the R10s. I did try the HD800. I've had two pairs in the past. Also tried AKG K1Ks and Grado HP2s. Nada. The only thing that gets close are the Sony CD3Ks that share the biocellulose material of the R10s in the diaphragms. But the plastic enclosure kills half of the magic.
Molly: Thanks for your pm. I'll get back to you as soon as I end up deciding on a couple of things. One of them being whether I use my sub amp and my FP3 as it doesn't have speaker level inputs or your plate amp.
-
We are getting close to having our bottleblumen system ready to demo at BHQ-
-
Looks nice! I cant wait to get to work every morning cuz i get to watch hockey games while listening to my bottleblumen system! The orcas are a great speaker. I appreciate them more every day!
-
I noticed last night that this thread got stickyed.
Is the BottleBlumen breaking in all day?
-
Yes, the system is in the front room, which is also Eileen's office. So it's getting a lot of use. Been running most of the day, until I do my end of the day listening session on the big system upstairs.
-
So until the martini Blast-O-Rama (I hadn't heard you did that) the BottleBlumen is singing in the front.
-
This post is driving me crazy, because I want to hear what the Orca's sound like. I wish I lived driving distance to the Pacific North West, so I could take advantage of the setup at BH headquarters. I guess I will have to suffer in San Diego.
Is there anyone around San Diego with Orca's?
-
Ok. I decided to pull the trigger without first hearing the Orcas. This is based on what was written in these post and talking to Clark and others about them. They will replace my S.E.X.y speaker, and I
-
Brad,
If you like pinpoint images in a deep soundstage you are going to love them.
-
I can't wait. I have been using the S.E.X.y speakers that have Fostex 166e drivers and find that the single driver has a coherence through most of the frequency range that is very appealing to me, especially at lower volumes.
-
I can't wait. I have been using the S.E.X.y speakers that have Fostex 166e drivers and find that the single driver has a coherence through most of the frequency range that is very appealing to me, especially at lower volumes.
Once they are burned in I hope to come up and listen to your pair! :)
-
Ok. I decided to pull the trigger without first hearing the Orcas. This is based on what was written in these post and talking to Clark and others about them.
I hear ya. Since I live on a tiny island in the middle of the Mediterranean Sea, I have no chance whatsoever to listen to BottleBlumen combos or any other decent audio gear for that matter. So basically I just ordered a pre-owned SEX 2.1 (only a couple months mileage) five weeks ago, based on information I found on the net. What interested me in particular is the headphone amp/speaker amp combo. It has not disappointed so far... wait that's an understatement... Wow! Holy cow! How can something this inexpensive sound so good? What Hi-fi shops usually sell at this price point can now officially be classified as daylight robbery. I LOVE my SEX!
From what I understand, the people on these forums are of the no-nonsense type that don't particularly strike me as prone to hype. Last week I pulled the trigger on a pair of Orcas, as these little wonders receive so much positive feedback from the Bottlehead community and they seem to be in line with what I'm looking for in terms of soundstage, imaging, near field listening application, SEX(ual) synergy etc. Now I just hope the delivery man doesn't screw up and the import duty and VAT will not kill me before I get a chance to enjoy sonic nirvana! :)
-
Manis,
We have something in common. My S.EX. was upgraded in the middle of the Mediterranean on a Navy ship. Thought I don't think it meets the electrical safety standards. Actually it does, because it has a safety ground.
-
Finally receive my Orcas today, in good condition, after waiting for almost 3 months! Is this the first Orca in Indonesia?
Got about 8 hours of various music and they improve with the hours. I can say I like it a lot, imaging, sound stage width, depth and height is exceptionally good! And I'm sure it will also sound less harsh in the coming days together with other improvements.
Bravo Blumensteins!
-
Anyone have recommendations for the settings on the Sub woofer amp? I have the 100W version and a single sub with black paper cone. On the amp I have the Gain turned up a quarter and Freq. dial set at half way. Sounds good but I'm hoping someone has found a nice sweet spot where the Orca and Subs mesh the best!
Thanks
-
It's going to vary with each room. Aside from taking response measurements that can show you if certain room modes are being drive, it's best to just tune by ear. I usually start with the sub off, then turn it up to where I just perceive it's addition to the bass. In our room with a Stereomour the sub level knob is about 10 o'clock and the crossover frequency knob is at about 110 Hz. We have lightly stuffed the Orca ports to reduce a resonance peak we were measuring at 90Hz. Your room could be very different.
-
After listening to an array of music genres on the Sub + Amp I've found that there is no single setting on the gain dial which works best. I do find that the frequency response control sounds pretty good set around the 110 Hz. My set-up is in a near field application on my desk so room effects are less of a concern.
-
Blumenstein used to have a starting point somewhere on the site. But I don't remember where.
-
Im on the road still (minor car trouble), so ill have to get back at greater length once im back in town but i can give a few quick answers for y'all.
I find that in order to deal with room nodes/resonance peaks, to play around with pulling the speakers out into the room a bit more, adjusting their toe in and the kinds of things that are behind them usually makes a more beneficial difference than to stuff the port (which tends to get the sound a bit lean for my likings). Upon full break in, the 90hz region settles down and you end up getting a bit lower bass out of just the orcas themselves to around 75hz once the FS of the driver fully drops down from the surround and spider completely loosening up.
One thing i can say from experience is that if you find yourself constantly fiddling with the controls to find the best bass per genre, then the system just isnt broken in yet, or perhaps it is not in the right position in your room to begin with (or you may be going for too high of a subwoofer level which will make it stick out in the mix alot more than its intended to).
However, the Orcas are intended to be a modular design in many ways, (including the ability to stuff the port). So while this tuning technique or that may not be not to my particular liking doesnt mean its the wrong thing to do for your space (or tastes). The point that i would most like to drive home is that they can definitely be played with to fit into a variety of situations with acceptable compromises depending upon the various room/amplifier setups.
Firstly, the most important point of adjustment is the distance from the front wall (or any similar surface) to the port on the back of the orca fullrange. This can be adjusted incrimentally and plays a huge role in being able to adjust for room modes and other idiosyncracies to each acoustic space (and also to get the right "richness" to the mix of bass/treble in the orcas. I usually recommend 1"-28" distance.
In our demo space i pull them out exactly two feet from the wall to get ideal midbass punch in that space (considering that i am using a sub as well). The speakers are roughly (iirc) 9-10ft apart and are slightly toed in ~5 degrees. The space is 13x25 and they are setup on the short wall.
In the case of a single sub, I place it right beside the left speaker (the one that is in the corner), and with the port facing out into the room (which is necessary because of the rather live nature of the corner of the room in our space). I set the dials at 9:00 for the gain and 10:10 for the frequency. This gives a nice "easy" sounding bass without boominess or undue power and it works with prettymuch every genre of music without adjustment. The RTA has confirmed these settings as well. Granted, it did take me a while to first find these settings and placement. I do tend to find myself adjusting the levels on a single sub system more frequently than on my double sub system as the integration is inherently a bit better with the double subs (for acoustic reasons, not for lack of power). For the double subs, the dials are in roughly the same spot because each sub amps' high level input section is only getting one channel instead of two, and you have two amps and two drivers working which balances things out to the same relative level. Once i get home ill put up some photos of what this looks like.
In rather damped/carpeted rooms, i have found myself turning the gain all the way up to 11:00 and the frequency as far as noon even in some cases. Most people find themselves somewhere in the middle of all this. But my steadfast advice is to echo Dan- start low and come up.
In the shop stereo we use just a sex amp and orcas w/no sub. For space reasons i push the orcas all the way against the wall and spread ~14ft apart and they make lots of bass and respectable volum for the whole 25x25 space. I have used a sub down there in the past and the settings were a bit higher than the one upstairs. 9:10 gain and 10:30 for the frequency because theres alot of stuff in the shop, though its mostly hard surfaces (lotsa orcas)
In summary, the four main points of adjustment on the orca system are meant to be really easy to access, and most importantly, are meant to work together rather than seperately: distance from the front wall, toe in (if any) and of course the subs' placement and sub amps' settings, which should usually be kept easy to reach so you dont have to bend over to be able to adjust the dials.
Cheers!
Clark
-
Thanks Clark, and sorry about that port stuffing thing. ;) Listen to Clark, since with only a week of play time our system is obviously not fully broken in. I promise to shoot it again in a few weeks and readjust the setup. I will say that one really excellent thing about the Orca/sub setup is that it measures so smooth that it is super easy to interpret the results and this would be a great system with which to learn about setting loudspeakers up in rooms using a good analyzer. You can measure just the Orcas and see how amazingly flat the response is. Then measure just the sub to get an idea of what it is doing in the room. Then measure both together and it will be easier to interpret how they are integrating.
And to add a datapoint I think our Orcas ended up with the backs 14" from the front wall, which is carpeted, and they are slightly toed in relative to the listening position, which is the third vertex of an 8' equilateral triangle (speakers at the other vertices). It's sort of a "semi-near field" system, that should be similar to a lot of apartment sized listening room setups.
-
I have my Orca full ranges flancking either side of my iMac, about 6" away the display and about 10" from the wall behind my desk. I toe in/out the speakers depending on if im sitting at the desk to work or if I roll my chair back to listen at a greater distance. The sub below the desk centered between the speakers with the cone facing out. I have not played with the position of the sub yet but I will try it rotated and tucked into the corner of my room. I think the Orca's would benefit from being raised up a few inches to get the cones at an elevation closer to my ears.
In all the sub has done a great job in adding body to the sound. I've been happy to hear it slam with authority while playing Seven Lions and add a gentle presence with Bach's concertos!
-
Dan - no worries man! I think of the Orcas as the ideal Single Driver eXperimenters' setup (to go with your Single Ended experimenters' amp... And port stuffing does do some interesting things to the power handling... So yeah, I fully encourage playing with them as they can do some interesting things.
For instance, I wired up 4 pair of Orcas into a series parallel line array for the afterparty of Treefort this weekend... the paramounts were just crazy good until the party got too rowdy and I had to switch to solid state to keep an expensive dance move from taking place :)
No sub, and I swear we were getting 50hz bass extension with dynamics I've never heard from the little buggers before. Lots of fun.
Thomas -
Sweet setup man! Yeah we have really been wanting to migrate to Apple computers to get a greater productivity and a bit better sound quality when using external dacs (?) Do they work for you alright?
Indeed, the sub might open up a bit if you stuck it in the corner - and it might give you a little more legroom as well at the very least.
Your system sounds like it would make a great photo op, and we have some slightly blemmed desktop stand parts we could cut you a deal on if you'd like to round out the system. For some reason only a few people have bought them so far and I think it is a matter of showing people how cool they look/work in practice.
Cheers!
-Clark
-
For instance, I wired up 4 pair of Orcas into a series parallel line array for the afterparty of Treefort this weekend... the paramounts were just crazy good until the party got too rowdy and I had to switch to solid state to keep an expensive dance move from taking place :)
Now we are talking! Been trying to get you to do that for a year! How did it work out?
-
I'm gonna hook it up this way at home in the next few days. I can't believe that I didn't try it out earlier. The only thing that I'm watching out for is to see if there is any weirdness in the upper bands/vertical dispersion. And if it ain't too bad, then I am definitely trying it out with 16 Pr. in series parallel. Even if it isn't true "HiFi," its still a pretty cheap pair of speakers considering how friggin' loud they get in the bass dept. It sure sounded nicer than any PA system we listened to that weekend.
-
I can't believe that I didn't try it out earlier.
Me either. I won't ask much for my royalty. ;^)> Peej was showing me the web page for an array by Don Keele a while ago, that defies convention and arranges the drivers in a convex arc like a PA array, rather than the usual "focused array" concave one (which I happen to like a lot because it solves some of the treble issues, even though there is a tiny sweet spot). Egad, 72 tweeters per side...
http://www.audioartistry.com/products_CBT.htm (http://www.audioartistry.com/products_CBT.htm)
Maybe you can cook up a flexible rack for a stack of Orcas - bend them the way you like best.
-
Clark some stands would round it out nice and I love taking pictures. I've spent a few nights taking some pretty shots of my Orca's under different lighting.
Here's a bit of eye candy.
-
Thomas, wow nice system! Alot more attractive than my office for sure!
And I am glad that you put up those photos - as it turns out, the set of cables that we are sending you tomorrow should take care of the bass tuning issues you were experiencing...
With our new "y cable" arrangement you will be running the signal into and out of the same binding posts on the sub amp, actually - and I can see from the pictures that you are currently running your speaker wires into the "from amplifier" section of binding posts and out of the "to speaker" section binding posts from the sub amp.
Hooking your system up like this actually engages an unwanted 125hz 6db/oct high pass filter that is part of the stock Dayton sub amp, actually... This high pass filter is actually just a cheap electrolytic capacitor wired between the + and - posts of the "to speakers" set of binding posts, and while I've found that it sounds "ok" once the capacitor is broken in, it will open your sound up a WHOLE lot more to bypass these cheap caps and run the Orcas full range via our "y-cable" arrangement, which gives you access to the clean, unfiltered, full range signal of your SEX amp whilst augmenting only the lowest end with the subs.
(For the passive subwoofer connection, you still just wire a simple banana to banana speaker cable from the binding posts (that we add) on the back of the subwoofer amp to the binding posts on the passive subwoofer.)
And if there are any more folks out there with their subwoofers wired up this way, I'm so sorry that we were not clearer to you about our preference for this method prior to shipping you your subwoofer!
Ok - Confused? A picture is worth a thousand words - This is a "y-cable" one set of ends goes to the amplifier, the other set of ends goes to the Orca. The set of banana plugs in the middle are the ones that get plugged into the sub amp.
For all intents and purposes the Orcas are wired to the stereo amplifier with a single continuous cable considering that this "y cable" is soldered at each banana plug, including the banana plugs in the middle.
Before this arrangement, we tried a few different methods. All sounded good, but came with varying degrees of (in)convenience.
We are happy to give a significant discount to any legacy customer who would like to switch over to this new Y-cable arrangement if they find themselves in any state of frustration with their current speaker cabling arrangment (whether you bought your cable from us or from someone else - we just want you to have access to the newest (and simplest) method that we've invented here).
All we need to know in an email is:
For the Y-Cable construction-
- the distance of your main stereo amplfier to your subwoofer amplifier
- the distance from your subwoofer amplifier to your Orcas
Banana-Banana connection-
- the distance from your subwoofer amplifier to your Orca Sub(s)
We typically locate the subwoofer amplifiers close to our stereo amplifier, but it is easy enough to "turn the y cable around" which will allow you to place the subwoofer amplifier closer to the speakers. For this reason, we typically recommend a 4 foot minimum "short leg" of the Y, so that it could at least go from the floor to the Orca
The only caveat is that you should never wrench the binding posts on your sub amp too hard. I have never had one break off, but it does seem like something that could potentially happen if you were really rough on them by yanking your speaker cables around.
-
Another photo:
a double sub setup only uses one set of input posts on each sub amp.
-
A single subwoofer setup, on the other hand runs both channels through boths sets of input posts on teh sub amp. The "sum to mono" section of the sub amp is actually very effective at getting a clean mono bass channel from the stereo input.
-
Lots of subs going out this weekend and next week. We will finally be caught up with all orders through the middle of February as soon as these system go out! (28 subwoofers shown in the photo alone)
We are so thankful to everyone who has stuck with us and believed in us all along. It has been so fun and we feel so priviledged to be building so many speakers and spreading the pure joy that is these beautiful music systems so far and wide. We are really looking forward to see what the rest of 2013 has in store!
-
Thanks for the clarification! I did not see a detailed description outlining how to setup the sub as you described. All my speaker cables are BJC with banana terminations so I won't be able to bypass the filter until your specialized cables arrive. I did rotate my sub 90 degrees and put in in the back left corner of desk which has helped the sub to blend a bit more into the rest to frequency response. It still sounds great overall so the new cables will just be an extra treat!
-
tdogzthmn,
I like banana plugs, especially the dual plugs, more than most guys. I find they are handy, won't short the output and allow me to swap absolute phase quickly.
But... I would prefer spade lugs on the speakers with banana plugs on the amps. That allows quick phase swapping and a tight connection at the speakers. Those lugs on the back of my Orcas are good and tight with spades under them.
-
I like the new cables, that's a clean look!
-
I like the new cables, that's a clean look!
Thanks, Paul! Couldn't have engineered such a great solution for this without your help and advice.
-
Here's a bit of eye candy.
That is some nice set up you got there, Thomas, well done! I can't wait till I receive my Orcas. Soon leaving Seattle hopefully and then over the ocean and the Mediterranean to yours truly :)
-
El,
Thanks a million for your patience. Judging by Demsy's and Tamin's (back in Nov) longer than expected transit time (via Priority International USPS to Indonesia) I hope it won't be too long for you to wait considering that they are going to Malta....but I can promise you that they are certainly worth the wait!
We should start an "Island Dweller's Blumenstein Audio Owners Association" IDBAOA. We've got the Vashon, Bainbridge, and Vancouver Island branches going full swing in this little corner of the country! Would you believe we sent a set to Tasmainia a few months ago? Something about Island Time must gravitate people to the more relaxed and calm sound of the Orca...
As you can see, I've got them predrilled in case you'd ever like to add stands to the mix (like you'd asked). (don't worry, the drill holes don't poke through the cabinet wall)
...and they, along with alot of wires, a pair of Orcas on stands, and the first few Orca/Sub Fullranger systems are going in the mail tomorrow, to be followed by several more large Orca systems by the end of the week.
Cheers,
Clark
-
Just got back from a week long trip and boy did the orcas sound so good when i got back. So smooth, soothing to the ears.
I swapped out some Modwright teflon coupling caps for some broken in vcap teflons in my 6FM/Y7 amp. More life, more high frequency extension and detail.
-
Thanks a million for your patience. Judging by Demsy's and Tamin's (back in Nov) longer than expected transit time (via Priority International USPS to Indonesia) I hope it won't be too long for you to wait considering that they are going to Malta....but I can promise you that they are certainly worth the wait!
Actually the shipping time to Indonesia wasn't bad at all, it took less than two weeks for the package to be delivered at my home. The package left on 03/07/2013, arrived at my freight forwarder in Singapore on 03/14/2013 and was delivered to me on 03/20/2013. It was shipped from the US to Singapore using USPS Priority and from Singapore to Jakarta by air freight.
I placed my order on late December 2012, so it took less than 4 months before delivery. But surely worth the wait. I have now around 80 hours on them, and I can say for sure, that there is no need to wait until 400 hours to really enjoy the Orcas. You know from the first hours that you're listening to a very musical pair of speakers.
-
Just got a used pair of Orcas serial #350. My old ones had the black plastic panel on the back. The new ones definitely have more bass weight. A good upgrade! Off to Ball and Buck tonight to check out the BlumenBottle pieces:)
-
Something must be in the air -- today I went down to my office, thought I heard something a bit different, turned up the volume a bit (the Orcas are running 24/7 with the sr-45s) and whoa! what happened? Not sure, but it is good... very, very good! I'm at about 200 hours now, still running without subs, and today, aside from even smoother, more coherent sound and soundstage (incredible already) the bass had some real wieght to it.
Ok, that's it, tomorrow the v-cap CuTFs go in the SR-45s. I had planned on putting the Nagas back in that system today, but between the sound from the Orcas making such a quantum jump and my back/sciatic nerve not fully healed from last week's injury, I just decided to leave well enough alone.
Of course the BH custom preamp is also coming along nicely as well and taken as a whole, this system is already bordering on magnificient -- still sourced by a low cost Virtue CDP at this point too. I'm hoping for vinyl this weekend...
-- Jim
-
Nice Jim! Sounds like you will have an amazing system! I saw the Orca subs live for the first time at ball and buck today. Very compact! Much smaller than i realized. Unfortunately they didn't have the subs hooked up. Everything looked really cool thought between the new style bh top plates to the blumenstein bases...
-
I'm liking the look of the site. Just that there is no link to the products page.
-
Brad, we'll be tidying up the website/stitching things up over the weekend. Feel free to call us with any questions in the mean time.
Best,
Molly
-
Molly,
The search function works great and got me to the information that I was looking for.
Thanks
-
El,
Thanks a million for your patience. Judging by Demsy's and Tamin's (back in Nov) longer than expected transit time (via Priority International USPS to Indonesia) I hope it won't be too long for you to wait considering that they are going to Malta....but I can promise you that they are certainly worth the wait!
We should start an "Island Dweller's Blumenstein Audio Owners Association" IDBAOA. We've got the Vashon, Bainbridge, and Vancouver Island branches going full swing in this little corner of the country! Would you believe we sent a set to Tasmainia a few months ago? Something about Island Time must gravitate people to the more relaxed and calm sound of the Orca...
As you can see, I've got them predrilled in case you'd ever like to add stands to the mix (like you'd asked). (don't worry, the drill holes don't poke through the cabinet wall)
Thanks for the update and the photos, Clark. I also owe thanks to Molly for her dedicated assistance.
It was a delight to see that Facebook post with my Orcas showing in their full glory!
And yes, I'd be happy to join the IDBAOA ;)
My <$2000 set up will be nearing completion and, needless to say, I'm anxious to hear what it can do... When I receive my Orcas, I'll be sure to post some pictures and impressions here! (Checking the USPS tracking site has become somewhat of an addiction as of late. ;)
-
I picked up my finished pair of subs yesterday and put them in my system! (powered with 2x 250w dayton amps)
Also, i changed the input resistance on my seduction because something just wasn't sounding right - some mid notes just sounded super quiet with the Orcas. I put it to 1kohms - using my Dynavector 20x2H i had been using 2.2k. Dyna just specs >1k on their website and poking around online it looks like a lot of people use the min and that sounds good to them. Here's the thing - the balance of sound coming from my old speakers with fe207 drivers sounded ok. I guess having too high a value was taming some of it's midrange shout! The Orcas now sound super balanced fed from the turntable now.
Been listening to the new setup and just wanted to say - hell yes! :)
-
Kerry,
How many hours do you have on the Orcas? I broke mine in for 400 hours using a SS amp and playing them louder than I would listen. Well, I did listen whenever I wanted, but the rest of the time they were on "break in."
I think it will make a difference.
Enjoy the music!
-
I've probably only got a little more than 100 hours so far with my pair. Still have a long way to go... I don't really have a place to set them up and run. Gotta do it the old fashioned way!
-
I've not kept accurate track of my hours logged on the Orca's but I expect it's around 200 hours time so far. Can't say I notice any huge changes but it still sounds thoroughly great. Once I get new Y cables and re-tune the sub I'll have a more accurate picture of how things sound.
-
There are metal "Y-adapters" which are really good. I have a pair of Monster. You can find them at places like Audio Adviser and Music Direct.
-
It's kind of like fine wine (I'm a wine DIYer too). In my youth I wasted a lot of energy trying to find out exactly how aged I liked my wine, and then trying to drink it when it was just right. Now, I have come to terms with wine - and speakers - as living things, with admirable but different qualities at various stages of their journey.
I'm not so generous with capacitors, which IMHO must be beaten into submission before they are fit for civilized company.
-
Got the new cables connected and it's easy to tell the Orca's are working in true full range. They are more open sounding and detailed in the upper treble. I'll need to revisit the sub controls to get it dialed in. Thanks Clark and Molly for all your efforts!
-
I am loving my orcas more and more. They just seem to ger better every day.
Questions: can i use a sex amp base for a paramour 2? What is the difference between the bases that are all 8x10?
Have you tried enabling the drivers?
Thanks for such great speakers! Taran
-
Hi Teran,
Bottlehead or Blumenstein bases both are universal for a given plate size. I've got a foreplay, eros, and s.e.x. 2.1 top plate each in blumenstein bases.
I did speak to Clark about the Enabling some time back and his conclusion was that the enabling was a good thing for the FE-126 drivers, but the fe-83en in the Orcas is best left as is..
I have to say that I find it really interesting how many people with such varied systems and listening preferences just find the Orcas to be so wonderful and musical. Of course there is no such thing as a speaker that is right for everybody in every situation, but still, the appeal of the Orcas just seems to be a lot broader than probably any other speaker I've ever encountered.
Some day I'd like to hear them with a really good Class A SS amp like one of the Firstwatts, as well.
-- Jim
-
If there are any lingerers who have been waiting to pull the trigger, we have items in stock and on sale right now, all in caramelized bamboo:
Orcas on Floor Stands
Orca Subwoofer
Subwoofer Amplifier
S.E.X. base
http://blumensteinaudio.com/sale-items/ (http://blumensteinaudio.com/sale-items/)
We had the chance to update the website/online shop over the last couple of weeks and uploaded photos of the new Floor Stands, which now have 1" thick bamboo bases with feet, and a groove cut into the back of the stand column, 1/4" thick, that allows you to run your speaker cable down it and then through a hole cut into the base.
Also, an update on the bottom clear acrylic plates for amp bases: We have some samples headed our way and I'll send out an email to everyone who expressed interest with photos and costs.
Thanks!
Molly
-
Just received my Orcas. Stunning!
The cables I ordered with them were not included, unfortunately, but that will be resolved without hassle. Thanks, Molly. I managed to find some crappy wire I had lying around.
A total noob question to anyone who might know this. I'm playing some Eva Cassidy - Wayfaring Stranger straight out of the box and the bass sounds a bit boomy. Is that because everything has to settle in? Or maybe it's the wire?
Another noob question, I have not touched the impedance switches on the SEX 2.1 impendance switch board at all. What is the best setting for the Orcas?
Thanks guys!
-
Manis,
Yes, just give the orcas some time -- things will get audibly better every soo often and the bass will really start to gel about 30-50 hours.
Try the s.e.x. at 8 and 4 ohms and see what you prefer.
HTH,
Jim
-
Right on, Jim.
Those are the exact time frames ive been observing. 30-50 hrs to get pretty close to the final character, and then after around 400 to acheive the full glory of their disappearing act/ profundity of their bass (which is the precise "WTF" behind why they are called "Orcas").
They can go through some pretty funny phases sonically until the ~40 hr mark. They can swing between sounding a bit muffled to boomy to bright and then back again before they settle down and start to really warm up at 40 hrs. We put anywhere between just a few all the way up to tens of hours on them in the shop before they get packed. So depending upon where they were by the time we ship them (and how many extremes of weather/altitude systems they travelled through otw to you), you can bet that they -will- have some settling in to do once you've hooked them up to voltage.
