Bottlehead Forum

Bottlehead Kits => Legacy Kit Products => Tode => Topic started by: Doc B. on March 05, 2012, 08:15:22 AM

Title: Hmmmmm....
Post by: Doc B. on March 05, 2012, 08:15:22 AM
This just showed up at Bottleheadquarters. Now what do you suppose that might be going into?
Title: Re: Hmmmmm....
Post by: Laudanum on March 05, 2012, 09:19:50 AM
Thats easy ... geetar amp :-)  Im assuming a replacement in a combo?  Or maybe building something custom?
Title: Re: Hmmmmm....
Post by: Yoder on March 05, 2012, 10:34:52 AM
Definitely a guitar amp with MIDI plug-in, and multi-effects capabilities. Any plans for including a reverb tank? I look forward to it. My Rivera Suprema 55 is a beast at 75 pounds.
Title: Re: Hmmmmm....
Post by: Laudanum on March 05, 2012, 11:06:17 AM
Wish I had something vintage and/or really sweet.  Only thing that I have that is vintage is an old Kalamazoo Bass 30.  Beat to hell but it works.  Actually not bad for guitar with a pedal in front of it ... just for messing around anyway.
Title: Re: Hmmmmm....
Post by: ironbut on March 05, 2012, 11:37:43 AM
I'm guessing a Leslie?
Or maybe the Schmalle version of a "rotating" speaker sound?
Title: Re: Hmmmmm....
Post by: Doc B. on March 05, 2012, 11:53:44 AM
Thats easy ... geetar amp :-)  Im assuming a replacement in a combo?  Or maybe building something custom?

Getting warm. It's for a prototype small combo/practice amp. After a few years of head scratching I finally came up with a kit concept I like that also fits our design sensibility. It's somewhat unconventional in terms of circuit and construction - perhaps more Vox-like than Fenderish or Marshally. Of course anything that isn't a Champ clone is considered unconventional, like we need another Champ clone in the world. We have yet to see if it sounds any good, so it's strictly in the POC realm for now.

A few talking points about this project -
8" Weber speaker (obviously). Haven't tried the Webers, but their reputation is excellent. And this one will fit in the rather interesting cabinet I want to try
EL84 SE output - it's a great sounding tube that guitar players can relate to
EF86 input - another great sounding tube that keeps it very simple to build
simple tone stack and volume controls - ditto the simple build
auxiliary speaker output for that 4X12 cabinet you have in the basement - I have a smaller combo amp with an 8 that I leave plugged into a 12. It's very nice to have that option.
headphone output for quiet practice - does that mean we have another headphone amp? I guess so. PB says we need to make an iPod dock for it. I have other priorities.

We should know in a week or two if the idea is going to fly or if it ends up in the incubator with the ribbon headphone and other long term projects.
Title: Re: Hmmmmm....
Post by: Laudanum on March 05, 2012, 12:09:13 PM
Cool, maybe I will have a chance to get, or better yet build, that sweet amp.   
Title: Re: Hmmmmm....
Post by: Dr. Toobz on March 05, 2012, 12:57:28 PM
Doc, love the use of an EF86 as the driver. In fact, I've often wondered why more guitar amp builders don't do that - seems like a 12AX7 driver is much more common. Your project sounds similar to something I want to put together for headphone use - a single-ended EL84 with a pentode driver for a cleaner and more brilliant tone. I find a lot of 12AX7 front-ends to sound rather predictable; what an overrated input tube!

Here's hoping this ends up as a released product - I'd buy it :-)
Title: Re: Hmmmmm....
Post by: Doc B. on March 05, 2012, 02:09:50 PM
Cool, maybe I will have a chance to get, or better yet build, that sweet amp.   

Well, we hope it will be sweet. ;^)>
Title: Re: Hmmmmm....
Post by: Doc B. on March 05, 2012, 06:41:15 PM
Initial impression of the Weber driver driven by my Electar 10 in open air is very positive. Very responsive and gets nice and crunchy when pushed. Stock speaker in the Electar is rather bassy and flubby, at least it is in the closed cabinet. I had trouble getting a good overdrive sound with a low output Teisco single coil into the stock speaker, but the Weber gets a nice bluesy growl on chords and yet gives a nice clean sound playing slide on the first string with that p'up. It can really dig into the mud with a 335. Hopefully we can maintain some of that feel at half the power with the EL84 (the Electar uses a 6L6 SE)
Title: Re: Hmmmmm....
Post by: Chris on March 05, 2012, 07:17:28 PM
I was going to say, maybe in a new kit... very exciting...
Title: Re: Hmmmmm....
Post by: Laudanum on March 06, 2012, 02:35:35 AM
Cool, maybe I will have a chance to get, or better yet build, that sweet amp.   

