Bottlehead Forum
Bottlehead Kits => Legacy Kit Products => Quickie => Topic started by: matthewmckay on August 10, 2011, 12:52:44 PM
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Hello fellow Quickie enthusiasts,
Made a discovery on EBAY that I thought might be worth putting in a Bottle-thread. Tons and Tons of rechargeable AA NiMH batteries.. 60 to be exact, for $45 with free shipping. That will allow for days and days of charging one set of 30 while the other is in use. They are rated at 3800 mA hours too!!
http://cgi.ebay.com/60-X-CFL-AA-3800mAh-Rechargeable-Battery-NI-MH-1-2V-/250866950373?pt=US_Batteries&hash=item3a68d5e0e5
I must spend at least $20 a month on 9v batteries buying locally, (which is crippling my budget for beer), so I decided I'd get 3x10 AA battery holders online and ween myself off the 9v's for good.
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If you don't already have the PJCCS upgrade, I would highly recommend it. Especially if you are running rechargeables. My experience was that they worked almost as long as Alkalines but their voltage dropped off much quicker.
I finally gave up and bought an Agilent 6205C Dual power supply off of eBay for $50. I figured I'd just about spent that much in batteries already. Nothing will be as pure as the batteries, but I'm very happy with the sound when using the power supply. Plus, I still feel like I'm reducing, reusing, and recycling since these things were made back in the 70's and 80's and need a good home.
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Cool! Rechargeables are good. I see the same seller has real D-cells, with 11,000 mAh ratings, as well.
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I just changed my 9V batteries the other day as I've been using it a lot lately. I'm seriously considering getting 3 big-ass rechargeable AGM batteries.
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The seller has a scattering of bad feedback, only 1%. But these indicate that the batteries are not as advertised. I suspect that others don't test before leaving feedback.
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HP ink jet power cube 31vdc at around 900mA.
+ 2200uf 50v panasonic fc cap in parallel.
= a good start.
:)
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Has anyone thought about using three 12volt maintenance free non vented gel motor cycle batteries, or even golf cart batteries for the 36volt B plus? Once I get my quickie built, I will eventually use motor cycle batteries.
Bernie.
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Has anyone thought about using three 12volt maintenance free non vented gel motor cycle batteries, or even golf cart batteries for the 36volt B plus? Once I get my quickie built, I will eventually use motor cycle batteries.
Bernie.
Yep.
(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi576.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss207%2Fcorndog642%2FBottlehead%2520Quickie%2Fedfa0e5b.jpg&hash=bbe484bd30751fae88c3c3469dafe8488c768660)
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The Mercedes owner in me (three of 'em, ranging from 18 to 24 years old) says just get some group 49 batteries (the one on the right) and be done with it.
(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.benzworld.org%2Fforums%2Fattachments%2Fw124-e-ce-d-td-class%2F239856d1242749428-battery-size-group-49-48-bat.jpg&hash=2ee9a40a25d9111894d3730af251b5bfebebc837)
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Yep.
(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi576.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss207%2Fcorndog642%2FBottlehead%2520Quickie%2Fedfa0e5b.jpg&hash=bbe484bd30751fae88c3c3469dafe8488c768660)
These can be used in series and charged in parallel. It takes more current for parallel charging.
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Are not the motorcycle gel and auto lead/acid batteries a bit on the amperage overkill side for the quickie?
There must be smaller rechargables that would do.
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I used to own an Altmann Attraction DAC that specified the use of a lead/acid car battery. The more I used it obviously the more often it needed charging. So I began using a trickle charger during periods of non use and then I began using a linear power supply. That to me was the best answer as it proved to be sonically transparent, at least to my ears. The design of the supply was specifically for that DAC and perhaps that made the difference but I'm unsure. Please see pix.
John
Hey Matthew,
Now "Bottle-thread" sounds great! A nice new anagram for us to enjoy.
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Hey John - I know its off topic - couldnt help but be curious that you 'used to own' the Altman DAC. I have been curious about that DAC for some years now. It seemed a bit pricy for a basically DIY DAC on a piece of wood. Not sure if there is enough interest to start another thread about it.