One more note is that they do need a good thrashing some time after 50 hrs to get fully loosened up in the bass register as well. Those little 3"ers have a surprising excursion before they bottom out (at which point, you should back off slightly from the volume knob out of courtesey to the cone. A little bit of (calculated) bottoming out here and there won't destroy the cones.
I've been really happy these last several months especially with the Orca Pod floorstanders going out with the new Y cables and 250 watt sub amps. I'm hoping to film a little instructional video here soon about how to get this system properly set up and dialed in, as they are a really versatile compact high end speakers thats sounds way bigger and more coherent than they have any right to. This initiative will have to wait though until i'm not distracted by all the finishing touches to the systems we've got shipping out this week.
Cant wait to start playing with the line array Orca pod in the prototyping lab here soon though...
Jim, indeed we too have been surprised (and encouraged) greatly by the wide appeal of the mighty Orcas. We've got people from age 7-90, on all 7 continents, male and female, people who are permanently wheel chair bound and professional cyclists who race against Lance Armstrong, cancer patients and survivors, the blind and the nearly deaf, of all walks of life - janitors and CEOs, serious audiophiles, heavy metal bassists, hipsters and rednecks and hippies and creationists and scientists and - wheew! You name it.
Jim - one more thing i just noticed is that you managed to walk your way through our new online checkout system for the old Sex base we had listed in our b-stock page which is encouraging to me about our website's accessibility - always open to suggestions on that front because we've started trying to encourage folks with disabilities (and military) with a 10% discount, which should hopefully take the edge off for the folks who really need to heal themselves with music.
Thinking about the future, I cant wait to see who I get to meet over the next several hundred pair, but I'm sure that none of them will be quite as awesome, supportive, friendly, patient, and good-advice-giving as our community of To-The-Core Bottlehead builders who've been a major aspect of our clientelle this past year especially.
Peace,
Clark
P.s. I did hear a first watt F5 recently through the Orcas and i brought by my Stereomour for comparison. The F5 sounded fantastic - some of the best balanced out solid state ive heard through the Orcas and ive definitely heard my fair share. The Stereomour had the edge (for everyone in the room) on that ever elusive aspect called "musicality," yet the F5 had as you'd expect, some of the "physical" benefits of solid state in that it did get louder and cleaner, but it was necessary to get to such loud levels to get to that benefit and i myself am just not that kind of listener anymore, though i do respect the needs of those who prefer such a sound via the way I've engineered the Orcas to have an ability to "chameleon" their way around the sound of a variety of amps and usually have something mildly optimistic" to say about the music itself at the very least. Like the way my own mind works i guess (?) I don't think I could ever be a proper audio reviewer ;)
-
Clark,
You will probably be glad to hear The Modern Lovers sound pretty darn good after just 14 hours of break-in on Orca pair #425 over here in Malta. :)
Well he was only 5'3"
But girls could not resist his stare
Pablo Picasso never got called an asshole
Not in New York
The island never sounded this good...
-
Dude, we love The Modern Lovers! Roadrunner!
-
Abominable Snowman.
Jonathan Sings.
-- Jim
-
Hi Teran,
Bottlehead or Blumenstein bases both are universal for a given plate size. I've got a foreplay, eros, and s.e.x. 2.1 top plate each in blumenstein bases.
Actually, Jim, we do a different orientation for the SEX/eros/foreplay/reduction 8*10 and the paramour/paramount 8*10 - the screws are placed on the "sides" when the tubes are towards the front. So in the case of the paramour bases, the front is the long end, so the screws go into the short ends.
I'll toss up a photo here when I get a chance
-
Hi Molly,
Oh, that's interesting -- didn't know that. I guess it's a matter of whether you'd rather see the screw holes or the little squares from the saw kerfs. I myself think I like the look of some walnut rounded top wood plugs in the screw holes., but it's great that you let people choose. Maybe describe the difference styles by where the screwo holes are?
BTW, it looks like a 5/16" plug fits nicely.
-- Jim
-
Clark,
For which impedance is your S.E.X. wired with the Orcas? Jim suggested using 4 or 8 ohm, but I was wondering what you guys were using? And what is the reason for having exactly that value?
Thanks!
-
Hi Herman!
Our SEX 2.1 and 2.0 are wired for 8 ohms. Ive not tried the impedance switches yet as ive got my transformers hard wired with bjc to the binding posts which i thought would make a tiny difference for me in terms of sonics (removed headphone jack wiring). Thats the only modification ive made to the sex amp - It did make a tiny itty bitty difference, but probably not worth the hassle imo. The bone stock sex amp is great.
The driver in the Orca is an 8 ohm voice coil, so its best to try it on the 8 ohm transformer tap first. As jim mentioned, the 4 ohm tap may work as well so you can try that also.
Cheers,
Clark
-
We just put up a poll about our RnD on our Facebook page - feel free to weigh in!
https://www.facebook.com/BlumenUltraFi
-
More options, I like it! But that's a large jump from the bottom to the next one up.
-
I don'tt hve a facebook account so I apparently can't vote, but I'll choose number 1.
Bring back the Nagas :-)
-- Jim
-
Hi Molly,
I just voted but felt the need to add a comment since, as with surveys, it's all in how the question is phrased and in this case found myself waffling when trying to select one of the given options.
-Randy
-
Hi all,
We have worked really hard to get our backlog down, and finally, we are here. Right around a month for most anything ordered. We are excited about this accomplishment - and are setting our sights high for the rest of this year.
We've gotten in some big system orders the past few weeks and are currently moving them steadily through the shop.
We also have several pairs of Orcas, in both Natural and Caramelized bamboo that will be coming in stock early next week. This is the first time this has happened in over two years! Holy cow! Once they are listed as "in stock" means that they ship in ~a week instead of in ~3-4.
We still have a B-Stock pair of the lighter caramelized Orcas on stands listed on our site...- they are nicely broken in by now having been hooked up to FM for several months before we even listed them.
http://blumensteinaudio.com/sale-items/caramelized-orcas-floor-stands
That's $250 off!
Well, that's it for now.
P.S. - Jim, btw, it would be really tough to bring the Naga back seeing as we werent charging enough for them and are now working on developing a line array and some bigger FR projects - that will be at the price points the Naga's should have been at... I really do love your speakers though - the best Naga system I've heard to date!
Randy, regardless of what we release in the coming year, nothing touches the beautiful balance of price/performance that the Orca line strikes, and we still expect the Orcas to be the core of the business for quite some time to come. We just love building and listening to them. Our daily drivers.
-
Clark:
What are the advantages of the new Sub Amps over the old ones?
-
Hi Greg,
Its funny you should ask, as we goofed on our inventorying last week and had to send off our last set of SPA 250's to a customer until we get more in the mail this week.
I did have a few people (old and new to our speakers) come by to listen in the mean time with the SA100's we had lying around and played them with single and double subs and I did find myself mentally comparing notes on the two sub amps.
There are a few differences in the sound, however the gain and frequency settings are almost identical between the two amps.
- 9 o clock for the gain
- 10:20-10:30 for the frequency
This is the case whether you are using single or double subwoofer setups. These settings are definitely negotiable - I've got a setup in our guest bedroom at home which is a heavily carpeted room and that sub amp needs a solid bump on the gain knob to sound right in the mix.
Now, while the two amps have almost the same measurable bass levels on my RTA when they are given the same settings, subjectively I feel like the 250's have more headroom which results in them being harder to localize in the overall mix. It feels weird to admit that 150 more watts to the bass speakers results in ANY discernible difference considering that we are still using just 10 watts on the full rangers. But - considering that bass power consumption goes up exponentially as we drive down in the octaves, and we are mating conservatively rated class A+ tube power with typically optimistically rated class AB solid state... then there you go.
One other difference is that the SPA250's do not have a turn on "thump" like the SA100's. This was more for an annoyance factor than anything. For apartment dwellers already concerned about bass travelling I don't want to give any more unnecessary "door slams" every time they turn on their system. Though this is avoidable if you just manually switch the amps off with their power switches first.
One other "convenience" reason is that the SPA 250 is international voltage compatible, whereas the SA100 is not.
The crossover slope is a bit different as well. The SA100's have a 12db/oct slope, whereas the SPA250's have a 24db/oct slope. This seems to result in slightly fewer upper bass frequency cancellations between the Orcas and Subs, though this has proven very difficult to measure.
Now - the original reason that I opted for the SPA250's was when I started measuring the roll off characteristic of the Orca fullrangers themselves when used with a pairs of subs, and I found that, once broken in, the Orcas themselves were steeper than I had previously realized - hovering around ~24db/oct high pass.
So the 24db low pass and ~24db high pass creates a matching roll off character for the speakers - usually a good characteristic for a formalized 2-way system to have.
The thing is, though, that the single sub setups are a lot less sensitive to the SA100 vs. SPA250, actually. I'd officially call it a toss up between the two sub amp models if you are using a single sub. But for the double subs, there is a sonic advantage to the SPA250's because of the crossover slope.
Along with the Y-cables, which do away with one more mechanical connection between the amps and speakers, all of this has resulted in a really nice uptick in the overall quality of bass to our systems these days.
If folks are interested in getting the 250's and Y-cables, by all means do so. It is a pretty modest, yet solid upgrade. (And you don't have to ship your whole system back to do so).
Now - one "free" tweak I wanted to make everyone aware of is that the 400hrs+ on your drivers that Jim Rebman suggested over a year ago does do something tangible.
Yesterday I pulled one of the "shop pair" of Orcas that have been played hard every day for ~6 months overcoming tool noise and dishing out Jimi Hendricks, Dub Reggae, and the like. I hooked them up to our big rig upstairs, and holy cow do they sound nice! These are bona fide fatigue-free speakers for long listening sessions. The difference between the ~10hr to ~50hr short term broken in drivers we regularly ship to customers and 1000 hour long term broken in ones like these (same exact cabinets) is just shocking. Now - maybe the BeePree + Paramounts might be helping to illuminate this difference in a way I haven't heard yet... but that's a whole 'nother story for a different thread.
Cheers,
Clark
-
Thanks Clark,
Couldn't ask for a more complete answer.
Are the Y-cables different than the stacking bananas that i have?
-
Clark:
Found the pic on the Facebook page, the cables are different.
-
I just got my Orcas and can't believe how small the drivers are. The finish is fantastic.
I've got them hooked up without the subs right now. They sure do put out a lot of sound for their size and only 3.5 watts. I can only imagine how they will sound once they have 400 hours on them.
-
Brad,
Congrats! Give them 30-50 hours and then get Aaron over there.
-- Jim
-
I just got my Orcas and can't believe how small the drivers are. The finish is fantastic.
I've got them hooked up without the subs right now. They sure do put out a lot of sound for their size and only 3.5 watts. I can only imagine how they will sound once they have 400 hours on them.
Brad - great to hear! Yeah, if we made the photography more realistically portray how friggin tiny the drivers really are I don't think we'd sell any of them ;) visual perception of value and all that BS.
But acoustically speaking, shrinking the point source down to a small point really helps facilitate the clarity of the upper band and the "height" effect in terms of dynamics. Also, small walls are inherently stiffer and more easily braceable to the point that you have a high enough strength to weight ratio without getting into the "excess" game that seems to captivate the majority of the high end audio scene.
Your pair already had a few solid days on them, btw. I was running them in an 8 strong line array mostly listening to my recently completed NEU! collection (as of record store day last month). Recently, I've been trying to put significantly more hours on them before we ship them out to folks because we've found that those first impressions are important - people need to realize that they just bought the apex predator of the oceans... not some stupid little stuffed shamu toy.
I still enjoy hearing them change in sound from miniature to green to gold to grand over time. Its really exciting to hear them finally open up one day and then realize - "holy crap! this is NIIIIICE!"
Clark:
Found the pic on the Facebook page, the cables are different.
Greg, indeed they are. The stackable bananas you have are still a pretty decent option - the y-cables are only ~3-5% better sounding. Not a huge change there, but as it goes in audio, you could probably spend $80 in worse ways.... the sonic difference shows up in the upper treble and lowest bass being a bit more open. How did your stands end up turning out btw?
-Clark
-
Clark,
Not sure what your talking about? Aren't these speakers better?
(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffauxsuperblogs.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F06%2FNew-Bitmap-Image.bmp&hash=e382c134710423c830d0a42800deadc2b623c355)
And the best part is if you can't afford them you can f'n finance them.
-
Also, I'm comfortable with the size, because the important thing is how you use it.
-
Hi Clark,
The stands where a bit of an odyssey.I had some Purpleheart that I had milled as spares for the stands I built for my daughter.I mocked them up but the Purpleheart was just overwhelming, I tried some Maple accents but they were still too much.So in the end Clark knows best, I laminated "Almost grain matched :)" Caramelized Bamboo stands. I did get a jump on factory issue the bases are 1 inch laminated Bamboo with spikes,same for the Subs.
While i was building the stands the Orcas were sitting on the Subs. There was a noticeable improvement when mounted on stands everything was just more "there".
Thanks to You and Molly for a wonderful product.
-
I just got my Orcas and can't believe how small the drivers are. The finish is fantastic. ...
Brad, I sat here and just chuckled. I had the same reactions. I knew it was a 3" driver, but looking at I was just astonished. Then the soundstage! ! ! ! Blows everyone away when they see then hear them.
-
Bottlehead announced similar news earlier today so it's fitting that today is the day for us Blumensteins to say that we have a number of items in stock!
-Caramel & Natural Orcas
-Natural Subwoofers
-Caramel Shelf-style Subwoofer
-Natural Floor Stands
-Caramel Desktop Stands
-Natural Center Channel
For the 7 years we've been in business, sales have always outpaced our production capacity, and with the Orca line in particular, we have never been fully caught up on delivery. But with the large increase in our business earlier this year we knew that if we worked very hard to adjust our inventory forecasting while getting caught up that we might get slightly ahead of the curve. Well, today is that monumental day that we are able to list several items in stock, ready to ship in a week once we give the linseed oil/beeswax finish a final coat, cure, and polishing once ordered.
Each item in the store now has a 'Current Availability' listing that we'll update weekly so you can see what's in stock or what gets ordered on a pre-order basis and how long it will take to ship.
There are also quite a few new discounted items listed in the Sale section, like the pair of Caramel Orcas that Clark "improvised" drilling the binding posts on without using the aligning jig (collector's item?).
http://blumensteinaudio.com/sale-items/caramel-orcas
As always, thanks to everyone for your support, encouragement, and involvement.
-
A new chapter in the Cain and Cain saga:
http://blumensteinaudio.com/cain-cain/
We've got a bunch of cabients for sale. Some of the ones we didn't even get a chance to list have sold already, so if you're interested, move fast. Most of them are in pretty darned good shape, and will come with brand new drivers.
-
It is a sweet stash of cabinets!
-
For all the locals:
Clark will be teaching a speaker building class at a new space in Fremont called Makerhaus.
Teaching a class is something we've been wanting to do for awhile but just don't have the facilities for yet. Makerhaus is like the YMCA of woodworkers and builders; you can pay for a membership or a use-as-you-go fee to use all the machines and tools you could ever want--they have a fully equipped wood shop, not to mention 3D printers, laser cutter, you name it...
This will be a six-week course that begins with an overview of acoustics and the nuances of full range audio drivers. From there, we'll guide you through the wood shop and give hands-on training to build your own speaker cabinets. You'll even be able to apply your own custom graphics with a 150 watt laser engraver if you want to get all fancy. We'll be using birch ply (not bamboo) to keep the materials cost down.
The class is $499 for non-Makerhaus members, which includes the $100 materials fee.
Hope to see some of you there!
Molly
-
Wow sounds like a fun class! Would do that in an instant if i was in that area.
How bout a nyc weekend workshop??
Just put together my bedroom system with speakers that i built sort of. Parts Express cabs i cut up.
Im getting 96db of Modest Mouse out of them now:)
The rear firing tweeters sound so much better. They need to make them double faced with a faux face on one side.
-
Very cool sounding class, Molly. Would love to participate if I lived close by. Here's wishing you and Clark a very successful and fun class.
-Randy
-
Very cool indeed. There's a similar woodworking "co-op" in Philadelphia. I'd definitely attend.
-
Couple of questions,
Is the speaker project essentially an Orca (i.e. same cabinet dimensions, driver, building process, et cetera), or is it more a "B.Y.O. Driver and we'll help you with math and logistics" type deal?
The picture shown looks like old school Orcas with the recessed drivers, would the completed project be closer to current iteration Orcas, as in surface mount?
Will there be after class sessions at http://outlanderbrewing.com/ ?
Will Bruce be the T.A.?
-
Couple of questions,
Is the speaker project essentially an Orca (i.e. same cabinet dimensions, driver, building process, et cetera), or is it more a "B.Y.O. Driver and we'll help you with math and logistics" type deal?
More the latter, except the price of the class includes a pair of Fostex FF85wk drivers.
The picture shown looks like old school Orcas with the recessed drivers, would the completed project be closer to current iteration Orcas, as in surface mount?
Whatever students want for their design.
Will there be after class sessions at http://outlanderbrewing.com/ ?
That's a great idea. The last class on August 1, which is optional, will be a chance for everyone to come back in with their finished speakers and we'll have a listening session. Maybe a celebratory drink afterward!
Will Bruce be the T.A.?
No, I'll be the T.A. Bruce has been in early retirement since he was 10 months old.
-
I've updated the listings for the Cain and Cains to show real prices. There was some confusion as to whether or not I was using the old Cain and Cain prices or the newer Lovecraft prices for my "percentages off retail." I was actually using the old cain and cain prices... so they've come out to be cheaper than alot of people thought!
The new prices are over 50% off Lovecraft retail, and I can guarantee that these speakers are gonna sound better than anything you buy in the used market... I'll be performing my tweaking magic on them via driver mounting, crossover components, wiring, damping, and bracing tricks I've learned over the years (many of which go into the Orca).
http://blumensteinaudio.com/cain-cain-speakers/
And an updated discussion here:
http://blumensteinaudio.com/cain-cain/
-
Hi all,
Just a quick reminder this memorial day that we give veterans a 10% discount. (gotta contact us to get a coupon code).
-Clark
P.S.
The 18 pcs... wow!
-
I must ask, really! What do you play when you run in the drivers?
-
I must ask, really! What do you play when you run in the drivers?
I'm usually not in too much of a hurry to break things in to be honest, so I try not to resort to specific "break in" music so much as just stuff with bass that I really like to listen to.
But if I am in a hurry, I use the Hafler DH100 at nearly bottoming out point for the drivers, and I run something with heavy bass like Notorious B.I.G. (but not stuff that's methamphetamine inspired like Prodigy).
But - on current rotation is DJ Krush, The American Analog Set, Kurt Vile and Grateful Dead.
DJ Krush is great when you stream from MOG radio "artist only." I've seen him a few times, Seattle and Tokyo and Seattle again on his 50th birthday. He was truly groundbreaking in this genre... and still is. DJ music ain't just for the young!
For Grateful Dead I am really into the Dicks Picks series, just working my way through. The Vol.3 is a really good set I just came across. I'm not a well informed dead head, but definitely go through stages here and there where its all I can listen to. Seems to be spurred on by the coming of summertime!
Kurt Vile is another "checker" type of music. The potential harshness of his vocals will really destroy most single drivers' tonal characters. Got to see him just last week at Neumos. He is so good. One of the greats of modern times IMO.
Have been using line arrays in the shop recently to get enough volume to overcome all the recently added tool noises. I don't know where my mind would be without loud music (and loud tools) sometimes!
Cheers man,
Clark
-
Clark, how are you driving the line array?
-
Thanks Clark!
You do wear ear plugs, right? I can attribute my loss of highs to industrial noise.
-
Clark, how are you driving the line array?
Thomas, using my BeePree/Paramounts for general listening, or my Hafler DH200/Hafler pre for breakin/dance parties.
Thanks Clark!
You do wear ear plugs, right? I can attribute my loss of highs to industrial noise.
Grainger - most assuredly. I force everyone else in the shop to wear them too :)
-
"I am really into the Dicks Picks series, just working my way through." 8)...John
-
"I am really into the Dicks Picks series, just working my way through." 8)...John
Totally set myself up for that one...
-
Another good concert - Barton. The download in high quality in the left bank of navigation is not half bad.
http://archive.org/details/gd77-05-08.sbd.hicks.4982.sbeok.shnf Really good musicianship.
Ok, so since we are getting off topic a bit, and into the realm of me admitting embarrasing things like the fact that I'm a dead-head...
I figure I'll share another personal story/quest: for the past four years I've been learning this niche type of skateboarding called LDP (stands for Long Distance Pumping) and Skogging (Skateboard jogging) which was initially intended to help train myself an amount of ambidexterity in the shop (originally for hand-sanding, actually, but now it applies to the way I double fist the orbitals, drills, saws, lifting heavy objects, you name it). I've gotten to the point where I'm pedi-dextrous for normal pushing, and can also pump in three major stances. My favorite of which, but the slowest, is the forward facing type. I've got a few recent videos on this page:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Tongueoutmonoskihappyendingstance/101182529969244?ref=stream
Yes - more than a little off the beaten trail for anything that resembles excersize, but really REALLY fun to be cruising around going 15mph without touching a foot to the ground for miles at a time, and its extremely manuverable.
Bike commuting helps keep my leg muscles in balance, as the pumping is pretty anerobic. Its fun to find good headphone music to skate to.
Cheers,
Clark
-
Hi all!
Just added a few new items to the store to facilitate extended support for all our past works:
-Cabinet touch up kits
-Subwoofer driver replacements
-Speaker grills
http://blumensteinaudio.com/shop/
and then scroll to the bottom.
Cheers!
-Clark
-
We're having a get together at our showroom (newly dubbed the Listening Lounge) on Saturday, June 29th, from 5:30 - 9:00 pm.
We've been doing a lot of work on our demo space and want to show it off to the locals! We'll be listening to Orcas with double subs through our new, all Bottlehead "Big Rig"--BeePre and Paramounts--for which we owe PB a hearty thanks for helping us get it all together.
If you're in the area, we'd love to have you by. Bring your own music or choose from our library. There will also be drinks and snacks on hand. We've had a lot of fun in the past throwing small informal listening parties at our space so this one is going to be pretty special.
If you can't make it that night, we always take appointments. We've also started to hold open demonstration hours on certain Fridays so keep your ears/eyes open for those, which we announce through our Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/BlumenUltraFi) as well as post to our website.
I'm also happy to say that Natural and Caramel Orcas are back in stock! There are some new items in the sale section as well (http://blumensteinaudio.com/sale-items/)
Hope to see some of you on the 29th!
-Molly
p.s. If you're in the mood for a slideshow, check out the photos that Clark uploaded to the Past Works Gallery on the website: http://blumensteinaudio.com/past-works/
-
Just a quick reminder that we are having a party with free drinks, food, and etc. at our newly rennovated listening room this Saturday, 5pm-9pm. Come one, come all! Its gonna be so much fun!
Feel free to RSVP to the event via Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/events/514950198558756/
But if you are not a facebooker, just give us a call or email if you are confused about directions or anything.
Bring Vinyl, CDs, yourselves, and friends.
Cheers,
Clark and Molly.
-
Any new products from Blumenstein before the start of the new year?
-
I can't speak for Clark about new products in general. But I can say that we have the latest Orca setup with the new subs in our Blumenstein/Bottlehead system and it really sounds good. As much as I was taken by Clark's speakers when I first heard them a couple years ago, the current designs are a very clear evolutionary step up from what Clark was making when we started hanging out. Josh tends to run that system a lot when he is working in the office in the morning and with his dialing in of the turntable in that system it's really starting to sing.
And I had quite an epiphany yesterday. Clark brought over a pair of Feastrex drivers in boxes that were spec'd by PJ. Honestly, when I had heard them in the past I could see the potential but they never really got it all together for my ear. Yesterday we ran them full range and I heard some stuff that caught my attention, big time. I suggested we use the Feastrexes in place of my Raal ribbons and ATD Hypergraph mids, leaving the woofer array active and crossing the Feastrexes over to them.
Ho Lee Shit! With some help on the bottom end to fill my big listening room these things are just stunning. This is the first thing I have heard that, for me, clearly outshone my current setup. We are aleady discussing how to make a transition in my system.
-
Which driver Dan?
-
I looked on the site today. I didn't see the new sub under the Orca.
Am I responding oddly to my medications or is there indeed a new smaller sub?
-
I was also positively impressed by the current Feastrex setup (I visited with Clark on Monday). I think that's partly because Clark has put a few hundred hours on them since the last time we heard them ... :^)
Without saying more, I know Clark and Molly have a few things in development, some of which are quite promising.
-
I know the Feastrex are part of a future "Ultra Fi" product and I too am waiting to see what form that will take. For my current needs my Orca's and sub are more than capable for filling my space with great and appealing sound. My next step would probably be moving to a Stereomour from the SEX 2.1. I enjoy the sound immensely but find some distortion occurring once I turn the gain past 2. Does the extra watt or so from the Stereomour make a significant increase in control at higher volumes or are these the natural limitations of the 3" cone? Not looking for an earth shaking wall of sound but something audible over a crowded living room of guests.
-
Yes, Stereomour has more beans to give the Orcas than the SEX amp does. It's a couple watts more powerful, 4W vs 2W.
-
Dear tdogzthmn; My Orcas and their BUF subs play with a BHCustoms Linestage and 2A3 amp(3.5 watts) in a LR of 14x19x8 dimension. I have driven them to near bottoming levels and find they create a huge stage well beyond the speakers on many recordings. I imagine that the move to the Stereomour might allow much the same result for you.
Cheers, hank
-
Hank, Doc, I can definitely concur. The SEX amp is probably the best nearfield amp I know of for these - especially because of the non microphonic nature of the 6dn7. But the stock stereomour, however, is certainly the choice for the demands of a livingroom listening environment. While you probably won't get a crowd (bigger than 2 ;) ) "dancing fervently" to the Orcas, you can in general use even more power with them to get even just a bit higher volumes/control (so long as you aren't actually using that power - the drivers are rated at ~5 watts).
