Bottlehead Forum
Bottlehead Finished Products => Legacy Products => Bottlehead DAC => Topic started by: xcortes on March 14, 2015, 05:57:40 PM
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Cmon guys. All of you that have received it. We know you're busy listening but let us know how do your new dacs sound ðŸ™
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"I'll be your huckleberry"
I haven't had the chance to listen very much, but it didn't take long to tell a difference.
I stream iTunes wirelessly from my PC to a Squeezebox Classic that is twice as old as I have been waiting on the BH-DAC. Tops-link connected to the BH-DAC, mil-spec coaxial cables to BeePre > Stereomour > modified Heresy's and line out to Sexy speaker subs.
I knew my first test would be Pandora (free). Its music has always sounded flat and lifeless, even compared to other internet radio. Now the sound stage has depth, clarity and the music sounds real. Bass seams to have more punch and the highs have more presence and detail. Overall, a very noticeable improvement.
Can't compare it to vinyl or other DAC because I don't have any. The BH-DAC has done what I hoped it would do and more. Now I have to find more time to listen.
Robert
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There are a couple more early impressions here:
http://bottlehead.com/smf/index.php?topic=6908.msg73476#msg73476 (http://bottlehead.com/smf/index.php?topic=6908.msg73476#msg73476)
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thanks Xavier for starting this thread.
Mine came today. I'm in the middle of the 1st CD, Jackson Browne, "Standing In The Breach"
I'm using the secondary system, it was easier: Sony XE270 -> via TOS-Link:BH DAC -> SEX -> Orca's
Yes - a big difference. Granted the XE270 was a low cost player, but I always thought it sounded very good.
The BH-DAC is cool, very well done; a mama-jama box.
I understand the design chops needed to code this type of audio conversion. Well done -- John!
The time frame to execute this project, factoring in the final result, was well worth it. It's a breath of fresh air.
I'm glad commander check-off was not in the loop, but the ear-czar.
Craig
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I am trying to get my thoughts together, to do a review on the DAC, it's not as easy as you would think. I'm not a professional reviewer and not real good with the audiophile terms.
But people keep asking what it sounds like.
It doesn't really sound like anything at all, if that makes any sense.
But when you stop and think about it, it’s a digital to analog converter, it's not supposed to have a sound of its own. It does a very good job on the analog part, and this is where it shines.
It sounds natural, open and free of the fatiguing artifacts that we're so used to in digital audio and have learned to live with.
Female voices are less edgy, complex Orchestral pieces hang together and don’t get all congested. And you can relax and listen without the feeling that something is going to hurt you, if you know what I mean.
Well, I just wanted to get something out there for the folks waiting.
Most listening so far has been CD rips at 44K with a few higher res thrown in. I should point out I will be adding to my higher res collection.
My setup is, Vortexbox music server. Amps so far, SR-45 and my DIY 300B, normally aspirated (non Parafeed). Speakers are the Great Horned Heil’s, by the Hornshopp.
This really is what we have been looking for…John
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Here's a kind of partial review, since I'm presently using the DAC in my den.
Quick note on installation (though I know there's another thread more on point): With the Mac Mini, it was plug and play, and has been rock solid ever since.
I'm presently running from a Mac Mini, using Amarra, through a SEX Amp (v1.0 w/ C4S and Iron Upgrade), into my homemade single-driver TQWT's. I'd have to echo 2wo's comment that "it doesn't sound like anything." Seems transparent and effortless to me.
I'll post more when I've moved the Mini and DAC upstairs to the main system. I will miss having it in the den, though. I'll have to save my pennies for another, I suppose.