In terms of battery power. I'm not sure why the push has always been for SLAB packs. I went straight to NiMH or LiPo4. That may be that I'm also a RC hobbyist and have the chargers/batteries already. I recently have been switching between voltages to experiment with how the 3s4 responds. My impression, now, is that there is not much of a difference in sound. I would prob. not be able to tell the difference in an A/B comparison. I'm now running a 30V NiMH pack. Sounds very good. Almost no probs with ring or microphonics. I have run as high as 62V. Tubes are so cool!
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These can be used in series and charged in parallel. It takes more current for parallel charging.
I can charge them individually too. I have a CTEK smart charger for this. I thought about incorporating a switch but the available switch options make this a fantasy. The best part is that I won't need to charge them very often and they'll pay for themselves in a year compared to how many times I've replaced the 9V batteries.
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Hey Eric,
The Altmann DAC was 16/44.1 only. It was great for a solid state set up I used to own but with the tube gear and OB speakers it had a difficult time competing with other DAC's. 24/96 is to my ears right where I want to be. At least in terms of being able to really hear a difference. To upgrade the altmann would have cost about $500. I considered that for a time but given it's lack of a finished look and the rate at which software and DAC tech is changing I figured I'd spend the money better elsewhere.
John
And pricey it certainly was!!!
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Why not one of these? http://www.recycled-parts.com/Drop-off-Centers-/Metal-/Gold-/36-volt-deka-forklift-battery-18-D125-17-173F-fork-lift.cgi
Cheers,
Shawn
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Why not one of these? http://www.recycled-parts.com/Drop-off-Centers-/Metal-/Gold-/36-volt-deka-forklift-battery-18-D125-17-173F-fork-lift.cgi
Cheers,
Shawn
Hey! I want one of those!
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Why not one of these? http://www.recycled-parts.com/Drop-off-Centers-/Metal-/Gold-/36-volt-deka-forklift-battery-18-D125-17-173F-fork-lift.cgi
Cheers,
Shawn
It would last forever but you need a ventilator fan above them when charging. The charger requires three phase service too! So if you have vent fans in your listening room, a floor that will support 1000 pounds and a 3 phase charger in there too, you are set up. Otherwise, it is a bad selection.
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Hmmm, three phase for my new quickie. What could go wrong(yes, another attempt at off humor). Or maybe the wife would agree to a pedal powered charger( you KNOW where I'm going with this). Looks like I will have to look around my old papers and see what the other batt powered preamp I used to own used. I remember that the charger did it's thing when the amp was turned off.
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Check page 1. I think the SLA batteries and a good charger are a viable option.
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Or maybe the wife would agree to a pedal powered charger( you KNOW where I'm going with this).
Greg, I hope you were not suggesting that the wife would be doing the pedaling while you listen.
Cheers,
Shawn
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Well who else is there? The kids all left at 15 to seek a more gentle life in the military!
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Since we are back on the Quickie battery discussion, I have been doing a little experimenting with different voltages. 62V Lipo, 36V Lipo, 30V NiMh. I had thought at one time that the 62V sounded somewhat (very small amount) better in terms of definition/resolution. Now I think the 30V sounds the best. Not as forward, more 'laid back', less fatigue. I think that may be due to distortion. It appears that distortion in the 3s4 increases with voltage. Here is the data sheet.
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Still don't have the Quickie kit yet, but I do have some Li 9v batts on order. Hope it works out good. Seems that somewhere here someone mentioned batteries having different resistances (per cell?) to 'leg go' of current. Faster is better, I'm guessing. I will also be using dual mono (coarse and fine) volume controls, freak that I am about control.
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Greg - I could get into dual mono controls. Honestly I feel there would be a very real use for them, beyond pure paranoia etc. I frequently 'think' that one channel is louder than the other. I can easily move the MMG's an inch or two forward or back to compensate. I bring them 'out' to listen anyway. I wouldnt be able to do that with 150lb speakers. The 3s4's are rarely matched.