New developments:
--Old becomes new. The Orcas are still, not surprisingly, a wonderful set of speakers. They are still truly gratifying to listen to, even compared to our bigger projects that are about to be released. Honestly, they've been a tough benchmark to surpass in terms of their simple, humbly portrayed musicality. Its not entirely surprising that I've had a tough time surpassing their aesthetics considering that customers new and old are still comparing the presentation of the Orcas to that of speakers costing multiple times more. Their particular brand of "small speaker, big sound" thing is still a new technology that catches people by surprise.
--The Dungeness Sub will be formally released next week. Sorry the details aren't up on the website just yet. Its taken us a bit of time to get new photographs and break in our pairs of them to the point that we feel comfortable writing ad copy and setup advice for them as they are a bit different from the Orca subs in terms of placement considerations.
--We've also been working on some Mark Audio based mid sized bookshelf models lately as well. They are getting into the 40's strongly. We have intentionally side stepped the trend of other makers/designers to get merely "lean and clean" bass out of these drivers. Our cabinets are essentially a gigantic Orca enclosure - so considering that the Orcas get really strong bass (quantity, not extension) out of a 3", then these really get good bass out of 6" or 8"...
The tough part for us has been choosing which one we will move forward with as they are both good - and fairly similar in overall tone character to each other. I've also discovered that yes - while I was breaking them in 24/7 for a month solid on the bench, that once I installed the drivers into cabinets that their excursion had not been worked out properly because they were not in a tuned box demanding <50hz out of them. So the tweaking process over the coming weeks is two fold - some small cabinet tweaks, and alot more breakin of the drivers installed in cabinets.
--The Feastrex boxes have been truly revelatory this time. In this case, the primary box design came from PJ, with some i's dotted and t's crossed by PB, detailed notes taken into account from a listening session last year with Dan, and Molly's input on overall musical aesthetics ever since she's had exposure to these unique drivers.
This go 'round, I friggin' love these things, and can't wait to rebuild the cabinets out of proper stuff. The cabinets as shown are intended to work full range or to be actively crossed to woofers (because they are ported in the rear). In Dan's system, the addition of woofers was awesome. It will be really fun to hear the progression of them in his system.
Thanks to all for your support and encouragement of our pursuit of the speaker arts!
Cheers,
Clark
-
If you don
-
Tom, I really liked reading this! What a quest! I can only agree with you about the 45 tube... Check out what I'm running in my Paramour II based SR-45's :)
However, this is amongst a veritable stable of amplification that we've got around here... come to think of it, its about due time for some long term reporting:
--I myself am a really big fan of the Paramount 300B's and Beepree for impressing guests. As the company has grown, I find myself doing this more regularly from our showroom. These are always the first amps I play because they give the most compelling sense of "little speaker, and holy crap the huge and awesome sound." I do also, on a personal level, have a fair amount of "bass head" in me as well which gives these amps significant gravity for my daily use. Generally I have an affinity for super clean highs to the point that my attention is brought more down to the large, weighty bass and fundamental low mids. The Paramounts really dish this out at high volumes and low distortions. The Orcas seem to just gobble up (and display even better dynamics), but will sometimes complain if given too much power from these amps. In a funny way, I sortof get a kick out of having this ability, though I absolutely rarely and even then only slightly overdrive my Orcas because its a really bad habit to get into. They've also got to be about the best 300B amps I've heard. They have to have immaculate build quality by the kit builder, and then your sound is even bigger/better than some $30000 300B monsters that I heard at Feastrex. No joke.
--At nighttime when I'm staying up late and working on the computer or something, I kick up the footrest of the lazy boy, turn the volume down, and snuggle up (nearfield) to the 45's, which are just amazingly holographic with our year + broken in pair of Orcas. Nothing has touched the hypnotic clarity and pure "ease" of these amps especially in the high frequencies of anything else I've owned. Of all amps for the concept of "music therapy" I think that these really deserve consideration. They sound so easy, intelligent, and composed. But they also walk softly and carry a big stick. - which is a core tenet of the sound design philosophy of the Orcas themselves - to not smack you over the head with their power but to draw you and seduce you just like a good 45 amp can. The SR45's are truly restorative to my minds balance and my personal (not professional) motivation. My SR-45's will (hopefully) eventually be able to come home as the listening amplifier for the casa-Blumenstein Feastrex based Bottlehead system, but of course, I've got to let other people listen to all these great pieces first :)
--Castle-Blumenstein is just a humble little system actually (for now). We've been using 5 y/o Paramour II 2A3 mono's driven by a Foreplay III into 7 year old (!) early serial number (006,007) "Kiwi's" (birch Orcas with the recessed drivers). (I also bring home bamboo Orcas to listen to and break in from time to time). Of course, there is something to be said for working well within your limits on a day to day basis. This system is so predictable to me. Its funny enough for me to admit that its probably what would be considered as my "reference-" as its a system that's stayed exactly the same for the longest time. However, the value of 7 year compassionately, (not hurredly!) broken in drivers is never to be underestimated. I get so much genuine musical pleasure from this system I'm surprised that I ever changed any of the Orcas' design. - oh right. Our customers kept giving us great ideas...
So in conclusion, the Stereomour 2A3 would be my best rec for where to start as well for the best "daily driver." What we've got here (echoing Natural Sound) is a great compromise between these extremes in dynamics and imaging between the 300B's and EML Globe 45's. And once the Stereomour warms up it can really give the Orcas a run for their money bass wise as well. - And it can be converted to a great 45 amp! And its so simple to operate.
keep enjoying the music,
Clark
-
I need to get me a pair of those EML 45's! I remember how great those sounded in my 45-ified Paramounts on the Blumenstein HQ demo rig!
-
Clark,
Since you have Paramour IIs and love the 45s I am surprised you haven't converted to 45s at home.
BTW, I had a pair of speakers serial numbers 3 and 4. So how did you get 6 and 7 at home? There is an odd number before them.
-
I did sell an odd number to a fellow very early on for use as home theater speakers (and they are still holding up very well I hear).
Also, random trivia, is that I started numbering my speakers kind of willy nilly (not sure) around 50 pair into the business. One day, I realized it was more than a hobby. So I finally started put number 1 on them. There's so many old projects I forgot to even photograph. haha!
The Paramour II's have been run with TJ Mesh Plate 45's for a few years actually. That was the system I ran into my Fostex FE208ES-R bamboo speakers for a few years. It was excellent, amazing. they had unbelievable tone that would really penetrate walls and dominate all your thoughts. But ultimately, even they never quite came up to the level of my Feastrex NF5-ex's so I sold the speakers and also needed more powerful amps for the Feastrexes so I went back to 2A3's
Since all that, I've gravitated towards my Stereomour as my true reference 2A3 amp. Its an even more sophisticated design than the paramours and I love the sound of the stock OPT's and stock circuit very much. (which is why I run it at the shop - to keep the best stuff on hand for demonstrations)
Cheers,
Clark
-
Dude, we need to talk about the Prince poster ;)
I have the Stereomour output iron and plate chokes in my Paramour II's. I agree with your comment about the stock OPT's. They sound about 100 times better than the Speco's that were in there prior to my upgrade. Re-purposing the old Triad plate choke into a power supply choke made a nice improvement in dynamics too.
I may pick up a Stereomour kit this winter to run a system in my home office. At which point I'll probably need another pair of Orcas and a sub. :)
-
Haha! surprised you recognize it. This was back in the college days... used to play Prince to get people going at dance parties.
That sounds like it would be a pretty awesome home office and I'd be honored to have our speakers be a part of it.
Cheers,
Clark
-
And I was trying to tell what turntable that was in the back corner. I wouldn't have known Prince from Madonna. Well, she is blonde, right? I could have told by the hair.
-
Thorens TD 126 MK II. An old standby that I had setup pretty well for years and years until the motor quit on me.
-
AAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand, I did it. I pulled the trigger on a pair of Dungeness subs for my Orcas.
This is my, in chronological order, Birthday, Halloween, Thanksgiving and Christmas from my wife (we don't really give Halloween and Thanksgiving gifts but this is the way she said it).
-
AAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand, I did it. I pulled the trigger on a pair of Dungeness subs for my Orcas.
An excellent decision! The compactness of those smaller subs makes them super flexible in terms of optimizing listening position.
-PB
-
Thanks!
Now I need to make a pair of foot print cut outs for future positioning. What is the size, Clark? They will displace my Paramours.
Edit: I made one out of foam and will be crawling around the floor for a while.
-
Congrats on the Dungeness purchase. Look forward to your listening impressions!
I was wondering if anyone could speak to the sonic differences between the old (non-surface mounted driver) vs. the new (surface-mounted) model? Thanks in advance!
-
I think they've all been surface mounted? (subs) or are you wondering about the older Orcas with rear mounted drivers compared to the newer Orcas?
-
I think they've all been surface mounted? (subs) or are you wondering about the older Orcas with rear mounted drivers compared to the newer Orcas?
Sorry, I meant the older Orcas with rear-mounted drivers vs. the newer ones :)
-
Hi there Dsound,
Yes, the Orcas were changed from a rear mounted driver to a front mount to alter the frequency response of them to become a sound that is geared more towards the upper volume capabilities of the drivers and cabinets themselves.
The rear mounting gave emphasis and a pleasant brightness to the midrange which works well with the ears' frequency response at lower volumes (<65db avg. SPL's), where the midrange (>1000,<5000) can be slightly boosted to enhance the intelligibility of music at those lower volumes.
We had a companion product at the time which was called the Naga, which had surface mounted drivers, flatter response, and was put into a backloaded horn for slightly greater power handling. This was our "living room" model, and got around 82-85db SPL's max from ~6-9 feet away.
Over time we wished to balance out the capabilities of both speakers into a single model that would be our "super speaker."
So the newer, surface mounted Orcas' sound is flatter, which is what the ear needs at the higher volumes I was chasing in the design (for livingroom or desktop use (by customer request)), and now they are even a somewhat bass heavy sound within their >~80-85 hz to 20k+ frequency range (which you wouldn't guess from a 3" driver, but I've got the graphs and testimonials to prove it.).
This surface mounted, slightly midrange deemphasized sound is more geared towards the longer listening sessions we wish to encourage as well, and the slightly larger cabinets take advantage of the prodigious maximum excursion and bass making capabilities of the drivers as well by tuning them a bit lower in practice than they can be simulated in design software.
We were gradually able to unleash these capabilities about a year ago as certain cabinet bracing, bass reflex tuning, and driver frame dampening/tuning processes were optimized as well over the years. The Orcas haven't really changed in the past year, which is what's freed us up to devote our design capacities towards the bigger Feastrex models and etc.
I know that the look is pretty dissimilar between the recessed and surface mounted drivers, but for us who have seen and heard the difference (and countless other experiments that never made it to market), we view the change as simply a gradual evolutionary process of refining the sound of the speakers for enjoyment by the general audiophile public and also to pass muster for more rigorous professional uses.
We are now making what we feel are some of the most balanced and well rounded, and even magical sounding with SET amps, set of compact speakers you can buy at any price.
No, we didn't invent the "little speaker, big sound" ilk of small bookshelf speakers, but we've been the first to successfully produce a true single driver bookshelf design that sounds good without even a scrap of damping material or BSC that runs happy with 2 watts at under a $3000-$4000 price point. Why? we wish to "proliferate the beauty" of such a brutally-elegant concept rather than to guard it behind high price tags.
In terms of production numbers, we switched to the surface mounted drivers at around pair #75, 2 years ago. Just last night a woman came by to pick up her pair of Orcas, #250. So the vast majority of the Orcas out there are of the surface mounted type.
Hope this information helps!
Cheers!
-Clark
-
Thanks for the detailed reply Clark! It's interesting to hear all the aspects you considered in the refinement of the Orca speakers. :)
The reason why I asked the question is that I recently bought a pair of rear-mounted Orcas (have not received them yet). While these aren't the latest iteration of your speakers, I'm looking forward to hearing them, especially given that my normal listening levels is <65db.
-
Totally. We have a few pairs we still keep around, SN #006,007 in the living room at home and also #035 and #036 that we occasionally run in the shop when there aren't any bamboo ones around. The new ones are awesome, but the old ones are still really fun to listen to!
Congrats on your purchase,
Clark
-
Clark posted about our sale elsewhere on the forum (http://www.bottlehead.com/smf/index.php/topic,4909.0.html) but I thought I'd also mention it one last time here on the BUF thread as well, again for those who don't get our newsletter. We've been running a 10% off sale and it's continuing through end of day tomorrow, Saturday!
More info here: http://bit.ly/1f7JpC3
A few of you have already taken advantage of it, and feel free to contact us if you have any questions!
Thanks,
Molly
-
Hi all!
We've decided to extend the 10% off sale through midnight Monday, Sept. 23rd! Share the news with the ones you love who love music!
-
Totally. We have a few pairs we still keep around, SN #006,007 in the living room at home and also #035 and #036 that we occasionally run in the shop when there aren't any bamboo ones around. The new ones are awesome, but the old ones are still really fun to listen to!
Congrats on your purchase,
Clark
Received my new-used Orca's yesterday and I love them! I am truly enjoying the upper-mid detail and how deftly musical these speakers are. They especially shine when I play small-combo jazz (Bill Evans, Bud Powell) and acoustic guitar. I am currently listening to "Lost Cause" (Beck) and the sound is ridiculously good.
The true litmus test was when I played "One Flight Down" (Norah Jones) for my wife. She was so captivated that when it ended , she immediately made me restart the track to continue the experience.
Thanks for making such an accessible/great product Clark.
[Edit: Attached picture of setup]
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-TFoHOkPPO60/UkHFXaI-WCI/AAAAAAAACM4/U4ei0G-AZcA/s512/orcas_001.jpg)
-
She was so captivated that when it ended , she immediately made me restart the track to continue the experience.
Yes, forget buzzwords about realism, resolution, imaging, etc. Making the experience such that one wants to listen to a song again is the ultimate goal.
-
Received my new-used Orca's yesterday and I love them! I am truly enjoying the upper-mid detail and how deftly musical these speakers are. They especially shine when I play small-combo jazz (Bill Evans, Bud Powell) and acoustic guitar. I am currently listening to "Lost Cause" (Beck) and the sound is ridiculously good.
The true litmus test was when I played "One Flight Down" (Norah Jones) for my wife. She was so captivated that when it ended , she immediately made me restart the track to continue the experience.
Thanks for making such an accessible/great product Clark.
[Edit: Attached picture of setup]
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-TFoHOkPPO60/UkHFXaI-WCI/AAAAAAAACM4/U4ei0G-AZcA/s512/orcas_001.jpg)
Wow! Seeing those really takes me back (a few hundred pairs)! You have one of maybe 4 pairs of the bamboo rear mounts produced circa 2011 before we went surface mount to accomodate for the new style driver vibration dampening hardware and to flatten out the upper frequencies in the 2 khz region from the effects of the recess mounting (with the then new FE83En driver).
But, on the other hand, those drivers have had years of play... the paper darkens with age, and softens up as well, which fully sweetens the tone of the high frequencies. the suspension loosens up to a point that its far more pliable than when its new, and the sound finaly gets a "frictionless" characteristic to it. I bet they sound pretty darned good by now! Congrats!
Best,
Clark
-
Wow! Seeing those really takes me back (a few hundred pairs)! You have one of maybe 4 pairs of the bamboo rear mounts produced circa 2011 before we went surface mount to accomodate for the new style driver vibration dampening hardware and to flatten out the upper frequencies in the 2 khz region from the effects of the recess mounting (with the then new FE83En driver).
But, on the other hand, those drivers have had years of play... the paper darkens with age, and softens up as well, which fully sweetens the tone of the high frequencies. the suspension loosens up to a point that its far more pliable than when its new, and the sound finaly gets a "frictionless" characteristic to it. I bet they sound pretty darned good by now! Congrats!
It's fun knowing I have a rare-piece of Orca-histroy :) .
Regarding the drivers, I had to swap one out because a child (not my own) got curious about the dust cover and pushed it in. On the upside, it gave me an excuse to take a look at the unique bracing that you have going on inside the cabinet.
A couple wire-strippings and a generous amount of solder-later.. Looks good as new!
-
Well that makes me even happier to know that you had the gumption to notice the primary design feature behind everything we make:
That it is end-user maintainable/repairable.
With so many products these days, its a "one time go" at making sure they live for the long haul. Manufacturers are focusing on the way literally everything used inside their piece is "custom" and "one of a kind." Not realizing that they are alienating the end user from the very thing that makes something worth being passed down: that it can be yours to (easily and infrequently) care for for quite some time. The wood finish used in any old product especially governs this attribute.
We should get you hooked up with one of our wood work repair kits btw to restore them to their original glow. I'll throw in extra finish for you. http://blumensteinaudio.com/shop/cabinet-touch-up-kit
Cheers,
Clark
-
We should get you hooked up with one of our wood work repair kits btw to restore them to their original glow. I'll throw in extra finish for you. http://blumensteinaudio.com/shop/cabinet-touch-up-kit
Thanks Clark! I'll probably need to order that kit sooner than later as I have 3 little ones running around the house :o .
On another note, I was listening to Freddie Freeloader yesterday and I discovered how much the Orcas really shine when turned up. The Orcas rendered Davis' trumpet wonderfully at higher listening levels; this was especially appreciated when compared to my old speakers, whose tweeters rendered brass instruments unnecessarily harsh and sibilant.
-
Orca listening this afternoon. I'm cleaning LPs, listening to CDs. The last cut on John Renbourn's Ship Of Fools, Travellers' Prayer, is an acapella song. I had to stop cleaning and sit in front of the listening chair (the dog was sleeping in it) and listen. It is amazing on the Orcas.
-
Hey Grainger; Since obtaining a VPI classic and a BPS Evo lll cartridge, I have listened to my copies of Renbourne's "Lady & the Unicorn" and "Sir John Alot" albums and couldn't agree more with your experience. Something alive about these Transatlantic Records cuts, would love to find some more, now that I am listening to vinyl again via the Orcas+subs on BH gear.
Cheers, Hank in Eugene OR
-
I played those this week while cleaning LPs. I didn't have them on CD and just bought them, arrived this week. I have Transatlantic LPs of both, of course from the 70s when I started my collection of British Folk-Rock.
-
Hi everyone,
We're in the midst of a large production run in caramel bamboo and we have 2 sets of Orcas and Dungeness that are unspoken for and in stock. Clark and I decided to extend the sale that precipitated this production to these 2 remaining sets.
Typically, the wait time can be 4-8 weeks for a complete Orca/Dungeness system, but these setups are set to ship out by November 8th, and we're offering them at 10% off.
Price includes:
1 Pair of Caramel Orca Fullrange
1 Piece Caramel Dungeness Subwoofer
Clark also decided to throw in a set of 9-feet complimentary speaker cable at the last minute to sweeten the deal ; )
Contact us if you're interested. We'd love to give these setups a home, and I know we say this every time, but...this is our nicest woodwork to date. Really, it is!
Hope all you locals are enjoying this beautiful Fall weather.
Molly
-
I've gotten lazy since purchasing the Orcas. They make CDs sound really good so I play fewer LPs.
Today I am listening to Dire Straits, On Every Street. I know this album well. It sounds better than ever today.
My thanks to Clark and Molly for expanding my enjoyment of my music!
There was an interruption in my listening. The soundstage is exceptional. Knopfler's guitar playing is exceptional. It is mystic! This album is exceptionally well recorded.
Album name corrected.
-
Today I am listening to Dire Straits, On Every Corner. I know this album well. It sounds better than ever today.
Apparently you don't know it as well as you thought. The album is named, "On Every Street." ;)
-
First, I received the shipping notice for my Dungeness subs today. It might have come last night but I opened the email this morning. I'm excited to say the least! I'll do some room rearranging today.
You are right, I wasn't looking and just remembering. Or in this case misremembering.
-
Oh, CRAP! I just realized I need to make a trip to Home Depot and buy a triple box and another Hospital outlet to power the Dungeness Subs.
I have more things to plug in than the P300 can supply (4 max) so I expanded by making a short cord with 4 outlets at the end. Now I need 6 outlets. I currently run at 170W maximum. I'm good to 300W.
-
Grainger, got your subs going? How about a report?
-
FedEx, my least favorite carrier, didn't pick up the Dungeness subs till Tuesday this week. They were ready Thursday night last week. I would have expected a Friday pick up.
So they estimate delivery on Saturday. That is, if they can find my house. The have mis-delivered more packages than correctly delivered in the last 7 years. They arrived in Nashville, 3 hours away, at 5:00 AM today.
Yesterday I went to HD and got some wood putty to plug the holes where the Orcas were screwed to the stands. I intend to lay them on their side. The putty that nearest matched them was Honey Oak. Funny, they are Caramel but a light Caramel.
Eagerly awaiting! ! !
-
It's a race! mine is due for delivery today!
-
How does the Dungeness compare to the older Blumenstein Orca sub?
Deb
-
The Dungeness subs arrived about 4:00 PM this afternoon. Unpacking them and getting them onto the stands and wired took an hour. My brother called asking about Thanksgiving so that ate up some time.
They are quick. I got the settings wrong first off, I didn't see that there was a 9, 10 and 11 o'clock hash mark. So everything was too bassy at first. Duh! Wrong setting!
I played 40 Days by The Wailin' Jennys then The Heartbeat of Japan, the Kodo Taiko drums.
The detail in the bass is much improved over the Boston Acoustics sub. My brief listening says, "Fast, Detailed, Well Integrated."
I'm cleaning the full downstairs of the house after 3 days of demo, grinding, sanding and screwing the sub floor down (as it should have been done when the house was built).
More later, less sooner!
-
Sounds like the perfect sub.. you want it super fast and detailed...
-
How does the Dungeness compare to the older Blumenstein Orca sub?
Deb
I answered this question for Deb over email, but imagining that others might have similar questions, I thought I'd relay my response to the forum:
The Dungeness Sub could be considered a decent upgrade to the Orca sub. It integrates even better sonically and goes lower, and is smaller and less expensive. It took a lot of design work to get all these initiatives covered, but it really came together on this subwoofer model.
And for those interested in developments on our Feastrex-based speaker, the Uni, we have a pair of the new Alpha series drivers in the prototype cabinets--as before, available for demonstration.
It might be a crime to pair the Uni with a Sub, from our shop or otherwise, but of course we'll be playing around with every aspect of these drivers, including with subs, over time. They make unbelievable bass, into what sounds like the low thirties, even off the SR 45's. Yes, they are ~10k/pr, but they are an extreme value at that price, even. Feastrex has taken their drivers to a whole new level with their whizzerless Alpha series as evidenced by the fact that the pair I just received (to fill an order), which has been breaking in for 3 days solid has transformed into probably the best fullrange driver experience I've ever had in my own home, overall, in only 75 hours of break in time (stateside, probably that many hours logged in Japan as well). They are also extremely competitive considering the upward trend of prices for high end fullrange designs. They are also unconventionally small and unassuming. They punch way above their weight, with such finesse and calm it is just baffling.
I know that I haven't given anything but qualifications to their performance here, and over time I'll post measurements once the drivers are broken in enough to take them. In the meantime, if anybody doubts these assessments I challenge you to come by and hear them and leave without a huge grin on your face.
Cheers!
Clark
-
I realize I didn't post about why I was talking about Feastrexes and Subs yesterday.
Over the years, I've fielded many questions about the 5" feastrex drivers and how well they would mate with subs.
For instance, would the Dungeness do well if mated with the Feastrexes?
It wouldn't be necessary as the Dungeness only has frequency overlap with the 5" Feastrexes in the Uni cabinets, both going down solidly to just under 40 hz or so. They also have almost the same diameter driver, so it just wouldn't have much to offer in terms of additional bass.
The Feastrexes are extremely fast and plentiful on their own in the bass dept. and can be elusive and tough to keep up with with "any old sub."
However, I do think its very much possible to get a good pairing between a Feastrex and sub, as evidenced by a quick "plug in" of the woofer bank at Doc B's place the last time I brought them over for listening, which was pretty encouraging in terms of performance. Doc had one of the nicest sounding tube crossovers I've heard running the system. It think that this piece of hardware made all the difference that day and I'm pretty stoked to go hear it again.
Why woof?
The reason to use a woofer with the 5"ers would be to get far greater power handling and SPL's if that happens to be the taste of the listener. The ear's own EQ changes as volume increases, and the need for low bass to be louder than the rest of the mix increases as average listening levels top ~95db or so (to me) in order to be perceived as "flat" to the ear. This can be challenging for any 5" driver to keep up with above 10+ watts when its already making its own 32 hz (and few millimeters of confident, yet ultimately limited, excursion).
Now for me, personally, it is purist fullrange all the way with these drivers because I like nearfield and midfield listening with most speakers, especially the 5"ers. One SET, one voice coil. "Uni" is partly an homage the concept of "unite," "unification," both in terms of the sound of these drivers, and the strength of the design team that is behind them in Japan, and also over here in the US as PJ, PB, and Dan have all helped us immensely in the rekindling of this project.
The Feastrexes in our new cabinets are so coherent, and they make so much good bass when run full range in most listening environments that most people could rest assured that they'll more likely than not make more than enough excellent bass from even a few watts.
However, a hidden capability of these drivers that few people have ever really been exposed to is that they can make absolutely crazy SPL'S without any compression if the low frequencies are sent somewhere else. Their magic is still there as tweeters/midrange/low mid wide rangers.
Another cool feature of all field coil drivers is that you can vary the voltage slightly (+ or - 10%) in order to tune the drivers to a specific sound system. The high frequency presentation changes slightly in addition to bass character ("lean," "balanced," or "plump"), and this adjustment can prove to be a tremendous asset to be able to compensate for a slightly rolled off phono cartridge or to alternatively take the edge off of an un-optimized digital system.
The highs of the driver are slowly rolled off above 5k and this is a trait that is inherent to the sound of the drivers (like the Orcas, but there is a greater rolloff on these Feastrexes because they are intended for higher volume playback where the ear becomes more sensitive to high frequencies.)
