Bottlehead Forum
Bottlehead Kits => Legacy Kit Products => Quickie => Topic started by: earwaxxer on November 06, 2012, 01:01:36 PM
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Due to popular request (well, just Granger actually), I am going to list all mods I have done to the poor Quickie, transforming her into a 'horse of different color' - well, she's pretty damn ugly if you get right down to it - but she sings like Pavarotti!
Please refer to attached photos, and follow along with the lecture. Since Granger is looking for maximum tweak value for the time and money I will start with (surprise, surprise) limiting micro-phonics, ring, hum and 'smear'.
1. (See tube close up photo) - I did all I could do to dampen the tubes, short of burying them in the ground! Forget those stupid little POS rings that you slide on the tube. I found that the Quickie sound CONTINUED to improve the more I isolated the tubes. It was over many steps that I got to were I am now. All parts are found at your local hardware store. Standard copper tubing, I think it was 1/2". The tube should fit easily in the pipe. I took some strips of Velcro to line the inside until the tube fit snug.
There's more - I took aluminum foil and laid out a long strip, put some epoxy on the leading edge and rolled the pipe (once cut to size) up in aluminum foil, probably about 6 layers. Then wrap the outside of the pipe with a bunch of rubber bands, and then paint the thing whatever color you choose. Lastly, take one or two spongy ear plugs. Insert the tubes. Compress the ear plugs into the pipe, snug up against the tube.
2. Insulate and dampen the chassis. Use whatever insulating tape or whatever you choose and tape the bottom of the chassis. Take a glue gun, circle the tube sockets both top and bottom. Paint the glue after it cools if it looks like shit.
Ok - now the sexy part - boutique hardware! (ie. get your wallet out)
1. Replace volume pot - I choose TKD. TKD is the Audio Note supplier. I like it. Is it hugely better than an Alps pot? Dont know. This choice will be based on budget. I have seen $400 pots!
2. Next comes the resistors, caps, chokes, PJCCS etc.
a. Resistors - I used Tants. Do some research, see what you think would blend with your system. Parts express is a good place to start. They have good parts to get you going down the right road.
b. Capacitors - much bigger variables here. For the coupling caps I used Mundorf silver/oils. I really like them. You can try various 'oilers' to see if you like them before you shell out the big bucks - Granger likes the Obbligatto film/oils. Oils tend to have a 'smooth' sound. The pricy ones do many things very well. Replace the electrolytic with a film cap. I used Mundorf MKP. That choice is not so critical as the couplers.
c. PJCCS, resistor or chokes? This is were your system will dictate which way you go. If you also have tubes in your power amp you may prefer the PJCCS (clean, low distortion). If you have SS with a digital front end, with silver wires and high resolution speakers (horns, plannars, electrostats) you may like the chokes (big, easy, sexy, brings out the tubes). I think resistor would be the last choice, although I havent really gone back to the resistor. I have gone back and forth many times with the PJCCS/chokes. Wire the chokes as close as possible. I got more hum when the wires got longer. Double stick the choke to the chassis with some heavy duty tape (also helps with damping).
d. Internal wiring - I used pure silver. Sorry. I like silver. I find it to be clean and revealing. The only place I used copper was on the power lines.
e. Batteries - the only thing I can say here, is that I 'think' I like my large NMH pack the best (vs. Lipo4). Lead acid I'm sure would do the same. Run some decent gauge wire from the battery. Lots of quick reserve power. I also took Paul's advice and bypassed it with a cap (22uF). Not sure if it helps or not. Time will tell.
f. I have NOT invested in boutique RCA jacks. That could be next, but probably not.
g. Base - As you can see, I used crutch tips for the feet/base (open air design - more like the easy way out design). My Quickie sits on the carpeted floor over a tension concrete slab. Solid.
The red wire hanging out is a ground wire that I connect to my DAC chassis. It got rid of the hum. RCA grounding may also be the culprit. Dont care, it works. - As of today, and for the recent past, I have NO hum, ringing, fuzz, or any other typical tube shenanigans. Not that I mind them in small doses.
Brings me to my last 'mod'. Telefunken tubes. For sure the best in all ways IMO. Sound, ring, tube shenanigans etc. If you see them, buy them.
Ok now for the ranking - in order of sound benefits/bang for buck.
1. Sound deadening/micro-phonics prevention. For sure the cheapest, and IMO the most important. The Quickie is ridiculously micro-phonic, if you dont believe me clap your hands! Its important to stop this, not only for the ringing but there is smearing of the signal. Its hard to hear. The best way to test for that is to make a super insulating cover for the tubes. Listen to the sound for awhile, low and high volume, then take them off and repeat the process.
2. Caps - coupling caps are #1 after sound deadening. I feel that a pair of $50 caps in this position is well worth it. Personally, I like Mundorf for the bucks. I would love to hear a V-cap in there though! It starts getting silly. The good thing about caps is that they can be used in many different DIY applications. The money will not go to waist.
3. PJCCS, or chokes. I can 'clearly' hear a difference between having them in or not. Same as with the caps.
4. Pot - no, not that kind. That would probably be #1, but the volume control is up there, but dont loose your mind. I am happy with a $45 pot. IMO a good pot gives you better staging and 'air'.
5. Internal wiring - highly debatable topic. I'll put it at number 3.
6. Resistors - I dont really know about this one, since I did most of the mods at one time. Resistors may come after chokes, but this would be my guess.
So, that does it. Not sure if I got them all. Let me know if there is something I missed!
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Hey Eric,
Thankyou for taking the time to post that.
I have had a somewhat different experience with dampening the tubes in my quickie. I had initially wrapped mine with several layers of teflon tape, which made a noticeable improvement to the ringing. It was still not quite to my satisfaction, so I added more (about 1/8 roll per tube). This brought me closer to where I wanted to be.
At that stage, I was sort of drunk with power at my tweaking ability, so I decided to go crazy and add a shit-ton more PTFE and weight (very tightly wrapped copper wire with additional teflon tape around the outside) to each tube. This made a startlingly negative impact to the sound. I had sucked the life out of my quickie, leaving behind a very dull and over-damped (compressed/muffled?) sort of sound. Removing the additional weight and layers of PTFE brought back the magic that I had before.
I suspect that each system and tubeset will have a different response to the dampening process, and for some.. may not be necessary at all. I bet all that silver in your quickie makes it very revealing, where any vibrations in the tube at all is painfully brought to attention... I say this because I did the experiment with 4 sets of 3s4's that I had lying around, and found that there was a point where each could overdamped in my system.
I would only add to your post, that for some cheaper thrills, throwing a couple of elna silmics and a pair of Caddock's in for bypass, makes a very cheap and transformative change to this preamp. (much cleaner and punchier bass than stock.)
I second the telefunken tubes as well... they are very choice. (the vintage RCA's are sweet as well)
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Hey Matt - interesting!
I started with silicone and rubber bands. Then progressed slowly to where I am now. I ran them 'nude' for a period as well. I think I have experienced what you are talking about, being 'over damped'. I dont remember what I did that caused that kind of sound. Thats when I was running nude for awhile. These are, for sure, VERY subjective changes!
I never tried Teflon. I have a feeling that the sound ends up reflecting back and forth within the tube, which causes that 'dead' sound. Thats why I went with metals covered with rubber. Hum... how about lead! Who knows, maybe I should have thrown in an 'eye of neut'!
I think in the end, I stuck with whatever techniques provided the most 'stability'. The tube rolling produced such large differences that I kept the dampers a constant variable.
I also had the 1000uF elna silmics in for the electrolytics. I really like them, I have used them in my t-amps, but the films sound better IMO. Not by much though.
I also like the RCA's! Now my second favorite with the Quickie!
cheers - Eric
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Thanks for the report, Eric.
FWIW, for me, the NOS RCA tubes I found rang like Quasimodo, and it was the "Mullard" CV820s that were quietest. I do hope to try out the coupling caps next, but haven't done it yet as the sound was surprisingly good stock and with PJCCS.
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instead of tiring to damp the tube, has anyone tried isolating it? I'm thinking dangling the tube, socket and all in a glass jar or lead lined Kyptonite proof vault or something. you get the idea...John
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John,
Ah, you've spoiled my surprise :-). Actually I was going to make a small plate to hold the tubes and as many of the passive parts as I can, then either hang it or float it from/on the top plate, but I'm also going to a slightly larger (8" x 10") chassis format, probably with a copper top plate. That is the eventual plan -- I will most likely build it stock first and then gradually try things to get me where I want, which will be as the perfect partner to a second s.e.x. 2.1 amp I also plan to build.
-- Jim
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hummm.... Interesting ideas!
Mine is pretty much prefect. It is absolutely silent. Just to make sure that they are still tubes, I touch them every now and then to hear the crackles, hum, thumps etc. When I have friends over I touch the tube, when I'm getting things set up, just so everyone can have that nostalgic tube experience!
VUUUMP, VUUMP,...VUUMP, VUUMP - test,.... testing one, two.....
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Eric, I found cheap Sorbothane rings that fit pretty well over the tubes. I have started out with two, one on the body of the tube, and one underneath on the underside of the tube socket. Haven't had much chance to even listen yet, but actually will have a lot of time on my hands now. I decided that I had just about enough of the college and resigned. O boy...