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I have been burning the new cable n dac in for a few days. Im comparing it to my squeezebox modded analog out. Im using a mac mini with amarra and tidal. Im playing the same song in tidal (lossless) through the mac n dac then switching the input on my efp3 to the squeezebox. The squeezebox has a very analog sound that i love. The dac has a more resolved and deeper bass sound. It reminds me of when you bought a better turntable as a kid. Everything is just clearer and more presence better deeper bass. Theres really no comparison. Once my spdif cable gets here i can compare the sb3 modded digital out to the mac mini. Thanks to bh n mq i have an amazing sounding stereo hifi system:-)
Using ridiculously good sr45's into abbys with fostex esr's and a pair of blumenstein subs.
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My dac has been powered up about 30 hours. Setup was easy on a mac.
Sound is awesome! Big step up from my emu 404 usb. I've been listening mostly to DSD converted to
352.8khz pcm by Amarra. Chain is mac->dac(usb)->beePre->paramount 2a3 w/magnaquest iron->LaScalas.
I was thinking about adding vinyl to my setup as I was tiring of it, but I think I'm good now, as long as I can
find the digital source material. I have this theory that artists put out the high dynamic range material on vinyl and
the compressed stuff on digital. But, there is some good digital out there, I think.
Piano, vocals, guitar - all really good. Very happy with the dac.
-Dave
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Using this DAC with a player like Amarra is completely automatic. You queue up songs of various
formats and resolution and let it go. No manual intervention.
44.1 khz rips (Leonard Cohen "Songs on the Road" and "Jazz at the Pawnshop") are brilliant.
-Dave
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Received a nice email from a Bottlehead DAC owner, that I am quoting with his permission -
"Listening toslink with awe. You have hit a home run. Every bit as good as my boutique DAC that cost 4 times as much."
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Yep Dan, you quoted me correctly. I am very impressed with the breadth of the sound stage and the sense of realism when listening to known high quality CDs. I have yet to listen to all source inputs and all sample rates but this DAC is very very good.
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Received unit today and was able to spend a couple hours listening. Used with Windows 8.1 Business software and install was a snap. I quickly verified it was playing back the higher sample rates and then began serious listening. I was expecting to like it, but knew in advance it couldn't sound better than my $4K DAC. Well, I was wrong... this new DAC is much clearer. I played the 4 or 5 test passages we all seem to have and immediately was able to hear more of the backgound chatter, cymbals weren't tizzy, great air around some voices, etc. After about an hour of testing, I began to just relax and enjoy the music, even playing pieces that I had not heard before. Speaking completely subjectively, the overall sound reminded me of what I think of as the modern sound I hear from some of the better transistor amps...huge sound stage, extremely clean. Of course there's the chance that in a week I'll pine for the honey sound of the other DAC, but right now I feel as if this is my new reference.
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Another nice comment from an old Bottlehead/new DAC user:
http://bottlehead.com/smf/index.php?topic=7692.msg74388#msg74388 (http://bottlehead.com/smf/index.php?topic=7692.msg74388#msg74388)
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If you didn't read the title above, please do.
As a warm up I played Clear by Spirit. I have been listening to this album since 1969 when it came out. I hear detail like that of a MC cartridge without any of the edginess that the MC cartridges I can afford have. This CD has all the nuances I remember from the LP. On the title track, Clear, the muted trumpets sound like Miles Davis on Kind Of Blue, this is a better recording than I remember. The bass strings together with the bassoons are distinct. Background details are there, clear and in the proper perspective.
The mid bass is more present than I have heard in my system before. It is not accentuated but filled in from what I am used to. I wasn’t aware that there was a lack of mid bass till I heard the BH DAC. Also, the transient response is dramatically improved. As others have already said, the improved decay is noticeable.
Next up was The Wailin’ Jennys, 40 Days, again I’m struck with the clarity. The sound is just gorgeous. On Arlington the violin has no edginess, the sound is completely relaxed. The soundstage is wider with less curving at the edges.