I personally find the rolloff to be well executed. A breath of fresh air. Others who have experience with vintage drivers like the Altec 755A and E know that there is a seductiveness to this kind of sonic presentation if its done well. If the highs that are there are accurate enough, the ear still seems to be able to prioritize them enough psycologically that they are most certainly "heard." And while the roll off would appear to be pretty dramatic, the highs and even uppermost highs are paradoxically (to what these measurements would suggest) totally audible to my and others' ears as many things in the mix do definitely "shimmer" but they never "bite." There is an uncanny ease and accuracy of presentation that these drivers have at all frequencies. They "Uni-te" the music.
However, if one wanted to add a tweeter to the mix it would be very easy to do.
One could dial back the field coil voltage a bit to bring the efficiency more in line with a 92-93 db tweeter, which also softens the highs in a pleasant way to get a pre-rolloff before a crossover comes into effect, for instance. Alternatively, one could turn the voltage up even beyond 10% to get the rising frequency response of typical fullrange drivers, up even more and they make excellent tweeters! (but be careful to not go too crazy as the drivers get hot (and it's eventually impractical))
With exotic fullrange drivers like this, it can be initially tough to get used to the idea of their being malleable on a fundamental level but still with good, reliable results. In many senses, the sole fact that you've paid way more than normal for a set of fullrange drivers (not considering the cabinets), means you've probably gotten more capabilities than you might have thought.
Just like the Orcas, just like the design philosophy of Bottlehead amps, we are actually pretty open minded about how people use our speakers in the real world, so long as we are giving the vast majority of folks something that works extremely well as a simple "plug and play" pair of speakers that have an inherently good frequency response with SET's all the way down to any old amp you've got lying around.
So while for Molly and I, the 5" Feastrex in a "single driver" configuration with the beepre and paramounts is our "mega system" in the realm of completeness of resolution and holography and chest pounding, "goes through you" sort of bass presence and clarity off of 2-10 watts per channel.
But as with any sound system, even one employing 4-15" woofers (which we also have in our listening room!), there will eventually be limitations in bass power handling. The limitations inherent to the purist's single driver approach are ones that I am personally OK with for my own listening - just like the power limitation in the much less expensive, and much less loud, Orca fullrange.
Molly and I personally prefer long term low to medium volume listening to be a completely engaging yet relaxed sound especially in the high frequencies. Now - I'm not talking about "slippers and cigar" kind of backgroundey loungey musak boringness. Whether I'm sitting at the edge of my seat or bleary eyed at midnight sinking into the couch, I just want all the detail and none of the "edge." These are speakers for musical study and/or deep enjoyment or deep healing without any listening fatigue. We've built the heart of our business around these kinds of speakers and customers because we feel that this is a market sector that, traditionally, has not been served very well by the majority of modern speaker offerings.
To Molly and I, really good HiFi creates this needed "safe space" for thoughts to unfold, profound or casual, to listen actively to the music and to give musicians fewer communication barriers with their audiences. Or, more humbly, to just make watching movies and TV a more enjoyable experience.
Just like the speakers themselves are meant to be simple, transparent, and calmly go about the business of projecting their sound, it's our goal as a business to be transparent and give our all as dedicated woodworkers/manufacturers bringing our best to the production processes that are necessary to achieve this level of quality and control. It all goes hand in hand.
Cheers,
Clark
-
Listening a bit more over the weekend I am starting to think that I'd like to play with some HF reinforcement with the Feastrex Alphas. While I know that my own taste is for pretty mellow highs, I can already tell that most folks, especially those in the age demographic to be able to afford the Unis are going to want some sort of high frequency reinforcement to these drivers. When you've been a music appreciator your whole life you tend to need a little extra high frequency information up top and there ain't a damn thing wrong about that it will probably happen to me some day too! And our designs simply must serve the tastes of the appreciator, so its with no hesitation that I'll begin experimentations on this. Perhaps I'll end up with something as mellow as the Fix or perhaps something else entirely. It will be a challenge, like everything, but totally worth the effort once we nail it. Luckily, I happen to have a brand new pair of Fostex T900A's (the big boys) to play with for a few days before I'll be installing them into the Cain and Cain Double Horn BEN ES as well in the next week. If memory serves, these should sound a whole lot better than my old T90A-EX tweeters of yore. Will report back soon on the preliminary results.
Best,
Clark
-
The t500a mkii are way better than the 900. The only tweeters that are better sounding to me are my plasma tweeters from Doc but those have spl limitations. Would be great with the feastrexes. I'll try them ind day with the WE.
-
Xavier, totally agree with you about the T500A MK II. Its probably one of the only horn tweeters that I can really get behind (that's not Goto or ALE!) And the price is pretty decent considering the massive amount of brass and precision machining (and, of course, the sound for the dollar).
I have heard some ribbon tweeters at Paul B's place while we were monkeying around with the Mark Audios and those sounded very good as well.
It will be cool to hear about your results with the WE's!
-
Clark,
Did you find the Mark Audios to be too hot in the treble to fit into the "Blumenstein house sound"? Just curious what the drawbacks were sonically with the Alair drivers and why not use some of Fostex's larger full range drivers?
-
Hey Thomas, I've been writing up a response yesterday and in spurts today but now need to finish my important rewiring work on these for a customer before I took a night off to finish taking and compiling a few more impressions. And I also might want to weigh in on the performance of these actually pretty darned good sounding 208 sigmas to review along side the rest. It may be a little bit of cabinetry magic going on though... These are Terry's first pair of double horns afterall. Dated June of 2002.
Pouring a little out for my homie,
Cheers,
Clark
-
John Simons here, my first post I think.
Interesting to hear about high frequency reinforcement on the Alphas, Clark. It's my personal belief that the highs are where music really lives. It's what gives the energy to music rock, it's where so much of the detail is. And the Orcas would support that claim; they don't go very low but still they're the most pleasant speakers I've ever owned, and I really could make due with them the rest of my life. Bass? Bah, nice to have but not that important.
I also have this theory that "relaxing" highs aren't about how loud or soft they are, but how they're distributed. The Orcas go way up over 20khz, which makes the highs smooth. Speakers that barely get to 20k, you have turn them up to hear the highest highs, the shimmer, and then the rest of the treble bites you. The Orcas never poke at my eardrums no matter how much I turn them up, and yet they're bright. They have a lot of punchiness.
Given my particular sonic preferences, I'd be awfully curious how the Alphas sound with more voltage than Feastrex recommends...
-
John, and the forum,
I asked Clark to recommend a supertweeter for my Orcas some time back. His comment may be unrelated, but... there is always a but. I have had my hearing tested and discovered that I have normal hearing up to 5k Hz. then it rolls off by 5dB and remains level above that.
20 years in heavy industry, noise levels similar to Paul Joppa who worked for an airplane manufacturer, have taken its toll on my hearing. OSHA mandated hearing protection is insufficient for guys who like audio. I want something to replace the highs to where my system still has the sizzle of cymbals that I remember in my twenties. I could hear 19.5k Hz reliably.
Obviously I need something a good 5dB more sensitive than the Orcas and a good 4uF first order crossover for a nominal 8 Ohm tweeter. I am currently using some cheap supertweeters that lack the elegance of the Orcas. I turn them off when friends younger visit for a listen. The supertweeters are just for old farts with damaged hearing.
-
On to listening impressions....
Last night I had an old friend over. He owns one of the Record shops here, Raven Records. We had a couple of drinks, dinner and came up to a very well warmed up system. I was a little disappointed by the bass response of the double Dungeness subs. He wanted to hook up the Boston Acoustics sub.
Then I noticed the bass went through some dramatic changes as I walked to my seat. I moved him forward about a foot and a half and all was well. My seat was in a notch in the room's bass response.
Today I listened to Van Morrison's Moondance, Chicago Transit Authority, first LP, and now The Cowboy Junkies Trinity Sessions. Nope, I didn't hear the horrendous room rumble from the air conditioner. I haven't heard that for a long time. Speaker changes for better imaging and soundstage have lost that ultra low noise, and it is just noise. But the electric bass on Chicago's first album was very satisfying. Moondance sounded like he and all the musicians were here behind the speaker line. The bass drum and boomy old electric bass on CJ's Walking After Midnight is realistic.
I set them up just as specified by Blumenstein's site and haven't felt the need to touch the knobs since.
-
Hi John,
Great to see you on here!
I agree with everything you say about the highs of the Orcas. Not to toot my own horn here too much, but it is no small feat to get a $40 driver to sound like this in the HF department. Alot of the "coolness" to their final character owes to our tuned rubber bushing method of dampening the stamped steel driver frame, and the lack of any damping material in the cabinet as a result. The use of nice plywood that's been heavily braced (Birch or bamboo) also helps quite a bit too in the highs.
With the Alphas, what's so key about them is that they don't seem to have a "parasitic resonance" sound to them after they've warmed up. Its pretty easy to shape or add to this sort of raw ingredient into something that would suit people well. Much more difficult to seemlessly "calm down" a "nervous nelly."
Though, before I monkey around too much with higher voltage with this FC, (which is definitely in the cards), I really want to clean up the field coil wiring from the power supply to the driver with something that's really low resistance and listen closely for the difference in sound now that I'm used to the current paradigm of these drivers in their current boxes, wires etc. and I've got a feel for the way they warm up through the day and behave in general. Now I've just gotta work my a$$ off patiently to keep putting all the rest of the puzzle pieces together to crack the code.
For instance, the current set of field coil wires I have were (embarrassingly) lengthened to over 20 ft each by soldering 3 lengths together to get each side long enough for a PA gig I did for a singer/songwriter friend a few years ago. I'd imagine that those extra solder joints aren't doing any favors for the overall performance of those cables in a higher fidelity application though...
Also, I have some nice new low resistance field coil lead wires to try for the runs that are inside the box. Even switching those out alone should brighten things up in a pleasant way. When I first tried the drivers on our bench last week, I plugged them in straight to the P.S. with those cleaned up lead wires with the drivers outside of the box, the highs had a noticably clearer tone to them. Based upon the results from experimentation with cabling in the rest of the system that I did this week that positively affected the response at 10k, it might just be a case of rebuilding pretty much everything in the system really nicely and taking fresh impressions with this 4.5 Volt P.S.
I've played with field coil wiring in the past and it has a similar effect as changing speaker wire to higher quality stuff, but beyond affecting the DCR of the field coil circuit slightly, perhaps desirably "quickening" the relationship between the power supply chokes to be able to deal better with the back EMF from the field coil, I can't offer any other potential explanation as to why FC cabling can affect the sound so much, other than to say that I've heard from other folks who've found out the same about the cabling of these and other field coils.
But something good about the Feastrex drivers in general is that their sound is so robust, you don't need to be too dogmatic about following "the rules" with voltage, tweeters, cabinets or etc. :)
As soon as we get these Cain & Cain BENs in crates and shipped off after the weekend, I'm going to lock myself in the shop and work on refining these Alphas over thanksgiving. They still need more hours to be put on them before I can consider measuring the FS of the driver itself as well. Based upon the bass performance that's still been opening up, I am expecting a slightly lower number than the whizzered versions for sure. For a 5" driver, this is definitely something that I am excited about!
Cheers,
Clark
Still compiling notes from the Mark Audios before I post results from the ~ year or so of experimentations with them
-
Grainger,
I don't care if my customers are old farts or not, I just want to make speakers that work for their ears and musical tastes! So a supertweeter or boost of some sort seems like a very natural addition for folks with any significantly attenuated high frequencies in their hearing. My philosophy with a "mass market" fullranger like the Orcas is to make something that is more likely than not going to work well for everybody in its "nude" state, just plugged in and played satisfyingly with almost any sort of amplifier without any tone controls engaged. Or alternatively, you can look at it as the fact that they are close enough to "right" that the folks who know themselves to be outliers in the bell curve of frequency response in human hearing can slightly "shape" them to suit their individual taste. But in general, you probably want to start with something pretty stinkin' good before you try to band-aid your way to perfection ;)
I'm glad to hear about your Double Dungeness opening up. I'd suggest trying floor placement as well to get the lowest notes coming in stronger or perhaps the floor placement might help deal with any nodes in your room's frequency response.
Also, though this is something super basic that I'm sure you've already troubleshooted, (and I hope its not insulting to your intelligence to bring it up!) is to make sure that the polarity of the subs' input wiring is correct. I've had it wrong a time or two before I noticed what was wrong. And I was duly embarrassed.
I've also learned from extended use (and customer feedback) that both gain and frequency adjustment knobs should be set at just a tiny bit below the 10 o clock position (9:45-9:55) with most floor placements. The drivers get more efficient as they break in and eventually you'll need slightly less gain in the amps than you would when the drivers are fresh. In some ways, I've noticed that a tiny little bit less gain from the double subs integrates better from a psycological standpoint, though the margin for what constitutes "slightly soft" is really slim. I usually just tune them patiently and gradually by ear from that initial 10 o clock position to what sounds the most natural with all kinds of music. Then I almost never find myself adjusting them to suit different genres of music or anything. They just seem to finally "click" together at around 9:45-9:55 after several months and I just end up prettymuch forgetting that there's a sub(s) playing at all.
One more thing to look out for as well is that the knobs on the sub amps are actually lined up with the lines on the dials. Sometimes these get put on "a tick" off at the factory. To get them set correctly, turn the knob all the way down and see if the tick mark on the knob lines up really closely with the first line on the dial. If it is not lining up, then the knob can be pulled off and put back on in the correct position. We almost always catch this discrepancy before we ship, but it might be worth a check in case we forgot as it could slightly affect the "stereo" aspect of the bass in a double sub arrangement. For example - if one of the subs' knobs were one tick off this could mean that your "visual" match of the knobs (for stereo subs) could be a little different from the actual match of the acoustics. Its an easy check to make anyways.
One reason I like double subs is that you can ever so slightly compensate (if you need to) for assymetrical room placements that are often unavoidable in modern (I.E. socially acceptable) listening environments. For instance, one sub in the corner, one out in the room.
Cheers,
Clark
-
On to listening impressions....
Last night I had an old friend over. He owns one of the Record shops here, Raven Records. We had a couple of drinks, dinner and came up to a very well warmed up system. I was a little disappointed by the bass response of the double Dungeness subs. He wanted to hook up the Boston Acoustics sub.
Then I noticed the bass went through some dramatic changes as I walked to my seat. I moved him forward about a foot and a half and all was well. My seat was in a notch in the room's bass response.
Today I listened to Van Morrison's Moondance, Chicago Transit Authority, first LP, and now The Cowboy Junkies Trinity Sessions. Nope, I didn't hear the horrendous room rumble from the air conditioner. I haven't heard that for a long time. Speaker changes for better imaging and soundstage have lost that ultra low noise, and it is just noise. But the electric bass on Chicago's first album was very satisfying. Moondance sounded like he and all the musicians were here behind the speaker line. The bass drum and boomy old electric bass on CJ's Walking After Midnight is realistic.
I set them up just as specified by Blumenstein's site and haven't felt the need to touch the knobs since.
Grainger, Glad to hear that you've got the Dungeness figured out now.
Cheers,
Clark
Edited: initially I misinterpreted Grainger's message
-
Clark,
Last week the whole system was out of relative phase. I knew when noting imaged in the center I had something wrong. There are always 2 or 3 voices or instruments around the center spot.
The phasing on the tiny wire for the Dungeness Subs is hard to see. I think I got them right but will double check tomorrow. I'll also try a stack of Dungeness - stand - Orca.
-
Thomas,
After writing up and looking over my notes and impressions on the Marks, I realize that the only information I really need to convey is actually pretty simple. Like you mentioned, the Alpair 6P, 10P and 12P just weren't suited to fit into our "house sound" of high frequency presentation - just yet. Now these are still better than many fullrangers for the price, and the bass is just great and was easy to get from all the enclosures we built and especially so in the heavily braced and double thickened 3/4" bamboo "final" cabinets we came up with for them. So I definitely do respect the following behind these drivers. They are gonna suit somebody's tastes, just not mine, nor the local customers and close friends I demonstrated them to over the past several months. So for now we've determined to stay true to the search for exactly what we want in a mid priced FR and to keep an eye on this brand into the future to see the newer models they come up with. I especially have to applaud Mark and his team for overcoming a significant health challenge last year and coming out on the other side making drivers that are better than ever. There aren't enough people in the industry that care as much as these guys.
The other Fostexes are probably another story for another day, but of course their reputation as being "hit and miss" is well deserved. I promise I'll do a good writeup soon because I probably owe it to our community to share my impressions on them in a concise and easy to follow essay of some sort. There's a partial writeup of these impressions in a discussion in another thread about alternative drivers for the Abby cabinet. Because of my proximity (pure luck) to Cain and Cain in the early days, I got to bring home or buy and prototype with almost every model of fullrange driver that Fostex has made since 2001, even many of the Japan only special editions, and lately even a pair of the old style (whizzer cone) sigmas with the darker paper just showed up, awaiting impressions to be taken.
But I can't do any of this work with my hands just a-hangin' out on the keyboard. Gotta go!
Cheers,
Clark
Edit: spelling.
-
I checked tonight. The subs are in phase. I didn't try moving the Dungeness subs to the floor yet.
-
Yesterday I spent a large part of the day preparing and smoking the Thanksgiving turkey in my Big Green Egg fighting the cold and rain.
Also, I got the delivery of Modern Jazz Quartet's Live At Music Inn Vol. 2. LP. So this morning I fired up the system to listen to the LP of a CD (MOFI) that I have enjoyed for many years. The mix is odd, MOFI must have cleaned it up. It is very early stereo. Some songs are all bunched up in the right speaker (or it could be a bad connection in the phono setup). Others have Sonny Rollins in the left speaker, piano just left of the right speaker and bass and drums in the right speaker. The bass sounded very good with a lot of wood on the string bass. The cymbals have definition but I don't hear the extension of the sizzle that I did years ago. I'm listening to the Orca/Dungeness combination.
After moving the seat forward 1.5 feet the bass filled in very well. It seems to go way down!
Then I put on the SACD of Kind Of Blue. Just to test the highs. It might be cleaner but I'm still suffering from 20 years of industrial noise, a hearing loss.
Update: I got some of the sizzle back today by putting Kind Of Blue in proper absolute phase. When reversed the sizzle is one of the things you lose.
-
I was wondering if there's any benefit to using a stereomour to drive my orcas in a near field application. My sex has the cs4 board installed and so far the system has great detail. I know the stereomour has more power but I'm not sure if there are advantages of using it in this setting.
-
Thomas, I'll do a good sitdown comparison of these two in a desktop application for you soon.
But to respond briefly, while I've always recommended the Sex amp for desktop use, its partially because of the implied size, budget, power, and microphony constrains of a typical desktop setup. But if your considerations arent so constricted, then other options definitely open up.
In small to mid sized living spaces, the Orcas work really well with 3-5 watts as well, be it 2A3, el84, El34se, low power solid state and the like.
But I personally (and many people tell me as well) that the 2A3 or 45 tube is probably the easiest and ultimately the least expensive way to "get there." The 2A3 is the cleanest and funnest sounding "mid power" triode available to use with many speakers, and the Stereomour does the tube justice like few other 2A3 amps I've heard at any price, with the other most obvious next step up and frankly off the ladder entirely (at least for me anyways) being the 2A3 or 300B Paramount, also in Bottleheads lineup.
The continued commercial success of these models should come as no surprise. We are all lucky that these guys are pushing the performance to price envelope with these classic triodes so far in the modern day. In a sense, they've been under continuous development for 90 years. Just like Bach, theres a reason people keep coming back to the classics. Feeling great thanks for the beautiful music we have to share with our family on this wonderful thanksgiving day.
Clark
-
Got my Stereomour fired up today and playing with my Orcas. Some immediate differences I have noticed coming from the SEX is the larger more powerful sound with a boost in the bass.
It's hard for me to quickly switch back and forth between my SEX and Stereomour so making comparisons won't be as immediate as with headphones.
I'll post more impressions once I've had some time to soak in the sounds of the Stereomour.
-
Clark and friends...
I am as happy and grateful as a shelter dog with a new home.
Molly and Clark have seen to it that I have received a pair of Orcas. (I did have to part with a few dollars)
Thank you both.
A few things to get out of the way... First... Phil Townsend has been my name on various forums since the early days. I have decided to use my full name since NSA knows all anyway.
I am a Ham, K5SSR and have been so for years. But I can heard good and bad speaker wire.... They do not some the same. I am also a pretty good EE but thankfully retired.
I met Clark the first time at RMAF in the Feastrex Room with Joe Cohen and Hal Teramoto San. I am a builder of all things of wood and electric. I am also lazy.
Why build if you can buy something that is as good OR better than you can build yourself. Orca is that way for me.
Now I am not going to say the Orca is better than my Feastrex 5Dnf...
It is a very different animal. But bear in mind that the 5Dnf is around 4000 thousand USD. Yes. So how does a little 3 inch 40 dollar driver compare?
I am not going to answer that. It's silly. How does my Rolls Royse compare to my VW bug? Silly question.
But I will say this... You have got to get Molly and Clark to ship you a pair.
Love etc
Phil
Pure music player, Jriver, Ammerra... Etc....
Mac mini
Brick
Apogee Duet
Aurora 8 by Lynx
A few of Pappa Nelson's efforts ... Amp Camp Amps... Pass Lab x...
Some 811 DIY and 2A3 DIY.s
2a3 design stolen from Jeffery Jackson fair and square. Stacked ps.
Was a Sex amp to start... Now it's... Well a very serious well modded amp
DIY 45 with Cunninghams, quality measured in poundage. Iron by Dave Slagle and Mike of Magnequest...
No turntable.
No CD player.
No arm.
No micro Benz or denon.
Lots of speakers... Big Bens... Bigger is better.... OB ( with Feastrex and Altec 16")
Orcas, and a bunch of subs all of which suck.
-
Hi Phil,
Welcome! I like your attitude :-)I too am retired (disability) and used to be an EE as well, though only a fair to middlin' one -- much better at software and embedded systems. I'm also a lifetime wood, metal, and electronics designer/builder.. But I do have a TT in addition to my mac mini based computer audio setup, but no cd spinner.
I currently have two pairs of orcas and a beatiful pair of Clark's now-discontinued Nagas and a new pair of Rethm Trishnas breaking in. 45s and 2a3s are where it is for me.
Anyway, welcome again and just wait until those Orcas get some serious playtime on them!
Best,
Jim
-
We ran into a little hitch trying to source our regular caramelized bamboo of the right color and quality. We're having a batch shipped to the shop from San Francisco to fulfill current orders. In the meantime, we decided to ramp up production on birch to fill the void in the wood shop.
We'll have 15 pairs of birch Orcas and 8 pieces of birch Dungeness subs ready to ship the week before Christmas. For those who are longtime followers of the company, you know that this is a record low turnaround time, and we're encouraging anyone who is interested to get their orders in now.
Thanks, Phil, for posting!
Molly
-
Our new guy Tim Taylor (yes, that is his real name, and he's a fantastic woodworker!) and I just picked up our order of dark caramelized bamboo and its going to make for some truly awesome systems. So we are still on target to ship the majority of our orders prior to Christmas.
We will also be making additional components THIS WEEK of our most popularly ordered items (both birch and bamboo), and so if you'd like to get in on the action, let us know what you'd like to order from us, and we'll let you know the feasibility of getting your order out in time for the holidays or very shortly thereafter. We are trying to keep our order volume healthy and our turn around time quick through these holidays and thereafter, so if you've been sitting on the fence, now is a great time to jump on board with us.
We need the continued support of our fans and clients to keep this American made dream alive and flourishing for all our sake!
Cheers,
Clark
-
After having spent two weeks with both the Stereomour and SEX I have come to appreciate greater soundstage and air which the Stereomour gives the Orcas. After installing the CS4 board into the SEX amp, I found it did increase the gain of the amp along with the bass impact. The Stereomour Is able to expand the sound to a greater level and provide a better sense of completeness around each element of sound. A worthy step up in sonic ability for the Orca. Next step is to try some different 2A3 tubes to further unleash the capabilities of the drivers. Any suggestions as to what tube I should try is welcomed!
-
I changed the National Union 2A3's out in my PB-built Bottlehead Customs amp for JJ 2A3-40's, which provided an immediate enlargement of the soundstage, and frequency extension in both treble and bass.
Cheers, Hank in Eugene
-
Thanks for recommendation Hank.
I have seen a few recommendations for the JJ 2A3-40 which also happens to be a reasonable price. Do you know a particular retailer that sells matched pairs?
I have seen several NOS RCA tubes that are recommend but a matched pair is hard to find and costs at least $100 more than the JJ's.
-
I like EH gold grids. I get them on ebay from some guy in AZ that matches them perfectly.
About $130 shipped for a pair.
-
Tom,
The only real good place to buy the JJ 2a3 40s is from Eurotubes.com -- He is Czech himself and has a relationship with the folks at the factory, and takes his time to match and cull the dead and noisy tubes.
HTH,
Jim
-
Ended up going with the JJ-2A3-40 and picked up a NOS Telefunken 12AT7. Looking forward to seeing how they mesh with my Orca's which have been settling in very nicely. I'm not exactly sure how many hours are on them but I feel like they now produce a more mature and controlled sound.
-
Second thumbs up for Bob Pletka at Eurotubes. Been ordering from them quite a while for both audio & guitar/bass. Great service and good product.
Doug
-
Ended up going with the JJ-2A3-40 and picked up a NOS Telefunken 12AT7. Looking forward to seeing how they mesh with my Orca's which have been settling in very nicely. I'm not exactly sure how many hours are on them but I feel like they now produce a more mature and controlled sound.
Tom, thanks for the impressions. As soon as I read the kinds of things you were hearing out of your Orcas as close as 6 inches away, I knew you had gone through a complete break in cycle. For those who have not tried this out yet, this really is not as crazy as it sounds. They really are that clean/composed that they work at all listening distances. They truly liquify the music.
I too have been inspired heavily by K1000's (and many other headphones) to arrive at the presentation of the Orcas. While I do most of my listening from a slouch these days, when I really want an exciting ride into the music, nearfield and ultra nearfield with speakers is still "it" for me. Its the only option that is truly "in between" speakers and headphones. Giving you the impact and holographic presentation of speakers, at the low volume/non stressed low wattage physical environment of headphones. The bass is still tunable via rear wall distance and subtle adjustments to the subwoofer. And the price of a pair of Orcas is roughly equivalent to a respectable pair of headphones. Also, listening with friends and waiting to get a moment in the sweet spot is decidedly less tedious with speakers....but still, its a little bit of apples and oranges here. Like cars versus motorcycles, an age old debate about whats the most fun to drive/comfortable over the long haul.