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Eric, I found cheap Sorbothane rings that fit pretty well over the tubes. I have started out with two, one on the body of the tube, and one underneath on the underside of the tube socket. Haven't had much chance to even listen yet, but actually will have a lot of time on my hands now. I decided that I had just about enough of the college and resigned. O boy...
Hey, I guess you and me both! - I quit my job a couple of weeks ago as well. Couldnt take it anymore. I will be plugging back in though. I'm an RN with 30yrs experience. Its just a matter of what I'm willing to put up with. Its fun to have more time to abscess about the kit though! I have switched out caps and inductors AGAIN in my maggies. Back to the paper/oils. Whatever! Could be worse. Fortunately my wife is working as an RN, so I can coast for a spell!
peace, love, dope = ) Eric
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... Its fun to have more time to abscess about the kit though!
Better have the wife check out that abscess, not good! ;)
Cheers,
Geary
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LOL! I just realized myself that I used that word! - It fits though!
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Hey guys, there are many good ideas you have used to do some interesting mods on your quickies. I purchased mine some time ago, but have not had time to build it yet. In fact I was going to build it last week, and discovered that I have misplaced my plastic chassis plate, so for now, I am up the creek without a paddle. However, I have been trying to secure a piece of teflon sheet about 1/4 of an inch thick, and try to make a chassis plate from that. If that works out, who knows, the teflon may address some of the tube microphonic issues.
Another mod I often do on my preamps, is to eliminate the INPUT RCA's, and hard wire the interconnect directly to the vol. control. It really makes a sonic inprovement.
Thanks. Great stuff guys.
Bernie.
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Hello Bernie,
We do have some extra Quickie chassis plates at the office (which is rare, it can take me several weeks to make a batch), if you'd like to purchase an extra one.
-PB
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Eric,
What is an RN???
shreekant :)
BTW, picked up some single malts from Dubai....... Ardbeg,Laphroaig, Glengoyne, Jula,Auchentosen and an Irish single called Connemera ( never tired an Irish before). ;D ;D ;D
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Eric,
What is an RN???
shreekant :)
BTW, picked up some single malts from Dubai....... Ardbeg,Laphroaig, Glengoyne, Jula,Auchentosen and an Irish single called Connemera ( never tired an Irish before). ;D ;D ;D
Registered Nurse - Dude you are quite the jet setter! Hanging out, drinking single malts in Dubai! How are the hookers over there?
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It IS not! It means Real Nerd.
What if you used a stiff sheet of dampening material? Or dampening material over teflon? I check a plate by tapping it while being held by the corner. Most materials ring.
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I am serious about the glass jar. I was at IKEA, the other day, where most of my project cases come from 8).
And found this. http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/40065867/ (http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/40065867/) They have nice thick glass and a good seal.
I'm thinking, drill a hole in the lid. Hang the socket by its wires, or rig a nice suspension, poke in a thin plastic tube. Seal it up with some silicone seal.
Then suck the air out.
Isolate the tube without dampening it
We don't need a perfect vacuum. Hook it up to your vacuum sealer, or do you have one of those brake bleeders. We're DIY guys, you'll think of something, though if your getting ready to fire the getter, call me ;D
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Registered Nurse - Dude you are quite the jet setter! Hanging out, drinking single malts in Dubai! How are the hookers over there?
[/quote]
Well, on a Thursday night it is difficult to walk around. The theme has changed from Russian to African. You cant enter a bar or night club. Its that bad.
I was there in 2007 or 08, and the place has taken a dive since then, The place looks washed out and boaring.
shreekant :)
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Ok, I guess I can jump in here with my experiments.
I purchased the quickie with PJCCS but decided to build it stock first. I was very impressed by how quiet it was. It was instantly better than my modded Foreplay II. The tubes provided sounded good but were very sensitive to my fingers and bumping the attached cables and rang easily with any vibration. They do settle down after a couple of seconds and just get back to making music. As good as it was I knew from many years of playing with my various Foreplay tweaks that there was room for improvement.
PJCCS - Ah, now we're getting somewhere! This made a very nice difference adding a bit better focus to the soundstage, tighter bass, and just a fuller sound.
Output Caps - After the power supply this is the most noticeable area of improvement.
1. Sonicaps (Gen 1) - These brought much better resolution over the stock caps, more air between instruments, better dynamics, tighter and better defined bass. These run on the slightly brighter side of neutral and so provide less of the tube warmth many people like. If you like a leaner and closer to solid state sound then consider these.
2. Clarity Cap ESA Series - These are very interesting and unique caps. Both detailed and dynamic but with a very warm overall sound. This is particularly noticeable on the higher frequencies. If you have bright sounding speakers then these may just be the ticket for you. I really love these in my S.e.X. Amp. I really liked them in my Quickie but was very curious about trying the next step up in Clarity's line up.
3. Clarity Cap MR Series - Holy &$%#! My jaw hung, mouth agape, and I was just stunned at how much more information I was hearing! Yes, you will pay a price for it but considering the low cost of the Quickie it's not too bad of a hit to the wallet. One small caveat, they do take a few hundred hours to sound their best but even early on they were an immediate improvement over the ESA caps. Older recordings seemed blown up in space and resolution. Cliche as it sounds I heard stuff in familiar recordings that went previously unnoticed. I could go on and on about these.
(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi576.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss207%2Fcorndog642%2FBottlehead%2520Quickie%2Fb374d05f.jpg&hash=de345e669b2e3a5ffd9142e663d2aab9f26992b4)
Vibration control - Initially I borrowed the wood base from my Foreplay II as the plates are the same size. This certainly made my Quickie look nicer but did nothing to suppress vibration. I happened to have some foam bricks used for shipping expensive servors handy so I cut one to just a little wider than the wood base.
(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi576.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss207%2Fcorndog642%2FBottlehead%2520Quickie%2F8f408d8e.jpg&hash=6c76acf7c5d24345a46495d9589669f390618f15)
But then I thought I'd go simpler.
(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi576.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss207%2Fcorndog642%2FBottlehead%2520Quickie%2F7669d368.jpg&hash=14b914bb8c19b18960f72b60edc627e4bdfe9618)
That helped some but still not perfect. Eventually I decided to splurge on a pair of Herbie's Tube Dampers. Now we're getting somewhere. At first I didn't really hear much of a difference. Then I tried some different tubes with and without the damper rings and noticed that they did help cut down on the ringing. I had to bend them smaller to get them to fit the tubes even though they were supposed to fit the 3S4. Not a bad tweak for the money but not a necessity. Unless you're like me and want to cover every base.
That's pretty much all I did with my stock Quickie. Eventually I wanted to build an all out Quickie as I had lots of ideas on how to take the design further.
Here's a list of features on the Ultimate Quickie:
1. 3"x10"x17" Hammond aluminum box and lid
2. a sheet of Dynamat Extreme
3. Erse Pulse X film caps for the power supply
4. Goldpoint selector switch for switching the signal and ground of each input
5. PRP Resistors in the power supply
6. Two D-Cell holders per channel wired in parallel for longer play time
7. 16AWG wire for power supply connections (I know, total overkill here! ;D)
8. Homegrownaudio 22AWG cotton-insulated and teflon-insulated silver wire for signal
9. Three Power Sonic rechargeable 12V/5Ah SLA batteries for 36VDC supply
10. PEC 100K Volume Pots
(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi576.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss207%2Fcorndog642%2FBottlehead%2520Quickie%2FIMG_6781_zpsea11e3b9.jpg&hash=ee9559a73dae99b92fc83ee60c0b9eb8030be700)
With the previously mentioned Clarity MR caps this turned into quite the project. Since all of this came together at once it's hard to say where improvements came from. Well, the Dynamat really cuts down on ringing from the tubes as does the boxed design. Now my fingers don't get close to the tubes when I'm fiddling with any of the controls. I don't bump into the cables anymore since they're all in the back which also helps avoid ringing. I really think the film caps cleaned up the sound vs. the stock electrolytics. The music seems more lifelike and faster. In the end I think it sounds fantastic and well worth my efforts.
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thanks Rob for the comprehensive update and impressions!
The Clarity Cap MR's are certainly a great cap. When I get a job I might spring for some. Curious you should mention the gauge of wire on the power supply connection. I actually used some old Audioquest type 4 wire on my power supply. I 'think' it improved the sound! This shit is crazy, so I dont admit to it much. So be it! - I like it!
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Coincidently the white power supply and ground wires came from some old audioquest type 6 wire I experimented with 10 years ago. It was nowhere near as good as Kimber 4TC as a speaker wire but I liked the solid core wires and saved them for projects just like this. One of the things I like about this hobby is how reusable things like caps, resistors, and wires can be. The only down side is hanging on to it all over the years takes up space.
Oh and you don't have to feel too crazy about wires making an audible difference. Check out what Shunyata has come up with as far as measurable differences.
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Funny how wire gets used more than once. I keep using AudioQuest 'Midnight' speaker cable for all kinds of hook ups. But I have to remember that the ground wire has a semi-conductive insulation. About 10 ohms .