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Here's another impression -
http://bottlehead.com/smf/index.php?topic=7830.0 (http://bottlehead.com/smf/index.php?topic=7830.0)
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The DAC gets better wih time. Even with streaming Pandora to it, the music takes on a new dimension. I am very impressed with it, my old DAC doesn't hold a candle to the BH DAC. I hear nuances in the music I didn't hear before, and it is simply a pleasure to listen to
Thanks again
Debra
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I meant to post this under "Users Opinions" and I want to follow up so here it is:
"My DAC arrived last Friday . . . while I was away :'( Home on Monday and I hooked it up and ran a burn in disc for 24 hours. Sat down on Tuesday night to take a quick listen. Put on Sarah Jarosz "Build Me Up From Bones" and ended up listening to the whole album. I had tears in my eyes and I've heard this album many times.
Gear is a McCormack SST-1 transport, BH DAC, Bent AVC-1, D-Sonic M3-1500M mono blocs, GoldenEar Triton One speaks. I'd been using an SMc (McCormack) Ultra DAC which at this point in time was my reference having beat out an Audio Note Kit 2.1 that had been greatly enhanced and built by Digital Pete. Both these DACs are in the mid 2k range so having the BH DAC soundly (no pun intended) trounce the Ultra DAC was a very satisfying experience. After my brief listen what came to mind is and openness, smoothness, and rich detail that I had never heard. Softened sibilance but no lack of high frequency involvement. The sound stage seems slightly compressed but may be more real. More listening will tell.
Thank you, thank you, Bottleheads all for a truly remarkable DAC. I can't wait to do some more listening."
It's been about a week and the sound stage that I heard as slightly compressed has opened up nicely. Width, height, and depth are extremely good, as good as I've heard. As debk said, "DAC gets better with time".
I have a PS Audio PWT memory player arriving today and I'm curios to hear if it makes an improvement because from what I've read this DAC is supposed to minimize jitter thus making differences in transports minimal.
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The more i listen, the more i realize how good this dac is.
I am listening only to 44.1 from my denon 2930 player that was upgraded by david schulte at the upgrade company to his signature mod.
This dac brings me closer to what i have been searching for (higher resolution, detail without harshness) than anything i have heard before. Micro and macro dynamics are stunning from a black background. Billy Joels japanese 20 bit pressing of "an innocent man" is breathless (with air to die for).
I am not sure what differences i would notice with battery power, but am interested in hearing whether it, or other upgrades, are being contemplated.
Great accomplishment Mr. Swenson, Doc, and all involved.
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I fired mine up yesterday. Yeah, it's been sitting here over a month now. Not really set up for it.
I was playing CD's through a DVD player which was connected to a TV via HDMI and then TV to DAC via TOS. Even so the difference was easy to hear. All the detail w/o the "edge", very nice.
I ordered up the smallest transport I could find, the "Nano-Compo CD-1" in black to match the DAC. This is in my bedroom and space is tight.
I got the TV and the player going started the CD playing and powered up the DAC. Nothing. The display showed a bunch of crap so I pulled the power jack out and plugged it back in. Sound issued forth and the display showed "48"
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7634/17270399791_1884a3e76a_o.jpg)
It worked, but it is not ideal. One should not have to reach around the back and be unplugging and plugging to re-boot all the time. I had to do it twice. Please consider a power switch on "rev 2"
When I get the new transport in and all the wiring done I'll have more to say. So good so far. I agree, it makes CD's sound more like vinyl, just what I was hoping for. Looking forward to seeing just how good my CD collection sounds!
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The ad copy for the Nanocompo says it only outputs 44.1, 88.2 and 96. I suggest setting the transport to send 44.1 to the DAC and letting it do all of the upsampling.
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My DAC arrived on friday so i spent the weekend listening through my speaker system and headphone setup and came to the conclusion that it is simply stunning. Has far exceeded my expectations, and without a doubt it has been worth waiting for.