I still have yet to try the JJ2A3, am scrimping and saving all our extra funds to assemble a kick ass Feastrex based big rig right down to custom Bottlehead wires, power cords, and a homemade turntable plinth. Its all inspired heavily by the successful acoustic design of Doc's own big rig. More details to come soon, but suffice it to say, my Xmas present this year has been 2 sheets of 3/4 inch bamboo ply I'm picking up first thing tomorrow morning to monkey around with in the shop on Christmas day.
I've been reserving judgement until I could get it to really work, but the little T96H tweeter shown in the photo has been doing a surprisingly good job of keeping up with the main speakers and I can't wait to see what happens when we get the wiring cleaner. Call it a cheap tweeter if you like, but I've got it extremely well amplifier off of SR45's running EML globe 45's. I've actually since mounted the tweeters into solid blocks of bamboo. They do sound better than the T900A's we sent off with Terry Cain's big Double Horns, but still not as good as the T500AMKII's I've heard in other folks' systems.
Yesterday we traded Paul B. a pair of Birch Orcas to for BHQ's packing room for an upgraded method of tweeter attenuation via a Submissive (from a Quickie). And boy did this tighten things up even a bit more!
We will be working with other crossover methods for these tweeters and some others, biamped and not. But the basic ingredients of this FR/supertweeter are definitely suiting my tastes for now. Its definitely a more addictive listen with extended treble. The leading edges are better defined all around. I can see now why the larger format (well respected) FR's tend to opt for a supertweet of some sort.
Cheers,
Clark
-
Today I'm listening to a Bootleg CD from Tape of a CS&N concert in 1991 (I think). The talking is very low volume but the singing and instrumentation is much louder.
This is Kick Ass Audio! The soundstage is better than the concerts I have heard. And I have heard them 5 or 6 times.
The stage and mix is astounding!
-
Hi Clark and Molly,
Any update on the shipping date of the caramelized bamboo Dungeness?
-
I got my JJ2A3-40's and a telefunken 12at7 in the mail yesterday and have been able to get some play time with them. The difference was very immediate and apparent once the amp had been properly warmed up. Vocals are incredibly vivid and life-like in tone and scale which was evident when I started playing Road by Nick Drake. Aside from better resolution the new tubes add more texture to the instruments which is also enjoyable. The gain also seem to be greater with the JJ's requiring less volume but still able to perform wonderfully at lower levels. The JJ's are noticeably larger than the Sovtek tubes but lack the nice blue glow which the Sovtek tubes emit. I'll need to try rolling the 12at7 more to see how much impact it has but overall the Orca's are very capable of relaying the higher level of resolution these tubes produce!
-
Hey Tdogzthmn;
Your assessment is pretty much in accord with what I experienced when rolling out my National Union 2A3's and listened to the JJ 2A3-40's in the amp which PB built for me. I too was disappointed that they had no glow; but the scale of the stage both at low and high volume settings is impressive, making the sacrifice worth it. The music does not shrink down into and between the Orcas as the volume is turned down. the stage remains wide and deep at any volume setting. The six-month warranty from Eurotubes in Portland OR is comforting too.
Good Listening to you! Hank in Eugene
-
Hi Clark and Molly,
Any update on the shipping date of the caramelized bamboo Dungeness?
Hi Demsy,
Molly sent you an email regarding your anticipated ship date. We're still sending things out in the order they were received. Lots going out this week and the next!
Cheers,
Clark
-
Hi folks!
We're running a sale of some blemished items that we have in stock and ready to ship. Here are the things that we have left:
--One pair of Birch Orcas left for $425 (very slight blemish on the fronts of the cabinets, just a variance in color in the birch ply)
--Natural bamboo Orca Subwoofer with 100-watt Amplifier for $399 (pre-loved)
--Natural bamboo Orca Center Channel for $299 (only "blemished" in the sense that we've been using this in our demo space, it's otherwise in new condition)
--Various Bottlehead amp bases starting at $65
http://www.blumensteinaudio.com/on-sale/
Contact us if you'd like more specific info or photos on any of the above.
Thanks!
Molly
-
Hi everyone,
We're announcing an upgraded model to our product line: the Orca Deluxe. These use 3/4" bamboo (upgraded from 1/2" ply), more intensive applications of our internal bracing method, and a wider, curved baffle. The Orca Deluxe has superior control, detailed upper bass, and even clearer high frequencies. The deluxe Orcas sound large, commanding, and calm, with excellent balance. We're now making Dungeness subwoofers in 3/4" bamboo ply to match as well. All come in Natural, Chocolate (a deeper version of the old caramelized), or Two-tone (Natural with Chocolate sides).
We are really proud of these speakers, which feel like the culmination of years of development for Clark on the compact fullrange design in tandem with the work on our Uni Feastrex cabinets. Locals should really stop by to have a listen.
Of course, there are a few options for existing Orca owners to upgrade to the new Deluxe cabinets. Write me at [email protected] if you're interested in exploring an upgrade. (If you happen to have a current order in you can also upgrade by paying the difference.)
We're still offering the Orca in birch, which we've dubbed the Orca Classic, at $499, and this is of course the standard for--and perfect entry point into--our sonic signature.
Read a bit more about the Orca Deluxe on our site (http://www.blumensteinaudio.com/orca-deluxe/ (http://www.blumensteinaudio.com/orca-deluxe/)) and feel free to give us a call or email with questions.
Thanks!
*Edit*
A quick clarification:
This offer to upgrade is for Orca Fullrange customers to upgrade to Orca Deluxe; our 30-day trade-in and exchange policy is otherwise still in place.
Molly
-
Nice! I really like the look of the two-tone option.
-
Long years ago I did some theoretical analyses of generic speaker cabinets, and concluded it was nearly impossible to make a box with sufficiently thick walls to make the box inaudible - it could only be approached with a very small box and very thick walls made of stiff lightweight material, and even then some sophisticated bracing would be needed. An Orca with 3/4" walls plus bracing has to be the closest approximation ever made. Kudos to Clark and Molly, this is great! I MUST hear these! I'll give you guys a buzz soon...
This analysis was confirmed in my mind some 5-8 years ago when we worked with the Magicos at Stubblebine's studio - they are pretty large but have 8-inch thick walls and weigh 500 pounds or thereabouts (just the woofer boxes). You could easily feel the vibrations in those walls even at moderate sound levels.
-
Awesome. Time to jump in!
-
Awesome. Time to jump in!
Let us know how they compare my friend!
-
Love the look of those two tone cabinets very nice.
-
Love the look of those two tone cabinets very nice.
Nice! I really like the look of the two-tone option.
Tip of the hat to PB for requesting a two-tone option for his own pair. We loved the look as well and figured we'd make it an option for everybody. PB's set were built out of 1/2" but for the Orca Deluxe it's full 3/4" all around.
I MUST hear these! I'll give you guys a buzz soon...
Please do!
-Molly
-
Ok, I'm in. That means that soon there may be a set of Nagas, subs and amps up for grabs -- just don't have the room in our media room for all those pieces. Too bad.
-- Jim
-
Clark and Molly, I would like to hear your impressions of the new Feastrex Alpha driver as compared to the whizzer style. Kenji-san says he hasn't heard it and as far as I can tell looking around the net, there isn't any posting on it yet.
-
I MUST hear these!
Paul, please report back after hearing the new Orca deluxe. I value your opinion highly. Please take note of the Amplification when you make your analysis. Us 45 users are waiting anxiously.
-
Clark and Molly, I would like to hear your impressions of the new Feastrex Alpha driver as compared to the whizzer style. Kenji-san says he hasn't heard it and as far as I can tell looking around the net, there isn't any posting on it yet.
Aaron, the older whizzered versions are brighter, and obviously more extended in the treble region. They are pretty flat for a whizzer but ultimately slightly ragged (like all larger diameter FR's). They make great bass, but are ultimately a little light on it.
The single cone Alphas sound very smooth and relaxed, even slightly veiled, make more and better bass, but need a super tweeter crossed around 8-10k in order to play fullrange.
Both styles are a lot of fun to listen to, so I'd recommend listening to both styles before choosing your favorite. In our experience from people who have dropped by the listening room, some people prefer the Alphas, some prefer the whizzers. The two different kinds of sound are like two sides of the same coin.
Our production model with Feastrex is such that we are the cabinet builders for any of the current or previous series of models. In other words, the drivers themselves are to be sold separately by Feastrex and Feastrex distributors like Audio Feast (Kenji). They are shipped factory direct to the end user and are then user installable into our cabinets.
This keeps the total lead time down significantly because we are not waiting for (6 weeks) and then breaking in and handling the drivers themselves (another 6 weeks) before cabinet construction (another 6 weeks), unless it is a special circumstance and the drivers need to be sent to us for a special fitment or something. By not OEM installing the drivers into complete speakers ourselves, it also keeps us from having to bank roll such huge amounts of money through our business upon which we have no mark up. Also, it is the only safe way to ship such heavy drivers (cabinets separate from drivers)!
Our main focus right now is on reaching the numerous existing Feastrex owners who currently have their drivers in insufficiently nice cabinets.
Cheers!
-Clark
-
Clark, would you please post a freq sweep of the Alpha and whizzer version in your new cab? It's impossible to get any actual measurements from Feastrex or Kenji.
Thanks,
Aaron
-
Clark, you're a master of diplomacy!
-
Clark, would you please post a freq sweep of the Alpha and whizzer version in your new cab?
Thanks,
Aaron
Sure, Aaron, no problem. I'll get a chance to do that comparison soon when I'm moving the drivers around into some more cabinets over the next few weeks. For now I am needing to just leave my main setup plugged in 24/7 and totally warmed up to give me useful data points for the fine tuning of the rest of the system. They've been under alot of transition lately with the final cabinet construction.
In other news I am now running a DL301 MKII into an SUT -> Eros. Its a great combo for the Orcas or Feastrex!
Clark, you're a master of diplomacy!
Thanks! I do try.
-
Couldn't pass on the sale. Ordered a pair of Deluxe Orca center channels and two Dungeness to stack them. Let's see what the fuzz is about.
-
Thanks, Xavier!
Only a few folks have ordered the center channel/double sub combination so far. I'm excited to see what you think of it!
-Clark
-
Hey Clark, I just today received my new Oppo 103D. We should finally be reveling in BUF surround sound glory this weekend.
-
Aw sweet! Can't wait to hear that upgrade myself!
-
Got it tweaked last night. Kicks ass!
-
Tell us about your audio path between the oppo and orcas please
-
I got the oppo to take advantage of its great analog output. The system is 5.1. I might go 7.1 eventually but the chairs are at the back wall so I'm not sure how well that would work. Fronts are orcas and dungeness subs. Orcas are on angle brackets that Clark made, mounted on the side walls at 42" high, as my screen is only a couple feet narrower than the front wall. The sub will be a BUF sub, dead center under the screen, with a center channel orca on top. The BUF sub driver had an accident, so for now I am using another dungeness for the .1 channel. Surrounds are orcas, mounted at the rear corners about a foot above our heads and angled inwards and downwards.
Wiring is all Cat 5. Front are powered by a Stereomour, rears by a SEX amp, center by one channel of another SEX amp. Speaker cables for fronts go to subs so that the sub amp crossover gives a little protection to the orcas.
Delays are set in the oppo. .1 channel is crossed at 160hz. Stereomour has a Fix ahead of it to even out response of fronts. This means that amp has lowest gain, so it is set with volume maxed and rear and center amp levels controls are adjusted to match.
It's very satisfying, clean, smooth and with three subs will do the effects stuff quite well. Now that we have it pretty well complete we will have an open house so folks can come by and see how well Bottlehead and Blumenstein do HT.
-
You set the volumes individually?
-
One of the many great features of the Oppo is a built in volume control, so even with Bottlehead amps I have a remote attenuator. It also has a setup feature that plays pink noise thru each speaker and allows for individual speaker level and delay adjustment.
The Oppo is a really nice product, very well thought out and it's clear that image and sound quality are a priority. If one wanted to save $100 by leaving out the Darbee upgrade it probably wouldn't be missed too much, and then the price is not that much more than an upper end Samsung or Panasonic player. I suppose it might be nice to hear the super fancy 105 model, but even this 103 is a really nice step up from standard blu ray players.
-
I have a 103 without the D. I run it through an onkyo processor. Maybe I should try direct. Thanks
-
Yes, give it a try. I was pretty impressed by the sound quality, at least relative to the old Extigy I was using before. And as I say I wouldn't be too concerned about the Darbee. It's one of those things that you have to use at such a subtle level that it might not really be worth it. If you turn it up it looks like a bad case of photoshop sharpening control. The place it seems to have the greatest effect is in sharpening background images. Which is of course rather dubious considering that the cinematographer is often blurring the background elements on purpose! But it does also seem to help edges a little, which is nice with the CRT. I guess there are some fine adjustments for it that I have yet to try.
-
Ok. Off goes the onkyo. The oppo has two sets of hdmi inputs to connect other sources. I'm not in love with the idea of a digital volume control (I guess the onkyo is digital too). I have to build me a six channel Quickie or even a passive "ingot". Moreover since the idea is to buy one of the cards that allows the oppor to send digital audio to three dacs. I need three BH dacs!
-
Hi all,
Thanks to all the current Orca owners who are now on board for an upgrade to the Orca Deluxe. We're beginning shipping of those orders later this coming week and into the following and we hope that you all can share your impressions once you've received your set.
Our Orca Classic and Dungeness was reviewed by Jeff Dorgay in the March issue of TONEAudio Magazine. Check it out!
http://www.tonepublications.com/MAGPDF/TA_062.pdf
-
Now that we have it pretty well complete we will have an open house so folks can come by and see how well Bottlehead and Blumenstein do HT.
That'd be really fun, Dan, just let us know the day you were thinking.
-
April 12th is looking pretty good for us. The room is small, we can maybe squeeze in four at a time. So we might have to demo in shifts. I was thinking sort of an open house thing, just playing some samples from various movies and maybe stream something from a concert. Maybe from 1 to 4?
-
April 12th is looking pretty good for us.... Maybe from 1 to 4?
Sounds great, Dan! You can count us in. Please let me know if we can bring anything along. At home we watch movies on a laptop sat on the fireplace ledge in front of the couch and we pump the sound through a 15' long 1/8th inch extension cable into the sex amp which drives a 2.1 system of orcas and a single dungeness that are all set up high on top of the fireplace and tall bookcase. This tall placement gives a nice ambient "pseudo surround" effect. It works great for our livingroom which otherwise does not have a logical place for a screen or even a flat panel tv.
But gosh its been so long since I've had a complete high fidelity (both visual and sound) home theater experience like yours so i'm thinking that i'm probably going to have my mind blown. Maybe I should dig out my copy of Koyaanisqatsi?
Clark
-
Koyaanisqatsi
The most moving, motivating film. I think i still have the vinyl?
-
Okay - now I have a choice to make.
Pair of Orca Deluxe or Pair of Orca Classic plus Dungeness Subwoofer.
Any thoughts about pros or cons to either appreciated.
Thank you.
Bob
-
Hi Bob,
That's a great question and I just got an email from a fellow with the same question, so I thought I'd share my response with him here as well:
First, I'd like to point out that a Birch Dungeness can pair with an Orca Deluxe; the Birch Dungeness has the same exact tuning point as the bamboo and the construction is the same (meaning, you're not going to hear the differences between the two cabinets like with the Orca Classic v. Deluxe and the price difference between the two subwoofer choices largely reflects the difference in material cost and machining).
I understand the preference to not have an extra cabinet for the sub, but we also have a lot of customers using the Dungeness tucked away under a piece of furniture and out of the way.
The extra clarity of the midrange and high frequencies is why you'd opt for the Deluxe. The Deluxe makes slightly better quality bass but a barely measurable difference from the birch.
The Orcas go down to 75 Hz, so they do great with light and hard rock for example, but the weight of the bass isn't as prominent. Even some of the ultra low bass is slightly audible, but again, just not as present.
So adding a Dungeness is going to not only up the frequency response (down to 35Hz - or, an octave extra of bass) but also is going to add presence of bass, so yes, it is a noticeable addition. If you don't classify yourself as a "bass head" though, the Orcas alone might do you quite well, and the Deluxe has better definition in this area than the Classic.
I hope that helps clarify things a bit more, and maybe some Orca and Dungeness owners can chime in as well with their opinions.
Cheers,
Clark
-
Dragging out some old favorites today. One of my early CD purchases was Flim& the BB's Tricycle.
I remember my first listen to this album. A buddy at work lent me the disk and I was listening on headsets. About 15s into it there is a transient which clapped my ear drums together in the center of my head. I wasn't warned about how dynamic it was.
I didn't get my ear drums clapped together today because I was cautious. But the Orca/Dungeness combo did a wonderful job of reproducing this early digital recording.
Oddly, an American recording/mastering it preserves absolute phase.
-
Hi folks, we are currently offering introductory pricing on the Mola's
http://www.blumensteinaudio.com/mola-fullrange/
Its a great time to hop on board!
Enjoy the Memorial day weekend!
Clark
-
Things have been a little quiet around here and I hope that means everyone has been having a great start to the summer!
We're trying to take advantage of the lull by taking some time to clear out the b-stock and overstock we have around the shop. We'll be adding some more over the next few days, but for now here is what we have listed:
http://www.blumensteinaudio.com/on-sale/ (http://www.blumensteinaudio.com/on-sale/)
Also, for the locals, something we have been meaning to mention:
We're having an Open House tomorrow, Saturday June 7th, from 1:00-6:00 or 7:00pm (depending on how late folks want to stay). We've been having these every now and again so as to demo the new Mola speakers, as well as Orcas and Dungeness, to groups of folks as well as taking individual appointments. And if you can't make our open houses, do feel free to schedule a time to come by on your own during a weekend evening - we'd love to have you! Clark always has a few pieces of oddball audio gear for sale as well.
Enjoy!
Molly
-
Between Bottlehead and Blumenstein you guys make me want to move to the PNW.
-
Any more Deluxe owners out there? Haven't seen any in use pics yet!
-
Stereomour and Orca Deluxes both breaking in in the shop
-
Another Orca under the towel....so you have 2 sets! No fair;)
Enjoy!
-
It's almost never fair :).
I needed to steal the stands from the Classics.
Not sure how I am going to mount the Classics, maybe near field. The Regular stands take over a half sheet
of Bamboo Ply (@ over $150.00 sheet)
-
Did'ja notice Sgt. Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band is being used for break in?
-
Hey Greg,
How about a 3" diameter dowel? Do a google search and look for a company in Indiana (?) I forgetthe name right now, but I've always have had great service from them.
- Jim
-
Thanks for the tip Jim
-
Grainger said: Did'ja notice Sgt. Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band is being used for break in?
Today it's LinkWray and the Raymen "Mr. Guitar" original Swan recordings
-
Right on with the Link Wray there Greg!
We've sent out quite a few Deluxes and Deluxe Dungeness so far, folks seem to be enjoying them quite a bit.
Attached is a photo of our demo rig right now, which does double duty as my own computer work station at the shop:
Two Tone Orca Deluxes, Single Deluxe Dungeness, Desktop Stands. Driven by a Wavelength Brick into a Submissive and 300B Paramounts. Not surprisingly, the sound from this gear in the nearfield, ultra nearfield, and also across the room is superb.
I'd go so far to say that I've liked this ultra nearfield arrangement for the past few months probably more than almost any headphone experience I've had so far, and I was pretty big into headphones since I was a teenager and have kept my tabs on the industry ever since.
However, this stuff ultimately boils down to being a matter of taste and circumstance, Alot like cars versus motorcycles. Cars/speakers, even small/fast ones, may be ultimately a little slower and are usually less tightly sprung, but benefit from a less fatiguing ride and are more comfortable as a daily driver for most people. Motorcycles on the other hand are arguably more exciting every time you hop on to them, and will handle the most G's, etc, but are probably tough for most people to ride all day every day. And also look at how often people fiddle with them to keep them "just right!" And practically, there is only so much that a motorcycle/headphone can do (see pic of impractical free chair pickup from this morning!). Now, we personally own a motorbike, a car, a van and a truck. Each does its job. Just like the various speaker models and other gear (including headphones) we keep around. Each piece fits a situation (and particular listening environment). For my own personal desktop system, its been ultra nearfield with the Orcas/Dungeness/Desktop Stands, and high quality Bottlehead SETs all the way.
-Clark
-
You're doing all wrong. you take the seat off the bike, duct tape the chair in is place and ride home...John
-
I've been enjoying my deluxes with dungeness (only one even though I have two) with a Nak dragon deck and BH sr45s for a few weeks now in the bedroom. Not in a perfect location and I almost never seat on the sweet spot but still find them utterly enjoyable.
-
I always wanted a motorcycle with a kids booster seat. Do you have helmet laws out there?
-
Clark,
I too have an ultra near-field set up of the classic caramel Orca's on desktop stands, BUF Sub, and 2A3 Stereomour. The speakers are about 24 inches from my ears but I still get a nice wide soundstage and that reminds me of the AKG K1000 in several ways.
-
Sound pretty good to me.
-
The bedroom system was split in two mono ones. FM and tubes make my life at the office a little bi betterr.
-
Any Bottleheads out there have experience with the Thrashers? There's a model shop at our office and I'm hoping there's budget left over to get a pair.
-
I have a set of Orcas on order and was just comparing the dimensions of the Orcas to that of the Fostex Bass Reflex design for the FE83n. I noticed that the Orcas are quite a bit smaller, but have a lower bass frequency. The Orcas should go down to 75hz, while the Fostex enclosure has been tuned to 90hz.
All things being equal, I always thought the larger enclosure would have the lower bass. Would someone be able to explain whether a) my reasoning is incorrect, or b) what Clark does differently that allows for the lower bass frequencies?
I should add that I know nothing of speaker design, and that the above "discrepancy" has me very curious.
Cheers,
Gunter
-
I think you nailed it with, "all things being equal." The Orca has a very rigid, has a tuned port of bamboo on the rear and there is some tuning inside the cabinet.
I would say trust your ears when you get the Orcas.
-
Thanks for the reply Grainger.
I suspect the extra rigidity that allows Clark to not use dampening material plays a role. I can imagine that those materials cut off a bit of both the bass and the highs.
I am also curious to see how the bass reflex port dimensions compare to that of the Fostex enclosure, i.e. smaller or larger than the Fostex and how exactly that affects the sound.
I have to say, the wait for these is killing me, and I probably spend way too much time trying to figure out how they work. Will be great to be able to finally listen to them.
-
A speaker can have some response below tuning.
Depending on your goals, you can change the Q of the box to suit your needs.
Also, frequency response numbers are pretty meaningless without the "+/- XdB" specification. (I once bought some Sony ear buds at an airport that boasted a frequency response of 5Hz-100kHz)
-
I think we should all wait for Clark to reply. I have myself talked with him at length on various occasions about these issues, and I know he knows what he is doing, and has thought - and listened - carefully to arrive at his designs.
-
PB - I would hate to think that the difference is purely due to the measurement criteria, but I see your point.
PJ - Would be great if Clark would reply, although I don't expect him to divulge all of his secrets.
Perhaps I should just see if I can build the Fostex enclosure and compare that to the Orcas once they arrive.
-
Perhaps I should just see if I can build the Fostex enclosure and compare that to the Orcas once they arrive.
That's not a bad idea. IMO, the factory built Fostex boxes aren't really good specimens to evaluate the actual design, so going out and getting some decent plywood and doing your own build is a solid decision.
-PB
-
I remember the old days when you needed to have 12 to 15 inch speakers in enormous cabinets to achieve decent bass response. Speaker technology has come a long way since then. The Orca from Blumenstein is a fine example. I really enjoy my set and will likely buy another pair for my home office system early next year after I complete my remodel. I do feel however that a sub-woofer is necessary for some music categories. I use two of the older subs that have the separate amplifiers in a 2.2 configuration. The subs integrate nicely with the Orca's. It took a while for me to get the levels and crossover controls dialed in. But when I did, WOW! I'll steal a phrase from Jim R. And call them, "bass extenders" rather than sub woofers. So depending on what type of music you listen to and your personal tastes a Dungenes sub or two might be in your future. Expecting a lot of bass from a 3 inch driver is pushing it a bit. That's just my opinion YMMV.
Please do report back once you have auditioned the speakers. Make sure you break them in a bit before making any critical observations. The bass of the orca will dig a little deeper after they break in.
Here is a quote from Clark from when I wrote to him about the bass of the orcas.
Initially, the Orcas aren't going to be making a ton of bass, so you'll want to have them with their backs pretty close to the wall to reinforce the majority of what comes out of their port. As time goes on, you'll hear them becoming a bit boomy so you'll want to begin pulling them out a little bit more as time goes on.
-
Enjoying a pair of orca subs with my abbys. I like it. My new place seems to let the fostex tweeters work better too.
-
I think we should all wait for Clark to reply. I have myself talked with him at length on various occasions about these issues, and I know he knows what he is doing, and has thought - and listened - carefully to arrive at his designs.
Gunter - PM sent.
Thanks for the moral support, Paul! Indeed we have done alot more than just think, talk about, or even just listen to these designs, which is why my responses can take a little while sometimes... we are busy just filling our orders and physically growing the company fast enough to keep pace with demand!
Still, the only numbers that I ultimately focus on are the many pleased customers who agree with our design philosophy to the point that they are willing to see whether or not our little magic trick with a 3" fullrange driver can happen for real by just ordering a set and trying them out for themselves. The folks that do so are still coming back happy so we must be on to something. Its all about enjoying the music, you know!?!
And P.S., check out the new Thrasher review and publisher's letter from Jeff Dorgay!
http://www.blumensteinaudio.com/blog/2014/8/31/the-thrashers-toneaudio-magazine-review
Cheers,
Clark
-
The Thrasher review is just in time for tailgating season.
-
The Thrasher review is just in time for tailgating season.
How about a Quicksand running on 12v power? Won't make a lot of watts but Thrasher is pretty efficient I think ...
-
How about a Quicksand running on 12v power? Won't make a lot of watts but Thrasher is pretty efficient I think ...