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I also noticed that Rob has his Quickie mounted in a cut out block of foam. That is a very good idea! I like it. You dont have to worry about heat or anything. Might help with microphonics.
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Eric,
I tried foam mounting, with the high density packing type, low density cushioning and a open air type I got from work. Neither worked for microphonics. I don't have alot of external vibrations that aren't caused by me mucking around with components. I settled on copper tape and tube dampers. In my mind it made a difference (putting the Quickie on it's own shelf may have helped too but that wasn't part of the experiment so it's discounted...) and it looks really nice. I want to try some thin copper wire to wind the tubes in...
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copper tape! - cool - The foam just makes the Quickie look so comfortable!
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I'm glad to see Bottleheads coming up with approaches to deal with microphony. It's simply an inherent part of using directly heated tubes for low level signals. They sound so resolving that we need to keep coming up with approaches to deal with this one potential shortcoming. We seem to have gotten the other issue - hum- sorted out pretty well. And if one can create an environment where the directly heated tubes don't pick up vibration, well, in my book there is nothin' else that sounds as good.
I have seen some reduction of ringing with the application of copper tape on some tube types by looking at the ringing on a scope. It doesn't eliminate it, but it can reduce it noticeably. Our racks are composed of a stack of Ikea Lack tables, which are very low mass. Many years ago a friend, Andy Bartha, made me a big batch of pucks made from lead shot mixed with a pourable silicone sealer made for patching mobile home roofs. He molded them in different sized muffin tins. I had the inspiration to place a set of these high mass pucks under the Bee Pre and a set under my Eros. They seem to reduce the energy transfer of any vibration of the shelf to the chassis quite well.
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The foam worked well against ground borne vibrations but couldn't control vibrations transferred through my cables. My ultimate quickie solves that by providing a very stable chassis.
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Good thinking, all of this. Follow the source. If it is cables, change cables. I use Nordost because of that very fact. But I also believe in the greater mass approach. Then, if isolation is added at the right juncture, that is all we can do...now where IS that right juncture? I thought that the base of the tube would be effective, but no, there is still vibration coming directly through the pins. Detaching the tube socket may help us here. I am planning to put my Quickie into a more suitable enclosure. That may be the time to deal the rest of this issue.
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Detaching the tube socket may help us here.
It might be a tradeoff between vibrations coming up through your rack and into the plate and airborne vibrations.
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You might try the trick we use on the SEX amp, putting a soft o-ring between the socket and the chassis. It will require longer screws.
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To what degree do the microphonics decrease the quality of the sound? I don't hear that dramatic of a difference between listening on headphones (where the microsphonics should be reduced) and out loud.
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To what degree do the microphonics decrease the quality of the sound? I don't hear that dramatic of a difference between listening on headphones (where the microsphonics should be reduced) and out loud.
With my original Quickie I only heard them when my fingers are bumping against the cables or tubes. If I'm not touching it then I don't hear any. I too wondered if they may be affected by high volumes but I don't listen at high volumes very often and even when I do it still sounds fantastic.
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To what degree do the microphonics decrease the quality of the sound? I don't hear that dramatic of a difference between listening on headphones (where the microsphonics should be reduced) and out loud.
I 'thought' I heard an increase in resolution after I properly damped the tubes. This may be totally subjective.
I liken it to how a camera looses resolution when there are extraneous light rays refracting at odd angles on the front element of the lens (flair).
To me it makes sense, due to the ability of the tube to produce sound from amplifying extraneous sounds from the room. Anyway, I sleep a little better!
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Try to take photo while riding on a moving train. Ya gotta compensate. Same with the audio I think. There is a point of diminishing returns, I'm sure, and yes, if you don't play music that loud, I agree the room acoustics and air borne waves don't matter much. I am the same way. I listen softer and closer than before.
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To what degree do the microphonics decrease the quality of the sound? I don't hear that dramatic of a difference between listening on headphones (where the microsphonics should be reduced) and out loud.
Sam,
I have a couple of pair of tubes that you can hear the ring just below the music level when played on ~half the pot range (thru my speakers). To me thats a significant decrease in quality. My current pair is only noisy when distrubed no matter the volume level. They have rubber grommets seperating the tube bases and copper tape on the tubes. It is also isolated with sand filled feet until I can build a sandbox that looks good.
Alonzo
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Sam,
I have a couple of pair of tubes that you can hear the ring just below the music level when played on ~half the pot range (thru my speakers). To me thats a significant decrease in quality. My current pair is only noisy when distrubed no matter the volume level. They have rubber grommets seperating the tube bases and copper tape on the tubes. It is also isolated with sand filled feet until I can build a sandbox that looks good.
Alonzo
Hmmm... If you're hearing the ringing WITH the music then you may want to consider trying some different tubes.
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Oh yeah, those tubes are gone. Got a good set of Tele's in there now. Wish you could recycle/reform problem tubes, hate to throw anything away.
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I was at a swap meet with my dear old bud Crazy Eric, maybe 10 years ago. Eric would move about eight times as fast as anyone else at the swap meets and snag the best deals at the meet, then go back and cruise the possibilities left. So at this particular meet he finds an RCA-UX250 tube. Very collectible, I sold a pair of NOS for $800 in the early 2000s. The structure inside this one is tilted, looks like it could definitely have a problem. He buys it for $15. Walks over to me and says, "here goes nuthin'. Whaps the tube hard in his hand, a couple times. The structure straightens right up. Tube tested fine after that.
The lesson learned? Smack 'em around if they don't behave. You might knock something that has been ringing into a state that makes the tube settle down. Or not. What have you got to lose?
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Ha!!! So that's the reason my Dad used to hit the TV....couldn't make it any worse. ;D
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Hi there,
Being a new Quickie owner, I am very excited about further improving the already awesome sound of it. So far I have replaced the pot with an Alps RK27 and installed Telefunken's.
Main concern at the moment is microphonic. Today I have put self adhesive foam strips (the stuff one uses to seal window frames) between the base and the top plate, which reduced microphonic considerably.
I plan to also try to make the top plate more rigid and stable. I thought about glueing small wooden bars to the underside of the plate. What are your opinions about that?
I have also ordered new coupling caps (Claritycaps mr), which I am looking forward to.
Best
Michael
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Making the plate more rigid will simply transfer the vibrational energy into the microphonic tube more efficiently. What you want is soft, squishy mass that impedes the transfer of the energy. One thing that can help is some lossy material between the base and the shelf it sits on. I use these little lead shot and silicone pucks. Something like sorbothane hemispheres will probably work well too.
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Just got doing the Sorbothane idea to support the plastic plate from the box, and yes, there is a notable difference.
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Thank you Doc B. Sounds plausible. I will change my strategy accordingly.
Michael
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Guys,
What kind of copper tape are you recommending and how did you apply it? Would this work: http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/ElectricalOEM/Home/Products/Catalog/~/3M-EMI-Copper-Foil-Shielding-Tape-1181-1-4-in-x-18-yd-6-35-mm-x-16-5-m-36-per-case?N=4294705660+5428620&Nr=AND%28hrcy_id%3AGSRXMKDHQ2gs_7W8LMHK4C8_N2RL3FHWVK_GPD0K8BC31gv%29&loc=en_US&plmlblid=1273692470463&rt=d&sorttype=list (http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/ElectricalOEM/Home/Products/Catalog/~/3M-EMI-Copper-Foil-Shielding-Tape-1181-1-4-in-x-18-yd-6-35-mm-x-16-5-m-36-per-case?N=4294705660+5428620&Nr=AND%28hrcy_id%3AGSRXMKDHQ2gs_7W8LMHK4C8_N2RL3FHWVK_GPD0K8BC31gv%29&loc=en_US&plmlblid=1273692470463&rt=d&sorttype=list)?
Thanks
Michael
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That tape would be fine, but I would consider wider tape. You can always cut to perfect width with 2" tape.
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Copper tape sounds like a good idea. I just went with the copper tube. Just an addition though, I feel the aluminum also is needed. I coated the copper with aluminum foil. I 'think' it was better with the aluminum. YMMV.
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I think Doc is right about the plate and microphonics, I used [Palight-Palram] a PVC foam as plate, and spikes in a wood bild. To get some microphonics I need to hit the plate. Or just got luck with the tubes- Motorola's and Pope's
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got those delivered today ;D . will install them over x-mas and will report back once they're broken in.
Michael
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WAAAIT A MINUTE, you can't just be showning stuff like that here. Craaaazy people( I will NOT mention Eric's name out of respect) will see it and who knows what it will lead to. Like raiding the kid's inheritance or something. I am going to pretend that the Obliggato caps in my Quickie are all I need, and nothing else....except this chair..and that's ALL I need, my caps, and this chair...and this book of matches-----remember the movie "The Jerk"?
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got those delivered today ;D . will install them over x-mas and will report back once they're broken in.
Michael
Excellent! Btw, I wrapped the leads of mine with plumber's teflon tape.