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Eric, you need one of the speaker test systems with the dual mics, then you could really be obsessed with channel seperation. You should should see me set up a cartridge on a TT, the azimuth and I have a real love hate relationship, I actually considered buying a Fosgometer or whatever they call it for as much as an entry level TT, thankfully I was able to convince myself to just let go...
Cheers,
Shawn
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Shawn thats hilarious! I always feel better when I read your posts. I guess misery loves company.
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Eric, you need one of the speaker test systems with the dual mics, then you could really be obsessed with channel seperation. You should should see me set up a cartridge on a TT, the azimuth and I have a real love hate relationship, I actually considered buying a Fosgometer or whatever they call it for as much as an entry level TT, thankfully I was able to convince myself to just let go...
Cheers,
Shawn
Shawn,
Look at this thread for a dead on way to adjust anti-skating and azimuth. You should do azimuth first.
http://www.bottlehead.com/smf/index.php/topic,878.0.html
This is exactly what the Fosgometer does. Read the manual and it pretty much says so.
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Grainger, I think the supermassive black hole at the center of the forum ate your link. It has eaten some of my posts from time to time. Seriously, I think I have read the thread you are referring to. Actually I have had really good results using the Best Tractor from Mint LP. They are made custom for a particular turntable, tonearm combination. So the geometry is precise. I use a digital pathology microscope I picked up used, and use refraction to set up the azimuth. Using this method you adjust based on stylus position and not the cartridge body. It is tedious, but quite effective.
Cheers,
Shawn
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Shawn,
You're going to have to bring that set of goodies up here once Mr. Riggle gets done with my TT. :-)
-- Jim
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You got it Jim, I always like a chance to play with my toys. Grainger thanks for the link, that's some great info.
Cheers,
Shawn
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Shawn,
AAA came to swap my wife's flat with the spare as I was about to post so this got delayed 40 minutes.
Nope, my gray hair ate into my brain cells and I forgot to paste the link I had saved.
I edited my previous post adding the link for better continuity.
The 'scope method is dead on. The azimuth is right when you get the best balance between right and left channels. That is a null when you are inverting and adding. The same thing goes for anti-skating. If the stylus rides one groove more than another, you get the same kind of imbalance. If you have both of them off neither will really zero. Then you have to tweak them down till you get zero on both azimuth and anti-skating.
I like it because it is pragmatic, logical and you can see it working. This is the same method used by the Fosgometer.
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(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi576.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss207%2Fcorndog642%2FBottlehead%2520Quickie%2Fdbdeb7b4.jpg&hash=78af7818b930e9bcd7552975f0c5a12e154815b5)
(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi576.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss207%2Fcorndog642%2FBottlehead%2520Quickie%2Faf3ade1f.jpg&hash=5a18e46b55a9a0bdb22c20b5e0e2cac2c799e433)
It's shocking how good this combo sounds! I use the Quickie with my home-made tube amp based on the Dynaco ST35.
(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi576.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss207%2Fcorndog642%2FBottlehead%2520Quickie%2F3019b285.jpg&hash=522b5b352a2f86cb545c986f70528a89071f8ab3)
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Rob,
That looks like the back of my stereo when it was tri-amplified. Wires everywhere!
You charge the batteries in parallel, right?
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Nah, I just charge them one at a time. I don't get to listen as often as I'd like so I have the time. I have a CTEK 800 smart charger which does a great job.
The quickie doesn't draw that much power. I even left it on by accident for almost a day and the batteries didn't even drop 1 volt.
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@corndog71, I LOVE those pictures! That's what it's all about, experimenting and having a ball doing it. Quickie hit the market specifically to return to an aspect of the original Foreplay - something so cheap you can feel relaxed about playing around with it, yet with some decent sonic potential.
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I do like the look of the 12V's in series! Quite massive!
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Greg - I could get into dual mono controls. Honestly I feel there would be a very real use for them, beyond pure paranoia etc. I frequently 'think' that one channel is louder than the other. I can easily move the MMG's an inch or two forward or back to compensate. I bring them 'out' to listen anyway. I wouldnt be able to do that with 150lb speakers. The 3s4's are rarely matched.