Precisely!
-
I too am planning on building a portable system around the Thrashers paired with Quickie/Quicksand for use in multiple locations. I hope the pair work well together.
-
Just wondering if using the ORCA DELUXE BAMBOO with the Birch stands is a good combination? Have you had many customers that do this? What am I giving up using your birch stands versus the bamboo stands? Really trying hard to limit my purchase to $1200. Have never heard your speakers but have certainly read the reviews. One of my biggest hopes with new speakers (currently using an old pair of Design Acoustics PS10's) is a huge soundstage with lots of depth (and sweet sound of course). Using an equally old (but good) Denon DRA-345R receiver. Also, what color ORCA DELUXE does Clark and Molly think might look best with the birch stands? I'm kinda thinking the Chocolate as the "natural" or 2-tone might clash. Thanks!
-
Glenn W, The birch stands are sand fillable, so they can be made to be inert like the bamboo stands, actually. I personally think that birch and chocolate are a wonderful color combination. Alot like the classic Walnut and birch combination in alot of furniture construction. You would be very happy with a system like this, I am sure! They are imaging kings, and aren't half bad at making big bass and dynamics as well, within their available volume range of course. The speakers' design is that they actually benefit from being small. Less wood/stuff to resonate in the first place, true point source, and good genre handling, musically speaking.
Paul J, Grainger and Thomas, I think the quickie/quicksand and Thrashers would be a super fun combo. 4 watts is great with them. It won't quite disco, but it would get pretty close!
OT - As a bit of personal bragging, today I just completed a "Weenie" 30 mile/3400 ft. elevation ride in the Passport2Pain.org this weekend...on a skateboard. I was worried a bit because of the lack of training as I've been so busy 24/7 in the shop lately, but it turns out that physical work like that keeps you in good enough shape to do big rides like this afterall. I was the first skateboarder to do the ride, and they were supportive of me even though they thought that I was being completely ridiculous to do such a steep and constant up/down ride like that!
http://vimeo.com/93157872
Also, we have been producing and shipping more quickly and efficiently lately because of some additional personelle on staff and are about to get our order board down quite a bit. We already have a few pairs of things in stock as well. Chocolate Orcas and Dungeness, Birch Classic Orcas, and even our new desktop wedges as well. Makos will be in stock soon as well once we are done delivering the rest of them that have been coming through the shop. Photos on the way soon!
-Clark
-
Hi folks! We just added a new model, the Orca Mini, to the store for $299/pr. We are also currently running a giveaway contest on Facebook for a pair of them if you like and share our photo by Sunday. These speakers are simple, but handle complicated music with ease. They are tiny, fun, and flat. Very solid desktop reference monitors when there isn't enough space or budget for the Orca Classics or Deluxe, and they wrk with low power SET nicely as well.
Also, the Mola's and Mako's have been coming together extremely nicely, and we have been shipping them regularly and are catching up on our backlog, so if you are interested, then just drop me a line.
Cheers!
-Clark
-
You have my attention Clark. I've been thinking about a new set of speakers for my computer. I even have a S.E.X. amp I'm building that should pair nicely with the mini's. Is there any way us "Non-Facebook" types can enter the contest?
-
You have my attention Clark. I've been thinking about a new set of speakers for my computer. I even have a S.E.X. amp I'm building that should pair nicely with the mini's. Is there any way us "Non-Facebook" types can enter the contest?
The contest is framed around the notion that you enter by sharing the announcement with your friends on Facebook. Thus you help out Blumenstein Audio by spreading the word, and they will pick a winner from those who participated in the sharing. Facebook is free and easy to join, so it's really pretty easy to enter.
-
The contest is framed around the notion that you enter by sharing the announcement with your friends on Facebook. Thus you help out Blumenstein Audio by spreading the word, and they will pick a winner from those who participated in the sharing. Facebook is free and easy to join, so it's really pretty easy to enter.
Yeah, I get it. I still have no intention of caving to the facebook craze. My loss I guess, no big deal. Regardless, this new product from Clark and Molly is exciting. And I'll still spread the word in my old school sort of way, like talking to people.
-
I see there's a new model the MAKO fullrange and that the MOLA have been discontinued after a short existence. Cabinet size seems the same as far as I can remember but the driver is mounted in the center of the baffel on the MAKO. Why was the MOLA discontinued and what's the sonic difference between the MOLA and the MAKO fullrange?
-
You have my attention Clark. I've been thinking about a new set of speakers for my computer. I even have a S.E.X. amp I'm building that should pair nicely with the mini's. Is there any way us "Non-Facebook" types can enter the contest?
Don't be so hard on Facebook. I won a pair of Von Schweikert UniField One speakers on it.
That's a 4K grin.
BTW. The acoustic panels, the equipment rack, and the speaker stands are all DIY. This is a dedicated room I was building and then like magic these speakers showed up at my door reinforcing the phrase " if you build it they will come".
-
The speaker stands really made me smile. They should be pretty dead.
-
I see there's a new model the MAKO fullrange and that the MOLA have been discontinued after a short existence. Cabinet size seems the same as far as I can remember but the driver is mounted in the center of the baffel on the MAKO. Why was the MOLA discontinued and what's the sonic difference between the MOLA and the MAKO fullrange?
Hi there, Kumasan! Good eye! We changed the driver position of the Mola Fullrange and then called it the Mako Fullrange (the driver is not quite centered. A "Mako Center Channel" does, however, have a centered driver placement). Otherwise its essentially the same cabinet as the Mola was. The Mako Fullrange is just the top half of a Mako Floorstander cabinet.
Best,
-Clark
-
Clark, have you ever experimented with the FE103?
I have a pair that used in a 1/4 wave pipe. I really wasn't that happy with the enclosure.
Been thinking of trying Fostex recommend 6L vented box.
Any thoughts on that?
I have a set of 2A3 Paramours with MagneQuest Iron. (I'd be running them with a 150W 12" powered sub)
Thanks for your time!
Mike
-
I'll be interested in Clark's comments for sure!!
A quick look at the software, corrected for a SET, suggests to be something bigger, maybe 12-15 liters.
-
Hi Paul,
In obtaining ~12-15 liters, may I ask if you're simply adding some series resistance, or are there other considerations? (If series resistance, may I ask how much you would add for the S.E.X.?) Thank you very much in advance.
-
In the ancient software I use (boxplot) I just increase the QE by 50%; this is equivalent to a damping factor of 2 in the amplifier and is a pretty reasonable approximation for all SETs with no feedback.
There are so many other variables that I don't offer this as a design, just an interesting starting point for exploration. IIRC the infinite-damping solution gave a much smaller box, 4.5 liters(?) which shows what a difference the assumption makes! Also IIRC 100Hz bass with no damping and the small box, 50Hz with the big box and SET damping. The octave between 50-100Hz is audible ... :^)
-
Aha, okay I can see it's similar to (or is) an EBS type of box. This would be interesting on a wall-mounted shelf (to see to what degree the room gain fills in the shelf). Thank you for the damping factor / Qe tip! I appreciate it.
-
Ok, so after discovering Bottlehead's products and Blumenstein Orcas in late 2012 / early 2013, I can finally post this pic of my living-room stereo.
(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F68iqU5u.jpg&hash=7933f5036a3fcf018744f8e160ade7047e35f18b)
This has been an 18 month journey that is now almost complete. Just need to properly finish the base on the Stereomour.
A couple of posts ago, I questioned how the Orcas with their smaller volume can have lower bass than the Fostex enclosure. I still don't have an answer to that question, but can report that the Orcas are not lacking in bass at all. I am wondering how much improvement, if any, the Dungeness will actually lend to the system.
I placed the Orcas as close to the wall as I could, without having undue tension on the speaker cables, and they are ~3 inches away from the wall. Listened to Freebird, Sweet Child o' Mine, Mr. Crowley and Ain't Talking About Love. I can say the the bass lines and mids are beautifully balanced. I used to play guitar and noodle around on the bass, and just love the way those two instruments are represented. Vocals also sound great. Can't really comment on the drums as I don't really listen for that.
The Orcas with the Stereomour really go well with this type of rock. Haven't tried some Iron Maiden yet, but think this combo will just rock that as well. This is my first high-end sound system, but I have heard some 3-way B&Ws in the past. The Orcas aren't as loud, but they have great tone and instrument separation is just as good. And the Orcas look much, much better than the B&Ws to boot.
All-in-all very happy with my purchase, and wish I had more time to listen to some music...
Update: Listened to some Iron Maiden, Albert King & SRV and Dire Straits. All of it is handled extremely well. I just love the way the bass & mids are represented. Volume can go louder than I care for, and I have not turned these up all the way yet.
-
Clark, have you ever experimented with the FE103?
I have a pair that used in a 1/4 wave pipe. I really wasn't that happy with the enclosure.
Been thinking of trying Fostex recommend 6L vented box.
Any thoughts on that?
I have a set of 2A3 Paramours with MagneQuest Iron. (I'd be running them with a 150W 12" powered sub)
Thanks for your time!
Mike
Mike, I have experimented heavily, across many generations of the FE103, and its not my cup of tea. Like the FE126, (which is even worse), its got a very ragged response up top when compared to the likes of the Orca Classics or Orca Mini's.
Also, there is no practical way to get them down to 50hz evenly, unfortunately.
Best,
Clark
-
Thanks for your input! I value your opinion.
I guess that's why I was never that thrilled with them... could never really put my finger on what it was.
Funny, in different audio forum(s), people swear by them! lol
I'll probably just make ~6L enclosures and turn them into "shop" or "back ground" music speakers.
Then my son can whale on them when I'm not home...and I won't get to bent out of shape! lol
Cheers!
Mike
-
Can we hear more about the Orca Mini's? Is there a port at the back? How would you compare them to the Orca Classic? Thanks.
-
I would be interested in knowing how the Frequency response of the Orca Classic compares to the Orca Mini's.
Best,
Thomas
-
Orca Mini's do have a port in the back. They do not go quite as low as the Orcas, but only by a few hertz. I can still enjoy just a pair of them anywhere. A sub does take things to the next level of course. More Bottleheaders should just try them out and report back their findings.
Clark
-
If we are looking for comparisons I am in the very fortunate position of having in my possession:
Orca Classic Centre-set x 2 - Birch
Orca Mini's x 2 - Birch
Dungeness sub x 2 - Birch
Along with:
Bee-Pre (Stock EH 300b)
Paramount (Sophia Carbon Princess 300b)
Stereomour (kit to be built in the next fortnight with stock tubes 2A3)
Sources would be a Schitt Bifrost DAC / 2014 Airport Express (used as DAC) / Mac Mini (used as DAC)
I also have the stands and Blumenstein cables on the way to throw into the mix...
If we thought there would be value I can test a few combo's of the above if there is anyone juggling configurations. I won't even pretend to begin to throw around the audiophile terminology you see in magazines / online but I am about to start setting them up across the house and I would happily do some comparisons in the two room sizes I am using (4m x 4m and 4m x 8m) and give some feedback on how well the various combo's fill the room and handle some differing types of music if anyone thinks it would help them evaluate options.
Bill
-
I have a pair of Orca deluxe center channels on top of dungeness subs in my bedroom system. They are mated with a perfect and serviced Nak Dragon, a Bee Pre with every possible tweak and a pair of Paramour 2s with upgraded caps and iron (Cobalt pinstripe opts). I've had the Orcas plus subs for many months now and they always were OK. I have to say that now they have started to shine. Always chamber music (bedroom system as I said) and low volumes. All the time they missed the "box" resonance of a cello that my WE do so well. I have to report that they now do it. After many tries now I have a bedroom system that is utterly engaging.
I also have a pair of Orca minis at the office. They're still missing the cello box resonance but I expect they will eventually get it!
BTW Clark, we need a mini dungeness to mate the Orca minis!
Oh, please don't ask me to compare as I won't do it.
-
Nice bedroom system. I think I would be happy with that as my main rig. I have always wanted to hear cobalt outputs...John
-
If anyone can comment on the sonic character of the min compared to the orca classic that would be nice.
-
Clark have you tried the new Seductor amp with the Orcas? Any words on that?
BTW I recently received a pair of Orca Mini's in BB that are starting to burn in nicely and I'm loving every step. They're currently powered by a $20 Lepai Class-T amp which I'm sure is not doing them any justice but the Bottlehead S.E.X. kit is in the mail and I'm looking forward to getting it hooked up!
-
tdogzthmn, the Mini's are remarkably close to the full Orca's. The primary difference to my ear is the fuller Bass that the full Orca's have, however, while this is a clearly audible difference, if I drop a Dungeness sub into the mix in a room that is roughly 4m x 4m there is very little between a set of Mini's + Dungeness and a set of full Orca's + Dungeness. Both are spectacularly good and perform similarly to my ear when supported by a sub.
Bill
-
Nice bedroom system. I think I would be happy with that as my main rig. I have always wanted to hear cobalt outputs...John
Well John; If you are ever in Eugene OR, I can oblige; as my BH Customs Soul Sister linestage has MQ B7 cobalt opts, and my BH Customs 2A3 amp has MQ TFA 2004 M4/ten slices of cobalt opts. They feed Blumenstein Orcas and BUF Subs with Oppo dvp 95 and vinyl as sources. Lovely system!
Cheers, Hank
-
Can one order an Orca centre set with the same cabinet as an orca mini? TIA.
-
Can one order an Orca centre set with the same cabinet as an orca mini? TIA.
Oh- indeed! That is a good idea. If you order one, we will build it and put as an option in our online store. A single Center channel is 1/2 the price of a pair of Minis.
BTW, we have redone the website somewhat. Stripped down and simpler. We also have a new package deal up right now which is Mini's, the new stands, and the new Dungeness Max sub.
Give it a look!
http://www.blumensteinaudio.com/
Best,
Clark
-
Thanks Clark, I'm just sizing up a home theater at the moment, not yet making purchasing, but I do love your business, beautiful and simple products!
-
Two days left on the Stereomour and the shipping e-mail from Clark just arrived. Pretty exciting! Life is good.
-
Using some Belden 5000UE from the Stereomour, but uncertain what to use for the subwoofer to the speakers. Anyone have a suggestion. Probably Ill just order some more 5000UE
-
I had believed that I received a wire with my Dungeness subs. If that was not the case, I grabbed a small gauge wire and ran them from the Orcas to the Dungeness speaker level inputs.
The wire will carry no current, maybe a pA of current. So the gauge is not a consideration. The inputs of the plate amp are high impedance and are for voltage sensing alone. Much like the inputs of an Op-Amp.
I really would be surprised if there was a sonic difference between #26 AWG and #12 AWG wire.
-
Thanks Grainger, that was my feeling since in the Dungeness photo's it looks like Clark is just using zip cord. I also thought that wire came with the speaker.
-
I've been listening to alot of vinyl since getting a turntable again. The Orcas do a great job conveying the tonal richness captured on the spinning black disks. Digital is still preferable for its simplicity, fidelity, and clean playback. However, the ritual of vinyl playback is still very compelling and pleasurable.
Aside from the Orcas I'm thinking some larger and more efficient speakers would work well in vinyl playback. Hearing a record playing through a classic speaker design and tube amp seems more authentic to me.
-
Tom, our current favorite system is birch Orca Mini's, Floor Stands, and a pair of Dungeness Max subs. The source and amp is a Denon DL103r on a 16" Pete Riggle woody tonearm going into Paramount 300B's. Its a really well balanced system and sound. We are thinking of putting up a combo system special for this set of speakers to encourage more people to try it out.
-
Reposting this information from another thread about the proper hookup of our Dungeness or Dungeness Max subwoofers:
For speaker wire hookup, the lengths of speaker wire used for the subwoofer amplifier's inputs is simply doubled up (biwired) at either the binding posts of the fullrange speaker or alternatively at the binding posts of your stereo amplifier. Either place does not affect the sound quality. As well, it can be an assymetric hookup location in this respect without affecting sound quality, which is convenient as well.
The quality of this speaker wire is essentially inaudible as well, which is also convinient because the quality of the typically long length of RCA cable for the inputs would be audible. I recommend cheap high gauge wire that comes on a roll. This set of speaker wires only goes into the "from amplifier" section of inputs of the subwoofer amp, (and does not come back out of the "to speaker" outputs, which keeps those nasty electrolytic caps from being engaged). Its a pure and simple method of hookup, and only bleeds a tiny amount of signal from a Power Amp, rather than drawing 50% of the output of a Pre Amp.
RCA hookups can have some sonic advantages in certain cases, however, and in the case of Bottlehead products, RCA subwoofer inputs work very well! So in general, I feel that speaker level vs. RCA hookups for a subwoofer will all depend on the makeup of the rest of your system. While speaker wire inputs are universally compatible for prettymuch any power amplifer, some Bottlehead Pre-amps have a provision for dual RCA outputs ((one set to the stereo power amp, one set to the subwoofer(s). And they sound great hooked up that way with my speakers/subs! I like to match lengths (a less practical recommendation) and types/brands (a more practical recommendation) for the quad of RCA cables coming from the back of the pre amp.
Hope those explainations and tips help!
Best,
Clark
-
Thanks for the input Clark! I just installed my new AT120E cart on my audio technica LP120 turntable. Really clean and detailed playback, on my newer LP discs I can't hear the noise floor even at -20DB.
Do you think the benefits of the new driver in the Orca Mini, or is it more of the Dungeness Max that is making the most impact on the sound of that setup?
-
Tom, The way it is with alot of our designs is that what produces the resultant sound is less from the driver, and more about the cabinet.
That said, the Orca Mini driver considered nude is better extended up top, and is rated to handle more power as well. The way we use it, however, it actually benefits from the small, thin walled cabinet because of our "high tech" solid wood internal bracing, and it took us a long time, and many iterations to figure this out. The impulse response and frequency response is phenomenal. The Dungeness Max subs are also bigger, and go lower and are more powerful than the Dungeness Classic/Deluxe subs... but this is for a more nuanced reason than you might think. We still feel that the Dungeness Classic sub is actually the right sub for the Orca Classics. And so too, the Orca Mini's go best with the Dungeness Max, and don't really work very well with the smaller Dungeness Classic.
The "sound" of the Dungeness Max (if a subwoofer can be thought of as having a characteristic sound) is most importantly in keeping with the overall sound making aesthetic of the Mini- which is more geared towards extension, neutrality and flatness, and still remains a manageable size.
On the other hand, I still think of the Orca Classics as our "classic" sound. I don't want to go out on a limb and say that it was inspired from "classic" audio, but as a music historian and audio history nut, the Classic's design, which evolved for 8 years of uninterrupted production and refinement couldn't help but have been inspired by all the amazing old and new gear that I've heard over the years. And you can see the influences of classic audio in the materials - All paper cones including the subwoofer versus the Orca Mini/Max's use of aluminum in the fullranger's dust cap and subwoofer's cone for assistance in reproducing transients from the same driver diameters - 3" and 6.5".
We have thought long and hard about the way that the Orca Classics' sound ought to make someone feel. But of course, people who do not prioritize "feelings," in the way they experience their music might dismiss this approach as hooey. But most people immediately respond to the sound aesthetic of the Classics when they first hear them in person. They are smooth and seductive. Never a bad thing :)
The Orca Minis/Max are meant for a more performance oriented reproduction but still with the character of a single driver. And still with the all wood, undamped, no BS cabinetry and so they still retain alot of our "classic" signature sound. We sought out to innovate with the woodwork of the Mini's and Maxes. And we did!
The only downside is that the powerhandling/efficiency of the Mini is more geared towards a minimum of 4 watts rather than the 2 watts needed for the Classics. However, we have heard of people successfully hooking up their classics to 50 watts and more, and also their Minis down to 2 watts (or up to and beyond 50 as well). Satisfaction from amplifying our speakers seems to come from an individual's taste and implimentation. Just like everything else in the world. So - no real surprise there.
The Paramount 300B's at 8 watts provide the right balance between dynamic playback and delicacy for me and my system. I like to play the Mini's and Maxes pretty loud and for extended times, actually. They do not fatigue the listener when pushed.
The Mini's are a physically smaller speaker than the Classics, but they behave like a larger speaker in practical utility.
You can think of the powerhandling of our lineup like this:
AND THIS IS JUST A BASIC RULE OF THUMB:
Classics: Minimum ~2 watts
Mini's: Minimum ~4 watts
Mako's: Minimum ~8 watts
Thrashers: Minimum ~16 watts
So the Mini's/Maxes are actually the "mid sized speaker" in our lineup, in terms of behavior, though they are the physically smallest speaker we make.
I hope that information helps!
-Clark
-
Thanks for elaborating on the differences. It would be fun swapping some Orca Minis into my system to hear how they compare in 2-channel playback with my sources and amps.
-
Hi All,
I've been away from the forums here for too long, but have been meaning to post an endorsement of Clark and his team. I ordered a b-stock set of the mini/max 2.1 system from Blumenstein over New Years 14/15. I've had them for months and have yet to find any defect that would qualify them as b-stock in my eyes - it's a testament to the amount of care and quality that are but into these products. Clark was extraordinary helpful throughout the process, and was even good humored about my over anxious requests for status updates.
Finally, the sound. I have a number of friends that run pretty nice home systems (both new and vintage gear) primarily for vinyl enjoyment - they are all drooling over what's happening to sound in my living room (even though my system still has some (glaring) holes in it). They fill up my main listening area (20'x30') effortlessly with warm, but precise sound. With a good bourbon and closed eyes, I can find myself propped right in front of the stage totally immersed.
So a big thanks to Clark - best wishes for continued success! Can't wait to see what you've got up your sleeve next.
-
Blumenstein Break-in?
I should receive my 2.2 Mini/Max system this week and I don't remember reading anything about speaker break-in for these or other Blumenstein speakers.
Any information from you bottleheaders out there or maybe some info from Clark on what to expect for changes to the speakers during any break-in period?
-
There used to be something on their site about break in. It was like 200 or 300 hours. And somewhere in these 43 pages I described my method.
The short description is on page 17, response 249. It doesn't mention that I put several blankets or quilts on top of them, they were on their side and playing louder than I would normally listen.
I broke them in for over 400 hours.
-
Thanks, Grainger.
I should have done some simple research and would have discovered the obvious. Sometimes I feel I have a life outside the internet and get lazy and just ask. I appreciate your response.
I have put about 50 - 70 hours on my recently purchased mini-max 2.2 system. I'm driving them with my new Paramounts from a sumbissive, using a Cambridge Audio CD player or the EROS for vinyl via an Ortofon OM40 (4mv). I also drive these with an S.E.X. 2.1 with great sound.
By now these speakers are sounding very good. I have been using headphones for a long time and still use my dual pair of 1970s Bose 901s. Most people FLAME the 901s but they are very good at fillling up any space with clean, clear music. But without the proper room they should probably be saved for background music. The imaging I have rediscoverd with these new speakers is capturing me and keeping me up later than I should at night. The spouse thought I was crazy at first (they were quite harsh at start) but commented last night that she was hearing more of the music. I'll take that as the compliment it was meant to be.
Thanks Clark and the gang for the great job and fine product. I'll post some pictures later and update the break-in progress.
-
Here is the key, I wired one speaker in phase and the other out of phase. That is, reversed + and - on one speaker. Then faced them to each other. This limits the sound coming out, making it more comfortable for anyone within ear shot.
-
IMO the Fix will deal with the small bit of shout that remains after break in. I had a Fix on the Orca mains in my HT, but not on the center speaker. We noticed that the dialogue seemed a little shouty in comparison to the music. One channel of a second Fix was put in line with the center channel and the dialogue is now more natural.
-
Doc B.
After running the 2.2 mini/max for two long days over the weekend the initial harshness (shout?) has disappeared and these are really coming into their own. Since the unboxing they have improved +100%.
I will be running these through their paces with a wide variety of music to sample their response.
I don't think I will need The Fix but it's good to know you have a product just for the rude, shouting speaker.
Besides, I have run out of space (for now):
-
Completely off topic, but arent those 901s ALL series 1?... I thought the series 2 had a white cloth completely wrapped around the middle part and the 1s were with wood like you have.. anyway, nice set you have... :)
-
No.
The original Series was not marked Series 1 because it was the first one and they weren't looking at putting out another "series". The Series 2 came out shortly afterwards with very minor changes (marketing strategy?).
Bose offered a choice of cabinets at the time and I chose the Walnut Facing cabinet when I bought the first pair and then was able to match the cabinet style with the Series 2 a couple of years later. They stopped offering the Walnut Facing cabinet in a later series, I don't know which one.
The Series 1 and 2 had nearly identical graphic equalizers and either one can be used to drive both Series.
-
You might be able to drive the stacked 901s off of the Paramounts if you set them to 4 Ohms and don't use the equalizers.
They will have a lot of midrange. Bwa, Ha, Ha, Ha ! ! !
-
Grainger
They are wired for 4 ohms now and I've run them off the S.E.X. 2.1 prior to finishing the Paramounts.
They are not very sensitive speakers and they max-out the S.E.X 2W/ch.
They are thin without the equalizer. After over 3 decades of listening to the 901s with their equalizer I can tell in an instant when it is not connected. The equalizer is a must with these.
Mid-Range: Isn't that where we live, in the mid-range?
BTW, the effective surface area of the nine 4.5 " drivers is about the same as a 13" woofer. The bass is smooth and articulate (same for the treble) due to the 4.5" driver's relative quick response.
However, your evil laughter is appropriate and this would not satisfy a Bass Head nor imaging junkie.
-
Ok thank you.. i understand now.. didnt know bose offered a choice of cloth or walnut in the series 1 and 2... the series 3 was where they changed the original look and both the 3 and 4 can be used with either equalizer as well.. the main difference was the power handling of the 4 where they started to claim the "unlimited power under non commercial applications" moniker... interesting.. again, thank you for the clarity.... and yes absolutely!!.. my 4s back in the day, would sound like a tin can with the equalizer off... quite a shocking difference when the equalizer is engaged again... had DANG fun times with those in the day.... (1980s).. ok sorry , back on topic again.....
-
I have about 45 hours on my min/max 2.2. The shouteyness (is that a word?), is getting to be much less prevalent and the bass is really coming along nicely as the surrounds loosen up.