(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi576.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss207%2Fcorndog642%2FBottlehead%2520Quickie%2F102d2791.jpg&hash=b98b0e4ec5b8dd316c425e3be18b98edcc1090f5)
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WAAAIT A MINUTE, you can't just be showning stuff like that here. Craaaazy people( I will NOT mention Eric's name out of respect) will see it and who knows what it will lead to. Like raiding the kid's inheritance or something. I am going to pretend that the Obliggato caps in my Quickie are all I need, and nothing else....except this chair..and that's ALL I need, my caps, and this chair...and this book of matches-----remember the movie "The Jerk"?
LOL! - I was thinkin - are those the MRs? Yep. I do have a hankerin for a couple of those, but alas, I'm off the 'cap crusade' for now. Got other fish to fry. Got to switch a couple of Quickies to balanced! Now, thats the schiit.
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Put my new Clarity Caps in today. Nice upgrade so far ;D
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Do you think that dampening caps helps their performance? Just wondering, 'cuz I used Sorbothane under mine.
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Do you think that dampening caps helps their performance? Just wondering, 'cuz I used Sorbothane under mine.
I really don't know. I have not tried dampening single components. I use Sorbothane under my main speakers, which makes an audible difference (we have wooden floors).
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Do you think that dampening caps helps their performance? Just wondering, 'cuz I used Sorbothane under mine.
I believe the Clarity ESA and MR caps have damping built into the design. There seems to be something to it. I've seen experiments with potting speaker crossovers and they supposedly sounded better than unpotted. I don't have experience with potting but I understand it to be a pain in the butt. It's also permanent and thus not so good for us tweakers.
Keep having fun experimenting and tell us if YOU hear anything.
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resonance in caps is an interesting phenomenon....
There are two factors, internal, and external resonance. Internal resonance you cant improve by external dampening. The internal resonance has to do with a harmonic due to the flow of electrons through the cap, in relation to the dielectric etc, bla bla bla. Thats the kind of resonance that you have to largely be concerned with. Good caps take care of that. Thats one of the reasons why they cost the mega bucks! External resonance is not as big a deal, and if the former is taken care of the latter should be a minimal issue IMHO!
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Makes sense Wax.... Great looking work Zimmer! I even appreciate the "citrus garnish" you provided for the photo... :) ... Gotta say,the looks of those clarity caps just oooze quality... When i am ready for my bottle head projects, they will be on my extreme "shortlist".....
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Two points:
1) Mr. Grammar says: Dampening is misting with water. Damping is absorbing vibrational energy" :^)
sorry, that one's a pet peeve; I'm pretty sure the battle is lost, but like those mythical Japanese soldiers lost in South Pacific island jungles, I keep fighting.
2) Mechanical vibration exists in capacitors, due to the electrical attraction as the voltage between electrodes varies. This is in addition to the electrical resonances that earwaxxer describes. It is quite audible with some caps! There are many modes of mechanical vibration, some of which have little or no motion at the outer surface, and others than can be damped at the outer surface.
3) There are in practice quite a large number of damping materials and methods that have nearly no effect at all, and very few that are truly effective. This is true of almost all vibration problems I've run across, and I've run across quite a few! That's why sharing experiences on a forum like this is so valuable - we are not all Thomas Edisons, willing to try 10,000 different materials before finding baked sewing thread makes a decent light bulb filament!
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well said Paul... I'm a auto spell checking slob so I usually pick the wrong correction. Sorry - it is DAMPING for the record. But yes, to further beat the horse, the 'resonance' problems with caps is not an easy solution.
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I tried dampening my caps once, my short hairs are still tingling.
'And, stop criticizing my baking!' that's what I thought I heard as I slowly walked the old Edison place.
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Not to be "Johnny Spellchecker" here..... Isnt it GRAMMAR?..... At first, I thought Paul was actually talking about a "real" Mr. Grammer, and again, ACTUALLY went scrolling for Mr. Grammer's post that Paul was correcting! hahaha Then, as I read it again, It hit me that he was referring to a grammatical error..... Yeah, yeah I know, I'm not very smart.... haha :)
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Not to be "Johnny Spellchecker" here..... Isnt it GRAMMAR?.....
I have corrected my post, with some embarrassment. Guess that will teach me to be less pedantic, or at least post more carefully after the second eggnog. :^)
It isn't isnt, it's isn't. Isn't it? Haha, sorry, couldn't pass it up. Good thing this is a forum of friends!
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The thing is, I'm not shy about not being able to spell! I have been 'enabled' since a child, due to being a proficient mathematician. I would cheat on spelling tests and the teachers would just turn the other way! I dont let my son get away with that though..
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4krow - Are you serious that dampening caps is beneficial, or was that post some humour outside of my range of comprehension?
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I did damp my Vcaps and did not find any benefit. But having the cap secured, rather than having it dangling on its leads did matter. So, if that amounts to damping then maybe be it makes sense. On the Quickie, I have the caps (obbligato) placed against the frame and I have some silicon adhesive ( the kind you use in fish tanks, the stuff that remains soft)placed on the cap and the frame. I does not move and hopefully the soft adhesive helps.
I have used this silicon gel to line my subs as well, to avoid air gaps, and at the same time ensure that it does not harden and crack , due to vibration. I have tried to post some pics of my rooms, but it seems that the upload area is full. Maybe Doc will be in better shape on the 2nd !!!
shreekant :)
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I damp (acoustically speaking) anything that has mass, hoping to make the mass combine with the structure of the chassis. Nothing really sounds different on it's own, so it takes combined effort make a small difference. Kinda like racing cars. Nothing on it's own stands out so much but tied together you might get another 1/4 second sliced off your race time.
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agreed.... I believe there was an old saying 'damp it and forget it'. Or, something like that.
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Haha , Oh, I see Mr. Paul is a "tit for tat" kinda guy... :) And the word "isnt" is what I always do only because I am just too damn lazy.... I am not in the correcting business, but, I thought it funny that I went on the hunt for a 'real' Mr. Grammer.... And No sweat, eggnog is pretty dang delicious... However, after the holidays, we will expect perfection from you Mr. Paul... haha kidding... Enjoy your holidays embarrassment free, we all know you are a sharp cookie...
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Can someone confirm wiring for a TKD pot? Same as stock part?
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Hell... its pain to take out all the IC's and take a pic, cause than I have to let the cables settle in again, but if you do not get a reply ( which I am sure you will ) then I will do it.
shreekant :)
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Thanks. I understand completely. The Parts Connexion product description of 'typical' balance pot wiring has introduced doubt (different than stock part), so do appreciate confirmation from anyone who's implemented a 2cp-601.
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Brillo,
A balance control is much different from a volume pot. Are you asking about a TDK volume or balance pot? There is no balance pot on the stock Quickie. You ask if the TDK is wired as the stock part.
If volume, look in Grainger's Corner (forum main page). There is a FAQ thread that explains how to suss out what connector is which on an unknown volume pot.
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I found this graphic helped -
http://www.partsconnexion.com/controls_pot_tkd.html
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Hi guys,
I am planning on upgrading my quickie 1.1 and will do the following
1. Install PJCCS
Then after some time upgrade the caps and potentiometer.
I have a question and hope you can help me. The caps in the stock Quickie are 2.2uf 250vdc. I have noticed in this thread that people have upgraded to 2.2uf 630vdc. Obviously this works but I am wondering if when going back to do the voltage checks this would affect the readings? I am thinking yes but would like to know how to calculate what the new voltages should be.
Also would their be able big difference between a 400vdc cap and 600vdc cap?
I hope these questions are too much but would like a better understanding.
Thanks for your replies....Dave
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I do not believe that new caps will change the voltage readings. The voltage specification just determine's how much max voltage the cap can take.
Best
Michael
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You will pay more for a higher voltage rating. I tend to think its worth it. There appears to be some consensus that the higher voltage caps sound somewhat better. We all have to decide where to draw the line though.
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Your power supply is 36V. The caps need not be any higher than that. But to get good sounding caps you have to buy higher voltage ratings than you need.
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Going back to the Clarity Cap MR that everyone uses... 2.2uf? And does the voltage matter? I can get the 400V much cheaper than the 630V ones. And the cap in the power supply can be any value, just anything over 36V? How many uf? Thanks
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Hey Mortin - I agree to spend some $ on the coupling cap (2.2uf), dont need the super high voltage ones. That one makes the most difference, its also a reasonably small value to keep it 'affordable'.
The electrolytic (1000uf) is a bypass cap for the cathode resistor (Rk) that sets the bias. It eliminates negative feedback (cathode degeneration). Without that cap there would be negative feedback that would decrease gain. According to Paul you can go as low as about 47uf and not have any bass roll-off. I have a 56uf film cap in there. Most people like to get rid of the electrolytics if at all possible for a more restful sleep. Dont go crazy on that one IMO. Dont worry about the voltage rating as long as its 50V or over.
Enjoy -
here is a cathode bypass calculator to give you an idea of how that capacitor works.
http://ampbooks.com/home/amplifier-calculators/cathode-capacitor/
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I think when you add lots of damping and some high quality coupling caps, having the film bypass caps bumps up the resolution just a little bit further. It's not as noticeable as the couple caps but I think if you want it to sound its best and don't mind the extra expense then it's not a bad investment. To be fair I lived with my original Quickie w/ PJCCS and stock electrolytics for a couple of years and loved it. I just wanted to see how far the circuit could go with some refinements. For the money it's still a ridiculous bargain.
