Seduction output caps

mingles · 21588

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Offline mingles

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on: February 16, 2010, 10:11:13 AM
This question has probably been asked before, but I can't seem to find the answer.

The stock output caps for the Seduction are .47 uF. I'd like to use Clarity Cap MR's, but the smallest value they offer is .82 uF. Will that value adversely affect the sound or do I need to stick to .47 uF?

Many thanks for your help.



Offline Grainger49

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Reply #1 on: February 16, 2010, 10:58:11 AM
That should be fine.  I have used 2.2uF output caps because that was the smallest available.

Going to a smaller value than the stock 0.47uF or a lower voltage rating might give problems.

I like to break in a capacitor that will be in the audio path, as this capacitor is, before putting it in the circuit.  I posted that here:

Fast Break In Post
« Last Edit: March 25, 2010, 02:52:04 AM by Grainger49 »



Offline mingles

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Reply #2 on: February 16, 2010, 12:16:54 PM
Grainger, I appreciate your reply. Can you briefly explain how the value of the output cap can have such a wide range? When I asked the manufacturer of my DAC a similar question, he said a larger output cap would add an emphasis to the bass. Is that the same case for the Seduction?

Many thanks!



Offline Grainger49

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Reply #3 on: February 16, 2010, 02:43:59 PM
The value and the resistance (impedance) that the unit feeds forms a high pass filter.  Generally PJ designs for a roll off that hits at a very low frequency, something like 5 Hz, or 3 Hz.  The larger the capacitor value is the lower the frequency starts to roll off.  So Bottlehead chooses a reasonably low frequency.  A larger capacitor passes lower frequencies but everything is flat above the roll off.  None of those frequencies that a larger cap would pass are musical notes.  

Then there is a problem that crops up with really large capacitors, the windings are inductive.  But none of us would be putting this large a capacitor on the Seduction.  

I read sometime just after the release of the Eros that it was designed with a 0.47uF capacitor for the output and the 1.0uF Solen was an upgrade in quality, but not because of the increase in value.  The capacitor they use is already stocked for another unit.

I would have to disagree that an increased output cap, at least in the circuitry I have seen, would emphasize the bass.  Larger caps allow lower notes, in this case noise, to pass.


I hope that explains what you were looking for.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2010, 02:56:24 AM by Grainger49 »



Offline mingles

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Reply #4 on: February 16, 2010, 08:18:14 PM
Thanks Grainger! I appreciate the explanation.



Offline rock4016

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Reply #5 on: March 25, 2010, 02:46:16 AM
Don't forget that your low pass number is the -3 db down point.  So if it's 5hz then you'll still be able to hear the effect higher up.  (presuming your systems gets down to 30hz or so)  A good rule of thumb that I use is x10 low pass for what frequency will be audible or not, so by that rule 2Hz is better than 5.  A friend of mine has modded a seduction and he used 4 uF Rel Cap PPFX caps for output.  Sounds fantastic.



Offline Grainger49

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Reply #6 on: March 25, 2010, 02:58:37 AM
I think that PJ looks for a flat response at 3 Hz or 5 Hz with 3dB down at 0.3/0.5 Hz.



Offline Paul Joppa

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Reply #7 on: March 25, 2010, 09:59:33 AM
No, I usually look for around -3dB at 5Hz. That's -1dB at 10Hz, about -0.1dB at 30Hz. THe exception is the parafeed capacitor, which is sized relative to the plate choke and transformer primary impedance, so as to maintain enough resistive load on the tube to avoid excess distortion, down to the lowest practical frequency.

Paul Joppa


Offline Grainger49

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Reply #8 on: March 25, 2010, 10:47:44 AM
I didn't remember clearly but I knew that the -3dB point was safely low.

Thanks,