The last 2 months have been a tremendous change in my system. The addition of an analog source has made more difference (positive), than anything else I have done. Then the Elrog 300b tubes are simply marvelious. I have read that the Reduction has a narrow sound stage and that's what I hear.
Does the Eros have a wider sound stage?
(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1161.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fq517%2FPatmcsween%2F655b508449a0e8074749fef9b4d0cd38.jpg&hash=6a124acb61fb5cfac1c9b06d17b437b42993e86d)
-
Awesome to see everyone's adventures with their speakers. As a quick note, please know that we are always around for setup advice. Photos help. for instance - Pat, I bet that if you toe those Orcas in a little bit more and pull them 4 more inches out into the room you will hear the soundstage improve a little bit. I also have the Eros and Seduction but not the Reduction. I know that the Reduction is based on the Seduction, so I can't comment on the Reduction but I can tell you that the Eros was a substantial improvement over the Seduction. So great to see you enjoying Analog :) I like it all of course...
Big news!
We just relaunched the Bottlehead Bases on the website. You can find them in our online store under "Accessories."
http://www.blumensteinaudio.com/amplifierbases/
We have substantially upgraded the design and only slightly raised the pricing on them. New *standard* features include 3/4 inch construction, upgraded vibration damping feet, and better ventilation via custom drilled wooden bottom plates. As our product design process tends to go, we are very customer driven. These were all custom requests that had been ordered at one time or another by various clients, and we decided to put all these upgrades together into a nicer overall standard offering. We feel that the Bottlehead amps deserve this kind of luxurious treatment.
Also, to cut down on confusion, It is also a flat rate for each base - So the Beepree is the same cost as the Crack. I know this seems counterintuitive, but the wood cost to us for a larger or a smaller base is not such a big deal as the labor. (though the birch vs. bamboo does add up a bit.) The labor also does not vary significantly between a BeePree and a Crack, so hence the flat rate. Just specify in the notes field which BH model you are trying to fit, if you are choosing Bamboo, then let us know Natural, Two Tone, or Caramelized, and you are good. Simple.
We are also entertaining custom base orders in solid woods. These orders are to be set up through email and the prices will vary quite widely depending upon the wood species. We built bases for Debra K back in August and really enjoyed the process so we are deciding to offer these solid bases as well.
That's it for now! We are adding some basic setup advice as well for basic and advanced setups. The Bottlehead amps will go under the advanced section which is still in the process of being written.
Hope everyone is enjoying their summer (or winter if you are one of our clients in the Southern Hemisphere).
-Clark
-
New bases look great!
-
(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic1.squarespace.com%2Fstatic%2F5189ec9ee4b0f73b54ffec99%2F521c3729e4b03dae28cfa1bc%2F533dd98ce4b01b8f6b752004%2F1396562328857%2Fphoto%2B2%2B%252825%2529.JPG%3Fformat%3D300w&hash=5a88dd2bca4e31c2aadd4385f9951a91ddbce86c)
That's a nice looking base!
-
Dang, they sure do...
-
I have 2 paramours, a seduction, a crack and a foreplay III. do you have base for these? if so, what is the cost? Thanks.
-
I have 2 paramours, a seduction, a crack and a foreplay III. do you have base for these? if so, what is the cost? Thanks.
Here's the link to the product page:
http://www.blumensteinaudio.com/amplifierbases/ (http://www.blumensteinaudio.com/amplifierbases/)
Every question you've asked is answered on that page.
You should mention whether you have the original Paramour (6x10) or the newer Paramours (8x10) when ordering.
-PB
-
Can anyone comment on Orca Mini vs Deluxe (and with/without sub/s) driven by Stereomour II or SEX 2.0?
-
I would be interested to know if anyone here has a pair of thrashers as their daily speakers. Seems like most users here have the Orcas but I haven't seem much on the web about them.
Best,
Thomas
-
I have pair of Thrashers hooked up to my Stereomour, they sound fantastic and easily fill a good sized room. In fact my partner reckons she prefers the sound of the Stereomour + Thrashers to our Orca's + Sub... Not sure I would go quite so far as to agree with that assessment but I would have absolutely no hesitation recommending you pick up a set of Thrashers if you had the opportunity...
-
Thanks for the response.
I also have the Stereomour so I'm glad youre getting good sound from it driven by the Thrashers.
-
Can anyone comment on Orca Mini vs Deluxe (and with/without sub/s) driven by Stereomour II or SEX 2.0?
Thanks for chiming in, folks!
Denti's question for a comparison might be a little more complicated, so I'll handle it.
Firstly, it is important to bear in mind that either the Deluxes or Mini's would work great with either the Sex (2.1 did you mean?) or Stereomour II - and that the viability of these combos is echoed by users' experiences on this forum and elsewhere.
The Deluxes are happy at a slightly lower playback level and are a little creamier in tone, whereas the Mini's are a little more bright and slightly more direct and neutral sounding and have slightly flatter frequency response, but do trade off a little bit of mid bass weight.
Both speakers have their own kind of magic, of course. These differences are intentionally very slight.
I consider our brand to be like a good selection of wine - you'll like each variety or blend for a particular reason, and each has a reason/purpose, even if that is to just be mostly balanced in flavor. Yes, that probably sounds like a hooty tooty explaination to some people but so what. :)
Best,
Clark
-
the Sex (2.1 did you mean?)
Thanks, Clark!
I have the 2.0 with MagneQuest All-nickel iron. I'm seriously considering a Stereomour as an upgrade, using the SEX as a headphone amp.
So if I understand you right:
Mini: brighter, more neutral, better mid-range bass
Deluxe: smoother, sound good at low levels
What about the sub?
-
Denti, I would add:
We know that most listeners out there know themselves well enough to prefer either a warmer and more liquid sound, or a slightly leaner/simply neutral kind of presentation. Or they might need to play things very loud on occasion, but still need warm response all the time.
So we give people the choice between three different optimized single driver fullrange models that each have their own unique capabilities suited to different cultures of listening or different spots in the house, car, sailboat, camper, or outdoor awning, etc. that we have encountered over the years.
Each speaker model has additionally had its moving parts/cone suspension and frequency response tuned to match the average frequency response of the human ear within the volume range/intended use of each respective speaker model.
3" Orca Deluxes: Best at the lowest volumes up to carefully pushed high volumes.
3" Orca Mini's: Can be pushed ever so slightly harder than that
8" Thrashers: Are the loudest, most efficient speakers we make.
The Thrasher, if anyone was curious, has been designed to sound kindof like a gigantic Orca Deluxe. Thrashers can also be paired with a sub(s) below 40-50hz to some benefit. The Orca Deluxe still is king of its own kind of refinement, of course. But for people wanting to also be able to really crank it off of either high or low wattage, the Thrasher should be strongly considered.
However, please too understand that if 95+% of your listening is within low to medium volume levels, (and that when cranked up, cranked gently), that the Orca Deluxe or Orca Mini have been designed specifically for that 95% of listening levels that we find the majority of people actually doing out there. And because the Orcas are tuned for this uncommonly considered, but commonly experienced low volume performance (literally, the "silent majority" of music listeners), then the Orcas are therefore slightly superior speakers to the Thrashers within those volume ranges. Horses for courses.
Also, the Deluxes and Mini's, being so physically small in footprint, are better at portraying an accurate soundstage at lower volumes than typical speakers are capable of, and do also have the more ideal impulse response, dispersion, imaging traits than a larger speaker which are important at any volume level.
Its also important to understand that the Mini's and Deluxes can probably be pushed much harder and remain much cleaner than one might think, given an optimized audio system and associated subwoofer(s). Even compared to the Thrashers, the Mini's and Deluxes are respectably loud. Not your typical wimpy little 3" design in. the. slightest. I still find myself caught by surprise at the high volume performance of the Deluxes and Mini's when carefully driven and warmed up during a long listening session.
The first audible difference that people tend to pick up on (in my showroom) between the Mini and Deluxe when used without a subwoofer is the bass rolloff point, which is 10 hz higher for the Mini.
However, with a subwoofer, this difference in bass response between the Mini and Deluxe is significantly less apparent. The Deluxes use a little less of the sub, and so too the Deluxes seem to handle just a little bit less power than the Mini's (because the Deluxe cone is being asked to go lower, and it is also of a more delicate construction than the Mini cone). The Mini's is having more of its bass response supported by the subwoofer, and therefore can "lean" on the power of the subwoofer a little more and gain slightly extra upper volume capability than the Deluxe in that way as well.
The Mini's also have a slightly beefier voice coil and slightly stiffer cone suspension that can take a few more watts. The magnet is also slightly more powerful. The middle of the midrange is almost pancake flat, which lends the speaker very well to multimedia and monitoring of difficult music in the closest nearfield.
However, understand that the unconventional delicacy in cone material and cone suspension is key to the Deluxe's openness and dynamics, juxtaposed with their extreme delicacy and transparency at low to medium and slightly high volumes. The Deluxes also have a little more mid bass. which is a warmer "creamier" and more classic audio sound. The Mini's are a little bit more of a crisper, "modern" neutral sound.
Yet all of these differences are both important and slight!
Why?
In college, I was a music history major who wrote a thesis on the development of early keyboard instruments in conjunction with unequal temperaments. This involved the evolution of harmonic scale, bigger dynamics being written into the scores by composers, bigger dynamics needing to be played by the instruments, and so forth until primary musical instrument design (piano/violin) slowed down and piano production became more antique and nostalgic and less innovation (alot like most "blah" speaker designs out there these days).
But there is still hope. For instance, there are still some small modern piano makers of all sorts out there...way smaller than Steinway. For instance, some of them like Fazioli are pushing design boundaries. There are other, even smaller makers who are really pushing physics and materials science. These makers are huge influences on me as a designer. It takes immense courage to push innovation within classic, campy design or scientific communities. The many varied stories of success and solution fascinate me.
Since college, I am an avid consumer of modern music and media as well. Relating this music research background to the audio realm, I am not entirely unqualified for the task of having created this lineup of speakers that # 1 works with the actual music and media that is out there, and #2 are ergonomic in design for both the ear and living space, just as musical instruments should sound and feel good.
In short, as music changes, so do the instruments of its play. Which is the real reason behind your choice between a more historically leaning "classic" sound (Deluxe/Thrasher) or a more futuristic "modern" sound (Mini) within our product line.
I hope all that explaination helps!
Cheers,
Clark
P.S. subs in another post!
-
Great post Clark. I enjoyed reading this very much. I personally own Orca Delux, Orca Mini, dungeness sub, and Mako Floorstanders so I like hearing how they fit together in the line up.
Also, my daughter loves the Orca Minis you signed for her birthday. She will enjoy them for many years. She has attended the Grammy Foundation camp for the last 2 years and hopes to be involved in music production so I think she will appreciate them more and more as time goes on.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/38833957/Kayla%20at%20board.jpg)
Thanks
Tom DeWitt
-
Awesome post Clark, thanks for sharing your reasoning behind the development of the various Blumenstein models. I like how the same technologies behind the Orcas can be scaled up to the Thrashers or down to the size of the Mini.
It also interesting how the cone material comes into play with various types of music/media during playback.
One of the reasons I got into headphones was discovering how each one has different signatures which benefited various genres of music. Some of my favorite headphones and speakers have been what I consider to be generalists, able to playback everything I throw at them with satisfying results. I've felt that the Orca's musical and gentle nature allow them to shine with the vast majority of music which I've fed them.
There's always room for more innovation so keep on experimenting.
-
BTW I see there are big changes happening to the Blumenstein site! Clark is one busy dude.
-
And Thrashers are reasonably beer-proof...or at least beer-resistant...don't ask me how I know...
-
And Thrashers are reasonably beer-proof...or at least beer-resistant...don't ask me how I know...
Bamboozled?
OT for Clark. WRT newer piano developments, Nils Frahm's release Solo was played on a Klavins M370 which Frahm says has 10 ft strings at the low end. It is apparently an upright built in-situ due to the size. A most enjoyable album.
Skip
-
I'm pretty sure a beer bath is part of the break in process for most speakers, or is that just a myth?
-
Hi all, just a quick heads up that we did some major changes to our offerings over the last few weeks. Its all new, cool, different (looks almost the same on the outside)!
Best,
Clark
-
We've made some major changes to our designs at Blumenstein Audio in honor of our 10th year building speakers, cables, and audio accessories.
The link below is a discussion about our new approach to speaker, accessory and cable building. We also discuss the historic models that came prior.
In the shop, we have caught everyone on the order board up to the new designs, and have been shipping them out safer than before with upgraded packaging materials. Happy holidays!
http://www.blumensteinaudio.com/historic-models/
-Clark
-
I really like the new sub amplifier with the plate amp mounted on the rear of the module. I'm wondering if a stack consisting of an amp (bottom), Benthic (middle) and Orca (top) would put the Orca speaker at the same height as when using a stand. Thereby eliminating the need for a stand.
http://www.blumensteinaudio.com/all-products/dayton-outboard-subwoofer-amplifier (http://www.blumensteinaudio.com/all-products/dayton-outboard-subwoofer-amplifier)
EDIT to add url.
-
It would be interesting to have an active variant of the Orca/Marlin that also uses a Hypex plate amps. Then you could have an option of a fully powerd speaker system from Blumenstein.
I use a NAD D3020 with my Orcas and really like what I'm hearing from this little Class D amp.
Makes for a nice contrast to the rather inefficient class A tube amps I also enjoy.
-
Hey guys, thanks for the thread bump!
Thomas, you've inspired me to write a blog post about this topic! The NAD 3020 is great, as are some other Class D amps. I'm still very pleased with the Bottlehead 300B Paramount SET amps I use in my reference system. I also use cheap Class AB solid state in other systems, like in the woodshop.
Mainly, I would never want to limit my own choices in my own amplifier library down to just one design, though I have a few in my collection that I could really live with and enjoy - and these employ a variety of technologies. I am probably similar to many audiophiles in this regard.
I am not sure if I will ever make amplifiers, because that is a difficult task for an expert to handle. Just like speaker design is often best left handled to other experts.
Oh - and the stack of outboard Amp, Benthic, and Orca, Marlin, or Triton sitting on top is a very listenable arrangement, at between about a 24 inch high platform, depending upon the use of a component plinth below this stack.
We have been listening to these and have shipped out some of these benthic towers with Tritons and Orcas so far, with very positive feedback coming in about the sound of this new dual mono Benthic Bass Unit/ Dual Mono Outboard Subwoofer Amplifier speaker stand system. Each individual component in the stack is vibration isolated from the room and one another via our new low durometer (super soft) urethane feet (appropriated from exposure to urethane technologies in the skateboarding industry.) The whole tower can sway slightly, but it all sticks together and self recovers because of the feet. When its all stacked up, and you touch it, and knock on each cabinet, it is a very cool effect to see the cumulative component isolation going on.
Furthermore, if you employ one of our Seamount component plinths underneath each Benthic/Outboard tower, then the transmission of unwanted vibrations into the room is further reduced. Important cable lengths like the Anchor Chains are kept short as well.
One more extreme, but very good sounding example of an arrangement - and slightly taller stand option is to use two Benthic Bass units per side, and all of that driven by a single outboard subwoofer amplifier located close to the stereo amplifier. The subwoofer stacks are then hooked up with with one of our new, cleanly wired Octopus Cabling harnesses. We like this arrangement alot, as it is very easy to tune to a room, works with a huge variety of loudspeakers as stand/subwoofers, as the summing to mono for the bass can sometimes help compensate for room anomalies like asymmetrical rooms that typically result in asymmetrical bass response at the listening area.
-Clark
-
Hi Folks! I have another quick announcement!
We are about to release a few exciting new audio products and photos in our webstore as our expanded shop has begun to keep pace with our order board for the new design platform that we have been rolling out this year.
The website is always lagging a little behind the needs of the woodshop. So the photo rollout of our new design platform has been necessarily gradual to give space to the clients actually getting these first new systems shipping under the 2016 design platform designation (with wood branded fronts).
Most recently released (this week) were the Hammerhead Binding Posts, which can be fitted to any prior generation Blumenstein speaker for an improvement to the sound. They are also applicable to DIY audio projects of many sorts as well. And right now, as an introductory price, a whole set of these new Hammerhead Binding Posts will run you only $36. Did I mention that we use the same wire and solder as is now used in the Main sheet cables? Because its what's on the inside that counts.
http://www.blumensteinaudio.com/all-products/hammerhead-binding-post-red
In the previous post, I discussed the benefits of passive subwoofers, and how we no longer wished to produce them. So - as an available upgrade for the majority of our previous subwoofer clients, you are now able to turn your previous generation active Dungeness subwoofer (should you desire) into a passive subwoofer by removing the subwoofer amplifier, hammering in a set of these binding posts into 1/4 inch holes you can drill into wall of the sealed internal amplifier cavity, and then just connect the new lead wires to the existing (typically nicely broken in) subwoofer driver you've got, and then run that modified passive subwoofer with one of our newer, more powerful Outboard Subwoofer Amplifiers - for just a few hundred bucks in total cost for the sonic/convenience upgrade. Later, if the funds become available to purchase a new Benthic Bass Unit to replace your modified-to-passive Dungeness, then you already own one of our new Outboard amps to use with it.
-Clark
-
Quick update: We have released an universal upgrade kit for pre-2016 Orcas!
Check it out!!!
http://www.blumensteinaudio.com/all-products/universal-depth-of-field-enhancement-kit-for-pre-2016-orcas
Best,
Clark
-
Does anyone here (besides Clark) own a pair of Thrashers/Tritons? I'll be getting a pair and trying to decide if I should use my SEX 2.1 or Stereomour to drive them. I like the added ability for headphones with the SEX but understand the Stereomour will likely offer better detail and bass.
-
Hi tdogzthmn,
I own a pair of Thrashers...they have mostly been doing yeoman service in my garage system, driven by a variety of amps/receivers such as Sansui 1000A, a variety of Dynaco combos and lately a Scott 233B integrated.
I love 'em, but can't comment about how they'd fare connected to SEX or other lower powered SET.
-
I have a set of thrashers and regularly have them hooked up to my Stereomour MK1 and they sound great!
-
I have a set of Orcas and a (now discontinued, I think) matching orca passive subwoofer with a separate matching amplifier. I like the sound a lot. I'm waiting for the upgraded wire and binding kits for both that Clark mentioned earlier.
I'm looking for a general approach to tuning the subwoofer. The plate amplifier has two main adjustments: 1) a crossover threshold adjustment and 2) a gain adjustment. Currently I play around with both until I find something that sounds halfway decent. But I'm just really shooting in the dark. Is there a more scientific (or logical ) method to going about this?
-
Well, there is a certain sensitivity and frequency response that an Orca will have. And one could use the low frequency roll off of the Orca as a starting point for setting the lowpass filter on the sub amp. Clark certainly has good ideas on how the Orca and sub interact and can offer a great starting point.
But there are two things that make this more complex.
Firstly the low pass frequency hashmarks on most sub amps are only approximate. That can be gotten around by using a measurement mic and some measurement software. If you want higher precision that can help you see where the amp is really cutting off the highs.
Secondly, the acoustics of your room are very influential in the range where the speaker crosses over to the sub, enough so that an arbitrary level setting and even the low pass frequency setting that you might determine in an anechoic environment could be pretty useless in actual practice. Once again, a modest measurement setup can help you find room modes that might mess up the response and let you not only set levels and frequencies but also experiment with moving subs around to get the best response.
Of course even after doing that you gotta listen to the sucker and make the final decision about the sound. If you want a really simple way to take a first stab at this just run a frequency response sweep thru the system and listen for bass boom and bass suckouts from your listening position.
-
I suspected that things would be at least a little complicated. I'm looking at some android apps now at keuwl.com that might work with my phone. I'm going to start playing around with this and maybe report back with what I find. I imagine that a lot of bottlehead users are experimenting with subwoofers to supplement the bottom end with their low watt, full range speaker arrangements.
I really appreciate the effort that contributors on this forum ( including Doc B. ) make in responding to newbie questions like this. Thanks!
-
Part of my reasoning about jumping up to the Tritons vs the Orcas was to simply the overall system and see if I can get away from trying to integrate a sub.
My current room layout outs the sub in an awkward spot and Im also concious of the bass level since I live in an apartment.
My hope is that the Triton will be still able to fill in the low end witout the deep rumble that most easily transmitted through walls and floors.
-
How much do the Orca's weigh by the way?
-
According to Wikipedia, females weigh between 3000 and 4000kg and males weigh over 6000kg.
-
How much do the Orca's weigh by the way?
Its 8 lbs a piece. 16lbs a pair.
-
I wanted to share some initial experiences I've had with my new pair of Tritons being driven by my Stereomour 2a3. I've played them with a mix of music and movies/tv since they are the centerpiece of my living room system.
Right from the start the Tritons threw out a larger image than the Orcas. The added sense of scale helps with the realism of the music to come across as if it were live. The added body is also very apperant as the 8" drivers are engaging a lot more air than the little 3" Fostex.
I'm currently using Apple Music streamed through an Apple TV and Meridian Direct DAC for most music. This allows for me to pull up all the music I could want and try with the Tritons. So far they seem to handle everything with ease.
It's also noticeable that they will need time to break in. By comparison the Orcs have a more delicate and refined sound when playing the right music. The Orcas have an amazing level of finess which is still addicting in its own right. In the meantime I'm happy to listen as the Tritons evolve with use.
On a side note I've been very impressed with the combo of Apple Music and the Meridian Direct DAC as a source. Even though Apple Music is only streaming at 256kbs. It sounds remarkably clean and clear. Compared to my Vinyl system playing the same albums I don't feel like the digital version leaves me underwhelmed sonically.
-
New blog post!
New products!
New Bottlehead Amplifier Base designs, too!
http://www.blumensteinaudio.com/blumenblog/2016/3/23/raison-detre-clear-home-audio-is-the-hearth
-
Hi Clark - I have been following the Bottlehead reviews of your products for years with great interest. I am looking at adding a separate (bedroom) system using my Stereomour 2a3 and am curious about the Blumensteins. Clearly you have a lot of great reviews and many Bottlehead fans love your products.
I guess the question I have has to do with efficiency. It used my Stereomour with 92db speakers and enjoyed it but don't feel I got the most out of it with 92db speakers. Your's are rated (conservatively) at 89 db. Is there something I am missing? I would like to try them but have doubts that I will be happy with 2a3's driving less efficient speakers than what I currently have. Please don't misunderstand me, I am really wondering if there is a factor I am not aware of.
thanks,
-
Hi Drew,
Alot of people have good luck with the Orcas, Marlins and Tritons at low power because they are setting their expectations correctly in terms of the upper volume limitation that they need, and also because our speakers have many subtle design aspects that make them unexpectedly efficient and pleasing to listen to in practice with low powered tube amps, and as you pointed out, this performance is confirmed by the feedback of many of my clients.
One of the biggest reasons for this is that I have opted for a pleasant (bass oriented) tonal balance rather than the easier to zing efficiency figures that come from letting the high frequencies go wild - averaged out, shouty full rangers produce greater efficiency numbers on the cheap which is why many manufacturers do it. But if you are diligently making bass out of a single cone, then the average efficiency number isn't as appealing on paper.
We are after practical, useful performance - torque versus horsepower. And this factors into the specific ways that I design my enclosures - to work ideally beginning at low power levels.
Our enclosures, and the in house made damping materials we make for them are built for the efficient, well balanced bass reproduction out of a full range driver. The midrange and high frequency qualities are well renown. And there are many other factors to consider even beyond this blog post as well, but it is a good starting point:
http://www.blumensteinaudio.com/blumenblog/holographic-studio-monitors-the-marlin-3-full-range
There are other factors at play - like the idiosyncrasy of full range and subwoofer driver choices for their specific cone suspension "wake up" at low power levels. This is the way that I am stretching that specific driver's "torque curve" with my specific box tuning/power level dependent damping materials.
Hope that explanation helps!
-Clark
-
Hi Clark. Thanks for taking g the time to respond. I am clearly "baffled" by all the possibilities so any and all information helps. Still love the look of those Cain and Cain's BTW
-
I would say even though the Orcas are less efficient than the Tritons they seem to play louder on the Stereomour. I found myself having the volume set lower with the Orcas despite their lower efficiency. I would be confident that the pairing would be more than enough for a bedroom system.
-
Thanks for the comment. I am not concerned about vo!ume though. I would like to understand how efficiency effects other qualities like imaging, soundstange, instrument separation, clarity etc. Having finally completed my 300b, I am curious if the 2a3 would sound similar through highly efficient speakers. In other words, does the speaker efficiency limit the amp from reaching its full potential
-
Ok, all you Triton owners -- especially those withthe sand-filled bases, tell me what you're hearing and what amp(s) you're using, as well as any source components. Also good if you can relate this to the Orcas )I have a later "classic" pair of natural bamboo with a single Orca passive sub (paper cone) and a pair of Birch DeLuxes with Dungeness Max subs.
I just ordered said Tritons (in Birch), but that means that eventually one of these other pairs has to find a new home (but not for a while yet (and they will all have the DOF enhancement kit installed.
Like Dogsdm, I'm trying to simplify and have a satisfying and full listening experience with more palpable dynamics, without the issues of integrating a sub or two. The rest of my system is now very simple and I want the speakers to fit into that general design idea.
BTW, the rest of the system consists of a 5.6w SE EL-84 amp, Metrum Musette DAC and an Auralic Aries Mini server/streamer, all being fed by an Equitech balanced power unit (balanced power and totally galvanically isolated from the grid.
Most things are still new and just starting to break-in, and I don't have the Tritons yet, just fishing for some feedback on what I might expect.
Thanks,
Jim
-
Hi Jim,
My Tritons are still breaking in but overall they provide a more fleshed out sound compared to the Orcas. The Orcas I had were well broken in and provided an more detail in the upper mids and highs. I used my NAD D3020 (30wpc) and Stereomour 3.5wpc) to drive both speakers and used a Meridian Director DAC or my Technics 1210 as a source. The lows on the Tritons are great so far and really help to add "meat" to the music and lessen the desire for a subwoofer. Having said that, I think you will want to keep your Dungeness subs in the system to really dig deep.