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Here's your chance Quickie modders! The coveted Duelund CAST-PIO-Cu now on sale at Parts Connection. Not cheap grant you. These suckers are heirlooms though. I would love to hear the 10uf in my maggies, or the 2.2uf as a Quickie coupling cap. Just sayin. Sure its crazy money, but we have to spend it on something (Granger, hint, hint).
http://www.partsconnexion.com/capacitor_film_duelund_pio_elec_new.html
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Ha ha! I love the pictures of the Duelund caps next to the Coke cans...too funny. I actually wish they would do that more often, to give me a better visual feel for how big my caps are before I buy them.
Now, just to make sure I didn't misunderstand something, I could replace the electrolytic 1,000 uf cap in the Quickie with, say, a 100uf film cap? With no performance detriment, and a possible (depending on how much Cool-Aid you've had) sonic benefit?
Best regards,
Adam
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1) Mr. Grammar says: Dampening is misting with water. Damping is absorbing vibrational energy" :^)
I think that's vocabulary, not grammar. But what do I know, I'm a former physicist. There's gotta be at least one joke in there: a physicist, an engineer, and a mathematician look at a schematic...
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Ha ha! I love the pictures of the Duelund caps next to the Coke cans...too funny. I actually wish they would do that more often, to give me a better visual feel for how big my caps are before I buy them.
Now, just to make sure I didn't misunderstand something, I could replace the electrolytic 1,000 uf cap in the Quickie with, say, a 100uf film cap? With no performance detriment, and a possible (depending on how much Cool-Aid you've had) sonic benefit?
Best regards,
Adam
It's not supposed to have an audible effect. I got the idea from another project of mine that surprised me. I swapped the fancy Panasonic electrolytic power supply caps in my ST35 amp for Clarity TC caps which are giant 700V film caps because they had a much lower ESR.
I heard an immediate improvement in resolution. This is particularly noticeable in the bass region. Music seems faster and there was a distinct lack of haze to the sound compared to the Panasonics.
I thought if it could work in my little 17.5 watt amp then maybe it could work in my ultimate quickie project. Granted I made numerous changes in my ultimate quickie just in layout. So it's hard for me to say what changes made the most significant effect. Nevertheless my ultimate quickie is better sounding than my original version.
With that in mind you can try them or not. It's your call. If you're happy with what you got then don't bother.
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Thanks, Rob. I can get a great deal on a ClarityCap SA 100uf. Is there any significant reason to prefer the TC series over the SA? I know the TC series is rated for higher voltage, but for a variety of reasons (including cost, covenience, shipping cost and speed), the SA version would be better for me if it is also suitable to the task...
Best regards,
Adam
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100uf would be fine to replace the electrolytics. I used a 56uf film there. There should be no bass roll-off down to about 42uf or so. I thought it improved the sound. Not as much as the coupling caps. I replaced all the resistors at the same time, so it was hard to say.
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Stick with the SA series. You don't need the TC caps for this.
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Definitely, dont go overboard on those. Any films will do the trick.
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Great, thanks!
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I just received a v 1.1 Quickie kit. The bypass cap is 150uF. I thought I'd upgrade it to a higher quality electrolytic (already spent too much on a boutique pot and the coupling caps). But not many electrolytics come in that value. Any suggestions? Team up a pair of 100s with 48s? Would another value be fine?
Thanks,
__Roy
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I didn't know that they changed the bypass cap to 150uf (from 1,000uf). I used an Elna Cerafine for those caps and Clarity ESA caps (3.3uf) for the output caps.
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I think anything from 47uF on up should work very well. We put the 150s in because we had them on hand for another product, while the 1000uF was only used in Quickie. Simplifies the inventory.
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Heres a bypass cap calculator that gives you a feel for how small that cap can be before it starts attenuating bass.
http://ampbooks.com/home/amplifier-calculators/cathode-capacitor/
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Thanks a lot -- for the simple answers and the calculator.
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47uF is sufficient.
-PB
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For some stupid reason, I thought there was only one 1,000uf electrolytic cap in the Quickie (this was before i had the kit in-hand, but I should have known that doesn't make sense), so when I decided to buy a replacement film cap, I only bought a single 100uf 630V ClarityCap SA. My chassis is red, and is a near-perfect match to the color of the outside of the ClarityCap. My plan had been to mount the battery holders on the underside of the chassis, and then to mount the ClarityCap horizontally across the back of the top side of the chassis. But now that I need two of these giant honkers, that isn't an option. So now I figure I have two options:
1. Mount the ClarityCaps to the outside of the case, parallel to the side walls, one left and one right, sort of like outboard pontoons (which would look slightly silly and would be inconvenient for various reasons) or
2. Mount the ClarityCaps vertically next to each other on the back of the top side of the chassis. The problem is that I can't figure out a realistic way to mount them safely and securely in that orientation, especially considering that I will need to lift the chassis whenever I need to change out the batteries (which will need to be mounted on the underside of the chassis).
Any suggestions on how to accomplish #2? Alternatively, instead of buying a second 100uf cap, I could try to return the one I have and exchange it for two smaller caps (50-60uf), but I've come to like these giant caps, so I would prefer not to go that route if someone has a good idea on how to mount them vertically...
Best regards,
Adam
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If you are looking for a clean way to secure them, I like the 3M super strong double sided tape. Its a thick gel type tape rated for 5lbs. I use it to hold my caps on the back of my maggies.
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Thanks for that suggestion, Eric. So basically I would apply the tape to one end of the caps, thread the leads through a hole in the chassis, and then just stick the caps on their respective ends onto the chassis? I might put a black cable tie around the top of the caps, just to hold them together and prevent the caps from splaying outwards. Just to confirm, you think that would hold long-term (at least more than a year)?
And just to confirm, I assume this is the product you are referring to? http://www.amazon.com/3M-03615-Scotch-Mount-Molding-Tape/dp/B000BO9L00/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1370444261&sr=8-7&keywords=3m+super+strong+automotive+attachment+tape (http://www.amazon.com/3M-03615-Scotch-Mount-Molding-Tape/dp/B000BO9L00/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1370444261&sr=8-7&keywords=3m+super+strong+automotive+attachment+tape)
Thanks again for the suggestions. If this works, it will be a much simpler and cost effective solution than anything else I might have cooked up...
Best,
Adam
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I used to let mine hang loose. ;D
(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi576.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss207%2Fcorndog642%2FBottlehead%2520Quickie%2F102d2791.jpg&hash=b98b0e4ec5b8dd316c425e3be18b98edcc1090f5)
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Eric,
What are your thoughts on the tape vs. something like epoxy, Weldbond glue or "Goop"? The latter two products seem to be what Madisound stocks for similar purposes...
I imagine the tape is easier to work with, less prone to flowing out from under the caps, and since it presumably bonds instantly, is safer than waiting for glue or Goop to dry while the caps are suspended on-end.
Best regards,
Adam
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In my experience glue is never as good as a mechanical connection for caps. The best thing is to use a zip tie hold down that is screw mounted to the chassis plate and strap the cap down to that with a zip tie. Caps are covered with very slippery plastic (polypropylene? polyester?) and no adhesive sticks to it very well.
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That's what I originally wanted to do...but that seems like it would be challenging with the caps mounted vertically. Maybe I can screw two vertical brackets to the outside of the back wall of the chassis, and then zip-tie the caps to the bracket...
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By "bracket" I meant a mending plate similar to this one (http://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-10-in-Zinc-Plated-Mending-Plate-15390/202034036). I think that should do the trick nicely. I can screw two of them vertically to the back, then strap the caps to them using two zip ties each (one high, one low).
Best,
Adam
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This 3M stuff is pretty amazing. I also use it to secure my cables to the wall molding when I have to run wire for a distance. It sticks. For a long time. For me, I'm always screwing with my shit anyway, so its easy to yank it off and put a new slab down when I'm done. I dont have to drill any holes or anything, so I dont have to commit on where the thing is going to stay.
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Ok onward and upward... I stumbled onto an awesome realization. Sure, I know, 'ok Eric you're just fucked up on dope'. Nope, thats not it. I'm pretty flat blown away. This is real. I have liked my modded Quickie now for some time. What I didnt fully realize until the past couple of weeks, is that resistors make a LARGE difference.
I didnt realize that because I did my resistor mods along with several others all at the same time. What I didnt do, is swap out one pair (the 1K's that are in parallel with the electrolytics). The reason was, at the time, I had some good electrolytics in there, and I didnt feel like hastleing with them. Well, many months have past. The electrolytics are long gone, and there sat the two 1Kohm Dales in there (they were the first level upgrade - I later replaced the Dales with Tantlelums). What picked my curiosity is that, on a lark, I subbed in a couple of high quality carbon comps in the 220ohm spot (where they originally were in the stock kit). I was hoping to get some euphony or something. Not sure. Well, that didnt happen. The Tants that I had in there blew them away. The comps just dumbed everything down. Resolution went to shit. Sure they werent 'burned in', but when I hear something that has that far to go, I yank it. Anyway, back in with the Tants. That experience got me back online and I ordered a couple of 1K tants from Parts Express. Now, several weeks later. I'm getting around to listening to some music that I havent listened to in awhile. Good shit homer. Unexpected.