To date my main DAC has been a CiAudio VDA2 which has a fairly unique design using a discrete transistor output stage and any reviews i have read always praised it for being refined and analog sounding. The Bottlehead DAC immediately stomped all over it, everything about it is improved, lovely tight and dynamic low end, sweet detailed high end, nothing ever sounds harsh or sibilant or badly recorded. Even low quality MP3 files sound good. The more i have listened the one thing that has impressed me the most is its ability to separate different sounds into different layers. It’s like listening to multiple sound sources at once as nothing ever seems to get in the way of each other, truly remarkable imaging and separation.
I know it’s a bit cliché to say i am hearing things i have never heard before in songs i know well, but it really is a case of listening to things differently as there is so much more depth and detail to be found. I just love it, thanks Bottlehead!
P.S. I found a 3 meter USB cable caused some stutters and artifacts during playback, 1 meter cable is working perfectly. Both were Belkin Pro USB2 cables.
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I was listening to MJQ on MOFI CDs yesterday. I have the Carnegie Hall and Music Inn live recordings. The soundstage has definitely taken a step back, about a foot or two. The double bass has a more "together" sound. I used to hear it only when it was playing in the upper and lowest registers. It is now there up and down the scale. I didn't get too far into the Carnegie Hall CD before Bear, the new puppy decided I had to leave. She usually sleeps through most music.
This is with the same Harmonic Tech SPDIF cable I have used for 12 years with a gold plated Radio Shack RCA to BNC adapter on the end. I'll consider a dedicated RCA to BNC cable now.
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After 2 weeks of listening to the BH DAC I feel comfortable writing how I hear the BH DAC.
SYSTEM
My system is Horning Alkibiades speakers, a Lowther based hybrid with modified Lowther units, a modified tweeter and two 12" Beyma woofers. In my small system I have Orca Classic with matching sub. I actually prefered the Orcas in a near field setup over the Alkibiades for a short while as the Orcas have a nice woody tone but now the Alkibiades are back in my main rig. Amps are the 6c33c based Almarro 318B with various NOS tubes, a Crayon CFA-1.2 mosfet DC coupled amp and a TBI millennia chip amp driven by a 12 volt scooter battery. In addition I have a Bottlehead Parabee 300B but tubes have worn out and it’s inactive at the moment.
Front end is digital, a small Cubox-i unix box with an linear PS running Volumio, a Linux system stripped of all non audio related stuff. For the BH DAC I had to bring in my IBM laptop running Daphile - again a linux stripped of the non audio stuff. Other DAC's on the shelve are Hegel HD2, a NOS Audio Note Dac 1.1 kit and my new DAC an Aqua Hifi La Voce, a modern filterless NOS dac.
SETUP
My Cubox/Volumio could not detect the BH DAC and after a few restarts I used the Hegel as a USB to BNC converter. As the La Voce also have a BNC I could switch between the two dac with a few cable swaps. After a week I brought in the IBM/Daphile which could detect the BH DAC from USB and I used the Cubox/Volumio for the La Voce. This let me A/B the units from the source selector on the amps. Impressions did not change through the various digital sources.
IMPRESSION
The first impression made me realize that the Hegel and the Audio Note was out. The BH DAC is in a different league. The only true competitor on my shelve is the La Voce.
The difference between the two DACs are minor so the following is written to emphasize the differences rather than giving an objective description.
Comparing the two DACs the La Voce is more (micro)dynamic, more spacious, more sudden, more vibrant, but more slim on tones where the BH DAC have more round transients, play bigger tones, are more grounded and heavy. The La Voce has a more live character where the BH DAC is more studio like. The BH DAC is more "the musicians are here" where the La Voce is more "the musicians are there". The BH DAC have a more relaxed presentation than the La Voce. Quality wise I can't say which is better as they are quite near so we're down to subjective preferences and system synergy rather than different leagues.