Despite the higher efficiency of the Triton, I sense the Tritons want more power than can be provided by the Stereomour. This is not to say the amp was clipping or the sound distorted but I just get the sense the Triton would be happier with more juice. I felt the NAD does a better job with more demanding music and movies although it does lack the refinement and magic I get from the 2a3. Surprisingly the Orcas seem to play louder on the Stereomour than the Tritons but this might be due to their more forward presentation and extended frequency response.
I'm looking into Hybrid amps hoping to see if I can get more of the power offered by a Class-D output with a tube pre-amp section. Both speakers compliment eachother and I felt the sonic signature did not overlap to the degree I expected. My plan is to give the Tritons a good "thrashing" by throwing a party or two so I can push them harder. Living in an apartment makes it difficult to crank the volume up I have relatives that live in the country where noise pollution will not be a problem. I'll post some more impressions in a few weeks when I've gotten more hours on the Tritons.
Best,
Thomas
-
Hi Thomas,
Well, my experience with el84s is that they sound much bigger than their power rating would suggest. Have you thought about the PS Audio Sprout?
Well, I'm not getting rid of the subs but I likely won't be. using them with the Tritons -- one of my goals is to keep things simple and clean. I also have a fairly small room and sit near-field. I've had another similar speaker that went down to the same lower frequency and sounded just fine to me. I think break-in is the key, and the sand mount stands could also play a role.
Thanks for the inf -- we'll just have to see what happens.
-- Jim
-
Hi Thomas,
The one thing I might suggest to upgrade in in your system would be the speaker wires - to our newer Waterline Cables "Mainsheet" speaker cable which matches the internal wire in the Tritons (versus your older Orcas).
The Orcas you had, being so well broken in and without any stuffing materials (that are found in our Depth of Field kit), might sound a little brighter in a "hot swap" situation in a direct comparison to a new Triton. With the Depth of Field modifications to the models I released back in January, I was focusing on attaining greater evenness across the frequencies and this does take a tad bit of the brightness away from the newer Orcas.
I feel like the Tritons do take long and steady break in before they are truly happy being run off something under 5-8 watts. However, I regularly demonstrate my Tritons with a 2wpc SEX amp to clients without undue playback level issues from that low of power. The drivers do take some time to warm up every session, and as they are larger cones, they do take longer to break in than the little 3" cones in the Orcas. When the 8" cone warms up it "clicks in" with the supertweeter and works its best.
Driving the Tritons with even higher power than that like hybrid, digital, and etc. does yield greater dynamics and scale - and that ability is the main benefit of our bigger model.
Tritons love my 300B Paramounts and other SET amps as well.
All fun to play with.
-Clark
Hi Jim,
My Tritons are still breaking in but overall they provide a more fleshed out sound compared to the Orcas. The Orcas I had were well broken in and provided an more detail in the upper mids and highs. I used my NAD D3020 (30wpc) and Stereomour 3.5wpc) to drive both speakers and used a Meridian Director DAC or my Technics 1210 as a source. The lows on the Tritons are great so far and really help to add "meat" to the music and lessen the desire for a subwoofer. Having said that, I think you will want to keep your Dungeness subs in the system to really dig deep.
Despite the higher efficiency of the Triton, I sense the Tritons want more power than can be provided by the Stereomour. This is not to say the amp was clipping or the sound distorted but I just get the sense the Triton would be happier with more juice. I felt the NAD does a better job with more demanding music and movies although it does lack the refinement and magic I get from the 2a3. Surprisingly the Orcas seem to play louder on the Stereomour than the Tritons but this might be due to their more forward presentation and extended frequency response.
I'm looking into Hybrid amps hoping to see if I can get more of the power offered by a Class-D output with a tube pre-amp section. Both speakers compliment eachother and I felt the sonic signature did not overlap to the degree I expected. My plan is to give the Tritons a good "thrashing" by throwing a party or two so I can push them harder. Living in an apartment makes it difficult to crank the volume up I have relatives that live in the country where noise pollution will not be a problem. I'll post some more impressions in a few weeks when I've gotten more hours on the Tritons.
Best,
Thomas
-
Thanks for the tips Clark!
The Tritons are fun right out of the box so I'm happy to listen as the continue to rack up hours. Do you have any ball park estimates as to how long the break in period is? I seem to remember the Orca's were around 500 hours till they really start to show their stuff.
-
Just finished doing the upgrade kit on my orca deluxes. Sound great! Its hard to compare the difference between before and after as i had the drivers enabled while i had them out and that takes a month. They beat my flat pack p10 uonkend with ff85wk enabled driver. Those dont go as low, the high end is not as smooth and the build quality between me and Clark is quite different;-)!
This is in my bedroom and I only have room for one sub but it makes all the difference.
The upgrade wasn't too difficult with the right extended ratchet to remove the binding posts. Small handed people definitely have an advantage. Now to mount them on the wall. Thanks Clark!
-
Thanks for the report Taran.
I'm lucky enough that I can get my hands inside the Orcas but by the end of the day they are all red, bruised, and generally scratched up -- still, it makes placing the balls much easier and less messy.
I haven't looked at what's involved with the dungeness subs yet, but I will be running them in mono with a single Hypexx amp with twosets of output binding posts internally wired in parallel -- this will give the amp a 4 ohm load so it can deliver the full 175 watts of rated output.
Did you do your subs as well?
-- Jim
-
Ya Jum my hands were pretty scraped up;)
I did not do the subs. I ran the pair of blumenstein subs i am selling now with one amp vs two amps and didnt notice a difference. Good luck.
-
Taran,
I'm listening to my old, second pair of bamboo Orcas. These are on the solid bamboo stands and even without the DOF kit are breaking in nicely and sounding better and better each day Right now it seems mostly to be the Mundorf silver/oils in the amp that are going through one of their "moods." that is the largest variable in the overall sound. I'm working on the DeLuxes now -- btw, a long >6" and a deep socket, or if you can get your hand in and turn a wrench, an ignition wrench will also work. I used a length of 1" x 3" hard maple and a soft-face hammer to pound out the old posts. (posted in case somebody else is gettinng frustrated at this point like I was until I got some tools to do the job with.) Once the DeLuxes are done, I'll move the african mahogany bbases into position, place the dungeness subs on that (with the Herbie's soft thin dots with adhesive on one side), then stack the DeLuxes on top of those. I may need to make some sort of mini stand to bring the driver up to the right level, but that should be simple.
Tried and True, the folks who make the finishing products, now make stains in the same way and still food safe, etc., so I'm going to stain the stack of speakers to match the base, which also matches my rack. I'll let folks know how this stain works, because I'm sure some other folks may be interested in staining their Orcas another color. Yes, this stain can go right on the Danish oil finish that comes on the Orcas, and you can put more Danish oil on top for more protection (or varnish oil is you wish) Colors are Cherry, golden Oak, Dark Walnut, Java, and mahogany.
Ok, bacck to speakers...
-- Jim
-
Jim, I sent you an email. I have a pair of short Blumenstein stands that go between the subs and orcas in natural bamboo. They are yours for shipping charges. Taran
-
Hi Taran,
Thanks fr the offer, but it would be premature for me to take them at this point. I am still not sure what the final configuration of my system will look like, plus I'll probably get some complaints from the interior design department about the bamboo and birch clashing (Yes, I've heard this before.)
If I stick with the deluxes and dungeness in the listening room, and they stay stacked, then maybe the stain will help offset the clashing. I will also have to measure the height of the deluxes' drivers as my speaker stack sits on a 2" thick african mahogany base with Herbie's threaded stud gliders underneath, plus my seat is fairly low. Then again, I may just end up with the bamboo Orcas and the single BUS sub. lots of break-in yet to go, and then some time with both setups to see which suits me, my gear, ears and room better, and there's just no way to predict that now. I will say that the older bamboo orcas are more than holding their own with no sub yet, and the back of the speaker 2 feet from the front wall (and the bass hasn't fully come in yet either, nor have the DOF kits been installed. The amp, DAC, and most of the cabling also need some more time on them.
Anyway, the point remains the same -- while I'm enjoying things right now, I don't know for sure what the system (speaker-wise) will look like in a few months and I don't want to take something that I may not use.
Thanks anyway for the offer,
Jim
-
Clark,
What are your thoughts of using a Super Tweeter (say, Fostex FT17H 6db slope at 10k hz) with the Orca's?
I was at another Bottlehead user house last night listening to his Paramount through Klipsch Horns and was wondering if I'm lacking some top end sparkle.
Regards
Mike
-
Have you tried a Fix?
-
Have you tried a Fix?
No.
If the speaker naturally rolls off and can't produce on the top end will the Fix help extend the top end providing more "sparkle"?
Thanks
Mike
-
Yes, that's the idea behind it. It is a filter that lowers the mid frequencies slightly to create a signal that has a little more top end and a little more deep bass, to compensate for those losses at the frequency extremes.
-
Hi Mike,
While I don't have your ears, I do generally have experience with Klipsch speakers and I consider them to be generally bright up top.
In regards to the single driver speakers you own, you've certainly got some options.
The Orcas I made pre-2016 used big brass binding posts that rolled off some of the high frequencies. This, along with a lack of stuffing material (which allowed the upper midrange frequencies to propogate inside the enclosure) resulted in a slightly too-rolled-off sound for some of my clientelle (and, eventually, me). So we now make frequency targeted stuffing materials in house (coral acoustic wave breakers) that are specifically engineered to absorb the problem frequencies (and no others) inside the small and large enclosures we make. We also employ newer binding posts and internal wire that are more neutral in presentation.
These are the main components in the Depth of Field Enhancement kit that we sell for $99 to outfit any pair of pre-2015 speakers.
Also, in 2015/16, we released a new fullrange speaker model, the Marlin 3" fullrange, that is voiced much like the Orca, but with a brighter high frequency reproduction and more neutral upper midrange than the Orca because of its faceted aluminum dust cap, thicker paper main cone, and smaller enclosure with a smaller front baffle area.
I do also own a Fix and this too will brighten up the sound if need be.
My own acoustic spaces, amps and sources allow me to not personally need to use the Fix in my systems with my production model speakers (Orca, Marlin, Triton), but the Fix has definitely been useful with other speaker projects that had inherently limited HF response like the prior generation Feastrex Alpha cone drivers, for instance. (the new Beta Cone Feastrex's should be ok without the Fix).
Between all these tools - my upgrade kit for your Orcas, or the Marlin model, all and/or a Fix, you should see some more sparkle arrive in your system toute de suite!
-Clark
-
Thanks Clark for your thoughtful reply!
I'll look into these mods before I do anything drastic.... like getting some huge speakers with a terrible WOF! lol
big brass binding posts that rolled off some of the high frequencies
Mine do have brass posts... but for the life of me how would they roll off high frequencies? What's the theory behind this?
Regards
Mike
-
Just wanted to give an update on my Tritons which have been seeing a lot of use the past few weeks. They are really a pleasure to listen to and I'm really enjoying the rockability they provide with the larger 8" drivers. Recently I picked up a Rouge Audio Sphinx hybrid amp with 100wpc. My initial feeling with the Tritons was that they wanted more power than than the Stereomour was giving. The two Class D Hypex modules in the Sphinx really do a wonderful job of controlling the drivers with authority, especially in the bass department. The amp will play louder than I'll ever need but it's good to know I get room shaking output if needed.
-
Thomas,
Glad to hear that things are improving for you -- sounds like more time and power are what is needed to bring these to life.
Due to some circumstances beyond my control I unfortunately had to cancel my Triton order. Not at all what I wanted to do, but my hands are tied.
For those working on the DOF upgrade, I finally managed to get the binding posts out yesterday. Hint: do not try to do it from the outside. I used a socket wrench with a couple of extensions and the right size socket for the small nuts that hold the binding post and sandwich the terminals that the wires are connected to. That was easy. The second nut was the real pain -- mostly because none of my tools -- socket wrench or nut drivers were deep enough to go over the binding post and get a grip on the nut. A deep socket would do the trick though. So, I ended up using the only thing I had left -- an ignition wrench of the right size (I apologize, but I can't tell you what the size of the nuts are.) Yes, it was tedious, but once a certain point I could back the nuts off with my fingers. I don't know how you folks with larger hands are going to manage this -- probably going out and buying a deep socket for the job. I then gave the binding posts a whack with a soft-faced mallet and a block of wood. That was enough to get them started and then I just grabbed the outsides with a pair of pliers and pulled and wiggled them out. Tomorrow I'll start gluing the wave breaker balls into place and then I can put these bad boys back in service.
I'm still not sure if I'm going to stain them or not -- it will probably depend on how good of a job I can do, but also how close of a match I can get.
Patience, patience I keep telling myself :-).
-- Jim
-
I was able to get to the nuts with a deep socket 10mm and an 8" extension. I found that a slight turn from the outside made pounding out the old binding posts easier - but you still need to tap them out fairly aggressively with a block of wood and hammer. The other thing to be prepared for is a fair amount of wait time as the silicone sets up. You can really only do one ball at a time and then wait 2 hours before moving on to the next one. Plan on a day elapsed time. Final hint is to use the chop stick trick that Clark suggests. Jim, I know by feel will work best for you but know that there are some structural supports that run diagonally and might make finding middle a little confusing. Using chop sticks and a flash light I could see where I was placing the balls to find the middle spot.
I've been listening over the last week to the modification and really like it. What strikes me is the increase in "focus". It's like someone put an adjustable lens between the speaker and me and dialed in the placement of the instruments and voices.
Rick
-
Hi Rick,
Thanks for the poinnters though I am one of those whocan get my whole hand and a good bit of my arm in the Orca. I've felt all around and the location of all the braces so I should just be able to place these by hand -- and of course let them sit resting on that side until everything is cured. Yes, it doesn't go fast, but that's ok -- I have the other pair playing as I work on this pair. Then I'll just flip it around when it comes time to do the other pair.
I'm still debating on hether or not I should get the kit for my old BUF sub, and my first, original pair of caramelized bamboo Orcas ith the binding post cup. I probably will, but will have to sell some more stuff before I do.
I really can't wait to listejn to this, and especially when they are fully broken-in.
Take care, and thanks again,
Jim
-
It would be nice to see some photo documentation of the installation procedure for the DOF upgrade kit. Make it helpful to those in the future that decide to upgrade their Orcas.
-
Thomas,
I'd like to help but I'm not a very good photographer )ok, I'm a crappy one :-).) I like the idea though, especially with the subs -- I haven't even started on the subs yet.
Maybe somebody else here will step up to the plate.
-- Jim
-
Clark provides a well-written installation guide with photographs that I found very helpful.
Rick
-
It is hard to get the ball on the bottom and on each side under the brace. I found a mechanics tool called a claw grabber worked unbelievable (i kept dropping the ball with chopsticks). Luckily at a bottlehead amp building class I was given a tool set that had this device in there. Its been unused for a decade or so but boy did I find its usefulness! You can actually grab the balls tightly. Push them tight to the surface and it releases easily without disturbing the ball. I always added the drop of superglue with the silicone too - it seemed to speed up the set time.
-
Taran, I've since edited the manual to recommend the use of one of those grabber tools, which are actually quite cheap as you don't need a long one, and I've also switched to quick set silicone that I include. The use of superglue and silicone is fine too to speed the dry time.
-
I have my DoF kit coming, so can someone post a link to where I can purchase the grabber tool?
-
Home Depot has one on their website for $8.97.
-
Just google mechanics claw tool
-
I use the Crescent Model # PSX200C long needle nose pliers from Home Depot. Fabulous control.
-
One of my Hammerhead posts broke today, so I replaced it with the original metal posts. To my ears the Orca's high frequencies seem more extended. Also replaced the Radio Shack 16 ga subwoofer wires with Belken 1694A. Again, to my ears...big improvement to the Dungeness. I've long ago given up trying to figure out whats fact and whats a sever case of audio fantasy.
-
I'm glad Clark has a helpful guide for those installing the upgrade!
-
Changing the subject a bit...
If there's anybody out there who had the older bamboo Orcas with the 1/2" walls and then got a pair of the 3/4" birch Orca DeLuxes, can you tell me what kind of sonic differences you heard, if any, and if you installed the DOF in either or both pairs, what those differencees were like?
Thanks,
Jim
-
Ok, that last one went nowhere, so let's try something else...
Has anybody out there bought and is using the Baby Bentic sub?
I just bought a pair of these to finish my system. I love the Orcas as they are for a lot of music, but there is still a lot of music that really needs that low frequency foundation to sound it's best.
So, checking for any early user feedback on the Baby Benthics.
Thanks,
Jim
-
Ok, again, got nowhere with that last one either. Though I see that the "Baby" benthics are still not listed on the blumenstein site. Well, I think/hope that these will be the answer for extending the bottom end for those of us with small spaces, who live in apartments/condos, etc. who want to fill in the lower frequencies without annoying the neighbors and without spending for a pair of Benthics and amps for them. No, not shilling here as I'm waiting for my pair to arrive, but I am seriously hoping that these will be the last finishing touch to my system (which is sounding absolutely awesome nnow.)
I'm working on the DOF kits for the Orca DeLuxes and the Dungeness Maxs, but will then do the bamboo Orcas which I have in the system, and which sound so amazingly good that I am extremely reluctant to change -- other than the DOF upgrades.)
I'm sure that once the Baby Benthics show up on the Blumenstein site, more of you will be wanting them. I know that I'm truly looking forward to my pair.
-- Jim
-
Jim,
I'm interested in your opinion of the new Baby Benthic subs. I'm running my Orcas with a Yamaha sub right now and it sounds good, but I know that I can do better. I'm limited by the WAF requirements, so I need to find something that fits into the room.
I purchased the DOF kit, but have not installed it yet. I just need to find the time and take to do it, because it looks like it with take some time to get it done.
I purchase the IsoAcoustics stands on sale, and I must say that I'm very pleased with the improvement in imaging, separation of individuals and instruments, and the added air. Because of this I'm not in a rush to install the DOF kit, I think the stands made that much of an improvement. My wife is not a fan of the look, but I don't think they look bad. She must love me, because I'm able to keep them.
-
Hey Brad,
If I were you, I'd still take the time to install the DOF kit -- it really addresses some other issues aside from what you mention the stands do. I can't speak from experience yet, but after several chats with Clark, I believe it's a no-brainer. The hardest part is removing the old binding posts, and if you have the right tools, it isn't that bad. I've just had too much on my plate and was in the hospital again last week, but installing the squishy balls, the new binding posts, and the driver should be no big deal -- just have to take your time and be careful with the driver installation -- think of torquing down the driver as if it were a cylinder head -- follow a blanced sequence and only a tiny bit at a time, and use a feeler gauge to know when it is evenly tightened down. I have a very low torque wrench that goes down to inch-ounces, and I'll probably use that when the time comes.
I think the Babys are the same basic size as the Orca, just an inch or so wider, so same basic WAF, and can easily sit on a small platform near the Orca stand.
I can't say much more than that as I don't have mine yet, but after talking with Clark, it was clear that these are exactly what I need to finish my system. I believe they are 4 ohms, so you'll either need two plate amps in boxes, or if you want to run mono, an amp that can handle a 2-ohm load if you want to run them in parallel, which is my personal preference, though I'll be running these stereo with one amp per side.
Take care, and good to hear from you again,
Jim
-
Jim,
I plan on doing the DOF install, it is just a matter of finding the time, with projects around the house and going away with the family. It does not look like I will be able to get to it for a little while, as my Eros is on the way and I want to get my vinyl back online. Hopefully my wife will not have anymore painting projects for me in the near future, so I can catch up and get the speakers done and hear how they sound. Based on the feedback it should be really nice upgrade.
Brad
-
I'm considering replacing my Klipsch Forte IIs with Orcase, mainly because of space. To be able to put the speakers on a wall where I will have built-in bookcases will make a huge difference in my living room's layout.
I'm worried that the Orcas, however, will not offer the same volume as the Klipsch. I'm using a Stereomour II. Currently I can turn LPs all the way up and will want more. Will the Orcas be quieter?
Obviously bass won't be the same. Ideally I would add a Benthic Bass Unit, though I can't afford that. Indeed, I would need to sell my Klipsch to afford the Orcas. But I figure I could always add the Benthic.
Thoughts? The room is fiarly big (tall ceilings) and open.
-
The Klipsch is spec'd at 11dB more sensitive than the Fostex FE83. Those numbers are not easily compared because they don't include directivity - the Orca will put proportionately more energy into the reverberant field for the same on-axis SPL. That might account for 3dB, which still leaves an 8dB difference.
There's more to music than just loudness, though. :^)
-
There's more to music than just loudness, though. :^)
I know, and I usually don't crank the Stereomour. But I'm worried that with the new room size plus lower sensitivity I would be dissatisfied.
-
I'm considering replacing my Klipsch Forte IIs with Orcase, mainly because of space. To be able to put the speakers on a wall where I will have built-in bookcases will make a huge difference in my living room's layout.
I'm worried that the Orcas, however, will not offer the same volume as the Klipsch. I'm using a Stereomour II. Currently I can turn LPs all the way up and will want more. Will the Orcas be quieter?
Obviously bass won't be the same. Ideally I would add a Benthic Bass Unit, though I can't afford that. Indeed, I would need to sell my Klipsch to afford the Orcas. But I figure I could always add the Benthic.
Thoughts? The room is fiarly big (tall ceilings) and open.
The Orca's wont play quite as loud since they are a bit less sensitive then your current speakers. Since you already have to turn the Stereomour up all the way you might benefit from a little extra gain in your signal path. The least expensive way to do this is to add a Quickie in-between the Seduction and the Stereomour. This was discussed recently in another thread.
-
Well, I have a Quickie. Not in the chain right now.
I wonder how I'll feel about bass without subs. And then, when I can afford one, will one be enough?
-
What does your source put out for signal level? If you're already clipping the input of the Stereomour, clipping it more with a Quickie may not help.
-
What does your source put out for signal level? If you're already clipping the input of the Stereomour, clipping it more with a Quickie may not help.
How do I measure it? With CD and digital I'm fine. With phono I can max out the Steremour and still want more. This is only when I really want to crank it. For the most part I have the Stereomour knob turned 3/4 of the way up.
-
Ah, I see it in your signature. A 0.4mV cartridge will leave you short of Redbook levels without some extra gain, which could be compensated for with the addition of the Quickie, maybe just on the phono input.
-
I think the AT150MLX is a MM cart with 4mv output not 0.4mv.
Anywho....the suggestions for additional input gain (like a Quickee) might help.
Also, be wary of Paul's comment on excessive gain leading to clipping of the amp.
-
I'm looking at getting a second pair of speakers for the office and thinking about the Marlins. I have the second gen Orcas in my main system and wanted to know if any one had both and could comment on the sound differences.
-
Well I finally got around to installing the DOF kit in my Orcas. While I was at it I picked up the limited production run Fostex Fe83-SOL drivers. The speakers have been burning in for the last couple of days. I plan to bring them down from my kids room this weekend after they have about 120 hours on them and see how they sound. I'm hoping they match up nicely as they are an upgraded version of the FE83En.
-
Well I finally got around to installing the DOF kit in my Orcas. While I was at it I picked up the limited production run Fostex Fe83-SOL drivers. The speakers have been burning in for the last couple of days. I plan to bring them down from my kids room this weekend after they have about 120 hours on them and see how they sound. I'm hoping they match up nicely as they are an upgraded version of the FE83En.
I would love to hear your impression of the sol speakers vs the standard 83. Please let us know how they sound
-
I just ordered a pair of fe83-sol for my orca deluxes. I tried the 4" 108sol's (in another speaker) and they were way better than the fe126e's. Im excited to hear them!
-
I'm very interested in the orcas, i'm currently using a 10~ yearr old yamaha piano craft amp+speakers as my only speaker system. I have it on my desk, and that is its main useage. I also sometimes sit on a couch across the room for watching a movie or so, but mostly near field. I have a passive preamp from tisbury audio and im considering pairing them with the seductor. Would that work well? Or would a sex be a better choice. For now i would use them with my piano craft amp, but sell it as soon as i get a bottöehead amp.
-
Either S.E.X. or the Seductor with a passive level control will work well. Gain is about the same, with Seductor giving you about 3dB more output if you need it.
-
Will have to consider which one will be better for what i want, both seem to be good choices for desktop use but the seductor is easier to upgrade/integrate later.
-
Got lucky and there were some used Orcas for sale in Europe and i snagged them up.
They are from 2014, so will likely order the DOF kit once i listened to them a bit. Looking forward to it ;D
-
Got lucky and there were some used Orcas for sale in Europe and i snagged them up.
They are from 2014, so will likely order the DOF kit once i listened to them a bit. Looking forward to it ;D
Were they the ones on ebay? I looked at them myself a little while back. There is a very nice looking pair of Tritons up for grabs on one of the UK forums as well at the moment which are very tempting. Shocking timing as I've just picked up somthing else.
-
Yes, grabbed the eBay ones. Should be here next week. Will order one of the bottlehead amps for it next month~
-
The fe-83-sol sounds way better to me in my orca deluxes than my fe-83. More authoritative bass and smoother on the treble. fwiw.
-
I see from Blumenstein's Instagram page that the Fostex fe83sol driver is now standard... So far I haven't seen Grant comment on what he perceives as the advantages. I'm anxious to try the upgraded driver since they're relatively inexpensive.
-
I completed the Blumenstein Depth of Field (DOF) modification on my 2.2 Mini-Max speakers (the minis prior to the Marlin and the MAX subwoofer).
Work of warning, be careful with the FOSTEX FF85WK drivers. I dented the dust cap on one and had to order a replacement. Actually, I replaced both of the drivers and now have one good spare.
I have been listening for about two weeks to the newly modded pair and feel the new drivers have gone through their breakin period and I am very please. These speakers were very good before the change but now I hear some improvement in clarity, quickness in response, and easiness with the music.
Last night I was listening at about half normal volume levels (using 300b Paramount amps with a passive preamp) to Fourplay, Robert Cray, and Joyce Cooling and was transfixed with the smooth sound and depth of each instrument and vocal. One of those late-night nirvana moments.
-
I haven't seen a report on the DOF for Orca Deluxe so I will do one, sorta.
I replaced the Fostex EX with sols and did the DOF at the same time so not really a DOF report, but I would say
that in my opinion this is a very will spent ~ 200 bucks for drivers and DOF.
Also did the DOF for the old Orca Subs also more gooder.