Curious if anyone else loves the Tants? From what I have read about them, most people really like them. What I can say, is they are super clean and resolved. Tight and quick.
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Who are you calling tight n quick(ie)?
Ok, I have tried the tants to change the input impedance of my integrated amp. My view is mixed. More detail, perhaps. More edgey perhaps.
And BTW, I didn't have to use dope to get fucked up, i was born that way(the dope did make some enhancements though).
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I thought this might be of interest to Quickie modders.
They claim this is the largest film cap ever made? 63 volts is good for a Quickie.
http://www.audiocap.co.uk/jsp-series-stacked-film-470uf--63v-capacitor-345-p.asp
Michael
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I just looked at caps that are even biggger ,by a LOT at madisound. Some crrrazy guy here is using them in place of the electrolytics. They look to be almost the size of coke cans!
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Interesting. Reasonable price, too. But probably overkill for the Quickie. The v1.1 Quickie only uses 150uf electrolytics, and Paul has said that these can be replaced with any film caps over 47uf... I just built mine with 100uf ClarityCap SAs, and I can assure you that the bass is deep, hard and solid.
Greg, if you were referring to me...I can confirm that the ClarityCap SAs are considerably bigger than a Coke can! ;D
Best,
Adam
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I just looked at caps that are even biggger ,by a LOT at madisound. Some crrrazy guy here is using them in place of the electrolytics. They look to be almost the size of coke cans!
Madisound doesn't sell Clarity Cap TC series. I haven't found a need to use their biggest cap - 430uF 700V 84mm D x 145mm L ESR 1.0mOhm ;) ...not for a lack of trying. BTW, I use these in a tube amp. Not the Quickie.
Oh wait. You're talking about the other crazy guy.
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LOL Yah, when I say the CRRRaaaaazy guy, it really doesn't narrow it down much! Don't know if I am brave enough to use those 'cans' for my Q. But then again if Earic tries it I have kno choice(I'm inventin my own language, let's see f it catches on).
Let me deal with some small issues first and then maaaybe caps will follow.
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I was tempted to go up to 100uF caps but ended going for just 51uf instead just to save money.
Here is a 100uF ERSE cap (the big black one!) in my center channel crossover:
(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi576.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss207%2Fcorndog642%2Fx-voce%2520upgrades%2F61d2e0af.jpg&hash=81aedac2988b01a8eadc49dbda99a422af3abd87)
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for a second there, I thought it was Quickie overcome by capacitors ;D
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I have yet to try the Sonicaps. They are on my short list. Good value. That does look like a cap gang bang!
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Who are you calling tight n quick(ie)?
And BTW, I didn't have to use dope to get fucked up, i was born that way(the dope did make some enhancements though).
A little explanation for the new members... You see, Greg and I are, how shall we say, "brothers from different mothers". So if we seem to get bitchy at each other, its kind of genetic. We have shared the same locals yet at different points in time. Greg is a time traveler. He's from another world. We need to be patient with him...
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Shut up Earic
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The sonicaps (Gen 1) are a good, neutral cap. Ok, they lean a little on the brighter side of neutral but give very good resolution for the money.
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Hi guys,
I am looking at upgrading the output caps in the Quickie. I am worried about discharging the capacitors.
I have read that you should attack a high value resistor to both sides of the capacitor for a period of time to totally discharge so there is no concern for getting some voltage when upgrading.
I was wondering if the following resistor would be good to use to discharge the capacitors (I would also be using it eventually to upgrade my Crack output caps):
http://www.partsconnexion.com/resistors_amtrans_amra_five_watt.html
I would be buying the 10k resistor and attaching it using alligator clips and just leaving it there for awhile. After I guess that I should verify there is no charge with my multimeter right?
Any guidance would be great!
Thanks...Dave
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Hey Dave - dont worry about current/voltage from the Quickie. Thats kind of the point of the kit. You really cant kill yourself messing with it. Well, I should preface that, Greg will probably kill himself working on the Quickie because thats Greg.
Just yank the sucker and move on. I have the Mundorf Silver/oil in at that spot. Pricey but quite nice!
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The quickie is not a high voltage circuit. It's battery powered.
You're thinking of the power supply caps in circuits with well over 100 volts in them. In those cases bleeder resistors on the power supply caps is a good idea.
But the quickie is absolutely harmless.
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Perfect!
thanks Eric & Rob.
Should I be worried about the Crack output caps though??
I like the Silver and Oil Eric. I will be going with the Aluminum and Oil I think. I'm excited to see if the sound difference will be noticeable. I will be going with adamat suggestion and going with a VAL attenuator. I am looking at the Quickie manual and trying to determine which spot each wire will go with the new attenuator. Probably will have more questions.
Thanks again guys...
Dave
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Enjoy! - you can have a ton-o-fun modding this puppy. For not a ton of coin. I mean you may spend 2-3 times the asking price when you are done, but it will sound frikin fantastic.
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I just thought of a good shoot-out. A modded to the gills SET Quickie to a stock BeePre. Let the games begin!
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"Should I be worried about the Crack output caps though??"
As you work on tube circuits, at typical tube voltages, it is never a bad idea to make sure the caps are drained, before you stick your mitts in there...John
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All capacitors in Bottlehead kits come with mechanisms to drain the charge after power has been turned off.
The larger concerns are the power supply capacitors, but it's adequate to just measure them and wait till they are down below 10V before working on the circuit. Coupling caps are very small and have other parts in a given circuit that drain them down when the power is removed.
-PB
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Thanks everyone,
Off to order now! Modding is fun!!
Take care...Dave
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Well I got my Alum +oil caps yesterday and did the mod. It's sounds nice. Thanks everyone again!
Next the attenuator when it comes in. I will have to figure out what wires from the original pot go where on the new attenuator...this is fun stuff!
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An answer to your question about attenuator leads is in the FAQ thread in my corner. Since no one has commented on it, I don't know if the instructions were concise enough.
Please read them and let me know if you follow it.
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Thanks Grainger.
I checked out you faq. I will have to measure the resistance using your method.
I found this Site that seems to begood for info
Beavishifi.com/articles/Volume_Control
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Well I got my Alum +oil caps yesterday and did the mod. It's sounds nice. Thanks everyone again!
Next the attenuator when it comes in. I will have to figure out what wires from the original pot go where on the new attenuator...this is fun stuff!
Hey wullymc - curious as to exactly how the Alum/oil caps sound compared to the stock. Now that you have been listening to them for awhile. Are those the Mundorf Evo's? - thanks - Eric
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Hey Eric,
I have only 3 hours in on them so far so I they obviously aren't burned in. I don't have the best ears but what I can tell you is they are making the sound more intimate...like being there live. The album that I can tell a big difference in is the 200g King Crimson - Court reissue. The vocals are very smooth and clear. The drums are unbelievable. I am not a drummer but I believe it is a floor tom, you can really make out the hit and the resonnance. I never noticed this before.
It is the Mundorf Evo Alum & Oil. For $12 each I think it is a steal and would highly recommend it! It is my first cap upgrade so I don't have much to go on other then comparing it to the stock ones.
Cheers!
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Thanks Dave! I'm sure many will appreciate the review. We are all looking for that sort of thing (when you all of a sudden realize exactly what instrument you are hearing). Thats a cool thing. I remember noticing once that a certain chime sound was actually made of glass. Before the mod I didnt get that. Very cool!
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earwaxxer can I ask you where did you buy Tant resistors ?
Thank you
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sure - Parts Connexion - they are in Canada, and DIYaudiosupply in China:
http://www.diyhifisupply.com/node/152
http://www.partsconnexion.com/resistors_shinkoh_half_watt.html
cheers!
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thank you very much , why values are not reported in Ohm ? for example 4K3 what means ?
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thank you very much , why values are not reported in Ohm ? for example 4K3 what means ?
4R = 4 Ohms
4K = (4 x 1000) = 4000 Ohms
4K3 = 4300 ohms
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thank you !!
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the 150 mf elettrolyic capacitors in the Q with what better can be replaced ?
thank you
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Some of guys here have replaced those caps with either even higher quality electrolytic caps or have even used film caps, which are LARGE for this cap.
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Some of guys here have replaced those caps with either even higher quality electrolytic caps or have even used film caps, which are LARGE for this cap.
but is it possible to replace elettrolytic with film types ?
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Apparently yes. I was unsure of it myself, until I read a post about it. Guys, please chime in here and correct me if I'm wrong.
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so which are best electrolytic capacitors to replace those stock ?
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Here's an electrolytic comparison:
http://tech.juaneda.com/en/articles/electrolyticcapacitors.html
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you are really kind but i don't want go for techical issue just i asked which cap do you use insted those stock ?
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ok i seen there are many brands on partsconnection com but all of them have only 100 mf value , those in the Q are 150 mf , is it the same to put 100 mf or better 220 mf ?
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you are really kind but i don't want go for techical issue just i asked which cap do you use insted those stock ?
If you go back to page 2 of this thread you can see my rebuilt quickie using 51uF ERSE film caps.