MY OWN PREFERENCE
On my TBI I prefer the BH DAC as the TBI have that clinical chip sound and the BH DAC eased it up a bit. On my Almarro and Crayon I prefer the La Voce as I like that slightly more raw, direct, dramatic presentation. Tommy Horning did a fine job taming the "Lowther shout" in my Alkibiades but my guess is that on a standard Lowther I would prefer the BH DAC on all amps.
Edit - please read the rules.
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My Cubox/Volumio could not detect the BH DAC and after a few restarts I used the Hegel as a USB to BNC converter.
I am using a Cubox with Volumio without any problems. Just restart Volumio when everything is connected and it should be fine.
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Took the DAC out of the box and hooked it up by toslink to my unmodified Squeezebox Touch as source. The DAC's RCA outs went into my home theater setup (Marantz one piece) into pair of Magnepans (MG12 Q/R) + Outlaw 12"sub (LFM1 EX). Really cheap cables. Not the most revealing system I have, but I couldn't wait to get going! I only listened to 16/44.1 material streamed from my music server through the Touch, but all sorts of music (including Miles Davis-Kind of Blue, Jewel- Spirit, Dream Theater-Awake, Thomas Dolby-Flat Earth, King Crimson-Thrak, Fixx-Reach the Beach, Alison Krauss & Union Station Live, The Cult-Beyond Good and Evil, Andy Summers-Green Chimneys, Bob Marley, Fabulous Thunderbirds-Walk That Walk Talk That Talk, Los Lobos, Suzanne Vega-Solitude Standing and more). Started off without warming the DAC up. Started opening up in about 20 minutes and kept getting better. Lovely soundstage with great instrument placement, very musical, enough detail for me without getting etched. Just a pleasure! Zero fatigue. And that's just getting started. Can't wait to get my Bottlehead amplification into the mix. Also to get EDO applet running on the Touch, and to use foobar on Windows 7 computer. Bottom line: this DAC sounds great already and thank you so much Doc, John S and everyone else who made this possible. Cheers! Jeff
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Anyone like me into the 4th decade of the HiFi hobby will have pieces of kit which are "keepers". My Logic DM101 turntable with Alphason HR100-MCS arm (companies now long gone but early Linn competitors). My ParaSEX power amps (now with MQ outputs). My Foreplay. My Lowther 115s. Now my Bottlehead DAC.
I had been saving for an Eros (my vinyl still has an SS stage). Having missed the first DAC batch through indecision, when the second opportunity came along I had to get out the plastic. This of course affects 3 of my signal sources: TV on the TOSlink, CD on the SP/Diff and last but not least, Volumio running on a Raspberry Pi on the USB.
The Bottlehead DAC has all the high end attributes the press extol but few of us mortals on a regular salary experience. It is both neutral and unfatiguing: characteristics which could make a quick superficial listen leave you with the impression that it sounds "ordinary". Well it isn't. Allied to this natural sound is an impressive ability to resolve musical detail. This is another "keeper". Well done Bottleheads!
Having once run an MC head amp on NiCads, I had to try batteries. Eight NiMH AAs gave me the test I needed. This was followed by eight D cells. How did it sound? Have you driven through the summer rush hour for weeks and then go to clean the inside of your windshield? Its like removing that layer of grime that you didn't even know was there.
Going DIY battery is not for the uninitiated: you need low internal resistance, a sensible battery life, the correct voltage and a charging regime which will not over-voltage the DAC or accidentally feed it with AC. If the Bottlebatt is half the improvement that I am listening to as I type then it is worth every penny (and of course it will at least equal my set-up). Go battery!
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UPDATED POWER SUPPLY
I was curious if a better power supply would improve the BHD so in June 2015 i bought a Teddy Pardon Teddy9/2 - 9V 2A Power Supply which they claim has less noise than a quality linear supply. At the time I didn't expect BH to actually finish the battery supply so soon and thus I bought the Teddy supply.