Well, we hope it will be sweet. ;^)>

Yeah, I said in another reply that I wish that I had a sweet amp.  Just looking at this as a possible chance to have one.  I know it's just in the possibility stage.
Title: Re: Hmmmmm....
Post by: dbishopbliss on March 06, 2012, 03:25:08 AM
...I've often wondered why more guitar amp builders don't do that...
Microphonics.  I like the sound of the EF86 but I've heard they can be noisy in a combo played at loud volumes and overdriven. 
Title: Re: Hmmmmm....
Post by: Pfenning on March 06, 2012, 05:00:12 AM
You have my attention! Keep the updates coming, I can't wait to get my hands on one.

Pfenning
Title: Re: Hmmmmm....
Post by: Doc B. on March 06, 2012, 05:25:28 AM
...I've often wondered why more guitar amp builders don't do that...
Microphonics.  I like the sound of the EF86 but I've heard they can be noisy in a combo played at loud volumes and overdriven.  

Could be. But I can't say for sure unless I try it. We do have a reasonable amount of experience with the EF86. Luckily The EHs don't seem to have too much of a problem with it.
Title: Re: Hmmmmm....
Post by: dbishopbliss on March 06, 2012, 09:11:48 AM
I like the EF86 sound.  A friend had a Vox-ish amp using EF86 preamp with a 12AX7 Phase Inverter and 2 EL84's.  Great sounding amp.  Different from the 12AX7 pre, 12AX7 PI, EL84 output amp I have (which I like as well), but there is something great about the EF86. 

I recently swapped out my Celestion Vintage 30 for an Eminence Red Fang.  I like the sound, but originally the Red Fang was in a closed back cabinet.  I gotta admit, I liked it better in the closed back as opposed to the open baffle.  I'm thinking of swapping the V30 back in and building a cab for the Fang. 
Title: Re: Hmmmmm....
Post by: vladimirwolfe on March 07, 2012, 07:15:24 AM
Sounds like a great project Doc. Looking forward to hearing more about it and more importantly, being able to order one! Sounds like it would be a nice addition to my '59 Harvard and '65 Deluxe.

Doug
Title: Re: Hmmmmm....
Post by: Doc B. on March 07, 2012, 07:54:45 AM
Sent the driver over to PB yesterday. Hopefully that's the last piece he needs to construct the prototype.
Title: Re: Hmmmmm....
Post by: Doc B. on March 13, 2012, 02:05:57 PM
We've had a busy few days, and this is the end result -

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=2978748541518 (http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=2978748541518)

Thanks to PB for cranking this proto out in a couple of days, and to Bob Bean for driving.
Title: Re: Hmmmmm....
Post by: porcupunctis on March 13, 2012, 03:59:49 PM
The Penned Toad pun just seals the deal.

Nice sound.
Title: Re: Hmmmmm....
Post by: Doc B. on March 13, 2012, 05:10:33 PM
Thanks for the complement. We shot that with a little Fuji point and shoot I bought for Eileen a couple years ago. Fairly decent sound for a mic that peeks thru a hole the size of a flea's ear canal. When (well, if) we get a production prototype done I might take it down to the studio and record it properly. Speaking of demo videos, I was looking at the TV Jones demos today. Tom lives a mile or two away from me. His pickups are awesome and man, that cat can play.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbjcjOD7sZI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbjcjOD7sZI)

I love this one. I think that UPS guy is Bob, who delivered to us at our house for something like 15 years.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eg3FcuY8yIw&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eg3FcuY8yIw&feature=related)
Title: Re: Hmmmmm....
Post by: dbishopbliss on March 14, 2012, 05:28:38 AM
...When (well, if) we get a production prototype done I might take it down to the studio and record it properly.

