Bottlehead Forum
Other Gear => Speakers => Topic started by: M42 on June 19, 2014, 05:33:02 AM
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Hi All,
I have received my Frugel Horn 3 flatpacks and Alpair 7en speakers from Planet 10. I will be driving them with my Stereomour and Reduction phono amp. The kit is beautifully executed...all panels being cnc machined. I'm eager to get these together and audition them. I have decided to use the less efficient Alpairs, but from all accounts it's a superior driver to the Fostex units. I'm presently searching for wood veneer for the build. Not having any experience in veneering can anyone tell me whether the panels should be veneered first, then assembled, or once the cabinets are compete? I will post some additional photos as I make progress.
Jeff
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Some veneering discussion here
http://bottlehead.com/smf/index.php/topic,6036.msg62173.html#msg62173
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I am not an expert by any means, but I used to watch a great woodworking show on PBS. The guy always veneered first and then used a router to clean up the edges.
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Either way works, it really just depends on where you want the veneer edge to be. If you veneer first they will be on the edge of each piece. If you veneer after the cabinet is assembled the edges will be on the cabinet edges.
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I'll be interested in hearing your feedback. I tried these drivers with my Paramours in an OB. Just didn't work for me. The 2A3 Paramours sounded strangled, the 45 Paramour 2's were worse. I also tried a Golden Tube Audio Se40, (PSE 6L6GC's rated at 40 watts), still no brass ring.
Cheers,
Geary
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they should be veneered already
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Yes...Baltic birch, but I thought I'd try something a little more exotic and to finish the exposed ply edges.
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Can I ask how much the kit runs? I've been interested in an affordable DIY speaker build and have heard good things about the frugal horns. On the other hand I play a lot of rock/metal/electronic music and feel like these might not have the punch required for those genres.
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The kit, enabled Alpair drivers, shipping and taxes came to $750.00 USD. Shipping amounted to $75.00. The flatpacks are $290.00 and the drivers $290.00. I paid ten percent less for the drivers as I ordered them at the same time as the flatpacks.
I have never heard these speakers, but have purchased them after extensive research on the web, (Planet 10's site and diyAudio.com, builder reviews etc.). I listen to most types of music with the exception of country. From what I have read the Alpair driver will produce "substantially" more bass than the Fostex 126(en) driver, however at the cost of some efficiency. The Fostex driver has also been described as more "shouty??" than the Alpair driver. Further, the Alpairs don't seem to be as demanding as far as being corner loaded.
I claim no golden ear, but I will post my impressions of the speakers once I have allowed for a couple of hundred hours for break-in time.
Jeff
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I have put together several cabinets, Bottlehead bases, using veneer. Unless you have a fancy vacuum press, veneer is very difficult to apply using dedicated veneer glue. On larger pieces, the only success that I had was with the use of contact glue. Of course, one has to be careful....you don't get a second chance with contact glue. If the pieces are small, veneer glue is OK as long as you can clamp with much pressure.
If your veneer is paper backed [as compared to raw], contact glue is a must in my experience.
I would build the cabinet and veneer after. You trim the edges with a small veneer saw. This saw is a must and is made just for that. Don't use a box knife or other sharp blade....you risk damaging the veneer as you trim the edges
Apply contact glue evenly and not too thick otherwise you will get bumps in your veneer
I'm not an expert in veneer cabinet making, but this has been my experience after many hits and misses. PM me if you need any other information
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How are you getting on with your speaker build?
Very tempted to scratch build a pair of Frugel Horn 3's myself at the moment in anticipation for the arrival of my sex kit. Just starting to look into it more seriously now.
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Any updates on this?
I've been looking for a new pair of speakers to pair with my Stereomour and have been looking into the FH3 flat packs. Wondering if you have had time to hear your horns with the Stereomour? I'm hoping they have enough power and are able to produce a solid bass response.
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I have been delayed in completing my speakers for some time. They are now assembled and running with my Stereomour. However, I only have about 130 hours of run in time on them to date and have yet to install the acoustic batting in the front section of the horn...the sides are clamped temporarily. I was terribly disappointed with them the first time I heard them, despite being aware that they require a break in period of some two to three hundred hours or more! That said they now sound altogether different. I think with more time on them I'm going to be very happy with them. Bass and imaging are vastly improved. From what I understand the stuffing in the front of the horn is to attenuate the amount of based being produced. At this point I wouldn't characterize the bass as being anywhere near excessive, but the low end seems to be developing nicely. Once I have another hundred hours or so on them, I'll add the stuffing to the front of the horn to see what difference it makes. My speakers are in the corners of a very small room...9 x 10 feet.