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AHA! I knew somebody was using film. Got to thinking...the Q is all dc anyway, maybe that's why it can be done.
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I would like to put these ELNA RFS Silmic II Series but there are not 150 mf , which value could i put instead ?
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Its not critical, get as close as you can...John
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The Silmic is a good choice. 100uF at 6.3V is an adequate size.
The cathode bypass caps that come with the new Quickie are also audio grade caps, but from Nichicon.
-PB
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yep, the Quickie 1.1 has some upgraded stuff that we all have been playing with since the first one came out. Many of us have switched out the electrolytic for a film. The value is not critical until you get below 50uf or so. Much lower than that and you could have some bass rolloff.
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Thanks for that suggestion, Eric. So basically I would apply the tape to one end of the caps, thread the leads through a hole in the chassis, and then just stick the caps on their respective ends onto the chassis? I might put a black cable tie around the top of the caps, just to hold them together and prevent the caps from splaying outwards. Just to confirm, you think that would hold long-term (at least more than a year)?
And just to confirm, I assume this is the product you are referring to? http://www.amazon.com/3M-03615-Scotch-Mount-Molding-Tape/dp/B000BO9L00/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1370444261&sr=8-7&keywords=3m+super+strong+automotive+attachment+tape (http://www.amazon.com/3M-03615-Scotch-Mount-Molding-Tape/dp/B000BO9L00/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1370444261&sr=8-7&keywords=3m+super+strong+automotive+attachment+tape)
Thanks again for the suggestions. If this works, it will be a much simpler and cost effective solution than anything else I might have cooked up...
Best,
Adam
For anyone who is interested (probably nobody), I checked with 3M and their 06834 tape (http://www.amazon.com/3M-6384-Foam-Tape-Acrylic-1-2Mm/dp/B000P16VYS/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1377043090&sr=1-1&keywords=Automotive+Acrylic+Plus+Attachment+Tape) (they call it "Automotive Acrylic Plus Attachment Tape") is 30% stronger than their "Super Strength Molding Tape" (03609 or 03614) that I linked to in my earlier post. As an added benefit, it is very slightly thinner (not narrower).
Best regards,
Adam
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Adam,
Just as an idea for the caps, I once used a Sorbothane footer under the cap, and the leads held the cap onto the footer. It was a 3/4" size, and looked. Eric has poster sized photo of it mounted to the ceiling of his bedroom...
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That idea actually made me laugh out loud...
I'm hoping the new caps for the Crack power supply will have arrived today. If so, I'll try to post some cap porn...
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I have some extra Russian teflon caps that I was thinking of putting in the Quickie. 200V, 0.01uF. Will these work or no?
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I suppose you could use them to bypass the 2.2uf caps on the outputs...
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I suppose you could use them to bypass the 2.2uf caps on the outputs...
aren't the coupling caps the key ones to replace, though? what values do I need to look for? I would spend in the $30-40 range. Suggestions?
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The stock caps are 1000uf electrolytics. You can go down as far as 56uf or so with film caps. You could get a pair of Dayton Audio 68uf / 250V metalized polypropylene caps from Parts Express for about $35 plus shipping (for a pair). Audyn Cap 68uf / 400V caps are about the same price.
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Hey Sam ---
The coupling caps are the 2.2uf. Those are the ones you want to put your bucks into. You could try "bypassing" them with a small value like you suggested. I would just get a higher end 2.2uf and go from there....
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Hey Sam ---
The coupling caps are the 2.2uf. Those are the ones you want to put your bucks into. You could try "bypassing" them with a small value like you suggested. I would just get a higher end 2.2uf and go from there....
Gotcha. You like the Mundorf, no? Which one do you recommend?
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I have the Supreme Silver/oil. I like them. You could try a supreme to see what you think, or for minimal bucks try the new EVO aluminum/oil. I have them in my speaker crossover now. I like um! I dont think they will be as "high end" sounding as the silver/oil IMO. Its good to get a few examples and experiment. I have had those 2.2's in just about everywhere you can think of.
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I vote for these (http://www.ebay.com/itm/3kV-100uF-High-Voltage-Metallized-Polypropylene-Film-Capacitor-/151089426375?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item232da1afc7). Act quick before Eric beats you to the punch!
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which value is better to bypass coupling 2,2 mf caps?
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I believe Paul once said that you can use anything with a capacitance value from 0.5% to 10% of the cap you are bypassing, but the common practice is to go with 1%, at least as a starting point. So .022uf or .02uf. You want a voltage rating equal to or higher than the cap you are bypassing.
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I believe Paul once said that you can use anything with a capacitance value from 0.5% to 10% of the cap you are bypassing, but the common practice is to go with 1%, at least as a starting point. So .022uf or .02uf. You want a voltage rating equal to or higher than the cap you are bypassing.
ok thank you
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sometime the Q pick up some noise such for example mobile interference , is there a way to stop it ?
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sometime the Q pick up some noise such for example mobile interference , is there a way to stop it ?
Keep your phone away from it.
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it pick up even in long distance
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It might need to be shielded. Guys, what do you think of this? Maybe a part is acting as an antennae.
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The Q is SUPER micro-phonic. Thats her nature. You have to try different thinks, shielding, damping of the chassis, position away from sources, etc. That goes with tubes. Plug and play is what we get this transistors. We use tubes for other reasons.
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We have not experimented with extreme measures to kill unwanted RF interference, but here is an approach that might be effective:
1) put a small NPO ceramic cap, 27pF to 100pF, from tube grid (pin 3) to cathode (pin5). This shorts the RF energy so that it cannot appear between grid and cathode.
2) (optional) another small cap, around twice as large (56 to 220pF?) from pin5 to ground - this bypasses the cathode bypass cap to take that energy to ground.
Ceramic capacitors perform well at very high radio frequencies; and alternative is silver-mica caps. You want a physically small cap as well, so that it does not act as much of an antenna by itself.
Of course, replacing the chassis plate with a metal one, and fitting it into a metal box in place of the wood frame, and installing a tube shield, will shield all the circuitry, which may also help.
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Thanks Paul, now don't get me thinkin' too much. RF is all around us, NOW more than ever! No surprise that it can haunt our systems and brains. Might be time to sell those tin foil hats that I stored in the garage in case of alien attack.
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I will try Paul advice on putting ceramic caps, but will this affect the sound ?
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I doubt it, since the cap is of a value that is not in the range of hearing. and if I got it right, it goes to ground.
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why this was not included in the original stock project?
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Maybe you can only give so much for the money. I do upgrades on some Carver circuits, and while I could do more for a given circuit, I simply would have to charge more. Now, having said that, I do see your point. RFI is eveeeryahere!. When I used to work in central offices for the phone comp[nay, you could feeel the singing of the equipment . I was not totally comfortable in microwave sites. But as bad as it is, some parts of the country are definately worse than others, just like dirty power.
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why this was not included in the original stock project?
Presumably because lots of people don't need it, and it wouldn't make sense to add a part and increase the cost of the kit for everyone, to address a problem only experienced by a few.
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Presumably because lots of people don't need it, and it wouldn't make sense to add a part and increase the cost of the kit for everyone, to address a problem only experienced by a few.
+1 on that thought.
One of the things you win building kits in general and Bottlehead in particular is the abilty to do simple mods to make a unit fit your particular needs. I have never had an rf issue with my Quickie. I have modded mine to a headphone amp, tried the plate chokes, tried the PJCCS and prefer it to chokes. None of this fussing about would be so painless with an off-the-shelf unit.
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I will try Paul advice on putting ceramic caps, but will this affect the sound ?
I have chosen values that will not affect audio frequencies. Worst case is a corner at 64kHz.
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why this was not included in the original stock project?
Normally this is not a problem. In classic circuits, such an RFI control cap is only occasionally used (Marantz for instance) and even then, only for very high-gain phono preamp circuits, not for preamps and amps. I think this is the first time I've posted this idea, possibly the second time, in 15+ years of active posting.
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While digging through my box of project parts I found a pair of 3.3uF 250V OIMP V-Caps. I had them in an old Foreplay 2 I have since dismantled. I wasn't too impressed with them in that circuit but its been a while and I thought I'd give them a second listen in my Quickie.
I used the Quickie with my Sex amp and AKG702's last night and it sounded pretty good. Very smooth and detailed. Bass seemed a bit softer but that could just be the AKG's. I didn't get to listen for very long so I'll work on that more this weekend.
(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi576.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss207%2Fcorndog642%2FBottlehead%2520Quickie%2FIMG_7914_zps8706e15d.jpg&hash=f34f2675170ea7dee7872c81b46ab47f96aa2855)
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I am going to buy a quickie, It will become my headphone amp. I will buy phones to use on the quickie, what phone do you recommend? I am buying the speco 7010 autoformer are these the choice ones for the job.Your quickie looks dangerous, just kidding, but I will try to follow your twisted thinking and spend most of the money on expensive caps. I too, have a collections that will likely be used up. Anyhow give me your thoughts as to how to best pull this off. Jann O.
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I really like the Beyerdynamic DT-880 250 Ohm. They have a really smooth, expansive sound and are very comfortable. They excel with high def recordings. I think they even sound a bit better than the AKG 702's.