I don't think "might" is an option.  You "must" if you want to compete with all the other boutique amp builders out there.  Also, I would suggest getting an array of guitars to record with, Les Paul, Strat, Tele, Gretsch (w/TV Jones).  Finally, find a player that can play the same progression/lick consistently from sample to sample so people can hear exactly how the amp sounds with which guitar.  Actually, the TV Jones site does this nicely with their pickups.

http://www.tvjones.com/soundclips/
Title: Re: Hmmmmm....
Post by: Doc B. on March 14, 2012, 06:13:47 AM

I don't think "might" is an option.  You "must" if you want to compete with all the other boutique amp builders out there.  

Ah hah! But the buyer is the boutique amp builder in our case! ;^)>

I agree that it is necessary to get a very concise player to play consistently with various axes and styles. Kudos to Bob, who is actually an acoustic player, for getting all the different tones he got out of something we had zero experience with beyond a somewhat beer induced session the night before. I have a demo player or two in mind, it will be interesting to see how that pans out. But first things first. We found 1) that the bass control was working outside a useful range and 2) that the thing plays pretty darned loud. I don't think the volume is ever past about 6 on the demo. So the next iteration will have a brake in place of the bass knob. This will make it a lot easier to practice with and to make it crunchy when using the headphone jack. I also have a few adjustments to the cabinet styling in mind.

Stay tuned...
Title: Re: Hmmmmm....
Post by: Pfenning on March 14, 2012, 07:25:19 AM
I think it's a great idea to have sound samples with different guitars, but, depending on price point, it might not be that big of a deal. If you show case some good tones through a couple guitars, that will get most folks interest including mine (the video was almost enough for me). Bottlehead has a strong reputation for cranking out killer gear in my mind, and I can't wait to get my hands on one. I'm almost more excited to see how this community starts tweaking it. Adjustments to the tone stack, swapping in new tubes, trying different capacitors , and getting the amp tweaked specifically for jazz, rock, country or whatever. The brake is a fabulous idea, and really important to me, a home player. Keep the sneak peaks coming, and I'm sure I'll be in line with a bunch of others for that first run. I should be done building my Crack by then.   
Title: Re: Hmmmmm....
Post by: Grainger49 on March 14, 2012, 10:43:27 AM
The demo got Cat Scratch Fever stuck in my mind for hours.  And I've got it again.

I think this product will not only make it but will expose a new group to Bottlehead products.

Congratulations!
Title: Re: Hmmmmm....
Post by: ironbut on March 14, 2012, 01:48:09 PM
Very cool you guys!
Looking forward to hearing what it can do for stuff like jazz.
Keep up the great work Dan!
Title: Re: Hmmmmm....
Post by: Doc B. on March 14, 2012, 01:58:03 PM
It sounds nice played clean, but it's all pentode (penned toad) and has a nice bite, so it may be more of a rock/blues/chicken pickin kind of amp than a round toned jazz amp. I'm sure people will want to mod it all over the place so who knows what tones they might end up with?  

For jazz I built the amp you hear in this clip. It's quite different, 12AX7 and 6V6, parafeed, 10" Eminence alnico driver. Guitar is an Epi Joe Pass with Kent Armstrong neck pup and, IIRC, Thomastik strings-

http://jacquinaylor.com/media/mp3/lucky-girl/09-sunshine-and-rain.mp3 (http://jacquinaylor.com/media/mp3/lucky-girl/09-sunshine-and-rain.mp3)
Title: Re: Hmmmmm....
Post by: ironbut on March 14, 2012, 02:07:23 PM
Ooo,.. that sounds sweet!
If I decide to pick up an ax again, we'll need to talk!
Title: Re: Hmmmmm....
Post by: Chris on March 14, 2012, 07:42:56 PM
"I think this product will not only make it but will expose a new group to Bottlehead products."

Congratulations!.......................... I second this...
Title: Re: Hmmmmm....
Post by: Maxwell_E on April 12, 2012, 08:08:25 AM
I can second the quality of Tom's pickups. I've had a pair of the TV Classic in my Gibson SG for a few years now and I couldn't be happier. I wanna build another guitar and give it either some coil-tapped Classic Plus' for versatility or just straight P90 single coils.

On the sound, I love the clarity I can get from them. The PAF clones that came in the guitar were muddy and thick (like they should be), but I found I got lost in the sound of any band I was playing in. These have a really tight bass and cut through a mix, and even with the dirtiest amp you can get a great clean tone just by picking softly or rolling the guitars volume down a little. Anyway, just my two cents.