At times I too feel the same way. Strangely, if I have changed or not broken in a cable and put them in then my left channel gets louder and it takes a few days for it to settle down. This happens irrespective of the amp/source config. Maybe a dual in the quickie may help.
shreekant :)
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Has anyone thought about using three 12volt...
Bernie.
Yep.
(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi576.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss207%2Fcorndog642%2FBottlehead%2520Quickie%2Fedfa0e5b.jpg&hash=bbe484bd30751fae88c3c3469dafe8488c768660)
Looking at doing this. How did they work? Sound?
Cheers,
Geary
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Looking at doing this. How did they work? Sound?
Cheers,
Geary
They work very well. After a month of almost daily use they're still holding steady at around 37 volts. As for the sound I'm not 100% sure it was the batteries but the quickie seems to sound a bit more relaxed than before. If there's any audible difference it's very subtle.
I didn't do it for sound quality. I wanted to save money as I was going through a lot of 9V batteries! For what I spent on the Power Sonics (around $55 from Amazon) I figure they'll start saving me money after about a year of use. I wish they made 1.5V batteries that hold a charge as well as these do.
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cool - the zen of lead/acid! Might be fun to try.
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That's great. Wasn't expecting a huge sonic improvement! Just didn't want the sound to go south!!! The SLA batteries are next on my list! Tired of the 9v burn!!
Cheers,
Geary
They work very well. After a month of almost daily use they're still holding steady at around 37 volts. As for the sound I'm not 100% sure it was the batteries but the quickie seems to sound a bit more relaxed than before. If there's any audible difference it's very subtle.
I didn't do it for sound quality. I wanted to save money as I was going through a lot of 9V batteries! For what I spent on the Power Sonics (around $55 from Amazon) I figure they'll start saving me money after about a year of use. I wish they made 1.5V batteries that hold a charge as well as these do.
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Just a quick note here. We've been talking about development projects, and one of them is an AC power supply for Quickie. I have some ideas and am hoping for something that fits under the chassis easily. This is a long way from a product announcement, just a little hint for the enthusiasts who are following this thread. :^)
The 300B preamp has reminded us how good directly heated filaments can sound, and we're starting to take Quickie more seriously. Many thanks to the Bottlehead community for their enthusiasm for this little "toy"!
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(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi576.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss207%2Fcorndog642%2FBottlehead%2520Quickie%2Fdbdeb7b4.jpg&hash=78af7818b930e9bcd7552975f0c5a12e154815b5)
(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi576.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss207%2Fcorndog642%2FBottlehead%2520Quickie%2Faf3ade1f.jpg&hash=5a18e46b55a9a0bdb22c20b5e0e2cac2c799e433)
It's shocking how good this combo sounds! I use the Quickie with my home-made tube amp based on the Dynaco ST35.
(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi576.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss207%2Fcorndog642%2FBottlehead%2520Quickie%2F3019b285.jpg&hash=522b5b352a2f86cb545c986f70528a89071f8ab3)
How have you got the batteries hooked up, I wonder if there would be a cool way to make them part of a chassis.
Mark
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It's shocking how good this combo sounds! I use the Quickie with my home-made tube amp based on the Dynaco ST35.
How have you got the batteries hooked up, I wonder if there would be a cool way to make them part of a chassis.
Mark
Nice looking stuff! How much power do you get from the Dynaco?
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My amp is a modified version of the Dynaco ST35. You can read more about it here:http://www.bottlehead.com/smf/index.php/topic,1990.msg15355.html#msg15355 (http://www.bottlehead.com/smf/index.php/topic,1990.msg15355.html#msg15355)
Mark, stay tuned. I have an idea for tidying up those batteries.
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Eric,
One of you guys has to post a thread with all the quintessential Quickie tweaks.
Start a new thread and just list them then sort out the order of magnitude of the impact it has.
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not a bad idea!
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I'm running a 36v supply with 3 SLA's and it runs great, tomorrow I'm going to try Graingers suggestion of adding some film caps to each tube so I'd thought I'd also try to get the D-cells out of the Quickie too. Here's my idea, Fry's has some 6v/1.4AH batteries for around $10. Any opinions of hooking this battery up like this; would this work?