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Keep us updated :) I'm interested in the results of this as well.
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M42. Give us an update on the Frugel Horn mk3's after break in. I'm building a pair now
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M42. Give us an update on the Frugel Horn mk3's after break in. I'm building a pair now
Any progress pics?
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Hi, apologies for the late reply, I've been preoccupied with a job search as of late. I now have about 250 - 300 hours on the speakers. They are much improved from when I first heard them...to be quite frank, I was appalled when I first auditioned them! I have yet to install the acoustic baffling material in the lower section of the horn and as the photo shows the sides are temporarily clamped in place. From what I understand (which is little) the material is used to attenuate (reduce?) bass from the speakers. I have them set up in the corners of a very small room 91/2' x 10'. Even without the baffling material there is a "balanced...acceptable" amount of bass, but certainly nothing excessive. I think they hold promise, but at the moment my 40 year old JBL Decade 36's and NST Super Zero 2.1's more than give the Frugel Horns a run for the money! To be fair, the Frugel Horns are only some 87 db efficient, I run them form my Stereomour, Reduction and a Thorens TD 160 with a Grace F9E cart. The cart's output is only 3.5mv, but I refuse to part with it. More power would certainly help, but with a worthless Canadian dollar the Eros and Kaiju will just have to wait. I will post another update once I'm motivated to get back to the project!
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I picked up an unopened FH3 flat pack with the Alpair drivers from someone who just never built them. I was originally considering the Fostex drivers to pair better with my Stereomour II, but couldn't resist the deal.
I am driving them with a 20WPC pentode amp and I like them so far. Placed near the corners of our relatively small living room the bass is surprising: Not overly abundant or super low, but what is there is well rendered.
As with all single drivers there are tradeoffs and limitations.
It is my understanding that a 300B amp is kind of the minimum to drive the Alpairs. My S II is wired for 4 Ohms, maybe someday I'll install the impedance switch and give 'em a try.
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That's an interesting wrap you have on there.
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I have completed my Frugelhorns. I installed the entire 40 grams of acoustic stuffing in the front of each horn and glued the side panels up. The sound is much improved of course with the sealed cabinets. The speakers are currently set up in a near-field listening configuration due to the small room size. I pulled the speakers out of the corners (the Alpairs don't seem to rely on corner loading as much as the Fostex drivers do). I am much happier with them now...I think they sound quite good. I will continue to experiment with their positioning for optimal performance. In time I'll try removing some of the acoustic stuffing in an effort to fine tune the bass.
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The more time I spend listening to these,the more I like them! Time to make some maple isolation plinths and add some spikes.
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Glad you are enjoying the FH3s, I find with the Alpair's they can rock-out way better than my Fostex OBs.
I ended up putting 18" long stabilizers on the front and using 3 of PE's small diameter spikes on each speaker, someone would really have to want to tip one over now.
I also pulled them out from the back wall a little more and will try losing some of the stuffing to see what that does for filling in the speaker's bottom octaves that were lightened with the move. (Maybe a BH Fix is in order!)
I have to amend my earlier post about power requirements. My old Scott is in need of some TLC so I brought my SEX home from work and hooked it up to the FH3s. Granted our condo is small, but unless I planed on throwing a house party, I could live with the set-up.
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I'm very happy with the Alpairs and as relatively inefficient as they are I can drive them to quite satisfying levels with my Stereomour! I'm planning on making some hard maple plinths about 10" x 20" and then putting spikes either under the speakers, or under the plinths. I'll experiment with both to see if it makes any difference. I suspect the only real benefit will be raising the speakers a couple of inches or so. The drivers will be a little more in line with my listening chair. Right now I have some small wedges at the front of the speakers...this seems to improve things somewhat.
I'm going to listen to the speakers a while longer before I remove any of the acoustic stuffing...I have given thought to the Fix as well....any excuse to build something! I have a couple of 100 watt plate amps I'd like to put to use, I've recently been reading about tapped horn design subwoofers. That might be another project, but at this point I'm not convinced I need one.
I will upgrade the tubes in the Stereomour to JJ 2A3-40's and install the Integration in my Reduction. The extra few db of gain can't hurt! From what I've read, those who have the JJ's like them.
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I have been using JJ's for a couple of years now, I drive 92 db speakers nearfield with plenty of volume. I think they sound great and have been problem free. If I was going to buy new tubes I would consider EML's now.
I am getting ready to build a Kaiju though . . .