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Rob, now you've done it-NOW YOU'VE DONE IT! Look at those cans. They don't want to be in the same neighborhood as that average pot. Only GoldPoint will do.
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FWIW, I don't think it makes any sense to spend a fortune on caps for a Quickie to use as a headphone amplifier. You would be far better served by just building a Crack in the first place, especially if you will be using high impedance Beyers.
Also, it's none of my business, but I didn't like the Beyer DT880s at all. I found them to have a bright, brittle sound. My recommendation would be the Sennheiser HD600s. If you want something cheaper, look for a used pair of Sennheiser HD580s or AKG 240Ms.
Best regards,
Adam
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I didn't like the Beyer DT880s at all. I found them to have a bright, brittle sound.
Not to start a pissing contest but I'm wondering what you listened to them with because I didn't get that at all. I heard them powered by the JDS Labs O2+ODAC with high rez files from Mapleshade records. The 880's sounded crystal clear with incredibly palpable dynamics.
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My (partial) equipment list and summary reviews can be found here (https://www.head-fi.org/u/163295/amcananey), in my Head-Fi profile. I says partial because it turns out there is a character limit to Head-Fi profiles. Once I hit that, I stopped updating my profile. The moderators said no one had ever hit the character limit before... ;D
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Pretty sure I've posted this before, but to re-iterate: the Speco T7010 underwent a drastic re-design a few years ago; I have no idea why they kept the same model number since it's different in every possible way. Nevertheless, here are the connections. I would go for high impedance, high sensitivity headphones and the new transformer, given a choice. The Quickie is not powerful, it's just fun, cheap, and sounds good. I'd look for 95dB/mW or greater.
FWIW, high impedance works well with Crack in case one is thinking of an eventual change. Crack does NOT need highly sensitive phones!
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And FWIW worth also.. EVERY SINGLE word, comma, space and period that was in Adam's post was completely what I was going to say.. No kidding...IMHO, Adam is totally spot on... Beyers were bright and tinny to me also... and of course.. 4K's experience is correct also with the Beyers.. When it comes to what we hear and like?? . we are ALL correct.. And yeah, Crack is the word, and the word is goood... :)
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Rob, now you've done it-NOW YOU'VE DONE IT! Look at those cans. They don't want to be in the same neighborhood as that average pot. Only GoldPoint will do.
Hmmm... This one was built just for fun. But you make a compelling argument. ???
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Just to clarify, my comment was limited to the DT880s, not Beyers in general. I own a pair of Beyer DT990s that I quite like, but they aren't totally neutral, which is why I didn't recommend them above. But if you know what you're getting, they are a ton of fun and highly recommended.
Best regards,
Adam
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Just to clarify, my comment was limited to the DT880s, not Beyers in general. I own a pair of Beyer DT990s that I quite like, but they aren't totally neutral, which is why I didn't recommend them above. But if you know what you're getting, they are a ton of fun and highly recommended.
Best regards,
Adam
Were they the 250 Ohm versions? I think I heard that each version sounded different.
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Rob,
No doubt, I like what you've done here. You could call it a sleeper or get 'er done model. The cool thing is, I'm sure that it sounds fabulous. I say this with confidence, since the modifications that I came up with were always audible, and almost all were positive. I was introduced to the Q as a gift. To be honest, I would not have chosen it myself. Now, I am an avid follower.
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Yes, to be clear also, I was talking about the DT880s exclusively as well....
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I used my quickie to power dt-880s ( 250ohm) while I was building my crack. For my tastes the quickie was not quite powerfull enough. Fine, but was pretty low volume for my tastes.
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does it really worth to change the stock pot with an Alps 100K , does it emprove sound?
thank you
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The alps pot fixed my channel inbalance and improved the sound quality for me. Defenately recommend.
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Thank you I will try
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My recommendation would be the Sennheiser HD600s. If you want something cheaper, look for a used pair of Sennheiser HD580s or AKG 240Ms.
I use AKG 240M with a Speco'ed Quickie.
I think it sounds quite nice BUT - do a search on wiring the Specos for the 600 ohm AKG 240M. Changing the wiring per PJ recommendations gave me just a jot more gain. While the AKGs go loud enough for me they might not please a headbanger. Not the most sensitive 'phones. Qucikie needs the choke mod or PJCCS for acceptable gain.
The specos I have, the older orignal style, do result in a bass roll off below circa 50 hz and pretty much NO bass below 40 hz. Sounds great with most jazz and pre-1820s classical but takes some of the guts out of big orchestra Mahler or Saint-Sa
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what about blue tack for dumping tubes? no one tried that?
and another question , i read it's possible to replace electrolitic capacitor with film capacitor in the Q , which capacitor is it ?
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which resistor is better to replace with tantallium ? the 1K close to the 150 uf capacitor or the ones 475K close to the coupling capacitors ?
thanx
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which resistor is better to replace with tantallium ? the 1K close to the 150 uf capacitor or the ones 475K close to the coupling capacitors
Neither. The 4K plate loads would be well substituted by Tantalum resistors, or the 4K resistors on the PJCCS.
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so if i understand right , is good to change only the 4k resistor? where is this 4K resistor?
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so if i understand right , is good to change only the 4k resistor? where is this 4K resistor?
Consult the manual.
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I am just in a mess now !! which manual ? Quickie manual or PJCCS ? where is this 4K resistor?
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I am just in a mess now !! which manual ? Quickie manual or PJCCS ? where is this 4K resistor?
The 4K resistor is in both. In the PJCCS manual, it is removed, and replaced with a constant current source that also uses a 4K resistor.
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really strange i don't remind a 4K resistor in the quickie anyway I will check it out
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so i put 27 pf from pin3 to 5 and 56 pf from pin 5 to ground as suggested by Paul but noise from mobile is still here
but i found basses are more punchy and dynamic , I don't know it's a placebo effect but it seems so
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after some hour of listening i can confirm sound has improved in all parameters, i don't know why but it's another sound i hear, everithing is more alive , sounds i never heard before in cds now are very audibles . May be Paul has an explanation for this
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... May be Paul has an explanation for this
No clue!
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I am new to this forum, i have had my Quickie 1.1 for just under a year now and have been a very happy camper. I recently read this thread from start to finish and have damped the tubes, as was suggested, with great results. I am now in the process of ordering new caps and an Alps pot but would also like to upgrade the resistors to tantalum and understand that it really is only necesarry to change the 4k resistor on the PJCCS. I am ordering from parts connexion and they only have a 3k9 shinkoh. Will this do the job or does it need to be exactly 4k?
I live outside the USA and really do not want to purchase at separate stores as it increase shipping cost by a lot.
thanks a lot for this very informative and useful thread!!
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Where are you located? http://www.hificollective.co.uk/componentshome.html (http://www.hificollective.co.uk/componentshome.html) may be a better option if you are in the UK. Also its worth emailing parts connexion about shipping as they will usually stick the parts in an envelope for a few dollars instead of charging you the default shipping price the website comes up with.
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Thanks for the response, I live in Chile South America, ordering from the USA is quite easy as i have a shipping address in Miami, but i can give the UK a try - this is not and expensive purchase as far as audio go - so if something happen the loss would not be to great. Will check the site mentioned.
Any knowledge on the resistor value, can I use the 3k9 instead of the 4k
Thanks once again
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The resistor value is not very critical - 3.9K is fine.
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The 470 Ohm resistor in the PJCCS is the one to upgrade.
The 4K resistor used as a plate load in the stock kit would be an upgrade candidate, but it does not serve the same function in the PJCCS.
-PB
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Thanks for the responses, As i have the PJCCS i will only replace the two 470 ohm resistor with tantalum, change the coupling caps to obligatto premium gold film and upgrade the pot with a TKD 2CP - 601. Anything else worth doing?
Thanks in advance
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Bump for resurrection. Plan on upgrading and reviving my original quickie that already has pjccs and russian caps. Any chance the pictures can be reloaded?
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Bump for resurrection.
+1,
I was on this forum when Earwaxxer was an active member, this thread is a worthwhile contribution
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Can anyone share their listening impressions from changing the 470k resistor on the PJCCS to tantalum?
Dave
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Can anyone share their listening impressions from changing the 470k resistor on the PJCCS to tantalum?
There is no 470K resistor on the PJCCS.
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Oops 470 ohm.
Dave
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It would cost you about $12 to order a pair, then you could share your impressions with us.
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Are these ok for the q?
http://shop.diyhifisupply.com/product/audionote-tantalum-resistors-0-5w-10-2m-ohm/
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Chinese New Year will be over in about 2 weeks. You could order from Parts Connexion and have them far sooner.
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Good to know. Hadn't thought of that. Are the specs ok on those resistors?
Dave
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If you're replacing the 470 ohm resistor, it needs to be at least 1/250W and the leads should fit through the holes on the PC board if possible.
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LOL 1/250w. I think that will work 8) Interestingly parts connexion has non-magnetic Audio Note tantalum resistors, any pros or cons to that? Never heard of a non-magnetic resistor before.
https://www.partsconnexion.com/ANRNMTR-81598.html
Dave