As a remark I found the standard power supply solution for the BHD to be below standard. Living in Europe BH included a 240/110 volt converter but this has a lot of mechanical hum, it become very hot and after 10-20 hours it shuts down. I expect there is some sort of thermal protection because it just needs to be replugged to run for another 10-20 hours. BH should consider a better solution for a product of this price.
Anyway, with the Teddy supply the BHD have improved in all areas. Background is now more black and maybe because of this dynamics have increased on macro, micro, and nano level. Exemplified with the full crescendo of a big band, the pluck of a string or the hit on a drum rim, and the after shimmer of a cymbal. All in all the BHD with a better PS have a more dynamic and organic presentation.
Compared to my Aqua La Voce NOS DAC the BHD with the TP PS is better in most if not all areas. On some recordings the La Voce sounds slightly more relaxed but I consider this to be because of the now less dynamic. Also, the La Voce can from time to time sound more spacious but I'm afraid it's artificial artifacts from the NOS process surrounding the notes in a cloud of digital dust. I'm not sure about that last part but the spaciousness of the La Voce sounds more alike across different recordings where the BHD plays the space more different on various recordings hence I expect this to be an artificial effect on the La Voce. Whether you like it or not is probably subjective. Price Wise the BHD plus an updated PS is quite near the La Voce making them as direct competitors as you find them.
Now the BHD with an updated PS is the best DAC I have had in my system. I can only speculate if the BH battery pack could take the BHD up another notch compared to the TP PS.
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Interesting power supply. I had the same issues with the 240v converters and give up on them, after a few hours they would cut out and that was that until they cooled down again. I came to the same conclusion that there is a thermal cutout inside them as whenever the case hit 60c they just died. I used my own 100va step down transformer for a while but got fed up with it buzzing away all the time so i built a 9v linear power supply, and as you say it was a dramatic improvement over the supplied brick which is nothing more than a few diodes and a 2200uf cap. Bottlebat is on my wishlist though, maybe santa will bring me one if i'm good :)
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Being relatively new to DAC and BH, hi-fi audio, etc. I have found the BHDAC amazing. It is an investment, but well worth it. In the end, it amounts to if you can hear the difference. To me, it makes appropriate digital audio life-like whether through speaker or headphone, so I can enjoy music as if it were live and in front of me. Just my opinion. To you it may hear/feel entirely different depending on YOU. That is ok because everyone is different. Enjoy it if you have one.
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As a remark I found the standard power supply solution for the BHD to be below standard. Living in Europe BH included a 240/110 volt converter but this has a lot of mechanical hum, it become very hot and after 10-20 hours it shuts down. I expect there is some sort of thermal protection because it just needs to be replugged to run for another 10-20 hours. BH should consider a better solution for a product of this price.
I would comment on this that we initially planned to ship the DAC with an inexpensive switch mode power supply that would work on any line voltage. After that planning, the current linear supply that we use became available, and we were impressed enough with the difference that we made the upgrade despite the cost difference. For our European customers, it came down to either shipping the DAC with the sub-par switch mode power supply, or using the linear supply and purchasing an additional small step-down transformer. We opted for the small step-down transformer, which despite being run very conservatively, appears to overheat in some situations.
It is possible to simply substitute it for another 9-12V switch mode supply to avoid the issue, or to use a different step-down transformer.
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I stumbled upon this opinion thread and like to rectify my latest opinion of two in this thread. The listening I did with the updated power supply did not include a calibration of db level as I did in my first opinion. I just dropped in the BHD and adjusted the db level by ear. After measuring by smart phone db meter I found that I tended to run the BHD 2-3 db higher than my Aqua. After calibrating I again found the Aqua to be more dynamic. Also, the more I listened to the two DACs the more I tended to pick the Aqua over the BHD and now the Aqua is the only one I’m using in my main system where the BHD have it’s place in my secondary system. The impression in my first opinion describes quite well what I experience over time. I guess I’m just a single bit DAC guy even if the BHD is the best attempt of a delta sigma DAC I’ve listen to.