SLA ===>1 Ohm 1/2watt====>=>====1 Ohm 1/2watt===> Gnd
ll
ll
/ \
/ \
red LED red LED
/ \
3s4 3s4
I'm thinking the voltage divider gives me 3 volts to the LED's, which should drop about 1.7 volts, leaving 1.3 to the tube heaters.
Now this is thinking after a good snifter of JohnnyW and a long day at work. It gets rid of the rechargeable Dcells, I also get a nice indicator led and there 's room in my battery bank for the small SLA.
This seems too easy, what am I missing?
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You show a voltage divider of 2 ohms across a 6v battery, so it's drawing 3 amps. Each 1/2 watt resistor is dissipating 9 watts and the 1.4Ah battery would last not quite a half hour if the resistors didn't explode. Trust me, they will!
The main issue though, is that each tube needs a floating independent heater power source. If you want to use a higher voltage than 1.5 (or 1.2 for NiCd or NiMH) then it's best to get two batteries, and place a chip regulator between each of them and its tube. You can even get 2-volt SLAs in a D cell package, which would work with a low-dropout regulator at 1.2 or 1.5 volts.
But a good NiMH D cell has 10Ah capacity; why replace it with 1.4Ah? (Note many "D cells" are actually AA cells in a big can - don't get those ones!)
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I haven't looked at the specs. Wouldn't the NiCad/NiMH 1.2V be within spec for the tube? Seems ideal, except, possibly for the AH rating.
Is there a way for Quickie owners to know the difference between the true rechargeable D cells and those made from AA cells?
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I've been using AA rechargeables from the get go. It doesnt seem to be a problem.
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For the longest life between recharging, you want "true" D-cell size rechargeable cells. The same applies to primary (non-rechargeable) cells of course. The full-capacity D cells cost more and are harder to find. But any NiCd/NiMH, alkaline, or even carbon-zinc cell will work while its charge holds. You just re-charge (or replace) the lower capacity ones more often.
As I said recently, it's hard to find good specifications on the required voltage, but here's a summary:
1.0 volts seems to be the minimum
1.2 volts is the nominal for NiCd and NiMH, both of which hold that voltage closely throughout their discharge
1.25 volts is the average spec; some hearing-aid tubes (which ran off of carbon-zinc or alkaline cells) are specified at this voltage
1.4 volts is the specification point for the 3S4 and most all of its relatives designed for portable radios
1.5 volts is the nominal voltage of a fresh alkaline or carbon-zinc cell (it drops linearly as it drains, I call them dead for audio when they hit1.0 volts, but they are rated to 0.8 volts for use in flashlights)
1.6 volts is the absolute maximum for the 3S4 and its relatives
I feel that 1.2 volts is ideal for Quickie, giving full performance and the longest possible filament lifetime. Because Quickie doe not demand anything like the maximum plate current, it can operate at the lower end of the recommended voltage range without depleting the space charge, and the low plate voltage reduces the risk of cathode poisoning in any case.
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Thanks Paul,
This is most helpful!!!!
Cheers,
Geary
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Thanks for the lesson Paul!! ;D
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My interest here is more than academic, I think that battery supply pre-amps are the bees knees.
I have gathered a short list of pieces to sell. This should help with the Orcas and maybe a Quickie.
There are two systems that I care about, then the AV system which makes sound. I have a system in the work room and the "big rig" in the listening room. My last 4 houses have had to have a listening room. It took a number of houses with our realtor to get the definition of "Listening Room" across to her. But being the only Professional Realtor I have ever known, she go it. Anyone in the Atlanta metro area should contact me. Linda is on top of her game.
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Man, Does THAT ever ring bells! Listening room, shop, dark room, even garage are not readily understood as to their purposes. When I say shop, I want 220, I want lots of 110v outlets, I want ROOM, and so on. Some people get that. But say I want a listening room, and they give you a cube, or a hallway, or a cube with 4 doors. The only reason that I hate my dance studio is that I easily bruise my shins on the coat rack. Ok, ok so I'm not a dancer, and no, not even a closet dancer, but you get my point boys, 5 6 7 8....dip me,, in sulpher. Man this is great coffee.